When Killer Whales and Humans Hunted Together
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- čas přidán 13. 01. 2024
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Credits:
Narrator: Stephanie Sammann
Writer: Lorraine Boissoneault
Editor: Dylan Hennessy (www.behance.net/dylanhennessy1)
Illustrator: Jacek Ambrożewski
Illustrator/Animator: Kirtan Patel (kpatart.com/illustrations)
Animator: Mike Ridolfi (www.moboxgraphics.com/)
Sound: Graham Haerther (haerther.net)
Thumbnail: Simon Buckmaster ( / forgottentowel )
Producer: Brian McManus ( / realengineering )
REFERENCES
[1] blogs.scientificamerican.com/...
[2] ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent...
[3] medcraveonline.com/IJAWB/orca...
[4] www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/blog/...
[5] lithub.com/law-of-the-tongue-...
[6] www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-2... - Věda a technologie
Always found orcas to be one of the most fascinating creatures. The more I learn about them, the more I've come to admire them.
Yup they’re the people of the oceans. Absolutely top of the food chain, social, intelligent, they have their own language, they pass down learned behavior, not just instinct, they’re the closest thing to humans on Earth, maybe not biologically but certainly in terms of how they fit into their environment.
Same they are some of my favorite animals. Such intelligent and complex creatures, it’s remarkable how clever they are
Orca are astounding, even if you can't understand how it sounds like "our-cause" when you pretend "Orca" are so called "orcas."
If you find orcas fascinating, you should look into crows and ravens or birds in the corvidae family. I also find orcas to be amazing creatures, but these little birds are quite amazing in their own right.
@@majinvegeta9280that is true, from what I understand magpies are one of the few animals on Earth that have shown signs of self awareness. They’ve passed the mirror test, and I’ve also seen an experiment, I believe it was ravens, where they had a treat in a bottle of water but the water level wasn’t high enough for the bird to reach the treat, and there was a pile of rocks next to the bottle. The bird took the rocks and dropped them into the bottle, raising the water level until it was high enough for them to reach the treat. This shows great problem solving skills and also potentially an understanding of cause and effect, which is a high level thought process.
I think another interesting two-animal pairing is ravens and wolves: Where the ravens scout out and alert wolves to prey animals, and the wolves would follow the ravens to the target. It only gets even more interesting when it's been documented that the ravens will play with the wolf pups and develop relationships with them.
Crows do that with human hunters as well but I didn’t know they played with the puppies!
or badgers and cyotes
THATS SOOOO CUTE!!!!!
A correction: humans *have* worked with other large predators. And that relationship was so succesful that the evidence of it might be sitting beside you on the couch, licking your hand or out barking at the mailman to warn them away from your house. Wolves became part of the human story so long ago that the history of it is controversial and new findings are often changing that story and timelime. But perhaps, somewhere in the icey Northern wastelands a similar relationship evolved as wolves assisted humans in taking down large, formidable prey.
Plus I’m sure defence against large cats helped! Lynx, cougars, etc tried to go for us quite a lot early on in our history.
Dogs were never apex, nor cats.
@@ThoughtsAreReal you’re referring to the very opening line, OP is referring to the line at 4:05 which is more generically about “large predators” and “carnivores”
But modern dogs come from gray wolves, who are apex predators.
Dog
Oh fuck that's a cool DnD Warlock idea. "You make a pact with a creature that hunts with your tribe, and it starts hunts that you participate in"
What are you some kind of nerd?
@@doommarauder3532 you're commenting under this video so it's safe to assume you're a nerd yourself
@@doommarauder3532 You ain't? Look at the video you're commenting on.
One of the weirdest relationships in the wild is baboons and crocodiles.
Most of the other animals in the area understand the baboon "it's safe" call by the watering hole. Baboons have been documented faking the call to lure other animals to the watering hole so the crocodiles can eat them. The crocodiles in turn leave them alone.
Weren't the baboons working with lions? I never heard about them working with crocs
@@Girjon05 I haven't heard about the lions but I'll take your word for it. I know they were doing it with crocs. It wouldn't surprise me though, they are super smart.
