Rings of Power is a Disappointment, Here's Why | An Overdue Critique
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2024
- Watch Lindsey's amazing video on how they adapted Lord of the Rings (the good one) right now here! nebula.tv/videos/lindsayellis...
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Tim Hickson
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0:00 Intro
6:27 Lord of the Borings
22:50 Silmareally Bad Pacing
32:30 The Southlands Sucks
44:10 Dany Kinda Forgot
52:10 tHe sEa Is alWAys rIgHT
1:07:20 The Murder Hobbits
1:15:20 Theyre Takin Our Jerbs
1:19:50 Who has a better story?
1:25:43 Who Killed Rings of Mediocrity?
1:49:40 The Dark Horses
2:14:50 Was Rings a Success?
Music by Epidemic Sound: epidemicsound.com/creator
Stay nerdy!
Tim
TERRA NOVA GANG RISE UP JOIN THE DISCORD discord.gg/vvMBpZa6Xh but also check out Lindsey's video on how to adapt Lord of the Rings RIGHT nebula.tv/videos/lindsayellis-how-they-adapted-lord-of-the-rings?ref=hellofutureme
WOW!
I joined the discord the second I saw the link.
I usually don't really enjoy watching negative reviews, and I usually don't enjoy watching long reviews.
But this is an exception.
Edit: House of the Dragon review next, maybe?
Nope. Not just you. I really enjoyed Terra Nova. *shouts into the void,* *'season 2, where are you?'*
Thanks Tim, for striving to build a bigger table!
Rings of Power? Disappointment.
Tim's video? Best shit I've ever seen.
-B
I’ll always appreciate the recurring bond between two of my favorite CZcams channels
Did we all just mishear Tim calling Doctor Who poorly written.
@@mathwiz1007 My experience with CZcams is basically realizing that most of my favorite CZcamsrs know each other.
@@joryjones6808i adore Doctor Who with all my heart, but it is no stranger to poor writing. It doesnt mean i wont love it, but it is there. It also has some of the best writing ive ever had the pleasure of experiencing.
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe agreed on all accounts
"The sea is always right" was Amazon's painfully transparent attempt at trying to have their own "Winter is Coming."
This is honestly such a good way to boil down why Rings of Power failed so spectacularly. "Winter is coming" makes you feel something, it's ominous. "The sea is always right" just makes you go.....what? What does that mean? There's no emotion attached to it other than vague confusion.
@@aperson9847I love how elendil says the sea is always right, but his wife drowned, like the writers didn’t put two seconds of thought into this.
Compare this to "one does not simply walk into Mordor." Yes it's been memed to hell, but there WAS REASON for the line to be said. Here? It just doesn't make sense.
I don't know why, this line reminded of when Dom Toretto said: The street always wins 🤣🤣
“What is Dead May Never Die” too cuz the Ironborn are more of the seafaring boat folk of Planetos
“Rising crime rates in the Shire because of a lack of police infrastructure is also realistic, but that doesn’t mean the Brandybucks are forming a local militia to take out the Sackville-Bagginses” is the funniest quote I have ever heard in my life, thank you.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
That sounds like a good reality show: "The Dirty Hobbits"
In the books, the letter C is always pronounced like a K instead of an S. In Rings Of Power, it's pronounced however it feels like because the C is always right.
WOW 😂😂😂
This is too good🤣
I can't decide if I should tell you to get out, or to stay here and make more jokes. Genuinely torn
Lol
😂😂😂
"Why are there no *emotions* in this show, I specifically requested it?" - Jeff Bezos
Don’t disrespect Captain Holt like that
Hahaha 🤣 YESS!
Yass queen!
The only emotion they have in abundance is anger and it's just juvenile anger at that.
@@nont18411 I always call him Lex Luthor's evil twin. ^^
Sanderson's face saying "an 8 out of ten??" will never not be funny to me
Man carrying the comments section
Mr Memelord over here thinking he knows anything about BookTube.
/s
You're the absolute legend who never misses! The man who carried the thing! 😱
I know this guy!
Too true, everytime I hear the outrage in his voice when asking _"8 out of 10?!"_ I can't stop laughing 😂
The tragedy of Halbrand being Sauron is that he is the perfect setup to be a nazgul, perhaps even the witch-king. This man who becomes king over a southern kingdom with a chip on his shoulder who desires power, which would give a perfect reason for him to accept a ring of power. Then his proximity to the main characters would make his slow descent into becoming a ringwraith as he is slowly bent to sauron's will all the more tragic.
It would give us as the audience a really interesting perspective as he envies Elendil and Isildur and feels that the fledgling kingdoms of gondor are favored more by the elves than his. Etc etc
Could have been really interesting. Now the nazgul are probably just going to be dudes with hoods that show up randomly in season 2
It's this right here ^ why I spent a good deal of the first season gaslighting myself that it was going to work out. The whole time I was thinking "they're teasing some stupid twists but there are better ideas at play". But then episode 8 happened and I realised I was deceived 😅
I prayed that he ended up being the mouth of sauron, there's not a lot of lore behind him so there's all kinds of ways they could go with it
@@Henez89we were all of us deceived 😔
Trouble is the witchking of angmar is the lead nazgul,the other 8 are just lesser human kings who took the rings without a thought of deceit just greed,sauron was never a wraith nor did he get a ring of power,he didnt need one as he created the one...to rule the others,why would he need one of the 3 he gave the elves 3 to dwarves
Tolkien did use "Marvel-style" jokes in his own way. He never quite dipped into outright anachronism (especially not twenty-first century anachronism) but he did sometimes break the poetic gravity with a jab delivered in plain speech. For example, there is a scene where Saruman proclaims, "And here you will stay, Gandalf the Grey, and rest from journeys. For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman the Ring-maker, Saruman of Many Colours!" and displays his new shimmering robes. Gandalf, unimpressed, replies, "I liked white better."
Cinema Therapy did a great video on how Aragorn represents healthy masculinity. He's equally capable of being strong and being warm and considerate. In the scene where Boromir dies (spoilers) he goes straight from decapitating an orc to tenderly comforting his dying friend. As a King, he's brave enough to lead the charge into battle and humble enough to bow to the hobbits. Dude sings a sonnet at his own wedding to an elf princess. He's a great example to young boys that "being a man" can mean a lot of different things, and crucially that it doesn't mean putting others down.
Even Legolas learns what humanity and "being a man" is. He's an elf; they're just kinda naturally better than humans in most ways. But he becomes friends with a dwarf, with Hobbits, with men. And he's still badass just like Aragorn. They aren't emasculated by showing their humanity. In fact by showing humanity they're stronger for it.
Aragorn doesn't actually bow to the hobbits (and definitely there is no mass wave of bowing before them), that's more a movie thing. He does get down a knee in the camp at the Field of Cormallen after sitting them (Frodo and Sam) on his throne, but that was likely more about getting to their eye level given how it's presented. He also praised them (shouting, "Praise them with great praise!") for all they-again, Frodo and Sam-had done, but the line, "My friends, you bow to no one" is a Jacksonian addition. It may be a bit of a modernism given that we generally don't think royalty in entitled to obeisance in the way that medieval people did and Tolkien had many pre-modern sensibilities arising from his love of medieval stories.
Boom! Like 101 baby. Great equation.
@Pandaemoni well if that's a movie change it's one that I can't find any fault in.
A HFMxCinema Therapy collab NEEDS to happen!!
My husband walked in and asked me what I was watching. I replied, “A critique on the Rings of Power, you know, that show we watched a while ago.”
He paused and said, “I can’t recall that show at all.”
For context, he’s someone who didn’t grow up watching LoTR but enjoyed the movies as an adult (even the Hobbit ones). But his response sums it up: the Rings of Power is pretty forgettable.
The show is merely ok at best and downright stupid at the worst. My biggest problem is that the show isn’t memorable. Even the Hobbit movies had plenty of memorable moments for me, and the Lord of the Rings movies were chock full of wonderful, memorable, amazing moments. This show…barely anything stands out. I remember in a few reviews seeing the scene where Galadriel shouts “ There is a tempest in me!” and I legitimately had no memory of seeing that in the show.
There was originally a part of the script where I got my friend, who does not know LotR, to try and recount the plot for RoP. It was rhe funniest stuff because she remembered like none of it but sadly did not fit anywhere.
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe would love to have seen that! Alternatively, it would be a great short 😆
yeah, that pretty much sums it up. And for the amount of money they spent not being able to create a single memorable moment is a feat on itself.
I watched ROP with a couple of friends who "liked it".
I say "liked it" because I have asked them to recount or even mention one scene that they were happy was there or they really enjoyed.
They could only say that they "liked to be back in the world again."
LOL “Galadriel was shipwrecked”
Come on. That entire chain of ridiculously plotted chance occurrences and terrible decision making was kicked off by her jumping into the middle of the ocean, because reasons.
Yes 😅 I later clarify the random chain of events in that, but yes, she was not shipwrecked - she found herseld on a shipwreck.
~ Tim
I remember an old story written by Jack London about a man who was on the ship that sank. They did not have rescue boats but he swam over a full day and reached the land.
In the beginning of the story though, the writer gave a very convicning description this man, how amazingly strong he was, and also optimistic and amazingly set on things he plans to do. Why could they not give something liek that to Guyladriel? I know, because there were no writers on the team. They are all just hacks who got this job through connections with Jar Jar Abrams I believe.
I cannot wrap my head around why anyone would attempt a Second Age story without access to the extended material. How do you tell Galadrial's story without access to her _literal story?_
It was doomed from the start.
They could have made the show about a deep dive into soooooo many other things, but they pick something they can barely talk about? Make it make sense!
@@Casualete Right. So many stories either in or suggested by the LOTR text rather than cover areas people know and doing it wrong.
"Rings of Power is simultaneously structured around the Halbrand reveal, but not written to give it meaning." That is a great summary!
Halbrand
@@deceiver444 corrected
Not to be that guy but I believe you mean "summary" or "summarization".
I remember thinking the show was pretty decent overall. Then the Sauron reveal happened, and I realized I'd completely forgotten that Halbrand was supposed to be important. Could not remember a single thing he'd said or done before teaching the "master smith" about alloys, and I think I'd muddied his and Isildur's characters together in my head.
I didn't bother a rewatch to try parsing them out.
Ehm, no? How is ROP structured around "Hallbrand reveal"? The reveal is literally last 30 minutes of episode. It dit not drive the plot at all - quite opposite, the plot specifically sent that dude to find some scroll - to facilitate this reveal. Nothing prior to that was contributing to the actual "reveal" ever, lmao.
