Why Jesus Was NOT A Failed Apocalyptic Prophet
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- čas přidán 24. 08. 2024
- Almost every Tuesday at 5pm PST join Mike Winger live as we tackle issues of theology and apologetics.
This video is an analysis of several statements of Jesus which are taken, by some, to mean that Jesus was supposed to return within the first century. I think that you will find a verse by verse study of those passages to be extremely helpful in understanding what Jesus meant by "this generation" and what delay He implied before His second coming.
- Mike
If some Jews believed the abomination of desolation had already taken place, yet Jesus talks about it not having taken place yet, that's not partial fulfillment. That's just contradiction.
Wow ! You definitely have the spiritual gift of teaching. May our Heavenly God and King and Saviour bless you , the ministry He entrusted to you , and your hearers !
Can we populate or pin this comment? I prefer response from someone receptive, as opposed to the actual most populated, which,, which seems to be coming from a skeptic, who seems to be doubly clinging to his or her own interpretation. And it’s making me second-guess myself, TBH, which I don’t like.
@@blindvision4703 no need to second guess. I come from Nepal, was a Hindu and Jesus miraculously healed me. I don't care if anyone in my family believes in Him but I do. Honestly, I did backslide though once I cane to Germany and was busy trying to adjust as I had a massive identity crisis...but now I'm in faith stronger than before and I love the fact that Jesus didn't give up on me. And my new Church is good and the Pastor is very supportive.
@@blindvision4703you say skeptic like it’s a bad thing. If you prefer to be gullible that’s on you, but don’t insult those of us who prefer a bit of reality over wants and desires clouding our rational brains.
If your epistemology allows for illogical, contradictory and clearly non-factual beliefs, then it is a bad epistemology.
This is a complex topic but I do think that the preterist have a case because the key argument that for me overrides all the passages that you've explained to prove your point is that Jesus' message was clearly to the disciples in front of him not to future readers of the Gospels like us, so when he said "this generation" it can't be the unknown generation of the future but the generation of those people he was talking to at that time.
It seems clear especially in Luke that the apostles were under the impression that it would happen within their generation.
@SheepOfChrist818 Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you.There'll be some standing here which shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming into his kingdom. Paul affirmed it too in 1Thessalonians 4: 16,17 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel with the trump of God and the dead in Christ will rise first 17. Then WE which are ALIVE and REMAIN will be caught up togerher with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so shall be with Him forever.
It is clear that the rapture didn't take place during Paul's time because Paul died before it happened, he wasn't lifted in the air while still alive together with the other disciples which he mentioned in the verses. So the big question now is did God the Father changed His heart.
I think you might have misunderstood the position. The idea that "this" generation refers to a future one doesn't depend on the idea that future readers are reading that statement making it for them - indeed that wouldn't make sense as you've pointed out. Mike's position is that Jesus, speaking directly to his disciples, was talking about a future time in which the fig tree buds (the signs beginning to appear, namely the abomination that causes desolation), and the generation of that time when the fig tree bugs would not pass until all the stuff happens. That is to say, the sign won't appear for a while, but once the sign does appear, what I've described to you will happen within the lifetime of the generation present for it's appearance.
@@travisnorton9097 can you reference a specific scripture please?
Also, I'd like to point out that the apostles' impressions weren't always accurate. Multiple times Jesus told them plainly he was going to die, but they still didn't really understand/believe it because it was so counter to their expectations.
@@brysonorosa632 Except that Matthew validates the this generation quote in 16:28 when Jesus said : Trully i tell you, SOME OF YOU STANDING HERE will not taste death before you see the Son of Man come into his kingdom. Paul also affirmed it in 1Timothy 4 :17 And after that WE WHO ARE STILL ALIVE AND REMAIN will be caught up with them in the clouds to join the Lord in the air and so will be with the Lord forever.
It's crazy how simple your solution is for the "this generation" misunderstanding. It never even crossed my mind, like I was very insecure about these verses and when I read about preterism, I started having doubts in my faith. I read many explanations but, this is the most logical and elegant explanation I've heard and yet so simple! It makes sense now. Thank you and I'm glad the Holy Spirit led me here!🙏🏾❤️
Except it doesn’t make sense and contradicts the actual text. It only makes sense if your desire to believe is greater than your desire to seek reality.
Preterism is the most honest way to read our bible; I love it and I’m full of joy at Christ’s finished work…..God bless you in your quest for truth ❤
Thanks passing on this theory Mike!
I just spent a couple of days (literally entire days) researching this topic because in my opinion a false prophecy is a very serious matter. My notes are way too long to fit here, but in a nutshell, I discovered 6 different viewpoints that people hold.
1- Preterist, it was already fulfilled (Frank Turek).
2- The Greek "genea" means "race".
3- It was a conditional prophecy (Inspiring Philosophy).
4- Partial fulfillment.
5- "This generation" is not for the present audience (Mike Winger).
6- Jesus made a false prophecy.
My general conclusion is that the "This generation is not referring to the present audience" theory is the best fit and it is an adequate theory such that I can conclude my investigation. I gave it a B+. I think the main issue with it is that it seems like Jesus's wording choice caused some of the early Christians to believe their generation would see Jesus return. Additionally, its choice of wording causes people in our day to doubt and gives fuel to polemics against Christians, though perhaps some of that can be chalked up to language and cultural barriers. The fact that for all 3 olivet accounts the "this generation" appears in the MIDDLE of the answer rather than the end is probably the strongest evidence that "this generation" refers to the "abomination generation". Jesus's final answer was in the "day/hour is unknown" section at the end of each account where he pretty much just says "stay vigilant because I'm not going to tell you". Typically we'd prefer to hear a number or date over a vague answer like that, but at least he gave some signs for the particular generations that happen to live near the events like the abomination. I also suppose the vague answer does motivate multiple generations to keep watch much more than a definitive chronological answer would have.
The Conditional Prophecy was next on the list, but it has a few problems that I wasn't able to resolve, with one being that Luke doesn't have the "conditional", which is that "the gospel should be preached to all nations". Maybe Luke forgot it? Its biggest problem is that for all of them the verse about the generation uses the words TRUELY, CERTAINLY, and ALL THINGS. Those are some pretty strong words for a conditional prophecy specified to THIS GENERATION. I graded it C.
In some ways the conditional theory can be complementary to the "this generation is the abomination generation" theory as another point of evidence that there will be a delay. An endeavor like preaching the gospel to all nations is likely to take multiple generations and the preaching event occurs before the abomination in the two accounts that do specify the conditional.
As for the other explanations, the were all pretty lacking and two of them were so bad I think I'd go with the false prophecy hypothesis over them. In the end, it's fortunate that this didn't turn out to be a false prophecy.
I listen to your live sreams,they help me to better understand the word of God. I find it refreshing that you tell the truth when there are so many lies our there designed to try and put a wedge between us and the truth of the scriptures. Keep up the good fight Mike, I will be here 3 months from now when you return!
Yes, even when I disagree with him, which isn't often, I don't doubt his integrity or his knowledge.
The triumphal entry of Jesus mounted on a donkey could also be a fulfillment when he said some of you will not taste death before you see the son of man coming in his kingdom.
No, it cannot. The triumphal entry of Jesus to Jerusalem comes first (Matthew 21). The prophecies in the olivet discourse come after (Matthew 24), when Jesus leaves the temple and goes back to the mount of olives.
