It's the thought process that a lot of people follow. If you're a tradesman, or have a job that involves planning stuff out then you think out the order that the tasks need to be in, which is why we have first fix, second fix and so on. But, if you're someone who isn't inclined to think that way and plan it, you end up with this situation. They'll have picked out the bathroom they want and had that done, then later they think "I want a shaver socket", so it's remedial work or a fudge to get it in. Then they think "I love these lights, I'll buy them and get the sparky in to fit them", more remedial work or another fudge to get them in. Best one I heard was a customer asking the plumber for a quote for underfloor heating in their kitchen AFTER the tiler had laid a very expensive tiled floor. Assumed the plumber would find some way to fit it that didn't involved digging up the expensive floor.
Hi Del does that bathroom mirror have a light? If it does you can get integrated bathroom mirror light with a shaver socket. If not because the wall has a cavity you should have no problem marking out the drywall back box and cutting the tiles using an angle grinder and doing as you say come of from the flex outlet from the heated towel radiator fishing the cable in behind the tiles. Love the videos mate, keep up the good work 👍🏻
My thoughts exactly. Looks like the mirror stands off the wall on a gear tray , just swap it over for mirror with shaver point . Sure Del would have checked that though.
Would have personally drilled the tile with a diamond tipped drill bit and have concerns how long that sticky back trunking will last in bathroom. Great vid as always though Del just gotta improvise with what we're given sometimes
He did say near the end of the vid that he used no nails with sticky back tape for the trunking, so even if sticky back lost its adhesiveness over time then should still hold well.
I think he just didn't want to do any permanent damage to their brand new bathroom. You can clean of glue, and can regrout if needed. Very hard to hide a drill hole in a tile.
put some masking tape on the tile before you drill, so the tip wont walk. Most regular carbide tipped concrete bits will cut tile, just dont use the hammer setting :)
Invest in tile cutting drill bits. Drills through tiles with ease with out cracking the tile. The right tool for the the right job will always work, also the shaver plug is too close to water distribution. That's a health and safety hazard.
Why not multi tool out the back of the existing back box giving you access to the cavity, cut the tile with an angle grinder fit in another box and you'd easily fish a cable in the cavity between the 2 back boxs. Even if you broke the Rad back box you'd still be able to fit a new one if u had to trim a bit of the tile with a grinder
Thought the same. A dremmell type tool to cut the tile for a fast fix box if cavity. Done it before in a kitchen for extra socket worked a treat. Surface box and trunk in a new bathroom is sacrilege 🤦♂️ Nothing against del he's a competent spark but there are other wizardry options
@@coralbay00 +1 Small cutting disc in a Dremel can cut glass. Easy to cut a small square hole in a tile. Then find a car thief who's good with a coat hanger to pull a wire through :-) If you can't get the wire through then you can cover the hole with the shaver point and revert to trunking.
Is the mirror an electric one, looks like it might be? If so, an alternative mirror with shaver socket built in the side would have been the perfect solution! Not a fan of the surface wiring but you didn’t have much choice eh…..customers eh 🙄
It doesn’t look pretty but I don’t think it contravenes any regs as long as the manufacturers instructions are followed. I would have refused to put it there myself but that’s only me. Good vid by a good honest spark. 👍🏻
This is the first job you’ve done that I think is a bit controversial. I’m no hater and you are trying your best for the client, I’m just not sure putting the shaver there is a good solution. I think I would have said no to that installation. Sorry Del
@@eliotmansfield it shouldn't do. We have immersion heaters where the elements is submerged in water, electric showers etc. IP ratings and in this case galvanic isolation perform all the risk reduction necessary
@@stepbackandthink Shaver socket has transformer isolation. You can't get a shock from it unless you somehow get across both the live and neutral, and it is at a reduced voltage. A switch does not have isolation so you can get a 220v shock.
Should have drilled sideways behind the heated towel rail box (use a 6mm guiding masonry bit then step up to 12mm) that way you can feed your cable behind the tile into vanity cupboard then do the same from shaver point down into cupboard. Trunking looks shite.
And risk smashing his new tiles? Then having to replace said tiles and fit the shaver plug anyway? May as well just remove the tiles. The words are.. Cost effective.
I've done heaps, smashed zero tiles. It's not hard, confidence and a small pilot hole are key. Not knocking his work, it just makes no sense doing surface work on finished tiles that takes longer, uses more parts and therefore costs more.
