2025 Toyota Camry Review // The $30,000 King
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- čas přidán 25. 04. 2024
- The 2025 Toyota Camry XSE AWD ($36,125 in the US, $44,250 in Canada) is new for this model year and with it comes a four-cylinder hybrid engine making 225 horsepower. All wheel drive is optional on any trim, which adds a dedicated electric motor in the rear and reaches 232 horsepower total. It has also seen some work done on its suspension and braking systems to try and improve the ride and comfort. But does this new Camry live up to the high bar of unobtrusive normalcy set by its predecessors? And how does it compare to its competition? Thomas and James are excited to find out! We hope you enjoy the episode! And then subscribe, silly.
Editor: Karston Chong
Sound: Harrison Dickson and Karston Chong
Magical Genius Logistics Planners: James Engelsman and Joey Alford
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#Toyota #Camry #Hybrid - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Ok so the fact that I clicked on a Camry video and watched it is 100% due to my loving you two. 😂
What has more money and R&D put into it? A Camry or Mclaren?
A Camry. Even though they are mass produced they are quite amazing.
Otherwise, the video was just... normal.
Same
You too, huh?
Spot on, lol. At most the only other curiosity pulling me about this video having driven a 2001 Camery not long ago. And a V6 at that😎 Interesting what a near quarter-century does for design.
I unironically love Camrys. Both my parents drove Camrys while growing up, my first car was a hand-me-down Camry that racked up 280 thousand miles over its life. The first car I got myself was a Mustang, and after endless repairs and plowing through fuel (and honestly I realized that I'm a car person in theory but don't actually want something designed for performance as a daily driver) I went back to a Camry. It's got great fuel efficiency, it's comfortable, it's familiar, and it's reliable as fuck. I may have other cars in the future, but my primary will always be a Camry.
What year Camry do you have?
If your not ... enough for a BMW the Camry is perfect. It's a good car, that does what cars should do. I wonder why the U.S. government hates it?
@@michaelblaes9847 I'm ... enough for a BMW - I wouldn't buy one, because they are junk & my time is valuable - don't have time to be constantly taking a piece of junk in to the dealer to get stuff that wasn't engineered properly fixed all the time.
Pretty much my story. I’m past the Camry now I’m in a 23 Venza limited.
@@petermacdonald6332why the limited😂😂😂 its a venza. No need to state the trim..u aint getting additional points brother man or sis
“I’m not saying 7inch is small.” cracked me up! 😂
ikr hahaha
lol he lays down with a lot of men so he knows that 7 inch is above avg LOL
@@sachinnair91they strait and married not lgtb
7 inch is too much
@@doughboygee6865 come to Atlanta. The gayest men are married to oblivious women 😂
I went with a 10th gen accord because I'm 6'5", headroom is super good and the seat gets nice and low. Harrison is my hero for being a tall man representative!
Team Harrison! We'd have a lot more options if we were short. 6' would do nicely.
hey, at least you have a long line of women waiting to sleep with you wherever you go because you're tall. Women love tall men and hate short men
Yuck. Honda and its obsession with that weak fastback slope and its pathetic 1.5 - 2.0 L engine sizes. The Accord died with Gen 9: the last powerful and well designed version.
@TheWayBesst 9th gen will probably be my all time favorite accord . Best looking one and the last of the beautiful j series v6 😢. 2.0 l turbo is quicker and has better tuning options, but that sound of the v6 was music to the ears 👂
@@TheWayBesstthe 2.0t is the modern k series. Way under rated
The paddle shifts were cracking me up. You are always entertaining to watch especially when it’s a car I don’t care about myself and still watch says something. Great channel fellas.
That’s why I like that the paddles control regen braking in my Ioniq Hybrid, but in sport mode it does actually control the transmission. Though it makes slightly more sense in my car since Hyundai gives their hybrids a 6 speed DCT rather than a CVT.
@@General_Mis paddles control also fit on KIA Picanto?
Useless paddles 😂
This is the same in Honda's hybrid lineup and it makes perfect sense. Why Toyota hasn't implemented that same feature seems odd. I have a 2022 CRV Hybrid and I can basically drive the car around town with one pedal driving using the regen paddle to slow me down. It doesn't bring the car to a complete stop but it's a fun game to play to try and time a stop light and get as close to stopped as you can before you have to apply any brakes.
