The Speedrun That KILLED Pokemon Red
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- čas přidán 27. 01. 2023
- Pokemon Red Any% Glitchless might be beaten... FOREVER.
The movement is too optimized at this point. I expect at most 10-20 more seconds can be saved, maybe a minute with TAS. People will continue competing for a while, but it would take inhuman luck in addition to perfect execution to beat this time. I wouldn't be surprised if this record stands forever.
the new WR:
• Pokemon Red Any% Glitc...
pokeguy's commentary:
www.twitch.tv/videos/17180501...
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outro music:
• Salon (Trap Remix) - P... - Hry
The most insane time save is to just gamble on the 30% horn drill instead of setting up X Accuracy. It's insanely unlikely to ever work out but it *is* an option
How many horndrills do you need to complete the game? Lets say one lucky horn drill saves you about 5 seconds then you could use this strat on the first few ones early in the game and just reset until you're lucky enough to safe enough time to continue the run normally
@@noda420 i think they mean one fight only
this could save like a minute or two maybe
I don’t think Horn Drill is used for any fights less than 3 Pokémon (because you have Thrash AND the added time cost of using the XAcc isn’t worth it), so you’re making a 2.7% (or even worse) gamble.
That’s like an old SDA segmented run of Paper Mario where the runner spent a week fighting Bowser until he had a run where every attack missed
This run was so insane. Beating a 2 year standing record is achievement enough, but by an entire minute? I imagine this record standing for a very long time.
Summoning Salt in two years: "It was a great run, and they thought it would stand for a long time... Until two weeks later, when Matt Turk got _this_ run."
@@amberhernandez lol you know summoning salt is going to make a great updated speedrun history on this game
If there is no big new strat discovery, which is unlikely given how fully analyzed this game is, this will stay the final record of Red/Blue.
Just so everyone knows, the TAS for Red Any% Glitchless uses a completely different strategy which is completely unviable for a human (you could technically pull it off, but you're probably more likely to get struck by lightning 1000 times). It manipulates max rolls, critical hits, no encounters, Horn Drill hitting without X-Accuracy, among other crazy things.
The current fastest TAS is SIXTEEN minutes faster than Pokeguy's time: czcams.com/video/dGhfnTwn7UY/video.html
And to clarify, TAS is a tool-assisted speedrun, so it is obviously not legal for a leaderboard. It's extremely rare for a human to match a TAS perfectly in any game.
Super Mario Bros. is where humans can (possibly) be as fast as a TAS playing the game.
@@joao_felipe Yup, that was the one game I was thinking of where humans are currently extremely close to the TAS (0.7 seconds in warps or Any% currently)
Dragster 😎 but in seriousness, as a game increases in complexity the gap between TAS and human best times increases. For “simpler” games like Dragster or OG Mario, they’re equal or close. For something like Pokémon or super Mario 64 though it’s incredibly unlikely they will ever converge
@@joao_felipe Uh, you know you are wrong, don't you?
Super Mario Bros has 2 TAS's, but for the TAS that is 'humanly viable', humans have matched each individual section of the TAS to the frame rule leading up to 8-4. The closest anyone has gotten to stitching it all together in a single run is short by a frame rule or 2. So it's possible to match it, just hasnt happen yet as far as I am aware
TAS in pokemon is kinda bullshit because button inputs determine RNG.
Speedrunners in viridian forest: no encounters whatsoever
Me in viridian forest: encounters every 2 steps
as someone who has no idea about pokemon speedrunning, this was well presented and entertaining. Kept it interesting without forcing a documentary style vid. Great video!
Hmm, based on this video I would say it is probably *beatable* but one of those things like we see in other speedgames with stupid precise luck where you need to be able to string the luck together and every major improvement makes the standard that much higher
Yep. This run puts red in the category of games where the only gains remaining are in doing a million runs and waiting for the god RNG.
Yeah there's just so much rng to account for in pokemon games. Pokeguy got really lucky with this run on top of his execution and risky strats. It's going to be very unlikely for anyone to beat this any time soon unless a new strat is developed.
@@Natibe_ Or if someone finds a better route than the current one.
Red bar distorts Pokemon cries, shortens attack sounds, and shortens level up sequences. Awesome run
I mean they always could start doing itemless speedruns. I hear those are kinda fun :P Great vid btw!
yooo tyty! means a lot coming from the gen 1 master himself
We always assume speedrunning is done for something... but it's never the end. It's always just the beginning.