Use a 6mm SDS drill bit and drill on reverse with no hammer to get through the face of the tile without cracking before reverting back. Depending on the tile you can even go on hammer and go slow once you're a couple of mm into the tile, just gotta feel it. No need to glue a surface box
even better been using bosch blue twist bit for years as a sparky not broken 1 tile and don't use the tile bits they are expensive and wear out quickly chap
I’m shocked you’ve never heard of a tile drill bit. You could have easily fished a cable to a more desirable place and fitted a flush shaver point. If you need a electrician mate to help you, let me know. I’ve just completed my Level 2.
I was thinking exactly the same. It really isn’t any problem installing a flush mounted socket. But having an electrical outlet that close to a water outlet is a big no no. I have noticed that in England there is a lot of very dangerous instalations that are allowed.
Nice one Delroy. That was a lot of hassle when there is an incredibly simple solution... I don’t have a shaver socket but charge my toothbrush in the kitchen using a £1 shaver socket adaptor! Presuming the towel rail has to be switched on at the FCU to power up the shaver socket? 🤔 Not sure I’d want to leave that on all night! 😂 Anyway. Top job Del. You did what the customer asked you to. Keep up the great work.
It’s such a shame that customers don’t think about bits like that before they have all the nice tiling. Although you did a good job, it doesn’t look as good as if the wires were run behind the plaster board and the socket was mounted flush to the wall.
defo,,, it's the customer who has to live with his own cock up now serve's him right ? he should have got del in well before it was tiled to do his bit i.e fist fix
I worked at a school that was being built. The tiler finished a cleaning room and had to move the bundle of network cables out of the way to tile the floor and walls. Oddly enough the tiles had to be smashed and new ones ordered from Italy which took 6 weeks.
Can I ask you a question? How you installed in a Special location as a shower room the part p regulation should not to install any sockets with zoon 1+2 and you just installed 3 sm above the basin ?
You made the connection to the old box by going in through the top. Wouldn't it be better to go in through the bottom, so that if there is any water draining down the wall surface, it will drain away, rather than somehow getting in by that possible leak in the top edge? Ditto, better to connect to the shaver socket on its lower edge. As a precaution, drill a small drain hole at the bottom of the vertical conduit, to allow any water that may gain ingress to drain away.
I think this would have looked way neater too, you could offset the shaver point to the side of the sink, pop the trunking dead centre to that up through the bottom
Why would you glue that socket on? Could have used diamond drill bit (6mm) and used green plugs or anchors… I’d never glue a GPO on. Also why did you use trunking? Why not just drill/grind out and come from back of the socket into new PowerPoint?
@@JayTheSparky I know wireless technology is good nowadays. But not that good where a domestic socket can work without cable to it. Am glad am away from domestic electrical work and stupid customers.
@@chrismaplethorpe6781 Yeah it’s mind boggling, have had my fair share of those that seem to think you just cut out a socket and a cable is already there..,damage? But I’ve just decorated 🙄🤣Hope you kept his number haha
I know its totally against UK regs but when my bathroom was re done I ran a cable to the under sink cupboard of a switched/fuse spur that powers the underfloor heating and added a double socket, been in 10 years and nobody has died, toothbrush/shaver etc charged easily.
Could you not have put a single-gang shaver transformer socket in place of the blanking plate? Extend the box like you did, then put the shaver socket there. It'd be further away from the wet area, and would mean you're not running stick-on trunking on the tile wall.
Yes del I would take a chance use diamond disc angle grind the tile for a 32 mm single metal back box then take the cable from towel rad better job but has to be worth the money mate any way u doing a good job mate
Interesting what are the regs there? Here in the US required to have one within 3 ft of sink and GFCI. Interesting how differently wiring is done around the world.
Definitely a case of making the best of a bad job. My only thought is, seeing as you were mounting a surface box anyway, would it not have been possible to put the replace the towel rail connector with the shaver box then punch the towel rail cable in through the bottom and then out through the back into the wall? That said, I'm no electrician, so there are probably issues with that approach.
Isnt the charger socket too close to water source? I went for a mirror which had a power cable behind it. The mirror has a demister and 2x shaving/brush charging points as well as digital clock behind the mirror effect. Work brilliantly and saves all this faffing you had to do.
