First they said “No, you’re wrong, Rings of Power is good!” Now they say, “Ok, Rings of Power is bad, but you’re STILL wrong, because of the way you criticize it.”
Literally everything is like that these days. Just look at COVID. The people who were "conspiracy theorists" were proven correct a mere two years later.
If every show has to push an agenda because "everything is political", then why wouldn't critics be allowed to criticize the politics intertwined with the show? Isn't everything political anymore? Is that just something that is true when it suits them?
HFM gets upset that entertainment is turning into soulless horribly-written political propaganda. Chooses to blame the people who don't want political propaganda instead of the ones serving said political propaganda non-stop. The cognitive dissonance and mental gymnastics of certain people is astounding.
Hello Future Me just deleted that entire section of his video. Nearly 90 minutes of accusatory, overgeneralized, out of context content is gone. Good. Maybe he’ll think twice before pulling a stupid move like that again
And most of them like Community, and Buffy, and Star Trek and Babylon 5... Now 3 of those were pre-'woke' as a general term; Community both celebrated and critiqued wokeness itself but made it a major feature of many of the episodes; and Babylon 5 and Buffy were full of Fempowerment; yet curiously it didn't ruin the shows......
@@OsellaSquadraCorsethere have been strong women in media since forever. But the difference is they were still likeable and weren't written at the expense of the male characters. I suggest watching Frieren to see Galadriel from RoP done right.
@@user-qp6ew7vf7r Arcane starts weak and finishes strong. Blue Eyed Samurai started strong and finished weak. From that alone I know which one I am looking more forward to with a 2nd season in the works. LMAO
As a devotee of Tolkien's work since before RoP's writers were born, my issue with that rot was that it was produced by people who have no understanding whatever at what makes his work so *timeless*. I doubt they've even read the books.
Of course not! They only had a few pages of errata they could work with. Why read the stuff they can't use? It might corrupt them with taste and reason.
10:33 Somewhere I've read a good point on that: Diversity for diversity's sake is not a representation of the real world but a representation of Hollywood.
I agree. Diversity means for them: People who look different and all have the same opinion, otherwise they are outracized out of their club. People are drawn to diversity in a sense that movies should have different philosophies and themes. One movie can be a patriarchy, another a matriarchy and a third one a society that have both genders ruling. But if every story is the same it is boring. And that is basically what wokeness is. In the case that I mentioned, they would attack the movies that have a patriarchy or any theme and philosophy they dont agree with.
@@AdamWeisshaupt I'm a big fan of Final Fantasy XIV, which has a very, *very* gay player base - you can't throw a stone without hitting someone non-binary or homosexual. The game itself has a diversity of cultures and governing styles: the matriarchal Keepers of the Moon, the patriarchal Seekers of the Sun, the merging of church and state in Ishgard, the essentially theocratic rule of Gridania (in which the people's leader is merely an ambassador to the forest's Elementals, much like Moses being Israel's ambassador to God in the Bible), the heavily monarchic rule of Radz-at-Han, the nominally monarchic rule of Ul'dah, the Empire of Garlemald, Limsa Lominsa determining its leaders every few years by contests of strength and skill, etc. It is well loved by the community because the game is just... good. Not perfect, but the story attempts to be consistent in its worldbuilding, and even "evil" nations have great things about their cultures and people. This makes all of it feel alive and vibrant, which would never be the case if every place is a modern metropolitan melting pot. In FFXIV, every nation and people has good and evil qualities, and the players love each of them for that. Even the xenophobic evil empire is not made up of evil people, as we see when we actually meet many of them.
I’ve not watched Hello Future Me’s video on this, most of his stuff tends to boil down to “do what works for you but copy me at the same time” which I don’t find helpful, so I don’t bother anymore. “Progressivism” has, was and always will be evil to me, as it takes a Utilitarian, net-society view as an ideology. It’s a development of the latter, with this undefined goal to move towards and like most ideas with a life of its own, it doesnt care about the people it purposefully destroys to get to its undefined goal. In most fields, it manifests as punitive targets, and if you know anything about humans and targets, skullduggery ensues. If you have quota hiring, you would have to have excesses in each category to be able to fire any of them without being punished. This is how so much incompetence is being allowed free rein and tokenism and deadweight on the rise. I actually want diverse stories, a diverse corpus of stories, to be precise. I love Chinese stories, Indiana stories, African stories and I enjoy culture clash stories as long as they explain themselves well. Unfortunately, idiots think that they can cram all of those together and get the same results. They think that lying about my history and filling it with foreigners will make the world a better place, while simultaneously putting out documentaries about how hard they had it coming here in the seventies. They think every cast looking the same because of quotas makes things “authentic.” It’s a stupid world that is being built and the laws are behind it. I dread to think.
It's always amazing to look at some people turning themselves into a precel while trying to agree that woke thing bad but not because woke. They will say "it's just bad writing" without understanding where bad writing comes from, why suddenly for every hollywood writer it's more important that lose characters to never lose then to write a complex female character. As if it would be possible for Critical Drinker and alike to make a long running stable career out of critisizing media on wokeness-basis if the giant long running obvious pattern wouldn't exist
@@Angrenost02 I think since Arkane is based on long existed character's it's hard to say that it's woke for that. And the girls are not undefeatable in the story. I get that sometimes people become too kneejerky, like - there's black person in a videogame = woke, sometimes you need to chill on culture war. And there's also distinction on woke activist as a writer vs good writer who happens to have some woke beliefs but holds quality of the story first. Though i think more often then not writers are not so much even activists as much incompetent DEI hires that are promouted out of competence. So show bad not because story woke, but because hiring practicies are woke.
I'm usually a great fan of Hello Future Me's critiques, and his critique of Rings of Power was mostly spot on. I'm also a fan of Critical Drinker and his critique of Rings of Power mostly says the exact same thing as HFM's. The difference between the two critiques is that Drinker has an explanation of WHY the writers at RoP made the bad writing decisions they made: because their definition of "good writing" pretty much stops at "communicates my ideological message" - and to the extent it covers subjects like "character" or "plot" the only question to be answered is "are there enough 'marginalized groups' represented?" - and you've "written" enough to get on with. In other words, the worldview of the writers (and producers) is their own primary hobble. HFM's critique simply chalks the problems up to "someone hired bad writers" and then they were somehow stuck with the script they had.
Funnily, if you consider that HFM and ilk defends multibillionaire companies against ordinary people, this is even worse, as those companies should be a 'left-winger's' enemy
The issue that HFM is having is that he probably agrees with a lot of what the show is trying to do in terms of ideological messaging. It makes it hard to criticise thing beyond a surface level. The fact that he felt that he needed to devote a chunk of his video to 'going in on' people like Drinker suggests that he knows the reasons beyond 'bad writers' but he can't admit it and needs to make sure that he demonstrates his loyalty to his 'tribe'.
@@lastmonarchistproduction_253 that’s not what we are saying at all! But there is a clear difference between diversity and tokenism. U don’t care about what someone looks like I care about the story I can get behind.. write one character that’s appeals to of the 99.99999% of audiences. The best example I can give, if diversity was so important to attract a particular demographic why is it that dragon ball z, Naruto, demon slayer are very prevalent in the black community. How is it that a Japanese guy made something and the black community likes it. Japan and American cultures are very different. There was no diversity in the writers room, yet it spoke to them. Why? The only version of diversity that should be portrayed is diversity of thought and VERY few movies and shows can do that now. The best two examples I can give because I am a nerd are captain America civil war and an episode in the first season of punisher. Having healthy discussions about political topics while respecting and understanding both points of view. Stories should be unifying and they once were. We should write a story that allows for diverse perspectives on both sides to respectfully say what they want to say. However media only cares about diversity of skin color, gender, who you like. And it’s only to attract an audience. Look at Star Wars and John boyega, it’s tokenism at it finest. People just love a good character whose ideals appeal to them. So I ask you. What type of diversity do you champion? Because one I agree with and the other I don’t agree with
Let's face it... The woke-laden, message-peddling, third rate quality of shows such as RoP and any recent Marvel effort have made a lot of CZcams commentators quite famous. Frankly, long may those CZcamsrs (including this channel) speak out against Disney and Amazon's ruination of modern cinema. 👍👍👍👍
I don't watch the shows, but I have a lot o fun watching the youtubers, Echo is one of my favourites. I reached a point where I hope for more bad shows so I can laugh from the critics. I am looking forward to The Acolyte for this very reason.
@@phoster3322yes they are and even his A political self will call a spade a spade he will never refuse to crtisize something because it would be contravertial I like knowing I can trust that my film critic will have balls and tell me the truth and not pad his opinion with caveats and "I'm not like those other critics" etc. Authenticity is important.
HFM's actions make some kind of sense when you realize he's cultivated the same fanbase that tore Lindsay Ellis apart for using the "racist dogwhistle" words "if you squint" when criticizing Raya and the Last Dragon. He's been pretty apolitical through his career, but you could tell he was left-leaning. Turns out his audience wasn't all leftists.
Sucks too. I used to like his channel a good bit but started falling off until this happened. Unsubbed then. I can watch youtubers I disagree with, but when they start getting dishonest and pandery I bounce.
I think I'm still subscribed I'll fix that. I could tell he had no spine when he actively avoided any strong opinions that had political implications there's a difference between avoiding politics out of fear and simple focusing on A political elements we all knew Shadiversity's Values long befire he took a hard stance about films cause he never tried to hide it he just focused on what unified us as fans. For me if you gag yourself and insist on not looking up because you don't want answer the question is the sky blue or not then you are probably a sell out waiting to happen you stand for nothing and will fall for everything.
The problem is that Hello Future Me is a liberal with a progressive Tumblr lite Booktube audience, so whenever he has to criticize something he doesn’t like, he needs to sacrifice someone slightly to his right under the bus of progress.
the problem is he's so far left any one right of him would need to be shipped off to the gulag for "wrong think". People like TLP or JSG are probably as left as you can be and still be considered reasonable and yet he lumped them in together all the same. HFM's a clown and he went mask off with his video. If he wants to lob shots at these people i dont know, perhaps GO ON any one of their myriad of Podcasts and try having a candid discussion about it and try showing them the faults you find in their logic and critique? But no HFM couldnt find his balls for that, probably in his wife's boyfriend's backpack.
I wouldn't say it was done in bad faith. HFM took down the whole wokebros portion of the video after talking with Platoon about some stuff in private, so he must care.
He only cares about his image. He didn't put out an apology or a retraction. He quietly removed the part, giving a "mental issues" reason in a reply buried deep in the comments section of the video. HE doesn't care that he was wrong. He cares that he got called out.
Speaking as a liberal, if a critic gives a negative review of a show/movie, but they back up that opinion with many examples, from writing, editing, casting, acting, costume and set design, production issues, finance woes, and comparisons to other related works in the series or genre... ...and the only thing the positive reviewer can say about it is, "It's FUN! If you don't like it, YOU have the problem!..." ...well, I'm much more inclined to believe the negative review.
@@christopherkelley1664 I've been on his Wicked video which was just a slew of the very sort of right-wing "wokebro" buzzword-filled rambling this guy was talking about.
@@MagcargoMan His Gina Carano video is the one that his him sounding the most liberal out of any of his content. But he is kind of a changeling, and I can't pin him down exactly. He may be one of those people who are effectively no longer on the political left but have a sort of sentimental attachment to the title and the coded affectations. The academic Peter Boghossian is the same way.
Look, if you're being called a phobe of some tenuous description, or far/hard right by the likes of Hello Future Me, chances are you're just normal and decent.
Hello Future Me's criticism is even worse once you realise some on his list like for example: Just some guy and Random Film Talk are not even in the same sphere as the others. Just some Guy is left wing and Random Film Talk's reviews never have his politics in them, He can't even get his targets right.
A lot of the trouble with much "woke" media can, I believe, be summarized thus: 1. "Diversity" is seen as a cardinal virtue; once a character is observed to be diverse, writers don't feel a need for them to display other conventional virtues like loyalty, the ability to intelligently grapple with problems, or genuine courage. And giving such a character _flaws_ is anathema. Despite a lack of those qualities that would either allow them to overcome challenges or plausibly draw other characters who might help them to do so, it is unlikely they will face a long struggle with most of their problems. 2. The writers believe the views and values they champion are so universal, and anyone not whole-heartedly sharing them so vile, that not only do they not have to make a case for them, but are actively insulted by the idea that they _should_ have to make such a case. The in-media surrogates who champion those views are the heroes, by default; their opposers, the villains, also by default. There will never be anything like a spirited debate, or even a credible case for why the "heroic" values shall naturally cause them to win the day. Notably, these points do not dismiss the very idea of featuring "diverse" characters, or even supposedly "woke" ideology. They merely demand that they not be used to excuse bad work, particularly on the writing front, nor used as a substitute for _good_ work. Believing that your audience should be required to applaud you is not the same as earning their applause.