1:35:30 Perhaps the saddest part about the Hobbit trilogy is that, in 1960, Tolkien himself tried to rewrite The Hobbit to be closer to The Lord of the Rings, and he ultimately scrapped the rewrite because it was no longer The Hobbit, so the movies were ultimately trying to do something Tolkien had tried and ultimately considered a bad idea.
For as flawed as they are, they're still at least entertaining. You don't entirely question their existence like with Rings of Power.
I had no idea about this! Would have been a fascinating tidbit to include.
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMeCoincidentally Nerd of the Rings _just_ released a video about it! Haven't seen it yet, but it's gotta be worth something coming from him
@@HelloFutureMethe full manuscript of the scrapped ~2.1 chapters can be found in The History of the Hobbit edited by John Rateliff
damn
One thing I remember from the Rings of Power is the lack of respect for Tolkien and his works. "This isn't your grandfather's Tolkien" and "We're updating it for a modern audience" just made me think, "If you're doing all this hard 'work' changing the story, why are you even doing an adaption in the first place? Why not make your own fantasy show?" then it hit me, "then they won't have gotten anywhere near the budget or attention they did."
THIS!!!
for me, the worst thing was, they attached story of Luthien's Dance to their version of Galadriel... it's was story inspired by Tolkien and his Wife... such disrespect.
Updatin for modern audience these days sounds like a control shot in the head of the project.
I wanted the reveal to be that Sauron was fractured- that the Stranger was The Power, Halbrand was The Regret, and (maybe) the sword was The Intent, and that by the end of season 1 he pulls himself together and then goes on to be Annatar with season 2 seeing the progress of the rings.
I wondered if it would be something like this as well. Though I also thought Halbrand would have been a good nazgûl
Oh that would have been really cool, and nicely tied together all the random threads
They don't have the rights to Annatar...
As equally Tolkien as RoP was
@@GonzoTehGreat I used it as an example of a name… he has many names
One thing that really bothered me with ROP is how unkindly the show treats non main characters. Background characters are all idiots, often selfish and weak-willed, just going along with whoever seems the most charismatic at the moment. This is especially noticeable in Numenor, and in the southlands.
Take the southlands for example: all the background characters speak in low-class (American southern or northern British) accents, they wear dishevelled clothes, have dirt on their face, there are barely any women or children among them, while our main characters look pristine, speak in high class American or British accents, and are wearing colourful clothes. The background characters also never display an ounce of sympathy, gratitude, selflessness, or frankly any positive character trait you could think of. It paints this incredibly dim view of the every-man, when I don't think that really is something that flows from Tolkien's work.
In fact, the opposite (to continue with your last sentence): the hobbits with their love of simple life and hidden virtues like courage, loyalty and perseverance were Tolkien's love letter to the English every-man (by his own admission). He understood people's need for high stories of larger-than-life heroism, but he also understood that we need them precisely to help us find these qualities in our own humble selves.
This is a really good way of putting it. I had not thought of it like that, but yes - that was a common theme, and partly why they felt so bland!
~ Tim
Honestly, it's probably a reflection of how they (at least subconsciously) see irl lower and middle classes
Why in the world were the hobbits all so dirty???
@@lydiaalexian1435the hygiene expert sprained their ankle and was left behind 💀
just a quick quibble in regards to the the Murder Hobbits section: leaving people behind is *not* something that real nomadic societies would do and is not realistic. Particularly in regards to injuries that can be healed. An adult human represents an incredible amount of resources that that society has invested in them. abandoning an entire family group because of a minor injury would be unthinkable to any semi-successful human society throughout history. one of the earliest signs of complex social groups is mended bones. Additionally, there is just a whole mess of issues with the realism of the societies that the showrunners have invented for this show, the hobbits worst of all
Yep also it would in all likelihood led to revolts or people outright leaving that tribe and forming their own. Like imagine your best friend is abandoned because of an curable injury. Do the writers think nomadic people who would value loyalty and have a strong bond with each other would be accepting of such a decision? The tradition would never even start in the first place because the first time someone attempted it, they'd have many others fighting for their friend and his/her family or giving them the finger and leaving with their friends. Than there's another thing nomadic people need a bunch of families as having multiple bloodlines is important else we get into the inbreeding stage and at that point the whole tribe is screwed. Very unlikely for them to find another hobbit family to join up when they're constantly migrating and suspicious of outsiders anyway. Nomad life was rough and sticking together through thick and thin is what kept them alive. You start betraying or throwing away life's in that style of life and no-one will trust you. Someone would stab the leader at that point for murder/revenge.
I can say the same with hunter gather society they didn't have the strict view of gender that people like to think or what the 1950s have it sometimes women where found to be hunter or men doing what people think was a women job also these society whete sometimes step up differently form another some would view private property as a joke or sometimes women where the leaders i don't thunk it was the norm but it did happens in reality as oppose to it never and it show how women are as capable as men sure men are stronger but that isn't everything and itt doesn't give that much of an advantage and women are able to fight too
100% and thank you for saying it. Historically humans survive though PRO-social behaviors. These harfoots wouldn't last a couple generations like this.
@@USSAnimeNCC-hunter gathers did have gender division of labor with most of the time men being hunters and women gathers,
Leadership was mostly about age and no they wouldn't find the concept of private property funny as they didn't have surplus production to produce property, so they wouldn't know why that concept even is
Of course we are using your Marxist detention here in which "personal property" isn't considered private property
@@MajorSmurf Plus it would inspire fear that it could happen to you. I mean, it's already a terrible thing for them to threaten to leave behind your friend or parent, but if it is something they'd regularly do (especially for things that aren't their fault), then how sure can anybody be that they themselves would be safe in this group? If the moment it becomes even slightly inconvenient they'd ditch anybody they could, why even invest in this group? Yes, if there is no hope of escape for the herd a group of animals (of which humans are part of) will leave behind those that they cannot save. But they usually have tried. Newborn calfs are often kept in the center with the adults trying to shield them. Only when they have to run an the child get's bitten and dragged down, THEN and only then do they decide to cut their losses. But they slow down for injured ones on their travels.
I find it very weird, that you put The Little Platoon in there. The man isn't sexist at all. He is also not conservative... and a bit gay, a lot actually.
Little Platoon and I have talked, and are looking to talk more. I removed the section because while talking about men's issues, mental health, and masculinity are important, and I will do so in the future, I want my channel to be a positive place for people, and I didn't feel the last section lived up to that as best I could.
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe I‘m glad you talked to Platoon. Don’t get me wrong. You made some valid points about some of the others. When it comes to that group, I just wish people would leave Platoon and Mauler out of it.
@@morgenstern2603Why do they choose to associate with that community?
@@pastlife960 I don’t know them personally, but I assume to promote their channels. It is hard to make your channel successful, if you don’t have others to promote it. They are all individuals, and I don’t believe in guilt by association.
@@HelloFutureMeI'm glad to hear that you two were able to talk; I hope you can discuss more with him and some of the others you mentioned, since I feel he was not the only one unfairly maligned in the video.
“I like half of it half as well as I would like and I like less than half of it half as well as it thinks it deserves” PERFECTLY sums up my thoughts on this, ty tim 🙌🏻😂
In reality, nomads in communities would help each other, not abandon each others just because. That's the one reason why they travel in groups, to support each others.
Well there is Genghis khans childhood where he and his family was abandoned when his father died and were left behind
I’m agreeing that the actions in the show were stupid given the context but abandoning others when their a burden does happen
@@lazndlon7687 That was a conscious, political move. Because his father was the former chieftain of the tribe, and the new one wanted his potential opposition gone.
This myth is annoying and pernicious.
Humans are naturally cooperative. Our capacity to cooperate in exquisite detail across a huge gamut of tasks, not just hunting or self-defence, is one of our defining features and alongside tool use is a key driving force to why it’s us living in cities cleared of all threats rather than wolves or bonobos or octopodes. People claiming otherwise are not only incorrect, but usually trying to make a political cudgel with which to advocate for anti-social policies
@@TAP7a If humans are naturally cooperative then why are their so many conflicts. When life is easy everyone works together but if resources become scarce or someone’s power is threatened then humans will naturally look out for themselves and their families
I remember when the news broke that Amazon didn’t even have the rights to adapt most of the actual works that dealt with the 2nd age. The question of 'why even?' rung so loud in my head.
I do hope we get even a partial adaptation of the Silmarillion someday. Doesn't have to go into the weeds with the creation myths or trying to tell the whole damn story in one go, but you can easily get amazing stories from just using the Beren & Luthien or the Children of Hurin arcs.
@@paulgibbon5991 I agree. I would be interested in seeing that. I love the genuinely mythical character that the creation stories and epic legends of the Silmarillion has.
Even if they had the rights for "The Downfall of Numenor" it would not change anything, because everything Tolkien ever wrote about the Second Age is not more than an outline. Every Second Age show - no matter who tries to make it - has to create tons of additions, otherwise we would never see any Second Age adaptation at all.
When the Soviet Fellowship outshines your billion dollar monstrosity... you know you done f'ed up...
Rung of Pow-wow at the Amazon studios....
Okay, am I going crazy? I was watching this video, got up to take a break, came back not five minutes later and the run time has changed and the bit I was on has disappeared? I swear this video was four hours long and I had one hour left before my loo break??
I just came back to finish watching it too. And same thing. It went from being 4 hours to 2 hours and 33 minutes.
@@MooBler350I think he might be re-editing it since there was a youtuber who slipped in that didn’t really belong with the others. He may not have wanted to bring that one unwarranted bad publicity. The message it conveyed was still very important, so I hope it’s back again soon.
@@TheShanicpoweragreed. It was literally the crux of this video to call out the misrepresentation of Rings of Power as woke and now it’s gone.
@@TheShanicpower I had noticed that one of the people mentioned didn't seem to be intended as a criticism, but that it came across as one nonetheless.
Hey everyone - I ended up removing the "wokebros" section of the video because: [1] while my central message around men's mental health and masculinity is vital, and I will continue to talk about men's issues and how men get caught up in this stuff, I want my channel to be a positive place, and I don't feel I lived up to that in the best way I could in that section, and [2] frankly, I have not been dealing with this video mentally very well from the day it dropped.
Hope you all understand
~ Tim
Please explain why the second half of the video disappeared ...?