I'm in the USA watching your videos. My question is: Does the English/British electrical code mandate a minimum distance from sink/water to receptacle/outlet? That shaver unit you installed seems rather close to the sink.
Electrical shaver points must be a safe distance (in meters) from the bath or shower to avoid splashes. This would appear ok (video). I'm not qualified electrician, so my words could be void :D.
@@focusmicro In the USA the (national electrical code) NEC mandates a minimum distance of 3 feet from receptacle to sink. I'm not an electrician either, just a Do-It-Myselfer who loves the profession.
@@elgranjero2284 Probably an IP rated socket. Plus the UK has requirements for earth-leakage detectors on everything now (or so I've heard from sparkies). Just a do-it-yourselfer here too, from Australia. There really needs to be a standard for LV wiring for bathroom equipment (like a 12v 5A line or something), I have three wallwarts and a mains powered flosser in mine. SMH
@@ConstantlyDamaged I believe they are so big and heavy as they have an isolation transformer tapped for 110 and 240 with the 240 being a 1:1 winding. No reference to ground that way so you can only get a shock if you put your fingers in both holes. Or something like that.
What was through the wall? If it was a timber frame wall with gib, I would have drilled through the wall , 1 hole in existing socket, 1 hole where you want new socket and then run cable through the wall so no need for conduit and would be tidy, but of course need to repair gib on other side of wall...but alot easier than taking tiles off etc..
I agree that a surface box is probably best in that situation, to avoid the risk of cracking tiles. But I’d have put the box down near the radiator point, and then just used a short length of white flex to the socket, to match the radiator. Avoids all that trunking, which will trap water and gunk and go horrible. Also, you can get really sticky 3M adhesive pads, which you can use for holding stuff while adhesive sets, I’ve used them to hold boxes on tiles while Sikaflex cures.
am 6ft 1 one i would have to just to have a poop sit side way's on the loo what a nightmare i would rather go over the road to my local for a poop & a pint
Cowboy did work in my MiL kitchen. Complete refit, new worktops, units, tiling, etc. Even did some electrical work. Medium sized L shape kitchen with only 2 sockets in the corner of the L. MiL is late 60s so she's none the wiser. Builder couldn't be bothered to suggest installing new sockets on either end and fit on/off switches for the extractor. So extractor is wired directly into the circuit, no sockets, just straight into the electrical circuit, so there's no way to turn the power off. You'll need to turn power of mains and disconnected or cut the wires.
I came back from holiday, went to MIL house and saw the work.. too late, wall completely tiled up. So the kettle, toaster, microwave, phones, radio all crammed into 1 double socket. If she gets the blender or food processor out she has to disconnect an appliance.
Here in the U.S putting an outlet by water is perfectly fine as long as it’s the correct outlet, I’m trying to understand if the areas all of you are from don’t have outlets that automatically trip in presence of moisture and are also resettable from a button on the outlet without having to go to main breaker
Del, NEVER drill in between the tiles, sure way to split or chip the tiles. Drilling tile is real easy. masonry bit but turn off the hammer action. Under no circumstances have the drill on hammer, that will smash the tile. You use a masonry bit and slowly grind through the tile. Also, you should honestly carry a few sizes in a diamond bit what should be faster. No nails is shite, don't use them, it never lasts for stuff like that. Fix ALL Crystal by Soudal is a thousand times better works underwater too, so ideal for the bathroom. If you ever have a dodgy seal on anything that's the stuff that will fix it long term and will adhere to shiny surfaces like tile, stay away from no nails and silicone.
Shavers can be in zone 2 provided that shower splashes is unlikely and comply with manufacturers instructions. In regards to the sink, there isn't actually a zoning issue in bs7671 part 7, however, under part 5 there is a mutual and detrimental influences of non electrical services to consider, in this case the sink where water splashes can occur plus manufacturers instructions to consider in regards to the environment it is in.
So annoying when you finish a tiling job and the customer asks for shit like this. i feel your pain. Customer recently asked me to fit his new heated bathroom mirror, After i had tiled the place.....
If anybody is wondering about the zones and ip ratings, theres no problem with this installation. That shower doesnt create zone for that point since it isnt open and sink/toilet doesnt have zones, so theres no ip requirements.
Fiddly job and then they go "HOW MUCH!?!" - more time than materials. In NZ many electricians don't want to wire anything up in bathrooms any more - cost and complexity of putting in extra breakers, potential for water leaks etc (at least that was their reasoning in our home)...
