High-functioning Autism: Psychopathy? Narcissism?
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- čas přidán 28. 03. 2021
- People with high-functioning autism lack empathy and engage in criminal behaviors. Are they psychopaths? Narcissists?
Autism is not caused by vaccines, that much we know. But is it caused by bad parenting?
Refrigerator Mothers
The concept of “refrigerator mothers” has been long debunked. Autism is a brain disorder and possibly hereditary. It is not linked to bad parenting. But a dead, narcissistic mother can cause her autistic child to defend himself by developing narcissism.
ADHD has been intimately linked to the precursors in children of adult narcissism and psychopathy: conduct disorder and oppositional defiant disorder (ODD).
A bad, dead, cold, mother fosters in the autistic child narcissistic defenses and in her other children attention deficits, hyperactivity, and antisocial behavior. These dysfunctions make it difficult for the child to translate his/her reflexive empathy into mentalizing a theory of mind. Early childhood abuse and trauma, therefore, inhibit the development of a mature form of empathy, with cognitive and emotional components.
There are three problems with raising awareness and educating people about Autism Spectrum Disorders:
1. We don't know the aetiology of autism (what causes it) and whether the brain abnormalities often observed in autistic patients cause it, are caused by it, or are merely correlated (effectuated by a third, common factor);
2. Autism is a family of disorders which have little in common with each other. Some autistic persons are high-functioning and accomplished, others self-harm, are hypersensitive to stimuli, and noncommumicative; and
3. The long-discredited, "refrigerator mother" theory blamed emotionally unavailable, "dead", or "frigid" mothers for the pathogenesis of autism in their children. This deterred parents from seeking help.
The ignorance, taboos, stigma, biases, prejudices, and lack of evidence-based theories and practices that pervade mental health apply even more so to autism.
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As a (high-functioning) autistic and very empathic person I feel sooo concerned by this subject, it affects me all the time in my everyday life to the point that it sometimes gets infuriating.
It is so easy to confuse lack of emotion with lack of UNDERSTANDING of emotion and lack of empathy with lack of SHOWING empathy.
I always have to justify myself/adapt my behavior to every person that I meet (apart from other people on the spectrum who understand me naturally) because my emotions seem strange and unnatural and my empathy seems forced or calculated. And as an empath, I do enjoy meeting new people so it happens a lot.
I can tell you that I genuinely want to help you, I want to share your emotions if you need it, so please let me do it and don’t stop at the language barrier we have between us.
Why do so many people have this misconception that autistic people are egotistical ?
The reason why we seem emotionless is that nobody ever makes the effort of helping us understand and communicate the genuine emotions we have.
The reason why we calculate everything and stay to ourselves most of the time is because we can only rely on ourselves to survive because we are always seen as “different” and “weird” by default.
That is NOT being a narcissist, it is just surviving as an individual without any help and without the means of communicating efficiently in a ruthless social setting.
Maybe some of us develop over-compensation and some kind of defensive narcissism after having been traumatized at some point because of communication deficiencies BUT :
- Most of us never get to that point, we mostly are normal people trying to live without hurting anybody
- Those who do get to that point can get also self-destructive tendencies or depression just as much as aggressive/sociopathic tendencies
So the factor that will decide if an autistic person will become an actual sociopath or a psychopath is not autism but underlying factors that can lead anyone to narcissism like an abusive family or a difficult childhood.
I have met and talked to a lot of autistic people and it would really help us all if we did not always get instantly judged as “strange”, “rude”, "cold” or even assumed to be bad people or even psychopaths, just because we don’t communicate like everyone does.
And to anyone who actually makes the effort of seeing the person behind the stiff faces and the strange and clumsy language,
Thank you, you mean the world to us.
Thank you for the thought and effort you put into this comment. Yes, I've found that when people hear autistic spectrum, often they either are completely unfamiliar and confuse it with psychopathy, or they visualize low functioning Autism and assume you're mentally handicapped and that they just missed all of the signs 😂
I feel like we are forced to understand everyone, but few take the time to know us. I'm happiest alone, because people burn me out. But I still care about them, I just need a lot of time to recharge.. I'm officially Autistic, bipolar and epileptic. My mum wasn't cold, she was a burned out traumatised autistic mother by the time she had me.
It's not JUST because you can't communicate properly, it's because you GENUINELY ARE just a psychopath. You're not 'nuerodivergent', youre dangerous.
@@phylocybe_ Thank you armchair psychiatrist, but maybe you should try communicating and understanding the person you are trying to diagnose instead of jumping to conclusions based on superficial misconceptions.
@@flexprog3374 really funny that the psychopath is trying to tell ME to "understand people"
There are also people with autism who have far more empathy than neurotypicals. When it seems like they don't have empathy it could also be because they have too much and are hypersensitive to it and don't know how to act because it can be so overwhelming. The difference tends to be not that we don't have empathy, just that its hard for us to name and define how we are feeling. I know from my own personal experience and others around me is due to not understanding others intentions or social isolation, people with autism tend to fall victim to narcissistic abuse more easily. One is a personality disorder, one is neurodivergent. Due to this, its very difficult to compare the two. Interesting video though, thank you.
@@leotardbanshee try to feel with your body as to what the other person might feeling instead of with your mind. I have difficulty with mind reading (to be fair, most people do. They think they are empathic but they are shitheads who assume what other people are thinking and dare to call it empathy). I have been diagnosed with ASD and have a lot of direct empathy, meaning I feel their emotions in my body and I sense it in colours. It can be overwhelming though, hence, I enjoy my alone time. It might work that way for you too. Stop intellectualizing and instead allow yourself to feel. The medical establishment really doesn't understand autism very well. Makes me sad to see it being compared to narcissism and psychopathy. There are psychopathic autists, and narcissistic autists, just like there are such neurotypical people.
@@leotardbanshee I know it's not easy, but probably worth it at least for your own sake, if not for allowing empathy. If you do not allow yourself to feel, then you cannot respond accurately in life and might even endanger you. You don't need to label the feelings cognitively to feel, that probably only makes it more difficult. Feeling is just that, feeling, you can often sense sensations of emotions in your body. You can try to describe these sensations and maybe later in the process figure out what word neurotypical people attach to it :P. haha. I wish you the best, I know it's not easy! Blessings :)
@Pulpito Müde I completely agree. It's a very single minded view to say that those on the spectrum have less empathy. The most empathetic people I know have autism or adhd. Just because something doesn't present in the way one might expect, doesn't mean it's not there.
Ive been reading more recent studies that show people with HFA actually have high levels of empathy but often development alexithymia due to trauma. Thats why people believe we lack empathy.
@Pulpito Müde Make no mistake, Sam is only making a video like this for shock value and clicks. He knows perfectly well that those with autism or children with autism will come in and "set him straight." This video is nothing more than propaganda with an agenda.
This is anecdotical. In my life I've encountered two psychopaths, one borderline three narcissists and an aspie comorbid with npd, and in my experience, only the latter recieves immediate rejection from their social environment. I'm on the spectrum too and rejection, especially from peers, has been the story of my life... I give off this uncanny feeling. My sadistic psycho ex boyfriend, on the other hand, he's the life of the party and everyone wants to be around him. They're real con artists.
People on the spectrum tend to be the opposite, because we don't like lies, and we manifest our intentions very straightforwardly, that's why we're read 'unpolite', harsh and blunt, because to us, the unending dance of hiding intentions during social interactions is pointless, transactional and manipulative to some extent. For example, if you offer me a gift and I want it, I'll take it, but I'll be sanctioned because the unspoken social rule of politeness states that I have to refuse X amount of times before accepting it. That's nonsense to an autistic mind. It's like we belong to different cultures.