I agree until the end there you can't really have woke movies that are good with preexisting works woke can be traced back to intersectionality and further traced back to critical theory which is all about awakening the working class to the communist struggle it believes culture must be changed and exist to serve that goal. Therefore it's incompatible with authenticity the plot and characters are a means to an end they are not the point merely a vehicle of the message. Woke producing bad writing isn't a flaw it's a feature based on a reductive world view that sees all things only through the lense of power dynamics any element that conflicts with that narrative they will reject and then we get plot contrivance and characters acting like wooden caricatures of themselves. it's why Falcon's personality changed into oppressed black man in his own show why he can't pay to fix his parents boat because black people can't get loans in a racist american banking system despite the fact that makes no sense since he's a internationally famous superhero with advanced expensive technology technically a celebrity and a government contract worker that earns nearly a quarter million dollors a year "I know because I checked." They never even noticed this blatant plot contrivance because they dehumanized Falcon the character and made him a self insert for their reductive beliefs about the black experience in america he isn't a character he's a plot device! Meanwhile Baron Zemo was excellent because since he's a white male in a context where he doesn't have to be imasculated by a female lead he's allowed to be his intellegent charasmatic and most importantly individual self he doesn't exist to represent anyone.
I get the impression that Galadriel is meant to be a cautionary tale. The one thing we know is that Frodo has to save the day down the line, and Galadriel has altered her nature. The problem is that the writing is so incompetent that the audience doesn't have any trust. Galadriel swings from hate filled maniac to a saintly knight between episodes. The initial episode conveys part of the problem. She's a bad leader, who has lost the confidence of people who clearly aren't cowards (if they followed her long after it became clear she had issues). But then she cuts down a giant monster in a way that screams "girlboss". If wokeism tends to be making the diverse characters infallible, then this might be something slightly different. Some of the characters fail. Their actions contribute to making things worse. Tensions and greed allow characters to become corrupt. The female dwarf gives off a lady macbeth vibe in the posters. Again, if she a negative influence on her husband (whose primary trait otherwise is loyalty to his friend), then it isn't the standard "women can only do wrong as a function of male sway". If memory serves, the old king (male) didn't want to dig deep. If unlocking the balrog is a consequence, then the old white male king was probably right.
yea, bad takes like that can really sour you. I still watch him for his world building and writing videos. But his opinions on what is good, I ignore completely.
@@presleybaldwin3756 I think "common sense" can be applied to his world building and writing advice. Does the points he brings up make sense? And is it technically based?
@@And-ur6ol Yeah, that's true. It gets pretty tedious though, a lot of information sources are already compromised for one reason or another. Social Justice just makes it all the more difficult to sort through.
I don't care if HFM disagrees with other people's analyses or chooses to ignore what others may consider criticism-worthy aspects of recently made media. I do care when he conjures up a tent of "bad actors" so large that it includes political pundits and movie critics, self proclaimed religious conservatives and not-at-all-straight liberal atheists, pop-culture generalists and those creating autistically in-depth critiques, and then uses bits of sentences and video titles(!) from a random handful in his imaginary grab-bag to construct a single hive mind with a single purpose he claims applies to them all. That he stuck his incoherent, disingenuous diatribe inside a review, while accusing his targets of hiding their messaging in their reviews, is just a cherry on top of his lack of self awareness cake.
The tl;dr version: When you devolve into insults without providing a reasoned argument that can be discussed, you have no argument. For further discussion of this point, I refer anyone interested to watch Monty Python's "The Argument Clinic."
If the Galadriel from this shit-show was a male character, everyone on the far-left, from Tumblr/Twitter-addicts to journalists, would be accusing him of toxic masculinity. But because she's a woman, it's suddenly okay. I hate that double standard. The forced-diversity and forced-representation wasn't even needed. Instead of changing the skin-tones of the Numenereans, dwarves, and elves for no reason, they could have included the Easterlings (Harad, Rhûn) and expanded a bit upon their culture. Then they would have non-European characters naturally integrated into the story without any backlash or broken suspension of disbelief. By turning every backwater village, city, and town of Middle-earth into this multicultural society it wasn't in the books, it makes everything look exactly the same and they all lose what makes them unique from each other. Whether it's the backgrounds or the clothes people wear, the ethnic-diversity, the ugly armor, the lighting and color schemes of the environments, etc. they all lose their individuality. Meanwhile, in the LotR trilogy, you were able to instantly tell where every character was by the lighting, background designs, the music, the clothes, etc, regardless of all the characters being played by actors and actresses of white-European descent. Same with Game of Thrones. All the characters were played by diverse groups of people of various ancestries, yet they gave their characters all senses of belonging in their own sides of Westeros. You could instantly tell who was from where by clothing, ethnicity, voice, and you could instantly tell which part of the world any character was in by setting, lighting, clothes, music, armor, etc. So when they all came together to fight a threat bigger than them, the armies of the undead, none of them felt like they were included for the sole sake of diversity. Hell, these same groups of Twitter-addicts that support DEI "representation" (from Wheel of Time to The Witcher, to The Witcher: Blood Origins, to this pile of orc garbage) are currently questioning why Shogun, a series set in feudal Japan during the 1600s, doesn't have any black people. I wish I was lying. xD
Well these are probably American city folk where they are accustomed to seeing every person that could travel around the world, so quite the thing is for them they have such a small world though they would see people from across the world. Bad writers, who couldn’t care less about the source material and probably want to ruin its name because they don’t agree with it, and they probably just aren’t cut out for these types of settings or just need more experience (or just a different career entirely) Also I wouldn’t personally want the possibilities of what could be added to the LOTR be mediocre and tainted when someone else tries to come up with something better and have what came previously be not what should be, I would want the slate to be clean and greatness be placed upon there.
@Nicksonian I think it's a bit of both... A decline, not the death, just a decline, in creativity fostered the emergence of divisive identity politics. The emergence of identity politics lead to an assassination of what creativity was left as the "regime" pushed for it.
I can confirm it was deliberately the latter. "Each film or series with a creative team of three or more people in above-the-line roles (Directors, Writers, Producers) should ideally include a minimum 30% women and 30% members of an underrepresented racial/ethnic group. This aspirational goal will increase to 50% by 2024. -Casting actors whose identity (gender, gender identity, nationality, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, disability) aligns with the character they will be playing. -Aiming to include one character from each of the following categories in speaking roles, with minimum 50% of these to be women: LGBTQIA+, person with a disability, and three regionally -underrepresented race/ethnic/cultural groups. A single character can fulfill one or more of these identities. -Seeking at least three bids from vendors or suppliers on productions, one of which must be from a woman-owned business and one from a minority-owned business. Pay equity across casting, behind the camera staff and crew, and for vendors and suppliers." Yep, this is Amazon's Diversity, Equity, Inclusion playbook, I can't even imagine a Tolkien skilled writer succeeding at a good story with that kind of autocratic control.
Positive feedback loops. Once you have one of the problems, the other happily comes on board, which then reinforces the original problem and it spirals out of control soon afterwards.
I feel like this was a bait and switch attempt to "reach across the aisle" "Guys, I get it, the Rings of Power sucked, but you can't let those people over there be in the right! They have a perceived moral deficiency according to my 'current year' sensibilities and if it's ever seen they're right about anything, I could be lumped in with them! Nevermind how late to the party I am! Validate my opinions and just trust me bro!" I'm glad people like this are more self confident about their positions, it makes them easier to ignore when they try to decry anything for moral/ethical reasons.
I've been a fan of his for a long time, he actually been in agreement with us about what shows sucked but he never addressed the progressive politics side except in rare offhand comments that ended up being foreshadowing for this video. He even expressed worry over the Avatar adaptation and didn't want them taking Sokka's early sexist out for progressive reasons. I think he had the opposite problem. He was too close to us people "across the aisle" and was afraid of or already being accused of being one of us so decided to officially pick a side and jump to the far left because that's what the majority of his audience are based on the comments I had to wade through on that video. He seemed pretty comfortable in the center-left like a lot of us used to be, but the ideological parasites keep forcing everyone to pick a side, keep pushing people to be an extreme or be seen as the other extreme, and he got pushed to where the power in media currently is, the left.
I am having too much fun, listening to Nerdrotic,Critical Drinking, It's A Gundam as well as numerous other CZcamsrs ( including Echo here ) , have a field day exposing the moral toilet that is current day Hollywood. I don't really care what others think about what they say. These CZcamsrs ENTERTAIN ME. Gee. what a novel concept.
My biggest issue with Hello Future Me is how he released a video that is almost 2 years late in the party, but still has the audacity to hate on other CZcamsrs who actually SAID THE SAME THING about ROP. He says he doesn't like these CZcamsrs because they are using ROP as an example of the woke agenda that they don't like. And yet here he is, also using Ring of power to push his own beliefs. It's like he only used ROP as a an excuse to get his real message across - how he hates other CZcamsrs who have a different political belief than him. What a hypocrite and a lowlife.
Also if he really cares so much about these other creators insidiously manipulating young men, why didn't he make a video at the time? From his point of view he could've saved all those young men falling down the alt right pipeline but it's far too late now. Very odd timing.
What both Echo and Hello Future Me, who aren't American, seem to forget are the insults directed - right from the start, by the producers of the show - at the Tolkien fans. Suddenly, they were "fascist-adjacent," and such talk has become exceedingly inflammatory in America.
I will never understand how people can put themselves through these kinds of mental gymnastics. "This thing 100% forged in my ideology is horrible, but everyone complaining about it is actually the real problem and my ideology can never do wrong."
HFM has a handle on writing techniques, no doubt - but on this topic he is 100% wrong. Content does not need to be everything to everyone and any attempt to do so just waters down the story itself and ruins the narrative. An all white cast in a Viking period piece, or an all black cast in a film like Black Panther, does not mean they are exclusionary or racist - they're just true to the story and the world in which it takes place. Hollywood's version of diversity and inclusion is to "exclude" mostly male white characters, and straight heterosexual romances. That's not opinion, it's fact with data and numerous examples from the past 5 years to back it up. Like the witch-hunts or inquisitions of the past, DEI's true motive is a spiteful self-serving attempt to power grab and control. Let's hope this era ends sooner than later and entertainment returns to being - ENTERTAINING.
"I cant believe youre not siding with the establishment viewpoint after the establishment has spent decades telling you that youre bad and should feel bad!"
So glad you brought this up, i was watching that review on and off for the last few days but the level of inconsistency and lack of any willingness to acknowledge the issues that lead to the problems with the script that he does address made it very hard to finish, and i still haven’t It really didn't sit right with me the way he offers so much credit to payne and mckay for things they very obviously did not intend to do
What people like HFM fail to understand is that the creators of the show are looking at “woke” 1st, so the movie/show becomes subordinate to the woke message. The way the actors look, the writers and directors that are hired all have this one purpose from corporate and the chance that what gets spit out is crap, is extremely high. It would be like me cooking a dinner but hellbent on using no salt or spices and then my dinner guests being shocked when what they eat is bland, inedible crap. They can point to my cutting and stirring skills. They can point to the need for fresher ingredients. But then they get pissed at the one guest who says, just put some f’ing salt and spices in there.
I used to think like Hello Futre Me does. I thought the problem was just bad writing and not the politics of Wokeness. But the problem is when you ignore that elephant in the room, things don't make much sense like: If these shows aren't being watched, why won't the showrunners listen to fans and fix the problem? Why does it seem like the worst people to write these adaptations are the only ones getting hired to do them? Why do these shows keep putting in uncomfortable, racist dialogue when it's really hypocritical? Why are some tv shows not being made anymore when they are still beloved by audiences? Why are people saying DEI is making these companies money when it's actually doing the opposite? Why are there more race-swaps than ever before happening in tv and video games? Once you go down the rabbit hole and discover things like the WGA "diversity" survey, the Geena Davis Institute's diversity spellchecker, the sensitivity readers in the publishing industry, the abuse of power and blackmail happening in these industries, the bot accounts on Twitter attacking creators and actors, the politically motivated consultation companies, and all the other craziness, you can't chalk it all up to just bad writing anymore. It's a systemic issue now.