@@ChumX100 I thought that at first as well, but after more investigation, I realized that @andrewc956 was not talking about the Olivet discourse. All 3 of the Olivet discourse passages use "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened". However, as Mike pointed out in the video, the predictive verse in Matthew 10 is different from the other 3 - it is "you will not finish going through the towns of ISRAEL before the Son of Man comes." (Matthew 1023): So andrewc956 might have been talking about Matthew 10, which according to Mike Winger's theory, was fulfilled already by Jesus following them into Galilee in Matthew 11. I think andrewc956 is just pointing out that an alternative fulfillment could be the arrival on a donkey in Jerusalem, since it came after Matthew 10. That seems like a reasonable explanation to me.
However, andrewc956 used the words "you will not taste death...", and that particular phrasing is in Matthew 16:28, Mark 9:1, and Luke 9:27. I think the general consensus on those verses is that "the kingdom of God" does not refer to the second coming. The "kingdom of God" is already here and it's a spiritual kingdom rather than an earthly one (think of the parable of the mustard seed). In fact, that's a third valid alternative to the Matthew 10 prediction.
Abomination of Desolation:
Luke 21:20 - “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near."
That happened in 70AD
God Bless Brother! 🙏😁🙌
Seems pretty clear what he was speaking of in light of this verse…
The version recorded here in the Gospel of Luke refers to the desolation of Jerusalem foretold in Daniel 9:26-27. This does not mean that Yahshua did not originally explain both, for it is evident that He certainly did, but two of the apostles recorded only one aspect of Yahshua's discourse, while the third concentrated on the other. However both are perfectly legitimate! Yet because Luke's version of the account has a clear fulfillment in history, we shall discuss that first. The version presented by Matthew and Mark shall be discussed in the next part of this presentation.
Luke wrote “20 But when you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, then you know that her desolation has come near. 21 Then those in Judaea must flee into the mountains, and those in her midst must leave the land, and those in the countryside must not enter into her! 22 Because these are the days of vengeance, by which all the things written are to be fulfilled! 23 Woe to those having conceived and to those with sucklings in those days! For there shall be great violence upon the earth, and wrath for this people! 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword and they shall be taken away captive into all nations, and Jerusalem shall be tread upon by the heathens until the times of the heathens should be fulfilled.”
During the Judaean war with Rome, the Roman general Cestius had Jerusalem under siege, and almost took the city, when for no apparent reason he lifted the siege and departed. This is what the historian Josephus records:
Wars of the Judaeans, Book 2: “538 And now it was that a horrible fear seized upon the seditious, insomuch that many of them ran out of the city, as though it were to be taken immediately; but the people upon this took courage, and where the wicked part of the city gave ground, there did they come, in order to open the gates and to admit Cestius as their benefactor, 539 who, had he but continued the siege a little longer, would have certainly taken the city; but it was, I suppose, owing to the aversion God had already at the city and the sanctuary, that he was hindered from putting an end to the war that very day. 540 It then happened that Cestius was not conscious either how the besieged despaired of success, nor how courageous the people were for him; and so he recalled his soldiers from the place, and, by despairing of any expectation of taking it, without having received any disgrace, he retired from the city, without any reason in the world.”
Cestius, having had the upper hand and for no apparent reason withdrawing from Jerusalem, then suffered a great loss, and a great deal of his army, to the pursuing Judaeans while he was moving his army away from the city. After recording this, Josephus then goes on to relate, in Wars of the Judaeans, Book 2: “556 After this calamity had befallen Cestius, many of the most eminent of the Judaeans fled from the city, as from a ship when it was going to sink; Costobarus, therefore, and Saul, who were brothers, together with Philip, the son of Jacimus, who was the commander of King Agrippa's forces, ran away from the city, and went to Cestius.” So while it may have been apparent that the city was spared, many fled contrary to expectation, and some even fled to join themselves to a Roman general who had just suffered a great defeat at the hands of the Judaeans. This is not understood unless one knows what is going on inside the city. Josephus in his account of these events often spoke of the “good” and “bad” parts of the city. He credits a high priest of the time, Ananus, with having uttered these words: “Certainly, it had been good for me to die before I had seen the house of God full of so many abominations, or these sacred places, that ought not to be trodden upon at random, filled with the feet of these blood shedding villains.” Just as Josephus testified, Daniel had prophesied, that “for the overspreading of abominations he [meaning Yahweh] shall make it desolate”. Any Christian in Jerusalem who had the Words of Christ also had his chance to escape the coming carnage. It is therefore highly unlikely that any Christian remained in Jerusalem at this time, or that any Christian even considered himself to be a Judaean at this time, since Paul clearly taught that in accepting Christ, they were to lose their identity as Judaeans, becoming “all one in Christ”.
While Luke 21 verses 20-24 can only really refer to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, the latter part of Luke's record seems to relate not to 70 AD, but with that part of Yahshua's discourse that has to do with the end of the age, where He states, from verse 25, “And there shall be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and upon the earth an affliction by the heathens, the sea and the waves roaring in difficulty, 26 men fainting from fear and the expectation of that coming upon the inhabited earth. For the powers of the heavens shall be shaken! 27 And then they shall see the Son of Man coming in a cloud in the midst of power and much effulgence. 28 And upon the beginning of these things happening, straighten up and raise your heads, since your redemption approaches.”
In Luke we saw the exact historical fulfillment, as recorded by the historian Flavius Josephus, of Christ's words as they are recorded at Luke 21:20-25, concerning the forecast destruction of Jerusalem. Yet it is evident that Christ must have given a longer statement, and that Luke's record of it focused more specifically on what was said about Jerusalem, while the accounts of the discourse recorded by Matthew and Mark relate a more general prophecy.
Matthew 24 15 Therefore when you should see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place he reading must understand 16 then those who are in Judaea must flee into the mountains; 17 he upon the house-top must not go down to take his things from the house, 18 and he in the field must not turn back to take his garment. 19 But woe to those being pregnant and those with infants in those days! 20 And you must pray that your flight should not be in winter nor on the Sabbath. 21 For at that time there shall be great tribulation, such as has not happened from the beginning of Society until now, nor by any means should happen! 22 And unless those days would be shortened, there would not be any flesh saved. But on account of the elect shall those days be shortened.
Mark's record is almost identical:
Mark 13 14 Then when you should see the abomination of desolation standing where it is not proper he reading must understand then those in Judaea must flee into the mountains, 15 he upon the house-top must not go down nor enter in to take anything from his house, 16 and he who is in the field must not turn back to the things behind to take his garment. 17 But woe to those being pregnant and with infants in those days! 18 And you must pray that it would not be winter. 19 For there shall be tribulation in those days of a sort that has not happened such as this from the beginning of the creation which Yahweh had created until now, and shall not happen! 20 And unless Yahweh has shortened the days, not any flesh would be saved! But on account of the elect whom He has chosen, He has shortened the days.
Luke 21 “20 But when you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, then you know that her desolation has come near. 21 Then those in Judaea must flee into the mountains, and those in her midst must leave the land, and those in the countryside must not enter into her! 22 Because these are the days of vengeance, by which all the things written are to be fulfilled! 23 Woe to those having conceived and to those with sucklings in those days! For there shall be great violence upon the earth, and wrath for this people! 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword and they shall be taken away captive into all nations, and Jerusalem shall be tread upon by the heathens until the times of the heathens should be fulfilled. 25 And there shall be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and upon the earth an affliction by the heathens, the sea and the waves roaring in difficulty, 26 men fainting from fear and the expectation of that coming upon the inhabited earth. For the powers of the heavens shall be shaken! 27 And then they shall see the Son of Man coming in a cloud in the midst of power and much effulgence. 28 And upon the beginning of these things happening, straighten up and raise your heads, since your redemption approaches.”