My ex is autistic and he lied often
@@tinakris7893 because he learned too.
It's as simple as lying to your parents, to avoid getting in trouble... If you're autistic, your more likely to be given a leg by your parents
@@tinakris7893 Autyści zazwyczaj kłamią, żeby uniknąć kłopotu, a wielu innych ludzi kłamie, żeby uzyskać korzyść czyimś kosztem.
Dla mnie też zawsze te odmawianie przed przyjęciem prezentu wydawało się bezsensu, ale rodzice nauczyli mnie, żeby tak robić.
My Aspie nuclear physicist uncle pushed a vending machine out of the 8th floor of a building at his 1st undergrad university in the 1960's. Why? His snickers bar got stuck, and he wanted the snickers bar. He went outside, and just took a snickers bar out of the pile of steel, glass, coins and candy. He was expelled from the university but NEVER understood why. He kept saying he "didn't" hurt anyone and didn't steal any money. He never never comprehended that the problem was he "COULD" have killed someone. He kept saying, "But I didn't hurt anyone."
i shouldn't be funny. but this is actually funny
thats a problem of low iq i think
same thing as asking someone how they would feel if they hadnt eaten breakfast that morning, if they say that they did eat breakfast then chances are they are dumb
Maybe he had aspergers but that's not why he pushed the vending machine
@@CARPitalhe did it because he wasn’t himself, he was hungry
Most "Criminal Behavior" is self medicating
I work with people on the autism spectrum, but NOT high functioning ones. Mostly with medium or severe developmental/cognitive disability on top or in tanden with the autism. In some of these people i observe very clear narcissistic and psychopathic tendencies. But because of their cognitive disability they can't hide or mask it very well or even they don't feel that need at all. And because of their very childlike behaviour and dependance, it is also more easily 'forgiven'. Also because of their constricted and controlled lives they can also do less harm in general society. But within their own little communities they still can.. and do.
I have autism and get very upset when i find out that i hurt someone. I don't like approaching people because i never know if i am wanted there or not. I cannot see the subtle body language everybody claims is going on. I care very much about other people, and do my best not to hurt other people. I think that people get confused when they say that autistics have low empathy. I care but i cannot see it and don't always know how to respond because i cannot seed the feedback normal people get. I think that normal people would have similar problems if they met an alien race and just had a translator.
Same here.
I really like the end of this. I was thinking exactly the same thing about how the autism causes defenses from relational trauma that can end up becoming narcissistic defenses.
High functioning people can be wonderful or terrible just like anyone else… But, when somebody spends their life being shlt on by peers and family members for not fitting in, only to one day discover that the people who mistreated them are factually intellectually inferior to them… well, that’s how villains are made. 🤷♀️
I think they may be more predisposed to psychopathy, but may overcome the predisposition with the correct support and care. Parents who pander or scapegoat, or who neglect to protect and/or truly invest themselves in raising their high functioning children- are not equipped to raise them properly.
It’s really sad because brilliant minds are a gift to humanity and while it’s not easy, if you are tasked to raise one- you have an obligation to take the responsibility very seriously.
My sisters husband is the coldest, most self absorbed aspy I’ve ever witnessed. He thinks he’s the smartest, greatest, most important person in every situation. He has even (after pushing for an answer) said that he doesn’t feel others pain like he just doesn’t get it. But he expects everyone to get him and be sensitive to him. The most impossible person I’ve ever dealt with.
Hahaha yup. I get this. I used to think not feeling my own pain was an asset. But, trust me, when someone they desire flips on them, they mental pain can brain damage an aspy. I was that grandiose aspy, until the one I desired was a bigger narc than me and it fried my brain. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. But it’s useful to know they can be mortified.
Sounds exactly like my ex.
@@chrissy8386 I am SO sorry!!!! How did you deal????
@@jennysilver2577 We were in a long distance relationship for 2years, when we broke up last year I was a total mess, I felt I couldn’t live without him. At the beginning of the relationship there was a lot of love bombing and I thought I’d finally met the one, then all of a sudden he went distant, but said he wasn’t. On our first Xmas he came to my parent’s house and met the family etc. I bought him lots of gifts and painted him a picture (which he loved). All I received was an unwrapped book I already had, he made no effort to make it up to me, but bought himself a load of he’s gadgets (spent thousands), and I felt like a stupid fool. Valentine’s Day arrived and I thought he’d make it up to me then, but he didn’t, even though he said he would. We’re still in contact and he wanted to get back together, but when I asked him something the other day he shouted at me and was horrible, so I’ve completely cut him out now. I’m 37 and he is 50. He looks at 18-19 year old cam girls and spends money on them, and made snide remarks about my age but said he was only joking. I went from being happy and confident to depressed and insecure within months.
@@chrissy8386 sweet woman. He’s a total narcissist. I also dated one albeit briefly and it completely fucks your mind, heart and soul. He will never change. I hate to say that because I like to give people the benefit of the doubt but with narcissists it’s so deep and disordered- they lack any empathy or care for another. When you said love bombing it all became too familiar. It’s always about the narcissist and no one else unless they are trying to get something. The good moments will never last because they are incapable. They are empty. I’m so fucking sorry. I’m here if you need anything. I will share some info- let me just find it 🙌🏻.
I am autistic, and I have psychopath NPD traits. I behave exactly like a mirror narcissist. And therefore have been searching for ways to heal - or grow. In order to do that I need a map, a map of personality development and how it becomes skewed. I have been drawing such a map, by using traits people believe are impossible to feel. I have no empathy, however, I have in place of that a completely different facet of empathy. I feel people’s disease and shadow so viscerally i call it my death dullah.
I guess in ancient culture people like me would have been called a witch. But I’m ok with that, I researched my ancestors and they were not wrong. I have mirror pain, I feel pain in others but not myself. Which helped me draw my personality maps.
@@the5starreviewer226 of course. Not disagreeing there.
This makes a lot of sense to me..strangely enough.
I wish you well.
If a person is callous it doesn't matter much to me whether or not they are able to grasp that their actions are hurtful. Neither cognitive nor affective empathy is sufficient for "empathy". The damage done is real and my own empathy is a casualty. Thank you for the video.
That's a childish response. You sound like the kind of person who gets offended because a person from another culture does something that's offensive in yours, so instead of asking, you respond aggressively and leave. Would you do that? It's the same here. I've got people offended at me just by sitting there and literally do nothing; have people ever asked me why I act the way I do? Hardly ever. Instead, they assume a lot and react like a raging mob, when all what they have to do was *asking* like sensible people. People tell you "you should know better". Oh, no clue, Sherlock, it's just my effin brain won't let me understand if you don't explain things rationally, thank you.
I feel this way too. I was phychologically tortured by my husband for years with lying and gaslighting and other covert narcissistic abuses and the thought that he is autistic kept me in an abusive situation, having my soul murdered. I therefore fully understand where your comment is coming from and I feel it deeply. My own empathy has been a huge casualty from this “relationship”, something I held most dear and treasured. I know as I distance myself and heal my wounds, I will regain my full levels of empathy and more so, in time.
Knowing the cause of the behavior helps you know how to respond. I've heard if it's autism, they can be taught.
Hearing that psychos and borderlines get better later in life is very interesting as well
My dad is ASD and NPD and borderline sadist. He doesnt care if his behvaior hurts others, he'll just deny it ever happened and lives in his own fantasy.
There's no way someone could be NPD and ASD at the same time. It's like a Circular Square.