Not just me, then! 😂
I'd think it's because many who watch rather small youtuber mentioned there came in and said that he shouldn't be on such a hit list.
@@Eemi_SeppalaI hope that's the case and he's just editing out that youtuber. Because most of the points he made in that part were valid and important and without them the entire point of the video falls apart.
Probably late, but I watched the whole 2nd part before it got cut. The short version is that Tim wrote a section about the "WokeBros", a term he made to group together channels such as the critical drinker, mauler, disparu, and others. He discussed how these channels were often just rage bait intended to incite anti-woke feelings and cherrypicking shoes they don't like for views. While I think he made some good points about how we should consider film criticism on CZcams with a healthy dose of salt, he also used some inflammatory language such as calling the group "incels" and just seemed to rant on about them, which is why it was probably taken down after it drew criticism from fans of the "WokeBros"
I was always hoping that Halbrand would actually be the king of the Southlands.
Then we could have watched Sauron corrupt him (eventually becoming a Ringwraith) and have Galadriel struggle with wanting to kill Sauron but not want to fight her friend.
There could have been a really interesting tug-of-war over the allegiance of Halbrand.
No, stop, that’s too interesting! We can’t have that!
/s
I was also hoping for this, or that he’d turn out to be the king from the Paths of the Dead and befriend Isildur before betraying him.
I wrote an entire tumblr post detailing what I wished happened, and this was a HUGE thing I wanted. Let us see the slow decline of his mental health and corruption by Sauron and the rings!!!! LET ME SEE INNER TURMOIL WITH HIS FRIENDS AND HIS MORALS AND HIS DESIRE FOR POWER UGH
@@rae3781 This is why Tv Series are longer than movies, so the slow progression can let us see this kind of thing
That would have been cool to watch
The beauty of Game of Thrones is that every character battles with good or evil, and even their "good" might not be good for someone else. The Stranger battling good and evil all season to finally say "I AM GOOD" is the most one-dimensional arc of all time.
Truly, how could the audience possibly have know he was good if he did not explicitly confirm he was good verbally? How would they know?!
~ Tim
There is no beauty in Game of Thrones. Everyone is evil or if they are good they die.
@@AndrewFrancisIlyrian Have you read the books or are we exclusively talking about the show?
@@wasabiknight8125 both
@@wasabiknight8125 I read the books up to Feast for Crows
The "do not harass those creators i mentioned" disclamer really needed to be in the beginning. I am sure lots of people went right away.
it's a pointless thing to say anyway, don't know why youtubers bother (other than for their own protection against accusations of "inciting harassment", i suppose). the harassment comes from the most deranged people that are going to harass them regardless, they aren't the type to value basic respect or to heed warnings
Then they immediately sent their horde of fanboys to harass him...
@@ian-flanagan I'm pretty sure
@@andresacosta4832 How do you know it wasn't just fans seeing this video and getting angry at the blatant misrepresentation of content creators they like?
@@TheRedHaze3 because non-fans like me don't give a sht
You are incorrect. For Rings of Power to be a disappointment it had to have some promise to begin with it was a corporate money-grab sideshow from go, so, it's about the expected level of garbage.
Exactly. Lord me
Emphasize you’re amazing comment. - Amazon waited until Christopher Tolkien died early in the production of its DumpsterFire, his "demand" was that Amazon could use the Appendices to make the show, but they couldn't change the lore. As soon as Christopher died, Amazon delayed the show for reshoots, fired Tom Shippey who was the lead Tolkien scholar & friend of Tolkien himself; they wanted Jackson on the team.
PeterJackson asked for the scripts then they ghosted him. Then later when asked about it he basically told them good luck.. You can blame this garbage show on Simon Tolkien, its stink doesn't reach Christopher. Firstly: they merge events (from thousands of years of history & build up towards several events but puts them all into one moment as if it’s happening in the same few years without time jumps or anything.) Guyladriel the murderous one dimensional girlboss heroine version of Galadriel never met Miriel(one of Aragorn’s ancestors) because, as an elf, she would have been sacrificed to Morgoth by the King's Men.
The hobbits and Gandalf never met in the 2nd Age because Gandalf was in Valinor till the 3rd Age.
Miriel wasn’t even born yet. She was born 300 years before or after the rings of power era. Also Elendil would never say “forget the past and toss it aside.” That’s the whole thing about the Faithful Númenoreans!!! Faithfulness to what’s good. To their elf friends. To the Valar, to Eru Îlluvatar. The way Galadriel acts like Fëanor when he isn’t seeing straight such as how she threatened bloodshed in the highest court of Númenor! The way she isn’t tall, the way she fights rookies doesn’t make her look strong. Should have had her spar with Elendil who was greater than Miriel in many ways even as far as lineage goes too! Have her spar with those greater Numenoreans and let the rookies laugh at their masters being vested by an elf woman holding back from actually hurting them! Now that’d be cool.
(Remember. Their whole mantra was to write the book Tolkien never wrote”. Also watch them fake super fans. And then watch their social media that had nothing Tolkien on it ever. Like…. It’s painfully obvious what’s going on here. Same formula towards other titles. They’re just trying to bank on the brand of which that’s the only reason they did this.
Just watch Peter Jackson’s new movie coming out and the War of the Rohirim. You’ll see that Brian Cox is involved In it along with Philipa Boyens as well as Actor for Èowyn named Miranda Otto. Fran Walsh I also believe is Involved as well! Watch George The Giant Slayer’s first video regarding the war of the rohirrim. It was beautiful. And he has a wonderful soul too. When I say first video.
I don’t mean very first uploaded video though lol. )
There was also no Adar. No poppy. No Nori. No fake Gandalf who literally didn’t come the way he was supposed to which introduces Círdan. And since they screwed up the themes and lore so badly they have to dig in their heels. And they are also being sued by multiple people and groups and companies actually. The rings were forged last and not first. They were not in his sights or touch nor did he even know about them. And also guyladriel wasn’t a murderous Fëanorean either. But the note of the elven rings.
They were made last and without the knowledge of Sauron. His touch never got to them. Made in secret so that whole story is thrown out the window as well. And making them first and having the obvious Sauron figure who wasn’t an elf to just be there when they’re making them and have his eye show up in the forge which wasn’t even the worst of it.
The greatest of elven smiths still around which is Celebrimbor doesn’t even know what alloying is. Not to mention all their environmental scandals on top of bad CGI stuff. Full of copy past crowds and plagerisms up the wazoo. It’s also getting sued by several people and groups.
I’ll also remind you that they just ran an old sick horse til it died of cardiac arrest and then only had a ten min coffee break to loosely honour this horse. Not to mention Tolkien loved animals in a deep way. They also have been causing environmental damage one of which being King Charles ancient forest to make a set. It’s scandal after scandal. And the fire in studio that took four hours to put out with firemen for yet another example.
PS they don’t have the rights to the Silmarillion nor anything much of the second age let alone the first. Only the trilogy books and their appendices….
Remember that they also plagiarized tonnes of films in nontasteful instead of true a homage way… “tempest in me” but when threatening Fëanorean level bloodshed in the court of Numenor was from Cate Blanchett’s Elizabeth role which was done with grace and poise of a veteran actress(which doesn’t even sound like anything those of the great chill house of Finarfin would even act like.
Again it’d be best to put Elrond there due to Elros. But ooook let’s make girlboss do everything. Even if it continues to make zero sense. )😍
fact they downplayed Elendil, Gil-Galad and Finrod is beyond infuriating and not explaining Elwing, Elronds mother beyond just showing her as a swan was pure LOLism. Like. What’s worse is Grandpabimbor…. Let’s not forget good ol’ Guyladriel either. The LOTR version of Star Wars’ Rey! Guyladriel the Female Fëanor without any of his charms and subtleties and wit… just the bloody violent rages…
The thing I can't stand about Theo is the name itself-Tolkien was so careful about his names. The elves and Gondorians have Elvish names, with their specific flavor; the Rohirrim have Old English/Anglo-Saxon; and the hobbits and Breelanders have either nature names or very simple, almost timeless English names. Theo comes from Theophilus, a GREEK name, and it jars so terribly in Middle-earth.
Maybe Theo is just short for Theoden
I think that they were going for a Rohirrim sounding name (Théoden, Theodred), but they didn't really think it through. It's so jarring since there's no other character name that sounds similar in the show, so it just makes it stand out even more. Or maybe you're right and they weren't even thinking about it.
Not necessarily Theophilos, Theo is also a shortened form of Theodoros (Anglicised to Theodore) - but still very much Greek.
It’s even a step deeper. Tolkien, as a linguist, even thought about how men of Rohan and Hobbits share a closer heritage.
The whole story is supposed to represent a actual historical account written in a in world language that was then translated into a language we can understand. Frodo actually isn’t named Frodo in the universe, his name is Maura Labingi.
The fictional historian translating the document just changed the name into an equivalent we, as English readers, would understand better.
So Hobbits got these old Francian placeholder names like Frodo, Bilbo or Peregrin and with that in universe translation are we even able to understand when Theoden mentions that all those Hobbit names sound like very old timey names their ancestors used to have and how they share several similar folk tales in their culture and so on.
I hate that they used Elanor as a Harfoot name for the same reason. Sam naming his daughter Elanor was a fusion of the way his travels had broadened him and connected him to a wider world (since the elanor is a small, star-shaped flower that specifically grows in Lothlorien) with the Hobbit tradition of naming daughters after flowers. It was a unique name that represented an aspect of Sam's character and character growth. Now it's just any old Harfoot/Hobbit name and who knows why they even know what elanor is.
I’ll be completely honest, I didn’t even know I was supposed to be curious as to who Sauron might be until I actually went online to search something about the actors and then found news about it, teasing the “mystery”
Yeah, I didn’t really realize I was supposed to be wondering about that either, until they revealed it dramatically...
Same…
Omg, finally, someone like me! I never wondered about Sauron's identity because it's not something Tolkien would do. Sure, there were some twists and surprises in his books but he was never playing the "mystery box" guessing game with the reader. The foe was never a "surprise villain", even with Annatar we knew he was Sauron. I'd never expect that game from Tolkien and never expected it here. But of course the writers aren't Tolkien, which is painfully glaringly obvious.
omg same! I realized it was a "guessing game" when I went on the subreddit. I just never was expecting that to be the key hook or plot point..? Like I thought it would be SEEING Sauron manipulate people, that's what I actually wanted. Majestic, charismatic guy (he's an angel ffs), pulling people's strings masterfully. Not knockoff Aragorn.
