As someone whose favorite game IS Apollo Justice (next to TGAA), I'd say the biggest issue for me is not having Phoenix act as more of a mentor. Yes, he IS a mentor to Apollo and Athena, but as he stands now, he doesn't really let the other two get the spotlight they need. Getting his badge back is fine, but I would prefer after that point having Apollo and Athena head most of their cases (keep the defense and assistant role in court) switching up who gets to be whose investigation assistant (switch it up between Apollo, Athena and Trucy), and having Phoenix stay in the office but offering advice when you're stuck or even just to talk to during important parts without having him interfere in court would probably feel better because then he retains that smooth intelligence he had in AJ and he gets to play the role Mia played in the trilogy. Just like how Edgeworth is too busy being a chief prosecutor to consistently appear in court, Phoenix is the one running the office in the background and showing his new lawyers the ropes. This would retain his AJ personally but it would also make cases in which he -does- appear feel more impactful - maybe he has to appear in the middle of court during a final case to provide a much needed hand when the gang is stuck, but still be there as an assistant and give the spotlight to Apollo or Athena, probably jump in as an assistant if the other isn't available like Mia was whenever she inhabited Maya or Pearl's body. I also very desperately want to see Klavier back and feel like he would be a good character to have during Apollo's cases, alongside Blackquill for Athena, and maybe even switching up those prosecutors could lead to something interesting as well (let Athena face Klavier in court!). Honestly, my favorite example of something they did right with Phoenix is in SoJ case 5, with Apollo and Phoenix during the first half. If you know, you know. It was a VERY different thing, but it was EXTREMELY satisfying.
Yeah, i remember the immense backlash to AJ changing the main character. I don`t know for certain, if it was a contributing factor, but i hardly believe Shu Takumis departure as a director and writer afterwards being a mere coincidence. And well, what else would a new writer think after seeing this? The loud fans got what they wanted, much to the series detriment....
“People hates Apollo Justice at first, because he isn't Phoenix Wright.” “People hates Athena Cykes at first, because she isn't Maya Fey.” --Phoenix Wright Trilogy crazy fans in a nutshell.
Disagree, Maya wasn’t gonna be in DD anyways. But poor Trucy got sidelined after only getting one game for a two lawyer system that doesn’t work and feels squished
There's something deeply ironic about how AA4 ended in a case literally called turnabout succession about building new things out of the past, only for the next game in the series to be held back by trying to live in the series' past.
@@slobertooth1358 I don't think it's fair this to be such a consistent hard criticism against AJ. It acts like AJ was supposed to be a standalone game with no sequels, when it very clearly left things to develop in future games. Blame Dual Destinies for completely abandoning any ideas or characterization the game set up in favour of nostalgia baiting and padding with new characters for marketing. Phoenix wasn't massively important or characterised in his debut, either. Apollo had an interesting set-up as a rookie lawyer developing in a new, changing legal world.
@@BaileeeeeyyyExcept ot is. Phoenix at least got to shine in his game whilst Apollo got nothing. Add on to the fact that Phoenix’s disbarment was horribly handled and thus makes everything about him a chore and AJ completely fails both Apollo and phoenix
Personally I think part of the problem is that AJ did just enough to allow for a return to the status quo but not enough to explain why the new version was intrinsically better. What does it matter to the player whether the judge or an unseen jury determines the fate of your client? It was the Great Ace Attorney games that made the jury relevant, not AJ. And unfortunately it also underserved Apollo himself by giving him no character arc and making the central mystery of the game “Why did Phoenix get disbarred?”. I’ll acknowledge that DD also gave Apollo the short end of the stick, but it did at least give him a character arc. And it acknowledged the damage Kristoph did to the legal system in an interesting, if clumsy way. Frankly as a sequel to the original trilogy I thought it succeeded far more than AJ did.
The biggest problem I see in Apollo Justice onward is a lack of focus. The writers clearly wanted to tell a new story without Phoenix, but he was popular enough that management wouldn't let them ditch him for a new protagonist. To please both groups they tried to fit Phoenix into a story with a new protagonist, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. Adding Phoenix to Apollo Justice made it inevitable that Apollo was overshadowed by him. While some of the scenes with Phoenix were amazing in that game, I think the overall trade-off wasn't worth it. They repeated the same mistake with Dual Destinies and Athena. She has to compete with Phoenix and Apollo for screen-time, so all of them get a lot less development. What they should have done is pick a path and commit. Either tell a new story with Phoenix, or take the risk of having a new protagonist and ditch Phoenix. Doing that wouldn't please everyone, but at least the quality of the product would be a lot better. By trying to please everyone, they ended up pleasing no one because the story became a convoluted mess.
Yea since AJ and DD were made by different teams, there was a lack of direction for the series. It feels like no one really knew how to progress with the series and thus DD doesn't feel like a true sequel to AJ
Yeah, I always felt the series went downhill when I saw Apollo Justice, and the fact they forget everything what happened after the trilogy. No mention or Iris, Franziska etc. It's why I don't really consider the games Apollo Justice, DD and SoJ games canon compared to the trilogy and the Investigations games. Haven't played DD (only seen case 1) or SoJ, but I'm planning to try them, when they come out. So I might change my mind, I'm not sure though. I still love the mechanics of the games and such, but wow, did they ruin such a good story after the trilogy with that decision and throwing everything away.
Not to mention, Dual Destinies was supposed to be a game for new players, but then as the game progresses, we get moments that would only please older players and confuse newer players. It would've made a LOT more sense for Klavier to replace Edgeworth as a way to make Klavier not seem pointless, AND it would satisfy newer players as well as the older players. But NOOOOOOO, we GOTTA put Edgeworth in the game so Trilogy Purists can get five seconds of hype! Again, they are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Spirit of Justice didn't really have this problem. Unlike AJ and DD, SOJ knew what it was, and it knew what it wanted to be.
I think the way Capcom should've handled it is: Keep Phoenix as the mentor. He's given a chance to get his badge back, but he decides to stay a mentor to the new generation. Dual Destinies could be playing as both Apollo and Athena, having a case that for each of them, and Phoenix still be the mentor to both. Spirit of Justice is a little more tricky starting point.(due to starting with Phoenix) My idea is Phoenix visiting Maya, but gets caught up with whole trial business, so he calls Apollo to come and help.(which gives Apollo a reason to be there from the outset and face his brother figure) Athena can stay back in Japanifornia with Trucy and Blackquill can be the prosecutor for her.(Athena will get the calmer trials and Apollo story focused) I think that's one way they could've done the Apollo/Athena trilogy with Phoenix in it.
I love both Athena and Apollo, what I feel went wrong was too much was going on during AJ,DD and SOJ, and what probably needed to happen and needs to happen in the future is if Capcom plan on continuing with these characters is to increase the number of cases from 5 to maybe 6,7 or even 8 so that everyone has time in the spotlight hell maybe give each character their own prosecutor ie Phoenix and Edgeworth, Apollo and Klavier and Athena and Blackquill and have cases between the two of them with some mixing up for some fun. I feel AA was fine with the sequel trilogy it just needed for cases or more time
Personally, I think they should take Phoenix out of the equation to give Apollo and Athena more cases and more time to shine. Phoenix can still be in the games but not a playable character. I think increasing the amount of cases would just be too much of a workload and tough on the creators
@@DerpyHiro Ay maybe take a page from the beginning of DD, or case 5 of SOJ and have him do minor parts of cases as you know a mentor would in tricky times like with what Mia did in 1-3 but the main case is Apollo’s or Athena’s. I’d just kill for a full out Athena game cause I love 5-3 and 6-4 so much
7-8 cases is a lot! But I guess it WOULD give everyone a time in the spotlight as you say... I just think they'd be too lazy to do it? Or just, don't want to do it?
I like both games very much, i just really wish Phoenix got a better arc in D.D. Maybe starting the game without his badge but getting it on 2° or 3° case would be better. Also i like Trilogy Phoenix but it sucks that his personality reverted back. His pretty old now, his an experienced and respected lawyer, feels weird for him to be the same as on his first cases. Also Apollo's style matches a LOT with phoenix, specially with how they handle trials, so it would be nice to have more different lawyers (like a more calm/collected phoenix) to mix things up Also justice for Trucy, they did her dirty in D.D. she was such a cool assistant
Yea I think they should've handled Phoenix's personality switch better in DD. I don't mind him getting his badge back right away but I'd rather have Athena take that first case instead of Phoenix taking over. And yea what happened to Trucy was rough
I like Apollo's character development in Dual Destinies. Compared with being manipulated and used by Phoenix in AJ, Apollo in Dual Destinies becomes an Anti-hero different from Phoenix. Take his suspicion of Athena in Chapter 5 as an example. I think Apollo's action teaches Phoenix and Blackquill a good lesson. Tell them that "Believing and protecting your friend's innocence" is not inconsistent with "Facing the fact and finding the truth".
SOJ undoubtedly worsened this situation. If SOJ was a game centered by Phoenix and Athena, everyone would happily forget about AJ (regardless of game or character).
Another aspect in which AJ changed the formula was with how in AJ there are a lot of unanswered questions regarding the main story line, but all of this feels intentional. The obvious one is the topic of Apollo and Trucy, but there's more, they even made a full case in a later game exclusively devoted to an unresolved topic around troupe gramarye. There's also the mistery of the black psyche locks and the accident involving Thalasss, which never get resolved or explained in the game and are left open for fan theories Funnily enough Investigations 1 has a lot of this as well, particularly in cases 3 and 5 with the main story in that game, and then for investigations 2 they do a complete 180 with case 5 from that game trying to leave absolutely no stone unturned and tell the player every single detail of what happened from the start, which in my opinion leads to a dense case, but I think the consensus is that people like this latter option better
I think it's important in a story to leave some mysteries unsolved, since that often makes a story more memorable. Though I think they really screwed that up AJ since I barely remember anything from that game, although I think that's because, like another commenter pointed out, its lack of focus by splitting the attention between Apollo and Phoenix. Investigations 1 I also barely remember anything at all, but that's just because the entire game is terribly written.
Sorry to rises from the dead but I wouldn't be surprised if the goal was to make a "AJ:AA" trilogy, where phoenix was the mentor and Apollo the main game, and that the reason the game felt so guide-railed is that it was Phoenix setting up the world for apollo for him to unhelpfully retire for the later games. @@DerpyHiro
I actually wish we got an actual whole AJ trilogy. It would have made DD and SoJ a lot more impactful if it was an actual follow up of Phoenix coming back(I would also be fine with him actually dropping off, but he is basically their marketing mascot. Even TGAA is about his ancestor rather than someone else) to the court proper after 10 years of disbarrment/effective retirement and would leave enough breathing room for Athena to properly stand out in the trio if Apollo already got enough material for himself to shine. Instead of just going "nevermind" and pretending like AJ never existed, while also forcing some characters from the game to return due to fan demand.
Dual destinies was my first Ace attorney game, and I think it has the best self contained story of any ace attorney game besides maybe Trials and Tribulations. I really hate how this game fits in the overall Ace Attorney timeline though. Phoenix went from being a flawed confident character in Apollo Justice to feeling like a quirky main character. Like I can’t explain exactly what it is about him in this game, but he doesn’t feel like trilogy Phoenix either. Dual Destinies also almost never references characters from past games, and the characters that are get shoved to the side like Pearl and Klavier. Apollo Justice and Spirit of Justice had way more impactful callbacks like Ema Skye. I like Dual Destinies in a vacuum, but it just feels so detached from the rest of the series, and I feel it kind of shoots Apollo Justice in the foot because it doesn’t develop the major characters from that game at all.
I genuinely really like both games I think they're very well written I just think that OG trilogy fans are blindsided when they hate on anything that isn't just the trilogy
While comparing to trilogy I find more plot holes in later games Dont get me wrong AJ and DD games are great just comparing to quality of trilogy they are inferior Well I think SOJ is vey well written game 4th my fav to be exact But I agree about trilogy fans Im trying to judge the game in terms on enjoyment I opened for new AA games SOJ for me has quality so I love this game SOJ gave me hope for sequels
I like both games, honestly, though I can see they have some flaws. I used to not like Hobo Phoenix as a teen, but when I got older I ended up really appreciating the way he's written, and wishing his personality was somewhat kept in DD. Originally, I thought the fourth game was too mean to Phoenix, who didn't deserve all the shit he went through, but now I see that life sometimes is like that. If you pay attention, his core is still intact in AJ: he cares about helping people, he's great at bluffing and he can be a little goofy here and there. He just got a lot smarter and jaded. Then, when he clears his name and gets his badge back in DD, it makes sense that he wouldn't look drunk and depressed all the time anymore. The only problem is that the change was a bit too fast. I honestly like Apollo more as a protagonist, and even though he only got 1 full case in DD, he at least participated in all main cases. I like Athena too, personally, and I thought she made a great duo with Apollo. They play off each other very well. Even though Trucy was also great with Apollo, I can accept that she has more important things to do than help with the law stuff. Plus, the cases in DD are all good imo. Where I think DD dropped the ball a bit is that they had Phoenix steal the spotlight from the new characters, again. This was a problem in the last case of AJ and is once again a detriment to DD. He didn't need to get the majority of the cases for himself. It could have been split more evenly. I know it's not simple to have 3 protagonists in the same game, but it could have been better. Of the 3, Phoenix was easily the one who needed the least amount of screentime, but the devs clearly wanted to appease the AJ haters. Sadly. Finally, the prosecutors. Klavier is my favorite prosecutor in the series, and Simon is my second favorite. Do I wish Klavier had appeared more in DD? Certainly! But I like Simon too. Overall, I had a great time with both games and always have fun replaying them. They're not perfect, but the things that are good are VERY good imo. Heck, I'm usually more inclined to replay AJ or DD than Trials and Tribulations, frankly, any day!
Personally, I love both trilogies. Heck, I started off with Dual Destinies. Many say that is not a good starting point for the series, but I enjoyed so much that I started wanting to play the entire franchise.
I also like Hobo Phoenix. After they changed him back, there was really nowhere for his character to go. It was complete in Trials and Tribulations. They tried something different in Apollo Justice but then never followed through and just reset him.
That's the reason Phoenix needs to be given a rest for at least a couple of games so that Athena and Apollo can have more character development. Phoenix already pretty much completed his, that and beyond. He's had enough screen time. It's not like I hate the character, but he's taking the spotlight away from the other two way too much, which when you love the other two as much as or even more than him, will cause some conflicts in your mind. I love the classic Phoenix-Edgeworth duo, but they both ate their cake already. Give some to Athena-Apollo duo.
I did enjoy Dual Destinies a lot more than Apollo Justice, but I still find enjoyment in both. Apollo Justice has two good cases and two not so good ones (although I don't hate Corner). Dual Destines has two cases that were fantastic, Case 5 and the DLC Case. Case 3 and 4 were also good. Then cases 1 and 2 were serviceable. One thing that Dual Destinies disappointed me on was Trucy and Apollo because we got next to nothing from them in DD and SoJ. However, at least DD replaced Apollo with Athena, which is a great replacement and is part of the reason I enjoy DD. So in conclusion, I enjoy DD more.
I don't understand why people see PW as the main character of DD, it clearly is Athena (and Blackquill). PW is only there to support the case, even if he's the main lawyer in the final case (I let alone the dlc), all the game is driven by Athena and Blackquill. Sure Apollo is somewhere put aside, but still I love the part of him being torn during the final case and his doubts. To me it's not because a character is always shown on screen that this character has the whole support and others not. Definitely the whole crew of Wright's Anything Agency is important, they all move the story forward and confront their personalities (and also I love the duo part of the game allowing us to use everyone's power). The final case of DD is by far my favorite case of the whole serie (haven't done AA 6 yet) even before 1-5 dlc case. About Apollo and Trucy, to me that's all on AJ, not on DD. They should've set a final dlc case in which both of them reunite with Thalassa, but it wasn't up to DD to solve AJ's unfinished business. And concerning PW's personality in AJ, I found that this is mostly because they give PW's original persona to Apollo and it was a bit strange to see two people act the same way. And I don't see how PW is different in AJ and DD, he's the same, just that his depression/delusion about the legal system vanished a bit because he now is the mentor of both Apollo and Athena. It's not contradiction to me, just logical evolution and maturity for Phoenix.