They have also been documented kidnapping feral puppies and raising them.
@@Bitchslapper316 I actualy think it was with lions.
Basically the baboons would act chill around the other animals, even though they know the lions are hunting. By seeing the baboons so calm, the other animals would also lower their guard, meaning the lions had an easier time to sneak up on their prey.
In return the lions never attacked the baboons, and they didn't teach their cubs to attack baboons, so the cooperation worked. The lions had a bit more success in hunting, while the baboons didn't have to worry about being eaten
@@Girjon05 I'm actually %100 certain the event I am talking about was with crocodiles.
They would hang out near the watering hole but far enough away they were safe. They would see the crocs and put out the "it's safe" call. Other animals would come down to drink and get eaten. Then the baboons would go drink.
@@Bitchslapper316 Where did you see that? Seems interesting to see
Somewhere in South America dolphins and humans fish together; the dolphins will drive a shoal of fish towards the fisherman standing in the sea with their nets, and the fishermen will share their catch with the dolphins.
I’ve read a lot about this and if I remember correctly, they actually don’t need to share their catches with the dolphins! When the nets are thrown, the fish, that had been swimming away from the dolphins, change direction to try and escape the net, and a lot end up fleeing directly towards the dolphins. So the humans get the ones in the net and the dolphins get the ones that escape the nets! So there’s no need to split the catches, everyone eats good!
They have a documentary about that tribe. The dolphins would be netted with the fish at times but would stay calm because the humans would release them then share the catch.
It happens in Laguna, State of Santa Catarina, Brazil. There's some level of cooperation between dolphins and local shore fishermen.
Old Tom and his pod, the Killers of Eden, are legendary. His death was tragic, but at least he died free. Tilikum, Lolita/Tokitae, Moby Doll, Hugo, Shamu, Namu, Kasatka, Kiska, Gudrun and others weren't so lucky.
That’s super cool that you know them names!!
Касатка - Kasatka is literally an Orca in Russian therefore mb that one had another name
@@WebinarPerson She was named Kasatka. She was captured in 1978 in Iceland and died in 2017 in Seaworld San Diego.
Tilikum is responsible for the deaths of three people (two trainers and a trespasser). Keto killed one trainer. Tilikum was captured in Iceland. Keto was born in captivity. Orcas shouldn't be kept in small tanks and forced to perform tricks for tourists.
A storm and dwindling whale numbers led to the breaking of an almost century old bond between a family of fishers and the Orca pod.
I can’t imagine how the weight of that guilt must feel. Good that he did what he could to atone for it, even if it would never be enough.
How is a museum atonement?
@@stephenkennedy8305 now more people know about this story and pay their respects to Old Tongue. Which is something, but probably not enough
No, you completely misunderstood.
A greedy human who did not want to take the risk that his prey maybe gets washed away.
Watch the video again. It was the humans fault. THE HUMANS. Not anybody elses. Are you American? They are great at shifting the blame and not taking responsibility. You seem like a USsian to me.
@@mathhews95I like how people misspell his name, someone wrote it as Old Thom, and then there's this, Old Tongue 😂
i think you shouldnt be so quick to judge, the dude was in a stressful position, besides with whaling later being forbidden the pact couldnt go on anyway. not saying hes not at fault.@@dasstigma
It's ironic that this video about how humans and orcas were hunting together until one betrayed the other has the segment about Curiosity betraying Nebula after working together for so long.
Glad I saw your comment, I was just about to click off and not watch the end but this comment made me do so - as yeah, this fucking SUCKS. As someone who bought that bundle in the past I'll make damn sure I don't give Curosity Stream a penny again.
I got the bundle too. That's gonna get cancelled and I'm going directly to Nebula. I watch it much more than I do Curiosity Stream
This is one of those fascinating facts that too few Aussies are ever taught in school! To think that the two most intelligent and adaptable apex predators on earth figured out how to coexist should speak volumes to how shitty we humans really are to each other, let alone other creatures we consider beneath us.
Why would you teach a criminal🇳🇿 anything 🤔
@@mokgz169 what's criminal about the flag of new zealand?