While the words of Luke 21:20-25 fit the circumstances of history in the fall of Jerusalem in the first century perfectly, that does not mean that they are not both applicable and foreboding as to what is happening to the people of God - to True Israel - today. For Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39 and Revelation chapter 20 both draw a clear picture that shows Israel surrounded by her enemies in the last days. But neither of them are talking about the counterfeit jewish state in Palestine. First, we must examine what is the “abomination of desolation”, and then we shall further discuss Jerusalem surrounded by armies..
The “abomination of desolation” spoken of in the records of Matthew and Mark is quite different than the prophesied desolation of Jerusalem in Daniel chapter 9 which was referred to by Luke's record. and the “abomination of desolation” is mentioned in both chapters 11 and 12 of Daniel. I am not going to attempt to interpret Daniel Chapter 11 here, except to say that unlike most commentators, I believe it is a prophecy of the struggle between the two earlier little horns, and the “king of the north” which I am persuaded refers to the imperial papacy and the little horn of Daniel chapter 7, and the “king of the south” which is Mohammedanism and the little horn of Daniel chapter 8.
While the Greek of the New Testament merely says “abomination of desolation”, as does the Greek of most Septuagint manuscripts, the Theodotian version of the Old Testament Greek has a phrase at 11:31 (but not at 12:11 where it agrees with the other LXX manuscripts) which may be rendered “the abomination which makes desolate”, which is how the Masoretic Hebrew is translated in the King James Version and most other editions in both places. Yet there are some editions which translate the Hebrew also as “the abomination of desolation”.
Daniel 11:31 says in the King James Version: “And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.” No matter what one thinks about this prophecy, it is still in Christ’s future, as we see here in Matthew 24:15. Also, the prophecy in Daniel chapter 11 cannot properly be made to fit the period from the Seleucids to Nero, and therefore the abomination that maketh desolate is not the Roman defilement of the temple in the days of Nero, as many commentators have attempted to claim. However reading Daniel Chapter 12 where it also mentions this abomination that maketh desolate may lend us further insight into what it could be referencing.
Daniel 12:1-12: 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. 5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? 7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. [So we see that the times are connected to the seven times of Israel's punishment.] 8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, [This seems only to indicate a forced change of religion, told in terms that Daniel would understand. The word sacrifice was added to the text. The word translated “daily” is rendered also as “continual” throughout the Old Testament, accompanied by a word that means burnt-offering. But here in Daniel chapter 12 and in Daniel chapters 8 and 11 the word stands alone. The translators only assumed that it is used here in connection with an actual sacrifice, but this is not necessarily so.] and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. [There are 1291 years from Mohammed's 622 AD flight from Mecca to the founding of the Federal Reserve in 1913. The Federal Reserve is an abomination which makes the whore of Revelation desolate!] 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. [There are 1335 years from 613 AD to 1948 AD when the artificial imposter Israeli state was officially sanctioned. This is indeed the abomination of desolation! In this period between 1913 and 1948, over 100 million Christians were slain in two world wars, and another 20 or 30 million were killed by the Bolshevik Jews!] 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
The Dome of the Rock was constructed from 688-691 AD, just about 1290 years after Nebuchadnezzar's first invasion of Jerusalem. This is certainly a pagan idol which is an abomination amongst the desolation of the once Holy City. There are just about 1290 years from 622 AD, the year of Mohammed's famous flight from Mecca and the year in which the Muslim calendar begins, to 1913 AD. Islam is surely an “abomination which maketh desolate” and it caused much desolation in Christendom, as it still does. Adam Clark, who wrote his commentary up until about 1831, wants to start counting these times from the rise of Mohammedanism circa 612 AD, from which 1335 comes to 1947 AD.
There are 1335 years from 613 AD to 1948 AD when the artificial imposter Israeli state was officially sanctioned. This is indeed the abomination of desolation! Malachi chapter 1:4-5 says of Edom that “4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever. 5 And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The LORD will be magnified from the border of Israel.” Israel is certainly the abomination of desolation. I understand that this method is not perfect, since I have different anchor dates, but they are quite profound and there are no better events to look at in history for the fulfillment of these things.
One may not understand the connection between Mohammedanism and Judaism, but Mohammedanism is Jewish. There is evidence that Mohammed himself was a Jew, that he had Jews in his company who actually wrote his so-called holy book, which is a blasphemy of the real Word of God, and therefore Mohammedanism is a Jewish invention.
Yeah, because prophecising that a city that was the equivalent of the town bicycle for the Middle East.
Is like me making a prophecy you will have explosive diarrhea after a meal if I know you constantly eat at Chipotle 🤢
I like your gracious spirit and heart for the truth, brother Mike, but I have to disagree with this one. 1) Jesus made it very evident what he meant by 'this generation' in his indictment of the Jewish nation in Matthew 23:33-36; and this is just before the Olivet Discourse in chapter 24. 1st century Jerusalem would receive the judgment of all the righteous blood that had been shed since the time of Adam.......a judgment THAT CANNOT BE REPEATED. It has happened! 2) There WAS 'an abomination of desolation' that took place back then; when 'the Rebellion' began, the 'man of lawlessness' took over the temple and desecrated it. His name was Eleazar, captain of the temple guard, who had messianic pretensions. 3) The 'coming of the Son of Man with the clouds of heaven' is from Daniel 7; and it pictures a heavenly event in the Divine assembly in the spiritual dimension. IT IS NOT AN EARTHLY EVENT. Just some food for thought. Thanks for your teaching.
What is your source for eliezer
@@robertedwards909 Primarily Josephus, (The Jewish War); Yosippon; and the Jewish Encyclopedia online
@Ναζωραῖος I understand the points you raised. The key issue though is the 1st century context and primary theme of the teaching of Jesus and His apostles, which had to do with the end of the Old Covenant age and the inauguration of a new order of the New Covenant age. From 30 - 70 AD was a unique period of transition between these two ages during which Jesus as the new Moses and Joshua would lead His people into the heavenly promised land. The whole book of Hebrews is about this, with the focus ultimately on the unseen heavenly spiritual dimension of the New Jerusalem.
Interestlingly enough, there isn't any explicit text in the NT that states that Christ is going to come back to earth and set up a kingdom on this earth. As far as the later church fathers are concerned, the final authority that I accept is the writings of the apostles and prophets of the NT scriptures. I don't believe that every prophecy has to be verified as being fulfilled by later generations. It is enough for me that those in the apostolic generation could 'see the Day approaching' (Heb. 10:25) and knew that it was near and soon to take place (Rev. 22:6,10,12). Nevertheless, this doesn't rule out a final consummation event in the future (2 Peter 3:7-13). Peace and blessings.
PS To clarify, I agree with the Title of this video, but not all of the exegetical explanations!! :-) Peace
Ναζωραῖος brilliant
The phrase “the kingdom of heaven is within you” is found in Luke 17:20-21 in the New Testament of the Bible. In this passage, Jesus was asked by some Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come. Jesus answered that God’s kingdom was coming, but not in a way that they would be able to see with their eyes. He said that people would not say, “Look, here it is!” or “There it is!” because God’s kingdom is within you.