In fact, in this discussion, you really can't separate the two anymore, because all those things you list in the 2nd paragraph (Sensitivity Censorship, DEI Consultants, Diversity Checkboxes) are in fact at the root of the bad writing. They are (partly) the cause. It's why every backwater village, town and space-station looks equally diverse, and thus the same, and you don't know where you are, until you see a cow, a car or a shuttle pass by. It's why, even though the lesson in the original was "you need to work together", the current version can't have the woman being saved and so she saves herself and thus the theme loses cohesion and the story is weakened. It's why the villains can't be actual bad guys if they could be seen as representing a marginalized group, and thus the plot gets bent badly out of shape to prevent this. And it's why everything becomes horrifically samey and predictable, because everything goes through the same woke filters and checkboxes. Oh, and I still consider myself left (European left, not American left : P). But I refuse to be radical (-ized).
It sounds like HelloFresh or whomever, while having a literary and progressive background, may not understand the concept of The Fandom. Fandoms existed well before the post-2016 progressive culture wars. The Fandom of an IP is literally a group of people who unite in their love of an IP. It's always been a group of people who are devoted to the franchise, regardless of politics or identity. The kind of intensity and critique and protection of the lore has existed in these spaces for decades. It just so happens that he's committing some fallacy of projecting progressive -ist -isms on the fandom based on the current cultural zeitgeist parameters. A fandom is going to be highly passionate in its debates and defend outside influences attempting to infiltrate or vandalize an IP. This is the nature of the fandom. The fact is that now these character or political traits are being overlaid on them because of the discourse politically. He doesn't understand the culture, at all. The temperament that makes a person a fan to the level of fandom transcends identity politics groups.
With Rings of Power in particular, you could sense the producers of the show had no respect whatsoever for Tolkien's vision or ideas. That's what makes these skin suit shows so horrible. These activists take something that people love and hollow it out and wear it like a skin suit and then call you a bigot for noticing that it is poor fan fiction at best and more like hateful, spiteful deconstruction. They set out to depict modern Las Angeles on screen and act shocked when people are rightly pointing out that isn't what Tolkien wrote.
HFM video spends 4 hours saying that the show is rubbish while avoiding some of the fundamental reasons why it's rubbish. He then goes out of his way to slag off a group of people who have no beef with him and are willing to address the issues the show has, which he is willfully not acknowledging. It's a weird move for a guy with over a million subscribers.
Unsubbed from hello future me over that one. Like most people infected with woke I've been seeing the rot for a while, ever since he discussed Azula and Zuko from Avatar's "abusive childhoods", and "trauma!" It's sad, since yes, he's had some good analyses in the past, but so it goes. Once the woke rot steps in and people start on the accusing others of being istaphobes train, there's no coming back. Are there real sexists and racists out there? Undoubtedly, but pointing out misandry does not make one a misogynist, just as pointing out anti-white racism does not make one racist against black people. This is the truth which the wokesters want to make people forget, prejudice is prejudice in whatever direction, and bad writing fuelled by prejudice is still bad whoever it's prejudiced against. Not to mention the moral bankruptcy, and inherent nihilistic greyness implicit to all woke writings, Rings of power most definitely included, since fundamentally if you set out in the belief that there is no good or evil, but only societal power, and your only virtue in a story is redistributing that power to those whom you believe deserve it, you cannot make a story which will resonate with most normal, decent human beings!
Hello Future Me is basically just looking at the symptoms (bad writing, miscasting, bad acting), while denying the underlying cause (feminism, wokeness, etc).
I saw about 20 minutes of one episode when my kids were watching Rings of Power. The dialogue was so banal and cringey that I had to leave the room. I was hoping it would be good because I love LOTR. Echo is SPOT ON here. The woke folk can bear no criticism. Theirs is a world devoid of introspection and its resulting humility.
The big problem with these female characters that act like men is that the writers treat these "toxic" characteristics as if they are empowering and good when given to a female. Prime example is to compare the MCU Tony Stark to Captain Marvel. Both are given many of the same characteristics but only in Tony is it made clear that these traits must be reformed. Part of Tony's character arc, and part of the experience of masculinity generally, is learning to reform genuinely toxic characteristics such as greed, womanizing, cockiness, etc.
A trojan horse? Lol we anti wokeism are very vocal about it . Trojan horse he says... 😂No no no mate, the bad writing is a byproduct of DEI and activism over professionalism. Lgbt and feminism are different chapters of the same cult, and less and less people are hiding how disgusted and tired they are of this new inquisition. "Trojan horse".. 😂😂😂
The funniest thing is that he lumps a channel named "The Woke Critic" in with everyone else and claims that they're secretly political. I don't know what else you'd expect from someone with "woke" literally in their name! 😆
"Each film or series with a creative team of three or more people in above-the-line roles (Directors, Writers, Producers) should ideally include a minimum 30% women and 30% members of an underrepresented racial/ethnic group. This aspirational goal will increase to 50% by 2024. -Casting actors whose identity (gender, gender identity, nationality, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, disability) aligns with the character they will be playing. -Aiming to include one character from each of the following categories in speaking roles, with minimum 50% of these to be women: LGBTQIA+, person with a disability, and three regionally -underrepresented race/ethnic/cultural groups. A single character can fulfill one or more of these identities. -Seeking at least three bids from vendors or suppliers on productions, one of which must be from a woman-owned business and one from a minority-owned business. Pay equity across casting, behind the camera staff and crew, and for vendors and suppliers." This is apparently Amazon's DEI playbook for every show. They call it that! Yep, this is is DEI system of control. Killer of creativity, the true diversity of ideas.
You can, but it's much harder than just writing normally. That's why the overwhelming majority is terrible, but a few are great like Arcane and Spiderverse.
Shows can be woke and good; it happens all the time. The issue is that wokeness will take a show that no one likes and turn it into a show that has a divisive, self-serious, hostile bend to it that makes it hateful to any members of the audience who prefer message free media. It’s even worse in RoP because it is an existing property that was highly by a beloved historic figure who would be highly offended by the use of his world as a progressive political statement
@@christaylor7079 I wouldn't say it happens all the time, if it did, there wouldn't be a problem. Yes, they can be good, but it's very rare that they are. It's much more difficult to write well when you're bound by ideological constraints, not to mention writers aren't hired based purely on merit, but on adherence to ideology. That is not an environment conducive to good story telling.
There are very very rare instances of things that are woke but also objectively well written BG3 has alot of woke, gay shit in it, but most of writing is great. But the thing is, it's great because the woke elements exist on the side and don't infest most of the actual characters. Shadowheart isn't stopping me to lecture about the patriarchy or how bad men are nor is there an obvious Donald Trump allegory.
It's weird that multiple movie channels are simultaneously doing hit pieces on FNT crowd right after Nerdrotic hits the 1m subs cap. This feels like a coordinated thing.
It should also be factored in that New Zealand notoriously always lags behind on social/cultural/political movements. Takes a while for the bad ideas of the rest of the world to make it to NZ and take root. I was just there recently, and unfortunately woke is really only in its bloom phase there, rather than the wilted and rotting weed it has become elsewhere. HFM is months if not years behind, so it isn't surprising that his take is a stale rehash of arguments made by more international wokesters over a year ago. It could seem surprising that even in the internet age someone could remain so far behind the curve that they think -ist and -phobe claims are worth making, but one must appreciate that for HFM, these are actually new concepts. He truly doesn't understand just how naïve and damaging such notions are because NZ is only just beginning to grapple with the damage they cause.
Oh no my channel is growing irrelevant and stale. Time to be a contrarian and throw some stones from my glass house out of jealousy and spite, so i can squeeze as much viewership and drama out of the situation that follows from it. I've seen this cycle happen again and again over the years and it's nothing new. Outstanding criticism made here however.
Another big distinction is that many of the CZcamsrs who attacked do the vast majority of their time behind camera in a live-stream format, where things are said off the cuff, ideas are explored, bad takes are made and analyzed, etc. It's super easy to find some snippet that sounds bad out of context from hundreds of hours of unscripted video. HFM, on the other hand, does primarily scripted, fairly polished, rehearsed, and edited videos. There's nothing wrong with that, but it felt like he was trying to hold live stream content to the same standard.
I was, and perhaps still am a “progressive.” Yet I find myself in line with the perceptive analyses of Echo Chamberlain, Critical Drinker, and Call Me Chato. I was a traditional journalist by trade who endeavored to keep a check on my personal bias and prejudice. Yet today, I find myself appalled that in the name of inclusivity, bias and prejudice now runs rampant. We are told that anxiety now runs rampant throughout society. Maybe that’s because women are told they need to be masculine bosses and men must be prissy losers. We’re told that men who want to be women deserve more rights than real women. I watch these videos critiquing popular culture so I don’t have to watch the actual trash they’re examining. Jordan Peterson started out with valid ideas but has devolved into a nitwit.
I feel like a fool. I commented on Tim's (Hello Future Me) ROP video praising it (and I still think the first part actually discussing the show's problems is pretty good as well), specifically the second half "wokebros" part which the more that I think back on it now the more I realized I turned my brain off and ignored my intuition that he was being quite disingenuous to many of the creators mentioned (And in the case of Random Film Talk had no right to be in it at all but was there for some reason. But at the very least in the replies to my comment he did recognize it was a mistake to include him there) with what they do and say. I think it was because he's a creator I actually quite like and have been subscribed long before he's had the success he does now so I was very bias with the whole thing. I just feel so damn bad about it because of course you shouldn't agree with creators you like 100% but at the same time they can tend to make good points more often than not and that's what most of the creators mentioned in it actually do and I feel as though I betrayed them for a moment by liking that part of the video and forgetting the frankly undeniable fact at this point that identity politics is a problem in entertainment . In any case I do hope others like The Little Platoon and Just Some Guy talk about this as well. I still like Hello Future Me but I am disappointed that he chose to do some of the things he ironically criticized the creators he's talking about for in that part of the video. This is a very fair take on it!
Hello future me always gave off a vibe of spineless toxic positivity he's like a Pick Me for progressivism utterly benign in all opinion yet percieves himself as nuanced and caring unless of course he wants to make reductive insults and say "I'm not like other girls" about youtubers with more conviction than him. So in the spirit of hating when people refuse to have definitive contraversial opinions in order to fit in I'm gonna say this here and now, anyone who thinks bad writing in the major franchises of the last decade has nothing to do with progressive ideology is an idiot full stop. I guarantee Hello future me wouldn't last an hour with little platoon of Mauler in a debate about wether the politics had anything to do with lack of quality control in the last few years and I picked those 2 because they are the least biased and heavily focus on writting. The essense of the woke problem can be distilled down to and ends justify the means mindset they believe that what they are doing is a moral crusade therefore critisism is akin heresy. I've used this example before in Wandavision fans asked during the final episode why doctor strange didn't stop wanda and In a statement kevin fiege said " we didn't want a man in a position of power over a woman" so explicitly they chose to create a plot contrivance because their Idealogical morals came first that is an irifutable fact. That very mentality can be found in every majory studios writing staff in Hollywood "it's okay that rey is a mary sue because it empowers women and if you care more about the plot than the message you are a bad person." The minute they elevated any ideological priority over the story they lost all credibility. Tolkien was great because he understood plot came before message hence why he found Allegory distasteful. The message must serve the plot not the other way around and that is why people hate woke we want plot, character, and entertainment to be the first consideration for every project it's why Andor with it's lesbian characters was so great yet the sequel trilogy is so bad. Kathleen keneddy wanted star wars with girls she didn't want to explore luke unifying the force in the wake of the end of the sith, she didn't want to explore how the galaxy was reconstructed and what new threats would emerge oh no she wanted lightsabers and tits that's it.
Quite a polite but solid rebuttal Echo. I also admire you for being honest about the Kiwi's unrequited and secret love. Now if we Aussies can only be more honest about ours. 👍
What I love about the "Fellowship" is they are rabid Tolkien fans and explain their love honestly and humorously. The missing element from the outraged pear clutchers is fun. A masterwork the caliber of Lord of the Rings deserves honor, not neo-marxist social engineering extrusions. Enjoyed this video echo, clear and well written.
Random Film Talk shouldn't have been on that list if this was "Hello Future Me"'s problem with those critics. Goes to show he didn't watch the videos and jumped to a conclusion. RFT's series was a deep dive into the writing, and from what I recall after watching his series I believe he left out political and ideological topics all together. He certainly obliterated the show for it's bad quality, which was all deserved.