@@ben.pueschel Aren't they also a penal colony 🤔
@@mokgz169 No it wasn't. Do some research and you'll find it was primarily settled as an actual settler colony with free farmers and workers making up the bulk of white immigrants.
@@shakeelali20 So you don't need a criminal record anymore to get into New Zealand 🤔
you know an animal is really amazing when Stephanie/ Real Science has made 3 videos about them
As a marine biology student, your content really is a gem to me
Contains some truth but not all.
Maybe google for more truth.
The story of Tom and his dragging the whale boats out with his teeth and his teeth being worn down by the ropes was not told .
I don't really get the point you want to make@@andrewchalmers7422
@@andrewchalmers7422 czcams.com/video/gaRSdixOTqM/video.html
A few years ago I was out sea kayaking along a local cliff and came across a pod of orcas, I was extremely anxious as two of the younger ones kept bumping my kayak. I got to the nearby cliff and climbed onto a large outcropping of rocks. They continued bumping my kayak so I had to drag it up the cliff as I was worried they would damage it or drag it away leaving me stranded. They stayed in the area for about 90mins just watching me before eventually getting bored and leaving. That was a long long 90mins.
It was an extremely surreal experience, I wasn’t afraid of orcas before that encounter but no way in hell would I get into the water with them now.
I’ve always had amazing experiences with bottlenose dolphins, seals and basking sharks over the years. Orcas honestly just felt different, in a way only an intelligent predator can. At least that’s the best way I can describe it.
Interesting. I wonder if they have similar conversations about us.
@@erikdayne5429I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re the “crazy killer aliens/monsters” to the rest of the animal kingdom if I’m being honest, it’d make sense.
@@ger5956yeah I agree, a lot of animals communicate in their own way and while it may not be as complex as human language, they can certainly communicate if there’s a threat in the area. Interestingly enough for some animals we’re probably not the “killer aliens”, but also potentially “benevolent gods”, like for dolphins for instance, we don’t hunt them so they wouldn’t see us as a threat, but we do have a lot of positive interactions with dolphins so they probably see us as a helpful influence.
@@erikdayne5429And knowing how dolphins are I'll bet some of them thought, in their way about: "I wanna bang that weird land thing".
I don't think dolphins or other cetaceans have the understanding of the concept of gods. At least there's no concrete proof of it.
Orcas are one of my favorite animals specifically because I imagined situations like this, if we could figure out how to talk to orcas. We know humans and orca can work together as an immutable fact. Knowing that this cooperation deal was destroyed almost put tears in my eyes. Maybe someday we can rebuild a relationship just like this.
The Haida tribes still maintain bonds with orcas
@@jurban7998 That's good to know. I hope they serve as a good model for how humans and orca can not just coexist, but become great partners!
Have you ever read The Idiot Gods by David Zindell? It's a fiction book about exactly that-human and orca communication, told from the perspective of the orca. You might like it!
Only white people broke the pact not other humans white people hate wild animals unlike us we live with other animals
Pretty cool to think we once worked with/hunted alongside such intelligent and remarkable animals. The wolves of the sea deserved our respect imo
They are not the 'wolves' of the sea. They are the 'Humans' of the Sea.
To think... In an alternate universe humans that live near oceans would likely have pet domesticated orcas, like how we have dogs in this universe.
0:30 [insert Lindsay Nikole going "THAT. WE. KNOW. OF."]
Any time someone says orcas have never killed humans in the wild I think about how powerful and intelligent they are. If they wanted to kill a boatload of humans no one would know. They would just be gone. No survivors. I'm sure there were serial killer whales out there at some point, if only to toss our corpses around like seals
Orcas are so elegant and smart. They always surprise me with such new information
In australia i actually DID learn a fair bit about the Yuin/orca relationship, and its domething that has always fascinated me, its an excellent example of both our own and their intelligence coexisting perfectly
I doubt you have time to read most of the comments, but I just want to say how much my 9yo daughter and I appreciate your videos. We watch them on our way to school, which can be a pretty long drive, and between your videos and SciShow, we've learned so much about animals and a ton of other topics. She's excited about learning and it's so cool to hear her try to share facts she's learned with other adults and her friends. So thank you for what you do!