Since there's only one gear (CVT) why would there be paddle-shifts????
I'm watching Throttle House!
on a camry :/
Yes you are :)
@@damienfrizzell9394wish if it was on 2007 Ford Fusion.
I thought it was Extra Throttle house
what's that?
I have a 2013 Camry with 300K miles never broke down! With regular maintenance and care it will drive for ever!
I have 2001 Camery. Like a bowl of vanilla ice-cream. PLAIN and simple and will go almost forever.
You guys go over so many cars and one thing I would like to suggest is 30 seconds to talk about the "driver comfort" or "driver fatigue reducers". I ended up having a rental Toyota with Lane Track Assist while on a trip and it was such an improvement from other brands that just "help you not move invade" other lanes. I remember feeling much less tired when compared to the same distance traveled with our vehicle. If we want the auto makers to start making our lives better, this is the type of feature that we could highlight when comparing to other vehicles on the same segment. Thanks for all the amazing videos.
did you just have a normal intro 😳
Makes sense. Normal intro for a normal car. To talk about how normal it is.
it's a Camry ...lol
I was so bummed. But figures.
An offensively normal intro.
A normal intro for a normal car
Toyota is doing the right thing by hybridizing and AWD’ing everything
Agree
AWD is not really required in a lot of places and adds cost and complexity, just like the hybrid system.
Not entirely true
@@aygwm its not a true "AWD" in that its just an extra electric motor for the back wheels that can be used. The gas engine cannot power anything but the front wheels. It has a lot less max power available on the back wheels vs the front.
@aygwm your comment shows you know nothing about either system and you are talking out your ass 😂
In the last two weeks, I have re fallen in love with this channel.
The chemistry between James and Thomas has been impeccable the last few years.
We get a Tenacious D reference at 9:00, and James is like, "c'mon Thomas, no cheesy jokes." lol.
Glad I caught it
No one can destroy The Metal!
Only you 2 could make me watch a video about/aboot a Toyota Camry. Damn you!
Gold.🤣
Toyota Camry 2015 and 2025 are equally good.
I'd much rather watch a video of a Toyota Camry than watch a video of a Ferrari, BMW, or McLaren. At least I can afford the Camry. If I can't afford the car, then any video on it becomes super boring!!
Thiiiiiiiis Is the all new Camry
More and more Lexus styling is looking Toyota styling or vice versa
3:48 Awesome that the camera man caught both enemies at the same spot
ITS SUPER EFFECTIVE.
or should you say Camry man😮
@@henryvu725 That pun was terrible. Loved it!
@@henryvu725 😭😁😆
Great shot
It being a hybrid, I'm pretty sure the paddle shifts are for the brake regen. I have it on my CRV Hybrid. It's only activated when you're NOT accelerating. Get with the program guys! Love your channel!
Yes in hondas it does that. However in Toyotas it doesn't, it's just a "suggestion" in what ratio to be in during not full throttle acceleration, mainly though it's used for engine braking, not motor Regen, it stays the same
The shot of the Camry next to a sign that says "Kelp" is perfect.
It's a no thrills reliable everyday car. Nothing more and nothing less. I like how Toyota finally has a design identity, here were some Toyotas that had somewhat of a design language but it was dry and not all Toyotas had it.
A very poor design language. They really uglied this thing up compared to the last generation. 😢
The mid-size sedan market has been shrinking steadily for 2 decades now. It's basically this and the Accord. The rest fight over scraps. The Camry has been the King in this class for a long time (in terms of volume of sales) and these changes should ensure it remains that way. It's not a sports car, it's not a muscle car, so as long as you don't go in expecting an M3 on a budget, you'll be fine. If you want a regular family sedan that will be the most reliable vehicle on the planet and actually be worth something when you sell it in 10 years, you can't lose. The Camry is likely THE pick in the class.
