Spectrum vs. narcissism: An unlikely differential | Clinical Correlation
Vložit
- čas přidán 29. 03. 2021
- One wouldn't think autism spectrum disorder belonged in the same universe as narcissistic personality disorder. Yet sometimes emotional disconnection and seeming lack of empathy leads to miscommunication. There is one key difference, however. Clinical Correlation is published every other Monday on the Psychcast feed. You can email the show at podcasts@mdedge.com, and you can learn more about MDedge Psychiatry here: www.mdedge.com/podcasts/psych....
- Věda a technologie
As someone with ASD, I can be very hurtful to only those who attempt to hurt me. I don’t intentionally hurt anyone otherwise, and I definitely don’t try to devalue everyone I get in a relationship with. The only people I’ve intentionally responded with mean things to are those who were actually narcissists I’ve encountered in my life. Does that make me a narc? Maybe? But if I don’t stick up for myself, those abusive and invalidating people will think it’s ok.
Be careful with that view. My ASD husband will often take my neutral comments as an attack and will "defend himself" by saying hurtful things to me. This happens especially when he's stressed about things at work or life in general, or if I have feelings about something.
It's very scary to talk to him now, as I never know what his response will be. I have been pushed away by his idea that he's "only hurtful to those who attempt to hurt me", which you also have.
He had me on his side but over a few decades has pushed me far enough away that I don't trust or like him. I'm still not going to betray him, but I keep well away.
@@er6730your husband sounds rather narcissistic based on your description
@@IntegrityMeansAll He's not really. We've actually been doing some counselling lately, and the main thing that he's working on is not staying in a situation when he's overwhelmed, and I'm supposed to not try to manage his emotions. It's been weird but good so far.
My ex was professionally diagnosed autistic but fit all of the symptoms of vulnerable narcissism as well (in my opinion, as someone who dated him for 8 months).
how do you know its not ODD or pda? or a cluster c or a personality disorder
@@asmrmetalman1061 There is no such thing as knowing when it comes to psychiatric disorders. They are all opinion based. You observe traits and symptoms, you assign a label to that collection of traits and symptoms. Your observation of someone's traits may differ from someone else's because people act differently with different people, and also it's impossible to know the underlying reasons for why a person displays certain traits and symptoms unless you are a psychic.
@@Retrosenescent The reason why I’m sceptical of your observations is that personality disorders in autism have been studied, and autistic people who have them are usually avoidant, schizoid, or obsessive compulsive, it’s extremely rare for them to be cluster b, also ODD can look allot like narcissism as well
@@asmrmetalman1061 It's actually not as complicated as you make it seem. There are certain criteria to be diagnosed with NPD, and you only need to exhibit 5 of the 9 possible criteria to receive the diagnosis. It doesn't matter if the criteria overlap with other things, such as ODD or PDA, it still constitutes a narcissistic pathology. I can say in the case of my ex, he was definitely not obsessive compulsive or schizoid. I actually have a friend who is autistic and schizoid, and he's mildly narcissistic as well, but mostly not pathologically narcissistic like my ex. My ex is exploitative, manipulative, controlling, demanding, gaslights, turns everything into a zero-sum game in which he needs to be the winner always, etc. His best friend has diagnosed BPD, and they have similar levels of manipulation, but the BPD friend has 0 self esteem and is codependent, whereas my ex is a total narcissist with delusions that he is the smartest, most capable, misunderstood genius while everyone else is inferior.
@@asmrmetalman1061 my ex is exactly what you describe. he had a lot of autistic and narcissistic traits. he is at the same time very schizoid, never met such a loner
after 20 years Im pretty sure my brother is covert narcissist. He´s EXTREME. I don´t want to see him ever again in my life.
Excellent! We've come so far! Hope everyone grasps this information, it would sure help ease the world!
This is the most helpful video I have heard on this! I've been trying to figure out a former partner for years. This has been terribly painful and has damaged my ability to trust.