@0That_Guy0 Exactly this. It proves how two-faced HFM is when he didn't even watch RFT's videos about the subject. Not once did any outside politics or anything get in, to my knowledge (it's 14 hours, I may have missed some, lol). It was exclusively about the writing, world-building, and story telling within the show, and how terrible it is. He even went out of his way to make sure we KNEW he was NOT comparing it to the source. It was a critique of the show and the show alone. If HFM has watched even the first video, he'd know that. But he didn't, showing how malicious his inclusion of RFT was.
and this is why korean, japanese, and chinese drama are dominating. i already watch 3 chinese fantasy drama that are far superior to rings of powers, that even has female overpowered characters. and they're not even mary sues.
You could argue this is a direct result of "wokeness". These days all shows must have diverse main characters, and it's frowned on for white men to write non-white-men characters (maybe the reverse is true too, not sure), so committee is the only solution.
So I think we need to make something very clear to people who don't fully understand what we mean when we say woke. It has nothing to do with an actual strong female character. As many of my favourite all time characters are female but the difference is that the ones I love had to suffer or work super hard to achieve her goals. They get knocked around the place, their personalities are often flawed, they form relationships with those around them and they don't just throw insults at other characters (Unless it's part of their personality and well established why she does that). The first symptom of a girl boss that we saw as part of the terrible ideology is that everything must be handed to their "strong" woman because the writer can not bear to see their character have a single flaw because for some stupid reason this would be bad for women. The other problem than comes to prop up their strong female character. The writers have to go out of their way to undermine other characters, making them weaker, outright stupid or just a blatant stereotype that no man would ever condone. Like they always put in a scene of a man trying to be "harass" a woman. Now I put harass in quotes is because often it's just a bar scene with a man trying to talk to them. That's it. Now I don't know about you but these writers do know that talking in a bar with strangers is a normal thing right? All you have to do to make someone go away is ask and they'll often do so. The next part is not none of us have a problem with LGBT people or those of different cultures, religions and so on. The problem I have is when a characters personality is just hyper focused on that one small part of them. Their sexual identity or whatever else becomes the characters entire point of existing. The character doesn't often exist for any other reason. They don't add to the story as a whole and so because they've done this so many times. It has led those of us sane enough to understand pattern recognition that whenever the first word out of any actors, directors or writers mouth is "first X to do this X thing" or "Diversity is super important". You just groan because you know the character or show is likely going to be worthless. They'll never explain why diversity is important because it isn't. You can have an amazing story about a bunch of animals or robots or aliens. We fall in love with characters that you can understand. I can't understand a character whose just sprouting random talking points that the writer has shoved down their throats.
If a studio says that they are "re-writing" an original work or a historical event to make it far better for today's "generation" then that should send an alarm to everyone. This is not something that HFM could easily understand.
What a brutal takedown. The ahem, "heavy-drinking" CZcams review landscape was definitely enhanced when you came onto the scene. People like you who stretch to engage with those with differing ideologies to see what's really going on (rather than what narratives are being fed by one particular echo chamber or another) are, and I don't exaggerate here, what keeps society alive. Keep it up.
I find the most damning thing about the whole affair is how he silently pruned out that section of the video with not a word to be said on the subject.
I love that Random Film talk got thrown in! He didn't mention anything political he like Hello future me did and episode by episode criticized bad writing and the terrible storylines that absolutely do not make sense
Putting RFT in was bizarre. At the the shade thrown towards Drinker, Nerdrotic and Co. could be taken somewhat seriously because they do talk about the BTS politics and its impact on the on-screen product, but RFT keeps it limited to the show/movie. It gave me an idea of what the guy's like.
@@AcidifiedMammoth yeah I totally agree! I was thinking when I first was watching the HFM video you may dislike Nerdrotic and the guys but they're not wrong
It's only "bad writing" and "lack of talent" if you discount what the people who make these movies and shows say. They say that the point of their work is to tear down white straight Christian men. They say that ideology and politics is everything, in everything, and the most important thing. They say anything you put out in media either promotes or hurts their message, and that you should only create stuff that promotes it
That's just great I found your channel and also someone who thinks alike. This is a nice video with good points. You just make sense and you seem like a well balanced person. Subscribed ! Cheers from the other side of the planet !
This does bring up an important point. Does the modern cultural view want to show that femininity is superior to masculinity, or do they just want women who act like men? What's the point of creating a matriarchy if it's just going to do the same things that the patriarchy does?
I begin to think as they let it slip now and then that it's about revenge for past perceived misdeeds those advocating for it have never personally suffered. That's what happens when you have it good since you arrived on the planet. You start imagining grievances and all you have to go on is what you read about the past but you don't know what it was like so you make it up.
People are actively trying to replace history and reality with wishful thinking. If we continue down this part we will just end up repeating past mistakes
_Game of Thrones_ went to incredible lengths, probably rivalling Tolkien, with their world-building. Not only is (e.g.) The North racially homogeneous, but for all of the Starks and the commoners around Winterfell they even ensured consistency of regional accent: specifically Yorkshire, Sean Bean's native accent. Liam Cunningham - Ser Davos - did the entire show in a Geordie (Tyneside) accent, despite being Irish himself.
As a writer I appreciate Hello Future Me's critiques of story telling mechanics of many movies, books, and shows. He does great break down of story telling concepts. What he also does is give no push back on anything being inserted from outside story telling that could possibly be corrupting the art.
The problem is their failed acknowledgment of force diversity without thoughtfulness and intelligence and above else understanding. While at the same time seeing themselves as the pinnacle of all understanding and intelligence within their beliefs of social issues and the writing says otherwise.
Funniest thing is, most of the critics he lambasted LOVED Arcane, a technically woke series. And Critical Drinker himself gave a fair but negative review of Lady Ballers.
Wow, I only just noticed how bad that forced-perspective shot with the faux-Hobbit giving Gandalf some food is, you can really tell they're about 3 foot off to the side from each other.
I never understood attacks at JP as if he's some kind of a radical. I don't follow him closely, but the only time i recall him getting even heated was during debate with Destiny and even then it was rather respectful and dissipated quiet quickly. Of all the panels with feminists and other opponents i've seen him with, he was consistently the only one who would refrain from personal attacks one way or another and who would actually listen to what other side is saying.
Lord of the Rings trilogy's Elrond was perfect. You saw he had the grace of an elf but he always had the gravitas of a manly leader. He didn't need a huge beard or mega muscles, he exuded experience and strength. Rings of Power's Elrond is just some soyboy.. what a let down.
As much as I LOVE the content that Hello Future Me has made, with non-stop helpful content for writing and making stories/characters, I couldn't believe he was simplifying that anyone (youtubers like Yellowflash etc.) talking bad about projects like 'Rings of Power' are just racists/sexist. Love Tom, but damn did some of his rants make me cringe.
What I also find very funny is how this kind of people always "speak for the A-Z community", because they know best. I am sure, a lot of people in this "communities" do not have an interest of some enlightened know it all speaking from them, and telling others how they think. I think this whole "ultra progressive ideology" will likely do more harm than good to the people they pretend fighting for - seems often more a tool for self-elevation. A good example is, that some of the CZcamsrs he is bashing are nonideological besides when it comes to movie and story quality, many of them are also making fair reviews, if a movie or series is actually good - no matter if it is "progressive". Good example, the Arcane Reviews. But I am very sure he did not even bother to do his homework there. Otherwise, he would also have realized, that besides that some of the CZcamsrs are absolute LotR nerds, black, or very openly gay. Which makes this especially hilarious - yet so typical for the people in activist mode on a moral high ground. PS: I also watched Random Film Talks response - someone who does an excellent job, and contrary to some others, I have no idea how he even made it on to this list - seems there was very little research.
I knew I wasn't the only one who noticed this dude's ridiculous take. He has 4 hours to explain why Rings of Power sucks and he spends over half of it attacking the Fellowship (the youtuber gang, not the LOTR fellowship)
I watched that video, enjoyed it. Halfway through he started a rant and I assumed it would be just a ten minutes rant, but no... It got tiring, so I tried to skip forward, back to the review, there was nothing more on the subject. It was a bit clickbaity, cowardly and a bit of a highschool behaviour. He could have made two videos and put a proper title on it.
First they said “No, you’re wrong, Rings of Power is good!”
Now they say, “Ok, Rings of Power is bad, but you’re STILL wrong, because of the way you criticize it.”
Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.
We are sadly still at stage 2.
Who is “they”?
@@blugaledoh2669 Me and my buddy Tim
@@blugaledoh2669 the access media, certain CZcams reviewers.
The Rankin-Bass adaptations of The Hobbit and The Return of the King had their quirks. But even they respected Tolkien more than Rings of Power.
Wow, it takes a special kind of ego to be almost 2 years late to the party and then have the nerve to criticize the people who got there before you.
Such is life
EXCELLENT WORK. ECHO CHAMBERLAIN
@@BrandonScott-mi5pz you are welcome
LoL It took him 2 years to think about it. Hope he someone doing his tax returns.
Literally everything is like that these days. Just look at COVID. The people who were "conspiracy theorists" were proven correct a mere two years later.
If every show has to push an agenda because "everything is political", then why wouldn't critics be allowed to criticize the politics intertwined with the show? Isn't everything political anymore? Is that just something that is true when it suits them?
because lefties shift goalposts in an endless attempt to ignore the contradictions inherent in the nonsense they push.
Everything being political is a Marxist philosophy
Yes, that's what they think.
Because they sound surprised that there’s a political message there considering the movies they like are also political
Everything is just something that is true when it suits them.
HFM gets upset that entertainment is turning into soulless horribly-written political propaganda.
Chooses to blame the people who don't want political propaganda instead of the ones serving said political propaganda non-stop.
The cognitive dissonance and mental gymnastics of certain people is astounding.
Dude, that's his whole career. He's a writing advice channel who can't write.
I'm getting really tired of this "all those other reviewers are bad and mean and stupid and I'm nothing like them, " subgenre of movie reviews.
It is as if someone was getting beat up in an alley and HFM gets mad at the people for calling the attackers out.
Doesn't sound like he has any cognitive dissonance to me. You give him too much credit.
Leftists aren't known to be an intelligent hive mind.
Hello Future Me just deleted that entire section of his video. Nearly 90 minutes of accusatory, overgeneralized, out of context content is gone.
Good. Maybe he’ll think twice before pulling a stupid move like that again
The full video is up on his Nebula account 😂
that video was 4 hours right? how long is it now? don't wanna give the guy a view.
@@markgregorygacosta531
The new video is now 2 hours 33 minutes
@@smd1876You have a Nebula account? Eeeewwww.
@@lukew6725 I dont
Great response. I may not be a Kiwi, but next to Guyladriel, that sheep suddenly appears quite enticing.
It's not ecen that she is ugly. She is just completely insufferable every time she opens her mouth or does anything. Like breathing for example.
Hi there
You must be Welsh, then.
@@kamikaze5528, you must have no original jokes, then.
@@rob776 I do. if I told them you'd be more offended than you are now, though.
Everyone on that list praised Arcane and most of them praised Spiderverse and Dune.
And most of them like Community, and Buffy, and Star Trek and Babylon 5... Now 3 of those were pre-'woke' as a general term; Community both celebrated and critiqued wokeness itself but made it a major feature of many of the episodes; and Babylon 5 and Buffy were full of Fempowerment; yet curiously it didn't ruin the shows......
@@OsellaSquadraCorsethere have been strong women in media since forever. But the difference is they were still likeable and weren't written at the expense of the male characters. I suggest watching Frieren to see Galadriel from RoP done right.
Arcane an Blue Eyed Samurai were crap for me. Also The Boys is a overrated show.
@@user-qp6ew7vf7r Arcane starts weak and finishes strong. Blue Eyed Samurai started strong and finished weak. From that alone I know which one I am looking more forward to with a 2nd season in the works. LMAO
@@user-qp6ew7vf7r The earlier seasons of "The Boys" are actually good.
As a devotee of Tolkien's work since before RoP's writers were born, my issue with that rot was that it was produced by people who have no understanding whatever at what makes his work so *timeless*. I doubt they've even read the books.
Of course not! They only had a few pages of errata they could work with. Why read the stuff they can't use? It might corrupt them with taste and reason.
If you watch the interviews they give, they literally think they're better than Tolkien and are improving on his work.
You and I are of an age, and of a mind.
@@GeraltofRivia22 I got the exact same take from those interviews
They haven't read any book, ever.
10:33 Somewhere I've read a good point on that:
Diversity for diversity's sake is not a representation of the real world but a representation of Hollywood.
I agree. Diversity means for them: People who look different and all have the same opinion, otherwise they are outracized out of their club.