Also I know this Vid is a bit old the fix is decent but the most professional way would have been to just use the ceiling to run down the wall and cut box out of tile to pull wire through .. which is probably what they did for the other electrical panel that was used as the extension point
I’m thinking no nails, will look like toe nails after some time, proper white sanitary sealant that’ll resist mould would be better for sealing the edges of the trunking. just my thoughts
You should have just used a Schneider backbox break out extension collar and cut a notch in the bottom. To bring out that wire to the shaver socket. You just fill the surrounding gap with filler. Was there no way of bringing the cable from the rear?
I notice that socket says shaver and toothbrush which is interesting. I just moved into a new build that has a shaver socket (no toothbrush symbol) and was told not to plug toothbrush into it. Anyone know what the reason is for this? whats the difference between just shaver socket and a shaver/toothbrush socket?
nothing I would have thought. Was it the sales office guy who did your handover? They are always clueless. Mine told me it was cheaper to heat the house to a constant temperature 24/7 than programme it to warm up when I come home from work- a nonsense theory long since disproven.
I did some research and apparently the sockets are only supposed to be used for short duration of time, so if you leave a toothbrush plugged in long term it can over heat and get damaged.
The transformers heat up over time, even when there’s no load attached. If run for extended periods, it can cause the plastic faceplate to eventually crack. To avoid this, the cheaper shaver-only sockets mechanically disconnect the transformer from live feed when there is no cable plugged in. That doesn’t help if you leave your toothbrush (or battery shaver) charger connected 24/7. The more expensive toothbrush-compatible sockets also have a thermostat that disconnects live when the socket warms up, to avoid overheating. That’s the explanation I heard anyway.
@@gadgetman36 I didn't say you can't do it, I was explaining why it may not be a good idea. More discussion at community.screwfix.com/threads/toothbrush-shaver-socket.191105/ for anyone interested.
Break out old dry lining box, drill 20mm hole in tile somewhere above for your surface box, fish up and then install new dry lining box so it’s lipped over the tile. Preferably knock in the box to the tile with grinder
Most shaver sockets use an isolating transformer which creates electical seperation so they can be installed in zone 2. Those which don't use a transformer can't be used in bathrooms at all I don't think.
Hello del Are you concerned about the possibility of water ingress an the distance between the bason and the electrics. Are their any rules in the regulations on the distance between electrics and water? Especially in kitchens as I've see plug outlets very close to taps and the metal draining for sinks, so you have an hopfully earthen sink with water makes a good circuit but not for the human body? I am in electronics and have positioned all electrics over a sreatched hand to hand width in my kitchen its 2 meters, but I would have thought at least 1 meter. Have no points in my bathroom and light switches are eithe pull or on the wall outside the bath room. Also glueing the surface box to the shiny tiles in time I think it will fall off eventually. You have changed the way you are doing the job while I was writing this. Love you attitude to your job would be great working with you, say as an apprentice, you'd make a good trainer. Thanks for your video
www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/shaver-point.htm It says zones 2 or 3 but it also says 240v should never be near water. That towel rail feed measured 240v. I'm confused.
There isn't a zone for sinks, zone 3 also doesn't exist anymore. The shaver socket is fine as long as it is clear of splashing water/ damage. The towel rail supply isn't in any zone and as long as it is 150mm or more from the water pipes then its fine
I'd have stuck the big box for the shaver socket over the single backbox/faceplate and just left it there. No need for trunking, keeps it further away from the sink (risk of electrocution) and provide a neater solution
Lots of different ways of skinning this cat. How about running t1 directly behind the rad rail going vertical and fixing the shaver along the side of the trunking personally i think it would have looked better the trunking would have not been as visible. As I said cat skinning tricky job though.
I’m a plumber putting right some other complete muppets work as he was kicked off,one main bathroom and two en suites tiled floor to ceiling with NO waste for the basins put in😫😫
just charge the tooth brush in another room , simple solution.
ditto i do far much cheaper & easier
Exactly - only needs charging once a week anyway.
It's the thought process that a lot of people follow. If you're a tradesman, or have a job that involves planning stuff out then you think out the order that the tasks need to be in, which is why we have first fix, second fix and so on.
But, if you're someone who isn't inclined to think that way and plan it, you end up with this situation. They'll have picked out the bathroom they want and had that done, then later they think "I want a shaver socket", so it's remedial work or a fudge to get it in. Then they think "I love these lights, I'll buy them and get the sparky in to fit them", more remedial work or another fudge to get them in.