It wasn't a disappointment to me, as I was under no impressions they would make anything but trash. Lo and behold i was right.
Helbrand's situation reminds me of the end of _Pocahontas,_ where they decide that the best cure for a gunshot wound is three months at sea to arrive in 17th Century England
The problem I have with Galadriel changing from "let's do an orc genocide" to "killings bad actually" is 1. We never see her actually go far. Everyone she kills she's completely justified. It's not like she ever has a helpless orc at the end of a sword and just mercilessly butchers it. You can say she gets close with Adar, but she doesn't do it so at the end of the day it was all just fiery speech from her. 2. We never see where or why the switch flips in her head. It just happens in the space of one episode. She completely 180s after millenia of thinking a certain way. The growth isn't shown or earned it just happens.
I think actually seeing her commit to some violence would have been good - even if only in the first scene, instead of killimg the troll, we see hee kill a fleeing/surrendering orc (ie. Someone who deserves mercy). But being trapped in Numenor means we cant do much on that front.
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe yeah exactly. Galadriel TELLS us constantly how much she wants to slaughter orcs, but that's never seen. The two times she properly commits to a fight is in one scenario to save her comrades, and the other to save a bunch of villagers. Nothing about it suggests any level of anger or wrath, she's just objectively doing the right thing in those moments. Obviously the show doesn't have access to a lot of expanded materials as you mentioned in your video, but a very important contextual element in the legendarium is that elves do not endorse or engage in the wholesale slaughter of any living things, orcs included. It could have been a very powerful moment for Galadriel to see her juxtaposed against the rest of Elven culture by killing a defenseless orc and seeing the shock and horror from other elves. That would have been "touching the darkness."
@@HelloFutureMe I feel what we should've gotten was probably some scene where she cuts down some Orc only for it to writhe on the ground. Clearly incapacitated, but still have this life in it enough to say something like "I know you. The general of the north. The one who abandoned her husband... what was his name?" something enough taunting her to go from "Elegant Warrior who cuts down orcs effectively and unemotionally" to have her become enraged and instead of cutting down the orc she pummels him to the point even her allies are like "That's enough Galadriel!"
Make it violent. Make it *UGLY* what she has become.
I see no evidence that this character development was planned as her character arc, or if it was, the writers on the previous episodes weren’t told about it. And she doesn’t remember, beyond some sanctimonious lines to the annoying kid. I think it is more likely that the work-for-hire writer who crafted the Adar-Galadriel dialogue was just aware that Galadriel’s character had a problem. Unlike the showrunners.
Canon is important. Tolkien laid out tens of thousands of years of history that underpin the writing and making of The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit. This disregard for established Canon is an intentional way of pissing on Tolkien's grave. Thank God for people like Nerdrotic, George the Giant Slayer, The Critical D,rinker and the like defending the professor's legacy.
What's truly baffling about this show is how it looks both expensive AND cheap at the same time given the ungodly amounts of money thrown at it.
100% agree. The armor and customs are bad too awful. Made worse once you compare to the movies...
It looks so cheap because 99% of the time it looks so obvious they're standing in front of a green screen. You can tell the sets are really small and the environment is just a skybox that you can't interact with.
I haven't seen it myself, but the clips always leave me confused about the styling/costuming. Some pieces look well-made and realistic, while others seem cheap. Some of the hairstyling feels like a fantasy show, and some of it a standard modern-day haircut.
One thing I do think might lend to a confusing overall visual is the colour-grading/palette - the LOTR trilogy has grainy and grungy darks while the bright colours like the green of the Shire pop off the screen. It makes the entire thing feel fantastical, and adds to the character of each individual place in Middle Earth.
Meanwhile, everything in ROP feels like it's been coloured the same, and the style they chose to go with makes the costumes look more costume-y.
In an amateur production, I'd find it charming, but with this show's Amazon money, it just feels jarring.
@@cranberryrosebud
Celebrimbor's robes for example. He looks like he's wearing curtain drapes. The original character Bronwyn is the only one in her village that seems to have colourful clothes. It's just all over the place.
Fr, all the unstructured polyester robes, the 3D-printed designs, jewellery straight off the shelf... But most importantly, the cultures don't have distinct aesthetics. I was so pissed when everyone kept saying "don't worry, if the writing is bad at least we know the show is gonna look good" AND IT FUCKING DIDN'T
Good critique, but I think you should have better researched your section on other youtubers. There were definitely some you lumped in that shouldn't have been there.
His general criticism applies to Az and Gary, part of why their shows bore the hell out of me is because all they do is bitch about politics.
But Drinker, Random, and Platoon have actual arguments to back up the criticisms they levy.
@@samwallaceart288so, you don’t watch Az and Gary. Got it.
@@greyknight627 I don't think they're evil, just that every clip I've seen of them on any topic they have the most woke-bad version of the point while everyone else has actual arguments. I don't watch them that often for that reason.
That said, I still wouldn't use any of that as grounds to cancel them or label them a pipeline; I just think they have shoddy argumentation and glaring biases that shoot them in the foot; they're not alt-right footsoldiers.
HFM's critiques have some application there, but the conclusions HFM draws are unfair. Looking back on my comment now I failed to clarify that. Gary and Az are nowhere near Synthetic Man on the spectrum; I just meant the "your politics are the driving factor here and that hurts your work" critique applies to their side of things where it doesn't to folk like Platoon.
How the Hell is Random Film Talk a woke bro?
Simply put he isn't
I agree, but his response was...not a great look on him.
@@dukesilver3491his response was well justified
@supersuit5790 not saying he shouldn't respond but he fully defended all the chuds. Anyone who doesn't see any problem with the kind of nonsense Shad, drinker, Nerdrotic etc say completely loses any credibility in my eyes.
He’s not
"I like half of it half as well as I would like and I like less than half of it as well as I think it deserves." Incredible line. Bilbo would be proud. 👏
As *it thinks it deserves
(I think)
it* thinks it deserves
@@finndelimatamay1983
Accurate
I’m proud that someone is criticizing it that is t some culture war warrior or anti woke loser like the critical drinker go watch Jose video on him on how while he and other like him while complaining about agenda their the one pushing one and watch pillar of garbage and the recent target of culture war warrior is the X-men now
1:16:00 The dialogue in Skyrim is actually better since it's more justified. In that lore, the Elves just won a war where part of their victory was outlawing worship of one of the gods solely because he was human at one point and actively hunting and arresting people inside of Skyrim who didn't comply.
Not to mention, early TES Man was enslaved by early Elven society until Alessia rebelled and Pelinal fought for them (though perhaps took it a bit too far), not to mention Ysgramor losing everything to the Snow Elves, so the hatred unfortunately runs DEEP.
@@manegirl93416 Too far?
No, no - Pelinal didn't go far enough.
Yes! Like it's bad but the Thalmor are legitimately trying to wipe out their religion so they can destroy the world and ascend. 😅
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe*gasp* Senpai noticed me!
"solely because he was human at one point". I mean, I wouldn't love it if my imperial overlords declared that the guy who slaughtered his way through my country was actually a God now
Me seeing them add in Dragon Age/Witcher levels of elf racism in Middle Earth threw me so hard when I heard it. Hearing “knife ear” here, in goddamn Lord of the Rings, I had to turn the show off and sit with my head in my hands for a while.
Why is the video suddenly only 2.5 hours? I didnt get to finish the second half yet?!
He removed the part where he’s criticizing other creators.
I try to be a positive space, and while masculinity and men's issues are really important, the section did not fit with that ethos as much as I thought. I will talk about these issues in the future as they really do matter. Overall, the section has caused an unhealthy amount of anxiety.
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe ok, I guess I can understand that (thanks for the reply btw). It would be awesome if you could find a place to post the unedited version for people that aren't going to get all upset and offended, but guessing that's a tough proposition.
@@HelloFutureMe oh fishsticks, I literally just recommended that video to an acquaintance BECAUSE of that section.... seconding request for an unedited version, if possible.
Reaching the middle of the video and I'm very impressed with how much respect and love he's showing for the whole production without leaving the criticism behind. It's actually rather touching
He even tried to show compassion to Bezos! Couldn’t do it though 😂😂
Wait, are you telling me Amazon spent a billion dollars on a story they don't even have the full rights to? 🤦
I blame RoP for Amazon Prime having commercials now. 😉
@@DeniseDuttonOh damn that might actually be true
@@fisch37 it just feels like something that that guy would do...
yep, that's basically it ;D
Yes, but I think the more damning detail is they did have the rights to a lot of amazing stories and did not use them.
~ Tim
(This is long, please forgive)
In reference to Nerdrotic, I know he speaks in extreme hyperbole and uses a lot of phrases like “Guyladriel.” But I really don’t think he’s “poisonous.”
I think he’s representative of a TON of hardcore fans of tons of IPs that have consistently seen their beloved franchises completely destroyed for the past 15 years…like literally all of them; Star Wars, Star Trek, Dr. Who, LotR, GOT, DC, Marvel, Indiana Jones, James Bond, the list goes on.
And I think it would require a strong Left-Wing bias in a person to NOT notice how strong the left-wing politics are in all of these things…and not just left-wing politics, but specifically a replacement of quality with those politics and then claiming victim status when called out for it.
So all the criticism of Rings of Power is because millions of Tolkien fans are white supremacists who hate the added black cast, instead of the show just being a massive stinker.
And yea, instead of creating a faithful, strong, and nuanced female character in Galadriel, we get “Guyladriel”…the writers turn her into essentially an unlikable, brash warrior man with no foresight, wisdom, or femininity. Basically just the opposite of everything Galadriel is as a character. They do this as a cheap way to give her “character” development (with her becoming more like Galadriel as the show progresses) because they don’t know how to write character development…they just make characters the opposite of themselves and then turn them into themselves for the appearance of development…garbage writing.
And if you hate the unlikable, unnuanced, explicitly evil Galadriel? You’re just a sexist bigot who hates strong women….because you want to see a non-cliche portrayal of a strong woman.
So yea, using left-wing progressive ideology to replace quality in Hollywood is ABSOLUTELY an issue.
I am not advocating for right-wing ideology instead. I want NO ideology in any work of art, except for that which is originally intended by the creator. As a conservative, Nerdrotic is NOT a conservative…he’s just extremely anti-left-wing. There’s a difference. I disagree with him on a LOT of political issues, but we (and I think most of modern fandoms) agree that we don’t want a political message replacing quality or a message shoved down our throats. ANY message, unless it’s the purpose of the art.