I like Apollo's character development in Dual Destinies. Compared with being manipulated and used by Phoenix in AJ, Apollo in Dual Destinies becomes an Anti-hero different from Phoenix. Take his suspicion of Athena in Chapter 5 as an example. I think Apollo's action teaches Phoenix and Blackquill a good lesson. Tell them that "Believing and protecting your friend's innocence" is not inconsistent with "Facing the fact and Finding the truth".
Phoenix is the character we play as the most in this game whereas Athena we play as the least The plot is centred around Athena but that doesn't mean she's the main character
It’s a classic case of nostalgia blindness. Happens to every fandom. Nobody is immune to it. You can look at every detail you want, but whether a game is good or not really comes down to a face value aspect. “Are you enjoying your time playing it?”
My biggest problem with DD and SOJ is two thing, Apollo’s backstory and the “No spoilers” rule. The backstory story is more on SOJ than DD but it just so complicated. Khura'in is not the best setting in my opinion. You notice that DD and SoJ ( also the investigation games) avoid details of past games. Not to sound like og trilogy purists, but T&T recap all the second game events in a way that you know what happened without telling you what happened. While DD and SoJ (mostly SoJ) bring up past events without any context. Just look at the black psylock. Lastly, the Dark ago of law makes no sense when you look at all the games up to that point. Phoenix trail make sense but Simon, a rookie prosecutor kills his non-prosecutor mentor and confesses to the crime. Not DL-6, Not SL-9, not the cases that cased DL-6, not even that case were the prosecutor was called out on being a famous thief. Nope it one with a rookie kills non law related scientist. Also O care more about the characters in GAA games more than DD and SoJ. I do think that DD and SoJ good games on there own. I just don’t work for me as a follow up or next saga type.
While Phoenix linda reverted, you can see at times (like when he enters the courtroom dueling the fist case of Dual Destinies) that he CAN act more confident. It's just that he does this waaay less often
Great video! Aside from TGAA, Apollo is my favorite mainline game in the series. I personally loved the story and twists, and although the third case was a bit on the weaker side, I enjoyed the game immensely for what it brought to the table. That's why when it came to playing Dual Destinies after I was initially a bit disappointed. Phoenix's character regression and the sidelining of Apollo in favor of Athena was pretty rough at first, but I have to say that when Dual Destinies was doing it's own thing and not relying on older characters and plot points, I think the game was generally really fun. If this was the way the series was going to go, then I hoped they'd just do their own thing since the director of Dual Destinies clearly wanted to go in his own direction instead of following up the plot elements Takumi was setting up. Unfortunately, I think Spirit of Justice did a lot of damage though. Them trying to wrap of Apollo's storyline felt really rushed, and never got he proper time it needed to develop since the game also had to compete with Phoenix in another country, Maya returning, and the fact that they had to shoehorn Athena into the game even though she added nothing to the plot. This was also not including the cases, which I generally found to be really weak too. My hope for a potentially new Ace Attorney game is that they'll go in a different direction with newer characters next time, similar to how TGAA did, but maybe in the time period of the other games. I tend to be more accepting of change when compared to the rest of the Ace Attorney community, since I always stood up for Apollo Justice despite the criticisms it used to have, so I also hope fans will be more accepting of change in the future because that inevitably needs to happen for this series to survive in my opinion.
DD’s not a bad game by any means but it’s probably my second least favorite after Investigations. People talk about its problems often, but not enough about how it failed as an AJ follow-up
By adding more and more characters, it became clear that the original overused formula doesn't work that well with that many characters in it. Capcom needs to change something if it wants the next games to work. Great video as always.
AJ may have been my least fav mainline game, but I still liked to a good degree it’s just sorta how it didn’t keep me immersed especially with how case 1 was presented and was intrigued how things would go down… only for case 2 and 3 to happen…But hey, I love Apollo so that’s something. (Weird thing to mention for me here but my favorite moment of Case 4 was literally the flashback Case of Phoenix Wright and maybe saved Case 4 for me and not the ending because..kristoph..) DD is a quite similar yet different story for me. Case 1 was presented real well and the rest of the cases after that kept me immersed to the plot and The Addition of Athena and Simon multiplied my enjoyment of DD tenfold. All the cases were at the very least enjoyable (case 3 and 4 being the climax)and the final case and the DLC made it even better for me. The story may have not been what people had wanted but I loved it to a certain extent. Despite this, DD is my 4th favorite mainline game because I love AA1 purely due to nostalgia (and the perfection that is 1-5), SOJ because of it’s cases (primarily 6-2 and 6-3) and it’s golden conclusion with 6-5, not to mention I would Argue that SOJ has the most content because of the DLC and the Asinine Attorney. And T&T because it’s T&T. (All these AA games are at the very least Awesome but it ain’t beating Shu Takumi’s Masterpiece Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective)
@@DerpyHiro OH YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO!! ITS MY FAVORITE GAME OF ALL TIME AND IT MAKES ME CRY EVERY TIME I FINISH IT. THE PORTS COME OUT ON JUNE 30TH SO LOOK FORWARD TO IT!!! (Or you could just emulate it or buy it physically. Just please play it….)
Honestly, I think Dual Destinies is a worst offender than Apollo Justice. At least there, AJ had a reason to be different bc bringing Phoenix back after T&T with nothing new would've been worse than giving him a new perspective. AJ still relies on Phoenix, but it's kind of a given since he's such a popular aspect of the franchise. DD and Spirit of Justice kind of proves this bc him reverting back to the status quo was so bad. If you aren't gonna justify him being here, then don't bring him back. Also, the making Athena a playable character just enhanced the issue bc we really didn't need her this soon. From what I heard, the creator for Apollo Justice didn't really work on Dual Destinies bc they were working on the Professor Layton crossover. The person who did lead DD ended up regressing the AJ plots and cast which just leaves bad taste in my mouth. It feels like a vanity project instead of actually knowing what the series needs.
I played dual destinies first, and I absolutely loved it. It's still my favorite game in the series, though I fully admit that im pretty blind to its critiscm, looking at it through rose colored glasses. And thats the thing- I actually played the games in a pretty wacky order: dual destinies, then apollo justice, halfway through spirit of justive, then the main trilogy, and im working my way through the great ace attorney now. And i actually love dual destinies and apollo justice! But honestly? I played them years apart, and i think thats for the best. In my mind, they're two very separate things, and capcom should have let them be that, and then started a proper trilogy with the new characters. As their own games, i absolutely love them. But as part of a trilogy.... i think it demerits both of them. And how they fall in the timeline really doesn't help. Basically, they feel very separate, and thats okay for me. If they had both been fully allowed to be their own adventures, with their own protagonists, I think they would have been even better- and having a decent timeskip would help. Forgive me if i got anything wrong, I haven’t played either of them for a while. But really, i dont think they're bad games, i think they just suffer from being drawn into a trilogy together. Maybe in a better universe, apollo justice and dual destinies would have each been an introduction to trilogies of their own. But still, im very happy with them in the way i played them, and both games, their characters, cases, and artstyles are very dear to my heart.
There is so MUCH to discuss when it comes to this topic (like there being bairly any gameplay in the final boss fight in AJAA or Trucy being treated like garbage bag where unneeded is thrown into when it comes to DD), however I would just like to state my current opinions on the games. AJAA is my least favorite game, however I don't openly hate and I actually agree with a lot of the points that AJAA defenders make. I just don't like it that Phoenix was forced into the game, thus potentialy ruining a really cool conflict between Apollo and The Rivales Family (as it stance now they're just glorified extras). I mean, in real life gangster in Ecuador anonymusly mailed bombs to journalists disguised as USB-sticks so imagin how insane the cases in AJAA could have been if we were fighting gangsters? However, just because I don't like AJAA doesn't mean that I'm a fan of DD. A sequel is supposed to expand on the previous instalment, not activley try to cover it up. It just reverds back to the orginal justice system without any explaination given (Tournabout Academy would have been a perfect place to explain it). Not just that but also also creates it's own loose ends, which don't even get adresed in SOJ. Not to mention that the final boss only becomes an active threat when the player reached the final 2 cases (I really wish they had some sort of involvement in case 2 and 3 in order to better forshadow their existence). I hope that AA7 adresses these loose plot points that didn't get any resolution and ties them up nicely.
Yea the transition between AJ and DD definitely had it's issues. Good point about making the final boss in DD involved in earlier cases. They needed more foreshadowing for sure. Using the Rivales Family is a pretty cool idea as well
@@DerpyHiro I'm pretty sure that SOJ's final boss is even more passive. It's like their not even the main antagonist ontill the final murder is commited
I absolutely adore Apollo Justice. The cases are great and I actually enjoy the in between Phoenix character. He has always been quirky so I wasn’t surprised. Klaus and Kristoph were great. Trucy is one of my favorite characters ever! I just could never get into Dual Destinies and Spirit Justice as much.
Pretty good video, I might have to watch more and comment. As for my own thoughts, since calm and rational AA discussion is a rarity that I love... I will agree that the fanbase is still pretty divided, now I don't hate a single game in this IP, they're all good, however both AJ and DD would be in the bottom half for me for entirely opposite reasons. I view AJ's main issue was that it couldn't figure out if it wanted to throw out the old and bring in the new, or if it still wanted to tell the story of Phoenix Wright, but without all of his previous supporting characters. I feel like it's due to this that you end up with likeable new character's, but they lack the screen time or depth that their AA1 counterparts have, so you have this weird paradox where I would love to have another game with more focus on these characters, BUT I would HATE for it to be in the exact same style as AJ was in, does that make sense? Meanwhile DD's main issue is that it's a case of "Classic Capcom (over)Correction" or CCC as I like to call it, but it still kinda commits the same style of flaws of AJ, but in a different manner, in AJ you introduced new characters but had the game focus around the old ones, in DD you have the old characters back, but the focus is now on the new characters. Cases in AJ were not up to par due to them not being very fun to play due to either interface challenges or drawn out gimmicks. cases in DD were not up to par due to lacking in any sort of challenge and feeling much shorter then they actually were, so you have two very flawed games that leaned too hard in one direction or the other, while I will always favor DD more since I really love Blackquill, neither of these are bad games but we just kinda have a situation where people tend to gloss over these flaws because they either preferred "changing things up" or a "return to form" more. the short version of my opinion of both is that AJ is different but not different enough to have been needing to exist, but it did introduce great concepts and character IDEAS that should've been in the spotlight more, while DD has a more focused narrative on its new characters so they get to shine more, but at the cost of being able to play the game on autopilot, hope you read this essay and I might type a few more of these on your other videos.
I talked very negatively about AJ and DD So for a change a pace I will talk about things I enjoy/love in AJ and DD Firstly AJ I like what they did with Phoenix He is smart collective, and calculated person and is behaving differently than Mia I like Apollo- he is funny typical energetic guy(he grew up for me) Klavier-ignoring development he is a great guy- finally a guy who is for the truth Kristoph-yes I said he is the worst final villain but I love how petty and intimidating he is(and that we did not break his black psyche locks) I like the perceive mechanic I like trucy very much DD I like Athena Blackquill is the best character in DD Athena backstory is very good And traumatizing Tenma Taro is a good defendant Jinxie is funny simetimes Starbuck is the best defendant in DD I kinda hard to find other good part for me honestly Aura blackquill is fine Edgeworth coming back was nice but just nice Ooo right Mood matrix Is a good mechanic but the game does not penalize you so you can use the trial and error method which is dumb
i love apollo justice, its my favorite game and character in ace attorney, but it felt wayyy to fast. i feel like it could have been so much better if they at least took some time to flesh out characters and their relationships with each other. for example, (spoilers for turnabout serenade & turnabout trump) when daryan was convicted, klavier didn't seem to mind whatsoever?? one of his best friends/colleagues/bandmates was a murderer and he didn't seem hurt at all. same with kristoph for both apollo and klavier. (also i hate how they just cut off the jurist system and hobo phoenix in the next games, it feels like it was just a waste of time to be honest, they could have done so much more with that, and phoenix just returns to an older and slightly more confident trilogy version of himself, i think that was done very badly) that's probably my biggest issues with it personally. i wish capcom would do a remake, maybe with some backstory foreshadowing but still following plot, but capcom literally hates its ace attorney fans lol
I'm definitely more in the AJ camp (although i quite like some of the elements in DD) as AJ is my favorite game, and DD did disapoint me in areas. Least annoyingly long AJ defense post, that doesn't even come close to cover all things relevant to it: Now assume you're Takumi: You're done with T&T, and you consider making another Ace Attorney game, but you want it to be significantly detached from the previous entries. However, upper management realize that Phoneix Wright is significantly recognizable, and so requires you to include him. Obviously a challenge, as Phoenix' arc between AA1 and AA3 of going from newbie to being recognized as a successful lawyer by his mentor is done already. (That said, upper mangement does always have significant restrictions as is, no matter the game) So... It's not strange at all to see then, why Takumi made Phoneix the way he is in AJ: Arguably the most interesting thing to do for Phoenix here, after having him experience significant wins, would be to have him experience a downfall. Now some may then say that the continuation of the series was then unnecessary, as a significant amount of things was resolved in T&T. However... and I guess this is the most controversial part of my comment... are they all resolved satisfyingly? I personally don't think so, as there are things with the overarching story of the trilogy and T&T especially that bothered me. To cut out the stuff that isn't relevant to the specific point I wanna to make here: There is a lack of recognition of the conflicts related to the Fey Clan as a systemic issue (meaning those issues inevitably would have happened given the nature of its structure and the behavior it encouraged) and focuses instead on interpersonal conflicts and portrays them in such a dramatic and reductive way, that I felt significantly manipulated by how the story presented itself. (This is fairly complicated to express but there's a great text by metalcicada that covers this and other issues in detail, while being quite the funny haha, here ya go: docs.google.com/document/d/10ABlT9kWLLYUbZPSRW5CPafl4_m0uZ9Axn2r1kFJLxU/edit Sidenote, I'm curious as to whether or not you've read this controversial analysis, DerpyHiro) Meanwhile, AJ responds to this, not only by having the prosecution's case logic only be possible through the biased justice system, but by using a structural solution to secure Kristoph's demise. Now, could these elements have been better executed? Yes, of course. In fact, if there's an issue I have with 4-4, it'd be how that theme is executed by Phoenix, and its significant lack of practical explanation. But it was especially refreshing to have far more of a recognition of systemic issues and solutions, after seeing how many conflicts were presented and resolved in the finale of T&T). Speaking of things being refreshing, AJ really does stand out among the rest of the series library of games. Trucy subverts the helpless assistant in distress trope during what is one of my favorite scenes in the series, where it's revealed that she kidnapped herself. Klavier, as you mentioned, is not nearly as antagonistic towards you, which is a breath of fresh air, as he came around when I started to wonder if every prosecutor was determined to be Edgeworth-esque. Kristoph, your mentor, being the culprit of the first case, as well as the main antagonist of the game of course. Ema works as a contrast, not only to her previous enthusiastic self, but to the enthusiastic Gumshoe, as she's transformed into quite the cynic not long after her career has begun. I could go on and on with minor characters as well, but you see my point. Each main cast members ability to subvert expectations, and therefore contribute with a fairly new experience, is largely why I absolutely love the main cast of the game. That said, I think there's more to them that I enjoy of course, espcially Kristoph, but I'd be here for a long time. The game also has mechanics and decisions in presentation that go unused in later entries. I really like the DS sprites but I think I especially like the updated HD sprites, as the outlines aren't as dark as the HD Trilogy ones. The HD Trilogy ones I think detach the character too much from its background. The music, while not always amazing, usually is, and has a very distinct sound and style to it. I also quite like the 3D presentations of the scene of the crime in 4-1 and 4-2. I also enjoy the new gameplay mechanics in 4-3 and 4-4. I take issue with some things, especially towards the end of this game. I do agree that Phoenix' friends should've probably been more present and supporting during this timespan, even if later games try to explain their absence. Despite my overall enjoyment with the case, there are aspects to Turnabout Serenade that makes me unintentionally laugh at it. But Turnabout Trump and Turnabout Corner are for me sincerely the strongest start to any Ace Attorney game, and kept me invested throughout the game, even through its weaker parts. I'm pretty sure I've expressed my thoughts fairly enough on this game, I know I've previously talked about character assassinations in a previous video of Hiro's videos for example. But idk, I might be back now and then and express my appreciation for the game, as well as criticize the elements which I think were not very well executed lol. (Btw, to anyone reading this, feel utterly free to reply and respond to any point but there's no need to insist that I'm "wrong" if the point of discussion is thoroughly up to interpretation) Also, as you mentioned it, I'll ad: I think it's no secret that defense attorneys aren't as well treated as prosecutors are, and so while the latter can get away with terrible actions here and there, defense attorneys whole moral character and ability to work in the courtroom is questioned once they do little in comparison. This would also explain his intensely cynical demeanor, to have been thrown out of the system while being witness to the acceptable misbehavior of others. Also consider letting me know if there are any typos that make this text difficult to read.