Best one I heard was a customer asking the plumber for a quote for underfloor heating in their kitchen AFTER the tiler had laid a very expensive tiled floor. Assumed the plumber would find some way to fit it that didn't involved digging up the expensive floor.
Hi Del does that bathroom mirror have a light? If it does you can get integrated bathroom mirror light with a shaver socket. If not because the wall has a cavity you should have no problem marking out the drywall back box and cutting the tiles using an angle grinder and doing as you say come of from the flex outlet from the heated towel radiator fishing the cable in behind the tiles.
Love the videos mate, keep up the good work 👍🏻
My thoughts exactly. Looks like the mirror stands off the wall on a gear tray , just swap it over for mirror with shaver point . Sure Del would have checked that though.
Would have personally drilled the tile with a diamond tipped drill bit and have concerns how long that sticky back trunking will last in bathroom. Great vid as always though Del just gotta improvise with what we're given sometimes
He did say near the end of the vid that he used no nails with sticky back tape for the trunking, so even if sticky back lost its adhesiveness over time then should still hold well.
You need to invest in tile drillbits, always drill through tiles saves time
Rather than the glue? Or you'd have fed a cable behind the tile as well?
I think he just didn't want to do any permanent damage to their brand new bathroom. You can clean of glue, and can regrout if needed. Very hard to hide a drill hole in a tile.
put some masking tape on the tile before you drill, so the tip wont walk. Most regular carbide tipped concrete bits will cut tile, just dont use the hammer setting :)
Invest in tile cutting drill bits. Drills through tiles with ease with out cracking the tile. The right tool for the the right job will always work, also the shaver plug is too close to water distribution. That's a health and safety hazard.
Why not multi tool out the back of the existing back box giving you access to the cavity, cut the tile with an angle grinder fit in another box and you'd easily fish a cable in the cavity between the 2 back boxs. Even if you broke the Rad back box you'd still be able to fit a new one if u had to trim a bit of the tile with a grinder
Thought the same. A dremmell type tool to cut the tile for a fast fix box if cavity. Done it before in a kitchen for extra socket worked a treat. Surface box and trunk in a new bathroom is sacrilege 🤦♂️
Nothing against del he's a competent spark but there are other wizardry options
@@coralbay00 +1 Small cutting disc in a Dremel can cut glass. Easy to cut a small square hole in a tile. Then find a car thief who's good with a coat hanger to pull a wire through :-) If you can't get the wire through then you can cover the hole with the shaver point and revert to trunking.
@@coralbay00 Thought the same. Dremel tools are very handy for this type of thing.
You angle ground out the tile, cut out the plasterboard and found a metal stud with a 15mm copper pipe running down beside the stud?
What now lol?
@@laidbackmedia You throw your metal detector in the bin cause it ain't working :-)
Is the mirror an electric one, looks like it might be?
If so, an alternative mirror with shaver socket built in the side would have been the perfect solution!
Not a fan of the surface wiring but you didn’t have much choice eh…..customers eh 🙄
It doesn’t look pretty but I don’t think it contravenes any regs as long as the manufacturers instructions are followed. I would have refused to put it there myself but that’s only me. Good vid by a good honest spark. 👍🏻
exactly what i wrote Darren no way not for all the beer i could drink for the rest of my life
This is the first job you’ve done that I think is a bit controversial. I’m no hater and you are trying your best for the client, I’m just not sure putting the shaver there is a good solution. I think I would have said no to that installation. Sorry Del
No contravention of any regulations here, so there's nothing controversial.
feels wrong having mains electric so close to that sink
@@eliotmansfield it shouldn't do. We have immersion heaters where the elements is submerged in water, electric showers etc. IP ratings and in this case galvanic isolation perform all the risk reduction necessary
What really pisses me off is sparkies that will do this but then flat refuse to put a light switch in.
@@stepbackandthink Shaver socket has transformer isolation. You can't get a shock from it unless you somehow get across both the live and neutral, and it is at a reduced voltage. A switch does not have isolation so you can get a 220v shock.
Glad I stumbled on you. Really enjoying your vids, keep them up! Have subbed!!