Orcas are incredible majestic animals and alittle scary at the same time, they're incredibly smart and people should respect them.
This might be a bad comparison but like the
Blue Ringed Octopus its Incredible to look at but very deadly if handled incorrectly
Amazing story. I'm so grateful i caught this early, and that you shared it. Wikipedia just doesn't do your videos justice 😅 I never knew that the human fell to his knees like that, and that the betrayal even ever happened. Looking forward to visiting the outback and going to the museum to see and honor Old Thom's remains.
It's not actually in the outback. It's on the east coast, 🙂down amongst the old growth forests and just east of the snowfields.... I live around the corner.
Old Tom got the short end of the stick
Poor fella 😢 he just wanted his share
Thanks so much for continuing to educate us!! I love your channel 🎉
Orcas are definitely my favorite animal I hope to go kayaking with them soon, such magnificent animals
Always so happy to see a new video from you! I actually already knew about this story, but I was still excited to hear you tell it! You do great work and I love your channel!
Margaret Brooks was the Daughter of J.R. Logan and was present on Logan's sailing yacht "the white heather" during Logan's altercation with Tom . It was only through her firsthand eyewitness accounts that I recorded in the 1990s that we know what was discussed on the boat. Although an extra's ad-lib added drama to the the 2005 ABC documentary "Killers in Eden", Margarets descriptions in the interviews are the only accurate source of what was said onboard.
Yay! She's back! Happy New Year.
Also, more orca content.
More orca content is always welcome imo
@@aamirrazak3467well we are the best.
@@aamirrazak3467 also, more Stephanie! 😊
@@artawhirler yeah also good!
Loved the visuals, as always!
Great channel, I thoroughly enjoyed this episode, this easily has to be one of the best things I have watched in a very long time, thank you for sharing such wonderful content 🙏🏾❤️
Orcas are such an amazing animal. Im fully convinced that if they had something to grab and craft with like hands they would be just as advanced as us.
that's a lot of blowhole
Unfortunately, even if they had hands like us, they have another factor holding them back from reaching our level of technological development- their environment is not conducive to the use of fire.
I remember thinking that same thing as a child, after first reading that dolphins are more intelligent than humans. "Well then, why aren't THEY running the world instead of us?" I wondered. It didn't take me long to reach the same conclusion you did.
That really is an interesting thought!
If we look at the evolution of the human brain, fire was one of the catalysts for its advancements. I would like to imagine something for the orcas to take that step.
Thank you for explaining the Curiosity Stream situation. I just went to Nebula and renewed without the old bundle. Thanks for all the great videos!
A few year back you made me discover my favourite animal. Thank you for making more videos about Orca's
The story about Old Tom...this is sad
I can watch documentaries about Orcas all day long and never get bored :).
Same with your species!
Very happy that you started showing your face. Makes your vids even better. Didn't think that would really be possible before.
Always found worms to be one of the most fascinating creatures. The more I learn about them, the more I've come to admire them
Nice. I was wondering when you were going to get around to making this video. A topic definitely hinted on in a couple of previous videos.
I feel like we will come to realize that aquatic mammals may have a higher degree of social intelligence than we can even fathom… maybe as a less socially optimized species.
Real classy, curiosity stream, real fkn classy
Wonderful video ❤ thank you!
Amazing!
Jesus you can see the abscess in the upper maxilla of old tom..
Orcas could probably fly jets & do trigonometry I swear. We are only just beginning to understand just how smart they are
I want to watch a movie about this Story.
me too!!
Happily, you can! It's a 30 minute documentary called "The Killer Whales of Eden" and it's right here on CZcams! 😊
I'm so curious about Old Tom's side of the story. Did this betrayal had any social implication? Orcas obviously have their emotional spectre and i ponder what went through Old Tom's mind as he swam away that fateful day.