Love to see up and coming speedrun content creators! You got me with a short and this was my very first video clicking on your channel. Well done and can't wait to watch your whole back catalogue
so happy I witnessed it live, I even told people who don't care about speedrunning that he beat the record by a whole minute and the universal reaction was "holy shit"
That's insane that a new WR was even possible
Man this even made media news and I totally missed it until the legend ackotaq has a full breakdown for us, what a guy
The viridian low encounter rate is caused by the fact tiles in the forest without encounters have a different sprite so it's possible to cross large sections of it without risking an encounter at all
It's specifically because the localized Red and Blue (Yellow fixed it and I don't think Red and Green had) check the bottom left quadrant of the tile to determine if the tile should have encounters, rather than the bottom right.
It's the same reason the Old Man glitch works due to the same problem on the coast.
I did that on red today expecting encounters everywhere but I got 1 weedle & 2 kakunas
This is sick bro! You should make more content like this, you did a great job on this dude
Hey man just found your channel with this vid and I have to say your content is very good. Short, concise and entertaining. Keep up the good work!
This was a really cool video. I used to be very into pokemon speedruns. It's crazy that a time this fast got set.
I'll throw some of your other videos in my work playlist for next week.
Keep making videos like this! Your writing and editing are tight. You get straight to the point!
You actually skipped the last common run killer. There is a trainer in Giovanni's gym that has a Machoke that can crit and kill with boosted crit rate you while you set up an X Accuracy. Great video on an amazing run though.
Damn! That would suck ass!!
How is the crit rate boosted? Focus energy in Gen 1 is broken and reduces crit rate.
@@robertwright8844 probably he meant that Machoke knows Karate Chop which is a move with naturally high-crit ratio
these videos are super good quality and informative, i love these keep up the good work!
Dude you're crazy underrated i love your videos
appreciate it fam :)
Great video! The narrative you construct is easy to follow and interesting.
this dude had his record broken, so for 2 years he sat there and spun the RNG wheel in an attempt to get the stars to align. they finally did.
Thank you for the breakdown and analysis of this run.
Nice video, I like the casual presentation 👍
Literally all of these strats have been known since the early 2000's.
Hopefully this isn't a dream situation where it comes out he cheated somehow because this is a pretty good achievement.
Just watched a video on MinecrAvenger today and I had the same thought lol
the "nice" are sus
@study it's definitely a lot.
Pokeguy has been speedrunning pokemon for an extremely long time. I highly doubt he would throw away the name he built like that and if he did, he's not dumb enough to stage it to be an entire minute faster. It would be too obvious.
@LSky that's just his personality and how he is in every stream I've seen of him. He's a pretty monotone, low emotion dude
Dude, great video. Also, I love the Ape Escape background music. Brings back memories.
appreciate it man! and so glad to know there’s still ape escape fans out there haha
Gotta love the speed running community… all the insanity we get to see from those dedicated grinders
Mad props to anybody who can stand running this, it's my all time favorite game but that red bar sound is just so obnoxious. Cool video
You dont have to play with sound on ;)
I feel like during the Viridian forest segment, you should have specified you used footage from MandJTV reacting to a different speedrun of this game, seeing as that would help credit him & make the footage feel less arbitrary
Always awesome to hear about a category getting killed!
The ape escape 3 shop music just before the end is great!
This was wonderfully edited. If it was you, kudos. If it was someone else, tell them they did a killer job.
Came here the second I saw you posted that the WR got demolished, I can't wait
The category is only dead if you consider speedrunning as anything but a race to improve yourself. You can still solidify your skills without a record to strive for
"It doesn't matter if you'll never win the record, the most important thing about a competitive scene is to have fun and not be competitive."
@@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917 its competing against yourself rofl
I bet you chase day 1 WR just because you care more about a title than self improvement.
@@DkKobaADV So, which is it? Are you supposed to be competitive or not?
Honestly, I don't think you have an actual opinion, you're just saying whatever you think will get likes.
@@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917 post your speedrun username
That person literally agreed with you and you still started a fight with them, bro you're delusional.
Wow I did not realize this only had 1.2k views. Great video + commenting for the algorithm
Interesting analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
I do wonder.... How long until runs start having to match the TAS?
never
Hm, you'd need to RNG abuse the entire game to match the TAS. That's 90 minutes of frame perfect inputs. Sounds tough!
@@Showsni I just feel like WR runs are getting more & more impractical for humans to achieve with the RNG requirements.
And then eventually ot becomes wasting much time in life for a little chance to get wr, like a rate of 1 in a thousand years to get perfect lucky
One helluva video production is great
love the ape escape music!