I will respond to this after I go outside just because it's a lot to read but I opened the doc and it's funny because I was planning on making a video about why Dahlia is the best Ace Attorney villain LOL
Ok I read it. AJ's main cast definitely does subvert expectations in a lot of ways. And yea it's easy to see how Phoenix is more cynical due to the harsh treatment of defense attorneys. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this part, "There is a lack of recognition of the conflicts related to the Fey Clan as a systemic issue (meaning those issues inevitably would have happened given the nature of its structure and the behavior it encouraged)" but I think that might be cleared up if I read your doc about Dahlia. I may read into it during the process of making my Dahlia video
@@DerpyHiro To be clear, the doc isn't mine, it's by metalcicada (on various social medias they go by that). Honestly think it might be my favorite analysis of anything Ace Attorney-related, mostly because I initially knew that I took issue with T&T's overarching story but didn't know how to put some of it into words.
It's not true that "we" "hate" Apollo Justice and DD because we don't like changes. I'm talking about real fans and not about Internet opinions (people love to jump on the popular hate bandwagon see JFA). AAI2 and the Great Ace Attorney are very appreciated and they are much more inovative than AJ so it's not about changes. AJ and DD are at the bottom list because of their flaws.They are not bad games,it's just that nobody asked for them. I mean let's be honest AJ is just a clone of PW and Trucy is a Maya's ersatz.And don't get me started on Athena and her horrible Mood Matrix. AJ second case is just a slight variation of Reunion and Turnabout,the DLC case in DD is a rip off of Turnabout Big Top. The last case of AJ is an unfinished mess (I believe Takumi wrote a follow-up for a sequel but don't quote me on this). I could write a book about the AJ and DD problems( again not bad games but it was quite a deception playing them).
The irony is that in 2024 Capcom asked fans who is their favorite character from the Apollo Justice trilogy was and here is the ranking : 1 - Miles Edgeworth (obviously x) ) 2 - Phoenix (apollo justice ace attorney version) 3 - Apollo Justice Now I don't know if it was DD and SOJ that got Apollo so high in the rankings....but I think that Capcom should have continued the game with what Shu Takumi would have wanted to convey for the sequel of AJ
I like Apollo Justice, but nothing lived up to 4-1. Case 2 was decent, case 3 was not. Case 4 was good but also kind of weird. What the heck is this mason system? Where did it come from? Why? Why does Apollo have pretty much nothing to do with his own game? It’s not terrible it’s just a weird and confusing direction. Dual destinies is pretty good. None of the cases are that amazing, but they’re all pretty good. Though the final case is the best.
Saying the case people have a problem with is succession is wild… I mean yah there are some valid criticisms of the mason system but it’s serenade everyone hates for being garbage while corner is kinda mid
Of course serenade is the most hated case in the game but at the time a poorly received 3rd case was common. The reason why Succession is important and contributes heavily to how people view Apollo Justice is because it answers all the questions we have about Phoenix and the overall story. If the answers are not satisfying, it will impact people's perception of the game to a heavy degree. Think about the prior games. Turnabout Goodbyes, Farewell my Turnabout and Bridge to the Turnabout are all very well received and give a satisfying conclusion. Turnabout Succession on the other hand, has very mixed reception that left a bad taste in some people's mouth.
I’m currently playing through DD just got to 5-4 when writing this so my opinion might change. I’m a pretty big fan of Apollo Justice and really enjoyed the game only had a few complaints being a lack of more triumph for Apollo because it didn’t feel satisfying to take down the final antagonist, Klavier not having more twisted feelings for having to take down his friend/band mate and his brother and I felt like 4-4 was abit messy but did wise there was a 5 case somewhere. I did really like the more mysterious Hobo Phoenix because we didn’t have access to his inter dialogue anymore. I really loved the use of the perceive mechanics trying to find people’s nervous tells it just fits so perfectly in games like Ace Attorney. I did love a lot of the characters in the game I’m enjoying Duel Destinys gameplay wise but not sure where the story is trying to go other than the dark history of the law topic mentioned in AJ. I like Athena and find a lot of her poses funny and character funny as a contrast to Apollo who is more reserved during the investigation portions, she is alot more emotional which plays into her mechanic. I like the emotion mechanic in the trials but not a fan of how it completely replaces perceive in the courtroom because a bird hates your bracelet. I do like finally being able to use it outside of the courtroom but the magatama is alot more challenging method than perceiving a tell so would prefer that. I am disappointed in the lack of Trucy because I really liked the dynamic her and Apollo have and wish she would join us on the adventure. Also not sure how I feel about Phoenix being in the game because there’s been a real lack of him so far outside of appearing in 4-1 and having a role outside of the courtroom in 4-3 it’s cool to see him as an attorney again but haven’t finished the game so not sure where it’s going yet. There’s just a few other nitpicks I have and that’s really the timeline of events with me being confused on when we are going into the present because 5-1 is set before 5-2/3/4 and just wondering when we are going to be in the present. When thinking about it I feel like adding Athena hurts other characters past characters because there is a lot of Athena focus it takes focus away from Trucy and Apollo because I was really ready for Apollo to be the new main character after AJ with Phoenix as a mentor but now we have 2 characters in the driver seat with a clear bigger focus on Athena than Apollo. Again still a fan of both of these games with me reaching the end of DD soon so maybe my opinion will change in the future and maybe it will change again when I get to Spirit of Justice Edit: I just realized when playing 5-4 that only the beginning of the case takes place before 5-1 so the rest of the case takes place after 5-1
Apollo Justice is our group's least favorite game by a wide margin (though, we don't hate it... it's just the least good) Speaking on behalf of the group, we're in a pretty unique camp since all of us only really got into the series around the last two years. We loved the formula changes such as the shifting formula, new kind of prosecutor, and of course Hobo Phoenix. Heck, we love the music and thought all the cases were definitely in our top half (except Serenade, which is at the very very bottom) That being said, Apollo Justice suffers from having all of its minor characters be totally unmemorable, especially compared to what the other games have to offer. Other than Guy Eldoon and maaaaaybe Wocky, none of them ever feel like they have a voice and it feels like they're blank canvases half the time. Brushel & Stickler are intentionally oddballs, Plum & Winfred barely get any screentime, Orly is funny but is pushed aside almost immediately, Machi and Lamiroir are fine but they just feel really generic despite the potential of having foreign perspectives, and Alita & Daryan just don't stand out from the rest of villains. Oh, and I guess Zak and Valant are just jerks. The major characters are all great, but the world around them feels so lifeless and dull that we can't help but be bored. Dual Destinies on the other hand often goes into an almost cartoonish level of characterization sometimes... but to its credit, it at least it makes the world feel more alive and lived in. Dual Desinies is probably in our Top 5 favorites (unsure where since we just finished playing them so recency bias is still fresh in our minds) but damn the game was fun!
Agreed with the points about characterization. Some characters like Alita, Daryan and Machi don't make me feel any type of way which is a shame. Also agreed with loving the new formula changes that Apollo Justice makes. I hope you guys have fun playing the rest of the series!
Man, hearing you talk about Apollo Justice was such a trip back for me. I'm on both sides. I really didn't like what happened with Phoenix Wright, and trust me, I REALLY mean that, but I STILL love Apollo Justice. His character, the music, and Klavier were just classic Ace Attorney fun, and Phoenix still somehow turns out alright in the end. I've never hated and loved a game so much, never able to form a real opinion to this day, which is bizzare.
going to say honestly im at this point in life where i went through all of the original ace attorney games till apollo justice and i think that the main problem after apollo justice was that the original creator of the series Shu Takumi left the capcom so the writing of the new team started to go down and that probably one of the reasons why they wrote phoenix more like in the original trilogy
Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice is like Dragon Ball Super. They were influenced by sales and fan service. Which is to say they are still good but not how the original vision is. Great Ace Attorney is the true follow up to Apollo Justice if you wonder what it could have been if they completed the trilogy.
yeah, DD is my favorite game of the main line (but edgeworth's duology and tgaa chronicles are much better imo) i really like nearly everything in the game, including that hobo phoenix was gone lol i'm not a fan *at all* of what they did with phoenix's character in AJ, it felt like i didn't know nick anymore, it was a totally different character. this together with turnabout sucession existing are my biggest reasons to not like AJ (the game, i love apollo) but i don't hate AJ, there are some points i *really* like in the game, klavier for example. to me it was really cool to have a nice prosecutor instead of the mean ones we had all the time!! trucy also is a character i really like. but honestly, while playing AJ, there was only one case that i *really* felt like i was having fun: turnabout serenade. maybe i am the only person ever who really like this case but maybe it can be because i love klavier so much? idk. but apollo justice as a character was developed better in DD and SOJ, mainly SOJ. i only started to love apollo after playing those two games. it really is a shame that AJ has apollo's name in the title but it doesn't feel like it's *his* game. also doesn't feel as a phoenix's game. but instead it feels like another third thing that i don't know how to describe.
@@DerpyHiro IKR i'm the only person i know who likes turnabout serenade unironically 😭 maybe because i normally tend to like the third cases in aa (turnabout big top being the one and only exception)
6 months late, but I'm a fan of the trilogy and DD, but I also really like Apollo as a character too, so it really feels like I walk away with a W regardless
This is longer than I thought read at your own discretion 😭: Honestly I think people are to hard on Apollo he's supposed to be a rookie like Phoenix. I think most of the hate he gets comes with Capcom misuse of the characters. I do understand people when they say Apollo doesn't feel like the main character in his game but I disagree personally cause most of the events that happen in the game happen because of Apollo. Phoenix said it himself him outwitting Kristoph would've been impossible if he didn't have a lawyer that wouldn't tolerate injustice on his side aka Apollo. So what if he needed help a couple times from people so did Phoenix but nobody criticizes him for that. Apollo still solved all those cases using the knowledge he gained Phoenix and was an integral part of getting Kristoph arrested. Especially in the final case. PS I love his young and aggressive personality compared to Phoenix goofy and calm one I personally don't see it when people call him a Phoenix Jr also he has the best pursuit theme fight me. They set him up to be a great character that's why I'm upset in DD he gets only one case and spends the entire time moping until the end about his best friend who we never heard of and who they expect us to care about. The whole him doubting Athena thing I did like cause it put their friendship to the test but it could've been executed better. The only problem I have with hobo Phoenix is how he got disbarred like I get Phoenix should've been smarter in accepting evidence from a kid but he's always been a trusting person so I don't hold it against him to hard but he got disbarred for presenting forged evidence.....are you fucking kidding me. Edgeworth,Franziska,Manfred presented forged evidence for years and all they got was a penalty but God forbid a Defense Attorney does it. Besides that I love hobo Phoenix personally like a lot of people say his character was complete in Trials and Tribulations it's upsetting what happened to him yes but he's still the badass he always was. He's basically Apollo Mia (with a hint of Godot in there) plus he's attractive af❤️. His change of personality may be jarring but I think that's more of the fault of telling not showing. I mean considering his entire career was ripped away from him I'm not suprised he acts the way he does but he still had the heart of a lawyer. I don't even blame him for using forged evidence in the first case he's not a lawyer anymore so he couldn't get in trouble for it plus you gotta fight fire with fire sometimes Kristoph used forged evidence so why can't Phoenix. Kristoph used it for the wrong reasons, Phoenix used it for the right reasons so there's no Phoenix is no better than Kristoph argument to be made DD has some amazing cases but legit the only problem I have was the characters of the Wright Anything Agency. Phoenix got his personality reset to trilogy phoenix and just completely scrapped Apollo Justice Phoenix, Apollo got hit with HORRIBLE writing, and Athena I love her but she only has 1 case and doesn't really feel like the center of it. The game tries to split itself between the 3 main characters so they don't get that much screentime to shine. I feel like it would've been more impact full if Phoenix just remained a mentor and let Apollo and Athena have their times. Another thing is they scrap previous characters to much they did it in DD and AJ. I saw another comment saying this but if they were gonna split the game between them they should've did better characterization like edgeworth for phoenix, klavier for apollo,and blackquill for athena their rivals bring out the best in them. Ok sorry for the essay and for the word jumble but I love sharing my opinions on videos like this I hope at least some of what I said made sense
I don't think DD made Apollo dirty. On the contrary, compared with being manipulated and used by Phoenix in AJ, Apollo in Dual Destinies becomes an anti-hero different from Phoenix. Take his suspicion of Athena in Chapter 5 as an example. I think Apollo's action teaches Phoenix and Blackquill a good lesson. Tell them that "Believing and protecting your friend's innocence" is not inconsistent with "Finding the truth".
I'm not the biggest fan of Apollo Justice, but I still think it's good. On the other hand, I found Dual Destinies boring and didn't care for Athena at all (despite being a fan of every single other "assistant" in the franchise), and I was so mad they decided to erase everything from AJ. Klavier not being very present is ok, and I get why we needed a new detective, but Trucy ? Why can't she be part of the story ? And I know some people dislike hobo Phoenix but they just changed him back to please them, completely ignoring both the people who liked him and the fact that it makes no sense at all. I just think they should have accepted their choice of changing him and worked from there instead of ignoring it. So yeah, DD was definitely not one of my favourites Simon was great tho
Yea they definitely had a tough time planning DD. A new team took over the main series when it was time to make DD so the lack of direction makes sense
Apollo Justice was a jolt to a lot of fans thanks to introducing a new protagonist, meanwhile Ace Attorney 5 got flack for all bit disregarding a lot of the set up and story from Apollo Justice. Personally, I do love both games, but in different ways, they both fall short of the original trilogy.
Apollo was my first Ace Attorney experience, so I didn't go in with any sort of attachment to the old cast, or any pre-conceived expectations. I liied the game, but still came away feeling like Apollo wasn't really a character as much as he was a player insert. I expected the original trilogy to be the same way, so I was kind of surprised how emotionally invested Phoenix was in his games. That said, I still think Apollo is, in some ways, the best written game in the series, at least to that point. Its characters were more layered and its themes were more complex. It just drops the ball at the end because Apollo is so irrelevant to the story. It isn't my favorite game in the series, but I think there's a lot to appreciate. Then Dual Destinies came out and it was a complete disaster IMO. Its 3 main characters all jockying for attention lent the whole story an unfocused feel. And the narrative, while having some decent setup, lacked subtlety and suffered from awkward scripting.
Both games suck: AJ gives Apollo no character development and hardly any connection to the story, outside of the half-sibling plot twist, which is barely even brought up again. Phoenix suffers from character assassination and becomes a literal criminal, forging evidence despite being disbarred… for presenting forged evidence. The game also tries way too hard to be dark, to the point where it becomes edgy, meaning it becomes almost impossible to relate to the characters. DD tries to fix some of AJ’s issues, but the good parts of DD are completely overshadowed by its numerous flaws. The story contains no subtlety whatsoever and only tells; it never shows. Athena is a terrible character with no originality outside of gimmicks and nonexistent character growth. The ending is incredibly poorly written and convenient, as Capcom chickened out of making Athena guilty and created a new culprit out of thin air. In short, they both suck. The main series ended with T&T, and you can’t convince me otherwise.
Oh my god I despise Dual Destinies. Athena, Blackquill and Bobby are nice, but not good enough for me to finish when every single side character falls flat, and I especially question their decision to include THREE PLAYABLE MAIN CHARACTERS when Apollo was already overshadowed in his debut. Cases and culprits are boring, characters are either too bland or too over the top, there are only two AA games I didn't finish due to burnout, that being I1 and DD, and that really says something. The dark age of the law plotline is just... eugh. The Dark Age™ is supposed to be started by the loss of faith in the law, and to solve it, some random detective got declared guilty as a legendary spy when nearly everyone else involved in the trial had some connections with Phoenix, who actually had a history of forgery... yeah not sure how that restored the faith in the law. What I hate the most, though, is how it ruined AJ's reputation with it. I argue that AJ brought forth plenty of interesting side plots that would have been wonderful if they are actually expanded upon (cue 6-2). Like TGAA1, it's not really supposed to be a standalone, and while there are problems, it did serve its role as a new introduction pretty well. All DD needed to do is to EXPAND, and yet they chose to DISCARD EVERYTHING. That's what caused the feeling of a lack of completion in AJ: they're not supposed to be resolved there, but in upcoming games instead. But DD never resolved anything. Not in a satisfactory way. And so AJ is left in this extremely awkward state where everyone hates it for what's not even its own fault. Okay, sorry for the rant. Have a nice day.