This is what puts me in a weird hybrid preterist/amillenialist viewpoint. Honestly I don't have a clue but I trust the Word, I trust God, and I'm eagerly awaiting the return of King Jesus
I wonder why Jesus said “pray your flight not be on the Sabbath”. If we’re not under the law then why would that matter?
It's important to notate that the word Jesus uses for generation "genea" is often used to describe a group of people at large not in a fixed point in time, like Gen x or Gen Z.
Actually it's more like a line of descent, what's commonly referred to as a "race". The "gene" in genea is where we get the word genes. ie those with the same genes. For example, in Mat 23:29-36 Jesus was speaking to "scribes and Pharisees", and their "fathers" (ie ancestors), and declares them responsible for all the shed blood of the righteous - beginning with Cain's murder of Abel to a murder that occurred in his time, and he ended the discourse with the statement that "all these things shall come upon this generation (genea)".
The genea mentioned throughout the discourse is Cain and his descendants up to the time the words were spoken. Furthermore, he gives clues that he's referencing Genesis 3:15 and the "enmity" predicted between Adam's descendants via Seth, and the "Serpent"s descendants via Cain. He even calls those he was speaking to "serpents, offspring of vipers" (a type of serpent) in v33, linking them with the serpent of Genesis 3.
Most people make the mistake of assuming everyone living in the "promised land", and therefore everyone Jesus spoke to was an Israelite, a descendant of Jacob, but those who've actually studied the OT, and Israelite history know that the entire 10 northern tribes were carried away captive to Assyria over 700 years before Jesus was born, and that they never returned. That a large portion of the 2 southern tribes (Judah and Benjamin) were likewise carried away captive by the Assyrians around the same time. That the Assyrians had imported people of 5 nations into Samaria to take the place of the 10 tribes. (2Ki 17:18-24) That the remnant of Judah and Benjamin that remained was again depleted by the Babylonian captivity a century later. And that the entire nation of Edom (Idumea) had been conquered in 125 BC and forcibly converted to the remnant Israelites' culture and way of life, and brought en masse into Judaea. (Josephus, Antiquities 13.9.1) Not to mention all the Canaanites allowed to remain in the land when the 12 tribes initially entered (Jdg 1), and the Canaanitish descendants of Judah via Shelah (Deut 23:2), via the Canaanite woman he took before Tamar. (the Shelanites)
And that while the original Canaanites didn't descend from Cain, the scriptural record reveals that Cain's descendants, the Kenites, took up residence in the land of Canaan, along with the Genesis 6 hybrid offspring, from whom Goliath and his brothers descended, and were eventually absorbed by, and incorporated into the Canaanite population.
Wow, 5 years and its is still a great video mike.
Just watched this video for the third time, I have learned so much more this time than I did the first two times. Thanks for all you do Mike Winger
Mike brother I love you, genuinely love you. I’m so thankful for you.
I've encountered people with this very objection you raised.
I'm so glad you elaborated on the answer to that objection.
*Jesus is Lord*
Jesus is dead. Let's stick to the facts.
@@lepidoptera9337 Aw look, a crying groomer... 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
KEEP CRYING 😭😭😭
Absolutely amazing talk. GOD Bless you
My personal opinion on all of this stuff is that I am not sure. I am open to all of it right now as I am learning, and always open to having my mind changed with evidence. I don't let it take me off of what is important which is my relationship with God and the responsibilities he has put in my life. What I don't like is when people focus so much on end times, that it takes away from their callings in their lives. I live like I will be leaving a long legacy in the world in how I react with those around me and like I'm leaving the world at any moment in my relationship with God.
Yes the end times shouldnt be the focus and the obsession , Jesus in Acts 1 said to his disciples when they were obsessed about when he will restore the kingdom of Israel , he told them that its none of their business to know the times that the Father has appointed, but instead, they should go and witness to all the nations, bringing them back to their duty, yea its important to study the end times and what the bible says about it , but if its the only thing that i think about it whenever i preach or study scriptures or when am driving and looking around , then one took it further than it should be.
Mike, with all due respect, please read “The Parousia” by JS Russell, written in the late 1800’s. It is a good work to consider. I appreciate your teaching. Blessings to you!
Yes! I would add Biblical Hermeneutics by Milton Terry and The Christ Has Come by Williams Urmy
Right on.
good work as always. may God keep replenishing your effort.
I think that it is so great that on different doctrines such as eschatology that you’re willing to listen and learn but on the more serious doctrines you stay strong and won’t budge.
Mike, you mention that Matthew 16:28 does not mention "holy angels" and therefore does not refer to Jesus' second coming. However, the preceding verse (Matt 16:27) says "with his angels" and "he shall reward every man according to his works." This clearly refers to the second coming and it seems that in verse 28 Jesus makes it clear that it will happen in the lifetime of his immediate audience, the disciples. You state that Matt 16:28 does seem to refer to the second coming, if taken out of context. But, it seems that you took the verse out of context and "force" it to refer to the transfiguration.
Matthew 16:27 and 16:28 clearly does not refer to the transfiguration! Jesus did NOT judge everybody by their works at the Transfiguration, so the Transfiguration does not satisfy what was written in Matthew 16:27.
‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death.’
Thanks for linking the video Mike! Really enjoy your answers!
Did Jesus really expect most of His followers to die within a week after making that statement in Matt. 16:28?
To the viewer who asked about why would a temple have to be built:We as christians know that we are the temple of tbe Holy Spirit, but Israel is still blinded in part. They do not accept Jesus as their Messiah. So they want to be able to worship Yahweh the way they know how, by building the temple again and performing the sacrifices and oblations according to the law of Moses.
Which would be a fresh rejection of Jesus Christ. The sacrifices and temple would be an abomination and desolate respectively. How God deals with their blindness is a mystery to me but I don't think it will be through the reinstatement of the old covenant.
But Revelation wasn't written until about 96 AD. I feel when Jesus said that some would not taste death. John. Peter and James DID see Him come along with Moses and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration; John saw it in more detail in Revelation. Maybe I am wrong but it seems obvious to me. Also He foretold of the destruction of the Temple and never said it had anything to do with the second advent. GOD BLESS YOU ALL.
Infinite-respectfully, why are you writing papers when you say things like “there wasn’t persecution of Christians until after 100AD?” Normally, I would just chalk this up to crazy internet foolishness but I’m genuinely curious-where you’re coming from. Did you mean to say something else?
Read the book Jesus Failed and Finished in Disaster, it is based on the law of attraction and the bible.
@@IsacBorgert The law of attraction.... LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
*breathhheeessss innnnnnnn*
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHHHAHAAHAHAHAJJAJAJAHAJAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
I believe that Jesus was answering more than one question. Matthew 24:34, "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." I believe that Jesus, before that statement answers when the Temple would be destroyed. After this, He speaks of His literal second coming.
Spot on! Jesus provides the time element for the first event (temple destruction) but then shifts to speak about His second coming ("but of that day") and for this he says that nobody knows that timing (day/hour).
Mike, the H. Spirit in u might hv just saved me. Thanks for dat great podcast.
Rome was not the first sack of the Temple. Nor was it prophesied. Nebuchadnezzar's destruction of the Temple is what was prophesied.
Also John saw the Lord Jesus return in glory in his Revelation vision.