This reminds me of silence from ratchet and clank up your arsenal. The N.A record at the time (2013ish) was around 1 hour 35 minutes. Speedrunner and owner of said record was Xem92. He went looking for other runs but in different languages and found Silence. Silence had a run of 38 minutes, cutting off a full hour of time.
The ambulance is doing its job finally...
This is gonna become a game of recognising where the TAS tools can be replicated and who can push those manips the furtest
Viridian Forest can be manipulated from the Nidoran manip up through the first attack by weedle. Even if you fail "extended" most of the grass tiles in Viridian Forest can't actually give encounters.
As for why he cut through the grass in that one spot: it's faster by a couple seconds even if not manipulated, as long as you don't get an encounter, and it's only like one or two more grass tiles.
Crit on Hypno would be another time save
This man really put ape escape 3 music and thought we wouldn't notice.
GREAT VID!
It physically possible, but close to statistically impossible without some new tech
No run is ever truly unbeatable. It’ll kill the category a little while, but not forever.
this run will hopefully spark a bunch of new exploits/strats!
@@ackoladeTV That’d be awesome! Times like this are when the community really starts to get creative, so it’ll be fun to see!
very doubtful, this game has been blown open so many times it barely looks like a game anymore@@worldsboss
@@keepitsecret-dl1pr well, they just now found a way to credits warp in FR/LG after 19 years so really, anything's possible
hell, new stuff gets discovered in old games all the time
I wouldn't say unbeatable, I bet this legend named pokeguy is gonna get a even better time
To this this though, this game impresses me man to be made in such a way because it’s luck and the way the odds work who really knows when or if the true fastest possible time will be achieved.
nitpick from 3:09 onwards: It's well known that the grass patches with a flower in the bottom right do not spawn encounters. Walking through Viridian Forest without any setup is a lot less risky than your memey editing suggests. If Viridian Forest was an encounter hell like Mount Moon, there would be a setup to get through it savely (props for mentioning the RNG manip trough Mount Moon, though)
A few minor mistakes to point out:
4:35 - Surge is equally likely to use Sonic Boom or Tackle (and technically X-Speed, but it'll use either of the two other moves the turn after)
5:05 - You don't necessarily stall on Cubone. Depending on the HP, you might stall on Slowpoke instead
5:45 - That was by far not the first potential run killer. Both Bridge and Boat Rival's Pidgeotto can Sand Attack which makes both fights very likely to die as well as Misty being a major general run killer
8:05 - That Hypno is the last potential run killer in the Silph Bar section, but not in the run. Especially the trainer before Giovanni and Agatha can really screw you over
9:30 - One strat which Pokeguy didn't mention is something called Yolo Lorelei where you pray for a turn 1 Rest and deposit everything but Nido (which you usually don't do, you keep your bird to swap in to make this fight save by abusing Loreleis AI) which saves ~17 seconds
Overall well made video tho!
hey thanks for the added context! yeah after watching this run it inspired me to look more in detail of some other stuff including yolo lorelei - RBY AI in general is super fascinating, might make a vid on that in the future lol
Ape escape 3 music so gooooooood.
Your short brought me to your video
If there's one thing we should have all learned by now in the world of speedrunning, when people say a category is dead, it's really only just beginning.
Wooo Great for him :D also I never knew it was this precise wow o
It's so weird how Gamefreak introduced the the starter abilities that grant them an extra 1.5x stab boost at
All I can say is I am so glad to hear Ape Escape music! Haha
Time to start taking every possibly risk and get that time even lower!
Props to him! Go for Gold. You'll never be sorry
Good use of music in this video.
fantastic video :)
And to think, if that rocket right after the rival had the good AI, this run wouldn't even be possible bc cubone would use bone club 100% of the time
you could literally say that for any of the things that went right for the speedrunner...
Someone will beat this eventually. They always do. Only time will tell if it will be a week or a decade.
love the MandJTV cameo
would have been nice if you explained what silphbar was out of the gate instea of just dragging it down for over half the video
I knew Pokeguy is the chosen one of Gen1 runs. Before him id never thought this category will be dead one day.
I think without a big new strat discovery, which is unlikely, this will stay the final record of Red/Blue.