Neil Gaiman’s works often are made to resemble a modern day google building…you’ll find lots of ethnic diversity, sexual preferences, religions, philosophies, feminism, etc.
That’s completely fine because that’s his intended purpose. I enjoy them.
That purpose is not the same as Tolkien’s purpose. Tolkien’s main characters are largely ethnically homogeneous. His story and themes are explicitly Catholic. His goal is to take storytelling back to a time of myth, and very often traditionalism. He was a conservative, Catholic, traditionalist, monarchist. His goal was to write mythology for his people. His male characters are masculine, his female characters are feminine. There’s a lot of moral entropy in his world…focus on that. Why can’t we expect those things from a story? Is it really considered racist and sexist to want an adaptation of something to resemble the original thing? If it is, I don’t want to live on this planet anymore. I’ve already said I’m fine with modern writers writing modern thing with modern political sensibilities in it. But we’re not allowed to ask for the themes of Tolkien to be carried through?
It becomes explicitly non-Tolkien when it becomes evident that the creators of the show had a check box on a clipboard when writing “token female black dwarf, check. Token black male elf in interracial relationship, check. Struggling single mom, check. Female versions of the famous hobbits for brand recognition but with a feminist twist, check. Strong female warrior queen that can never be corrected, contradicted, beaten, or overruled in any way by a male character, check.”
Let’s look at the things I just said. In the general art of storytelling, do I have an issue with the portrayal a black female dwarf? Of a black elf? Of interracial relationships? Of single motherhood? Of female hobbits? Of a strong female character?
NO. I have no issue. I don’t think most fans have an issue with those things in themselves.
The issue is when it is inserted into Tolkien…when it becomes apparent that the creators are putting in tropes and themes and ideas against the original work because they HAVE to. Because they’re compelled by a board of directors, by a DEI officer at Amazon to do so. That makes it look like the product of a modern corporation, not a work of art created by passionate artists.
Anyway that was a lot, but I just wanted to explain why there are people like Nerdrotic, and why there is such a strong fan reaction on the political level to shows like this…it’s really not because of toxic masculinity or racism or sexism or whatever else.
So I just wanted to cover that…there’s a GARGANTUAN amount of other issues with this show, from writing, to costumes and sets, to blocking, to acting, to pacing, to in-world rule breaking and contradiction, to lore violation, to quick-traveling…all stuff I’m sure Tim will go on to address in the video.
While i agree on many points, i dont get why random film talks is mentioned in this context. He is talking and analysing movies and series proactively. While i either don't know the other creators you mentioned or even can agree with you, RFT doesent seem like a good fit or example for your list / the point you're trying to make.
Cheers
Little Platoon also, he even has a running gag of people accusing him of defending the sorts of things Tim claims. It’s funny because it shows Tim didn’t watch properly and just made claims in bad faith.
@@lukew6725the best part about including little platoon in his arguments is the mentions constantly about these critcs being anti LGBT when platoon is openly gay
@@BourneColdBloodedYou can be gay and still hold the queerphobic or misogynistic views. There’s a good amount of sexist men in the gay community, and quite a few terfs are gay. (This isn’t to say this CZcamsr qualifies, I haven’t watched him)
@@TheShanicpowerLook no further than James Somerton.
I clicked on this video fully expecting it to be a 4-hour loop of They're Taking the Hobbits to Isengard, since you posted it early on the first of April NZ time.
One could say that April fools jokes are C O M P L I C A T E D.
Really stretching for that 10-minute mark here tim
😂 only a little
@@HelloFutureMe Only 4 hours? Short Man Bad!
@@baconcatbug No no, it's only 2.5 hours.
@@baconcatbug Thanks for that comment, because when I began watching it was a 4-hour video, but then it changed to 2.5 hours and I couldn't understand what kind of bug would lead me to that first misconception. I guess what happened was just some cutting then.
@@straightline2 Apparently he cut out some rant about "woke bros" but i can't imagine that went on for 2 hours... If it did, god damn.
I actually didn't see coming that Halbrand was Sauron. But that's not because the show did an amazing job hiding the twist. It's because I never expected Sauron to be a twist. I didn't understand that the show was trying to hide Sauron's identity inside the characters. I just assumed he was out of this story and he would appear as a last minute cliffhanger for the end.
Also, their red herrings were pretty stupid. The old man was clearly meant to be Gandalf from the beggining, I didn't think for a single second he was another person. And Adar had a personality completely different to Sauron, being honestly concerned for the orcs well being and displaying none of the power one would expect from a Maiar, even when being openly hostile to the heroes.
So for me, the show completely failed with it's intrigue of "who Sauron is". That was never a question in my mind until the exact moment when Halbrand recognises Celebrimbor and I instatly knew he was freaking Sauron. Apparently this question was part of the promotional material for the series, but I don't engage with fan theories much, so I don't care about external material. It was the show's responsibility to generate its own intrigue and it utterly failed.
Wait what happenned to the last hour of the video? Just puft out of existence!?
Tim, you’re becoming one of the CZcamsrs who whenever they drop it feels like an event. Rare territory and damn do I respect the process to invest so much into ONE video.
If only someone did the same for books
@@prakharmathur9453 KrimsonRogue does and it's always a treat! 💛
Demonetization coming in 3... 2...
@@prakharmathur9453 KrimsonRogue does and it's always a treat! 💛
To reach that rarified atmosphere... if only there wasn't so much dang fantasy news 😔
This has been said a hundred times but MAN, this whole idea of "outsmarting the viewer" is just so fucking stupid and almost never works
It is such a weird thing to aim for? Like, for me, if viewers figure things out, that is so exciting!
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe I should have clarified that it's definitely not a bad thing to aim for, not some writers are way too obsessed with it to a big detriment for their story. A predictable story can still be a very good story
@@sunbleachedangelI think trying to throw out a clever twist none of the viewers saw coming in something like a mystery is fine. It's a good thing to aim for in that genre. A good twist can recontextualize the entire story in ways that are shocking, but make perfect sense.
To bring up a recent example, while the Red Wedding is a shocking moment when you first see it, all the pieces leading up to it are clearly pointed out. We see Robb starting to alienate Northern lords like the Karstarks and Boltons. We're repeatedly told that Walder Frey is an incredibly petty and vindictive man, and it's a bad idea for Robb to snub him. We know Tywin Lannister is a cunning politician who knows how to manipulate people and is utterly ruthless. All the pieces of the Red Wedding are properly laid out well before the event goes down.
The problem is that a good shocking reveal needs to be properly set up and foreshadowed, which means some of the audience will guess what's coming. Especially in the internet age where it's so easy for fandoms to get together and exchange notes. A good mystery with a twist ending can't outsmart the audience, because it needs to properly seed in clues and foreshadowing. Even if the clues and foreshadowing are subtle, with a big enough audience someone's going to notice and put it all together. If they then go post what they noticed on social media and other fans see it...
The only way to truly get a twist the audience couldn't possibly see coming is if there's no setup or foreshadowing for it. Which is probably going to feel less like a big reveal that ties everything together, and more like a sudden completely random event.
@@sunbleachedangel It's a bad thing to aim for. You should rely on tropes first, and then write the story in a way that works best for your own vision, even if that vision happens to subvert a trope or two. That's how you "outsmart" a viewer: by believing something strongly enough that it can't be denied. Not by trying to outmaneuver millions of people in hundreds of different levels of familiarity and savviness.
@chengarqordath I'm still not convinced that the aim with these sorts of twists shouldn't be about outsmarting the audience. The aim is to make sure the POV characters wouldn't see it coming.
IMO a twist that is "too obvious" in detective fiction isn't bad because we saw it coming, but because the detective SHOULD have but didn't at it therefore paints him as an idiot. If I see the twist coming but it's still fully reasonable that the characters didn't, IMO that's still potentially a good twist.
The reason that these twists can and do still outsmart a portion of the audience is because the audience see the world through the eyes of the POV characters and if they can't see it coming, it's not unrealistic that the audience will miss it too.
Hey! I dont know if you’re gonna be able to read this, but I just want to say, I was a huge fan some five(?) or so years ago. Life happened and I lost track of your channel, even forgot its name (screw adhd) so I couldnt search for it. But as an aspiring writer, I truly appreciated all the tips you gave in your older vids. I’m a professional film writer now. And today I found your channel again. I’m happy you’re still creating content. I’m happy life has been good to you (it seems). Thank you for guiding young me. Lots of love, man!
This is going to be blunt and perhaps too harsh, if you want to criticize other content creators then do it, snide half remarks and vague gesturing accomplish nothing and only hurt the video. I'd say some of the arguing going on in the comments prove the point.
so mauler is a god now lol
@@examiningkubrickphilosofia1530 lol wut
@@lordteensie6156 lol wut to you
oh very jrrt language btw
@@examiningkubrickphilosofia1530 is you having a stroke? If you smell toast call the emergency number
@@examiningkubrickphilosofia1530make sense you Neanderthal
The issue with Galadriel isn't necessarily the fact that she's a "warrior-princess." I mean, that does kinda go against her character's lore, but from a point of view just focused on storytelling, it's not a bad decision on its own. The issue is that she's a warrior princess who nobody likes and there's no reason to care about her. Eowyn from LOTR was also a "warrior princess," but her story is way better because it's actually meaningful. We see how Eowyn is held back by society, we see her struggle to cope with not being able to help the people she cares about as they suffer, we see her defiance and determination to do what's right even if it breaks her societal traditions, and we see her actions have dramatic consequences for the story (she helps kill the Witch King, without which Gondor would have lost the battle of Pelennor and Minas Tirith would've fallen). Galadriel, on the other hand, has none of this. She's not held back in any significant way, she has no personal struggles, and her actions are extremely inconsequential. Most of her contributions to the story are just due to her happening to be in the right place at the right time. That's why her character sucks. Amazon clearly wanted to paint the image of a strong, independent woman, but ended up creating the exact opposite - a boring character with no agency and no arc or growth.
Now that you mention it, you could remove Galadriel from the show entirely and none of the main plot points would change. Stranger/Gandalf still appears. Elrond/Durin/Mithril/Dwarves story still happens. Sauron still finds his way back to Middle Earth. Celembrimdor still makes the three elven rings. Mordor still gets created in the same way.