NPD person lives in delusion and are often very social, totally opposite of someone with ASD.
My ex husband has Asperger's, and every single trait of a psychopath. He was extremely abusive,
paranoid, and controlling. He isolated me from as many people as possible, controlled every penny I spent, and when I tried to call him out on it he gaslit me into next week. I left him 4 years ago, and I still have C-PTSD from it. I don't think I'll ever let anyone get close to me again. I don't feel safe.
On the other hand, my daughter from a previous marriage has FHA, and she's so empathetic that it really hurts her to an extreme. She can become very dysregulated when she's around people who are upset. She'd do anything to make someone feel better again.
TLDR: It's called a SPECTRUM for a reason.
I think the issue lies in the way neurotypical people perceive compassion and empathy vs neurodivergent peoples views on it. I was diagnosed with PDD in 2001, now it falls under the autism umbrella. I am frequently told i am too trusting, too compassionate, too people-pleasing… but it all stems from the way society has forced me to mask, and the way I have learned to do it is to be as welcoming as possible because as a woman, that’s what people want from me in general. I actually find that the narcissist’s I have known (sadly I have been involved with a few due to many factors) seem to align with your thinking here more than anyone else. Interesting, how people deflect narcissism onto anyone with even a single overlapping quality. Many people could be classified as “anti social” and also, autistic people, “high functioning” or not, are not all anti social. We overwhelmingly don’t understand HOW to socialize irt politeness, social cues, etc but that doesn’t mean we are “anti social” by any means. Also “psychopathy” is pop psychology, there is literally no diagnosis that would label someone a “psychopath”. What NT people call psychopaths are usually people with some sort of personality disorder continuing the cycle of abuse they were taught as a child.
This!
As someone with ASD I've stopped trying to couch words or make attempts to gain people's attention years ago. If you don't like what I have to say then suck it up and I'm not eager to stroke your ego to be the friend that you want me to be so you could feel 'comfortable' in your delusion of yourself. I'm also not waiting around to be used conveniently every time you make decisions that have terrible consequences.
A lot of the claims that neurotypicals claim about us are based on lack of understanding and conceitedness. I for one know many more topics than the average neurotypical I've met. I actually had an employer ask me 'how do you know so many things'? They just don't like that you have deeper extensive knowledge on the few topics they are interested in because you know, you don't 'look' like you know anything because you don't follow their manner of dress or lose your self identity and adopt lifestyles to blend in like anyone else. Or they're not interested in the groupings of things you're interested in and perceive it to be showing off. Part of this fitting in gig that neurotypicals claim is so easy is mostly being involved in current trends but yet current trends are limited. Most neuortypicals I've come across have limited tastes in music, sports, cultural understanding and lets not mention history or geography and that's because most of them are only interested in current trends and their immediate environment. I currently live at home where I'm the 'black sheep' of the family. I'm not like the rest of them so I'm branded as crazy or strange yet I'm the only one who actually gets the ball rolling and get the job done. They will not think to ask me to help them do anything or my opinion on anything because they basically branded me as not worth asking for most of my life yet every time I've helped them they're surprised that I can.
Their social skills aren't as good as they think either. They fall prey to presentation and imagery very well. Its as if appearances distract them from the reality of the action and outcome of the actions of said individuals. When you warn them that someone's story is not adding up they will completely dismiss your assertion because you're the 'odd ' one but when the truth about the person is revealed they start avoiding you because they're embarrassed the odd one with ASD got it right. Neurotypical culture is just too complex for me to bother. When I see you're into egotistical bs I just disappear and avoid contact. I'm happier in my solitude.
I totally relate to this! I have a small group of friends that I can actually have an intelligent conversation with but I prefer to spend most of my time alone reading or learning.
So lovely to hear… touché
Completely relate, only worked me out late in life, as youngster I had dyslexia and was told I was “special” which made me feel even more awkward!! … either had friends or none, was avoided for two years as I was singled out. Black sheep and scapegoat of the family, dad was a charismatic alcoholic with and an unavailable mum with two narcissistic brothers. Lost my gran suddenly when I was 12 yrs old…she had raised me till her sudden passing. Exactly on the date, one year later, was in a car accident and was in a coma for 3 weeks, knowing that I had to achieve at school, I became religious about routine and excelled in academic, spiritual and physical abilities but failed on the social front. Became anorexia then “upper” abuse to fit in, leaving my academic for the alternative. Huge anxiety which was masked at full fledge from since I can remember. An actress on all levels…Never misunderstood basic problem solving but either had a brilliant verbal analysis or could not express myself at all and would just shut down. Very perceptive or on a completely different planet. OCD, over sensitive, but yet brought a room to standstill as I read the situations in a highly sensitive way or blanked out completely so as to mask. No one knew… I had left!
Either joining or completely switching out and ignoring, interrupt and ADHD. Very complicated and analytical but hugely liberating to know and meet eccentric me at 53 years old.
All together now….
I'm diagnosed with Aspergers and relate to this so hard
This. .. the odd one with ASD got it right, again. :)
Thank you. I think, I'm giving up on relationships...
I am also ASD diagnosed.
Thank you dear Sam for the perfect lecture. Im so grateful to have your lectures. You're the best lecturer on this topic.
Just my neurotypical experience with two male friends who have Asperger’s, they have high affective empathy (feeling the feelings of others) but low cognitive empathy (understanding a perspective that is not their own). Due to a lack of theory of mind, they struggle to view themselves and their behaviour from the standpoint of other people. One of them painted his wife the narcissist while simultaneously acting callously towards her. The other could never take responsibility for his errant behaviour and actions, instead accusing me of trying to mold him to suit myself whenever I objected. While they are not being intentionally malicious, the lack of cognitive empathy leaves me feeling unheard and misunderstood. So in that way, they leave you feeling the way a narcissist would - alone and insignificant.
leaving you feeling 'alone and insignificant'....words summarising how they make others feel
This is what worries me about the whole narcissism thing. I think the 'double empathy' problem is the root if the problem. Both parties feel misunderstood. For the person with autism they have once again been misjudged and misunderstood so they become defensive, bitter and afraid. The NT feels misunderstood and unempathized with(rightly so) and only with "this" individual so therefore its his/her fault.
This dynamic is leathal!
agree. Just because they don't mean it does not help the fact that their actions/ words hurt others. All groups of people mentioned are basically children in grown up bodies. Some mean children, and some careless and selfish .... yet all children, who struggle to be accountable.
But we also feel like you are not understanding us. When we don’t understand you we are still here and feeling misunderstood. You are the one who decides that YOU not being understood is the final straw to break the camels back. Most people I know don’t logically and confidently state their viewpoint clearly. I simulate their viewpoint through a range of different scenarios and if it conflicts with my viewpoint and I don’t want to offend them with my bluntness that they hate then I will leave them feeling misunderstood I guess but it’s not my job to make you feel understood especially if you don’t make me feel the same. Most people I know would do illegal things for money if they knew they wouldn’t be caught. Get where I’m going? My views are steadfast. Not adaptable. Never changing. Other peoples viewpoints revolve around money. Mine revolve around concepts and ideas. People always need and want and when you cannot provide they will be angry on you. Thats another reason I why I cannot tolerate people because the same people who want and need never reciprocate.
Much food for thought in this video, some of it brutal to hear, but rings true, and needed to be expressed. I recognise many of my Asperger issues in your description. Thanks for doing the video. It ought to lead to much discussion.