I honestly dislike the original apollo justice game, just because the cases are kinda bland and the characters are not really that interesting. But i absolutely LOVE DD and SOJ because of how we get to know Apollo more about his backstory and how he became a lawyer he is now. The cases were amazing. And the characters were really well written, the dramaticness and cutscenes were absolutely the cherry on top. Overrall the rest of the games after AA apollo justice is really fantastic.
I personally love AA1, AA3, DD, and TGAAC. I’m currently playing SoJ and enjoy it so far. But AJ and JFA just feel way too hit or miss for my tastes. I like the AJ characters, I would like to see more of them, but the execution just felt sloppy to me
Tbh it doesn't help that Apollo gets the worst cases in the game. In AJ 2nd was good all and all but the 3rd omg that was so frustrating and the 4th one is more of a Phoenix case than Apollo's. And in DD we only get the 2nd one which somehow even with that setting it feels like a snorefest and doesn't help that the bad guy is spiilered in the opening scene. SoJ is pretty good and we finally get a moment of triumph for Apollo but...Now we have Athena with the same problem as Apollo, hopefully they won't take 3 games to fully explore her.
I didn't like AJ or DD. The major changes never bothered me, because if I wanted the games to be like the original trilogy, I would just PLAY THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY! My main problem with these two games is that the cases just SUCK MASSIVE HORSE PP! In AJ, the game peaks early. Like... WAY too early! Turnabout Trump GOES HARD! Unlike other AA Tutorials, this case KNOWS FULL WELL that you're a veteran Ace Attorney player! It wastes ZERO TIME with information you already know, opting instead to give tutorials the middle finger by MAKING YOUR MENTOR THE BAD GUY! After the first case, AJ only gets worse from here. It's bad enough already that case 1 sets your expectations WAY too high. To make matters worse, AJ does ANOTHER subversion with the Ace Attorney Franchise... where instead of being forced to play ONE filler case per game, you have to play... TWO filler cases... hoorayyyyyyyyyyy... DOESN'T THIS SOUND LIKE SO MUCH FUN?! As if that STILL wasn't bad enough, Turnabout Serenade also manages to be the WORST case in ALL of Ace Attorney! (This includes Turnabout Big Top) After wasting your time with Turnabout SUCKY-LAME, the final case isn't that much better. Not only is the jurist system lead by a biased jury (let alone someone who allegedly forged evidence), the time machine lets you present FUTURE evidence... into the PAST... that's not confusing at all... Turnabout Succession might as well not be canon, and the ending is anticlimactic af. If you wanna play Apollo Justice, play the first case and NOTHING ELSE! Dual Destinies on the other hand... yeah there's nothing going for it. Athena is a cool character, but she's clearly made for marketing purposes and nothing else. Why go through the effort to make a new protagonist if she's gonna get shafted in BOTH GAMES! Also, as someone who hated Apollo Justice, I would've LOVED for DD to be a continuation of AJ, because it would explain all the plotholes and made AJ NOT COMPLETELY POINTLESS! Just give Athena her own game, dammit! As for the cases, none of them are very good. DD was confirmed to be written by novice writers, and it SHOWS! The first case goes back to being "generic tutorial", because if you can't top Turnabout Trump, why bother trying? Like AJ, two of the cases are also COMPLETE FILLER! Aristotle Means could've been an interesting villain who challenges Hobo Phoenix's motives, as well as whether he's deserving to be a lawyer again. But NOOOOOOOOOOO, the ends don't justify the means, unless you're PHOENIX THE GOOD GUY! Don't you just LOVE HYPOCRISY?! Cases 4 and 5 could've just been one case, but still, it's trying to substitute good writing with FANSERVICE and REFERENCES... even though this game is supposed to be DESIGNED FOR NEW PLAYERS! Not only does the final case rip off the DL-6 Incident, but the Phantom is not a very good villain. His identity is never revealed, even though this game is a MYSTERY where you're SUPPOSED TO HAVE ANSWERS! (The infamous "No Spoilers" rule does NOT do Dual Destinies ANY favors!) People say that AJ and DD games are hated because they're different. I love it when games try to be different, but AJ and DD aren't even good games IN A VACCUM. They stand ZERO CHANCE on their own. In order to be a good Ace Attorney Game, it NEEDS to have GOOD CASES. It's as simple as that. Spirit of Justice is by far the best game in the Apollo Ace Attorney "Trilogy" (if you can even call it that...). Not only does it DARE to be DIFFERENT, but the cases are also DAMN GOOD! While the Foreign Turnabout doesn't TRUMP Turnabout Trump, it's good at being a tutorial, and a standalone story. The Magical Turnabout actually makes Apollo and Trucy good characters, and it feels more like an Apollo Justice case than... well... Apollo Justice... so good job, guys! (If The Magical Turnabout replaced Turnabout Corner, it would DRASTICALLY improve AJ.) Rite of Turnabout is subversive AF (even with the Maya is the Defendant Cliche), and even the FILLER case is good on its own. Turnabout Revolution is a final case that can actually hold a candle to the TRILOGY final case! Moral of the Story: Good Cases = Good Game. WHO WOULD'VE THOUGHT?!
My issue is actually with the writing. DD's writing tanked compared to the trilogy an AJAA. It's far more childish and over the top, and not in fun ways. AJAA's writing is about on par with the trilogy, albeit with a more cynical edge, but DD feels like a parody of an Ace Attorney game. Despite this, I ended up liking Athena a lot and Apollo is easily the best returning character in DD by far. Phoenix's writing in particular plummets the farthest in DD but it's pretty pretty bad in SoJ. Everyone says he goes back to his trilogy self but he's a very flanderized version of it that loses all the charm and snark of the original.
Precisely. In the original trilogy, even characters like Oldbag and Larry have their special charm despite being somewhat over-the-top. DD's cast of side characters are either downright boring or way too stereotypical and overdone. They have no personality traits aside from their "quirks". And don't even get me started about the culprits...
AJ's problem isn't hobo Phoenix, it's Apollo himself. He's such a nothing protagonist with no goals or motivations of his own. I think Apollo is also the worst part of DD, and I blame that mostly on AJ giving him nothing to work with. SoJ was the first game to make Apollo compelling for me, but of course part of what makes him compelling is tied up in the series worst prosecutor.
I consider myself a fan of Apollo, I like him more than Phoenix (I don't hate him, I just prefer Apollo). I like both Athena and Blackquil and I think their story has interesting things, but... Why do you put these two in the fifth game instead of finishing Apollo's story? What's more, if we remove Athena from SoJ, the game remains practically the same. Why put a character with whom you are not going to do anything in the next game? I think that if we changed the order of DD and SoJ and used the DLC, to explain what happened between AJ and SoJ, the triology would improve significantly.
Well, i have to put my opinions tougether yet I can only say that both games have good and bad ideas and is kinda personal see what hit amd what miss PD: i just finish a 4 hours video about how bad is dual destinies XD
Turnabout Succession was such a bad way to end an otherwise great game that i can't really blame them for not knowing how to follow up on it, it's such a mess of a final case
Granted these games do have their flaws but I will agree that DD is probably the weakest. At least SOJ tries to improve on it but it did a flanderization of the charcters that were brought back like Maya for example.
Honestly, I don't care about any of the flaws surrounding Dual Destinies. It's still my favorite game in the franchise primarily for giving us Simon Blackquill.
As a person who hate AJ and DD simultaneously this hits hard for me This is my opinion about those two games I dont like AJ cause of how they handled phoenix disbarrment I dont like Kristoph(he is the weakest villain) Also Klavier is the worst WRITTEN prosecutor which does not help Cases(except trump) are bad In Corner everything is forgettable(except Phoenix getting hit by a car) the panties jokes overstayed their welcome Serenade(the worst case in AA franchise) I dont want to talk about it I just dont Succession is very underwhelming Mason system took so much time to the point that wanted to finish this game as soon as possible cause I was bored When it comes to DD well Phoenix being back for me is a bad move He should have been like Mia Im not against Athena being here Its just she is so Underutilized SHE HAS ONE FRICKIN CASE Sure the story does serve(unlike Apollo) But I would rather have a character like Apollo in AJ than Athena in DD The worst part is that in DD Athena being in the background is VERY NOTICEABLE Unlike Apollo with the story(you only notice it at the end, with Athena from the 2nd case) Why Didnt Athena take the stand in DLC and the 5th case as a LEADER?!! Also clay terran(I could care less about him and his connection to Apollo) Why didnt Capcom created interactions with Clay?!! Also most cases sucked Countdown is boring,Athena is pushed as A Assistant,culprit sucks, it drags a little bit Monstrous is the worst case in DD This case is literally a Poor copy Of Turnabout sisters Culprit is a ripoff of redd white,there is blackmail involved,the witness is in cahoot with the culprit,The culprit keeps incriminating themselves in the testimony The mentioned something when should not have etc You can find a lot of examples The case is tedious and drags a lot, Academy is not interesting(almost the worst in DD) Cliche Friendship dilemna, culprit is obvious and horribly written The case drags on and on, And ofc the nail in the coffin in Academy KLAVIER GAVIN HIMSELF Bringing him was an insult to fans He is not important, a pathetic excuse of fan service The cosmic turnabout is fine Short but fine and that is it Turnabout for Tomorrow is Well I dont like it Because Again Cause of CLAY TERRAN AND ATHENA She is not used as a leader(ESPECIALLY AGAINST THE PHANTOM) Clay I already mentioned why Also I dont like the Phantom as a final villain(he just does not fit for a final villain) They did not explore him properly And that is it Those games are good but for AA standards they are horrible
@@DerpyHiro actually I hate AJ more than DD I just wrote so much stuff about AJ in previous videos and this is my first about DD For me AJ is the worst AA game DD the 3rd worst(2nd is Miles Investigations)
@@DivideBy0_ well Soj for me its the 4th best AA game I liked all the cases 1st case is way better than 5-1 its established worldbuilding,the laws in khurain etc I like Ahlbi I like the divination seance and the culprit Oh boy- I love the culprit He is so entertaining and probably my fav 1st culprit(Dahlia and Kristoph dont count) Magical turnabout- the best 2nd case in AA case itself is very good Short but it is advantageous here, Culprit is very good,Nahyuta is good(I am one of Nahyuta's fans-yes I know he is not the best but I like him anyway) I like the development for Trucy(finally she got it) the Sisters(Bonnes I think) were entertaining) and I liked thr brought Ema back Rite of Turnabout I like this case very much We get so see Maya again(even tho she is Arrested AGAIN) I liked that we got to spend time with Rayfa I liked the mystery of the case The plot twist about Tahrust commiting suicide is vey good and emotional I am grateful that Divination Seance has some part in the story in the case I love Buff(he is larry counterpart vut better) Now the things I did not like Behleeb being the culprit We works but I think the case would be better if we cross-examined her Maya being Arrested Again And the case can drag in some parts The Turnabout Storyteller- The worst case in SOJ but because its filler but as a stand alone case is good I Like Uendo-very interesting witness (he has DID) I like that Simon is our side Geiru is fine just the motive sucks Nahyuta(he was the worst here but I was not pissed just confused) I dont like Bucky he was annoying Turnabout Revolution Better finale than 5-5 I love Dhurke and his connection with Apollo I like all characters here I love Paul Atishon He was vey funny-I was laughing my a** off when he was talking I was shocked that you are going against Phoenix(in a good way) I like the twist about Dhurke(you knoe which one) I am fond of Garan She is not the best but way better than Phantom She is a solid Villain Nahyuta obviously I like We got great development from Rayfa And Im loving that Apollo Stayed in Khurain to carry his father Legacy The parts I dont like The length(the could split the case in two parts but Im used to long cases so this one is fine) Amara(she is fine but kinda annoying) Maya part in the story She feels like a plot device in this game for me And that is it. SOJ is a big improvement from DD This is My opinion
I’m a huge fan of Phoenix Wright and I have a hard time letting him go but that’s just a a flaw of mine, but eventually they gonna have to let him go or put him in the mentor’s seat. I’m not sure if I will continue the games after that (I’ve got attachment issues)but I think it’s best overall for the main series game. Honestly the main problem is Shu Takumi didn’t want to continue after AA3. The higher ups at Capcom forced him to do AA4. What they should have done was have AAJ and DD done by the same team. Had they done that it would feel less disjointed between the two but I enjoyed both AJ and DD. I just think people have a hard time letting go of the original trilogy.
I'll admit, I'm extremely biased towards the modern games is because I am an Athena and Apollo fan, and I unabashedly enjoyed AA6. Aj was an interesting game for me, with hits and misses, I feel like the writers were thinking too much about money (Phoenix appearance lol) than they are trying to tell the good story with Apollo in the centre
I like both games, to be honest while I like AJ Phoenix I prefer DD Phoenix. I like the “dad” role he has with Apollo and Athena (yes I’m aware he has Trucy too). I also think Blackquill might be one of the best prosecutors in the series (Klavier is a close second). AJ Phoenix works well for that game but I’m very happy he got his badge back. I also don’t think it ruins the OG Trilogy since it feels like this is a new chapter in his life and the time skip makes it feel fairly separate. Overall both games are great and I really love them but I do prefer DD a bit more and I honestly don’t see a lot of people praising this game a whole lot.
If capcom ever tries to release AA7, they should just kept Athena + Phoenix as her mentor for the most part, try to bring and explore her arc before bringing another character more to the table Otherwise just remove her altogether and put Phoenix as MC again, it's way better than sticking a character just for filler chapters
They divided them because the fanbase has no media Literacy and critical thinking skills ( look at how they talk about hobo Phoenix ) and can't let go of its nostalgia to the three first games We're talking about the fandom who rivals Danganronpa in how toxic its shippers are, I'm not expecting smart people
As someone whose favorite game IS Apollo Justice (next to TGAA), I'd say the biggest issue for me is not having Phoenix act as more of a mentor. Yes, he IS a mentor to Apollo and Athena, but as he stands now, he doesn't really let the other two get the spotlight they need. Getting his badge back is fine, but I would prefer after that point having Apollo and Athena head most of their cases (keep the defense and assistant role in court) switching up who gets to be whose investigation assistant (switch it up between Apollo, Athena and Trucy), and having Phoenix stay in the office but offering advice when you're stuck or even just to talk to during important parts without having him interfere in court would probably feel better because then he retains that smooth intelligence he had in AJ and he gets to play the role Mia played in the trilogy. Just like how Edgeworth is too busy being a chief prosecutor to consistently appear in court, Phoenix is the one running the office in the background and showing his new lawyers the ropes.
This would retain his AJ personally but it would also make cases in which he -does- appear feel more impactful - maybe he has to appear in the middle of court during a final case to provide a much needed hand when the gang is stuck, but still be there as an assistant and give the spotlight to Apollo or Athena, probably jump in as an assistant if the other isn't available like Mia was whenever she inhabited Maya or Pearl's body. I also very desperately want to see Klavier back and feel like he would be a good character to have during Apollo's cases, alongside Blackquill for Athena, and maybe even switching up those prosecutors could lead to something interesting as well (let Athena face Klavier in court!).
Honestly, my favorite example of something they did right with Phoenix is in SoJ case 5, with Apollo and Phoenix during the first half. If you know, you know. It was a VERY different thing, but it was EXTREMELY satisfying.
yes we need more Apollo and Athena. Phoenix is done, he can still be a lawyer but I hope he isn't a playable character
Yeah, i remember the immense backlash to AJ changing the main character. I don`t know for certain, if it was a contributing factor, but i hardly believe Shu Takumis departure as a director and writer afterwards being a mere coincidence. And well, what else would a new writer think after seeing this? The loud fans got what they wanted, much to the series detriment....
“People hates Apollo Justice at first, because he isn't Phoenix Wright.”
