Recording Drums with an 8 Channel Interface
Vložit
- čas přidán 2. 01. 2023
- Affiliate link options below.
Please know that by using any of the links below helps me continue with the channel as if you choose to buy from any of the links below I will get a small commission.
Purchase All Sweetwater Gear Right HERE: - sweetwater.sjv.io/3erZRk
Purchase Gear from Thomann right Here: www.thomann.de/intl/thlpg_l58...
Purchase All Proaudiostar Gear Right HERE: - proaudiostarcom.z5dw.net/GmNRB2
Purchase All Seymour Duncan Pickups Right HERE: - seymour-duncan.sjv.io/baojzM
Purchase All East West Sound Gear Right HERE: - astoundcommercecorporation.sj... - Hudba
of course you can. You can record great sounding drums with 8 channels no problem.
Music is so subjective - I think you're missing the point here ~ he's giving experience, nuggets, and tools he's seen ( as a serious producer) in this video. I took these words seriously. That being said - sure you are correct for a certain sound..... Anyways thank you Bruce 🙏
Love your videos Barry learning alot from you!
I remember in the 70s, I could record a drum set with 4 mics. Of course, we were using an Ampex 4 track back then and tracked the whole band on a stereo pair.
Thanks for the video, Barry. I did a mix new year's weekend with two kick mics, two snare mic's, a floor tom mic, and two overheads. The artist gave me more tracks but I didn't use them. You can make a room pair with a reverb and a compressor on a bus and you can easily make the rack toms work through the overheads. More mics are great if you've got the inputs but you don't need 'em. Just throwing it out there. Regarding U87 Mics and API Mic Pres: You should be recording with whatever you've got. Don't wait until you have hyper expensive gear. Happy new year, Everybody.
I’ve been using 6 mics on drums for years and nobody has said a thing! 🤷🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️. From major artists and movies to local stuff! No complaints
I like using 4. Glynn John's style and I love the sound
Agreed 2-4 mics works just fine, IMO
Great information! Thanks for making this video.
I’m by no means a pro at this, but the experimentation of making it work without samples is worth the education.
I always used whatever I had at my disposal and for many years used 3 mics and they weren’t good ones. You learn to make it work, I’m pretty settled and confident at this point.
I agree, focus on the mics, enough good ones that you need to expand your IO to use them all at the same time.
I can live without tom mics and a bottom snare mic. D112 kick, WA47jr on the kick shell, JZ amethyst on snare (my good vocal mic), c414s as glyn John’s overheads and a Sphere L22 as a stereo room mic. I also skip the HH mic.
That’s 7 channels of IO and I can skip the room mics and run Oceanway studio as a parallel drum bus to get a close proximation of the room vibe. That’s 5 mics on the kit. I have the capability of using all 20 IO but 8 is enough for me as I’ll add a crush mic in as well.
Hi Barry! Several years ago, in my analog tape days, I tried the Glyn John’s method on drums. Move ahead several years and Earthworks came out with their 3 mic system for drums.
I can still use 421s,SM81 s, D12, etc, if that’s what they want.
But I guess I’m old school. I want to hear the entire kit as just 1 instrument. Overhead L, Overhead R and Kick drum. Mic placement is critical on the overheads. But the kit can sound great!!!!! (btw:I’m not endorsed by Earthworks just a fan of their mics)
Back in the day (2007-8) with my old home studio I used to track with just 8 channels: 1x kick, 1x snare, 1x hi hat, 2x overheads, 3x toms. The drummer used to really tune his drums fantastically well so they always sounded great. Not as fancy as today’s preferred techniques. I had an Octopre connected via ADAT to get an extra 8 inputs.
Try it with a single Adat way back in the day where you could only use 6 channels, then bounce those down to 7/8 and record the rest of the tracks over the drums in 1-6🤦♂️. I don’t miss those days, but we made music!
I record drums with 8 channels in the rehearsal room and use SD3 tracker to replace stuff... and there are 8 more channels (ADAT) for the rest of the band: 2 guitars, bass and 4 vocals... so there´s always the opportunity to live record "ok sounding" ideas and demos or putting a couple more mics on the drums to replace even the cymbals etc... later on guitars can be recorded using several mics ...and a D.I. signal for virtual amps...
it sounds good enough for punk rock, so... ;)
there are so many oppotunities for DIY recording these days...