@@jeffer1101 Plus it's fast too! A 2023 Dodge Charger SXT with the V6 has a zero to sixty of 6.5 seconds. 2025 Camry LE AWD gets 6.5 seconds too due to the lighter weight and more power
@@sachinnair91charger sxts aren’t fast. They weigh 5350 pounds without a driver. Thats more than the Chrysler minivan weighs with the same engine. A dodge minivan from 2015 is faster than the new Camry and charger. 6.5 to 60 is just not fast anymore. It never really was we were just deprived in the 80s. High end muscle Cars in the 60s did sub 5 seconds to 60
@@Mr-furley 0-60 times on any non-sports car is a fool's game spec. Next time you are at the lights in your city, floor it when the light turns green. You'll look like a fool and have to let off the throttle to avoid excessive speed after a few seconds or you'll end up smashing into the vehicle in front of you. Your regular driving around town likely equates to a 0-60 time (although, do likely won't go that fast in town) of about 15-20 seconds. Marketing people convinced people that 0-60 times are an important metric when buying your next vehicle. They are meaningless on anything other than a sports car. If you care about 0-60 times, get a 911 Turbo S.
0:58 "And we thought that a Camry would be the perfect car."
Yeah, right, I bet that's exactly what you thought 😂😂😂
2:24 "... At least it moves!"
I know one thing though. Previous gen V6 Camry prices are going thru the roof now. Thx Toyota for keeping up with the downsizing trend...
@@TermlessHGW Damn, what engines will Lotus use now?
@TermlessHGW what downsizing, 2,5L 4 cylinder is not downsizing. The gr yaris has a 3 cyl with less displacement and more hp
@@roteroktober360 From a 3.5l V6 to 2.5l l4. That's not downsizing? Yaris is a completely different type of car.
Thank you guys for cramming so many reviews into this trip. You deserved a day of normalcy.
The only channel on CZcams that can get me to watch a Camry video.
👍
I had the V6 for a decade and I’ve had a hybrid for 4 years. Besides missing the occasional full throttle activation on the V6 (which only really felt quick from a rolling start due to limited low down torque) I’ve really not missed the V6 at all.
Interestingly the hybrid acceleration from 60mph shows plenty of go at full throttle which I found recently when I took it into the outback and had to pass the double trailer trucks we get out here.
It’s a comfortable daily with a pleasant shape to the eye. I have no regrets about picking one for family hauling duties.
I should add that I did 1000kms (600miles) in a day on some of the worst roads in the modern world (we’d had a lot of unseasonal rain in the outback and the roads were suffering as a consequence with large potholes and wash aways) and I got out feeling totally fresh.
I also did that 1000km trip with just 45L of petrol (12US gallons)
hybrids also have a lot of low end torque so they feel great to drive in low speed city driving situations, unlike the V6 where you need to wring out the motor to get speed
@@sachinnair91 "Great" is highly relative.
But V6 should feel smoother than a 4 cylinder no?
For 300 hp the last v6 was slow for what it was.
The Camery is definitely one of the cars of all time
I see what you did there 😅
I think that more accurately describes the Subaru Legacy.
That interior is nicer than $100,000 Teslas.
Love yall! Simply put thank you for all the entertainment and info on our passion for cars.
It’s very car, indeed.
I do like the styling a lot. I think it’s a nice evolution.
It will go down as one of the cars in history.
James upshifts:
Toyota Camry: eeeeeeeeeh
That was the eCVTs contribution to the review. Drone.
@@cbotten106 was quite aware.
Emphasis on the foolery.
Lmao
I can't tell you how much I look forward to your videos, between you and Matt Armstrong I get my car fix. I look forward to your videos so much that I want you to track one of my cars!
Who’s already watched other camry’s reviews but still watch this cux its Throttle Houseeeeeeee❤
An i-Force max TRD Camry AWD with 437hp would be wild
Yeah 💥💥
Never gonna happen
Well thinking and wishful with that but that will never ever happen
@@drunksquirrel2051 why you gotta ruin a fantasy with reality sheeeeeesh
@@andrewjarvis7777 cause real life sucks
You guys should do vlog type of content with your cars too, after the 'old' top gear and the grand tour, u guys are the best imo. I would be so happy if you guys follow their path. Whole crew is doing amazing job. Keep it going.
Been waiting for this review for a long time. So glad you guys did this
You guys have a great sense of humor. Great channel!
My first car was a Corolla and my second car was a Camry... While I loved the normalcy of those cars, it always left me yearning for more excitement. When I drove my Camry into the ground, I went out to test the latest Camry hoping for more "new", but just couldn't find it. Maybe one day I'll ride in another Camry again when I call an Uber, but I don't think I'll ever own another one.
Should upgrade to a Lexus. If your still wanting a Toyota Camry with more excitement.