Jesus Christ was more than a Prophet, he's not Muhammad either, he died on the cross, he is the son of God, and the MESSIAH, HE'S JEHOVAH JIRAH,
1)He never failed because he was God with us! 2) Everything that he said would happen before the Anti-Christ makes his appearance has happened. He cannot lie or make false promises. Nothing else in prophecy needs to happen before the rapture of the Church takes place and the Tribulation period begins. Jesus is coming! Are you ready? If you are on this thread and you do not know Jesus as your personal savior, you can know him today. Pray this prayer with me. "Lord Jesus; I know that your return is nye and even at the door. Forgive my sins and come into my heart, and I will follow you always. In your name Amen. If you prayed that prayer you are God's precious child. Tell someone what you have done. They may want to do the same. John 13:16 -17. God is Love 1 John 04:08
You said that generation, but Jesus said THIS generation, every time especially in Matthew Jesus uses the sentence this generation, he is speaking about the generation he is talking to.
Geno Reformed speaking to this generation is not always About the generation to whom he is talking
@@leonardhunt7241 Why not?
@@piano9433 the generation Jesus Christ was discussing was the generation which would see him returning, not the present generation would witness his return. The context is important.
@@leonardhunt7241 Do you think the same applies to texts like 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 John 2:18?
@@piano9433 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is speaking to a future generation, yes 👍 I agree.
1st John 2:18 is from the last days beginning from the ascension of Jesus into heaven until he returns Acts 2 in the last days God will pour out his spirit upon all flesh Joel 2.
So everything fitting perfectly with him being an apocalyptic prophet doesn't count because over an hour of "nuh-uhhs" and wishful thinking? How... _convincing._ Also, very interesting how you claim Jesus didn't say the end was coming soon because he didn't mention his angels in Matthew 16;28 -- when mentioning those is literally how the very previous verse 16;27 ends🤔
You keep mentioning a third temple, nowhere in scripture is a third temple found.
Hi Mike! Good presentation. I mostly see eye to eye with you on this topic (and probably most other as well.) I like your other videos too. Keep up the good work in the power and wisdom of Christ. As far as the «this generation»-issue; consider this portion in Luke:
«Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. And they will say to you, ‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them. For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man WILL BE IN HIS DAY. BUT FIRST He must suffer many things and be rejected BY THIS GENERATION.» Luke 17:22-25 (NKJV.)
Notice that Jesus seems to contrast the time of His second coming with His then current generation. First He talks about things related to His second coming, but then He contrasts that by saying that He FIRST must suffer many things and be rejected by «this generation» (the then current.)
So when the Lord Jesus talks about «this generation» that will witness the signs leading up to His return in the so-called Olivet Discourse, that cannot be talking about His then current generation. I believe this is a confirmation of what you say.
Greetings in Christ, Trond Hanshus
If the Greek uses a word like "outos" then it will actually be indicated in the grammar so we know what is pointing to specifically. I'm not there in my Greek yet but look forward to exploring it in a year or two when I'm fluent enough.
In the communist era there was a joke about the Radio Erevan repling to the listeners. Radio Erevan was a Soviet Propaganda Radio Channel.
The joke was like this:
"A listener is asking: Is it true that Puskin was in fact a gambler, a womenizer, and a drunk?
The reply was: Yes you are right, but we appreciate him also for some other things ..."
"This" generation could mean "that generation" my return will happen within one generation... Remember, he says many wars will occur before the armies surround jerusalem and the desolation of the temple... I don't think there is a huge time gap between the prophecies because he said "all this" referring to at least the chuck of prophecy closest to the "all this" statement will occur in "this generation" this meaning in the generation
Your comment is very insightful and helpful. I was reading Luke's rendition of this, chapter 21. And I notice he writes in verse 12 "But BEFORE all this," (the previous verses, 10 & 11, about nation rising against nation, earthquakes, famines and pestilences) "they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons, and you will be brought before kings and governors for my name's sake." So all that persecution the apostles and disciples faced had to occur BEFORE earthquakes, pestilences, wars, etc. The martyrdom of Paul is estimated at 66 AD, after he wrote 2 Timothy. With 4 years left for historians to write about major events like earthquakes, wars, and whatnot, there is nothing. There is simply not enough time for all those things to occur. And Jude's epistle and John's gospel were STILL not written yet, which were written AFTER the destruction of Jerusalem which happened between 70-71 AD.
The current era is a MUCH better reflection of what Jesus is describing, though not perfectly, as I can't think of Christians being delivered up in Jewish synagogues.
Just thought I'd share my insight and help sharpen iron as you helped sharpen my iron.
Do you mean "this generation" as in "the generation of", as in the generation of all of those things Jesus listed?
This is where both futurists and preterists get it wrong. Jesus never said "within a generation", did he?
@@peppr115 I never said that ther were multiple generations, did I? Think about it. The word "generation" has two different applications. I doesn't always apply to a lifespan, and when speaking about "this generation" Jesus actually used the term to refer to a generation that exceeds the confines of a lifespan. Despite this everyone assumes a lifespan. Why?
@@peppr115 Thanks, I get what you're saying, and believe me, I'm well aware of problems like that, but it's very important to distinguish between what the disciples thought and what they actually knew. Let me ask you this, do think that God sometimes keeps his servants in the dark concerning prophetic fulfilment? This might surprise you but one of Jesus closes disciples himself claimed that he actually does. If you read 1 peter 1:10-12 you can see that even the prophets were kept from fully understanding what they were writing.
For that reason I don't find it inconceivable that the disciples were just as unaware of the exact time Jesus would return as we are today. After all, one of the last things Jesus said to them was that they were not to know about times and dates. All they could do at that time was do their best to keep themselves and the rest of the church awake and aware of the fact that Jesus would return like a thief in the night.
Finally, please read Matthew 23:33-36. There Jesus outlines exactly what he means by "this generation". It is a generation that has existed since the time of Cain and Abel. And take note, while directly addressing that "generation" he talks about Zechariah, saying to them that "you" killed him. How could he be talking about a lifespan when Zechariah lived about 500 years before any of them were born?
Jesus said "there be some standing here who will not taste death..." . John in Revelation saw this.
What occured to me about this--and I'm just going by an English word, no Greek, and I do not know whether this is a valid observation.
How many years in a "generation of vipers"? No years implied in that; it's a _brood_ of vipers. No number of years are intended. There is an "adulterous generation"--how many years in that? That one is more likely to be time-related, a generation like we think of it.
But maybe "this generation" that will not pass away, is the whole _race_ of the Jews? _This people_ won't pass away?
Maybe; I'm actually not thinking that it's as likely an explanation as I used to.
Very good points. Thank you for a fresh look at these verses.
Great video, watching it 5 years later and even just the beginning is such as good explanation. The part in Matthew when he says truly some will not taste death before i come into my kingdon is referring to the transfiguration or the ascension. Not the second coming. But he also is talking about what the second coming is not.
Thank you 🙏😊!
After having a very hard time trying to wrestle with these passages I think Dale Allison’s view is correct as much as I really don’t like that m.
In Revelations it is said that the abomination of desolation is a statue, resembling the first beast, made by man, as commanded by the earth beast (second beast), and was given life and the ability to speak. Some pretty scary stuff.
Like the first sentient ai.
There’s over 350 direct and indirect scriptures in the New Testament that Christs return was imminent in the 1st century- here are just a couple of those scriptures written to the 1st century Church by John.
1 John 2:28 “ And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears WE may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming.
It is easy to see that Johns words would have lead 1st century Christian’s to believe THEY would live to see Jesus’ return!