A major part of why Eowyn succeeds where Galadriel does not is that Eowyn also comes to realise that her pursuit of battle and death is not the right course. Though she does achieve great things on this path - slaying the Witch King is a huge deal - she realises that it's hurting her and that it's not a sustainable way to live, that the world does not need any more war. She dedicates herself to life rather than death, becoming a healer.
This has sometimes been framed as her "returning to traditional womanhood" or some such waffle but it's really about her choosing (of her own volition) to live by helping others rather than killing others. It shows that there is more to Eowyn beyond being reduced to a tomboyish warrior princess trope, that she is deeply affected by the trauma of war just like everyone else, and the suffering she saw and went through broke any delusions she had that dying in battle is glorious. It's an experience many young men went through in WW1, probably including Tolkien himself.
@@sulphuric_glue4468 That's a pretty decent analysis. WW1 marked the end of the "glory in battle" ideal that dominated history and storytelling because technology completely changed the nature of warfare. No longer was warfare predominately man vs. man and may the best man prevail. Instead WW1 saw the rise of weapons of mass of destruction on a scale never seen before: artillery, machine guns, gas. Killing was done anonymously, randomly and at a distance. There was nowhere left for the old ideals about warfare to hide. It was finally unmasked as the fiction it always was.
You could definitely feel that she was basically just "allowed" to move on to the next plot beat when it felt convenient-hence all the coincidences. We were meant to empathise with her, but I think most people just found her incredibly frustrating or yeah, boring.
¬ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe Galadriel is oddly set up for future seasons given what little lore we have from Tolkien about the Second Age. First off, she's married and has been for centuries but we go the whole season with just one throwaway line in there about her husband. And it comes across on screen rather awkwardly which makes it seem like it the line was hastily added. She's also supposed to have a daughter, Celebrían, and there's no mention of her at all. Elrond and Celebrían are supposed to fall in love - a dream storyline for a television series, but again she doesn't even exist yet on the show. She gets a ring for seemingly no reason other than she happened to be standing around in the room when they were being made.
It always seemed to me that the writers should have made Celebrían the main character of the story instead of Galadriel. There's almost nothing written about Celebrían so the writers would have had carte blanche. Sure the woke bros would still complain about the whole girlboss thing but at least this time they can't cry about ruining an already established character. Galadriel's stated motivation for coming to and staying in Middle Earth was the wish to establish and rule over her own realm. This clashes with the adventure-Galadriel we get. Focusing on Celebrían undoes this clash but at the same time Celebrían would still know all the same interesting and powerful people that Galadriel also knows precisely because her parents rule such a powerful realm. No need to invent the silly "Commander of the Northern Armies" title which lasts for all of one episode before adventure-Galadriel abandons her troops - or more accurately they abandon her. We could also ditch the revenge plot which never really worked anyway as a good motivation for Galadriel.
The "mystery box" storytelling is not only a ridiculously overused modern plot device, but fundamentally is runs contrary to _everything_ in Tolkein's writing. Tolkein _never_ used ongoing mysteries to keep his readers engaged. It was quite enough to just get the reader invested in the outcome without all of the misdirection and obfuscation.
It is the continuing insistence that mystery must drive the plot that causes RoP to fail. Tolkein simply didn't write that way... ever.
Agreed, not every story needs the Mystery Box. In the first act of Lord of the Rings, we already know what the One Ring is and who made it (Sauron) and why he made it, and that Frodo intends to destroy it, and where he intends to destroy it (Mt. Doom), and how he intends to destroy it (cast it into the fire), these info weren't artificially held back for the BIG REVEAL. In the first act of Back to the Future, we already know what the time machine is (DeLorean) and who made it (Doc Brown) and what makes it work (flux capacitor) and when he came up with it (1955).
Yeah it came across to me as very "modern" storytelling, which did not really fit the source material. That style just was not working for me (or clearly others).
~ Tim
The only mystery in TLOTR was 1) who are these black riders hunting Frodo (book 1), and 2) Did Frodo even survive, when the armies march on the Black gate and the Mouth presents his clothes/weapons. (Book 5/6).
Both are intended mysteries, designed to keep you asking, but both are awesome.
They did the same with Wheel of time. They introduced a "mystery" that was never there in the books and actively prevented them from telling the story for the need to artificially maintain a mystery that never was needed.
But that is what happens when you put in charge talentless hacks who actively seek to shit on a source material they hate.
@@iogssothoth666 More like source material that they like for superficial reasons, and don't understand the stuff under the hood that mechanistically makes it work.
It is EXTREMELY shocking that the writers and seemingly everyone involved somehow didn’t understand that they created the most terrifying, villainous proto-hobbits imaginable
A long long time ago....
(The Beginnings video)
Tim: "I do not know how people do three hour long take downs of Star Wars movies on this site."
March 31, 2024
(This video)
I guess he took lessons on how to make long, critical videos.
You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. Though also long doesnt mean bad. I said that more because i dont enjoy filming and it would take ages 😅 I actually quite like long critiques, just never thought I could do them.
~ Tim
You either leave CZcams with short videos or make 4 hour long essey about Morrowind.
When Tim? When will video essey about Morrowind drop?
When you realize that successfully catalogging and critiquing a piece of art when you are taking it seriously takes a significant amount of time.
@@HelloFutureMe Thanks for replying!
The true mystery of the show, and one that admittedly kept me watching the whole thing, is "Really? That's it?" (The answer is unfortunately "Yes, that's it")
You mean, the trailers?
"Okay surely they can't screw up-- dear lord..."
The Brandon Sanderson clip is wonderful because I FELT that reaction
One of the problems for Galadriel's character that I don't hear being talked about is that she basically wants to get revenge on her brother and nobody cares about it. But in episode 7, she reveals out of nowhere that she had a husband that is taken by Sauron which apparently she doesn't even care about. The thing that immediately popped into my head was that if she was trying to find her husband that everybody believed to be dead, but she thought that is alive, and she was doing all of this to find and rescue him, she would become instantly more likable and her motivations would become clearer.
The hairstyles alone render this show utterly unforgivable to me. They made Finrod look like Duke Nukem and Celebrimbor look like Mitt Romney.
It was rough. Like there's not necessarily a lore requirement for all elves to have long hair, but Jackson's trilogy did it very well, and changing it doesn't accomplish anything.
@@fishymacaroon6 Certainly. Though to be fair, there is also short hair and short hair. And this is a very abysmal incarnation...
Right? Sure, it sounds like a very shallow critique of a very minor flaw, but even if the rest of the show was excellent, that little thing would still bother me, because the way they chose to portray the elves visually made them luck too human - too chubby, like Gil-Galad, too old, like Celebrimbor, too short-haired, like many of them
@RonetaG casting an old Celebrimbor alongside a very young Galadrial when they should be, at least for elves, basically the same age was a wild choice. Gil Galad should be younger than both of them and is supposed to be one of the greatest warriors of the elves. Why they felt he should be a tubby middle-aged politician is beyond me.
@fishymacaroon6 exactly, Celebrimbor is actually younger than Galadriel, and even had a crush on her, if i remember correctly. Now imagine these two flirting... When I've heard about this show being made, i really wanted to see the likes of Celebrimbor and Gil-Galad on screen, in all their eterial beauty and glory. And we've got a senile master craftsman and a middle aged chonk. Even if rop was actually well written and in all other aspects a perfect adaptation, that would still bother me
my contribution to this discussion is as follows:
"Tolkien comes back and says "it's pronounced Jandalf" then promptly dies again"
Maybe it’s supposed to be ”Jaladriel” then, too!
Jondor
😂😂😂
Jimli son of Jloin
@@rangerstedfast my tongue tripped down the stairs trying to pronounce that
I know you're unlikely to see this, but it's important for me to say: You are one of the people who helped me survive the hard time in my life. The compassionate way you speak about men's issues, loneliness and mental health, like you touched on again in this video, is extremely important. Thank you.
I had to make myself forget "Rings of Power" bc it was so disrespectful to the audience's intelligence at every turn. This video felt like a healthy exorcism, but also confirmed my resigned disappointment. All those people, working so passionately. They deserved better.
Rings of Power felt like a novice imitating a master without understanding the master's choices, and the perfect example of this is the "multiple plotlines that don't start out in the same place and stay mostly disconnected" thing. The writers looked at Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones, saw sprawling storylines and decided they must to have a similar structure, but they failed to figure out how to make that work. The writers of Rings of Power just...don't understand good writing.
Nepo babies vs The Professor
They got Lost before they even started.
Honestly, I think it’s way too harsh to call them bad writers. In hindsight, if you listen to all the complaints from the writers strike about the affect undervaluing writers has on their work; than all the writing in Hollywood makes sense.
What you’re doing here is comparing the output of a man, with the job security of a tenured professor, working on a project for years to people who got paid sometimes less than a living, given impossible deadlines, who’s opinions were constantly ignored, and if their work wasn’t a commercial success were unlikely to be able to pay their rent. Amazon is known for treating their writers like shit and so their creative output suffered.
@@elimgarak3553 Okay to put it more politely then, they're woefully inexperienced writers, totally not equipped to head a project that was supposed to rival Game of Thrones in its scope. And yeah, I'm sure a lot of their creativity was subject to oversight from Amazon suits, but that doesn't excuse the fact that every part of the show that has to do with writing was poorly done.
@@genghisgalahad8465👏👏👏
“Men are allowed to be more kinds of men than ever before.” Thank you.
Except be masculine cause that's toxic apparently
while drinking HOOCH...
2:18:20 This is actually the core of why Waterworld was so panned in it's day. as a film, it was passable, it was 'okay'. BUT it was INSANELY EXPENSIVE to make, and was "JUST okay".
So the last part, roughly 90-100 minutes were cut out, maybe due to controversy, for legal reasons or needs to re-edit stuff. Is there going to be a statement/ a disclaimer to why this is and if the cut-out parts will come back after some polishing? I know it's probably not the coolest thing to talk about "mistakes" or controversy, but since this is a pretty huge part of the video missing for now, it would be good to know what's up with that.
Tim has addressed this in a few replies to comments asking the same thing. Two of his replies were:
"I try to be a positive space, and while masculinity and men's issues are really important, the section did not fit with that ethos as much as I thought. I will talk about these issues in the future as they really do matter. Overall, the section has caused an unhealthy amount of anxiety."
And
"Talking about men's issues and masculinity is really important, and I will do so again in the future with a tighter edit. I agree the message is important. I ended up removing it partly because I am not dealing with the anxiety around it, and I want to be a positive space for people, and I am not sure that section quite lived up to that."