“People hates Athena Cykes at first, because she isn't Maya Fey.”
--Phoenix Wright Trilogy crazy fans in a nutshell.
I like Apollo better than Phoenix lol.
Disagree, Maya wasn’t gonna be in DD anyways. But poor Trucy got sidelined after only getting one game for a two lawyer system that doesn’t work and feels squished
There's something deeply ironic about how AA4 ended in a case literally called turnabout succession about building new things out of the past, only for the next game in the series to be held back by trying to live in the series' past.
That and how it's supposed to be Apollo's game but they completely sidelined him
@@slobertooth1358 I don't think it's fair this to be such a consistent hard criticism against AJ. It acts like AJ was supposed to be a standalone game with no sequels, when it very clearly left things to develop in future games. Blame Dual Destinies for completely abandoning any ideas or characterization the game set up in favour of nostalgia baiting and padding with new characters for marketing.
Phoenix wasn't massively important or characterised in his debut, either. Apollo had an interesting set-up as a rookie lawyer developing in a new, changing legal world.
@@Baileeeeeyyy I think they're talking about DD
@@BaileeeeeyyyExcept ot is. Phoenix at least got to shine in his game whilst Apollo got nothing. Add on to the fact that Phoenix’s disbarment was horribly handled and thus makes everything about him a chore and AJ completely fails both Apollo and phoenix
Personally I think part of the problem is that AJ did just enough to allow for a return to the status quo but not enough to explain why the new version was intrinsically better. What does it matter to the player whether the judge or an unseen jury determines the fate of your client? It was the Great Ace Attorney games that made the jury relevant, not AJ. And unfortunately it also underserved Apollo himself by giving him no character arc and making the central mystery of the game “Why did Phoenix get disbarred?”.
I’ll acknowledge that DD also gave Apollo the short end of the stick, but it did at least give him a character arc. And it acknowledged the damage Kristoph did to the legal system in an interesting, if clumsy way. Frankly as a sequel to the original trilogy I thought it succeeded far more than AJ did.
The biggest problem I see in Apollo Justice onward is a lack of focus. The writers clearly wanted to tell a new story without Phoenix, but he was popular enough that management wouldn't let them ditch him for a new protagonist. To please both groups they tried to fit Phoenix into a story with a new protagonist, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. Adding Phoenix to Apollo Justice made it inevitable that Apollo was overshadowed by him. While some of the scenes with Phoenix were amazing in that game, I think the overall trade-off wasn't worth it.
They repeated the same mistake with Dual Destinies and Athena. She has to compete with Phoenix and Apollo for screen-time, so all of them get a lot less development.
What they should have done is pick a path and commit. Either tell a new story with Phoenix, or take the risk of having a new protagonist and ditch Phoenix. Doing that wouldn't please everyone, but at least the quality of the product would be a lot better. By trying to please everyone, they ended up pleasing no one because the story became a convoluted mess.
Yea since AJ and DD were made by different teams, there was a lack of direction for the series. It feels like no one really knew how to progress with the series and thus DD doesn't feel like a true sequel to AJ
@@DerpyHiro
I see, that explains why Phoenix has such a massive difference in character and ability between Apollo Justice and Dual Destinies.
Yeah, I always felt the series went downhill when I saw Apollo Justice, and the fact they forget everything what happened after the trilogy.
No mention or Iris, Franziska etc.
It's why I don't really consider the games Apollo Justice, DD and SoJ games canon compared to the trilogy and the Investigations games.
Haven't played DD (only seen case 1) or SoJ, but I'm planning to try them, when they come out.
So I might change my mind, I'm not sure though.
I still love the mechanics of the games and such, but wow, did they ruin such a good story after the trilogy with that decision and throwing everything away.
Not to mention, Dual Destinies was supposed to be a game for new players, but then as the game progresses, we get moments that would only please older players and confuse newer players. It would've made a LOT more sense for Klavier to replace Edgeworth as a way to make Klavier not seem pointless, AND it would satisfy newer players as well as the older players. But NOOOOOOO, we GOTTA put Edgeworth in the game so Trilogy Purists can get five seconds of hype! Again, they are trying to have their cake and eat it too.
Spirit of Justice didn't really have this problem. Unlike AJ and DD, SOJ knew what it was, and it knew what it wanted to be.
I think the way Capcom should've handled it is:
Keep Phoenix as the mentor.
He's given a chance to get his badge back, but he decides to stay a mentor to the new generation.
Dual Destinies could be playing as both Apollo and Athena, having a case that for each of them, and Phoenix still be the mentor to both.
Spirit of Justice is a little more tricky starting point.(due to starting with Phoenix)
My idea is Phoenix visiting Maya, but gets caught up with whole trial business, so he calls Apollo to come and help.(which gives Apollo a reason to be there from the outset and face his brother figure)
Athena can stay back in Japanifornia with Trucy and Blackquill can be the prosecutor for her.(Athena will get the calmer trials and Apollo story focused)
I think that's one way they could've done the Apollo/Athena trilogy with Phoenix in it.
I love both Athena and Apollo, what I feel went wrong was too much was going on during AJ,DD and SOJ, and what probably needed to happen and needs to happen in the future is if Capcom plan on continuing with these characters is to increase the number of cases from 5 to maybe 6,7 or even 8 so that everyone has time in the spotlight hell maybe give each character their own prosecutor ie Phoenix and Edgeworth, Apollo and Klavier and Athena and Blackquill and have cases between the two of them with some mixing up for some fun. I feel AA was fine with the sequel trilogy it just needed for cases or more time
Personally, I think they should take Phoenix out of the equation to give Apollo and Athena more cases and more time to shine. Phoenix can still be in the games but not a playable character. I think increasing the amount of cases would just be too much of a workload and tough on the creators
@@DerpyHiro Ay maybe take a page from the beginning of DD, or case 5 of SOJ and have him do minor parts of cases as you know a mentor would in tricky times like with what Mia did in 1-3 but the main case is Apollo’s or Athena’s. I’d just kill for a full out Athena game cause I love 5-3 and 6-4 so much
7-8 cases is a lot! But I guess it WOULD give everyone a time in the spotlight as you say...
I just think they'd be too lazy to do it? Or just, don't want to do it?
I like both games very much, i just really wish Phoenix got a better arc in D.D. Maybe starting the game without his badge but getting it on 2° or 3° case would be better.
Also i like Trilogy Phoenix but it sucks that his personality reverted back. His pretty old now, his an experienced and respected lawyer, feels weird for him to be the same as on his first cases. Also Apollo's style matches a LOT with phoenix, specially with how they handle trials, so it would be nice to have more different lawyers (like a more calm/collected phoenix) to mix things up
Also justice for Trucy, they did her dirty in D.D. she was such a cool assistant
Yea I think they should've handled Phoenix's personality switch better in DD. I don't mind him getting his badge back right away but I'd rather have Athena take that first case instead of Phoenix taking over. And yea what happened to Trucy was rough
At least Trucy got some spotlight in SoJ's second and fifth case
I like Apollo's character development in Dual Destinies. Compared with being manipulated and used by Phoenix in AJ, Apollo in Dual Destinies becomes an Anti-hero different from Phoenix. Take his suspicion of Athena in Chapter 5 as an example. I think Apollo's action teaches Phoenix and Blackquill a good lesson. Tell them that "Believing and protecting your friend's innocence" is not inconsistent with "Facing the fact and finding the truth".
Yea I think Apollo's mindset is good and he really helped the other characters see a different perspective
SOJ undoubtedly worsened this situation. If SOJ was a game centered by Phoenix and Athena, everyone would happily forget about AJ (regardless of game or character).
Another aspect in which AJ changed the formula was with how in AJ there are a lot of unanswered questions regarding the main story line, but all of this feels intentional. The obvious one is the topic of Apollo and Trucy, but there's more, they even made a full case in a later game exclusively devoted to an unresolved topic around troupe gramarye. There's also the mistery of the black psyche locks and the accident involving Thalasss, which never get resolved or explained in the game and are left open for fan theories
Funnily enough Investigations 1 has a lot of this as well, particularly in cases 3 and 5 with the main story in that game, and then for investigations 2 they do a complete 180 with case 5 from that game trying to leave absolutely no stone unturned and tell the player every single detail of what happened from the start, which in my opinion leads to a dense case, but I think the consensus is that people like this latter option better
Yea I think the unresolved plot points for Apollo Justice is pretty cool. It felt like a part 1 to something more grand
I think it's important in a story to leave some mysteries unsolved, since that often makes a story more memorable. Though I think they really screwed that up AJ since I barely remember anything from that game, although I think that's because, like another commenter pointed out, its lack of focus by splitting the attention between Apollo and Phoenix.
Investigations 1 I also barely remember anything at all, but that's just because the entire game is terribly written.
Sorry to rises from the dead but I wouldn't be surprised if the goal was to make a "AJ:AA" trilogy, where phoenix was the mentor and Apollo the main game, and that the reason the game felt so guide-railed is that it was Phoenix setting up the world for apollo for him to unhelpfully retire for the later games. @@DerpyHiro
I actually wish we got an actual whole AJ trilogy. It would have made DD and SoJ a lot more impactful if it was an actual follow up of Phoenix coming back(I would also be fine with him actually dropping off, but he is basically their marketing mascot. Even TGAA is about his ancestor rather than someone else) to the court proper after 10 years of disbarrment/effective retirement and would leave enough breathing room for Athena to properly stand out in the trio if Apollo already got enough material for himself to shine.
Instead of just going "nevermind" and pretending like AJ never existed, while also forcing some characters from the game to return due to fan demand.
Dual destinies was my first Ace attorney game, and I think it has the best self contained story of any ace attorney game besides maybe Trials and Tribulations. I really hate how this game fits in the overall Ace Attorney timeline though. Phoenix went from being a flawed confident character in Apollo Justice to feeling like a quirky main character. Like I can’t explain exactly what it is about him in this game, but he doesn’t feel like trilogy Phoenix either. Dual Destinies also almost never references characters from past games, and the characters that are get shoved to the side like Pearl and Klavier. Apollo Justice and Spirit of Justice had way more impactful callbacks like Ema Skye. I like Dual Destinies in a vacuum, but it just feels so detached from the rest of the series, and I feel it kind of shoots Apollo Justice in the foot because it doesn’t develop the major characters from that game at all.
I genuinely really like both games I think they're very well written I just think that OG trilogy fans are blindsided when they hate on anything that isn't just the trilogy
yea unfortunately trilogy purists do exist...
@@DerpyHiro I'm more of an investigation 2 purist, all though when you think about you can spot some wholes here and there.
@@spouwnerring Do you mean holes?
Yeah
Every single critcism People throw at DD and SOJ can be applied to the first 3 games
While comparing to trilogy
I find more plot holes in later games
Dont get me wrong AJ and DD games are great just comparing to quality of trilogy they are inferior
Well I think SOJ is vey well written game
4th my fav to be exact
But I agree about trilogy fans
Im trying to judge the game in terms on enjoyment
I opened for new AA games
SOJ for me has quality so I love this game
SOJ gave me hope for sequels
I like both games, honestly, though I can see they have some flaws.
I used to not like Hobo Phoenix as a teen, but when I got older I ended up really appreciating the way he's written, and wishing his personality was somewhat kept in DD. Originally, I thought the fourth game was too mean to Phoenix, who didn't deserve all the shit he went through, but now I see that life sometimes is like that. If you pay attention, his core is still intact in AJ: he cares about helping people, he's great at bluffing and he can be a little goofy here and there. He just got a lot smarter and jaded. Then, when he clears his name and gets his badge back in DD, it makes sense that he wouldn't look drunk and depressed all the time anymore. The only problem is that the change was a bit too fast.
I honestly like Apollo more as a protagonist, and even though he only got 1 full case in DD, he at least participated in all main cases. I like Athena too, personally, and I thought she made a great duo with Apollo. They play off each other very well. Even though Trucy was also great with Apollo, I can accept that she has more important things to do than help with the law stuff. Plus, the cases in DD are all good imo.
Where I think DD dropped the ball a bit is that they had Phoenix steal the spotlight from the new characters, again. This was a problem in the last case of AJ and is once again a detriment to DD. He didn't need to get the majority of the cases for himself. It could have been split more evenly. I know it's not simple to have 3 protagonists in the same game, but it could have been better. Of the 3, Phoenix was easily the one who needed the least amount of screentime, but the devs clearly wanted to appease the AJ haters. Sadly.
Finally, the prosecutors. Klavier is my favorite prosecutor in the series, and Simon is my second favorite. Do I wish Klavier had appeared more in DD? Certainly! But I like Simon too.
Overall, I had a great time with both games and always have fun replaying them. They're not perfect, but the things that are good are VERY good imo. Heck, I'm usually more inclined to replay AJ or DD than Trials and Tribulations, frankly, any day!
Yup they do have their issues but that doesn't mean they're not fun!
Personally, I love both trilogies. Heck, I started off with Dual Destinies. Many say that is not a good starting point for the series, but I enjoyed so much that I started wanting to play the entire franchise.
I also like Hobo Phoenix. After they changed him back, there was really nowhere for his character to go. It was complete in Trials and Tribulations. They tried something different in Apollo Justice but then never followed through and just reset him.
agreed
That's the reason Phoenix needs to be given a rest for at least a couple of games so that Athena and Apollo can have more character development. Phoenix already pretty much completed his, that and beyond. He's had enough screen time. It's not like I hate the character, but he's taking the spotlight away from the other two way too much, which when you love the other two as much as or even more than him, will cause some conflicts in your mind.
I love the classic Phoenix-Edgeworth duo, but they both ate their cake already. Give some to Athena-Apollo duo.
I did enjoy Dual Destinies a lot more than Apollo Justice, but I still find enjoyment in both. Apollo Justice has two good cases and two not so good ones (although I don't hate Corner). Dual Destines has two cases that were fantastic, Case 5 and the DLC Case. Case 3 and 4 were also good. Then cases 1 and 2 were serviceable. One thing that Dual Destinies disappointed me on was Trucy and Apollo because we got next to nothing from them in DD and SoJ. However, at least DD replaced Apollo with Athena, which is a great replacement and is part of the reason I enjoy DD. So in conclusion, I enjoy DD more.
Yea they really didn't want to bring up the Apollo Trucy half sibling stuff. It's crazy that it's been 16 years and they still don't know
Capcom being Capcom taking their franchises off the rails and Ace Attorney is no exception.
I don't understand why people see PW as the main character of DD, it clearly is Athena (and Blackquill). PW is only there to support the case, even if he's the main lawyer in the final case (I let alone the dlc), all the game is driven by Athena and Blackquill. Sure Apollo is somewhere put aside, but still I love the part of him being torn during the final case and his doubts.
To me it's not because a character is always shown on screen that this character has the whole support and others not. Definitely the whole crew of Wright's Anything Agency is important, they all move the story forward and confront their personalities (and also I love the duo part of the game allowing us to use everyone's power). The final case of DD is by far my favorite case of the whole serie (haven't done AA 6 yet) even before 1-5 dlc case.
About Apollo and Trucy, to me that's all on AJ, not on DD. They should've set a final dlc case in which both of them reunite with Thalassa, but it wasn't up to DD to solve AJ's unfinished business. And concerning PW's personality in AJ, I found that this is mostly because they give PW's original persona to Apollo and it was a bit strange to see two people act the same way. And I don't see how PW is different in AJ and DD, he's the same, just that his depression/delusion about the legal system vanished a bit because he now is the mentor of both Apollo and Athena. It's not contradiction to me, just logical evolution and maturity for Phoenix.
I like Apollo's character development in Dual Destinies. Compared with being manipulated and used by Phoenix in AJ, Apollo in Dual Destinies becomes an Anti-hero different from Phoenix. Take his suspicion of Athena in Chapter 5 as an example. I think Apollo's action teaches Phoenix and Blackquill a good lesson. Tell them that "Believing and protecting your friend's innocence" is not inconsistent with "Facing the fact and Finding the truth".
Phoenix is the character we play as the most in this game whereas Athena we play as the least
The plot is centred around Athena but that doesn't mean she's the main character
It’s a classic case of nostalgia blindness. Happens to every fandom. Nobody is immune to it. You can look at every detail you want, but whether a game is good or not really comes down to a face value aspect. “Are you enjoying your time playing it?”
