What The Hell Is Going On In Arizona!? | SDP
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
- Steve Dangle, Adam Wylde and Jesse Blake discuss the chaos that is going down in Arizona with Coyotes ownership now that Alex Meruelo has stepped down.
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Reno and Henderson are 7 hours and 400 miles apart.
i was about to say that. for Toronto area people that is like Toronto to Indianapolis
They are from Canada. They have no clue about US geography and how large states in the American West are. They apparently also don't know that Reno is a casino town and Meruelo is building the arena as part of the casino resort that he's building there.
@@Desert-Father Most Americans don't have the first clue about Nevada outside of Vegas, not just a Canadian thing.
@@ericmills9839 But most Americans don't run a podcast wondering why a casino owner might want to move his AHL team to a casino town to play at his casino resort.
As a coyotes fan, I couldn’t agree more. Muerelo was thee worst. Couldn’t be more happier.
He did nothing but buy something for 400 million, played along, did nothing and then sold it for 1 billion...
American dream!
Not Atlanta! For Christ's sake, not Atlanta! I live down here and they'll lose interest in less than a decade. Then it will be three teams.
Isn't it crazy that Atlanta might get another chance at an NHL team.
1) The Atlanta Thrashers set the record for most money LOST by any franchise in the history of the NHL ($130 million in losses between 2005 and 2010).
2) Georgia has worse hockey registration than EVERY SINGLE ONE of the least populated states in America:
- Georgia population - 10,711,908 (2,078 hockey players)
- Maine population - 1,362,359 (5,909 hockey players)
- Montana population - 1,122,867 (5,581 hockey players)
- South Dakota population - 909,824 (3,056 hockey players)
- North Dakota population - 779,179 (7,310 hockey players)
- Alaska population - 733,391 (8,130 hockey players)
- Vermont population - 647,464 (4,289 hockey players)
- Wyoming population - 576,851 (2,195 hockey players)
3) Georgia has worse hockey registration than the least populated provinces in Canada....
- Georgia population - 10,711,908 (2,078 hockey players)
- Prince Edward Island - 154,331 (5,557 hockey players)
The least populated province in Canada (Prince Edward Island) has more hockey players than; Hawaii, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas, Delaware, West Virginia, Oklahoma, and New Mexico combined. Because Prince Edward Island is an example of a “real hockey market”.
Prince Edward Island population - 154,331 (5,557 hockey players)
Louisiana population - 4,657,757 (294)
Oklahoma population - 3,959,353 (1,017)
Arkansas population - 3,011,524 (366)
Mississippi population - 2,961,279 (246)
West Virginia population - 1,793,716 (980)
Hawaii population - 1,455,271 (25)
Delaware population - 989,948 (947)
Total population - 18,828,848 (5,300 hockey players)
Even the smallest, least populated regions in Canada and America still support hockey better than in Georgia....
And the NHL wants to go back to Atlanta a third time???
4) - Atlanta has no area built
5) - other hockey markets such as Portland, Quebec, Hamilton, Milwaukee exist
6) - Houston is also an option in the South
7) - Phoenix is also an option in the South
8) - Large Southern Markets like Miami, Phoenix, Atlanta, Anaheim, Tampa all lose money, and generate less money for the NHL than Winnipeg
The NHL teams that lost the most money over the past decade (2012-2021):
1st place = -$152,900,000 = Florida Panthers (Miami - 6,183,199)
2nd place = -$141,600,000 = Arizona Coyotes (Phoenix - 4,845,832)
3rd place = -$108,800,000 = Carolina Hurricanes (Raleigh-Durham - 1,509,231)
4th place = -$83,500,000 = Anaheim Ducks (Los Angeles-Anaheim - 12,799,100)
5th place = -$76,000,000 = Columbus Blue Jackets (Columbus - 2,180,271)
6th place= -$74,400,000 = Tampa Lightning (Tampa-Saint Petersburg - 3,342,963)
7th place = -$59,900,000 = Buffalo Sabres (Buffalo - 1,155,604)
BONUS TEAM: [Atlanta lost $130 million in 5 years from 2005 to 2010]
-$130,000,000 = Atlanta Thrashers (Atlanta - 6,307,261)
South
South
South
South
South
South
South
Bonus
South
@sampicano It is beyond crazy to think this is a good idea and the south does absolutely suck when it comes to hockey. To be fair, it generally sucks when it comes to professional sports. College is king here and that's all there is to it. Plus, setting up a franchise to lose money, get enormous tax breaks and bonds from a municipality to build an arena that and then do nothing afterwards is every billionaires dream. The Green Bay Packers are the lone exception.
