I think people are consumed with the ninja fantasy and Sun Tzu doesn't equate to black robed assassins , anime or mortal kombat characters. As you yourself have said Antony the fundamentals to understanding pretty much anything about Japanese warfare as it actually happened is through getting a better understanding of Sun Tzu and his art of war. As for your videos you can count on my continued support, your stuff is second to none; and I wish people would appreciate the time and effort you put into our education
I bought the new "The Art of War" book revised by Antony Cummins, where he applies Sun SZU teachings for the modern world. It's an awesome book, a must have for the modern ninja!
Meaning when Bujunkan identifies with Koga,they identify with something historical that was legendary in ability and gives them credibility(even if they have no true connection to Koga)
@CactusHeart79 To elaborate I was just saying it's off topic for his channel, so the majority of people who sub for the real history of shinobi probably didn't watch it as it's not direct shinobi history related. I honestly didn't watch it all myself. My reason for not watching is because I got 2 copies of The Art of War when I was around 14 years old, and I have read it cover to cover probably over 20 times, so I'm sick of it because I know it so well.
Here's the thing though. Sun Tzu IS directly related to ninja. Obviously, he wasn't a ninja himself, but Ninjutsu is directly related to his work and can't be understood without understanding the art of war. ere's a simple proof. Last chapter in the art of war is about use of spies (5 types of spies etc.) and that chapter, almost to the letter was copied in one of the ninja manuals (I believe it was shoninki but it might have been bansenshukai).
So from that understanding the modern Versions closest to the Ninja in Japan of the Edo period are Security guards and especially Nightguards. In the Sengoku Period it would be .Military comando Special Forces sas, navy seals, ksk, French foreign league, Recon, Sog, green barets,. Private military officer and Bodyguards.
Ninja are not about looking cool. Those who try to look cool, are not ninja. Real ninja do not like attention. How do they recruit then? Decoys. They will be watching you, long before you are aware of them, as is what happened to me. They are very good at what they do. Godspeed!
Sean askew in book hidden lineage details and shows the line of soke hatsumia to the survivng toda clan most iga and koka clan were killed in the bushin war of japan
nomad terry I would like someone to send me a copy of that book. I have a long list of books i need. That is low down because of no actual documents connecting to their school. Find someone to donate me a copy please.
I've been looking into about ninjutsu and I mostly watch Anthony cummins and Steven Nojiri. I wanted to know if someone could give the other guy name that Anthony cummins mentioned in his video?
NIce Mr Cummins iga an koka yes were the best but your right there other clan out there that but some then there scroll leather been lost to man or burned or stolen thumb up
Antony, do you have audiobooks on amazon as well or only hard copy. Because i remember you talking about a book 2-3 years ago on youtube. But idont remeber if it was your account or someone else i saw it on.
Haha, whenever I entertain the subject of "Ninja" nobody talks about, I'm often reminded of Fuma's Rappa. Though in all fairness, I could totally be wrong, though everything I've come across in my research suggests that they were more like... For lack of a better term, "Storm Troopers." Where they get behind enemy lines and just have a field day, mucking up their ranks.
I find it interesting that Tagamatsu and those in Tokakure Ryu/Bujunkan identify with Koga…Is it possible that Tagamatsu used the Koga name to increase his credibility for his martial art?
Whew. I didn't hear anything about Koga deriving from Iga at all. Maybe the opposite? I thought the were correlated somehow because they lived near by.
Antony, it's me, "Vick Názquez". We're currently talking about this video in the ol' group. I thought I'd offer a theory on the matter... ...what if Iga and Koka never had ninjutsu before the 1620s, and were only known as the "best shinobi" post-1620s because they worked for the Shogunate??? Kind of like how the Yagyu Shinkage ryu and Ono-ha Itto ryu were known as the "best sword styles" because they trained the Shogun. What say you?
Yes, Turnbull and Nojiri did leave seeds of doubt in my head, but the flower really bloomed when I realized that in every pre-Edo period account of Iga mono warfare, siege warfare is what they excelled at, not spying.
Why don't you ever mention Ennogyoja? He was pretty big in the development and training of guerrilla warfare in Japan. I think he was generally based at ominasan.
No he wasn't. He was just a sage that trekked mountains, so the yamabushi considered him a spiritual founder of shugendo, and because of shugendo clinging onto him, he eventually got lumped in together with ninjutsu.
Antony Cummins yes but it is well known that he was a Yamabushi using guerilla tactics and his memorial statues can be found on ominesan and at negoroji temple just outside Takamatsu with a detailed summary of his life.
How can he be a yamabushi if he predates Shugendo by at least five centuries? It's like saying Yoshitsune was a shinobi because he once disguised himself as a yamabushi to avoid being detected by his enemies. Yoshitsune may have certainly been an inspiration for shinobi, but he himself definitely wasn't one.