I’m an AJ lover, it’s cases were not great but it had a cast I honestly love more than the trilogy cast so perfect sequel potential
My biggest problem with DD and SOJ is two thing, Apollo’s backstory and the “No spoilers” rule. The backstory story is more on SOJ than DD but it just so complicated. Khura'in is not the best setting in my opinion. You notice that DD and SoJ ( also the investigation games) avoid details of past games. Not to sound like og trilogy purists, but T&T recap all the second game events in a way that you know what happened without telling you what happened. While DD and SoJ (mostly SoJ) bring up past events without any context. Just look at the black psylock. Lastly, the Dark ago of law makes no sense when you look at all the games up to that point. Phoenix trail make sense but Simon, a rookie prosecutor kills his non-prosecutor mentor and confesses to the crime. Not DL-6, Not SL-9, not the cases that cased DL-6, not even that case were the prosecutor was called out on being a famous thief. Nope it one with a rookie kills non law related scientist. Also O care more about the characters in GAA games more than DD and SoJ. I do think that DD and SoJ good games on there own. I just don’t work for me as a follow up or next saga type.
While Phoenix linda reverted, you can see at times (like when he enters the courtroom dueling the fist case of Dual Destinies) that he CAN act more confident. It's just that he does this waaay less often
Great video! Aside from TGAA, Apollo is my favorite mainline game in the series. I personally loved the story and twists, and although the third case was a bit on the weaker side, I enjoyed the game immensely for what it brought to the table. That's why when it came to playing Dual Destinies after I was initially a bit disappointed. Phoenix's character regression and the sidelining of Apollo in favor of Athena was pretty rough at first, but I have to say that when Dual Destinies was doing it's own thing and not relying on older characters and plot points, I think the game was generally really fun.
If this was the way the series was going to go, then I hoped they'd just do their own thing since the director of Dual Destinies clearly wanted to go in his own direction instead of following up the plot elements Takumi was setting up. Unfortunately, I think Spirit of Justice did a lot of damage though. Them trying to wrap of Apollo's storyline felt really rushed, and never got he proper time it needed to develop since the game also had to compete with Phoenix in another country, Maya returning, and the fact that they had to shoehorn Athena into the game even though she added nothing to the plot. This was also not including the cases, which I generally found to be really weak too.
My hope for a potentially new Ace Attorney game is that they'll go in a different direction with newer characters next time, similar to how TGAA did, but maybe in the time period of the other games. I tend to be more accepting of change when compared to the rest of the Ace Attorney community, since I always stood up for Apollo Justice despite the criticisms it used to have, so I also hope fans will be more accepting of change in the future because that inevitably needs to happen for this series to survive in my opinion.
I ultimately do like both games overall, but I understand why some may not.
DD’s not a bad game by any means but it’s probably my second least favorite after Investigations. People talk about its problems often, but not enough about how it failed as an AJ follow-up
Yea... it's not the best if you think about it as a sequel
By adding more and more characters, it became clear that the original overused formula doesn't work that well with that many characters in it. Capcom needs to change something if it wants the next games to work. Great video as always.
AJ may have been my least fav mainline game, but I still liked to a good degree it’s just sorta how it didn’t keep me immersed especially with how case 1 was presented and was intrigued how things would go down… only for case 2 and 3 to happen…But hey, I love Apollo so that’s something. (Weird thing to mention for me here but my favorite moment of Case 4 was literally the flashback Case of Phoenix Wright and maybe saved Case 4 for me and not the ending because..kristoph..)
DD is a quite similar yet different story for me. Case 1 was presented real well and the rest of the cases after that kept me immersed to the plot and The Addition of Athena and Simon multiplied my enjoyment of DD tenfold. All the cases were at the very least enjoyable (case 3 and 4 being the climax)and the final case and the DLC made it even better for me. The story may have not been what people had wanted but I loved it to a certain extent. Despite this, DD is my 4th favorite mainline game because I love AA1 purely due to nostalgia (and the perfection that is 1-5), SOJ because of it’s cases (primarily 6-2 and 6-3) and it’s golden conclusion with 6-5, not to mention I would Argue that SOJ has the most content because of the DLC and the Asinine Attorney. And T&T because it’s T&T. (All these AA games are at the very least Awesome but it ain’t beating Shu Takumi’s Masterpiece Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective)
A lot of people have been telling me that Ghost Trick is better than the AA games. I really do have to play it someday
@@DerpyHiro OH YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO!! ITS MY FAVORITE GAME OF ALL TIME AND IT MAKES ME CRY EVERY TIME I FINISH IT. THE PORTS COME OUT ON JUNE 30TH SO LOOK FORWARD TO IT!!! (Or you could just emulate it or buy it physically. Just please play it….)
Honestly, I think Dual Destinies is a worst offender than Apollo Justice. At least there, AJ had a reason to be different bc bringing Phoenix back after T&T with nothing new would've been worse than giving him a new perspective. AJ still relies on Phoenix, but it's kind of a given since he's such a popular aspect of the franchise. DD and Spirit of Justice kind of proves this bc him reverting back to the status quo was so bad. If you aren't gonna justify him being here, then don't bring him back.
Also, the making Athena a playable character just enhanced the issue bc we really didn't need her this soon. From what I heard, the creator for Apollo Justice didn't really work on Dual Destinies bc they were working on the Professor Layton crossover. The person who did lead DD ended up regressing the AJ plots and cast which just leaves bad taste in my mouth. It feels like a vanity project instead of actually knowing what the series needs.
Yea the teams that worked on AJ and DD are not the same which makes the inconsistencies of the games understandable
I played dual destinies first, and I absolutely loved it. It's still my favorite game in the series, though I fully admit that im pretty blind to its critiscm, looking at it through rose colored glasses. And thats the thing- I actually played the games in a pretty wacky order: dual destinies, then apollo justice, halfway through spirit of justive, then the main trilogy, and im working my way through the great ace attorney now. And i actually love dual destinies and apollo justice! But honestly? I played them years apart, and i think thats for the best. In my mind, they're two very separate things, and capcom should have let them be that, and then started a proper trilogy with the new characters. As their own games, i absolutely love them. But as part of a trilogy.... i think it demerits both of them. And how they fall in the timeline really doesn't help.
Basically, they feel very separate, and thats okay for me. If they had both been fully allowed to be their own adventures, with their own protagonists, I think they would have been even better- and having a decent timeskip would help. Forgive me if i got anything wrong, I haven’t played either of them for a while. But really, i dont think they're bad games, i think they just suffer from being drawn into a trilogy together. Maybe in a better universe, apollo justice and dual destinies would have each been an introduction to trilogies of their own. But still, im very happy with them in the way i played them, and both games, their characters, cases, and artstyles are very dear to my heart.
There is so MUCH to discuss when it comes to this topic (like there being bairly any gameplay in the final boss fight in AJAA or Trucy being treated like garbage bag where unneeded is thrown into when it comes to DD), however I would just like to state my current opinions on the games. AJAA is my least favorite game, however I don't openly hate and I actually agree with a lot of the points that AJAA defenders make. I just don't like it that Phoenix was forced into the game, thus potentialy ruining a really cool conflict between Apollo and The Rivales Family (as it stance now they're just glorified extras). I mean, in real life gangster in Ecuador anonymusly mailed bombs to journalists disguised as USB-sticks so imagin how insane the cases in AJAA could have been if we were fighting gangsters?
However, just because I don't like AJAA doesn't mean that I'm a fan of DD. A sequel is supposed to expand on the previous instalment, not activley try to cover it up. It just reverds back to the orginal justice system without any explaination given (Tournabout Academy would have been a perfect place to explain it). Not just that but also also creates it's own loose ends, which don't even get adresed in SOJ. Not to mention that the final boss only becomes an active threat when the player reached the final 2 cases (I really wish they had some sort of involvement in case 2 and 3 in order to better forshadow their existence).
I hope that AA7 adresses these loose plot points that didn't get any resolution and ties them up nicely.
Yea the transition between AJ and DD definitely had it's issues. Good point about making the final boss in DD involved in earlier cases. They needed more foreshadowing for sure. Using the Rivales Family is a pretty cool idea as well
@@DerpyHiro I'm pretty sure that SOJ's final boss is even more passive. It's like their not even the main antagonist ontill the final murder is commited
Still waiting for Apollo justice 2
I absolutely adore Apollo Justice. The cases are great and I actually enjoy the in between Phoenix character. He has always been quirky so I wasn’t surprised. Klaus and Kristoph were great. Trucy is one of my favorite characters ever! I just could never get into Dual Destinies and Spirit Justice as much.
Pretty good video, I might have to watch more and comment. As for my own thoughts, since calm and rational AA discussion is a rarity that I love...
I will agree that the fanbase is still pretty divided, now I don't hate a single game in this IP, they're all good, however both AJ and DD would be in the bottom half for me for entirely opposite reasons.
I view AJ's main issue was that it couldn't figure out if it wanted to throw out the old and bring in the new, or if it still wanted to tell the story of Phoenix Wright, but without all of his previous supporting characters. I feel like it's due to this that you end up with likeable new character's, but they lack the screen time or depth that their AA1 counterparts have, so you have this weird paradox where I would love to have another game with more focus on these characters, BUT I would HATE for it to be in the exact same style as AJ was in, does that make sense?
Meanwhile DD's main issue is that it's a case of "Classic Capcom (over)Correction" or CCC as I like to call it, but it still kinda commits the same style of flaws of AJ, but in a different manner, in AJ you introduced new characters but had the game focus around the old ones, in DD you have the old characters back, but the focus is now on the new characters. Cases in AJ were not up to par due to them not being very fun to play due to either interface challenges or drawn out gimmicks. cases in DD were not up to par due to lacking in any sort of challenge and feeling much shorter then they actually were, so you have two very flawed games that leaned too hard in one direction or the other, while I will always favor DD more since I really love Blackquill, neither of these are bad games but we just kinda have a situation where people tend to gloss over these flaws because they either preferred "changing things up" or a "return to form" more.
the short version of my opinion of both is that AJ is different but not different enough to have been needing to exist, but it did introduce great concepts and character IDEAS that should've been in the spotlight more, while DD has a more focused narrative on its new characters so they get to shine more, but at the cost of being able to play the game on autopilot, hope you read this essay and I might type a few more of these on your other videos.
autism
I talked very negatively about AJ and DD
So for a change a pace I will talk about things I enjoy/love in AJ and DD
Firstly AJ
I like what they did with Phoenix
He is smart collective, and calculated person and is behaving differently than Mia
I like Apollo- he is funny typical energetic guy(he grew up for me)
Klavier-ignoring development he is a great guy- finally a guy who is for the truth
Kristoph-yes I said he is the worst final villain but I love how petty and intimidating he is(and that we did not break his black psyche locks)
I like the perceive mechanic
I like trucy very much
DD
I like Athena
Blackquill is the best character in DD
Athena backstory is very good
And traumatizing
Tenma Taro is a good defendant
Jinxie is funny simetimes
Starbuck is the best defendant in DD
I kinda hard to find other good part for me honestly
Aura blackquill is fine
Edgeworth coming back was nice but just nice
Ooo right
Mood matrix
Is a good mechanic but the game does not penalize you so you can use the trial and error method which is dumb
i love apollo justice, its my favorite game and character in ace attorney, but it felt wayyy to fast. i feel like it could have been so much better if they at least took some time to flesh out characters and their relationships with each other. for example, (spoilers for turnabout serenade & turnabout trump) when daryan was convicted, klavier didn't seem to mind whatsoever?? one of his best friends/colleagues/bandmates was a murderer and he didn't seem hurt at all. same with kristoph for both apollo and klavier.
(also i hate how they just cut off the jurist system and hobo phoenix in the next games, it feels like it was just a waste of time to be honest, they could have done so much more with that, and phoenix just returns to an older and slightly more confident trilogy version of himself, i think that was done very badly)
that's probably my biggest issues with it personally. i wish capcom would do a remake, maybe with some backstory foreshadowing but still following plot, but capcom literally hates its ace attorney fans lol
I'm definitely more in the AJ camp (although i quite like some of the elements in DD) as AJ is my favorite game, and DD did disapoint me in areas. Least annoyingly long AJ defense post, that doesn't even come close to cover all things relevant to it:
Now assume you're Takumi: You're done with T&T, and you consider making another Ace Attorney game, but you want it to be significantly detached from the previous entries. However, upper management realize that Phoneix Wright is significantly recognizable, and so requires you to include him. Obviously a challenge, as Phoenix' arc between AA1 and AA3 of going from newbie to being recognized as a successful lawyer by his mentor is done already. (That said, upper mangement does always have significant restrictions as is, no matter the game) So... It's not strange at all to see then, why Takumi made Phoneix the way he is in AJ: Arguably the most interesting thing to do for Phoenix here, after having him experience significant wins, would be to have him experience a downfall.
Now some may then say that the continuation of the series was then unnecessary, as a significant amount of things was resolved in T&T. However... and I guess this is the most controversial part of my comment... are they all resolved satisfyingly? I personally don't think so, as there are things with the overarching story of the trilogy and T&T especially that bothered me. To cut out the stuff that isn't relevant to the specific point I wanna to make here: There is a lack of recognition of the conflicts related to the Fey Clan as a systemic issue (meaning those issues inevitably would have happened given the nature of its structure and the behavior it encouraged) and focuses instead on interpersonal conflicts and portrays them in such a dramatic and reductive way, that I felt significantly manipulated by how the story presented itself. (This is fairly complicated to express but there's a great text by metalcicada that covers this and other issues in detail, while being quite the funny haha, here ya go: docs.google.com/document/d/10ABlT9kWLLYUbZPSRW5CPafl4_m0uZ9Axn2r1kFJLxU/edit Sidenote, I'm curious as to whether or not you've read this controversial analysis, DerpyHiro) Meanwhile, AJ responds to this, not only by having the prosecution's case logic only be possible through the biased justice system, but by using a structural solution to secure Kristoph's demise. Now, could these elements have been better executed? Yes, of course. In fact, if there's an issue I have with 4-4, it'd be how that theme is executed by Phoenix, and its significant lack of practical explanation. But it was especially refreshing to have far more of a recognition of systemic issues and solutions, after seeing how many conflicts were presented and resolved in the finale of T&T).
Speaking of things being refreshing, AJ really does stand out among the rest of the series library of games. Trucy subverts the helpless assistant in distress trope during what is one of my favorite scenes in the series, where it's revealed that she kidnapped herself. Klavier, as you mentioned, is not nearly as antagonistic towards you, which is a breath of fresh air, as he came around when I started to wonder if every prosecutor was determined to be Edgeworth-esque. Kristoph, your mentor, being the culprit of the first case, as well as the main antagonist of the game of course. Ema works as a contrast, not only to her previous enthusiastic self, but to the enthusiastic Gumshoe, as she's transformed into quite the cynic not long after her career has begun. I could go on and on with minor characters as well, but you see my point. Each main cast members ability to subvert expectations, and therefore contribute with a fairly new experience, is largely why I absolutely love the main cast of the game. That said, I think there's more to them that I enjoy of course, espcially Kristoph, but I'd be here for a long time.
The game also has mechanics and decisions in presentation that go unused in later entries. I really like the DS sprites but I think I especially like the updated HD sprites, as the outlines aren't as dark as the HD Trilogy ones. The HD Trilogy ones I think detach the character too much from its background. The music, while not always amazing, usually is, and has a very distinct sound and style to it. I also quite like the 3D presentations of the scene of the crime in 4-1 and 4-2. I also enjoy the new gameplay mechanics in 4-3 and 4-4.
I take issue with some things, especially towards the end of this game. I do agree that Phoenix' friends should've probably been more present and supporting during this timespan, even if later games try to explain their absence. Despite my overall enjoyment with the case, there are aspects to Turnabout Serenade that makes me unintentionally laugh at it. But Turnabout Trump and Turnabout Corner are for me sincerely the strongest start to any Ace Attorney game, and kept me invested throughout the game, even through its weaker parts. I'm pretty sure I've expressed my thoughts fairly enough on this game, I know I've previously talked about character assassinations in a previous video of Hiro's videos for example. But idk, I might be back now and then and express my appreciation for the game, as well as criticize the elements which I think were not very well executed lol.