If the NHL expands, the next expansion will be Houston.
@@Desert-Father If the NHL expands to Houston, that team will LOSE MONEY.
Just like how Miami, Tampa, Carolina, Anaheim, Phoenix and Atlanta all lose/lost money.
Alex Merulo owns the Grand Sierra Resort in Reno and is building an arena there. Also, Reno is a long way from Vegas and Henderson
alex muerelo...just gave up ownership...
and has decided to build an arena in Nevada?????????
what a stupid comment
so he has NO NHL team...
Vegas already exists in Nevada, and Henderson has an AHL team
Plus Reno is a TERRIBLE hockey market...
You think the guy who just CUT TIES with the NHL...is building a brand new hockey arena in Reno?
Dumb.
@sampicano it's a multi use arena that the local university will use for their basketball programs along with a concert venue. The permits are already stamped and the redevelopment in reno is already under way.
@@sampicano maybe do some research before you wreck yourself. Also, Reno is a 7 hour drive from Vegas and Henderson. One thing you'll never know unless you live here is that Northern and Southern Nevada have very little in common beside the State we live in.
It's a casino town and Meruelo is in the casino business. It makes sense for him. Besides he wants nothing to do with AZ after this. The Tuscon roadrunners are moving to Reno. Bank on it.
@@Desert-Father The Tucson Roadrunners...who are an Affiliate of Utah....Utah is NOT OWNED BY MUERELO
Want to bet REAL money you are wrong?
OF COURSE MUERELO HAS NO SAY WHERE UTAHS AFFILAITE IS GOING TO RELOCATE....ARE YOU BRAINDEAD LMFAO
Love that Canadians think that Henderson, NV and Reno, NV are anywhere close to each other.
And what do Americans know about Canada?
@@ML-my8qq Just aboot everything, eh... ;)
There's a whole lot of desert in between!
That’s like saying “why in Buffalo? They have NYC?!”
It may not be close but Reno is still 250 miles closer to Salt Lake City than Tucson is (or 2/3 the distance)
Panthers fan here. What happened this year for us can 100% happen for Arizona if they can get owners who will spend money and be there for the long term. It's what Vinny Viola and Doug Cifu promised Panthers fans a decade ago and they came through on their promise. I am hopeful and I believe that someone will do that for the Coyotes.
Not always a fan of Adam, but that focus through the cup being passed over and kissed was 10/10
The chip in the blue paint beside Adam is triggering my OCD!
I don't know why but the way Steve says "hit the bricks" is really cathartic to hear
Hey... just go to the local billionaires and say ... hey invest 3 Billion in an new arena and expansion fee on a team that has a solid 5000 fans. 😂
I have family who live in Pheonix. And they didnt know they had an NHL team until last year
and Georgia has WORSE hockey registration than Arizona....
But the NHL wants to go back to Atlanta...for a THIRD TIME.....
must be real hockey fans...
@@StonedFireHead must be from Arizona
AZ Coyotes still a dumpster fire as an inactive and soon to be defunct franchise.
Muerelo could NEVER afford this team...
Winnipeg waited 15 years for a new team (1996-2011)
I get that Phoenix is one of the top ten largest cities in America (10th - 4,845,832 population).
I also realize that Houston (5th - 7,149,642 population), and Atlanta (6th - 6,104,803 population) are larger than Phoenix and also don't have NHL teams - those are the cities in the South Phoenix is competing with to get an expansion team.
I personally feel a 2027 or 2028 date is impossible as of today.
Phoenix has no arena.
- The starting bid for land starts at $68.5 million (therefore, the closing bid will be MUCH higher)
The renderings proposed were for an area, practice facility, hotels, restaurants, a casino etc.
- the price tag for the arena is approximately $500 million
- the price tag for the entire district was approximately $3 billion
The parcel of land for auction - North of Loop 101 on border of Scottsdale Road has:
- no existing infrastructure
- no water rights
- no sewage system built
- no road access
Therefore the total cost to build will ACTUALLY be higher than $3 billion - you still need to build sewage systems, roads, and acquire water rights...those were not included in the $3 billion proposal.