@@artawhirler There's two. There's my original rough cut using only my original interview material and then there's our more elaborate ABC documentary with recreations and my 3D digital animations and fullsize animatronic model orcas. czcams.com/video/gaRSdixOTqM/video.html czcams.com/video/nk_sDK0yLOk/video.html I'll be posting some more excerpts of interviews. There's over 20 hours of interviews with family members and eyewitness townsfolk and Thaua / Yuin first-nations people.
@@justanotherhuman7488 At the time Tom lost his tooth there were only three male orcas who were spotted visiting the bay in winter, Tom, Hookey and Humpy. Others such as Ben had been recognised a few years later on a one off visit. So the pod had dwindled down to almost nothing with three elderly orcas who were possibly brothers. Tom was very familiar with George Davidson over decades and would be unlikely to harbour ill will. It was George's neighbour J.R. Logan who tussled with Tom though being at midships at the controls Tom may not have understood who was responsible.
I got excited I thought the title said "when Orcs and Humans hunted together"
That's what it means. Humans and Orcas did hunt together. czcams.com/video/gaRSdixOTqM/video.html
Great story, thank you
Very underrated video and needs more publicity. Hearing this first time.
Well how about hearing the actual people involved... czcams.com/video/gaRSdixOTqM/video.html
The more I learn about Orcas, and the more research that gets published about them, it seems clear to me that out of any other creature on our planet, they are our equals, if not incredibly close. They have languages, culture, sentience, & so many shared aspects most people would argue belong to humans alone. Having grown up fascinated by marine biology and with a cultural anthropology degree now, I can safely say Orcas are truly intriguing.
It's been nice to see more public admiration for them in recent years.
Orcas! I just opened a new Nebula account from your link. I had the CS bundle once I'm looking forwards to seeing Nebula content again
Highly recommended the book "killers of Eden". I've read it countless times since I was a little kid. It's written as a narrative but based on the stories of George Davidson himself. As far as I know it's the only telling of the story that George was involved in personally and it was released only months after his death. It's a fantastic story with loads of awesome photos and I can't recommend it enough if you want a deep dive into the story
The Davidson family themselves produced a book themselves called "Davidson of Kiah" by Don Davidson who sought to correct the unfortunately numerous errors in Mead's book regarding the family and nature of people in the story. I knew Tom Mead personally and spoke to him for many delightful hours in Manly . He had embroidered a lot of the story for dramatic value but the actual whaling episodes are quite accurate. George was a quiet man and rather sick of Journalists so difficult to extract information from. The copies owned by the Davidson family are covered from end to end in corrections. Tom Mead had met George a few times but George's daughter Annie had provided the lions share of stories. George Davidson's grandson Rene Davidson set out to collect as many photos as possible from the whaling days and published two photo compilation books, one of which focused exclusively on the whaling and killers and whaling station.
I managed to interview many members of the family on audio tape and video including people who had been direct eyewitnesses to the whaling and spoke to folks who had directly participated in the whale chases. There's a lot more to it than in the existing books.
wierd question maybe, but any chance to get the title or where to get the song playing from 5:45 onward?
Orcas are so fearsome :o
There's a video where a baby orca flags down a boat to help it's mother get loose from a net. As thanks the mother tossed an octopus on the boat.
Given everything we have done to them, it's quite remarkable that they choose to target our boats rather than directly retaliating against us for revenge. It goes to show that perhaps they possess a higher level of intelligence than we commonly attribute to them.
Or less. That would require critical thinking to make multiple generations think "all boat bad" considering some have never seen a boat.
@@oofbonk9741Rude! We are certainly capable of critical thinking.
@@oofbonk9741
czcams.com/video/LWH4Sdt9TMs/video.html
@@Murderoreo1 sorry, orca friend😔
@@oofbonk9741You are no friend to orca? But orca friend to you.
Nice shots.
I wondered if you’d make a video about this❤
I have always found the story fascinating! Absolutely incredible cooperation by 2 very different species! Humans and dogs/wolfs have so many more opportunities to understand and cooperate while sea animals and land animals hardly have a common ground, yet this happened so long ago! It's sad it came to an end; I guess we aren't intelligent enough in the end.