The “WE” is John and those to whom He was writing -and the sense of his words was “WE” ( Them-Then and There) would be alive at His coming.”
1 John 3:2 “ Beloved, we are God’s children now; what we will be has not yet been revealed. What we do know is this: when he is revealed, we will be like him, for we will see him as he is.
The same thing apply’s to this verse and more so.
John really lead people to feel THEY would be alive when Jesus came.”
In this verse John uses “WE” five times and closed with “for we shall see Him as He is.
The promise to “see” Jesus when He returned was a promise to those who would be living at His return.
The Apostle John surely would not have wrote these 2 scriptures to the 1st century Church if he had believed it was going to be thousands of years before his Master and Lord returned.
Well John literally seen these things before he tasted death (the book of Revelation)
He didn't, though. Not the full fulfillment.
John of Patmos wasn't a contemporary of Jesus.
Great video! The comment by the viewer regarding not a stone left standing and the whaling wall is a good one 😁
Hey Mike if you wanna know for sure if it’s pre or post hit me up because I’ve studied Jesus and the rapture exclusively for 20 years now. Just a heads up it’s not pre!
I personally feel in the Mathew 24 passage Jesus is saying they would live to see the signs and birth pains (which answered their first question) and then addresses the Second Coming (their second question) by saying that not even He himself knows the precise time of His coming. I agree that his many parables about not getting caught asleep indicate some time between the sign and the actual coming. That does imply that they would live to see the end days, but we are given no indication of how long the end days will last. "Near" and "at the gates" are relative terms. I strongly believe that Mathew 16:28 is talking about the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy in 7:13-14 which was fulfilled in Mathew 28:18-20. I know the rebuttal of that will be Mathew 16:27, but I believe the context allows for the two verses to be talking about two different events.
Do you mean to reference Daniel 7:13-14 ?
@@joshuaayitevie1235 Yes, I will make that more clear. Thanks.
@@rockytopbritt
The context of Matthew 16:28 IS the previous verse. It’s unthinkable Jesus would say “the son of man will come and judge everyone”, and then immediately, “some standing here will see the son of man come”, and mean two separate events.
@@legron121 The overall context is actually not about the second coming. Its about the crucifixion. So I disagree it's unthinkable. However if you read the previous verse closely it says He will come into the glory of His Father and his holy angels and THEN will judge everyone according to his works. So even in the previous verse "coming in the Glory of the Father" might be better understood as the accession/ the fulfillment of Daniel 7.
@@rockytopbritt
No, Matthew 16:27 is talking about the same events as Matthew 25:31-46, in which the son of man "comes" and _then_ he judges all the people according to their works. In fact, the "kingdom" spoken of in the next verse (16:28) is clearly talking about the same "kingdom" mentioned in Matthew 25:34.
If this isn't clear enough, then I have to ask: What _would_ be clear enough?
At 12:23 Mike Winger says he thinks a part of the Olivet Discourse (Mark 13 : 5 - 13) is about a delay that the disciples of Jesus will experience.
What does the Bible say about there being a delay?
The author of the letter to Hebrews wrote in the first century :
Hebrews 10 : 37 "For, *“In just a little while, he who is coming will come and will not delay.”*
Hmm
When was this
“Maintain justice
and do what is right,
for my salvation is close at hand
and my righteousness will soon be revealed.
@@victorcritelli5790 The salvation that was close at hand was addressed to the Jews in exile in Babylon, and the salvation was the deliverance which they were about to experience from their captivity in Babylon. They were saved by God from their slavery to the Babylonians just like God saved Israel from their slavery to the Egyptians.
Hey Mike, I thought you did a video on when the rapture is, pre trib, mid trib, etc...but I can't seem to find it.
Mike, speaking of the events and signs that must happen before Jesus' Second Return, the scripture that harold the last thing before end comes which wasn't mentioned is
Matthew 24:14: ―And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
When will be that gospel preached and who will do it since to do this enormous work worldwide it needs lots of time, people and resources.
At this point, JWs claim them to be the ones who are doing this preaching and they do it over 100 years.
I really want to know who will do that preaching before the end comes.
It's interesting to note an angel also preaches the gospel to all the nations before the end mentioned in Revelation
Colossians 1:23. Paul says that the gospel has already been preached in all the earth
This is the problem with apologists, they start with the idea that we have to explain these verses somehow as Mike says. If this was science you could not get away with trying to force the data to fit what you believe. Instead you follow the data. Let's face it Mikes whole world collapses if the plain meaning of the text is believed. By the way, the early Christians including Paul believed that Jesus was returning in their lifetime as well. So apparently they took did not understand context. Makes you wonder what kind of communicator Jesus was. Since the time of Jesus there have been dozens of dates certain set and expected by thousands upon thousands of Christians. If you can't rely on the plain text here then why rely on the plain text somewhere else.
Why is it significant that in Rev.6:18 judgments came in sets of seven?
“Babylon the great” (Revelation 17:5) was the recipient of these judgments (Rev. 16:19; 18:2-8). Babylon was also known as “the great harlot” (Rev. 17:1) and the “great city” (Rev. 17:18), which was first identified as the place “where also our Lord was crucified” (Rev. 11:8), i.e, Jerusalem. Babylon was responsible for the bloodshed of the saints, prophets, and apostles (Rev. 16:4-7, 17:6, 18:20, 18:24). This is the same bloodshed which Jesus said the religious leaders of Israel would be held responsible and judged for in His own generation (Matthew 23:29-36).
In Deuteronomy 32:20, 29 God spoke of “the latter end” of Israel (see also Deut. 31:29), when there would be “a perverse and crooked generation…children in whom is no faith” (Deut. 32:5, 20; see also Matthew 17:17, Luke 18:8, and Philippians 2:14-15). Upon that generation He would “avenge the blood of His servants” (Deut. 32:43). In Leviticus 26, God repeatedly warned that Israel would one day receive seven-fold judgments:
“And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins” (Lev. 26:18).
“Then, if you walk contrary to Me, and are not willing to obey Me, I will bring on you seven times more plagues, according to your sins” (Lev. 26:21).
“And if by these things you are not reformed by Me, but walk contrary to Me, then I also will walk contrary to you, and I will punish you yet seven times for your sins” (Lev. 26:23-24).
“And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me, then I will also walk contrary to you in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins” (Lev. 26:27-28)
Interestingly, when Josephus described the spoils of war that the Romans took from Jerusalem in 70 AD, he wrote, “…These lamps were in number seven, and represented the dignity of the number seven among the Jews” (Wars 7.5.5).
Why did the judgments in the Book of Revelation come in the form of seven seals, seven trumpets, and seven bowls? These were the seven-fold plagues that God promised would come upon Israel in her latter days:
“…I will bring on you seven times more plagues, according to your sins” (Leviticus 26:21).
“…Come out of her, My people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues… Therefore her plagues will come in one day…” (Revelation 18:4, 8).
These plagues were poured out during the Jewish-Roman War of 66-73 AD in fulfillment of what God promised in Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28, 32. The seven seal, trumpet, and bowl judgments of the Book of Revelation have nothing to do with our future and they were never intended for the entire planet. They were for the final generation of Israel, the crooked and perverse generation of Jesus’ own day. The apostles, prophets, and all of heaven rejoiced when this was accomplished (Revelation 18:20).
Correct. That "prophesy" in Isaiah, was about Isaiah's child, as a sign, that Judah would not be slaughtered by the northern kingdom.