Between 2013 and 2022 the Arizona Coyotes have lost more money than any other team in the NHL - $115.2 million in losses.
The Arizona Coyotes are a net loss team since 1997 - meaning the team overall LOST money over the past 28 years - they didn't generate money.
As of April 2024 Alex Muerelo's net worth was estimated at $2 billion.
- land $68.5 million
- arena $500 million
- district $3 billion
- PLUS YOU NEED ROADS, SEWAGE, WATER RIGHTS....so not $3 billion - actually quite more than $3 billion.....
- plus you need to BUY a expansion team (probably $1 billion minimum)
The last NHL team to sell was the Ottawa Senators for $950 million - the Arizona Coyotes are allegedly being sold for $1.2 billion.
So....$4,068,500,000
Four Billion, Sixty Eight Million, Five Hundred Thousand - would realistically not be enough money to build this district.
How is a team that lost $115.2 million dollars ever going to recoup those losses???
The team was overall at a net loss for 28 years - so realistically how many years would it take to recoup $3 billion?
One of the lower valued teams - Columbus generates about $30 million a year in profit.
$30 million x 100 years = $3 Billion
$30 million x 135 = $4,050,000,000
Still not enough to pay for the district and expansion team....
So Muerelo was NEVER going to be the answer.
Gila River and Scottsdale Arenas are both viable NHL venues if you have an owner that the respective cities weren't pissed at. They absolutely are closer to coming back today than they were a week ago.
No....footprint Center LITERALLY converted to basketball exclusively and even removed the refrigeration system...it is not NHL compatible anymore
The fact that interview came out last night and betman basically said due to arizonas geo politics the chances of the team returning is not good is a travesty but I can also acknowledge this is true while I don’t agree what can you do
Bettman announced when Smith bought the Utah team that Murello had exclusive rights for the Coyotes and could not sell that.
With Murello announcing that the Coyotes were closing up shop that means the team is dead unless Bettman changes the rules and allows him to sell the rights.
Not quite right. Murelo was given the exclusive non transferable option to bring the Coyotes back as an expansion team. But the Coyotes IP is still owned by NHL since he is walking. He sold the team and IP rights directly to the NHL for the billion.
Call the next team the Roadrunners
For new teams or relocating teams ownership matters. The residents of Phoenix are most likely going to say no to giving tax money to a billionaire for an arena. If a potential owner(s) wants to bypass the public then relationships matter.
The Toronto Roadrunners and Tuscon Roadrunners are only related in branding. The Tuscon Roadrunners have only been there since 2016, they used to be the Springfield Falcons. The Toronto Roadrunners actually moved to Edmonton before going inactive and being ressurected as the Oklahoma City Oil Barons.
They're soon to be the Reno Roadrunners. Meruelo will move them to his new arena.
I was like these guys don't know their AHL franchise history 😂
They started off as Nova Scotia Oilers, and are now the Bakersfield Condors with many stops in between.
The Reno team will probably go to the ECHL because of Meruelo's spendthrift ways (with Tim Tebow's Tahoe Knight Monsters nearby, there'd be an instant rivalry and the team who doesn't get the Golden Knights onboard can get the Sharks instead.) Also, as a former Phoenician, the region NEEDS an arena in East Valley before expansion back to Phoenix can even be considered. Glendale won't work, the suggested plan in North Phoenix was a bad idea, and if there isn't a suitable place downtown to put a new arena, then it needs to be near the 101/202 intersection where Tempe, Mesa, Scottsdale, and the Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community converge (with Chandler, Gilbert, and much of Phoenix proper not too far away.) The fact that Meruelo is a supposed gambling maestro who couldn't find a way to make this happen with Casino Arizona on "the res" probably shouldn't surprise me, all things considered.
You fellas should check out how Nevada is pronounced. You can be ahead of most of American media if you get it right.