@@alittlepuertoricanboy1993 I'm pretty sure that in Japan he is considered to be the origin of Shugendo also its generally understood in japan that Ninjas are a myth. Its like saying that the CIA or MI5 are modern day ninjas. Or the SAS or Navy Seals. It just doesn't work like that. If ninja theory is correct then in 400 years we'll have SAS schools. Mind you.... That would be pretty bad ass.My great great grand children might be able to get a black belt in SAS and then some guy will come along and say well its not all real I have the true SAS scrolls and all those other people dont understand the real CIA and MI5. Its nonsense. they were nothing more than a bunch of people who were paid the kill and spy on people. Just like how the samurai were nothing more than a olden time Black Water or Executive Outcomes or military grunts who have been brainwashed by sophisticated training and ideologies to kill people for king and country as apart of a larger game of petty oligarchs trying to make more money.
Wow there is never new things under the sun. Look at ’muricka today. You say your Seal or Delta to get privet work. Say me from Sweden whit no operator skills.
John Lewis You are wrong. It is Koka not Koga. I happen to know this because i have been their many times and have even published pictures of the train stain name.
That awkward moment when you realize you should just keep your mouth shut about things you've only read about and never experienced. Or places you've only heard about and never actually visited. History you've claimed to know but haven't actually studied.
I think people are consumed with the ninja fantasy and Sun Tzu doesn't equate to black robed assassins , anime or mortal kombat characters. As you yourself have said Antony the fundamentals to understanding pretty much anything about Japanese warfare as it actually happened is through getting a better understanding of Sun Tzu and his art of war. As for your videos you can count on my continued support, your stuff is second to none; and I wish people would appreciate the time and effort you put into our education
When you can bring up the French in a discussion on IGA & Ko(ge)KE ninjas you really are a well thought man of books
I really enjoy the in-depth study's on the history of ninjutsu and different skill sets. ✴️
Thank you for the excellent and interesting video. Also, Kimura - sensei impression is awesome!
Excellent video.
Both wonderfully educational (true to type, love it), and also delightfully British in delivery.
Identifying as Koga in the Bujunkan schools seems to have a mystical idea about it
I bought the new "The Art of War" book revised by Antony Cummins, where he applies Sun SZU teachings for the modern world. It's an awesome book, a must have for the modern ninja!
100% im got it as well from Amazon
Meaning when Bujunkan identifies with Koga,they identify with something historical that was legendary in ability and gives them credibility(even if they have no true connection to Koga)
chapter 13 of sun tsus art of war mnetion incediaries assaination spying and infultraing. sounds like ninja to me.
First time I heard of Iga and Koga was from a side story of Naoki Urasawa's manga.
I was actually wondering about this.
I just bought that book last week hadn't started reading it yet cause I'm in the middle of reading Musashi
Sun Tzu wasn't a ninja so they didn't watch lol.
@CactusHeart79 To elaborate I was just saying it's off topic for his channel, so the majority of people who sub for the real history of shinobi probably didn't watch it as it's not direct shinobi history related. I honestly didn't watch it all myself. My reason for not watching is because I got 2 copies of The Art of War when I was around 14 years old, and I have read it cover to cover probably over 20 times, so I'm sick of it because I know it so well.
Here's the thing though. Sun Tzu IS directly related to ninja. Obviously, he wasn't a ninja himself, but Ninjutsu is directly related to his work and can't be understood without understanding the art of war. ere's a simple proof. Last chapter in the art of war is about use of spies (5 types of spies etc.) and that chapter, almost to the letter was copied in one of the ninja manuals (I believe it was shoninki but it might have been bansenshukai).
Last true koka line was soke fujita seiko of wada ha clan ge let his ninjutsu clan style die with him only a little did he reveal if it
So from that understanding the modern Versions closest to the Ninja in Japan of the Edo period are Security guards and especially Nightguards.
In the Sengoku Period it would be .Military comando Special Forces sas, navy seals, ksk, French foreign league, Recon, Sog, green barets,. Private military officer and Bodyguards.
Ninja are not about looking cool. Those who try to look cool, are not ninja. Real ninja do not like attention.
How do they recruit then? Decoys. They will be watching you, long before you are aware of them, as is what happened to me. They are very good at what they do.
Godspeed!
So, you were “recruited” by a Ninja clan(?) - That’s Hilarious!!!
Sean askew in book hidden lineage details and shows the line of soke hatsumia to the survivng toda clan most iga and koka clan were killed in the bushin war of japan
nomad terry I would like someone to send me a copy of that book. I have a long list of books i need. That is low down because of no actual documents connecting to their school. Find someone to donate me a copy please.
👌🏼
Are these modern ninjas myths? YES
I've been looking into about ninjutsu and I mostly watch Anthony cummins and Steven Nojiri. I wanted to know if someone could give the other guy name that Anthony cummins mentioned in his video?
NIce Mr Cummins iga an koka yes were the best but your right there other clan out there that but some then there scroll leather been lost to man or burned or stolen thumb up
Back at it huh?
If i wanted to read every single book you have that includes ninjutsu... In wich order should i read them so i can get the most out of it?
You don't have to, because none of them are exactly connected aside from being Japanese to English translated ninjutsu manuals.