1 Run a click track to length of song 2 have guitar play (reference) arrangement to that click. 3 now you have the 8th mic at your disposal 4 drummer tracks to reference/guitar click
Actually you can record drums with "one" well placed mic such as a Beyerdynamic M160, and/or drums can be recorded with just two well placed Overheads such as a pair of Coles Ribbon microphones. Done it plenty of times with amazing results. Check out Eric Valentines in-depth videos on recording drums.
True, but I’m sure you’d admit that’s not appropriate for most genres.
The way i approach triggers is by blending and not replacing . I send the kick for example on a new track and on that track i insert slate trigger and I try a sample to fill what i think is missing on the original source .
I will only replace if the source sounds awful.
Recording drums at home. Not for the faint of heart. Great Lesson Barry. I am at the start of learning how to do this after programming, using Steven Slate, EZDrummer, Drums on Demand, etc. Just controlling the rattles and bleed alone is a big task, not to mention proper drums and setup, effective monitoring, latency compensation, etc. I really should look at Trigger. Seriously. I also have been using a SDC on the hi-hat which does not sound like standard practice. Struggling with my AT822 stereo mic as a 'room/overhead' source a bit. Not sure I am digging my D112 on bass drum - sounds a little 'flubby'. So want to use real drums over programming as I am SICK of programming. Trouble is, I have to deal with an actual drummer LOL.
Very good content. Could you please continue doing videos about drums recording? Thank you
great video!
Great video, I agree with your suggestion to experiment with using 12 or more mics. I bought an X32 for live sound and recording purposes. My son is a drummer and I do live sound. He bought himself two 421's (only uses 2 toms) a D112, two 57's, and a matched pair of Rode m5's for up top. I have two AKG C1000's we used for under ride and hats. We also threw a cheap ribbon around in front of the kick and moved a KSM 32 around the room. Had a blast! Learned a ton. The mics are good. The pre's in my x32 are okay lol. It's the skills that we're learning. The expensive stuff will sound expensive if you have the skills lol. Cheers and Have a great 2023!
Steve, any thoughts on getting a good sound (assuming bass drum is tuned/prepped properly) out of the D112 without monkeying with in the mix? I struggle. I might swap out for an Audix for a little more punch. I suppose I could use my 441 (yes more of a vocal mic but I've used it on cabs). Haven't tried though.
@@trebleboost7 Honestly, I find the D112 not so great for recording. I was just given some advice I'd like to try though. After finding the fundamental note of the drum via RTA, start knocking out the octaves of that fundamental with narrow q's. Maybe 4 to 6 db. So a fundamental of 60hz would have octaves at 120 and 240hz. Maybe even notch the 480 octave. I heard it done to a couple of tom tracks and I was amazed at the results. Other than that, I don't have much to offer. I love the d112 live. I'm kinda shocked it did so poorly recording. I'm still learning so I may find the right placement for it eventually lol. Do you do live sound only or are you recording to?
Sometimes I like to experiment with room mikes, bottom snare and side snares. Only then I miss the extra inputs. Sometimes I wish to live record my bandmates, but than I have to use 12 or more
Hi Barry, first of all I love the chat on your channel. Secondly, I am huge NP fan, so kudos for talking about the GOAT Rock Miester!
I am a drummer and have my own home studio for specifically recording drums for my own band and other people using Toontrack's SD3 (I’m sure Steven Slate Drums work and others just as well) and a Roland TD30 kit - since I don't have a "Pro studio" space for recording real drums.
I must admit that with "careful" manipulation, SD3 "can" achieve an uncanny realistic drum recording by either playing the kit (which I do) or programming them using either the groove function or devising your own parts as Toontrack use actual real samples and dedicated room mics that were recorded in Pro studio's to suit any particular style of music.
This system allows me to connect my kit directly into my Mac and use SD3 without the need for additional hardware and also negates the need for expensive studio time.
I am not saying that you shouldn't use a "real" drummer playing real drums in a studio (always important to keep us all gainfully employed!); but it is a workaround for some people on a budget that want good sounding drums.
I just wanted to run that past you and your subscribers for comment and ask if anyone else is doing the same for their recordings?
Your method is a very common ones for Drummers with limited options like Mic's, Pre's, Room, Space etc so by all means continue. The main point about using acoustic drums, is the Drummer (You) that makes the difference. Drummers are a rare breed in that they can imagine things, fills, alternative beats, etc, that non drummers struggle with. That's a generic statement, but I've found it to be true for most. Your skill as a drummer is the single most important part of my main point. Hope that makes sense!