This is an intriguing and fascinating topic on the complex relationship between apex predators, but I'm a bit sad that real science has not yet produced a real science video on the biology of tigers, If real science did, I would give it a thanks.But otherwise, this is fascinating how the two most intelligent apex predators on the planet and this is why we should respect orcas in their own right as highly intelligent and empathetic creatures.
Thanks!
We should never forget the respect towards other beings and furthermost other intelligent beings.
Ah, Old Tom. He'll be missed
"That we know of"
@RealScience I LOVE Your videos, you guys do a wonderful job. Could you please do a video on leopards and, tigers? These are my favorite animals and, I have been waiting for videos on them. thanks. I've been here since the beginning and, it's been great. I tell everyone I Know to check out the channel. P.s. Elephants would also be great.
the same thing use to happen on the west coast of canada, on vancouver island.
Old Tom and Killers of Eden will never be forgotten. ♥
this is some other level of cuteness that died an age ago =")
I love yout videos 😊
I never knew that. This is mindblowing fact.
Thanks for the nebula update I got quite confused because I hadn't been checking on it. Go figure that my bundle deal was made on january 2nd so I got completely robbed of a subscription from curiosity stream... no warning emails from them either btw.
Orcas are my favorite animal
I cancelled my Curiosity Stream subscription after this news. I never had the time to make use of either Curiosity Stream or Nebula really, but I wanted to support you guys.
really interesting
If you put Orcas in a small pool as entertainment you kinda get what's coming to you
Further north from there, in the Broadwater of the Logan River, Aborigines with scoop nets and dolphins cooperated to catch fish.
I strongly believe we are all connected... I mean we are related to all living species. If we are true of heart and patient to hear nature's call. We can restore that link... like the rare few who still do to this day.
love this clip 🐬🐋👍
I love the story of The Law of Tongue.
How people can deny these beings personhood is beyond me, when stories like this exist surely it's obvious that these are fellow conscious, sentient, intelligent individuals. Humanity should be ashamed of the way we've treated these and others throughout history, it makes me so incredibly sad.
so interesting
. . . . . . The pact between Nebula and Curiosity has been broken
THE NORTH REMEMBERS!!!!
3:35 One of these famous orcas was named Old Tom
Did anything like this happen in the northern hemisphere in the artic? Because i could definitely see the inuit people doing something like this. OMG the story of Old Tom is so heartbreaking.
this is what I think of when people say ancient technology. Not so much computers and lazers, but life force, connection and energy
nice
Damn Old Tom got hit in the back by a steel chair from his own tag team partner. SMH
The Sea World "Blackfish" thing really ruined everyone's perception of Orcas. Those incidents involved an Orca who had been mistreated. More people are attacked by dogs each year than by any Orca. In the wild, Orcas do not harm humans.
Poor Old Tom
Every ecological disaster in last few centuries starts with "When European settlers first came"
There's a reason *great white sharks* will avoid *Orcas* _at all costs_ haha. They're the very definition of APEX predators! So sad that sacred trust was broken.
DO INSANE BILOGY OF GOBLIN SHARKS PLEASE
And now killer whales are hunting humans, or at least our boats...
While Orcas have the second biggest brain in the animal kingdom. It's real neurological advantage is that Orca (& Dolphin) brain is the wrinkliest know brain in the animal kingdom. A title that used to be attribute to humans.
I'm from the far south coast. Most people I've told about this don't even believe me.
Poor old tom
Steve o would be proud
Everytime I think something related to animals is unbelievable, I am reminding myself about the story of Wojtek the bear.
I imagine there were many ancient civilizations even on pre Roman Europe for an example tribes that hunted alongside orcas and other whales but they are gone now, as some people thought to have hunted alongside beluga whales in Celtic UK, wonder if they could develop an unique relationship with the badjau tribe
Since when did we hunt with beluga whales?
It’s weird, I went to a Seaworld type show that involved Orcas as a kid, much before I knew anything about ethics, but there was something unnerving watching animals that were clearly smart be used as props for us to look at before going back to their miserable lives in small tanks
I love orcas