They always feel numb to me. I find the equivalent Hondas provide more driving enjoyment.
have you tried test driving a GTI?
You should test drive the Honda Accord
I c... you grounded to the ground!
Every video you guys do puts the biggest smile on my face I don't even care about the vehicle anymore... This is the only channel that I get excited to see.😊
I haven’t watched more than two minutes and it’s already so good! As always 😀
Holy cow, Hoist the Colors is awesome! Thanks James!
Hoping for a TRD version. I'm not gonna lie but I've always liked the styling of the TRD Camry, even the modern ones. I don't expect them to be fast, just to look sleek and sporty for a reasonable price point.
Camry TRD version probably gonna have 25bhp more than stock Camry.
@@purwantiallan5089 I don't even care about its power numbers, honestly, it's just the styling that I liked most. If you're buying a TRD Camry to race or go fast that's kinda... 😅😂🤣 Know what I mean?
There will probably be a gr version with a turbo 4 cylinder but prices may or may not break the bank even more so than the gr corolla
The 8 speed is a mess though. It can get confused at times and it is mostly tuned for fuel economy. A dual clutch or a 6 speed manual borrowed from elsewhere would have probably been better.
@@Userxxx840 yeah but that's really what you buy a Camry for is the fuel economy. Having a transmission unique to just the TRD wouldn't make any financial sense for the manufacturer. If you want a snappier car, the GR Corolla would probably be the go-to
Love when you guys go to work out in California, you always pick some beautiful scenic roads and backdrops. Keep up the good work.
I just want to say that y’all’s videos are helping me through a rough patch of my life.
I know a channel is great when I will watch it when I have zero interest in the car u are reviewing. You guys are the best
Exactly the recipe they're gonna use for the "new" Rav 4. I'd bet it'll have the same powertrain and drive options, subtle exterior changes, improved interior and a $2500 price hike.
2004 RAV 4 also equally banger like the new RAV 4.
damn, how do they know im watching throttle house 🤯
Toyota Corp. is in media launch madness lately. Glad you guys are in on it (can't believe they let Thomas Hammond drive).
Subaru Legacy, the unsung hero of the universal Japanese sedan. The Camry awd electric rear motor stops working above 8 mph Subaru is full time awd, the legacy has quite a bit more rear headroom it comes standard with adaptive headlights and a 12 inch touchscreen. All for $29k US.
I noticed the average mpg in the video was just under 31mpg, my 2023 legacy has 62,000 miles of Uber driving and I average exactly the same, this is not a hybrid car BTW.
Any of the cars you mentioned are pretty good, Camry, Accord, Sonata,K5, Altima but none of them can match the value for money of the Subaru.
Get it while you can! The 2025 is the last year for the Legacy.
I’ve been waiting for this car review! Thank you I’ll enjoy
2025 Camry is 8.9/10.
Wow, so cool, I've been watching you guys for years and to see you in my neighborhood, Coronado in San Diego, Smugglers Run/ Highway 94, place where I've driven my car & motorcycle many times & off-roading in those mountains.
Wow - a "normal" intro into a "normal" car review of a "normal" car. LOL for carrying the schtick all the way through. 😃
Also, rock on for liking/using Hoist the Colors - that's a badass track. 🤘🤘
Had to comment for the Tenacious D reference
Man, literally same here. Hopped on my phone instantly to say something, cause anyone else who gets a tenacious d reference is immediately my friend.
Made me giggle for sure. 😂
The "paddle shifters" aren't for sporty gear changes, they're basically for adjusting regen braking for downhill mountain driving.
Is this true?
@@angelgjr1999 No. For some reason people think one brand/ model does it the other brand/ model does it too
I am blown away that Thomas would even consider having a Camry on the show lol
The Tenacious D Reference is god tier, good shit James.
That's a pretty normal review! I loved it! 🤣
Jack of all trades, master of none perfectly describes this car. Which is good 👍🏾
getting 50 plus mpg while also getting a zero to 60 of under 7 seconds sounds like a master of all trades to me!!