The franchise and local leaders have had issues from day one. Long before Meruelo. He sure didn't help it any. Frankly, a new owner steps to the plate and we do have an arena here.. The Glendale arena they played in for years is a very nice arena... Meruelo spoiled that relationship. Very possible a new owner could easily move into there tomorrow.. Yeah, many don't like the location as it's too far from downtown (though I actually call that a plus, don't matter the reason.. I hate going down town), but it is next door to the Cardinals stadium too.. Yeah, it would help being closer where the Rail line runs and the bus services could help too. But I think that's a bit overblown some times. Realistically, people who rely on the rail/bus don't have the disposable income to blow on a pro-hockey team. People work there.. not many live there. The people who push for downtown arenas are business people who just want more customer outside of business hours... actual fans don't live in down town. Glendale itself is not that far out.. but where in glendale the arena is is a bit far away.. but again, previous ownership burned bridges with Phoenix. Personally, there are 2 locations I've feelt better about in phoenix.. both now closed Malls (very recent).. and both have access to the rail service. And people live close.
There will be a team in Tahoe this next season, The Knight Monsters I think
Yeah ECHL knights affiliate. I live in Reno and there's been ads since the winter about them coming and ticket packages for knight monsters and yeah this Reno thing with the coyotes was in the works and they were going to build on the GSR casino and play there. Tim Tebow is one of the owners of the Tahoe team.
@@Workingman22 I’ve seen the logo design. I’ll end up buying a jersey. Because owning 9 hockey isn’t enough 😂
What I want to know is, how long does Utah have an agreement for affiliation?
Utah doesn't own the team, so they could go in a totally different direction. Maybe purchase their own team at some point.
This guy sounds like the NHL's equivalent of John Fisher (Oakland/Vegas A's) owner
Arizona will be back. They will likely face less hurdles with Murelo out of the picture.
Will the jets get their history back now….
AZ is absolutely in a better position now that the clown is out.
Henderson and Reino is quite far away from eachother, from what I understand. I don't see how that should be a problem.
Mat Ishbia? Be careful of what you ask for…
The Coyotes are much further away from coming back. There is no one that is going to spend millions studying land, millions to buy it, a billion to build an arena, all just to hope the NHL will grant an expansion team which will then cost another 2 billion. Not happening. It’s over
Reno actually makes alot of sense, but these guys aren't that smart, they are Leaf fans after all ;)
I think people need to move on from hockey in Arizona and so does the NHL. It's more than just about the wrong people running the franchise. It just didn't work and will never work. Move on.
Yeah,
4th largest media market.
They will be back
Just means the next 2 expansion cities will be Atlanta and Houston.
An NHL team in Atlanta and Houston will not generate revenue for the NHL...
Tampa, Miami, Carolina, Anaheim, Atlanta and Phoenix all lost the most money for the NHL (two of them had to relocate....)
Houston would be no different...
Meurlo gets a half billion dollar profit for his trouble.
The team history should now go to Utah
Reno and Henderson are eight hours apart.
And it’s not NeVAHda, it’s NeVAda.
Thank you! Can't stand it when people say our state name wrong.
What a generational snake oil salesman. Even Charlie O. Finley would be wowed. Good riddance to Meruelo.
Gerry has a pretty bad record of finding new owners.
Carolina’s owner is looking pretty sketchy now.
*the flames owners are number 2 on the list now.
Canadian teams aren’t all that exempt from incompetent ownership groups, with limited playoff success the Canucks, Winnipeg Jets, Leafs and Sens long had under those ownership groups in place at the end of the 2022-23 NHL season. Under the late Eugene Melnyk the Sens saw limited playoff success although under Mike Andlauer they may finally see playoff success they never did from the 2017-18 to 2023-24 season.
Revert everything that was Arizona back to Winnipeg and let what ever comes next in Arizona be separate from what this franchise was. Re-retire Doan's number in Winnipeg. That's my opinion.
Yeah, Meruello was a clown. But you clearly don't have the slightest idea how hard it is to get an arena built in Arizona, or Phoenix area. They won't get tax breaks because that won't pass a referendum. The state has laws against tax breaks for sports teams. This isn't Canada where voters have to ply the Flames and Oilers with public money for stadiums. No. Different kettle of fish.
Yes it is easier without Meruello, and better that he is gone, but this is going to take more than 5 years and probably more than 10. As for the Roadrunners, Meruello is building an arena in Reno, hence the plan to move.
So hockey won't be returning then 😊 I can't see any owner being foolishness enough to reboot desert hockey without a lot of tax breaks or other government goodies.