(Btw, to anyone reading this, feel utterly free to reply and respond to any point but there's no need to insist that I'm "wrong" if the point of discussion is thoroughly up to interpretation)
Also, as you mentioned it, I'll ad: I think it's no secret that defense attorneys aren't as well treated as prosecutors are, and so while the latter can get away with terrible actions here and there, defense attorneys whole moral character and ability to work in the courtroom is questioned once they do little in comparison. This would also explain his intensely cynical demeanor, to have been thrown out of the system while being witness to the acceptable misbehavior of others.
Also consider letting me know if there are any typos that make this text difficult to read.
I will respond to this after I go outside just because it's a lot to read but I opened the doc and it's funny because I was planning on making a video about why Dahlia is the best Ace Attorney villain LOL
Ok I read it. AJ's main cast definitely does subvert expectations in a lot of ways. And yea it's easy to see how Phoenix is more cynical due to the harsh treatment of defense attorneys.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this part, "There is a lack of recognition of the conflicts related to the Fey Clan as a systemic issue (meaning those issues inevitably would have happened given the nature of its structure and the behavior it encouraged)" but I think that might be cleared up if I read your doc about Dahlia. I may read into it during the process of making my Dahlia video
@@DerpyHiro To be clear, the doc isn't mine, it's by metalcicada (on various social medias they go by that). Honestly think it might be my favorite analysis of anything Ace Attorney-related, mostly because I initially knew that I took issue with T&T's overarching story but didn't know how to put some of it into words.
Idk if I should play the great ace attorney chronicles or wait for Apollo justice trilogy to come out
whichever one you have more of an urge to play
It's not true that "we" "hate" Apollo Justice and DD because we don't like changes.
I'm talking about real fans and not about Internet opinions (people love to jump on the popular hate bandwagon see JFA).
AAI2 and the Great Ace Attorney are very appreciated and they are much more inovative than AJ so it's not about changes.
AJ and DD are at the bottom list because of their flaws.They are not bad games,it's just that nobody asked for them.
I mean let's be honest AJ is just a clone of PW and Trucy is a Maya's ersatz.And don't get me started on Athena and her horrible Mood Matrix.
AJ second case is just a slight variation of Reunion and Turnabout,the DLC case in DD is a rip off of Turnabout Big Top.
The last case of AJ is an unfinished mess (I believe Takumi wrote a follow-up for a sequel but don't quote me on this).
I could write a book about the AJ and DD problems( again not bad games but it was quite a deception playing them).
The irony is that in 2024 Capcom asked fans who is their favorite character from the Apollo Justice trilogy was and here is the ranking :
1 - Miles Edgeworth (obviously x) )
2 - Phoenix (apollo justice ace attorney version)
3 - Apollo Justice
Now I don't know if it was DD and SOJ that got Apollo so high in the rankings....but I think that Capcom should have continued the game with what Shu Takumi would have wanted to convey for the sequel of AJ
am I weird for just playing the games and not noticing anything wrong with them?
Not at all, it's probably better that way
I like Apollo Justice, but nothing lived up to 4-1. Case 2 was decent, case 3 was not. Case 4 was good but also kind of weird. What the heck is this mason system? Where did it come from? Why? Why does Apollo have pretty much nothing to do with his own game? It’s not terrible it’s just a weird and confusing direction. Dual destinies is pretty good. None of the cases are that amazing, but they’re all pretty good. Though the final case is the best.
I do feel case 4 of AJ is under explained. Things like the Mason System could've used more detailed explanation
Saying the case people have a problem with is succession is wild… I mean yah there are some valid criticisms of the mason system but it’s serenade everyone hates for being garbage while corner is kinda mid
Of course serenade is the most hated case in the game but at the time a poorly received 3rd case was common.
The reason why Succession is important and contributes heavily to how people view Apollo Justice is because it answers all the questions we have about Phoenix and the overall story. If the answers are not satisfying, it will impact people's perception of the game to a heavy degree.
Think about the prior games. Turnabout Goodbyes, Farewell my Turnabout and Bridge to the Turnabout are all very well received and give a satisfying conclusion. Turnabout Succession on the other hand, has very mixed reception that left a bad taste in some people's mouth.
@@DerpyHiro ah yah fair enough. I think it’s a good case but not without it’s flaws
I’m currently playing through DD just got to 5-4 when writing this so my opinion might change.
I’m a pretty big fan of Apollo Justice and really enjoyed the game only had a few complaints being a lack of more triumph for Apollo because it didn’t feel satisfying to take down the final antagonist, Klavier not having more twisted feelings for having to take down his friend/band mate and his brother and I felt like 4-4 was abit messy but did wise there was a 5 case somewhere. I did really like the more mysterious Hobo Phoenix because we didn’t have access to his inter dialogue anymore. I really loved the use of the perceive mechanics trying to find people’s nervous tells it just fits so perfectly in games like Ace Attorney. I did love a lot of the characters in the game
I’m enjoying Duel Destinys gameplay wise but not sure where the story is trying to go other than the dark history of the law topic mentioned in AJ. I like Athena and find a lot of her poses funny and character funny as a contrast to Apollo who is more reserved during the investigation portions, she is alot more emotional which plays into her mechanic. I like the emotion mechanic in the trials but not a fan of how it completely replaces perceive in the courtroom because a bird hates your bracelet. I do like finally being able to use it outside of the courtroom but the magatama is alot more challenging method than perceiving a tell so would prefer that. I am disappointed in the lack of Trucy because I really liked the dynamic her and Apollo have and wish she would join us on the adventure. Also not sure how I feel about Phoenix being in the game because there’s been a real lack of him so far outside of appearing in 4-1 and having a role outside of the courtroom in 4-3 it’s cool to see him as an attorney again but haven’t finished the game so not sure where it’s going yet. There’s just a few other nitpicks I have and that’s really the timeline of events with me being confused on when we are going into the present because 5-1 is set before 5-2/3/4 and just wondering when we are going to be in the present.
When thinking about it I feel like adding Athena hurts other characters past characters because there is a lot of Athena focus it takes focus away from Trucy and Apollo because I was really ready for Apollo to be the new main character after AJ with Phoenix as a mentor but now we have 2 characters in the driver seat with a clear bigger focus on Athena than Apollo.
Again still a fan of both of these games with me reaching the end of DD soon so maybe my opinion will change in the future and maybe it will change again when I get to Spirit of Justice
Edit: I just realized when playing 5-4 that only the beginning of the case takes place before 5-1 so the rest of the case takes place after 5-1
Apollo Justice is our group's least favorite game by a wide margin (though, we don't hate it... it's just the least good)
Speaking on behalf of the group, we're in a pretty unique camp since all of us only really got into the series around the last two years. We loved the formula changes such as the shifting formula, new kind of prosecutor, and of course Hobo Phoenix. Heck, we love the music and thought all the cases were definitely in our top half (except Serenade, which is at the very very bottom)
That being said, Apollo Justice suffers from having all of its minor characters be totally unmemorable, especially compared to what the other games have to offer. Other than Guy Eldoon and maaaaaybe Wocky, none of them ever feel like they have a voice and it feels like they're blank canvases half the time. Brushel & Stickler are intentionally oddballs, Plum & Winfred barely get any screentime, Orly is funny but is pushed aside almost immediately, Machi and Lamiroir are fine but they just feel really generic despite the potential of having foreign perspectives, and Alita & Daryan just don't stand out from the rest of villains. Oh, and I guess Zak and Valant are just jerks.
The major characters are all great, but the world around them feels so lifeless and dull that we can't help but be bored. Dual Destinies on the other hand often goes into an almost cartoonish level of characterization sometimes... but to its credit, it at least it makes the world feel more alive and lived in. Dual Desinies is probably in our Top 5 favorites (unsure where since we just finished playing them so recency bias is still fresh in our minds) but damn the game was fun!
Agreed with the points about characterization. Some characters like Alita, Daryan and Machi don't make me feel any type of way which is a shame. Also agreed with loving the new formula changes that Apollo Justice makes. I hope you guys have fun playing the rest of the series!
Man, hearing you talk about Apollo Justice was such a trip back for me. I'm on both sides. I really didn't like what happened with Phoenix Wright, and trust me, I REALLY mean that, but I STILL love Apollo Justice. His character, the music, and Klavier were just classic Ace Attorney fun, and Phoenix still somehow turns out alright in the end. I've never hated and loved a game so much, never able to form a real opinion to this day, which is bizzare.
I have yet to actually play any of the games, but I'm not ashamed to say I'm one of the few who actually liked Athena. I want to hug her.
going to say honestly im at this point in life where i went through all of the original ace attorney games till apollo justice and i think that the main problem after apollo justice was that the original creator of the series Shu Takumi left the capcom so the writing of the new team started to go down and that probably one of the reasons why they wrote phoenix more like in the original trilogy
Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice is like Dragon Ball Super. They were influenced by sales and fan service. Which is to say they are still good but not how the original vision is. Great Ace Attorney is the true follow up to Apollo Justice if you wonder what it could have been if they completed the trilogy.
yeah, DD is my favorite game of the main line (but edgeworth's duology and tgaa chronicles are much better imo)
i really like nearly everything in the game, including that hobo phoenix was gone lol
i'm not a fan *at all* of what they did with phoenix's character in AJ, it felt like i didn't know nick anymore, it was a totally different character. this together with turnabout sucession existing are my biggest reasons to not like AJ (the game, i love apollo)
but i don't hate AJ, there are some points i *really* like in the game, klavier for example. to me it was really cool to have a nice prosecutor instead of the mean ones we had all the time!! trucy also is a character i really like.
but honestly, while playing AJ, there was only one case that i *really* felt like i was having fun: turnabout serenade. maybe i am the only person ever who really like this case but maybe it can be because i love klavier so much? idk.
but apollo justice as a character was developed better in DD and SOJ, mainly SOJ. i only started to love apollo after playing those two games. it really is a shame that AJ has apollo's name in the title but it doesn't feel like it's *his* game. also doesn't feel as a phoenix's game. but instead it feels like another third thing that i don't know how to describe.
haha funny that the only case you had fun with is Turnabout Serenade when it's the complete opposite for many people
@@DerpyHiro IKR i'm the only person i know who likes turnabout serenade unironically 😭
maybe because i normally tend to like the third cases in aa (turnabout big top being the one and only exception)
6 months late, but I'm a fan of the trilogy and DD, but I also really like Apollo as a character too, so it really feels like I walk away with a W regardless
This is longer than I thought read at your own discretion 😭:
Honestly I think people are to hard on Apollo he's supposed to be a rookie like Phoenix. I think most of the hate he gets comes with Capcom misuse of the characters. I do understand people when they say Apollo doesn't feel like the main character in his game but I disagree personally cause most of the events that happen in the game happen because of Apollo. Phoenix said it himself him outwitting Kristoph would've been impossible if he didn't have a lawyer that wouldn't tolerate injustice on his side aka Apollo. So what if he needed help a couple times from people so did Phoenix but nobody criticizes him for that. Apollo still solved all those cases using the knowledge he gained Phoenix and was an integral part of getting Kristoph arrested. Especially in the final case. PS I love his young and aggressive personality compared to Phoenix goofy and calm one I personally don't see it when people call him a Phoenix Jr also he has the best pursuit theme fight me. They set him up to be a great character that's why I'm upset in DD he gets only one case and spends the entire time moping until the end about his best friend who we never heard of and who they expect us to care about. The whole him doubting Athena thing I did like cause it put their friendship to the test but it could've been executed better.
The only problem I have with hobo Phoenix is how he got disbarred like I get Phoenix should've been smarter in accepting evidence from a kid but he's always been a trusting person so I don't hold it against him to hard but he got disbarred for presenting forged evidence.....are you fucking kidding me. Edgeworth,Franziska,Manfred presented forged evidence for years and all they got was a penalty but God forbid a Defense Attorney does it. Besides that I love hobo Phoenix personally like a lot of people say his character was complete in Trials and Tribulations it's upsetting what happened to him yes but he's still the badass he always was. He's basically Apollo Mia (with a hint of Godot in there) plus he's attractive af❤️. His change of personality may be jarring but I think that's more of the fault of telling not showing. I mean considering his entire career was ripped away from him I'm not suprised he acts the way he does but he still had the heart of a lawyer. I don't even blame him for using forged evidence in the first case he's not a lawyer anymore so he couldn't get in trouble for it plus you gotta fight fire with fire sometimes Kristoph used forged evidence so why can't Phoenix. Kristoph used it for the wrong reasons, Phoenix used it for the right reasons so there's no Phoenix is no better than Kristoph argument to be made
DD has some amazing cases but legit the only problem I have was the characters of the Wright Anything Agency. Phoenix got his personality reset to trilogy phoenix and just completely scrapped Apollo Justice Phoenix, Apollo got hit with HORRIBLE writing, and Athena I love her but she only has 1 case and doesn't really feel like the center of it. The game tries to split itself between the 3 main characters so they don't get that much screentime to shine.
I feel like it would've been more impact full if Phoenix just remained a mentor and let Apollo and Athena have their times. Another thing is they scrap previous characters to much they did it in DD and AJ. I saw another comment saying this but if they were gonna split the game between them they should've did better characterization like edgeworth for phoenix, klavier for apollo,and blackquill for athena their rivals bring out the best in them.
Ok sorry for the essay and for the word jumble but I love sharing my opinions on videos like this I hope at least some of what I said made sense
Yeah, they really did Phoenix and Apollo dirty in DD, but I think Athena and Blackquill and their arc more than made up for it.
Yup the Athena and Blackquill story was pretty good
I don't think DD made Apollo dirty. On the contrary, compared with being manipulated and used by Phoenix in AJ, Apollo in Dual Destinies becomes an anti-hero different from Phoenix. Take his suspicion of Athena in Chapter 5 as an example. I think Apollo's action teaches Phoenix and Blackquill a good lesson. Tell them that "Believing and protecting your friend's innocence" is not inconsistent with "Finding the truth".
I'm not the biggest fan of Apollo Justice, but I still think it's good. On the other hand, I found Dual Destinies boring and didn't care for Athena at all (despite being a fan of every single other "assistant" in the franchise), and I was so mad they decided to erase everything from AJ. Klavier not being very present is ok, and I get why we needed a new detective, but Trucy ? Why can't she be part of the story ? And I know some people dislike hobo Phoenix but they just changed him back to please them, completely ignoring both the people who liked him and the fact that it makes no sense at all. I just think they should have accepted their choice of changing him and worked from there instead of ignoring it.
So yeah, DD was definitely not one of my favourites
Simon was great tho
Yea they definitely had a tough time planning DD. A new team took over the main series when it was time to make DD so the lack of direction makes sense
What the hell Capcom?!
Apollo Justice was a jolt to a lot of fans thanks to introducing a new protagonist, meanwhile Ace Attorney 5 got flack for all bit disregarding a lot of the set up and story from Apollo Justice. Personally, I do love both games, but in different ways, they both fall short of the original trilogy.
Apollo was my first Ace Attorney experience, so I didn't go in with any sort of attachment to the old cast, or any pre-conceived expectations. I liied the game, but still came away feeling like Apollo wasn't really a character as much as he was a player insert. I expected the original trilogy to be the same way, so I was kind of surprised how emotionally invested Phoenix was in his games.
That said, I still think Apollo is, in some ways, the best written game in the series, at least to that point. Its characters were more layered and its themes were more complex. It just drops the ball at the end because Apollo is so irrelevant to the story. It isn't my favorite game in the series, but I think there's a lot to appreciate.
Then Dual Destinies came out and it was a complete disaster IMO. Its 3 main characters all jockying for attention lent the whole story an unfocused feel. And the narrative, while having some decent setup, lacked subtlety and suffered from awkward scripting.
Both games suck:
AJ gives Apollo no character development and hardly any connection to the story, outside of the half-sibling plot twist, which is barely even brought up again. Phoenix suffers from character assassination and becomes a literal criminal, forging evidence despite being disbarred… for presenting forged evidence. The game also tries way too hard to be dark, to the point where it becomes edgy, meaning it becomes almost impossible to relate to the characters.
DD tries to fix some of AJ’s issues, but the good parts of DD are completely overshadowed by its numerous flaws. The story contains no subtlety whatsoever and only tells; it never shows. Athena is a terrible character with no originality outside of gimmicks and nonexistent character growth. The ending is incredibly poorly written and convenient, as Capcom chickened out of making Athena guilty and created a new culprit out of thin air.
In short, they both suck. The main series ended with T&T, and you can’t convince me otherwise.
Oh my god I despise Dual Destinies.