I am autistic. I don’t think the diagnostic revisions made things confusing. I was diagnosed in March of 2020. Back in the day I would have been diagnosed with aspergers. I think i present differently from autistics with greater disability. I’m pretty low support needs - but have never been able to work more than part time. I’m a massage therapist and pretty damn empathetic.
Is this because of anxiety? Thank you for sharing your experience 😊
Wonderful video as always. Having Aspergers is tricky because you have a need to socialize like everyone else yet socializing is also stressful and can be painful when rejected. I had no idea psycho paths had anxiety - I always thought they were rather cold disconnected people. I think it’s interesting how you linked aspies to borderlines since female aspies tend to be mistakenly diagnosed with BPD.
My mother to a tee- everyone feels sorry for her despite her aggressive, abusive out of control behavior. I felt obligated to stay with her until we shared a house last year and her anti-social, abusive, destructive, selfish behavior came out. I'm lucky i made it out alive. An example- My mother didn't like my daughter's boyfriend , so she called his mom and threatened to "flatten" him if he dated my daughter. She also said she'd bring my son. The police could have arrested her, but she's old. She lacks impulse control. Unfortunately, she turned her rage on me.
For the decade we were together I wrote off my ex’s cold, and at times, ruthless behaviour as depression/undiagnosed autism. When i found out about the secret life he’d been living I reframed it as narcissism. Ultimately, which ever way you cut it, the dude’s behaviour is that of a grade 1 arsehole 😂
We made such excuses for those grade A arseholes. Hmm hmm
Sounds exactly what I went through! Blamed it all on autism, 2 years later I find out of his second life.
What did he do?
@@Leptyzz built a relationship parallel to me, planned a wedding, got married. Continued to lie elaborately until i confronted. Drowned in lies, but for 2 years blamed every shady behavior on autism. Total low life.
@@russsgirl Jesus that’s insane. It’s possible to have both autism and psychopathy, so maybe that explains his condition.
I was diagnosed with Asperger's and I am not a narcissist. Okay maybe I am a narcissist in the way that I'm very hyper focused on what I'm doing and I don't always pay attention to what others are doing.
Persons with narcissistic personality disorder are manipulative, Play Mind Games, gaslighting, play two different characters. Are very charismatic. I was married to one.
Most people with Autism are not like this, at least not people that I know. Many people with Autism including myself me look cold on the outside, but on the inside are very sensitive and feel things very deeply, are honest to a fault, naive, and easy to manipulate.
The point the professor is making is that the behaviour manifested specifically is analogous with narcissism in practicality, but the underlying cause is different. And that this behaviour could be misdiagnosed as narcissism due to learned coping behaviours.
EDIT: I didn't mean to come across as curt by the way, I too have aspergers.
@@dotanon No the point the professor was making is that the "high functioning" variant of autism or Asperger's have similar brain wiring- Babies and children are inherently narcissistic (self oriented) Narcissist are guided by control, reading emotions and capitalizing on them. HF Autism wants the same but doesn't have the trait of dark empathy, so they are overtly selfish in nature. At the core they are the same, but powered off of different sources. The narcissist doesn't care about your emotions but pretends to out of a superiority complex, selective empathy. Autism only cares about your emotions because the emotions of others are abstract to them. But high functioning Autism can understand your emotions and objectives, but doesn't feel them, but knows if it goes along with what you want, they can get what they want, turning classic autistic vanity into narcissism.
@Mandaloolu shows classic autistic traits thinking that any mention of narcissistic autism means that people are calming that she (and all other autistic people) are narcissist. Narcissism is an acquired response to their vanity since vanity is one step away from narcissism. Their brains are wired similar in some aspect. But you absolutely can be autistic and clinically narcissistic. That's like say Bipolar, schizophrenics and other non dark trait DSM individual. Bipolar is different from narcissism, but they CAN be narcissist. He's making the implication that it cannot overlap because of traditional autism's self oriented behavior and lack of empathy.
High functioning autism can very well have empathy, but no emotional affect (influence on oneself) while also being raised in a harsh environment, or is never taught moral principals, that or the don't care due to lack of affect, this person develops narcissism just like neurotypical children do. All narcissist are people who have developed the need to need to manipulate people and odds in their favor, autistic people aren't exempt. An autistic person exhibiting narcissistic traits (Not to be confused with typical vanity but calculated manipulation of people over an extended period of time) Aren't "just being autistic" and should be given a pass.
@@ysandrelombarde1227 Yes, absolutely, and i can certanly relate to that. I sometimes felt pussled by i am the one that had to (in a friendly and polite manor of corse) enlighten my NT friends about that they are dojng things that are not socialy acceptable by other persons while i expected it to be the opposite, i think seeing things from a disconnected 3rd person perspective can sometime be beneficial actualy.
Mam podobnie, w dodatku jestem naiwny do takiego stopnia, że nie jestem w stanie sobie nawet wyobrazić, że ktoś może mnie okłamać lub oszukać. Dopiero po czasie jak coś przeanalizuję na spokojnie, to dochodzi do mnie, że zostałem okłamany.
I wish people took into account the difference between cognitive empathy and emotional empathy. I am diagnosed high functioning autistic and can absolutely assure everyone that I feel emotional empathy, on a very deep level, to the point I'll disadvantage myself to not hurt or upset another, because it makes me so upset to do so. Myself, and pretty much all the other autistic people I am friends with, have a strong sense of justice and order, and would never dream of breaking a rule, let alone comitting a crime (though of course there are autistic criminals, no argument there)
But lots of autistic people have no issues with emotional empathy, and even may have an excess of it.
What autistic people *can* struggle with is cognitive empathy, quite different to emotional empathy. And lot of non autistic people struggle with that, too.
Watch my videos on cold empathy.
@@samvakninseems everyone wants to be neurodivergent until someone tells it like it is
I have ASD and all of this is spot on. Thank you Professor Sam Vaknin for making this video.
You helped set me free tonight Sam. 🙏🏽
I have aspbergers and I can tell you I don't believe I could ever harm another person outside of legitimate legal self defense...(if someone is actively trying to injure or kill me.) As for empathy, when I see others suffer it definitely does affect me... it makes me u happy and sad for that person or those people. Like for example what is happening in China to the uyghur people. I don't understand why anyone can treat innocent people like that.
@@katieandnick4113 yes
I have HFA/Aspergers and I can tell you I very well could harm someone else, I don’t feel the urge to steal or the urge for attention but when I’m frustrated and when I’m upset or overwhelmed I very well can commit a violent act. However I seek no attention I don’t want attention, I don’t have many friends maybe 2, but I’d die for them. I find I have an addictive personality but not for admiration, Definitely not Machiavellian, definitely not psychopathic because I feel remorse I feel a form of empathy towards the people I care about and random people, and I feel regret and shame and I fear embarrassment.
I do feel a stronger connection towards crime and anti social behavior. So maybe I am leaning more towards a form of psychopathy .
I believe it’s a spectrum for a reason and some people fall into certain categories with certain sub categories I cannot speak for all autismo’s.
But like he said the psychopath regresses in his second half of life that could be ancestral, maybe his gene pool lived short lived and had to strive really hard really fast to achieve a desired outcome. Same with bpd maybe it’s ancestral.
Appreciate you sharing your experience. Not try to derail the conversation into the political and communication realm, the example you gave re: Uyghur has a lot of intentional misinformation, and the bogus “research” that all of them rely on has been rejected by academic peer review committees. Don’t let your empathy being used for the ugly western political games. My advice, do proper research using different search engines, read peer reviews journals and understand the complexity of the issue.
@@blackcici agreed. I think uyghur gets some things right, but not all, and as for the western political games, yeah we got a lot of issues, that's for sure... even what passes for "music" here in the states is bland and boring as he//, compared to what's in the rest of the world...