Thank you for this I’ve been searching for this exact combination. I’m 59, (female) and last year I saw a video - 20 traits of autism in women so I thought ok I’ll watch it. I already thought perhaps my father was but he’s never been diagnosed. I watched it and I identified with 17 so then I went down that whole rabbit hole and I realize that I’m more than likely on the spectrum so it’s more than likely my father and also my son. anyway I’m in a relationship, with a man who I am just recently towards the end of 12 years discovered that he is a covert narcissist, and I went through the whole process that you all describe the gaslighting the confusion, and the change in my personality, the pushing away of the family, and he really didn’t show that side of it until I started to push back on him with the crazy stuff And that was kind of like two years ago in the middle of the pandemic, and it was just like OK I’m starting to see the picture a little better now. I was looking for this combination and thank you because you have exactly explained the difference and what I’m up against and why I’ve always been attracted to people like that narcissistic people. anyway thank you
NPD and ASD have virtually the same symptoms yet one we must tolerate while the other is evil incarnate. As an autistic person it's quite frustrating seeing "narcissists" scapegoated for the exact same symptoms that we autistic people are tolerated for. I frequently see autistic people claiming their parents are narcissists when it's much more likely their parents also have autism. Being higher functioning should not switch you from being an innocent victim of circumstance to being the scum of the Earth.
Why wouldn’t it be possible that some people have both? I know someone who is diagnosed with both by different doctors/psychologists and it seems to be very accurate in that specific person. Not everyone with autism is the exact same and often times a personality disorder occurs with another ‘disorder’ at the same time. Again this does not apply to all people with autism of course, just some.
Intentions.
An autist is born, a narcissist is made.
I'm on the autism spectrum myself, but I hardly identify with the slave morality of so many people with ASD, so it's really easy for me to recognize (and even like) my narcissistic traits. It's actually kinda funny seeing videos of autistic people acting all innocent and misunderstood while LITERALLY SPELLING OUT THEIR NARCISSISM in every sentence! (Especially their need to police others' language...)
So yeah... I only care about myself, I only see others as benefactors or parasites, I'm REALLY envious of normal people, I can't relate to 99% of people out there, I need positive feedback to feel good about myself, I deserve whatever I want, and I can be diabolically (and enthusiastically) cruel to people who are rude to me. It isn't an enjoyable experience in the least, but it gives me some much-needed edge to protect myself in this ruthless jungle of a society.
That was probably the most honest comment I have read under the type of videos-at least at first glance. Usually people indeed only describe how special and great but misunderstood they are. But do you really believe you’re autistic? If you really did you probably wouldn’t have chose the name “NPDemon” as your profile name. Just saying. Honesty is more respectable than deception. One more question: can you name some things you’re envious about and the 99% of things normal people do you can’t relate to? I’d really appreciate an honest response so I can understand better
@@IntegrityMeansAll I was diagnosed with ASD in 2014. I'd rather have dementia or terminal cancer, because at least those diseases end the suffering of their victims with death. Autism is lifelong and it's one intolerable day of agony after another, and given the humiliating reputation of it, I would rather be known as insane or evil (even though true clinical narcissists aren't as bad as described; it's the optics that make the difference).
My envy is universal and fundamental. I hate others for the simple fact that they exist, that they have autonomy and independence. The only reason we are talking right now is that my brain can be fooled into believing you don't exist except as a projection of my own internal landscape, or that you are the voice of a higher being speaking through an otherwise corrupt meatsuit.
If I'm being specific though? Others clearly function to a higher degree and with considerably less effort than me. In a properly balanced universe, my efforts would be rewarded with according levels of worldly influence and riches, but that's not how reality works. It's brutal, uncaring, unpredictable, and immovable. If God exists, he'll have to beg my forgiveness.
I would agree that the community is cringe. Never imagined myself on the progressive stack. Oh well, it is what it is. And talking about it like it's not a thing that's fundamentally wrong with you is just dishonest. No one would choose this crap.