Samurai and ninja
Ninja skills
Iga and Koka ninjutsu
In search of the ninja.
Book of ninja
Book of samurai
@@AntonyCummins thank you, i will try to read them in that order then ❤️
Nice👍
Send a link for the book.
Daniel Palmqvist they are all on amazon. It depends on which country you are in. Go to your amazon and they will be there :)
Antony, do you have audiobooks on amazon as well or only hard copy. Because i remember you talking about a book 2-3 years ago on youtube. But idont remeber if it was your account or someone else i saw it on.
Orally transmited or for further information
On the options menu, press Down, Up, Left, Left, A, Right, Down
Haha, whenever I entertain the subject of "Ninja" nobody talks about, I'm often reminded of Fuma's Rappa. Though in all fairness, I could totally be wrong, though everything I've come across in my research suggests that they were more like... For lack of a better term, "Storm Troopers." Where they get behind enemy lines and just have a field day, mucking up their ranks.
I find it interesting that Tagamatsu and those in Tokakure Ryu/Bujunkan identify with Koga…Is it possible that Tagamatsu used the Koga name to increase his credibility for his martial art?
Probably
What was the video you recommended at the end of this video ?
How to think like sun Tzu on my channel
Whew. I didn't hear anything about Koga deriving from Iga at all. Maybe the opposite? I thought the were correlated somehow because they lived near by.
Antony, it's me, "Vick Názquez". We're currently talking about this video in the ol' group. I thought I'd offer a theory on the matter...
...what if Iga and Koka never had ninjutsu before the 1620s, and were only known as the "best shinobi" post-1620s because they worked for the Shogunate??? Kind of like how the Yagyu Shinkage ryu and Ono-ha Itto ryu were known as the "best sword styles" because they trained the Shogun. What say you?
Yes, Turnbull and Nojiri did leave seeds of doubt in my head, but the flower really bloomed when I realized that in every pre-Edo period account of Iga mono warfare, siege warfare is what they excelled at, not spying.
Professor Turnbull and Mr Nojiri dislikes the video! (Only two dislikes!)
Here is the book: Iga and Koka Ninja Skills www.amazon.de/dp/075095664X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_8ZonEbQTH4H04
Why don't you ever mention Ennogyoja? He was pretty big in the development and training of guerrilla warfare in Japan. I think he was generally based at ominasan.
No he wasn't. He was just a sage that trekked mountains, so the yamabushi considered him a spiritual founder of shugendo, and because of shugendo clinging onto him, he eventually got lumped in together with ninjutsu.
He seems to be added to the ninja mix in the 20th century. No leads on him yet
Antony Cummins yes but it is well known that he was a Yamabushi using guerilla tactics and his memorial statues can be found on ominesan and at negoroji temple just outside Takamatsu with a detailed summary of his life.
How can he be a yamabushi if he predates Shugendo by at least five centuries? It's like saying Yoshitsune was a shinobi because he once disguised himself as a yamabushi to avoid being detected by his enemies. Yoshitsune may have certainly been an inspiration for shinobi, but he himself definitely wasn't one.
@@alittlepuertoricanboy1993 I'm pretty sure that in Japan he is considered to be the origin of Shugendo also its generally understood in japan that Ninjas are a myth. Its like saying that the CIA or MI5 are modern day ninjas. Or the SAS or Navy Seals. It just doesn't work like that. If ninja theory is correct then in 400 years we'll have SAS schools. Mind you.... That would be pretty bad ass.My great great grand children might be able to get a black belt in SAS and then some guy will come along and say well its not all real I have the true SAS scrolls and all those other people dont understand the real CIA and MI5. Its nonsense. they were nothing more than a bunch of people who were paid the kill and spy on people. Just like how the samurai were nothing more than a olden time Black Water or Executive Outcomes or military grunts who have been brainwashed by sophisticated training and ideologies to kill people for king and country as apart of a larger game of petty oligarchs trying to make more money.
I imagine that the Iga did not have cola that was as good the kokas.
I think one of the Kokas, I think his name was Mo, travelled to the states and made his way into a Beach Boys song.
Why are the koka ninja so often referred to as "koga" instead? Is it some kind of mistranslation or mistake from modern times?
K becomes a g in Japanese when after a vowel, so often people read it as ga but in truth it stayed as a ka
good video with a roundup of points from the past. (fukushima-ryu is actually the best)
Please say no...(presses play)
Why was that family hated and fell from grace
I have not seen this video in years. Not sure which family it was.
I didn't dare attempt to spell it...ha ha
Wow there is never new things under the sun.
Look at ’muricka today. You say your Seal or Delta to get privet work.
Say me from Sweden whit no operator skills.
Jesus Christ, it's KOGA not KOKA!!!
John Lewis You are wrong. It is Koka not Koga. I happen to know this because i have been their many times and have even published pictures of the train stain name.
That awkward moment when you realize you should just keep your mouth shut about things you've only read about and never experienced. Or places you've only heard about and never actually visited. History you've claimed to know but haven't actually studied.