Same I’m an aspie n I too could only hurt someone in self defense
As someone with Autism i can say that i have always been inherently very self centered, Ever since my childhood, Growing up in a house hold with an abusive and narcissistic father definetaly did not help, Having Autism is more comparable to something like Borderline Personality disorder in my opinion, We are generally not malicious, But we have some moral deficits and act on impulse, I can definetly say that it was the case for me growing up, Also we tend to have a high IQ and tend to be very perceptive as well. I think people with Autism can be Borderline Psychopathic.
@@margyrowland We are perceptive, More so than the average person and this is even shown in scientific literature, Theres a reason body image disorders are more common in Autistic people and why autistic people excel in Art, Photography etc, When i say perception i mean mostly the visual perceptions.
@@semenretaininggay7715 Some autistic people aren't visual thinkers, some are more verbal and some more patten-based. I have no visual imagination at all, I think verbally and do a lot of monologuing when I'm alone to compensate and prepare myself for potential situations.
@@dotanon Ooh the ”monologueing”. I do that obsessively. They are not inner, silent monologues but outright, spoken, verbal processing of my inner world. Unfortunately I am under stress and not functioning under current life circumstances and my constant, lively and often emotional/over-engaged self talk is actively intruding on my life. I have no calm on the inside (except if I am very tired or worn out) and my chatter worsens with frustration and irritation. I was diagnosed autistic almost a year ago, plus ADHD. I have tried out meditation for about six months, currently on Vyvanse 50 mg. I think it adds to my obsessive talking. I don’t like it, but my doctor wants me to keep taking it. Never been on anti-depressants, but I think a low dose serotonine could help me battle the compulsiveness of my self-talk. Don’t know, but I just don’t feel happy at all with current ”treatment” plan. I suspect that a lot of my dysregulation would be far better if I was allowed to be my ”autistic” me.
The perceptive abilities in autism that may seem pronounced are probably linked to something like intuition from atypically shaped and pronounced synesthesia. I believe this is why so-called genius savants can be specialized in areas that are so disparate.
@@katieandnick4113 yeah….. no they are not! They are completely different diagnosis altogether.
As a ASD Level 1 person, I can say that theory-of-mind & empathy deficits is more about weak or slower intuition of other minds, rather than a complete lack of either. That is how in fact how Simon Baron-Cohn understood it originally & more explicitly now. Cheers.
This is very concerning to me, because my 4-yo granddaughter is exhibiting so many Autism (level one) traits, and has been recommended for diagnostic testing. Unfortunately her mother (whom I adopted after being her foster parent) has a few screws loose, and behaves towards me like a true narcissist. I have read that narcissistic mothers can cause serious psychological harm to their kids, especially a daughter. And if that child starts out on the Autism spectrum as well? I’m 72 years old, and can’t decide what to do . . .
I am diagnosed autistic and have frequently suffered gut problems and see gut problems happening alot with autistics so I still doubtful the is no connection I am also so emphatic to the degree it disables me
Many women with ASD Level 1/ Asperger's are first mis-diagnosed with BPD &/or Bipolar II, and then prescribed medication. If they are diligent and lucky, they can get the correct diagnosis.
This is such an interesting subject. I wondered this myself so many times. It's very confusing question. If you know some psychopaths seem autistic in nature from the outside until you dig into their personalities. Thanks for your analysis.
The main differences between Narcissism and Autism are the age of the diagnosis and perspective. In my opinion whether you have NPD or Autism, either way you cannot help your behavior. Society tells us to have compassion for people with autism, they can’t help their behavior. And society also tells us to have contempt for narcissists, that they should be responsible for their behavior. The difference is, people with autism are generally diagnosed as children, whereas people with NPD are diagnosed as adults. You have more compassion for a child. In Bessel Van Der Kolk’s ‘The Body Keeps The Score’ he discusses stress response behavior as a reaction to trauma. If you compare autistic behavior next to narcissistic behavior, especially when you factor in all of the sensory issues, the two are virtually the same. The only difference is perspective. Do they have empathy or not? It depends on who is making the evaluation. I believe both groups of people are essentially “stuck” in trauma.
Autism is communication disorder, so trying to understand autism from the perspective of outside behavior is stupid. The behavior of an autistic person doesn't reflect what they actually think and feel. They can give the outside impression that they don't have empathy but this is not the case, they just usually can't express their empathy to the world due to a lack of communication skills.
This is totally different to a narcissistic person who actually lacks empathy on primary level and can't really think empathically most of the time.
This misunderstanding of autistic empathy based on a surface level understanding of what autism actually is is very harmful. Autistic people are constantly being misunderstood for emotionless and egotistical beings just because they can't understand and communicate properly the language of emotions, when they do in fact have a lot of emotions and feel other's emotions like everyone else.
You will see in statistics that narcissists are mostly abusers, and that autistic people are mostly getting abused. Autistic people do not want to harm other people and are very vulnerable due to their lack of social skills, they are really not likely to do any societal harm unlike narcissists.
A very well presented topic. I am interested in these types of subjects.
I never get tired of listening to your Very Informative lectures. And getting to admire your handsome good looks is just another perk!
Autistic, criminal minded, in pain, don't mean to be that way
I really enjoyed this video. The neurodiversity of autists and narcissists is very interesting. I would like to see a male borderline study. Then we would be able to see if the divergence is by sorting females to borderline or if it is in fact, harder to see females as narcissists. I think psychologists find it easier to put females into the borderline category as they freely morph their emotions and emotional stability. I think many people see borderline as a female-dominated category, and narcissism as a male-dominated category and are afraid of crosovers.
Watch my vids on covert borderlines.
This is another excellent video.
I would really appreciate it if you did a thorough video about autism, especially females as many studies haven’t looked at females very often and many of us are undiagnosed which is very traumatic and those who finally get diagnosed in adulthood suddenly have this overwhelming relief and integrated view of themselves and their whole life starts to make sense. It’s such a shame that so many of us don’t get the help we could have gotten if we had been diagnosed as children. Life is torture if you can’t understand yourself and you’re always the odd one out. The worst part for me was the sensory issues that had been driving me crazy that I couldn’t figure out until adulthood and now I’m able to help myself by managing my environment better. I thought I had a mood disorder, but it turned out it was just things like lights and fabrics and sounds, etc. I was shocked that I live in this body and couldn’t figure that out before diagnosis. I would love to hear everything you know and also how to distinguish it from cptsd too as that didn’t make it in to this video. Also, the topic of masking is something that needs much more attention as it’s what keeps us from getting diagnosed and attributes to many of us being unable to work later in life because we burn out from masking our whole lives and once we drop the masks and find out about the autism/our true self, we cannot stand to put it back on so work becomes very difficult and we also have a high divorce rate, lots of medical problems, high suicide rates and often die young because we can’t get to the doctor, we can’t express properly to doctors and get dismissed, and have issues with interoception so don’t even understand what’s going on in our bodies. Pair that with alexithymia and it’s total madness. Like being trapped in a box made out of one way glass and we’re banging on it and screaming and people can’t see us and hear our cries very faintly and just walk by. It’s very sad. Once diagnosed we can finally find some relief by meeting other neurodivergent people.
Very good video as always.
Brilliant episode thank you. I am a late diagnosed autistic my score was 191 on the AQ. still learning all that I can x
Very informative-very interesting/fascinating lecture-it really helps me in understanding my husband and son. It’s easier to love and accept my son as who he is than to love and accept (or endure) the husband ..... after 30 years of marriage with five children I suddenly feel like I need therapy..... but not sure what kind of therapist can understand or help me😞
I feel you.