As an old spark I'm really enjoying your videos.. great job
It’s a special client when they actually move their stuff out of the way before you arrive
Bosch multi construction drill bits (the blue ones) fly through tiles no problem at all 👌🏼
Not that it matters you fixed the box in the end anyway
Might try some of these. Any good on thick tiles?
@@JD-gi9pl they fly through tiles unless it’s real porcelain tiles then you’ll definitely need real tile bits
@@Cablesmith I'll try some 👍 I had some evil 10mm tiles that cost me a fortune in bits a while back
Yea but not for porcelain
Diamond hole saw for porcelain 😊
Should have drilled sideways behind the heated towel rail box (use a 6mm guiding masonry bit then step up to 12mm) that way you can feed your cable behind the tile into vanity cupboard then do the same from shaver point down into cupboard.
Trunking looks shite.
I’m sure he knows what he’s doing
And risk smashing his new tiles? Then having to replace said tiles and fit the shaver plug anyway? May as well just remove the tiles. The words are.. Cost effective.
I've done heaps, smashed zero tiles. It's not hard, confidence and a small pilot hole are key. Not knocking his work, it just makes no sense doing surface work on finished tiles that takes longer, uses more parts and therefore costs more.
Use a 6mm SDS drill bit and drill on reverse with no hammer to get through the face of the tile without cracking before reverting back. Depending on the tile you can even go on hammer and go slow once you're a couple of mm into the tile, just gotta feel it. No need to glue a surface box
even better been using bosch blue twist bit for years as a sparky not broken 1 tile and don't use the tile bits they are expensive and wear out quickly chap
Common sense option would be to charge the toothbrush or shaver in another room.....
Common sense and customers together in the same universe ?
Common sense is not so common nowadays lol
Or go manual 🤓
And imagine the faecal bacteria all over that brush head in such a small shower room! Rank!
@@JeeSingh21 helps build the old immune system!
Rolling through Waltham Forest to Hackney 👌🏽, yes Del
Delroy you must be the most customer accommodating sparkle in the U.K.👍
I’m shocked you’ve never heard of a tile drill bit. You could have easily fished a cable to a more desirable place and fitted a flush shaver point. If you need a electrician mate to help you, let me know. I’ve just completed my Level 2.
I was thinking exactly the same. It really isn’t any problem installing a flush mounted socket. But having an electrical outlet that close to a water outlet is a big no no. I have noticed that in England there is a lot of very dangerous instalations that are allowed.
Why couldn’t you cut the tiles so that you could get the box out?
That insatllation would never have been certified here.
Nice one Delroy. That was a lot of hassle when there is an incredibly simple solution... I don’t have a shaver socket but charge my toothbrush in the kitchen using a £1 shaver socket adaptor!
Presuming the towel rail has to be switched on at the FCU to power up the shaver socket? 🤔 Not sure I’d want to leave that on all night! 😂
Anyway. Top job Del. You did what the customer asked you to. Keep up the great work.
Or even better cut the crappy shaver plug off and fit a normal plug
that's where i charge mine also my shaver & mine tooth brush have done for years
Grind out the tile in place for the box to fit in. We're asked to do this all the time it's a bit dusty but takes 5 minutes (I'm a tiler)
proper job
@@bramcoteelectrical1088 Cornish
Stanley knife through the edges of the box not an option?it's only 2mm thick
Dewalt now do an 18volt magic wand. Ideal for them customers that want the impossible an a budget 🤩
I got to use that line
Hitachi do a mains powered one
Got a link?
🤣
@@TheRasteri lmao
Lol
It’s such a shame that customers don’t think about bits like that before they have all the nice tiling. Although you did a good job, it doesn’t look as good as if the wires were run behind the plaster board and the socket was mounted flush to the wall.
defo,,, it's the customer who has to live with his own cock up now serve's him right ? he should have got del in well before it was tiled to do his bit i.e fist fix
I worked at a school that was being built. The tiler finished a cleaning room and had to move the bundle of network cables out of the way to tile the floor and walls.
Oddly enough the tiles had to be smashed and new ones ordered from Italy which took 6 weeks.
If no stud to the right of that box could have drilled a large hole in the tiles and fished a cable behind into the fast fix or go behind?
I'm pretty sure there'll be a stud to right, to help bear the weight of that towel rack
Can I ask you a question?
How you installed in a Special location as a shower room the part p regulation should not to install any sockets with zoon 1+2 and you just installed 3 sm above the basin ?