Athena, Blackquill and Bobby are nice, but not good enough for me to finish when every single side character falls flat, and I especially question their decision to include THREE PLAYABLE MAIN CHARACTERS when Apollo was already overshadowed in his debut. Cases and culprits are boring, characters are either too bland or too over the top, there are only two AA games I didn't finish due to burnout, that being I1 and DD, and that really says something. The dark age of the law plotline is just... eugh. The Dark Age™ is supposed to be started by the loss of faith in the law, and to solve it, some random detective got declared guilty as a legendary spy when nearly everyone else involved in the trial had some connections with Phoenix, who actually had a history of forgery... yeah not sure how that restored the faith in the law.
What I hate the most, though, is how it ruined AJ's reputation with it. I argue that AJ brought forth plenty of interesting side plots that would have been wonderful if they are actually expanded upon (cue 6-2). Like TGAA1, it's not really supposed to be a standalone, and while there are problems, it did serve its role as a new introduction pretty well. All DD needed to do is to EXPAND, and yet they chose to DISCARD EVERYTHING. That's what caused the feeling of a lack of completion in AJ: they're not supposed to be resolved there, but in upcoming games instead. But DD never resolved anything. Not in a satisfactory way. And so AJ is left in this extremely awkward state where everyone hates it for what's not even its own fault. Okay, sorry for the rant. Have a nice day.
Are you planning on doing Spirit of Justice? From what I heard, it's at least as divisive as Dual Destinies.
Yes, I am planning on doing a video about Spirit of Justice similar to this one
@@DerpyHiro Thanks, that's good to hear.
I like hobo Phoenix however the reasoning was crappy
I honestly dislike the original apollo justice game, just because the cases are kinda bland and the characters are not really that interesting.
But i absolutely LOVE DD and SOJ because of how we get to know Apollo more about his backstory and how he became a lawyer he is now. The cases were amazing. And the characters were really well written, the dramaticness and cutscenes were absolutely the cherry on top. Overrall the rest of the games after AA apollo justice is really fantastic.
I love Ace attorney regardless ^^
Apollo Justice I personally kinda like but its not my fave,but I do really love DD and think its underrated ;d
Nice! The best case scenario is truly when you're a fan of the series as a whole
I personally love AA1, AA3, DD, and TGAAC. I’m currently playing SoJ and enjoy it so far. But AJ and JFA just feel way too hit or miss for my tastes. I like the AJ characters, I would like to see more of them, but the execution just felt sloppy to me
Tbh it doesn't help that Apollo gets the worst cases in the game. In AJ 2nd was good all and all but the 3rd omg that was so frustrating and the 4th one is more of a Phoenix case than Apollo's.
And in DD we only get the 2nd one which somehow even with that setting it feels like a snorefest and doesn't help that the bad guy is spiilered in the opening scene.
SoJ is pretty good and we finally get a moment of triumph for Apollo but...Now we have Athena with the same problem as Apollo, hopefully they won't take 3 games to fully explore her.
I didn't even know this was a thing lol I just enjoyed the games regardless of expectations.
I didn't like AJ or DD. The major changes never bothered me, because if I wanted the games to be like the original trilogy, I would just PLAY THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY!
My main problem with these two games is that the cases just SUCK MASSIVE HORSE PP! In AJ, the game peaks early. Like... WAY too early! Turnabout Trump GOES HARD! Unlike other AA Tutorials, this case KNOWS FULL WELL that you're a veteran Ace Attorney player! It wastes ZERO TIME with information you already know, opting instead to give tutorials the middle finger by MAKING YOUR MENTOR THE BAD GUY!
After the first case, AJ only gets worse from here. It's bad enough already that case 1 sets your expectations WAY too high. To make matters worse, AJ does ANOTHER subversion with the Ace Attorney Franchise... where instead of being forced to play ONE filler case per game, you have to play... TWO filler cases... hoorayyyyyyyyyyy... DOESN'T THIS SOUND LIKE SO MUCH FUN?! As if that STILL wasn't bad enough, Turnabout Serenade also manages to be the WORST case in ALL of Ace Attorney! (This includes Turnabout Big Top) After wasting your time with Turnabout SUCKY-LAME, the final case isn't that much better. Not only is the jurist system lead by a biased jury (let alone someone who allegedly forged evidence), the time machine lets you present FUTURE evidence... into the PAST... that's not confusing at all... Turnabout Succession might as well not be canon, and the ending is anticlimactic af. If you wanna play Apollo Justice, play the first case and NOTHING ELSE!
Dual Destinies on the other hand... yeah there's nothing going for it. Athena is a cool character, but she's clearly made for marketing purposes and nothing else. Why go through the effort to make a new protagonist if she's gonna get shafted in BOTH GAMES! Also, as someone who hated Apollo Justice, I would've LOVED for DD to be a continuation of AJ, because it would explain all the plotholes and made AJ NOT COMPLETELY POINTLESS! Just give Athena her own game, dammit!
As for the cases, none of them are very good. DD was confirmed to be written by novice writers, and it SHOWS! The first case goes back to being "generic tutorial", because if you can't top Turnabout Trump, why bother trying? Like AJ, two of the cases are also COMPLETE FILLER! Aristotle Means could've been an interesting villain who challenges Hobo Phoenix's motives, as well as whether he's deserving to be a lawyer again. But NOOOOOOOOOOO, the ends don't justify the means, unless you're PHOENIX THE GOOD GUY! Don't you just LOVE HYPOCRISY?! Cases 4 and 5 could've just been one case, but still, it's trying to substitute good writing with FANSERVICE and REFERENCES... even though this game is supposed to be DESIGNED FOR NEW PLAYERS! Not only does the final case rip off the DL-6 Incident, but the Phantom is not a very good villain. His identity is never revealed, even though this game is a MYSTERY where you're SUPPOSED TO HAVE ANSWERS! (The infamous "No Spoilers" rule does NOT do Dual Destinies ANY favors!)
People say that AJ and DD games are hated because they're different. I love it when games try to be different, but AJ and DD aren't even good games IN A VACCUM. They stand ZERO CHANCE on their own. In order to be a good Ace Attorney Game, it NEEDS to have GOOD CASES. It's as simple as that.
Spirit of Justice is by far the best game in the Apollo Ace Attorney "Trilogy" (if you can even call it that...). Not only does it DARE to be DIFFERENT, but the cases are also DAMN GOOD! While the Foreign Turnabout doesn't TRUMP Turnabout Trump, it's good at being a tutorial, and a standalone story. The Magical Turnabout actually makes Apollo and Trucy good characters, and it feels more like an Apollo Justice case than... well... Apollo Justice... so good job, guys! (If The Magical Turnabout replaced Turnabout Corner, it would DRASTICALLY improve AJ.) Rite of Turnabout is subversive AF (even with the Maya is the Defendant Cliche), and even the FILLER case is good on its own. Turnabout Revolution is a final case that can actually hold a candle to the TRILOGY final case!
Moral of the Story: Good Cases = Good Game. WHO WOULD'VE THOUGHT?!
My issue is actually with the writing. DD's writing tanked compared to the trilogy an AJAA. It's far more childish and over the top, and not in fun ways. AJAA's writing is about on par with the trilogy, albeit with a more cynical edge, but DD feels like a parody of an Ace Attorney game. Despite this, I ended up liking Athena a lot and Apollo is easily the best returning character in DD by far. Phoenix's writing in particular plummets the farthest in DD but it's pretty pretty bad in SoJ. Everyone says he goes back to his trilogy self but he's a very flanderized version of it that loses all the charm and snark of the original.
Precisely. In the original trilogy, even characters like Oldbag and Larry have their special charm despite being somewhat over-the-top. DD's cast of side characters are either downright boring or way too stereotypical and overdone. They have no personality traits aside from their "quirks". And don't even get me started about the culprits...
AJ's problem isn't hobo Phoenix, it's Apollo himself. He's such a nothing protagonist with no goals or motivations of his own. I think Apollo is also the worst part of DD, and I blame that mostly on AJ giving him nothing to work with.
SoJ was the first game to make Apollo compelling for me, but of course part of what makes him compelling is tied up in the series worst prosecutor.
I consider myself a fan of Apollo, I like him more than Phoenix (I don't hate him, I just prefer Apollo). I like both Athena and Blackquil and I think their story has interesting things, but...
Why do you put these two in the fifth game instead of finishing Apollo's story? What's more, if we remove Athena from SoJ, the game remains practically the same. Why put a character with whom you are not going to do anything in the next game? I think that if we changed the order of DD and SoJ and used the DLC, to explain what happened between AJ and SoJ, the triology would improve significantly.
Well, i have to put my opinions tougether yet
I can only say that both games have good and bad ideas and is kinda personal see what hit amd what miss
PD: i just finish a 4 hours video about how bad is dual destinies XD
Turnabout Succession was such a bad way to end an otherwise great game that i can't really blame them for not knowing how to follow up on it, it's such a mess of a final case
it is hard to figure out how to proceed from that case
Granted these games do have their flaws but I will agree that DD is probably the weakest. At least SOJ tries to improve on it but it did a flanderization of the charcters that were brought back like Maya for example.
In my opinion i love all the ace attorney games but its stops after apollo justice, since i just feel the 3d style and the cutscenes are just wrong
You might like The Great Ace Attorney. The 3D Models actually WORK in that game!
Honestly, I don't care about any of the flaws surrounding Dual Destinies. It's still my favorite game in the franchise primarily for giving us Simon Blackquill.
fair enough
As a person who hate AJ and DD simultaneously this hits hard for me
This is my opinion about those two games
I dont like AJ cause of how they handled phoenix disbarrment
I dont like Kristoph(he is the weakest villain)
Also Klavier is the worst WRITTEN prosecutor which does not help
Cases(except trump) are bad
In Corner everything is forgettable(except Phoenix getting hit by a car) the panties jokes overstayed their welcome
Serenade(the worst case in AA franchise) I dont want to talk about it I just dont
Succession is very underwhelming
Mason system took so much time to the point that wanted to finish this game as soon as possible cause I was bored
When it comes to DD well
Phoenix being back for me is a bad move
He should have been like Mia
Im not against Athena being here
Its just she is so Underutilized
SHE HAS ONE FRICKIN CASE
Sure the story does serve(unlike Apollo)
But I would rather have a character like Apollo in AJ than Athena in DD
The worst part is that in DD Athena being in the background is VERY NOTICEABLE
Unlike Apollo with the story(you only notice it at the end, with Athena from the 2nd case)
Why Didnt Athena take the stand in DLC and the 5th case as a LEADER?!!
Also clay terran(I could care less about him and his connection to Apollo)
Why didnt Capcom created interactions with Clay?!!
Also most cases sucked
Countdown is boring,Athena is pushed as A Assistant,culprit sucks, it drags a little bit
Monstrous is the worst case in DD
This case is literally a Poor copy Of Turnabout sisters
Culprit is a ripoff of redd white,there is blackmail involved,the witness is in cahoot with the culprit,The culprit keeps incriminating themselves in the testimony
The mentioned something when should not have etc
You can find a lot of examples
The case is tedious and drags a lot,
Academy is not interesting(almost the worst in DD)
Cliche Friendship dilemna, culprit is obvious and horribly written
The case drags on and on,
And ofc the nail in the coffin in Academy
KLAVIER GAVIN HIMSELF
Bringing him was an insult to fans
He is not important, a pathetic excuse of fan service
The cosmic turnabout is fine
Short but fine and that is it
Turnabout for Tomorrow is
Well I dont like it
Because Again Cause of CLAY TERRAN AND ATHENA
She is not used as a leader(ESPECIALLY AGAINST THE PHANTOM)
Clay I already mentioned why
Also I dont like the Phantom as a final villain(he just does not fit for a final villain)
They did not explore him properly
And that is it
Those games are good but for AA standards they are horrible
I can't tell which one you hate more from the two. I'm guessing DD because there are a lot of points you had written for it
@@DerpyHiro actually
I hate AJ more than DD
I just wrote so much stuff about AJ in previous videos and this is my first about DD
For me AJ is the worst AA game
DD the 3rd worst(2nd is Miles Investigations)
@@diesakuma367 i would love to hear your opinion on SoJ
@@DivideBy0_ well
Soj for me its the 4th best AA game
I liked all the cases
1st case is way better than 5-1
its established worldbuilding,the laws in khurain etc
I like Ahlbi
I like the divination seance
and the culprit
Oh boy- I love the culprit
He is so entertaining and probably my fav 1st culprit(Dahlia and Kristoph dont count)
Magical turnabout- the best 2nd case in AA case itself is very good
Short but it is advantageous here,
Culprit is very good,Nahyuta is good(I am one of Nahyuta's fans-yes I know he is not the best but I like him anyway) I like the development for Trucy(finally she got it) the Sisters(Bonnes I think) were entertaining) and I liked thr brought Ema back
Rite of Turnabout
I like this case very much
We get so see Maya again(even tho she is Arrested AGAIN)
I liked that we got to spend time with Rayfa
I liked the mystery of the case
The plot twist about Tahrust commiting suicide is vey good and emotional
I am grateful that Divination Seance has some part in the story in the case
I love Buff(he is larry counterpart vut better)
Now the things I did not like
Behleeb being the culprit
We works but I think the case would be better if we cross-examined her
Maya being Arrested Again
And the case can drag in some parts
The Turnabout Storyteller-
The worst case in SOJ but because its filler but as a stand alone case is good
I Like Uendo-very interesting witness (he has DID)
I like that Simon is our side
Geiru is fine just the motive sucks
Nahyuta(he was the worst here but I was not pissed just confused)
I dont like Bucky he was annoying
Turnabout Revolution
Better finale than 5-5
I love Dhurke and his connection with Apollo
I like all characters here
I love Paul Atishon
He was vey funny-I was laughing my a** off when he was talking
I was shocked that you are going against Phoenix(in a good way)
I like the twist about Dhurke(you knoe which one)
I am fond of Garan
She is not the best but way better than Phantom
She is a solid Villain
Nahyuta obviously I like
We got great development from Rayfa
And Im loving that Apollo Stayed in Khurain to carry his father Legacy
The parts I dont like
The length(the could split the case in two parts but Im used to long cases so this one is fine)
Amara(she is fine but kinda annoying)
Maya part in the story
She feels like a plot device in this game for me
And that is it.
SOJ is a big improvement from DD
This is My opinion
@@diesakuma367 im surprised considering you hated AJ and DD
I’m a huge fan of Phoenix Wright and I have a hard time letting him go but that’s just a a flaw of mine, but eventually they gonna have to let him go or put him in the mentor’s seat. I’m not sure if I will continue the games after that (I’ve got attachment issues)but I think it’s best overall for the main series game.
Honestly the main problem is Shu Takumi didn’t want to continue after AA3. The higher ups at Capcom forced him to do AA4. What they should have done was have AAJ and DD done by the same team. Had they done that it would feel less disjointed between the two but I enjoyed both AJ and DD. I just think people have a hard time letting go of the original trilogy.
I'll admit, I'm extremely biased towards the modern games is because I am an Athena and Apollo fan, and I unabashedly enjoyed AA6. Aj was an interesting game for me, with hits and misses, I feel like the writers were thinking too much about money (Phoenix appearance lol) than they are trying to tell the good story with Apollo in the centre
I like both games, to be honest while I like AJ Phoenix I prefer DD Phoenix. I like the “dad” role he has with Apollo and Athena (yes I’m aware he has Trucy too). I also think Blackquill might be one of the best prosecutors in the series (Klavier is a close second). AJ Phoenix works well for that game but I’m very happy he got his badge back. I also don’t think it ruins the OG Trilogy since it feels like this is a new chapter in his life and the time skip makes it feel fairly separate. Overall both games are great and I really love them but I do prefer DD a bit more and I honestly don’t see a lot of people praising this game a whole lot.
If capcom ever tries to release AA7, they should just kept Athena + Phoenix as her mentor for the most part, try to bring and explore her arc before bringing another character more to the table
Otherwise just remove her altogether and put Phoenix as MC again, it's way better than sticking a character just for filler chapters
They divided them because the fanbase has no media Literacy and critical thinking skills ( look at how they talk about hobo Phoenix ) and can't let go of its nostalgia to the three first games
We're talking about the fandom who rivals Danganronpa in how toxic its shippers are, I'm not expecting smart people
Fair point and based.