ZERO prophesy concerning Jesus.
Hey Mike, I know this is an old video so you might not see this but here goes. At around 1:01:20 you make the argument that in Matthew 16:28 Jesus doesn't use "with his holy angels" and the screen cuts of the verses before where it says "with his angels" in verse 27. So we're you just mistaken and missed that, or where you just not showing so that verse to support your argument? How does this change you theology? I noticed this in a video by Paulogia so I didn't catch this but they did, did you ever answer to this?
First Jewish-Roman War (66-73 CE).
How many years is that?🤔
As a proponent of "partial fulfillment,'" do you believe that the prophecies of the death, burial, resurrection and enthronement of Jesus have only been partially fulfilled?
So watching this... I'm pretty sure I saw this before, but it came up again, and watching this again:
Here's the thing I noticed, around 25:00...
All of the events being discussed right here are in the context of in Judea. The entire context of the passage clearly says its what's happening in Judea. While I would agree that I don't think everything in the New Testament is fulfilled (I do believe everything, or most everything, in the Old Testament is fulfilled), to me it seems like this passage was fulfilled with 70 AD... And yes, it is the worse thing to happen in Judea since the founding of Judea because in all past situations, they were merely occupied. Here they're being wiped out completely and those that survive are scattered. If this event wasn't cut short, then none of them would have survived. This also goes in line with Daniel's prophecy about the 70th week. It could have been a roughly 7 year campaign, with the second half starting with the destruction of the temple and the rest driving everyone out.
Now, whether Matthew here is talking about 70 AD or not, I'm pretty sure the 70th week of Daniel absolutely IS. The context in Daniel doesn't work if it hasn't been fulfilled yet.
Another aspect of this: when it mentions the "shortening the days", it does seem to imply that the world isn't about to end right here, which to me indicates this can't be talking about the final tribulation. But it could be a reflection of the one mentioned in Revelation.
Or maybe you could stop the magical thinking.
Love Steve Gregg :). Also, regarding the great tribulation, It’s clearly local with regard to Judea. And it was a massive holocaust even if only 600,00 people died at Jerusalem like Tacitus says rather than the 1M reported by Josephus. But even this don’t take into consideration all those died in the cities in the eastern 1/4 of the Roman Empire.
Just in Alexandria 50,000 Jews were killed by the Romans. It’s also relevant that the first exile was only 70 years. This tribulation or exile would last for over 1800 years (and beyond in a spiritual sense). So there is no reason to reduce it to hyperbole. It was the greatest tribulation any nation has ever suffered and still survived.
Correction: i didn’t read verse 27 closely in context. This verse is likely not talking about the ascension after reading it in context after Zachary pointed out verse 27.
Not to mention that if Matthew 16:24-28, specifically verse 28, does mean Yeshua Messiah’s glorious ascension and not glorious second coming, then it makes even more sense for Him to elaborate that only “some of those here standing who no nor shall taste of death until anyhow they have seen the Son the of man coming in the Kingdom of Him.” (this is the reading from the Greek with Interlinear Bible on Biblehub). Why? Because quite literally only some of them would. Only 11 of them would witness the ascension because one of them, Judas Iscariot, would commit suicide.
Peace
Matthew 16:27-28 is not the ascension. Jesus did not come in his kingdom with glory and render to each man according to their works at the Ascension like v. 27 says
Zachary Oh! I see now. I guess I didn’t read verse 27 closely for context before saying that. Thanks for the correction! I much appreciate it.
An assumption is being made here that 27 and 28 is talking about the same event, but I don't think that is the case. Both verses are in the context of picking up your cross and following Jesus. Verse 28 appears to be referencing Daniel 7:13-14 in which the Son of Man appears in the clouds before the Ancient of Days (God the Father) and is given dominion over the Earth. Then there is Mathew 28:18-19 in which Jesus says "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit". So I personally believe your original assertion was correct and 28 is about the ascension while 27 is about Judgment Day.
God Bless
It is now January 2020 . Are you going to look at the comments at this time ?
The temple mount is NOT the real site of the temple.
Because he was the Christ, and the number of prophesies he fulfilled is unbelievable
In Rev.22:12 Jesus DIRECTLY QUOTES His own recorded words by Matthew 16:27-28 He would return in judgment while some of those standing there were still alive!
Some 35 years later in Rev.Jesus repeats His promise of coming in judgment ..
THIS TIME HE SAYS; BEHOLD I COME QUICKLY AND MY REWARD IS WITH ME TO REWARD EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORK!
Rev.22:12 dispels Matthew 16:27-28 being a reference to the Transfiguration or Pentecost
Coming in the glory of the Father with His Angels with rewards is a direct reference to the Harvest/Gen.Resurrection(Mt.13:39&49)at the end of the Old Covenant age (1Cor.10:11).
The text makes it clear it can not extend beyond the lifetime of “some” standing there listening to Christ!
Lets analyze Herculeus next.
I read Brian Godawa view. He believes Jesus came 70 AD.
Hey Mike, putting the topic into a question like that has risen opposition to you by some people. It seems to be shocking to them. Usually, people do not watch videos completely, and others just read the titles to the videos. I just wonder what you think about that.
You make a good point. The reason I put it into a question like that is to draw the attention of the Bible skeptics who I hope to reach. I hadn't anticipated that someone would judge what my position was based on the title being in the form of a question. Perhaps I'll rethink that a bit and try it differently. Thanks for your thoughts.
@@MikeWinger then debate Bart Ehrman.... Its common knowledge that NT scholars know that Jesus and cousin John the baptist were both apocolyptic prophets....
Tack you so very much😊🙏! Learned SO MUCH?
I think He was talking about the generation that was alive until His second coming. For ex another generation was that from Adam to Noah.
Mike,
If you would oblige, I would love to join you in a friendly debate/discussion on these issues. I’m a former Christian and agnostic and I do view Jesus as a failed apocalyptic prophet. However, I find your arguments very interesting and I’d be happy to engage with you. Please let me know if you’re at all interested.
Paul "all things are alagory"
Jesus "I speak in parables"
For some of us he has already come! Maybe you are reading the scriptures wrong? 🤷
"Distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves" = climate change XD
In regards to Revelation, the manuscript doesn't say that these signs mean the world will end soon. In fact, it says just the opposite. The end of the world won't come for a very long time, but it would be a mercy compared to all the hardships we have left to endure..
At 42....is it the gentiles or the Jews in Israel that you had to hide your Bible from?
I humbly challenge anyone to bring me a scripture that proves a pretrib. I will fairly warn you though, if you choose to take up this challenge know that I had a near death experience and went to heaven and cried like a baby on the shoulder of Jesus because he told me I had to come back. I had been born and bred to believe pretrib through being a southern Baptist. But once I met Jesus he hit delete on my beliefs and put in the Non man made teachings. Any pretrib teaching if put in proper context actually teaches the opposite. Even Kirk Cameron the left behind actor no longer believes in a pretrib. The people in China that are dying for their faith do you think they agree with you. They would probably laugh at you.
It's so surprising to me how much these prophesies look like the American idea of the end times if you just add the words "in America" to them.
Me: These already happened and are happening all over the world
American: "What do you mean, I don't have to forsake christ to buy and sell"
Hi Mike have your heard Steve Gregg's? I find his teachings about eschatology plausible. But I still don't give my buy in unless I heard contrasting views.