Shaver sockets have an isolation transformer so are excluded from that limitation. Its certainly not recommended however.
You made the connection to the old box by going in through the top. Wouldn't it be better to go in through the bottom, so that if there is any water draining down the wall surface, it will drain away, rather than somehow getting in by that possible leak in the top edge? Ditto, better to connect to the shaver socket on its lower edge. As a precaution, drill a small drain hole at the bottom of the vertical conduit, to allow any water that may gain ingress to drain away.
I think this would have looked way neater too, you could offset the shaver point to the side of the sink, pop the trunking dead centre to that up through the bottom
A very neat job and I’m sure a happy customer as well
Why would you glue that socket on? Could have used diamond drill bit (6mm) and used green plugs or anchors… I’d never glue a GPO on. Also why did you use trunking? Why not just drill/grind out and come from back of the socket into new PowerPoint?
Hi My Brother fellow Electrician. I have started in May 1978 in Republic of Trinidad. I live in U.S.. I member of IBEW it Union for electricians.
Thanks for sharing Del! Proper pain the arse job but found a solution for the cust 👌
@@roydowling2542 ahh, the annoying, attention craving know it all. There's always one 😅
@@roydowling2542 how would you of gone about it ?
@@roydowling2542 All well and good provided you don't hit any noggins or battons or a big chunk of dab
@@TheGorillahands Not to bleeding mention any water or heating pipes!
Love from Trinidad bro
Very nicely done bathroom.
Have had similar on kitchens where have gone to fit extra sockets. Some must think that you screw a switch, socket etc to the wall and that's it.
Some clients definitely think like this!
@@JayTheSparky I know wireless technology is good nowadays. But not that good where a domestic socket can work without cable to it. Am glad am away from domestic electrical work and stupid customers.
@@chrismaplethorpe6781 Yeah it’s mind boggling, have had my fair share of those that seem to think you just cut out a socket and a cable is already there..,damage? But I’ve just decorated 🙄🤣Hope you kept his number haha
You can drill a tile with a standard masonry bit with the drill on normal (not hammer).
Just grind through the tile.
Maybe could have run trunking to the cabinet, then put a back box in the side of the cupboard?
My thoughts exactly, there was no need for it to be on the wall!
I know its totally against UK regs but when my bathroom was re done I ran a cable to the under sink cupboard of a switched/fuse spur that powers the underfloor heating and added a double socket, been in 10 years and nobody has died, toothbrush/shaver etc charged easily.
Just subscribed, very entertaining channel!
Could you not have put a single-gang shaver transformer socket in place of the blanking plate? Extend the box like you did, then put the shaver socket there. It'd be further away from the wet area, and would mean you're not running stick-on trunking on the tile wall.
It's not a blanking plate is a 20a outlet plate for the towel rail
who does the embroidery on your jacket? I can never find a good quality embroidery company to do our workwear, yours looks spot on
Yes del I would take a chance use diamond disc angle grind the tile for a 32 mm single metal back box then take the cable from towel rad better job but has to be worth the money mate any way u doing a good job mate
its not as easy as it sounds , If he fucks up the cut they will need to get a tiller to get it fixed . I know because i done it :((
How are you going to fit a 32mm galv box into a stud and plasterboard wall?
owey, that wouldn't pass here, has to be a fair way away from any sink, and miles away from any shower
@Tom Jolly yup, is electric.
Interesting what are the regs there? Here in the US required to have one within 3 ft of sink and GFCI. Interesting how differently wiring is done around the world.
Great job mate
Definitely a case of making the best of a bad job. My only thought is, seeing as you were mounting a surface box anyway, would it not have been possible to put the replace the towel rail connector with the shaver box then punch the towel rail cable in through the bottom and then out through the back into the wall? That said, I'm no electrician, so there are probably issues with that approach.
Isnt the charger socket too close to water source?
I went for a mirror which had a power cable behind it. The mirror has a demister and 2x shaving/brush charging points as well as digital clock behind the mirror effect. Work brilliantly and saves all this faffing you had to do.
Its a selv circuit.
Looks awful, I'd personal just charge it in my bedroom and save the money
Literally 5ft away 🤣
I'm in the USA watching your videos. My question is: Does the English/British electrical code mandate a minimum distance from sink/water to receptacle/outlet? That shaver unit you installed seems rather close to the sink.