This topic has opened a new door for me in discovering what my ex is REALLY DIAGNOSED WITH! I HAVE ASKED HIM ABOUT AUTISM AND IF HE HAS EVER BEEN TOLD THAT HE HAS IT-LET US SEE IF HE RESPONDS TO ME. I MET HIS REFRIGERATED MOM ONE DAY ON THE STREET AND SHE WAS COLD AS ICE. FATHER ON PHONE CONTINUES TO PUT HIS SON DOWN. AND HE HAS A FUNCTIONING TWIN WHO I HAVE NEVER MET! INTERESTING AS ALWAYS DR. VAKNIN!!
Is it common for HFA's to surround themselves, unwittingly, with malignant personality types?
As an Aspie I would say definitely yes.
They are easy to manipulate and cannot read danger as well. Plus they are desperate for friendships so they will endure abuse just to not be alone
I got involved with all sorts growing up, I had no common sense.
I think you have it backwards, Malignants are drawn to HFAs and ADHDers
Malignant types seek out those they can manipulate and use to their own advantage; those on the autism spectrum fall into that category, as do individuals who have other types of “disabilities”, “illnesses”, or “weaknesses” that make them easier targets.
Professor Vaknin. Great video. I have been suspected of having some kind of autism spectrum disorder, but not specified. Do you think that the removal of aspergers syndrome from the DSM was a bad idea, since we see so much difference between the spectrum?
I thought that it is believed that most high functioning autistic have ADHD. ADHD has that impulsively component and can result in behavioral issues and crimes. In fact, some study I read said that research suggested 40% or more of incarcerated individuals have undiagnosed ADHD.
My official diagnosis was PDD/NOS. That would be ASD nowadays. I asked to my psychologist several years ago, whether I also had ADHD. He said no. I am way too calm and am not impulsive enough to get an ADHD diagnosis, he said.
Very descriptive video pertaining to my human experience.
Thanks ,exactly the information I needed and suspected. A cold mother might be of influence on narcistic traits in an asperger person. Thanks a lot.
My husband have ASD
It’s very hard to live with
I’m with him for 29 years
It’s daily stragglers for him I actually feel bad for him
What about the fathers? If the father is abusive, can he elicit narcissism in his children? I should think so! ~ Anastacia in Cleveland
Yes, they can, but of a different kind and intensity ("narcissistic style").
@@samvaknin Thank you for answering my question! I was married to a narc, and both of his parents were pretty awful to him, each in their own way. His alcoholic mom could be, by turns, neglectful and smothering. She liked to impress her religious friends by his recitation of Bible verses when he was a little kid. His dad was abusive, sometimes neglectful, and was just not engaged with him. He was an only child for 12 years and was the first grandchild on both sides of his family. It was as if he was either a little prince or a big hassle to his parents.
My ex- husband was diagnosed with Autism 1 a few years ago and his younger sister was diagnosed with BPD. 🤔 Really makes you think.
Females are quite often misdiagnosed BPD rather than autism
This says it all!
I was diagnosed with asperges lvl 2 Autism ADHD CD ODD OCD possibly ASPD. In many occasions I do experience a bit of fear at occasions. But I have near to none empathy or remorse, I fought amongst peers or workers. The only time I cried was when ever it effected my reputation but other than that I had no remorse. I tend to manipulate quite alot of people most of the time I don't realise it but in the end I don't regret it. And also I might have extremely high ego but I don't notice it and I simply care less unless it benefits me or makes my personal reputation higher.
Good luck with that. You’re going to end up dying alone if that’s how you treat people.
you sound very much 80% narcissistic...no judgement...just impartial comment
@@alanakasem1723 my ex gf 😂
Thank you
I'm ASD, I have empathy for days if I can reasonably figure out the presence of an emotion someone is going through. I'm a woman, nurse.
I come from a long line of autistics,my dad just got DX at 73 ,he is a chess champion in my country , didn't speak until he was 6,myself got DX at 45, I masked until I burned out,my 3 now young adult children got dx after 18, i have to disagree about the language and being high functioning,my son who is 21 now didn't speak until he was 6 ,he had an IQ test and he scored 146, so he didn't get dx with neither Aspergers or Autism, bcs he was "too smart for autism and Aspergers didn't have speech delays, this is bfr the DSM-5, btw one very common comorbidity is Hypemobile Ehlers Danlos Syndrome,and according to.some studies there might be a link between ASD/ADHD and the hypermobility, when it comes to empathy ,many of us lack cognitive empathy,so basically like you said we are very naive ,bcs we fail to see ppls intentions, Psychopaths score high on cognitive empathy, but many of us we have very high compassion and also.according to some studies autistic ppl tend to do the right thing whether they are being watched or not, and many of us are whistleblowers or activist or working with animals ,i believe that they might be diagnosing some ppl ppl that committed crimes with autism when they can be schizoid psychopaths .
I have high functioning autism, i was doubting myself psychopathy for a while, because there is no emotional response when given a compliment, or negative feedback. Something other ppl feel strongly about. And i am self centred, goal orientated, and more rational and logical than most. However having born in a narcissistic family, autism and narcissism are definitely not the same. I have empathy, it is reserved for animals and kids, and people i care about, it is almost like i am being rational about my empathy. And no manipulation, no attention, admiration seeking. But yes, detached more or less.
Yep something that soothes me is that I'm the only one who cares about pet's wellbeing. While other family members just ignore it.
I feel their discomfort but I've been taught to ignore it. I still feel very guilty for all the pets that have been neglected by my family. They used pets to control me. Keep me chained.
I worry I'm becoming like them.
But I can't take good care of pets if I don't have my needs met first.
I came here to learn more about my autism and how it interacts with other disorders. With the empathy part, I feel more empathy for others on the spectrum rather than regular people. I remember attending a funeral and asking myself, am I supposed to be sad rn
I hate eye contact. I'm one of the best employees at my job as long as I don't have to make eye contact with anyone
To continue 20:15 when I work and in robot mode XD I call it auto pilot
21:42 this sounds bad, but I studied serial 💀offrs to see how they interacted with people and uhhhhhh wow what they do works to get to talk to people (I promise I don't 💀 people)
Well I am hfa with criminal tendencies and less empathy, was confused because these are some qualities of psychopathy yet I did not meet the full diagnostic criteria. This video helps clarify and account for the overlapping qualities of hfa and psychopathy that I possess :).
I can get all the feelings of fear at night in the dark or from being up a tall building, but if someone directly threatens me with violence, I don't feel anything. I just get ready to fight, and the most I feel is concern that my body might be damaged. It actually bothers me that I don't feel afraid.
I drove a cab for many years and was on beta blockers because I had constant fear, and maybe I've trained myself not to produce adrenaline when in a threatening situation.
I'd be interested to get your opinions (you and your viewers) on the possible process by which I have gone from a timid child to a totally fearless adult when challenged with violence. Is this perhaps not an uncommon progression to make into manhood?
I know exactly what you mean.
Sweet Creator, Professor Vaknin, you described me to an extreme when you explained the high-functioning autistic! The only anomaly I seem to have (assuming I'm HFA) is that I definitely have empathy, especially when it comes to animals. 🤔
Many Autistic spectrum people possess normal or very large amounts of empathy, and it's just an issue of processing and expressing. I have no idea why he would claim otherwise besides the fact that he admits he's a clinical narcissistic in this video, if that affects his views on the topic at all.