People are drawn to diversity in a sense that movies should have different philosophies and themes. One movie can be a patriarchy, another a matriarchy and a third one a society that have both genders ruling. But if every story is the same it is boring. And that is basically what wokeness is.
In the case that I mentioned, they would attack the movies that have a patriarchy or any theme and philosophy they dont agree with.
@@AdamWeisshaupt I'm a big fan of Final Fantasy XIV, which has a very, *very* gay player base - you can't throw a stone without hitting someone non-binary or homosexual. The game itself has a diversity of cultures and governing styles: the matriarchal Keepers of the Moon, the patriarchal Seekers of the Sun, the merging of church and state in Ishgard, the essentially theocratic rule of Gridania (in which the people's leader is merely an ambassador to the forest's Elementals, much like Moses being Israel's ambassador to God in the Bible), the heavily monarchic rule of Radz-at-Han, the nominally monarchic rule of Ul'dah, the Empire of Garlemald, Limsa Lominsa determining its leaders every few years by contests of strength and skill, etc.
It is well loved by the community because the game is just... good. Not perfect, but the story attempts to be consistent in its worldbuilding, and even "evil" nations have great things about their cultures and people. This makes all of it feel alive and vibrant, which would never be the case if every place is a modern metropolitan melting pot. In FFXIV, every nation and people has good and evil qualities, and the players love each of them for that. Even the xenophobic evil empire is not made up of evil people, as we see when we actually meet many of them.
I’ve not watched Hello Future Me’s video on this, most of his stuff tends to boil down to “do what works for you but copy me at the same time” which I don’t find helpful, so I don’t bother anymore.
“Progressivism” has, was and always will be evil to me, as it takes a Utilitarian, net-society view as an ideology. It’s a development of the latter, with this undefined goal to move towards and like most ideas with a life of its own, it doesnt care about the people it purposefully destroys to get to its undefined goal.
In most fields, it manifests as punitive targets, and if you know anything about humans and targets, skullduggery ensues. If you have quota hiring, you would have to have excesses in each category to be able to fire any of them without being punished. This is how so much incompetence is being allowed free rein and tokenism and deadweight on the rise.
I actually want diverse stories, a diverse corpus of stories, to be precise. I love Chinese stories, Indiana stories, African stories and I enjoy culture clash stories as long as they explain themselves well.
Unfortunately, idiots think that they can cram all of those together and get the same results. They think that lying about my history and filling it with foreigners will make the world a better place, while simultaneously putting out documentaries about how hard they had it coming here in the seventies. They think every cast looking the same because of quotas makes things “authentic.”
It’s a stupid world that is being built and the laws are behind it. I dread to think.
The slimy twist used is so tiring, "Oh, you noticed our political grift, what political grifters you are!"
"Accuse your enemies of what you yourself are doing"
Confession by projection
Wokeness is dying, and there’s nothing they can do about it. And it’s hilarious watching them lose
It's always amazing to look at some people turning themselves into a precel while trying to agree that woke thing bad but not because woke. They will say "it's just bad writing" without understanding where bad writing comes from, why suddenly for every hollywood writer it's more important that lose characters to never lose then to write a complex female character. As if it would be possible for Critical Drinker and alike to make a long running stable career out of critisizing media on wokeness-basis if the giant long running obvious pattern wouldn't exist
Exactly. How does he think Gary has a million subs and Drinker nearly 2 million if its all based on lies and manipulation?
It all depends on what's your definition of woke really. Some people called Arcane woke when it came out.
And ironically, Drinker recommend Arcane. As did RFM, who was also mentioned in the video.
@@Angrenost02 I think since Arkane is based on long existed character's it's hard to say that it's woke for that. And the girls are not undefeatable in the story. I get that sometimes people become too kneejerky, like - there's black person in a videogame = woke, sometimes you need to chill on culture war. And there's also distinction on woke activist as a writer vs good writer who happens to have some woke beliefs but holds quality of the story first.
Though i think more often then not writers are not so much even activists as much incompetent DEI hires that are promouted out of competence. So show bad not because story woke, but because hiring practicies are woke.
@@OldyAlbert I absolutely agree.
I'm usually a great fan of Hello Future Me's critiques, and his critique of Rings of Power was mostly spot on. I'm also a fan of Critical Drinker and his critique of Rings of Power mostly says the exact same thing as HFM's. The difference between the two critiques is that Drinker has an explanation of WHY the writers at RoP made the bad writing decisions they made: because their definition of "good writing" pretty much stops at "communicates my ideological message" - and to the extent it covers subjects like "character" or "plot" the only question to be answered is "are there enough 'marginalized groups' represented?" - and you've "written" enough to get on with. In other words, the worldview of the writers (and producers) is their own primary hobble.
HFM's critique simply chalks the problems up to "someone hired bad writers" and then they were somehow stuck with the script they had.
Funnily, if you consider that HFM and ilk defends multibillionaire companies against ordinary people, this is even worse, as those companies should be a 'left-winger's' enemy
HFM said the same things as the people he’s going after
The issue that HFM is having is that he probably agrees with a lot of what the show is trying to do in terms of ideological messaging. It makes it hard to criticise thing beyond a surface level. The fact that he felt that he needed to devote a chunk of his video to 'going in on' people like Drinker suggests that he knows the reasons beyond 'bad writers' but he can't admit it and needs to make sure that he demonstrates his loyalty to his 'tribe'.
So what you’re saying is that diversity doesn’t work in any story
@@lastmonarchistproduction_253 that’s not what we are saying at all! But there is a clear difference between diversity and tokenism. U don’t care about what someone looks like I care about the story I can get behind.. write one character that’s appeals to of the 99.99999% of audiences. The best example I can give, if diversity was so important to attract a particular demographic why is it that dragon ball z, Naruto, demon slayer are very prevalent in the black community. How is it that a Japanese guy made something and the black community likes it. Japan and American cultures are very different. There was no diversity in the writers room, yet it spoke to them. Why?
The only version of diversity that should be portrayed is diversity of thought and VERY few movies and shows can do that now. The best two examples I can give because I am a nerd are captain America civil war and an episode in the first season of punisher. Having healthy discussions about political topics while respecting and understanding both points of view. Stories should be unifying and they once were. We should write a story that allows for diverse perspectives on both sides to respectfully say what they want to say. However media only cares about diversity of skin color, gender, who you like. And it’s only to attract an audience. Look at Star Wars and John boyega, it’s tokenism at it finest. People just love a good character whose ideals appeal to them. So I ask you. What type of diversity do you champion? Because one I agree with and the other I don’t agree with
Let's face it... The woke-laden, message-peddling, third rate quality of shows such as RoP and any recent Marvel effort have made a lot of CZcams commentators quite famous. Frankly, long may those CZcamsrs (including this channel) speak out against Disney and Amazon's ruination of modern cinema. 👍👍👍👍
I don't watch the shows, but I have a lot o fun watching the youtubers, Echo is one of my favourites. I reached a point where I hope for more bad shows so I can laugh from the critics. I am looking forward to The Acolyte for this very reason.
@@octaviovaladaoferreirinhad2689100%. He rarely uploads but Mauler’s MCU critiques are unironically better than the movies.
Raising a glass of water to that toast!
@@phoster3322yes they are and even his A political self will call a spade a spade he will never refuse to crtisize something because it would be contravertial I like knowing I can trust that my film critic will have balls and tell me the truth and not pad his opinion with caveats and "I'm not like those other critics" etc. Authenticity is important.
So Say We All!!! 🍺🍺🍺
HFM's actions make some kind of sense when you realize he's cultivated the same fanbase that tore Lindsay Ellis apart for using the "racist dogwhistle" words "if you squint" when criticizing Raya and the Last Dragon. He's been pretty apolitical through his career, but you could tell he was left-leaning. Turns out his audience wasn't all leftists.
Well, Ellis brought it on herself by associating herself with those degenerate lunatics.
Sucks too. I used to like his channel a good bit but started falling off until this happened. Unsubbed then. I can watch youtubers I disagree with, but when they start getting dishonest and pandery I bounce.
I think I'm still subscribed I'll fix that. I could tell he had no spine when he actively avoided any strong opinions that had political implications there's a difference between avoiding politics out of fear and simple focusing on A political elements we all knew Shadiversity's Values long befire he took a hard stance about films cause he never tried to hide it he just focused on what unified us as fans. For me if you gag yourself and insist on not looking up because you don't want answer the question is the sky blue or not then you are probably a sell out waiting to happen you stand for nothing and will fall for everything.
It's really sad how many creators are terrified of their own audience.
I vaguely know that Lindsay Ellis is a big shot youtube critic. What happened to her?
The problem is that Hello Future Me is a liberal with a progressive Tumblr lite Booktube audience, so whenever he has to criticize something he doesn’t like, he needs to sacrifice someone slightly to his right under the bus of progress.
the problem is he's so far left any one right of him would need to be shipped off to the gulag for "wrong think". People like TLP or JSG are probably as left as you can be and still be considered reasonable and yet he lumped them in together all the same. HFM's a clown and he went mask off with his video. If he wants to lob shots at these people i dont know, perhaps GO ON any one of their myriad of Podcasts and try having a candid discussion about it and try showing them the faults you find in their logic and critique? But no HFM couldnt find his balls for that, probably in his wife's boyfriend's backpack.
Same exact problem Lindsay Ellis had.
I saw HFM's original video, and then Random Film Talk's response, and yeah it was really bad. Just overall bad faith, innacurate, and poorly done.
I wouldn't say it was done in bad faith. HFM took down the whole wokebros portion of the video after talking with Platoon about some stuff in private, so he must care.
He only cares about his image. He didn't put out an apology or a retraction. He quietly removed the part, giving a "mental issues" reason in a reply buried deep in the comments section of the video.
HE doesn't care that he was wrong. He cares that he got called out.
@dragonmaster1360 For offering criticism of people who are genuinely toxic? W for him then and I hope he continues.
@@earendilthemariner4691criticism based on shitty logic and denial? L for him i hope he fails
@@earendilthemariner4691 What does toxic mean?
Speaking as a liberal, if a critic gives a negative review of a show/movie, but they back up that opinion with many examples, from writing, editing, casting, acting, costume and set design, production issues, finance woes, and comparisons to other related works in the series or genre...
...and the only thing the positive reviewer can say about it is, "It's FUN! If you don't like it, YOU have the problem!..."
...well, I'm much more inclined to believe the negative review.
Kinda getting sick being told I’m the problem they are pumping out trash.
@guyvizard549 Based!
What they hate the most about the youtube critics is that they were right all along, and Hello Future Me's ego took a massive hit.
Echo, compared to most left-of-center types, you are practically a cigar-chomping war general.
Fidel Castro
"Left-of-center"
Lol
@@MagcargoMan He constantly describes himself as liberal. Not sure where you've been.
@@christopherkelley1664 I've been on his Wicked video which was just a slew of the very sort of right-wing "wokebro" buzzword-filled rambling this guy was talking about.
@@MagcargoMan His Gina Carano video is the one that his him sounding the most liberal out of any of his content. But he is kind of a changeling, and I can't pin him down exactly. He may be one of those people who are effectively no longer on the political left but have a sort of sentimental attachment to the title and the coded affectations. The academic Peter Boghossian is the same way.
Wokism and misandry has destroyed the entertainment industry.
Look, if you're being called a phobe of some tenuous description, or far/hard right by the likes of Hello Future Me, chances are you're just normal and decent.
By this point, I'd be insulted if I were not called an istophobe of some description every now and then.
Hello Future Me's criticism is even worse once you realise some on his list like for example: Just some guy and Random Film Talk are not even in the same sphere as the others. Just some Guy is left wing and Random Film Talk's reviews never have his politics in them, He can't even get his targets right.
JSG used to be able to talk with people like Gary, before his brain fell out of his head over a certain Florida bill.
@@tannhausergate7162 A bill he never bothered to read.
A lot of the trouble with much "woke" media can, I believe, be summarized thus:
1. "Diversity" is seen as a cardinal virtue; once a character is observed to be diverse, writers don't feel a need for them to display other conventional virtues like loyalty, the ability to intelligently grapple with problems, or genuine courage. And giving such a character _flaws_ is anathema. Despite a lack of those qualities that would either allow them to overcome challenges or plausibly draw other characters who might help them to do so, it is unlikely they will face a long struggle with most of their problems.
2. The writers believe the views and values they champion are so universal, and anyone not whole-heartedly sharing them so vile, that not only do they not have to make a case for them, but are actively insulted by the idea that they _should_ have to make such a case. The in-media surrogates who champion those views are the heroes, by default; their opposers, the villains, also by default. There will never be anything like a spirited debate, or even a credible case for why the "heroic" values shall naturally cause them to win the day.