Well so much for that. I have moderate intellectual disability and aspergers wouldn't apply to me. I have ASD with pragmatic social communication disorder. My mother dx npd, hpd traits. She was mean to me and hated me.
What is dx and hpd? And what is pragmatic social communication disorder exactly?
@@IntegrityMeansAll pragmatic social communication disorder is the socially inept part of autism. You can't read body language, social situations thus rendered socially impaired. NPD, HPD are narcissistic and histrionic personality disorders combined.my guess she is a vulnerable narcissist not grandiose display. She was diagnosed strong NPD and HPD traits.
@@birdlover6842 oh now I understand what you meant. I didn’t know what hpd stood for but thank you for explaining 🙂 you communicate very well btw, better than a lot of people so it seems like you overcame what you described? Or is it more in personal verbal interaction but the way you write is very clear and shows great communication skills 🙂 I know someone who also has ASP with comorbidity NPD and HPD. I always heard from people it’s rare to have ASP and NPD but according to psychologists non-neurotypical people can have comorbidities just like neurotypical people can have more than one personality disorder. Either way, have you experienced that or know someone like that? The person I used to know who had all 3 was what some people call “awkward” in social situations like rude, loud, inappropriate as well as not being able to have normal eye contact etc. Let’s say it was a meeting discussing some financial plan this person would stare at me in a nervous/frantic way instead of the person they that was talking to them even though it was a nice normal conversation. I don’t quite know how to describe it but it was very unusual. Or the person would shout out words in a very rude manner without forming a sentence when they wanted something (let’s say at store asking a clerk something) where no one truly understand what they meant but had to guess. Or bark at someone at some official dinner function and being insulting and behaving inappropriately. And what always baffled me was that this person was rather smart in other areas (2 degrees and a reputable profession). So I never truly understood why this person behaves that way. But then I figured it must have been likely due to their autism?
However at the same time that person was very deceptive, always lying about all kind of things that most normal/non-narc. people would not lie about. This pathological lying seemed rather unusual for autism from what I heard, so I was confused at first (before I knew more about the person and their personality disorders) if the person had autism or narcissism. The person also acted hysterical like would cry and rage in a very infantile way including in front of their little kids like in a borderline type of way. One of the kids of this person was also very problematic like severely borderline with several s. attempts, hospitalizations etc.
Anyway, I haven’t seen this person in a long time but I always wondered back then if their behavior was a personality disorder or autism or both until I realized it was both. This person got different diagnosis by different psychologists (they only went to see a psychologist as it was initiated by someone else and they had no other choice). IMHO based on all my experiences and having to deal with that person for years this person had all the diagnoses they received at the same time (NPD, ASD and borderline/histrionic) and the psychologist would have likely came to the same conclusion but they only showed up for 1-2 sessions, acted crazy and then never came to any of the therapy sessions again.
Long story short: Based on this experience over years with this person I do believe someone can have NPD, borderline, histrionic or another personality disorder in addition to ASD, it might not be that common to have both/more than 1 of those disorders but it’s not rare either from my research.
Imho it was their personality disorder though that made this person so hard/unbearable to be around, not their ASD.
I’d be curious what your honest opinion is in regards to that?
I apologize the message became so long
The term Asperger’s is very outdated! It baffles me how people are will avoid saying autistic people as though it’s a bad term! Listen to the autistic community!
It's true...although it seems as though the word 'Autistic' is interchangeable with 'severely disabled' people to a lot of people. My 94 year old mother went out if her way to disprove my 'autism' to my doctor during my autism assessment. She said later 'there is NO WAY one of my kids is retarded'. She said it like it was a good thing.
So there needs to be a distinction. My family reacts better to the word ASPERGERS. If I'd told her I was having a ASPERGERS or neurodivergent assessment it might have gone better...I spent over $600 for her to misdirect the psychologist because she was defensive.
So what is the exact difference?
@@IntegrityMeansAllIQ
@@lillypicadilly4048level one ASD