@@BarryJohns
Hi Barry yes, thanks totally get your point. Real drummers rock!
It was just to give your subscribers an option to think about using their own drummer (or hired drummer) to record in their studio using something like Steven Slate or Toontrack (I don't endorse any of them) as an alternative to going into an expensive the studio ( we all know how that cost can mount up!).
I have recorded for many people using this method and they have all been happy with the results..
Looking forward to your next topic - they are great to watch!
Allan
Great information thank you . I have a scarlet 18i20 running a shure drum mic set any advice ? Seems im getting uneven mic sound meaning one louder than the other .
6:24 The God's truth!!!!!! Room, room treatments, and mic placement. KEY!!!!!
Hey how are you I have a question how do you feel about Antelope Studio Orion on Drums ?
I only recorded drums and it was with 8 channels through my RME.
Hindsight I made some mistakes... 😀
The two most important ones were, that the drummer convinced me to use him mic set which he had for live drumming instead of my few mics, which was a terrible loss in quality, and second, he was an amazing drummer, but having cheap cymbals... they sound awful, and we should have lend some for the recording. The two crashs were... 😕
There is also a good work around triggering afterwards - which I did.
There´s some function Audio to Midi and you "only" need to do some settings like gate and hi cut to filter most crap away and then easily get a clean and perfect midi file for snare and kick.
Omg love that background 😊 forget about 8 channels back in the day we recorded the whole band on a 4 track reel, these kids today are so entitled. 😆
Me too😜
That's why I use a Behringer XR18
I record drums with just 7 channels as I always replace/augment kick drum and snare sometimes and my drums sound great! I use trigger to double/augment!
I cover all that in the video😁
I've spent HOURS trying to figure out how to set up triggers using Gate and EZDrummer 3 and I cannot for the life of me figure out how to do it. Do you have any sort of guide for setting up in studio one?
Absolutely!
8 channel interface video but you dont show any interface? Where are the cables going?
Let me start by saying that your channel is by far my favorite and I catch nearly every episode, so I am by no means trying to sling peanuts from the nosebleed section. That said, I have been recording drums with 7 mics with using a Tascam Model 12 interface (definitely not high end press or converter) and I’ve gotten wonderful results. Nothing is more important than meticulously tuned drums with fresh batter heads. If you have those two things, you’re 80% there for a good capture. If the kit sounds like poop, it doesn’t matter what gear you have or how good the drummer is. Just my two cents.
True
I am very lucky in that the music that I write and record, I like a raw drum sound and I don't mind if they distort or clip while recording. With a proper mixer and mic placement (and with the use of decent microphones) I'm able to achieve a decent drum sound on a very old 8 track cassette machine. And I have a great sounding room in my wide open, acoustically enhanced basement. I can't stress proper mic placement using decent drum mics and that outboard mixer enough. Extremely important with these little portastudios. And don't look to achieve a polished, pop sounding recording...if you like a lo-fi sound (I don't mean bad sounding or any old on board mic sound...there is a huge difference) but yeah, that good lo-fidelity sound is quite achievable with a little bit of knowledge.
And as far as the mic set up with that 4 track outboard mixer...I use 2 overheads, a bass drum and an ambient room mic placed out front, about 8-10 feet out. Then I will always place a little bit of reverb and just a touch of echo...this will achieve a decent alternative/punk/garage rock sound
How do u feel about warm audio preamps on drums maybe the 412 or 73
412 is great for the money, I have several.
@@BarryJohns thanks
Of course you can record drums with an 8 channel interface. First of all, 99.7% of songs don’t need a 5 pc kick. 1 up 1 down is more than enough for anything other than metal. You really don’t NEED two overheads. Just go Mono overhead, Stereo Room or the other way around… 1 kick mic pointed at beater, then make an aux with a sub plug-in on it. I lost interest in elaborating further but you get the idea. Experiment, play around and figure it out.
I would love to see more 10 or 12 input interfaces
I think RME and antelope
My Profire and Celesonic have extra inputs (x2) but without a pre. I have even MTC'D/SPC to an AKAI DPS16 and flew in the tracks post. Don't really plan to do this though going forward, but it is there if I absolutely have to. Right now I am kind of all set up with no place to go. Will see what happens in 2023.
I could have missed something, but it seems like some of the logic in using trigger is at odds with your preamp advice.