Notably, these points do not dismiss the very idea of featuring "diverse" characters, or even supposedly "woke" ideology. They merely demand that they not be used to excuse bad work, particularly on the writing front, nor used as a substitute for _good_ work. Believing that your audience should be required to applaud you is not the same as earning their applause.
I agree until the end there you can't really have woke movies that are good with preexisting works woke can be traced back to intersectionality and further traced back to critical theory which is all about awakening the working class to the communist struggle it believes culture must be changed and exist to serve that goal. Therefore it's incompatible with authenticity the plot and characters are a means to an end they are not the point merely a vehicle of the message. Woke producing bad writing isn't a flaw it's a feature based on a reductive world view that sees all things only through the lense of power dynamics any element that conflicts with that narrative they will reject and then we get plot contrivance and characters acting like wooden caricatures of themselves. it's why Falcon's personality changed into oppressed black man in his own show why he can't pay to fix his parents boat because black people can't get loans in a racist american banking system despite the fact that makes no sense since he's a internationally famous superhero with advanced expensive technology technically a celebrity and a government contract worker that earns nearly a quarter million dollors a year "I know because I checked." They never even noticed this blatant plot contrivance because they dehumanized Falcon the character and made him a self insert for their reductive beliefs about the black experience in america he isn't a character he's a plot device! Meanwhile Baron Zemo was excellent because since he's a white male in a context where he doesn't have to be imasculated by a female lead he's allowed to be his intellegent charasmatic and most importantly individual self he doesn't exist to represent anyone.
I get the impression that Galadriel is meant to be a cautionary tale. The one thing we know is that Frodo has to save the day down the line, and Galadriel has altered her nature. The problem is that the writing is so incompetent that the audience doesn't have any trust. Galadriel swings from hate filled maniac to a saintly knight between episodes. The initial episode conveys part of the problem. She's a bad leader, who has lost the confidence of people who clearly aren't cowards (if they followed her long after it became clear she had issues). But then she cuts down a giant monster in a way that screams "girlboss". If wokeism tends to be making the diverse characters infallible, then this might be something slightly different. Some of the characters fail. Their actions contribute to making things worse. Tensions and greed allow characters to become corrupt.
The female dwarf gives off a lady macbeth vibe in the posters. Again, if she a negative influence on her husband (whose primary trait otherwise is loyalty to his friend), then it isn't the standard "women can only do wrong as a function of male sway". If memory serves, the old king (male) didn't want to dig deep. If unlocking the balrog is a consequence, then the old white male king was probably right.
Basically, wokism aims for representation, but has turned into totalitarianism.
When he unironically said the Netflix 'She-Ra' series was 'good', I dropped him completely.
His opinion has since become utterly worthless to me
yea, bad takes like that can really sour you.
I still watch him for his world building and writing videos.
But his opinions on what is good, I ignore completely.
@@And-ur6ol I rarely watch him now, I have to question the authenticity of his advice with every video, even the old one's.
@TorridPrime217 Yeah, that show was absolutely terrible.
@@presleybaldwin3756 I think "common sense" can be applied to his world building and writing advice.
Does the points he brings up make sense? And is it technically based?
@@And-ur6ol Yeah, that's true. It gets pretty tedious though, a lot of information sources are already compromised for one reason or another. Social Justice just makes it all the more difficult to sort through.
I don't care if HFM disagrees with other people's analyses or chooses to ignore what others may consider criticism-worthy aspects of recently made media.
I do care when he conjures up a tent of "bad actors" so large that it includes political pundits and movie critics, self proclaimed religious conservatives and not-at-all-straight liberal atheists, pop-culture generalists and those creating autistically in-depth critiques, and then uses bits of sentences and video titles(!) from a random handful in his imaginary grab-bag to construct a single hive mind with a single purpose he claims applies to them all.
That he stuck his incoherent, disingenuous diatribe inside a review, while accusing his targets of hiding their messaging in their reviews, is just a cherry on top of his lack of self awareness cake.
The tl;dr version: When you devolve into insults without providing a reasoned argument that can be discussed, you have no argument. For further discussion of this point, I refer anyone interested to watch Monty Python's "The Argument Clinic."
In this day and are, calling someone racist, sexist or something-phobic is the equivalent of saying "Oh, yeah? Well, you stink of poo!"
So basically what your favourite pundits like Endymion resort to?
If the Galadriel from this shit-show was a male character, everyone on the far-left, from Tumblr/Twitter-addicts to journalists, would be accusing him of toxic masculinity. But because she's a woman, it's suddenly okay. I hate that double standard.
The forced-diversity and forced-representation wasn't even needed. Instead of changing the skin-tones of the Numenereans, dwarves, and elves for no reason, they could have included the Easterlings (Harad, Rhûn) and expanded a bit upon their culture. Then they would have non-European characters naturally integrated into the story without any backlash or broken suspension of disbelief. By turning every backwater village, city, and town of Middle-earth into this multicultural society it wasn't in the books, it makes everything look exactly the same and they all lose what makes them unique from each other. Whether it's the backgrounds or the clothes people wear, the ethnic-diversity, the ugly armor, the lighting and color schemes of the environments, etc. they all lose their individuality.
Meanwhile, in the LotR trilogy, you were able to instantly tell where every character was by the lighting, background designs, the music, the clothes, etc, regardless of all the characters being played by actors and actresses of white-European descent. Same with Game of Thrones. All the characters were played by diverse groups of people of various ancestries, yet they gave their characters all senses of belonging in their own sides of Westeros. You could instantly tell who was from where by clothing, ethnicity, voice, and you could instantly tell which part of the world any character was in by setting, lighting, clothes, music, armor, etc. So when they all came together to fight a threat bigger than them, the armies of the undead, none of them felt like they were included for the sole sake of diversity.
Hell, these same groups of Twitter-addicts that support DEI "representation" (from Wheel of Time to The Witcher, to The Witcher: Blood Origins, to this pile of orc garbage) are currently questioning why Shogun, a series set in feudal Japan during the 1600s, doesn't have any black people. I wish I was lying. xD
Well these are probably American city folk where they are accustomed to seeing every person that could travel around the world, so quite the thing is for them they have such a small world though they would see people from across the world.
Bad writers, who couldn’t care less about the source material and probably want to ruin its name because they don’t agree with it, and they probably just aren’t cut out for these types of settings or just need more experience (or just a different career entirely)
Also I wouldn’t personally want the possibilities of what could be added to the LOTR be mediocre and tainted when someone else tries to come up with something better and have what came previously be not what should be, I would want the slate to be clean and greatness be placed upon there.
Also I heard about a black (maybe) slave who washed up on Japan and became a samurai that could be an interesting tale
Question: Did the death of creativity engender identity politics or did identity politics kill creativity? I suspect the later.
@Nicksonian
I think it's a bit of both... A decline, not the death, just a decline, in creativity fostered the emergence of divisive identity politics. The emergence of identity politics lead to an assassination of what creativity was left as the "regime" pushed for it.
I can confirm it was deliberately the latter.
"Each film or series with a creative team of three or more people in above-the-line roles (Directors, Writers, Producers) should ideally include a minimum 30% women and 30% members of an underrepresented racial/ethnic group. This aspirational goal will increase to 50% by 2024.
-Casting actors whose identity (gender, gender identity, nationality, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, disability) aligns with the character they will be playing.
-Aiming to include one character from each of the following categories in speaking roles, with minimum 50% of these to be women: LGBTQIA+, person with a disability, and three regionally -underrepresented race/ethnic/cultural groups. A single character can fulfill one or more of these identities.
-Seeking at least three bids from vendors or suppliers on productions, one of which must be from a woman-owned business and one from a minority-owned business.
Pay equity across casting, behind the camera staff and crew, and for vendors and suppliers."
Yep, this is Amazon's Diversity, Equity, Inclusion playbook, I can't even imagine a Tolkien skilled writer succeeding at a good story with that kind of autocratic control.
Positive feedback loops. Once you have one of the problems, the other happily comes on board, which then reinforces the original problem and it spirals out of control soon afterwards.
I feel like this was a bait and switch attempt to "reach across the aisle"
"Guys, I get it, the Rings of Power sucked, but you can't let those people over there be in the right! They have a perceived moral deficiency according to my 'current year' sensibilities and if it's ever seen they're right about anything, I could be lumped in with them! Nevermind how late to the party I am! Validate my opinions and just trust me bro!"
I'm glad people like this are more self confident about their positions, it makes them easier to ignore when they try to decry anything for moral/ethical reasons.
I've been a fan of his for a long time, he actually been in agreement with us about what shows sucked but he never addressed the progressive politics side except in rare offhand comments that ended up being foreshadowing for this video. He even expressed worry over the Avatar adaptation and didn't want them taking Sokka's early sexist out for progressive reasons.
I think he had the opposite problem. He was too close to us people "across the aisle" and was afraid of or already being accused of being one of us so decided to officially pick a side and jump to the far left because that's what the majority of his audience are based on the comments I had to wade through on that video.
He seemed pretty comfortable in the center-left like a lot of us used to be, but the ideological parasites keep forcing everyone to pick a side, keep pushing people to be an extreme or be seen as the other extreme, and he got pushed to where the power in media currently is, the left.
I am having too much fun, listening to Nerdrotic,Critical Drinking, It's A Gundam as well as numerous other CZcamsrs ( including Echo here ) , have a field day exposing the moral toilet that is current day Hollywood. I don't really care what others think about what they say. These CZcamsrs ENTERTAIN ME. Gee. what a novel concept.
My biggest issue with Hello Future Me is how he released a video that is almost 2 years late in the party, but still has the audacity to hate on other CZcamsrs who actually SAID THE SAME THING about ROP.
He says he doesn't like these CZcamsrs because they are using ROP as an example of the woke agenda that they don't like. And yet here he is, also using Ring of power to push his own beliefs.
It's like he only used ROP as a an excuse to get his real message across - how he hates other CZcamsrs who have a different political belief than him. What a hypocrite and a lowlife.
Also if he really cares so much about these other creators insidiously manipulating young men, why didn't he make a video at the time? From his point of view he could've saved all those young men falling down the alt right pipeline but it's far too late now. Very odd timing.
What both Echo and Hello Future Me, who aren't American, seem to forget are the insults directed - right from the start, by the producers of the show - at the Tolkien fans. Suddenly, they were "fascist-adjacent," and such talk has become exceedingly inflammatory in America.
"I'm a consumer paying for entertainment, and this is shit, so I'll watch something else." Nailed it
I will never understand how people can put themselves through these kinds of mental gymnastics. "This thing 100% forged in my ideology is horrible, but everyone complaining about it is actually the real problem and my ideology can never do wrong."
Humans are very tribalistic. Look at primate behavior. It doesn't do to dwell on the crimes of your primate troupe. The other tribe they are the bad.
HFM has a handle on writing techniques, no doubt - but on this topic he is 100% wrong. Content does not need to be everything to everyone and any attempt to do so just waters down the story itself and ruins the narrative. An all white cast in a Viking period piece, or an all black cast in a film like Black Panther, does not mean they are exclusionary or racist - they're just true to the story and the world in which it takes place. Hollywood's version of diversity and inclusion is to "exclude" mostly male white characters, and straight heterosexual romances. That's not opinion, it's fact with data and numerous examples from the past 5 years to back it up. Like the witch-hunts or inquisitions of the past, DEI's true motive is a spiteful self-serving attempt to power grab and control. Let's hope this era ends sooner than later and entertainment returns to being - ENTERTAINING.
"I cant believe youre not siding with the establishment viewpoint after the establishment has spent decades telling you that youre bad and should feel bad!"
So glad you brought this up, i was watching that review on and off for the last few days but the level of inconsistency and lack of any willingness to acknowledge the issues that lead to the problems with the script that he does address made it very hard to finish, and i still haven’t
It really didn't sit right with me the way he offers so much credit to payne and mckay for things they very obviously did not intend to do
What people like HFM fail to understand is that the creators of the show are looking at “woke” 1st, so the movie/show becomes subordinate to the woke message. The way the actors look, the writers and directors that are hired all have this one purpose from corporate and the chance that what gets spit out is crap, is extremely high. It would be like me cooking a dinner but hellbent on using no salt or spices and then my dinner guests being shocked when what they eat is bland, inedible crap. They can point to my cutting and stirring skills. They can point to the need for fresher ingredients. But then they get pissed at the one guest who says, just put some f’ing salt and spices in there.