Also shoutout to AmoebaUK who helped Pokeguy to push himself into going for Silph Bar. First Pokeguy told that he is going to play it save and skip it. But AmoebaUK in chat was like "Do It!" 😁
People have been claiming a given integer number of minutes is unbeatable for at least a decade, but they keep being proven wrong. The category might, however, not have another WR for ages. If you look at the history of speedrunning any one game (Pokémon or otherwise), it can be like punctuated equilibrium.
someone will get it down lmao it's never over
Pokemon Red/Blue Any% Glitchless is a category that was dead on arrival. The game's code is such a horrendous mess that it's impossible not to encounter some kind of glitch.
From what I can tell, red-bar itself is considered a glitch. Then there's also the fact that the opening cutscene kills a True Glitchless run immediate by using the wrong cry.
If he was up 1:30 using the same strats as WR before taking the risky strat, then how can he finish by only a minute and people think the record is impossible to beat? It looks like there's still at least 30 seconds up for grabs.
MandJTV's random appearance made me laugh so hard
People said blue yourself was dead, but skilloz still got the god glider strats. Red will survive.
Since he was so ahead, he could have technically bought a revive before the Koga fight, no?
I don't know if it's just me, but it looks like the video and audio are not synced on your face cam. Very nice video though!
Unless something new gets discovered Red/Blue is dead.
Haven’t watched the vid yet but I thought low Hp was better because of the music gonna watch and see if I’m right
I wonder how many runs have been lost to a gen 1 miss
Can't wait for the Karl Jobst sequel in a few months
Solid beauty products shelf
Lookin like some Dream luck iunno
Jrose11 beats the game with mewtwo in under 2 hours.
This guy: hold my beer
Time for people to start running the nidoqueen% meme category
This record will probably last for years, but I don't feel comfortable asserting that a record in a game as popular as this will stand forever.
There are really only a few times that it would be fair to say a record will last forever:
- short ILs, especially if they are timed using an in-game timer which only records time to the nearest second, leaving enough leeway in some instances for humans to match the TAS time (eg a bunch of Goldeneye levels)
- games or game modes which are so simple and short that humans can match TASes frame-for-frame (some Atari games reach this level of optimisation)
- games where a patch removes a major glitch and makes it impossible for new runners to compete fairly against the pre-patch world record (this recently happened to Splatoon 3 for example, so now the leaderboards are split into pre- and post-patch records)
hope they don't patch this 25 year old gameboy game
@@loulou3676 To be fair it deserves it
if you actually watched the run you'd realise 1:43 is indeed possible as he missed 1 blizzard during the elite four
I didn't get what silph bar is 🤔
Lmao I was not expecting to see Don wobbie on a pokemon video
Is this going to be another Dream situation with that encounter luck?
Interesting that theres a number of encounters where the speedrunner needs to avoid the AI using a specific attack. If a speedrunner romhacked the attack out so the AI simply cannot use it, would anyone watching even be able to know?
Why would the cpu use poison moves on a poison Pokemon? Can someone break that down for me, as someone uninitiated to red speed runs?
trainer AI in RBY is pretty simple - basically the only rule most have is to not use a move if it gives a status the opponent already has (IE, if my charmander is paralyzed, the AI won’t use thunder wave). other than that, trainers use moves randomly, with some exceptions - here’s a link if you wanna learn more: wiki.pokemonspeedruns.com/index.php/Pokémon_Red/Blue/Yellow_Trainer_AI
hope that helps!
deedoo deedoo deedoo deedoo deedoo deedoo deedoo deedoo deedoo deedoo
You're so based for using ape escape soundtrack
Fanbase: waiting for summoning salt to make a video of this. Skeptical fanbase: Waiting for karl jobst to make a cheater exposed video of this.
i learned from summoning salt to NEVER say a run is unbeatable
Well, speedrunning it may be dead, but there is a lot more to Pokemon Red than speedrunning... probably isn't even a game that was designed for speedruns, but people will speedrun anything. Probably some people will be content with just matching the times.
"Any % glitchless" *proceeds to abuse a glitch in where having a sound prevents other sounds from playing* :v
How is it possible to know for sure that someone isn't using a modified rom that, say, has no encounters in some areas or something like that?
if you actually followed the pokemon gen 1 speedrunning scene you'd know this was completely legit and abided by all the rules set down in the category
There are anti cheating tools available to moderators on games like this that have been picked apart by people with a ton of knowledge about how game code works in these games. If someone tries to cheat they're going to get banned and blacklisted from the community.
no one ever will beat that speed run
no one ever will beat that speed run
No one will ever beat that speed run
no one ever will beat that speed run
no one ever will beat that speed run
Ah yes gen 1... Good times with the most glitchy game in the world
I'm the only one who felt that the thumbnail and title of the video changed several times?