If you only have a couple of high quality preamps, and you are going to use trigger, shouldn’t those preamps go on the overheads because of triggers inability to make great cymbals?
Did you watch the entire video? Because I cover this. I specifically say if you’re going to use trigger, you don’t need to worry about the mic or preamp. Later I also recommended that you actually learn the art of recording drums, and when you get to that point, that’s when you need to consider upgrading mics and preamps.
My channel requires really watching an entire video to truly benefit from it. I realize not everybody’s gonna give it that much attention, but for those at one solid perspective on things, it kind of requires that. There’s a lot of variables on a lot of things to consider this thing we call recording music.
No SM57 on toms? Why not?
I usually use vintage 57's for toms.
I should have worded that differently. Like I said in the video, there are no rules, but there are rule of thumbs, meaning standard practices that have proven to work. If you are happy with the results, then by all means continue to do so, that said, once you track with something like an AKG 414 or Sennheiser 421 on toms, you will quickly see the benefit. SM57's can be great for some things, but they don't capture the lower mids that are desirable in Toms, there tends to be too much cymbal bleed with them as well. Here is a good list that cover any price point for toms. If you know anyone who has any of these mics, give it a try, I'm confident you'll be pleased.
gearspace.com/board/best-studio-gear/1149743-ten-best-microphones-record-tom-tom-drums.html
@@BarryJohns OK, I'll give them a go. Thanks for the feedback! I do have a pair of 421 to try.
I always want my soul on my recording so i always want to be authentic as possible and not use much samples butttttttt.. since i have a not so good bass drum mic the trigger comes in handy then the rest is raw sound
On my last death/doom metal album TAU, I managed to record drums fairly well with only 8 mics : 4 toms, 2 on snare, and 2 overheads. The kick was triggered and for the room I used the UAD Ocean Way plug-in. Turned out well I think.
It is surprising how dynamic and excellent EZ Drumer 3 can work. Generally it is better than most live drum recordings.
two overheads... 1 bass drum... 2 tom mics (one mic per 2 toms,)... top and bottom snare mics... 1 hi-hat mic. 8 mics. How is that not doable?
Lots are doable, however to properly do it, most drum sets have 3 toms, kick is best with a mic on beater as well as one on the outer skin, two overhead mics, and 1 room mic,
Room mic... knew I forgot something. I have 10 channels, but have a separate digital mixer I could create sub mixes with for channels 9 and 10. All kinds of options.@BarryJohns
I don't agree with allot with what you say, it depends so much on the sound you want, s saying recording in a garage is a bad sound...... There's so much more than what your saying
I think you missed the point. Can you get by recording drums with eight channels, yes, I can tell you back in the days I had to get it done with four channels. That said if you want to learn how to properly Mic a set of drums, you will need more than 8 channels. so it depends on someone’s perspective, and what they’re trying to achieve. I would never recommend anyone settling for gor channel of drum tracks, but I would say to them, do that if it’s the best you can do.
You are not explaing how to record with just a 8 channel you are going into other more expensive options which some of us cannot afford you can record drums and get wonderful results with basic gear and cheaper mikes you do not need triggers how you say so in summary my point here is your only really talking about yourself.
There are so many variables no way to cover the different type of needs. Jazz band vs metal, very different needs. Triggers are not recording drums, it’s recording MIDI data and you have the bigger issue of cymbals. Again o could go on and on. I do talk about TJ’s. Challenge. The video is not about how to record drums but rather how many channels is beat to do it. It assumes a person Already knows how to basically get it done. Again no way to cover everything in a short video.
I think recorded drums are WAYYYYYY and I repeat way, can I underline way? over hyped. Sorry drummers but as a singer/guitarists/keyboardist/bassist/songwriter its always been a rub for me to create a great song and simply need a nice beat to tie it all in and we go to the studio and spend half our money on setting up the drums and getting them to sound just right only to never really think we accomplished that and still end up putting them in the back of the mix so we never really hear all those nuances that they worked so hard on. Sorry guys just my take. Ive never heard a drum beat and say wow thats a hit song. That said, drummers are amazing and a VERY needed partner in the song making process. Without that perfect beat then the song can not succeed to its highest potential. But I think drums are the most over rated recording money pit in todays world. My drummer would write out his drum parts in EZ drummer and theyre perfect. Anything not right we could then go to the studio and tweak. Sorry! 2cents