I used to think like Hello Futre Me does. I thought the problem was just bad writing and not the politics of Wokeness. But the problem is when you ignore that elephant in the room, things don't make much sense like: If these shows aren't being watched, why won't the showrunners listen to fans and fix the problem? Why does it seem like the worst people to write these adaptations are the only ones getting hired to do them? Why do these shows keep putting in uncomfortable, racist dialogue when it's really hypocritical? Why are some tv shows not being made anymore when they are still beloved by audiences? Why are people saying DEI is making these companies money when it's actually doing the opposite? Why are there more race-swaps than ever before happening in tv and video games?
Once you go down the rabbit hole and discover things like the WGA "diversity" survey, the Geena Davis Institute's diversity spellchecker, the sensitivity readers in the publishing industry, the abuse of power and blackmail happening in these industries, the bot accounts on Twitter attacking creators and actors, the politically motivated consultation companies, and all the other craziness, you can't chalk it all up to just bad writing anymore. It's a systemic issue now.
In fact, in this discussion, you really can't separate the two anymore, because all those things you list in the 2nd paragraph (Sensitivity Censorship, DEI Consultants, Diversity Checkboxes) are in fact at the root of the bad writing. They are (partly) the cause.
It's why every backwater village, town and space-station looks equally diverse, and thus the same, and you don't know where you are, until you see a cow, a car or a shuttle pass by.
It's why, even though the lesson in the original was "you need to work together", the current version can't have the woman being saved and so she saves herself and thus the theme loses cohesion and the story is weakened.
It's why the villains can't be actual bad guys if they could be seen as representing a marginalized group, and thus the plot gets bent badly out of shape to prevent this.
And it's why everything becomes horrifically samey and predictable, because everything goes through the same woke filters and checkboxes.
Oh, and I still consider myself left (European left, not American left : P). But I refuse to be radical (-ized).
It sounds like HelloFresh or whomever, while having a literary and progressive background, may not understand the concept of The Fandom.
Fandoms existed well before the post-2016 progressive culture wars. The Fandom of an IP is literally a group of people who unite in their love of an IP.
It's always been a group of people who are devoted to the franchise, regardless of politics or identity. The kind of intensity and critique and protection of the lore has existed in these spaces for decades.
It just so happens that he's committing some fallacy of projecting progressive -ist -isms on the fandom based on the current cultural zeitgeist parameters.
A fandom is going to be highly passionate in its debates and defend outside influences attempting to infiltrate or vandalize an IP. This is the nature of the fandom.
The fact is that now these character or political traits are being overlaid on them because of the discourse politically.
He doesn't understand the culture, at all. The temperament that makes a person a fan to the level of fandom transcends identity politics groups.
With Rings of Power in particular, you could sense the producers of the show had no respect whatsoever for Tolkien's vision or ideas.
That's what makes these skin suit shows so horrible. These activists take something that people love and hollow it out and wear it like a skin suit and then call you a bigot for noticing that it is poor fan fiction at best and more like hateful, spiteful deconstruction.
They set out to depict modern Las Angeles on screen and act shocked when people are rightly pointing out that isn't what Tolkien wrote.
HFM video spends 4 hours saying that the show is rubbish while avoiding some of the fundamental reasons why it's rubbish. He then goes out of his way to slag off a group of people who have no beef with him and are willing to address the issues the show has, which he is willfully not acknowledging. It's a weird move for a guy with over a million subscribers.
Unsubbed from hello future me over that one.
Like most people infected with woke I've been seeing the rot for a while, ever since he discussed Azula and Zuko from Avatar's "abusive childhoods", and "trauma!"
It's sad, since yes, he's had some good analyses in the past, but so it goes.
Once the woke rot steps in and people start on the accusing others of being istaphobes train, there's no coming back.
Are there real sexists and racists out there? Undoubtedly, but pointing out misandry does not make one a misogynist, just as pointing out anti-white racism does not make one racist against black people.
This is the truth which the wokesters want to make people forget, prejudice is prejudice in whatever direction, and bad writing fuelled by prejudice is still bad whoever it's prejudiced against.
Not to mention the moral bankruptcy, and inherent nihilistic greyness implicit to all woke writings, Rings of power most definitely included, since fundamentally if you set out in the belief that there is no good or evil, but only societal power, and your only virtue in a story is redistributing that power to those whom you believe deserve it, you cannot make a story which will resonate with most normal, decent human beings!
Hello Future Me is basically just looking at the symptoms (bad writing, miscasting, bad acting), while denying the underlying cause (feminism, wokeness, etc).
I'd call it a boogeyman cause, rather than actual. Mainly cause it is easy for corpos to blame on it their own failings, from practical point of view
@@axelwust9376 ... The social engineering is obvious... and is absolutely the reason why all these modern shows/movies/etc are absolute trash
I saw about 20 minutes of one episode when my kids were watching Rings of Power. The dialogue was so banal and cringey that I had to leave the room.
I was hoping it would be good because I love LOTR.
Echo is SPOT ON here.
The woke folk can bear no criticism. Theirs is a world devoid of introspection and its resulting humility.
The big problem with these female characters that act like men is that the writers treat these "toxic" characteristics as if they are empowering and good when given to a female. Prime example is to compare the MCU Tony Stark to Captain Marvel. Both are given many of the same characteristics but only in Tony is it made clear that these traits must be reformed. Part of Tony's character arc, and part of the experience of masculinity generally, is learning to reform genuinely toxic characteristics such as greed, womanizing, cockiness, etc.
A trojan horse? Lol we anti wokeism are very vocal about it . Trojan horse he says... 😂No no no mate, the bad writing is a byproduct of DEI and activism over professionalism.
Lgbt and feminism are different chapters of the same cult, and less and less people are hiding how disgusted and tired they are of this new inquisition.
"Trojan horse".. 😂😂😂
The funniest thing is that he lumps a channel named "The Woke Critic" in with everyone else and claims that they're secretly political. I don't know what else you'd expect from someone with "woke" literally in their name! 😆
"Each film or series with a creative team of three or more people in above-the-line roles (Directors, Writers, Producers) should ideally include a minimum 30% women and 30% members of an underrepresented racial/ethnic group. This aspirational goal will increase to 50% by 2024.
-Casting actors whose identity (gender, gender identity, nationality, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, disability) aligns with the character they will be playing.
-Aiming to include one character from each of the following categories in speaking roles, with minimum 50% of these to be women: LGBTQIA+, person with a disability, and three regionally -underrepresented race/ethnic/cultural groups. A single character can fulfill one or more of these identities.
-Seeking at least three bids from vendors or suppliers on productions, one of which must be from a woman-owned business and one from a minority-owned business.
Pay equity across casting, behind the camera staff and crew, and for vendors and suppliers."
This is apparently Amazon's DEI playbook for every show. They call it that!
Yep, this is is DEI system of control. Killer of creativity, the true diversity of ideas.
Wokeness causes bad writing. This idea that you can have complex and intelligent storytelling with wokeness is irrational.
spiderverse cought cought.
You can, but it's much harder than just writing normally. That's why the overwhelming majority is terrible, but a few are great like Arcane and Spiderverse.
Shows can be woke and good; it happens all the time. The issue is that wokeness will take a show that no one likes and turn it into a show that has a divisive, self-serious, hostile bend to it that makes it hateful to any members of the audience who prefer message free media. It’s even worse in RoP because it is an existing property that was highly by a beloved historic figure who would be highly offended by the use of his world as a progressive political statement
@@christaylor7079 I wouldn't say it happens all the time, if it did, there wouldn't be a problem. Yes, they can be good, but it's very rare that they are. It's much more difficult to write well when you're bound by ideological constraints, not to mention writers aren't hired based purely on merit, but on adherence to ideology. That is not an environment conducive to good story telling.
There are very very rare instances of things that are woke but also objectively well written
BG3 has alot of woke, gay shit in it, but most of writing is great. But the thing is, it's great because the woke elements exist on the side and don't infest most of the actual characters. Shadowheart isn't stopping me to lecture about the patriarchy or how bad men are nor is there an obvious Donald Trump allegory.
"The least straight person to visit Italy since Baron Corvo." I'll admit, I guffawed!
Hello Future Me is a walking, talking, YouTubing example of Dunning Kruger.
It's weird that multiple movie channels are simultaneously doing hit pieces on FNT crowd right after Nerdrotic hits the 1m subs cap. This feels like a coordinated thing.
Yeah I hate all of them they are all hypocrites
Cap?
It is a bit strange
@@Selrisitai Friday Night Tights
It should also be factored in that New Zealand notoriously always lags behind on social/cultural/political movements. Takes a while for the bad ideas of the rest of the world to make it to NZ and take root. I was just there recently, and unfortunately woke is really only in its bloom phase there, rather than the wilted and rotting weed it has become elsewhere.
HFM is months if not years behind, so it isn't surprising that his take is a stale rehash of arguments made by more international wokesters over a year ago. It could seem surprising that even in the internet age someone could remain so far behind the curve that they think -ist and -phobe claims are worth making, but one must appreciate that for HFM, these are actually new concepts.
He truly doesn't understand just how naïve and damaging such notions are because NZ is only just beginning to grapple with the damage they cause.
Oh no my channel is growing irrelevant and stale. Time to be a contrarian and throw some stones from my glass house out of jealousy and spite, so i can squeeze as much viewership and drama out of the situation that follows from it.
I've seen this cycle happen again and again over the years and it's nothing new.
Outstanding criticism made here however.
Another big distinction is that many of the CZcamsrs who attacked do the vast majority of their time behind camera in a live-stream format, where things are said off the cuff, ideas are explored, bad takes are made and analyzed, etc. It's super easy to find some snippet that sounds bad out of context from hundreds of hours of unscripted video. HFM, on the other hand, does primarily scripted, fairly polished, rehearsed, and edited videos. There's nothing wrong with that, but it felt like he was trying to hold live stream content to the same standard.
"Dude, when the mask comes off, it doesn't actually count. Real unscripted thoughts and opinions aren't actually real."
Peak damage control.
I was, and perhaps still am a “progressive.” Yet I find myself in line with the perceptive analyses of Echo Chamberlain, Critical Drinker, and Call Me Chato. I was a traditional journalist by trade who endeavored to keep a check on my personal bias and prejudice. Yet today, I find myself appalled that in the name of inclusivity, bias and prejudice now runs rampant. We are told that anxiety now runs rampant throughout society. Maybe that’s because women are told they need to be masculine bosses and men must be prissy losers. We’re told that men who want to be women deserve more rights than real women. I watch these videos critiquing popular culture so I don’t have to watch the actual trash they’re examining.
Jordan Peterson started out with valid ideas but has devolved into a nitwit.
I feel like a fool. I commented on Tim's (Hello Future Me) ROP video praising it (and I still think the first part actually discussing the show's problems is pretty good as well), specifically the second half "wokebros" part which the more that I think back on it now the more I realized I turned my brain off and ignored my intuition that he was being quite disingenuous to many of the creators mentioned (And in the case of Random Film Talk had no right to be in it at all but was there for some reason. But at the very least in the replies to my comment he did recognize it was a mistake to include him there) with what they do and say. I think it was because he's a creator I actually quite like and have been subscribed long before he's had the success he does now so I was very bias with the whole thing. I just feel so damn bad about it because of course you shouldn't agree with creators you like 100% but at the same time they can tend to make good points more often than not and that's what most of the creators mentioned in it actually do and I feel as though I betrayed them for a moment by liking that part of the video and forgetting the frankly undeniable fact at this point that identity politics is a problem in entertainment . In any case I do hope others like The Little Platoon and Just Some Guy talk about this as well. I still like Hello Future Me but I am disappointed that he chose to do some of the things he ironically criticized the creators he's talking about for in that part of the video. This is a very fair take on it!