@@sachinnair91 fair enough
Master of reliability for sure, and that's all most people want
@@sachinnair91 Why would someone care about 50 MPG vs 35 MPG if they are already paying 30k, woulda rather had a more reliable V6 getting 30 MPG and a sub 6 second 0-60. I don't think i've ever drove a car this slow but the old V6 is faster than my last car (slower than my 2.0T)
@@Dr.Curly2099 7 second 0-60 is pretty sad tbh
I had a Camry in the mid 80's with a 5 speed manual. It was actually fun to drive.
My father had one in the early 90's and all the fun was gone.
The Tenacious D reference was *chef's kiss*.
Also, Ocean Gem almost could've been swayed to Ocean Man.
Either way, Uber's are going to way better now. And I'm okay with that. Now they should make GR Camry for the hell of it
You can tell how exciting the car is by their joking and laughter. And just look at the size and thinness of the brake discs tells you a lot about the car.
9:03 is that a Tenacious D reference!? 😂
just the best car review channel ever made
i have 2019 camry 2.5 engine with adaptive cruise control and i really love this car
Thomas : I like the V6.
James :yeah, well it's gone.
Thomas : I know. It's sad.
I felt that.
Ren Hazuki to Thomas and James: I like both the V6 and V8.
45 thousand dollars for a Camry is crazy.
Accord too. Definitely diminishing returns on higher trims with manufacturer scalping post-COVID. Worse build quality and quality control too.
Done with the COVID excuse. This Camry is still nicer then the Ford 500/Accord.
@@savethemanuals1597 Who is excusing anything on COVID? Post-COVID just means since 2020. If you want to argue manufacturers aren't scalping or putting out worse quality vehicles, then maybe you'd be saying something relevant to his point.
The Camry will last 400000 miles. Stick with your cyber truck. 😂
@@jconner3891 I highly doubt any modern car will last 400000 miles to the point that it's not economically correct to get a new car though...
So far we will have to see .
Made me go listen to the tuba man. Just the most entertaining car reviews on CZcams
9:03 the out of the blue Tenacious D referenece killed me 🤣
SE trim for me ..❤❤
Looks better than previous gen and definitely looks waaaaay better than the ACCORD onside out
Can’t stop thinking about the Accord, huh?
I think a lot of people like myself had the accord in mind as as a potential next car but then saw the redesign and was completely disappointed in it. @@ajlee6933
@@ajlee6933it is ugly and looks old from every angle
You all should do your next video (whichever car it is) swapping yourselves. James' plays Thomas, and Thomas plays James.
I'm sure you can make this way more interesting than it actually sounds, just felt it was a nice idea.
That be funny to switch
Could be interesting for future TH episodes.
Jack black is very happy that you recognize that metal did in fact emerge victorious! Lol great review as always gents, keep em coming
Throttle House > Top Gear
well the current Top Gear CZcams channel that is. I can't finish watching a video from them nowadays, even if it's an exclusive
That’s been true for like 5 years
I have a 2013 with 208000 miles on it and it still drives like new. Only normal routine maintenance and it never lets me down. People dog on the Camry for being plain and boring, but I find it plenty fun to drive as I’m cruising past the repair shops I never need to visit. It’s one of the few cars left that is as comfortable to drive as an old Oldsmobile.
Great normal review on a car that is the perfect example of a car I'm going to listen to hoist the colors now
Camry? You mean Crown?
Crown in Japanese but this one won't sell in Japan
Toyota Camry 2025 looks similar indeed to Crown Victoria.
Crown replaces Avalon, while this is the new version of Camry
No it's a Camry. Crown is a different Animal. They are usually FR layout. Look up Crown Athlete and Majesta.
@@KuroRyuu86it’s a reference to a previous video where James and Thomas pointed out that every Toyota is a crown.
Is this a test? See if your audience will click on anything? It worked.
Abarth and Viper bashing on Toyota reviews. Keep it up!
ANOTHER BANGER!
Camry looks like the Gen 7 NASCAR CAMRY.
2:24 Noticed that lovely silver LX near you. Is that your camera car?
Well probably it is the camera car.
Probably…they had an LX and a Ranger Raptor with them when they did the Land Cruiser video just before filming this.
OMG such a good Tenacious D reference. Love it.
Hey guys, this video is fun and informative, as usual! Wishing all a great weekend! ✌️
This review was so normal that I couldn’t finish it
Nice shout out to Tenacious D!!!
Fantastic review friends. I’ve always owned Camrys so I was super stoked to see this video. Love it.
How do you use the paddle shifter on a Toyota Camry?