@@aiyahuntacheimumbi236 - Thank you for that validation! 💗
@@Trollophilecause animal can be more easily controlled ,usually very selfish people that like to stroke their egos ,love animals ,hate humans
@SRBOMBONICA86 - In my case, I have no desire to manipulate others, do not "lose it" when one of my pets is difficult to "control" and have no need for public acceptance.
@@Trollophile it's in your subconscious,public acceptance is irrelevant to sociopaths anyway,most high functioning autistic people have sociopathy,it's not popular opinion but I genuinely believe it was and is true that most autistic people are sociopathic
Would you say also that necessarily HFA and Aspergers differ in their cognitive inclinations? I ve known people on the spectrum with both high visual intelligence and verbal intelligence. I myself draw a lot and am a language teacher.
I was psychologically tortured by my husband for years with lying and gaslighting and other covert narcissistic abuses and the thought that he is autistic kept me in an abusive situation, having my soul murdered with no remorse. My own empathy has been a huge casualty from this “relationship”, something I held most dear and treasured. I know as I distance myself and heal my wounds, I will regain my full levels of empathy and more so, in time.
Dr. Sam, does electric shock therapy scramble them up even worse? My mother had that in the 60s- she's very unstable and fearful and self centered. Child-like really.
5:00 Different* Not wrong. We see things normies can't see. It makes us productively valuable, so you keep us around as long as we can satisfy your interest.
In this video lecture: ( 6 months ago ) czcams.com/video/11MTEnuwprQ/video.html
you mentioned some types of therapy could ressemble to narcissistic abuse.
Where can I find more information about this? Could you develope this topic a bit more ? Thank you and sorry for my deviation from the subject of autism.
Thanks for all the lectures, as usually.
Okay hello sir i just commented on your other video, asking a question and then i re searched your channel and i guess i found the answer. Thanks I’m gonna watch it now …
I could see a conversation would be very interesting with this one.
Sam tell me about this ideology my friend and I came up with a hypothesis id like opinions on. Cluster b personality disorders are enhanced and or created from languages primarily the english language having too many words. Unlike other languages that have very clear distinguishing directions to them the english language leaves alot to be interpreted by an over abundance of social cues. Essentially teaching kids from a young age how to manipulate with words.
Interesting theory but presents a chicken/egg scenario - did the manipulators create the language or did the language create the manipulators?
@@tyd8077 If we consider how language and education has been used to control populations historically in the birthplace of English, like in medieval times where scribes were specifically trained, and that with concepts like the "Queen's English", English has many very rigid conventions and formal guides that presumably could be dictated somewhat by people in the government/Monarchy, or in the old days by monk scribes in monasteries etc, it's an interesting idea for sure to think that perhaps there are people who forged modern English to make it more ambiguous and open to interpretation in order to influence peoples' behaviour.
Do I think it's the case? No. But fun thought experiment. :)
@Prof. Sam Vaknin can you do a video of star wars and personality disorders
Hang on a second professor Vaknin..
Great video by the way very informative.
How can a psychopath stop been a psychopath in there later years, when they are defined as having a lack of empathy and a wired differently..
Surely you can't grow a conscience ?
They cease being antisocial, their behaviors change. Psychopathy is a BEHAVIORAL disorder (the diagnostic criteria describe BEHAVIORS).
@@samvaknin Antisocial Personality Disorder describes an individuals behavior. Psychopathy is a neurological condition that someone is born with, they got actual structural differences in their brain. Isn't this more correct to say? Psychopathy and sociopathy can both be the cause of an Antisocial Personality Disorder diagnosis, at least this is my interpretation of what I have read in psychopathological literature and videos I have seen on youtube.
They can A) get locked up, killed, addicted B) start succeeding and hide their worst behaviors (become a CEO) or 3) become isolated there is a theory that DHT and testosterone play into it, which would also explain a drop in antisocial behavior later in life.... or perhaps they have simply already established successful patterns of meeting their antisocial needs by this point.
3:42 that's because when women decide to put themselves and their needs before others, it's called sociopathy. When men do it, it's just called assertiveness.
Could the physical symptoms of psychopathy such as an absence of any physical stimulation in the presence of something fear inducing be psychosomatic in nature, or do you believe these differences to be evidence of neurological impairment?
Watch my vid on the anxious psychopath.
@@samvaknin Thank you Dr Vaknin
I was compelled to watch this video after watching your video on the connection between physical abuse and the body (which was very good I'll add). My spouse is abusive, he is also on the autism spectrum. That said, I have ADHD.. a disorder that is also on the neurodiversity spectrum, (like asd) and has been linked to similar hereditary gene cascades as a theory of causation. That said, I am a bit taken aback, considering your clear intellect and academic background- by what seems to be a profound misunderstanding of what autism spectrum disorders are. Now, I am only halfway through the video, so I am finishing it and giving myself a chance to hear what you are proposing, but, you continue to compare ASD and various personality disorders without the qualifying explanations for why those behaviors frequently found in ASD tend to happen and how those explanations differ from the reasons someone with a cluster B personality displays those behaviors. For example, you mention violent crime, and cite the high occurance of violent crime within the autistic community as a similarity to cluster B personalities. Though that data may be accurate, so far you have failed to account for the fact that violence within autistic persons is attributed to states of overstimulation. The portion of the brain responsible for blocking out "noisy" stimuli is less developed in the autistic patient vs the neurotypical patient, as well as the prefrontal-cortical mechanisms that allow for better emotional control. Executive functions, whether in ASD or ADHD are impaired and a person's ability to moderate their emotional responses to suit their environment is greatly reduced. This differs from someone with a cluster B personality disorder in a myriad of ways. You yourself have spent a lot of time referencing trait theory and it's connection to PD's. Yet so far I've seen nothing that indicates your acknowledgement of this *very* important distinction. Those with ASD do not have an unfortunate exacerbation of normal personality traits as a rule. If they sometimes do, there is no literature to support that the two are in any way connected. The disorders that exist on the neurodiversity spectrum are only "disorders" in the sense that they are in the population minority. Unlike PD's, or indeed- simple mental illness, autism is a fundamentally different *neurotype* than the majority.
Now, being in a relationship with an autistic abuser and having researched neurodiverse neurotypes extensively- I will say that there seems to be a connection between abusive behaviors and autism that is left untreated. Those who are most likely to go undiagnosed and untreated for decades are of course those who are "higher functioning" or what would once be called asperger syndrome. I do believe that without interventional socialization training and empathetic skill development, a person on the spectrum may share a whole host of behaviors that would otherwise be assumed to derive from traits found within the B cluster.
However, to ignore the foundational differences within these two very different afflictions..one being a measurably distinctive neurotype and the other being a group of disorders primarily expressed as malignant traits and self centric values, you mislead your audience.
The costs to individuals of all diverse neurotypes that could result from this sort of categorization are great, and the point you seem to be attempting to make could just as easily be made without using language and comparisons that reduce these individuals to the *effects* of their behaviors on *other individuals* with no real concern for the *neurodevelopmental basis* and valid reasonings of these outwardly visible effects.
It is as though you are intentionally speaking only to the neurotypical audience demographic who in addition to having very little understanding of autism, also have a predisposition to aligning themselves with a mentality of victimhood, due to their already established preconceptions of autism (which they more than likely gained from their own negative experiences with autistic friends, family and partners).