Hello future me always gave off a vibe of spineless toxic positivity he's like a Pick Me for progressivism utterly benign in all opinion yet percieves himself as nuanced and caring unless of course he wants to make reductive insults and say "I'm not like other girls" about youtubers with more conviction than him. So in the spirit of hating when people refuse to have definitive contraversial opinions in order to fit in I'm gonna say this here and now, anyone who thinks bad writing in the major franchises of the last decade has nothing to do with progressive ideology is an idiot full stop. I guarantee Hello future me wouldn't last an hour with little platoon of Mauler in a debate about wether the politics had anything to do with lack of quality control in the last few years and I picked those 2 because they are the least biased and heavily focus on writting. The essense of the woke problem can be distilled down to and ends justify the means mindset they believe that what they are doing is a moral crusade therefore critisism is akin heresy. I've used this example before in Wandavision fans asked during the final episode why doctor strange didn't stop wanda and In a statement kevin fiege said " we didn't want a man in a position of power over a woman" so explicitly they chose to create a plot contrivance because their Idealogical morals came first that is an irifutable fact. That very mentality can be found in every majory studios writing staff in Hollywood "it's okay that rey is a mary sue because it empowers women and if you care more about the plot than the message you are a bad person." The minute they elevated any ideological priority over the story they lost all credibility. Tolkien was great because he understood plot came before message hence why he found Allegory distasteful. The message must serve the plot not the other way around and that is why people hate woke we want plot, character, and entertainment to be the first consideration for every project it's why Andor with it's lesbian characters was so great yet the sequel trilogy is so bad. Kathleen keneddy wanted star wars with girls she didn't want to explore luke unifying the force in the wake of the end of the sith, she didn't want to explore how the galaxy was reconstructed and what new threats would emerge oh no she wanted lightsabers and tits that's it.
Quite a polite but solid rebuttal Echo. I also admire you for being honest about the Kiwi's unrequited and secret love. Now if we Aussies can only be more honest about ours. 👍
Spiders?
@@nicklab1927 You'd have to ask a Kiwi what they think Australians dirty habits are. Maybe something involving vegemite and Quokkas? I don't know 😄
We understand, koalas are cute and cuddly. Just don't get them wet.
@@dragons_advocate Or feed them after midnight!
What I love about the "Fellowship" is they are rabid Tolkien fans and explain their love honestly and humorously. The missing element from the outraged pear clutchers is fun. A masterwork the caliber of Lord of the Rings deserves honor, not neo-marxist social engineering extrusions. Enjoyed this video echo, clear and well written.
Hail!
I've seen some of his videos, and, based on what was said here I'll say: He has the opinions he's SUPPOSED to have
So, a very good boy indeed
Random Film Talk shouldn't have been on that list if this was "Hello Future Me"'s problem with those critics. Goes to show he didn't watch the videos and jumped to a conclusion.
RFT's series was a deep dive into the writing, and from what I recall after watching his series I believe he left out political and ideological topics all together. He certainly obliterated the show for it's bad quality, which was all deserved.
Exactly!
@0That_Guy0
Exactly this. It proves how two-faced HFM is when he didn't even watch RFT's videos about the subject. Not once did any outside politics or anything get in, to my knowledge (it's 14 hours, I may have missed some, lol). It was exclusively about the writing, world-building, and story telling within the show, and how terrible it is. He even went out of his way to make sure we KNEW he was NOT comparing it to the source. It was a critique of the show and the show alone.
If HFM has watched even the first video, he'd know that. But he didn't, showing how malicious his inclusion of RFT was.
and this is why korean, japanese, and chinese drama are dominating. i already watch 3 chinese fantasy drama that are far superior to rings of powers, that even has female overpowered characters. and they're not even mary sues.
The real problem is too many writers in what they call the writers room. Good scripts do not get written by committees.
You could argue this is a direct result of "wokeness". These days all shows must have diverse main characters, and it's frowned on for white men to write non-white-men characters (maybe the reverse is true too, not sure), so committee is the only solution.
So I think we need to make something very clear to people who don't fully understand what we mean when we say woke. It has nothing to do with an actual strong female character. As many of my favourite all time characters are female but the difference is that the ones I love had to suffer or work super hard to achieve her goals. They get knocked around the place, their personalities are often flawed, they form relationships with those around them and they don't just throw insults at other characters (Unless it's part of their personality and well established why she does that).
The first symptom of a girl boss that we saw as part of the terrible ideology is that everything must be handed to their "strong" woman because the writer can not bear to see their character have a single flaw because for some stupid reason this would be bad for women. The other problem than comes to prop up their strong female character. The writers have to go out of their way to undermine other characters, making them weaker, outright stupid or just a blatant stereotype that no man would ever condone. Like they always put in a scene of a man trying to be "harass" a woman. Now I put harass in quotes is because often it's just a bar scene with a man trying to talk to them. That's it. Now I don't know about you but these writers do know that talking in a bar with strangers is a normal thing right? All you have to do to make someone go away is ask and they'll often do so.
The next part is not none of us have a problem with LGBT people or those of different cultures, religions and so on. The problem I have is when a characters personality is just hyper focused on that one small part of them. Their sexual identity or whatever else becomes the characters entire point of existing. The character doesn't often exist for any other reason. They don't add to the story as a whole and so because they've done this so many times. It has led those of us sane enough to understand pattern recognition that whenever the first word out of any actors, directors or writers mouth is "first X to do this X thing" or "Diversity is super important". You just groan because you know the character or show is likely going to be worthless. They'll never explain why diversity is important because it isn't. You can have an amazing story about a bunch of animals or robots or aliens. We fall in love with characters that you can understand. I can't understand a character whose just sprouting random talking points that the writer has shoved down their throats.
As a Welshman, please include more sheep in your videos. New Zealand has some real lookers!
If a studio says that they are "re-writing" an original work or a historical event to make it far better for today's "generation" then that should send an alarm to everyone. This is not something that HFM could easily understand.
What a brutal takedown. The ahem, "heavy-drinking" CZcams review landscape was definitely enhanced when you came onto the scene. People like you who stretch to engage with those with differing ideologies to see what's really going on (rather than what narratives are being fed by one particular echo chamber or another) are, and I don't exaggerate here, what keeps society alive. Keep it up.
I find the most damning thing about the whole affair is how he silently pruned out that section of the video with not a word to be said on the subject.
one of the great thing about Open bar, FNT and Midnight's edge is that it's a genuine cross section of the English Speaking world
I love that Random Film talk got thrown in! He didn't mention anything political he like Hello future me did and episode by episode criticized bad writing and the terrible storylines that absolutely do not make sense
Putting RFT in was bizarre. At the the shade thrown towards Drinker, Nerdrotic and Co. could be taken somewhat seriously because they do talk about the BTS politics and its impact on the on-screen product, but RFT keeps it limited to the show/movie. It gave me an idea of what the guy's like.
@@AcidifiedMammoth yeah I totally agree! I was thinking when I first was watching the HFM video you may dislike Nerdrotic and the guys but they're not wrong
Really enjoy thoughtful and articulate conversations like this
It's only "bad writing" and "lack of talent" if you discount what the people who make these movies and shows say. They say that the point of their work is to tear down white straight Christian men. They say that ideology and politics is everything, in everything, and the most important thing. They say anything you put out in media either promotes or hurts their message, and that you should only create stuff that promotes it
Wait, HFM edited out the attack on the reviewers? I guess he got quite a bit of backlash off if it then, and folded rather than stand by his take.
That's just great I found your channel and also someone who thinks alike. This is a nice video with good points. You just make sense and you seem like a well balanced person. Subscribed ! Cheers from the other side of the planet !
Watch you and the rest of the good guys. Haven't even heard of hello future me. That's all you need to know.
This does bring up an important point. Does the modern cultural view want to show that femininity is superior to masculinity, or do they just want women who act like men? What's the point of creating a matriarchy if it's just going to do the same things that the patriarchy does?
I begin to think as they let it slip now and then that it's about revenge for past perceived misdeeds those advocating for it have never personally suffered. That's what happens when you have it good since you arrived on the planet. You start imagining grievances and all you have to go on is what you read about the past but you don't know what it was like so you make it up.
People are actively trying to replace history and reality with wishful thinking. If we continue down this part we will just end up repeating past mistakes
_Game of Thrones_ went to incredible lengths, probably rivalling Tolkien, with their world-building. Not only is (e.g.) The North racially homogeneous, but for all of the Starks and the commoners around Winterfell they even ensured consistency of regional accent: specifically Yorkshire, Sean Bean's native accent. Liam Cunningham - Ser Davos - did the entire show in a Geordie (Tyneside) accent, despite being Irish himself.
I feel they’re style just happens to resonate with people tired of all the political correctness infecting movie criticism.
As a writer I appreciate Hello Future Me's critiques of story telling mechanics of many movies, books, and shows. He does great break down of story telling concepts. What he also does is give no push back on anything being inserted from outside story telling that could possibly be corrupting the art.
Dudbros critics are so shallow that EFAP has probably 10-20 hours of streams talking about it
The problem is their failed acknowledgment of force diversity without thoughtfulness and intelligence and above else understanding. While at the same time seeing themselves as the pinnacle of all understanding and intelligence within their beliefs of social issues and the writing says otherwise.
I knew there was a reason I like this guy when he’s an open bar.
Funniest thing is, most of the critics he lambasted LOVED Arcane, a technically woke series. And Critical Drinker himself gave a fair but negative review of Lady Ballers.
Nah, he really softballed his criticism of it so he wouldn't be blacklisted from future interviews with Daily Wire pundits.
@@MagcargoMan When has Drinker ever buddy-buddied with the Daily Wire.
@@silverscorpio24 Now you're just being intellectually-dishonest. He's already done a video with Ben Shapiro. Look it up.
@@MagcargoMan He's also been on Piers Morgan. Look that up.
@@silverscorpio24 "When has he been buddy-buddy with The Daily Wire?"
"Okay, those three videos with Shapiro don't count!"
Convenient
Wow, I only just noticed how bad that forced-perspective shot with the faux-Hobbit giving Gandalf some food is, you can really tell they're about 3 foot off to the side from each other.
I never understood attacks at JP as if he's some kind of a radical. I don't follow him closely, but the only time i recall him getting even heated was during debate with Destiny and even then it was rather respectful and dissipated quiet quickly. Of all the panels with feminists and other opponents i've seen him with, he was consistently the only one who would refrain from personal attacks one way or another and who would actually listen to what other side is saying.
Lord of the Rings trilogy's Elrond was perfect. You saw he had the grace of an elf but he always had the gravitas of a manly leader. He didn't need a huge beard or mega muscles, he exuded experience and strength. Rings of Power's Elrond is just some soyboy.. what a let down.
As much as I LOVE the content that Hello Future Me has made, with non-stop helpful content for writing and making stories/characters, I couldn't believe he was simplifying that anyone (youtubers like Yellowflash etc.) talking bad about projects like 'Rings of Power' are just racists/sexist. Love Tom, but damn did some of his rants make me cringe.
How can you watch a massive whiner like Yellowflash and not find him cringe?
@MagcargoMan He's a HUGE whiner, but makes valid points sometimes. If a person can make me laugh, I can withstand them.
You forgot presenting evil as good, and good as evil. And heroes behaving like Satan.
What I also find very funny is how this kind of people always "speak for the A-Z community", because they know best. I am sure, a lot of people in this "communities" do not have an interest of some enlightened know it all speaking from them, and telling others how they think. I think this whole "ultra progressive ideology" will likely do more harm than good to the people they pretend fighting for - seems often more a tool for self-elevation. A good example is, that some of the CZcamsrs he is bashing are nonideological besides when it comes to movie and story quality, many of them are also making fair reviews, if a movie or series is actually good - no matter if it is "progressive". Good example, the Arcane Reviews.
But I am very sure he did not even bother to do his homework there. Otherwise, he would also have realized, that besides that some of the CZcamsrs are absolute LotR nerds, black, or very openly gay. Which makes this especially hilarious - yet so typical for the people in activist mode on a moral high ground.
PS: I also watched Random Film Talks response - someone who does an excellent job, and contrary to some others, I have no idea how he even made it on to this list - seems there was very little research.
I knew I wasn't the only one who noticed this dude's ridiculous take. He has 4 hours to explain why Rings of Power sucks and he spends over half of it attacking the Fellowship (the youtuber gang, not the LOTR fellowship)
That spineless guy also edited the video, surprisingly the "wokebros" section is not there anymore...
I watched that video, enjoyed it. Halfway through he started a rant and I assumed it would be just a ten minutes rant, but no... It got tiring, so I tried to skip forward, back to the review, there was nothing more on the subject. It was a bit clickbaity, cowardly and a bit of a highschool behaviour. He could have made two videos and put a proper title on it.
Its pretty revealing the fact whenever this show is mentioned its never for praise but for bad writing and political agenda
I say this as a tremendous long term fan of Hello Future Me:
...
Every word of your analysis is correct.
Darn, I really like Hello Future Me. It's so sad when someone I see as neutral enters the culture war on the enemy side lol.
Midwits gonna midwit. That is the best encapsulation of Hello Future Me's entire channel.
The core problem with woke 'critics' is not that they lie but that their lies are boring.