@@natalieshort2859 I think that is a good choice. it wasn't fitting in this video, but this truly deserves it's own video.
Or he's making people pay him to watch the full video on Nebula lol
The screaming scene recreation is chef’s kiss
1:57:19 "We had no idea what we were getting into" in a $1 billion show ... yeah, this does explain a lot.
I like to describe the show as people trying to make a cake, but they didn't have eggs or flour, if you have half of the ingredients you realistically shouldn't try and make the cake.
Hey… what happened to this video? Nebula no longer has it, and I see there are large chunks of it missing… is everything okay? 🥺
He went back and edited out parts calling other critics, that rip on how awful rings of power is, “woke bros”. Apparently he got a bit of backlash for, imho, a pretty ignorant and cringey take, so he just edited those parts out of the video.
Hope that helps!!
@@Exar_Kunhis take was excellent. It was showing empathy to huge collective of people more than criticizing, and it was acknowledging an important problem in media criticism.
As a fan of Tolkien and Halo, the past couple years have been really rough
Season 2 of Halo was at least a huge step up. Hopefully now that we have the Flood and we're on the Halo for S3 we can get on with it.
@@bartandaelus359 Maybe by S3 it'll be barely passable!
Just ignore it
One of my favourite lines in this travesty of a show is: "Humility has saved entire kingdoms. The proud have led all but to ruin." So many good single lines surrounded by countless bad ones.
It's also a pretty ironic one, isn't it?
It's a good line! Just sadly lost in the context that, at this point, Galadriel is being a hypocrite in saying it, so it rings a little hollow sadly. Would have been nice if they used it post-Adar scene.
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe Indeed. It would've been a lot more effettive if not delivered after the whole "There is a tempest in me!" Fiasco.
Ironic considering the show is a vanity project in of itself.
Ain't this an appropriate quote.
Hey, I come from one of the "woke bros" and heard about this video. But instead of judging based on the things I heard, I wanted to see the full context and make my own picture. If anyone has a link to any archive, I would very much appreciate an uncut/raw version of the video.
Your intro was funny 😂
I disagree about Random Film Talks and other creators you critic. Those people make not so different or even the same points as you.
4 hr video I’ll never be bored at work again!!!
Never be at work again*
The best defense of that non existent Tolkien quote I've heard is "well you can't prove he DIDN'T say it", and I was like "yeah buddy, good one, really outsmarted me here"
It was in Appendix BS...
"You can't prove I didn't say that."
-JRR Tolkien
Will you stop spoiling Bladerunner 2049, already? I am going to watch it any day now, I PROMISE!
What happened to the last hour and a half of the video?
Terra Nova, despite it's faults, was such a great premise and full of potential. So sad it got scrapped after only one season. There was definitely something wrong going on there behind the scenes, i mean sure the show had quite a bit of CGI In some episodes but there's no shot it was costing 10 million per episode or whatever number they were floating around as an explanation for cancelling it.
Yeah, it had a lot of potential; it is a shame what happened to it. Yet another on the long list of interesting shows that the fox network cancelled after only one season (with Firefly at the very top of the list).
I loved it so much 😅 i was so attached
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe Same!! It may have been cheesy but it had a certain something that i don't really find in shows today anymore. I can't really put it into words, maybe because English isn't my first language. It gave me the same type of feeling i got when watching shows in the 90s as a kid 😁
My god, somebody other than me remembers Terra Nova?
Terra Nova was such a joy, it has been so many years that I thought about it
I think the sobering thing to remember with the longest section at the end of this video for young people, is that you mustn't blockade yourself into the ideological echo chamber. As you build your worldview, who you are, and what you believe represents the truth most poignantly. That you remain challeneged by the whetstone of those you tangentally (but not wholly) agree with as a refinery of perspective. An echo chamber should give you anxiety. It certainly does me.
Say hello to your future, and God bless. Happy Easter. Thanks, Tim.
Happy Easter! As a note, many of the Catholic commentaries on Rings of Power were really insightful and brought some great perspective - critical from a very different lens.
~ Tim
It's not really though when he ignores so mich context and actual facts to make his butchered point.
@@UfoShotgun96oh stop it
@@SonOfHanni yeah why should you criticize anything right? Hellofutureme should really stop it too
Please, listen to what Buddy has to say about sharpening your mind on that whetstone and keeping yourself open! I have a few right wing friends (I lean pretty left politically) that I enjoy hanging with. We don't agree on all topics, but we know that we can come together and discuss in peace and have friendly conversations on those topics we do not agree on. We never scream, we always let the other finish talking and we always shake hands after we're done discussing. We love eachother as friends, we understand eachother as different political ideologists, and we respect eachother as people. I am more conscious of my faults and strengths now than I ever was before I met them! Stay sharp and be kind: it will get you far!
Where are the “woke bros” criticizing something that is objectively well made as “woke “…nobody is calling House of the Dragon woke for race swapping an entire family of characters because a) it’s appropriate to do so for in-universe reasons and b) It’s well written and well executed
I feel like people are trying to hide behind the bigotry/ism/ ist shield as a way of dodging criticism simply because they don’t like the politics of the critic.
HFM seems to actually agree that the show is poorly written - something that the “woke bros” have done as well.
I find it pretty funny how your first statement can just as well be read as you criticizing the woke bros
Why are wokebros never criticizing woke stuff in well written media?
I noticed that many shows/games that succeed and feature woke elements (arcane, HotD, BG3) are just not called woke, with people trying really hard to explain why it’s actually non-woke despite featuring all the elements (lgbtq representation, strong female leads, diversity, etc) they point out as woke in other media. Because if they acknowledge that the show is good and featured woke elements, that would mean that the woke elements themselves aren’t the reason for bad shows, but the writing and how these elements are incorporated. The slogan go woke go broke would fall flat if they started calling good shows woke
In the end, we all agree that we want media to be well written, and that’s also the point that HFM is making.
The thing that many people are annoyed by is, that there are people like shad that just go too far with seeing woke stuff everywhere and trying to cover up some actual bigotry with „nah it’s just about the bad writing trust me“. A good example is when shad criticized the last of us episode 3, comparing seeing a gay couple in a show to having to watch someone live out their foot fetish (even his comment section was criticizing him massively for the video), trying really hard to convince people it’s actually a badly written episode that shouldn’t have existed
It’s just really frustrating to sit through their reviews and they give you some actual bad writing arguments mixed with stuff like „look how gay Elrond looks, he’s such a femboy, they want to take away your masculine straight characters and turn everyone gay“ in a show that does not even feature a single gay character. I just can’t blame people for seeing bigotry when stuff like that is constantly in the mix of their videos
Shad also did call house of the dragon woke because of the abortion scenes if I remember correctly
As a massive House of the Dragon fan, I can assure you that an overall pretty small, but still not non-existent, and VERY vocal, online group of people did and still do criticize House of the Dragon and call it "woke" because of the race-swap, regardless of how much sense it did or didn't make, how well done it was, or the fact GRRM gave his blessing for the modification. I'm going to assume you just haven't seen them, but I can promise you, they're real...
Not saying anything about your point overall, this is just not a great example is all 🤷🏼♀️
@@rebelcenzo "people trying really hard to explain why it’s actually non-woke despite featuring all the elements" I think that's a matter of definition. Originally "woke" meant "aware of progressive ideals", but when used as a criticism it is instead used as "values political messaging over quality". By that newer definition, only bad things can ever be "woke".
"The slogan go woke go broke would fall flat" consequently also makes more sense with a definition where "woke" is necessarily "failure". What's important to keep in mind as well is that afaik the phrase originates from the comic book scene - where it is actually accurate. A number of comic lines was repeatedly cancelled and rebooted; of course the people that actually made the monetary loss were the retailers (rather than the publishers) that had bought comics in bulk and found it impossible to sell them.
"comparing seeing a gay couple in a show to having to watch someone live out their foot fetish" is truely an absurd statement; not least because by that logic the same would be true in reverse. Not to mention there isn't anything wrong with this thing that ... nobody is actually forced to watch? It's just arguing into empty air just to find something to complain about.
There's even a way to deal with that episode/ to talk about it that would have not been bigoted; I don't think there'd have been any issue had he just said "it made me uncomfortable, so I skipped it". Additionally extra stupid/ embarassing that Ep.3 of TLoU is commonly agreed to be the best one.
The thing about the original OP is that they're not completely wrong: there are people that use "you're just racist" as an actual deflection. Just the same as there are, as you pointed out, people that use "it's really bad" as a cover for their bigotry. I cannot help but remember both the "this is why I hate videogames - they appeal to the male fantasy" meme as well as the good old "I can't be racist, I have a black friend".
@@mayhemivory5730
I thought about that definition too, but given the public discourse it doesn’t really make sense since there are still debates online about „is BG3 woke“, when just by looking at it’s public success and praise of writing that would not be possible by that definition. It would also mean that wokeness wouldn’t be such a divisive topic, since I haven’t seen anyone argue that representation itself matters more than good writing or the quality of that representation. It would also fail to explain why the wokeness debate usually starts with release footage like pictures and trailers that don’t even give away if the media is well written or not, but just how certain characters look.
It would also make the slogan go woke go broke self-evident and therefore obsolete. It’s like saying „if you fail to make a good product, the product won’t be successful“, like yeah who would’ve thought?
It doesn’t help that many people are never really giving a clear definition, but instead presuppose that everyone knows what it means and what not. This vagueness is also the reason some just use „woke“ to express their aversion of inclusive media itself, while always having the plausible deniability to change the definition around as it suits them.
Considering your last point: I do get what the OP was trying to say, but HFM spent more than 2 hours talking about why the show isn’t good. His complaints in the wokebro section are not a defense of the show, but a critique of some of these reviewers and their practices.
I totally agree that if studios/fans use the racist/sexist card against the audience just because people didn’t like their media, it’s just a dumb excuse and no one should take that serious. But criticizing the wokebros isn’t a defense of bad media, just like the media being actually bad isn’t a defense of the wokebros
I just hope HFM will adress some of his points in a dedicated video, leave out some names like Platoon and focus on certain wokebro content in more detail instead of mixing them all together. That made it easier for people to dismiss the entire section or defend the entire crowd by just defending some of these guys
After watching Rings of Power I never went back to it. At first I thought it was just the length that was stopping me from rewatching but then I realized the extended editions are 3 hours longer and I’d watched those through at least 3 times since Rings of Power came out.