Thanks for this. All true. Well said. But there is no stopping Sam; as he himself acknowledges, he is a narcissist and thus the more attention he gets, the happier he is...☠️
I appreciate this channel because of the connections he makes and I appreciate this comment. Its actually a esoteric concept that your body always remembers everything because it keeps the score but now its a widely known thing. My mother always told me that even if you forget your body remembers abuse , hence why a lot of people have serious health issues that are ongoing. (Whether that person remembers it or not) My mother also always told me that sometimes its not even a physical issue, sometimes youre dealing with mental stuff or spiritual stuff and it manifests into a physical problem. Ive had partners who had serious depression, and it can lead to stomachaches that don't go away, doctors have confirmed this and I've had more than 1 partner with the same issue, and your stomach is your second brain anyways. Its not farfetched to me .
@@cynthiafortier2540 if you grew up in abuse, you usually do not know any better. If youre in a vulnerable position it takes a long time to get out especially if the person youre with is dangerous/malicious. Some people enjoy the drama. I could keep listing reasons why. and We all sit here and shake our heads but we shouldn't. Its a tough thing to go through
Eh, the conversation is needed for all and ongoing. My dad is ASD and NPD and borderline sadistic. We have both in the family.
RE: BPD remitting. I think it is rather the worst Behavior disappears. BPD requires a lot of physical and mental energy. It takes a lot to scream and yell in a rage and throw furniture almost everyday you know.
People with disabilities often have more than one diagnosed disability.
Some autistic people can be monsters, just like NT people. My father has cluster b disorders and he's autistic. He's not just showing his feelings "differently." He's evil, and my youngest sister especially was profoundly abused and tortured by him - and he knows exactly what he's doing. He proudly compares himself to Hitler and admires school shooters. My children are autistic and my girls don't have a single mean bone in their bodies. They're the sweetest people I've ever met. My son doesn't go out of his way to be cruel, and doesn't get joy out of others' misery, but he doesn't have empathy - but he has some compassion. He's mildly cognitively impaired though.
I have ASD and I have Empathy matter fact, I have lots of it to the point would I would never hurt anyone I would not be able to bear seeing someone else hurt from my actions
I know everyone in the chat is like saying that some people with ASD have empathy but it doesn't really show the people who are apathetic and that have ASD and the link with psychopathy.
I think it's tricky to really describe empathy. I am autistic and I experience negative emotions when I see people experiencing negative emotions, but I think I don't understand why very well. It's like an automatic response that I can't actually comprehend, if that makes sense. Animals too, when my dogs are distressed I feel distressed. It's like I don't truly understand the pain someone is going through. I just see them in a state of emotional distress and I echo their distress internally.
I just found out that the people in a friend group I was recently kicked out of labeled me a narcissist.
I'm trying to understand why
I remember rrading that Psychopaths and Autistics have less mirror neurons, so this is a very interesting watch
Mirror neurons is another overhyped under-researched almost nonsense.
My step son is autistic and his father is narcissist and I recently lost a small pet. The room the pet was in shares a wall with my step son and I haven't seen her again and she has access to his room though the wall. I wonder if he killed her cause I was in the room and when I went to put her away I never found her again. His father has thrown animals out in the desert if they got sick and his father swears his son didn't get autism from him. His son spends months in his room and his dad let's him do what he wants, do you think his son could have psycopathy? His autism isn't bad and he also has physical issues like cross eyes and walks on the balls if his feet.
I'm confused don't know exactly, what's the difference 🤔! Yeah! That's sounds like me!
I am high functioning and started speak late and have genius level verbal IQ.
Genes as it is found alot in the fathers side.
they diagnosed me as high functioning autistic but i started thinking i might juss b psychopath ty for clearing that up
Prof. Sam Vaknin, do primary psychopathy also decline with age?
Yes.
Imagine having MCDD. Mood swings, ASD traits and social behaviour of GAD, shitzo or NPD and ASPD.
Its a ghostland in research.
That's me.
Imo, this is BPD. It's highly comorbid, more so with specific traits.
Research traits of the disorders and don't get stuck on a label or disorder!! :)
@@AnimosityIncarnate Many people have said to me to focus on the feelings/problems that arise than to stare at static descriptions. but as i see it, there are no issues, i see people behave hostile and, while i can understand them through rational thinking,i don't understand their motivation. i really hate it that they can't rise above their feelings.
very specialized psychiatrists said that i have Autism and that there is not a single personality disorder in me despite some traits of mine linger to odd ideas of perfect love/ obsession etc.
TL:DR I don't recognise myself in the problems of most people with Autism.
I don't know the difference! It takes me lots of times to understand or just continue some other days, weeks or months!🤔🤔🤔🤔
We have no idea what causes autismn.....but we know for sure what doesn't..............
Diagnosed as adult with ASD..suits me, guided the evaluation on purpose.. get supports some financial in university..thing is, I know im a psychopath. Im aware of my empathy deficits can fake affective empathy ( but only for a reason that suits me) have good cognitive empathy . Studying psychology. You do what you do to get where you want to be
Cold empathy. Cognitive empathy is just one component.
@@samvaknin thank you Prof Vaknin
@@donnathedead7554 supply?
@@donnathedead7554 I am studying it for the interest in the subject. I dont need the job at the end of it.
Interesting, we seem similar.
Is remittance of psychopathy really cause for celebration? Newfound realizations of guilt and fear may not be enjoyable.
It’s probably the psychopathic behavior that fades away, not the psychopathic mindset. While an aging psycho might not be conning people he still probably has no remorse
Is OCPD an artificial categorization of High Functioning ASD with Narcissism or something distinct?
Autism involves OCD traits. OCD rarely involves autism.
@@samvaknin You mentioned that "a narcissistic mother can cause her autistic child to defend himself by developing narcissism" and that OCD is a common co-morbidity with Autism. Is OC_P_D a form of high-functioning autism co-morbid with narcissism or truly different diagnosis?
At around eight minutes, when you start discussing that we don't know why high-functioning autists commit a disproportionate amount of crimes, I realized I've casually held the opinion that the criminal population is made up of those of really high intelligence at a similar rate as those with really low intelligence, since they are both societal "misfits" as compared to those who meet average requirements and might have average ambitions. Not being able to meet (social or personal) requirements or ambitions (regardless of why) would cause the antisocial frustration needed to cheat society, as I see it.
*this is not to discount other factors for criminal arrest, like race or class or other identities
@@stefan1024 Hi. I hear what you're saying about the flaw of conflating conviction with criminal action, it's a good point. Still, to say that autistic people are more likely to be convicted (because of their lack of privilege), is still trying to draw a meaningful relationship between the two. Are you saying that no meaningful conclusions can be drawn about people's social (privileges/identities) from crime data, as the social climate in which crime is convicted complicates it too much?
On terminology, I mean "identity" to say in a strict sense "a way in which a person can be identified" like a stratification, a distinguishing factor. If there is no dynamic of power on a detail, for instance being brunette vs. blonde, are these descriptors still privileges? Are they not identities because they are inborn? What would you call an inborn identity that does not have clear social advantage or disadvantage?
@@stefan1024 just a PS: identity is from the Latin identicus, "the same", and facio, "to place".
Well, my college professor was a criminal pathologist. Loose Derrick county El centro college.
My son has PDA & or ODD, he is like a psychopath. He definitely doesn't have aspergers though as he didn't talk til he was 4
“Narcissism is hopeless. “.... cold therapy?
Cold therapy tackles the False Self and grandiosity (only ONE element of pathological narcissism, albeit a crucial one).
@@samvaknin My mistake, I watched the video today where you said that cold therapy worked better for MDD than NPD.
I would say that this characterization of asperges as a cartoonishly sensitive emotional condition is self indulgent and motivated more by fashion than observance. As the kyriat yam Gaon said, it's a family of conditions