What if the reason “this generation will not pass away” is because John is still alive. Now before you say the Bible says they were wrong in saying that look again, it doesn’t say that, it says they were wrong to believe he would never die - he will die in the future because he is one of the 2 witnesses he even tells us that in Revelation if you look again more closely. The angel tells John he will prophesy again one day in front of kings and all peoples and THAT is yet to be fulfilled
This is the teaching I was looking for, I'm just starting the video, but I pray that this man doesn't use his own theology to rotate the scripture.
I know Mike doesn't do that, for the most part, but man if there is one theological debate that requires man to forget their own theology to represent scripture by itself is hard to find.
Appreciate your wonderful and kind demeanor Pastor-
In Matthew 16:28 - Jesus Himself Defined All Terms Related to the Timing of His Return as within A Generation!
Some standing here will not die til they see My Coming-Jesus AD 29.
Greek Lexicographer J.H .Thayer defined “this generation in Mt.24:34 “ as “a group of people living at the same time.
Isn’t this what Jesus referred to in Mt.16:27-28?
The rest of the NT harmonizes with Jesus very words in Mt.16:27-28 and Mt.24:34.
His Second Coming was:
“NEAR”Mt.24:33.
“NOW IS” 2 Cor.2:6.
“IN A LTTLE WHILE” Heb.10:37.
“SOON” Rev.22:12.
“AT HAND” Jms 5:8.
“THIS AGE” Mt.13:40.
“QUICKLY” Rev.22:6-22:20.
“SHORTLY” Rev.1:3 -
“THIS GENERATION” Mt.23:36-Mt.24:34.
These words and their definitions are consistently used in the NT and they NEVER communicate something that will take place some 2000 years from the time they were pinned!
I guess he thinks re reading the text is the explanation...i just don't get it...
How do you not "spiritualize" the entire book of Hebrews regarding this issue? Or Galatians 4:21-31? Looking for a physical fulfillment of the Priesthood and Temple in Jerusalem flies in the face of Paul's rebukes to the Judaizers. How could a new Temple become desolate? That would be its starting position. The Bible repeatedly tells us that God's Temple is not one made with man's hands. It also tells us in Hebrews that we have a new and better High Priest offering a new and better sacrifice. Offering up anything as prescribed by the Torah would be a rejection of Jesus Christ and His cross.
Most of the Jews pushing for the reinstatement are not Torah following Karaites but are Talmudists and Kabbalists who despise the Judaism of the Tanahk.
You said feel free to disagree, so I am disagreeing. Lol. Mark 13:30 - Verily I say to you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
What generation? Genesis 5:1 - This is the book of the generations of Adam.
WE are the generation of Adam.
ajwspjs2 I think you've got it.
Generation = genera = family. I trace my generation through Jesus Christ to Abraham.
Matthew 12:34 KJV
O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Jesus isn't talking about a generational cohort, He's talking about a multigenerational grouping that has been operating in the behaviors He condemns throughout His ministry.
Verily I say to you, so He was talking to them who heared His voice ,
well youre blind of course it happen , read the bible ,
what didnt happen ??? i lost your point
This is the hardest accusation against Christ, but truth be told If Jesus is not the Messiah, and not the Son of God as seen in Daniel 7 then there will be no Messiah.
I’m going down with the ship because Jesus was and is good! :) ✝️
ABBA have mercy on us! ✡️
Regardless bump Atheism.
Atheism is a dead end, literally. 😂
Mikes interpretation of this generation is ridiculous. He just makes sh.. up.
I think you do a great job on Mark 13....thanks!
Love your perspective and hedging your bets and being open to discussion. I also like that you don't come off as argumentative. You caused me to have some new questions based on your video, that's good though. If you don't answer I can imagine one of the viewers will.
Is what you call the second coming a good thing or a bad thing?
If bad then all the warnings and fleeing and be ready makes sense.
But if also the rapture then who is around to flee etc. and those left to flee would never read the Bible.
If good then why would Jesus warn us about a 2nd coming thousands of years in the future that is a good thing? Who is the warning to if the second coming is good?
And if the Temple is not a “true temple” (or something like that you said) why would Jesus care about it and tell us about it?
Thanks
Still searching
Hey Mike I'd like to know your opinion on Mark 13:24-27 and Matthew 24:29-31.0 Do you believe these verses describe the rapture or some other event? If you do believe they're talking about the rapture what do you think about their connection to Revelation 6:12-17? I'm not trying to corner you into any particular position on the rapture I'm just curious about your view on these passages. Great teaching by the way!
Could the Abomination of Desolation be the D.O.T.R? It's standing where it ought nought and they don't allow burnt offerings without the Jewish temple. If the D.O.T.R was built in 685-691 AD, now consider that with the 360 day/yr calendar and subtract 2023 based on a 360 day/yr calendar, we are now at year 1322 - 1357 (blessed are those who come to 1335 days) . Just a thought.
Have you considered that these things are conditional? For example Jeremiah 18, Luke 13 The Parable of the Barren Fig Tree. The apostles continued to believe and teach that the second coming of Christ was going to be very soon but contingent on Israel accepting Jesus as the messiah. For instance the early church sold all their possessions and lived as communists and Acts 2:16-17, 3:19-25.
Very sad that this was four years ago and I'm not able to attend that Jehovah's Witness event
Christianity is a religion based upon prophetic failure, that’s why Jews find it ridiculous believing that he was the messiah. He didn’t accomplish anything..
Well said...that the third temple will be built as indicated by scripture BUT in rejection of Jesus Christ.
Where in scripture does it talk about a third temple being built? I hear people say that all the time but then I get crickets when I ask this question…
On John 21:22-23.
In the last chapter of John there is a “gold nugget”that speaks to us about WHEN Jesus was going return.
Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
Here’s the point!
If Jesus was planning on coming back in our day in the 21st century then what foolish statement He made about John.
He would now be 2000 yrs old and still waiting on the Lord to come makes no sense!
But it does make perfect sense and fits perfectly with what Jesus had told His disciples that He would be returning while some of His followers were still living.
Matthew 16:28” Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
This rumor(verse 23) reinforces the fact that the disciples were looking for Jesus to return in their lifetime.
They believed that because that’s what the Lord taught them.
Jesus promised that He would be returning in the generation of the early church Mt.24:3 &34 -and that He would come back before all of His disciples died.
Do u hold the preterist view
@@sonoftheking1977Yes ,I hold to the TRUTH of the Bible -
Does s this ex-JW conference welcome regular Christians? I have a heart for JW's and Mormons.
It does welcome those who have a heart for JWs. Here’s the web site.
wnfj-v2.com
I left 5 comments, so I've been censored. I must be onto to something. I need to find a way to get what I've learned out....
Yes I know Jesus is coming back but the Son of Man did come with His kingdom. Yes He’s coming at the end of the age too. When He resurrected that was His coronation as King of Kings. Everything Jesus said is what has been happening since those days. It’s happened just as He said and at the rate at which He gave. The kingdom was as small as a mustard seed but now all the different animals live in its branches. Just saying.
Thanks for your hard work in putting out these videos...I'm a little disappointed that you read all the way through both Mark and Luke's narratives and then skimmed through Matthew. I was looking forward to hearing your POV on Jesus saying to pray the tribulation doesn't occur on the Sabbath. Why would he say that if his sacrifice did away with OT laws including Sabbath observance? Matthew is the only gospel that has that particular wording so I thought surely you would highlight that part to give insight on. Oh well. Maybe another video.