I grew up on an island and "the sea is always right" is so mind boggling, cause no seafarer would ever say that. The sea is cruel, unpredictable, it can provide bounty and misery, it will be calm one second, while in the next the waves smash your boat against the cliffs. People who are lost at sea die horrendously, for someone to almost disregard it by saying "well the sea is always right" would be quite dismissive and disrespectful and odd for a sea nation.
While you are absolutely right in what the sea means to the seafaring, I would say that to their credit you could also understand it in a way that rather means "The sea can do whatever she wants, you can't do anything about it." or "The sea's word (or action) is law"
Thats precisely what the quote is saying, you can't challenge the sea.
Man I hated that so much. Mostly because the idea of a national Mantra could be really cool! ThE SeA iS AlWayS RiGhT sounds lame, makes no sense and doesn't for Middle-Earth as we know it. But just workshop this idea a little: "Rise with the tide!" "The Sea Decides!"... And don't have a drill sargeant make his cadets say is. Make someone use it in normal conversation!
For what it's worth, Tolkien recognized and agreed with this. The Númenoreans loved and honoured Uinen, the maia of the sea because she could calm her wild husband Osse, who stirred the sea with waves and storms. Insofar that the Guild of Venturers who were responsible for exploring and colonizing Middle Earth were called the Uinendili, that is, Lovers of Uinen.
The fact that the writers probably didn't intend it be interpreted the way you describe, but that you did anyway, is indicative of the bad writing
I’m sorry but calling it a disappointment is a bit too generous
He do be polite like that.
It's not a disappointment, anyone who didn't expect it to suck is a fool.
He is trying to dissacociate from the anti woke crowd that despises it.
@@stormwarrior5362 I’m sorry I didn’t mean to sound rude
@@gussygamingprofessional6433 why not?
Random Film Talk doesn't belong on that little list of yours mate. And the fact that he's included just shows off your little need to push your own politics. You clearly don't watch his content or understand what he is even criticizing in your own example lol.
He does belong.
@@alex30425 Why
@@MistbornTaylorCrickets
@@mina319 and the section has been deleted so I guess we’ll never know :(
@@alex30425 Lol, even Hello Future Me disagrees with you. Get fucked.
Why isn't it 4h anymore? 🤔
Finally, something short and quick for me to watch while eating.
I being a really avid Tolkien fan really wanted Halbrand to be the witch king of angmar.....that wouldn't have violated the canon and sauron's mystery could have been left unsolved
There is a high chance he was Numenorean and adept at sorcery.
That was my hope too! Would've been such a good storyline and a cool foil to Aragorn's arc.
Same! Or the king from the Paths of the Dead.
That's what I was HOPING FOR. Can you imagine a slow burn plot with political intrigue and a slow descent into madness, being corrupted slowly by Sauron and the rings???? That would have been so fucking cool AND YET
Thats what i thought they were building towaeds lol
Passion > Corporate Interests. Always. Imagine if they’d given a billion dollars to a director and some writers that LOVED LOVED LOVED LoTR with all their heart and soul-people that not only *understood* the story, but have also felt what it’s like to have their whole being *resonate* with it.
Wouldn’t that be a sight…
Random film talk: is not political at all
He *absolutely* is political. Apparently he's just managed to do it in a way that you don't notice it.
The guy has made several nasty jokes directly aimed at refugees and immigrants, for example. In one video, he's talking about people being upset that hordes are swarming in and eating all the food. He then cuts to a picture of real-life refugees from the Middle-East (possibly Syrians) on a boat. That's some blatant dehumanizing bigotry.
@@Dyrnwynn I agree with you point also he talks without unfiltered at all in way I didn't know CZcams allowed it get uncomfortable a little but very entertaining videos in my opinion
This video was far more worth my time than Rings of Power 😭 felt like they were treating the audience as if they both did and didn't know the source material
The issue with the lines that aren’t bad is that most times they don’t make sense in context, or they’re also blatant lore contradictions like the scene with Durin and Durin. The showrunners just made up dwarven lore that is at complete odds with the dwarven lore Tolkien wrote and IS LITERALLY IN THE APPENDICES THEY HAVE THE RIGHTS TO.
It’s a good scene if it wasn’t in a Tolkien adaptation. And it also comes after a random scene where Durin, despite no prior evidence, goes off on his dad. Again, it’s a great scene with him and Elrond, but it arrives out of nowhere and the reasoning to not delve for Mithril is stupid, actually contrived, and at odds with the lore in the books they have access to
You definitely get to my main issue: most people defend the show saying "they don't have rights to The Silmarillion", but they literally told us which Appendices they were referencing & then they just didn't actually do it at all. This stuff IS in the Appendices & they DO have the rights to it.
@@Richard_Nickerson it’s absolutely baffling. There was plenty there to come up with a show that was faithful to the 2nd Age. It seems clear to me that they just didn’t want to make a Tolkien show but their own fantasy and had to do it under the pretense of Tolkien. That after hearing the interview clips from the showrunners in this video they just have no idea how to do what they claim to be doing.
@@Themiddleborne
Yes, they clearly wrote a Fantasy show, but couldn't sell it, so they turned it into a "LotR" show, and that got it done.
@@Themiddleborne
Exactly! What's so weird is I've seen multiple comments since the release of rings of powers saying it was good they went away from Tolkien and made their own....I read those and was just baffled by how they could say such idiotic statements. The whole point is to adapt Tolkien, not make some other fantasy.
The blatant and many needless lore contradictions did baffle me. So much was invented when they did not need to.
~ Tim
To call people like Drinker or Random Film Talk "grifters" is not only wrong, it's a bad faith portrayal of their reviews; Random Film Talk's 14-hour-long critique of Rings of Power was centered around it's failings as a TV show in and of itself.
Labeling the Drinker a "political grifter" is just fucking absurd. He gave the Daily Wire film "Lady Ballers" a NEGATIVE review, criticizing the company for focusing too much on their own anti-trans agenda rather than making good satire, mere weeks after being interviewed by Ben Shapiro. That's literally the opposite of grifting! Either you just didn't do the research HFM, or you are pushing you narrative or biases onto others. I am VERY disappointed in you, sir!
They are grifters.
I strongly disagree; being "anti-woke" does NOT automatically make people grifters. These CZcamsrs are not all in lockstep or agree with each other. Shad liked Avatar Way of Water, for instance, for it's pro-family themes. Little Platoon hated the movie. That's just one example I could give. Some of these people are conservative politically yes. but that doesn't automatically invalidate their criticisms.
People hated The Woman King, Netflix's Cleopatra and Ridley Scott's Napoleon because they were gross distortions of history which were openly done in order to push the film maker's own narrative. That was Despot's whole point; it had nothing to do with merely having "strong women" in the film(s). @@alex30425
@@thomasciuffreda8783they are and are trying to push their bullshit ideology to others.
@@alex30425
because woke death cultist aren't brainwashing children in schools, Right?
because every single movie or tv show doesn't shove down cultist propaganda down your throat?
Yeah, and see his reviews of shows like Arcane. The accusations against him in this video are really unfair.
I remember saying something on a forum I go to regarding the whole 'Who is Sauron??' thing. He is a hook meant to bait the audience, rather than a question any of the characters actually ask at any point, because the writers prefer to fish for the spectacle of excited youtubers with big arrows in their thumbnails, rather than substance.
He is, in essence, the Supreme Leader Snoke of the show.
(And if the above statement shocks and disgusts you, don't panic! It is an indication that you are still sane.)
"Do you believe it?"
"Eh."
"Do you believe it?"
"Eh." (But the music swells to drown out the lacklustre response.)
Yep!! that’s why The treatment and compensation of background actors was front and centre in the sag-aftra strike. It can kill whole plot lines and emotional beats.
Just like Tolkien, I am Catholic, and sometimes, when I want good reviews that touch on moral/religious themes, I go to DecentFilms, which is a site, not a YT channel, ran by a Catholic deacon.
I have not read his review of Rings of Power, since I haven't watched the show myself, but after your video, I skimmed it, and it seems his conclusion for Rings of Power is quite similar to yours. That it was promising, but it ended with a whimper rather than a bang, and that it still has hope for the future. He also acknowledges the possibility that the Orcs could have redemption in this version. "I don’t love it, but I enjoy it. In this sub-sub-creation is a real reflection of Middle-earth that I’m glad for having experienced, and I continue to be open to what the storytellers are trying to do."
Might consider watching the show now...
Tolkiem holds a really valuable place in Catholic circles for obvious reasons, and actually, I found Catholic critiques ans responses to the series really amazing. They bring a real nuance from another worldview.
~ Tim
I have been a fan of your channel for around five years now, you helped inspire and shape me to become a writer. Whilst I have/do watch some of the channels you do criticize, I do so because underneath the anger and jokes they have fair points and are experts in their knowledge. I also listen to folks on the other side and use that to formulate my own opinion. Criticism is valid, regardless of the source. I will admit it does hurt to hear your thoughts on channels like drinker, shad, and AZ but I know I have to do so because it would be unfair to just turn it off and pretend I didn't see it. A for sure seems to farm on the hate and Shad seems a bit closed minded but aren't we all to some degree? I see where you are coming from but I disagree with some of your takes as it seems a bit disengenuous and implying bisexuality or being gay with these guys seems uncalled for. Regardless, I will watch your channel as I value diversity of thought and we may not all agree but we all have hearts that beat as one.
Maybe one day you could hop on a podcast with them as they are more than willing to speak with other folks they may not align 100% with. It would allow them to articulate their views to you and vice versa.
All in all, you are an inspiration to me and I hope one day you will read my book once it is done. The goal is for it to be a loveletter to Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, Paolini, and Sapkowski. To create a saga for my generation.
I agree with most of this video, but the whole “woke bros” segment is not only ridiculous but frankly hypocritical.
Genuine question, could you elaborate on the hypocrisy? Are you saying HFM's critique is on par with any other "Woke Bro" so to call them out is hypocrisy? Are you saying HFM is critiqueing them from the other end of the political spectrum instead of being a neutral party? Please share!
@@eyjay1508 precisely the point people here seem to conveniently looking over
@@eyjay1508100%. The folks in question hardly talk about their politics. They talk about the politics of Hollywood and how it impacts the audience.
@@greyknight627Those people talking about politics all the time.What are you talking about.
Film makers insert politics into film.
Woke bro's point out the inserting of politics.
Tim accuses the woke bros of inserting politics.
The the classic its ok to do it, but not point it out/ its ok when we do it hypocracy.