If you're in Drive Mode and pull one of the paddle shifters, the transmission will switch to manual operation temporarily. To keep it in Manual Mode, move the shift lever left, into the "M" position. Pulling the 'plus' paddle on the right upshifts to the next higher gear. Use the 'minus' paddle to downshift.
This double stripe headlight fad is getting funny. Everyone is following the herd 😂
Who started it? Lol ..bmw?
@@blakeogeris2494Pfft gotta go more back than that. They didn’t start that. 😂 I remember them ugly Cherokees with the split lights
hyundai@@blakeogeris2494
@blakeogeris2494 BMW don't do it (excepts for their recent EVs and Hybrids etc, but I hate New BMWs). Ever since Hyundai created the latest Genesis, everyone is doing it. Ferrari, Subaru, Toyota, Nissan, Renault, Jeep, Hyundai, Ford etc etc.
@mattyb1624 yea that's right! I couldn't put my finger on it.. yea it's not really good look.. a lot of car manufacturers are having the headlights pretty much at the bumper grill area and having the daytime running lights where the headlights should be
30k king but video car is 40k. I get press cars usually are higher trims but no one is buying a stripper Camry L, normally they go to the LE or SE, and I'm betting the average price with delivery will be 35k for most Camrys
Stripper models are for fleet and taxis/Uber
They don’t make the L anymore. It starts at the LE
This is a "cleanse the palet" video! You guys are great! Always entertaining!
Tenacious D reference was fucking awesome.
But it was just a tribute
19” wheel? Really? I swear Toyota and Lexus pick the least common/most expensive wheel/tire size available. Why not round to 18 or 20?
A lot of yota reviews lately, I like it! How about Mitsubishi? Since we're on a 4cyl spree... Maybe an Outlander? I'd love to hear your review on it. Keep up the good work!
Hoist the Colours by Bass Singers (The Wellerman) is wild. Thanks for introducing me to a new music genre, I didn't have that expectation coming into this vid.
This Camry is a bit expensive, though. I wonder how many sales they will lose to the new, very inexpensive, and reputedly fairly impressive Chevrolet Trax, among other vehicles.
Let's go Friday!
Zero interest in a Camry, but I have to watch every episode. Just so so good. Keep it up guys.
I put 8,000 miles on a 2023 gas Camry last year as a rental and it was fantastic in every way. Comfortable, roomy, and 35-38 mpg on the highway.
“AWD…. eat shit Honda Accord”
Classic.
The V6 is way overrated IMO. Inefficient, not very refined, have to rev it out to get good power, and no more reliable than Toyota 4-cylinder hybrids. This is such a better powertrain for 99% of Camry buyer.
Agree. None of those so called high performance v,6 Camry very really sporty or even fast . Fact is it never really put that power to road.
Transmission sucked
But you’ll get no converts.
I’ll stick to my trd keep telling yourself that 😂
@@jaimeb6873 all good if you like it - I know it has its fans. My comment is based on years of driving that V6 in my wife's Lexus. It hasn't given us problems, it's just an old engine that doesn't offer much vs competition IMO.
Are the "paddle shifters" actually for adjusting the level of the regen braking? I think there's a car like that but can't remember what it was.
I can never justify buying a camry new, but that design is 🔥
I like the previous version better. Lexus's SUVs go the similar exterior this time but I think look more cheap.
The previous gen Camry was amazing and looked amazing you guys are a bit daft when it comes to style. But this new Camry looks more like a Prius in the front
I thought it looked like a Kia or Hyundai. The front is ugly, but the back isn't too bad. Maybe it will grow on me, but thinking a big no.
Without question, one of the cars ever made 🙌
My favourite car I ever owned was a 2014 Camry. I leased it and my parents bought the lease when it ended as they needed a car. It is still flawless. Yes it’s not going to thrill you but yes it’s the best built car I have seen. If I ever go back to a car I bet it will be a Camry.
The styling is nice but hybrid only option sucks. Gonna miss the v6 option with the automatic transmission.
You can always pick up a certified pre-owned Camry with a V6. Or for a couple of grand more, a Lexus ES 350.
Or Toyota could place the 2.4L turbo ( hybrid) they have in this.
This engine pretty much makes it obsolete. It's just as fast and gets way more mileage.
They keep getting more and more visually offensive...