Electrical shaver points must be a safe distance (in meters) from the bath or shower to avoid splashes. This would appear ok (video). I'm not qualified electrician, so my words could be void :D.
@@focusmicro In the USA the (national electrical code) NEC mandates a minimum distance of 3 feet from receptacle to sink. I'm not an electrician either, just a Do-It-Myselfer who loves the profession.
@@elgranjero2284 Probably an IP rated socket. Plus the UK has requirements for earth-leakage detectors on everything now (or so I've heard from sparkies).
Just a do-it-yourselfer here too, from Australia. There really needs to be a standard for LV wiring for bathroom equipment (like a 12v 5A line or something), I have three wallwarts and a mains powered flosser in mine. SMH
@@ConstantlyDamaged I believe they are so big and heavy as they have an isolation transformer tapped for 110 and 240 with the 240 being a 1:1 winding. No reference to ground that way so you can only get a shock if you put your fingers in both holes. Or something like that.
Wouldn’t it be possible to run the cable into the cupboard ? And have the shaver/ T brush point in there?
What kind of maniac tiles the box in?
Think it looks naff to honest but i guess customer is always right
What was through the wall? If it was a timber frame wall with gib, I would have drilled through the wall , 1 hole in existing socket, 1 hole where you want new socket and then run cable through the wall so no need for conduit and would be tidy, but of course need to repair gib on other side of wall...but alot easier than taking tiles off etc..
I agree that a surface box is probably best in that situation, to avoid the risk of cracking tiles. But I’d have put the box down near the radiator point, and then just used a short length of white flex to the socket, to match the radiator. Avoids all that trunking, which will trap water and gunk and go horrible.
Also, you can get really sticky 3M adhesive pads, which you can use for holding stuff while adhesive sets, I’ve used them to hold boxes on tiles while Sikaflex cures.
I would multi tool that back box out! New one in. Drilled the tiles if there done properly they won’t break run wire down.
The real question here is how anyone is supposed to sit on that toilet without kneecapping themselves on that vanity.
am 6ft 1 one i would have to just to have a poop sit side way's on the loo what a nightmare i would rather go over the road to my local for a poop & a pint
Cowboy did work in my MiL kitchen.
Complete refit, new worktops, units, tiling, etc. Even did some electrical work. Medium sized L shape kitchen with only 2 sockets in the corner of the L.
MiL is late 60s so she's none the wiser. Builder couldn't be bothered to suggest installing new sockets on either end and fit on/off switches for the extractor. So extractor is wired directly into the circuit, no sockets, just straight into the electrical circuit, so there's no way to turn the power off. You'll need to turn power of mains and disconnected or cut the wires.
I came back from holiday, went to MIL house and saw the work.. too late, wall completely tiled up. So the kettle, toaster, microwave, phones, radio all crammed into 1 double socket. If she gets the blender or food processor out she has to disconnect an appliance.
@@Professional_CZcams_Commenter Where did you go on holiday?
Not sure if anyone mentioned a 1g 16mm spacer then notch a bit out the side or top then run a bit of mika 1 trunking 🤷🏻♂️
Cut the tile with a diamond blade on the multitool. Then feed rods behind with superrods magnet and chain.
Here in the U.S putting an outlet by water is perfectly fine as long as it’s the correct outlet, I’m trying to understand if the areas all of you are from don’t have outlets that automatically trip in presence of moisture and are also resettable from a button on the outlet without having to go to main breaker
Drill two holes and feed cable through?
Nice work but got couple questions why was you even thinking of not using screws? And mostly the drywall box will be behind tiles.
Del, NEVER drill in between the tiles, sure way to split or chip the tiles. Drilling tile is real easy. masonry bit but turn off the hammer action. Under no circumstances have the drill on hammer, that will smash the tile. You use a masonry bit and slowly grind through the tile. Also, you should honestly carry a few sizes in a diamond bit what should be faster. No nails is shite, don't use them, it never lasts for stuff like that. Fix ALL Crystal by Soudal is a thousand times better works underwater too, so ideal for the bathroom. If you ever have a dodgy seal on anything that's the stuff that will fix it long term and will adhere to shiny surfaces like tile, stay away from no nails and silicone.
look on other side of bathroom wall if you have attic you can drill down wall with 5 foot bit if wood
Stanley knife the lip on the dry line box del then pop out the box youd would have had it out on no time
Is that aloud a outlet that close to the sink surley thats not insured???
Would it not have been possible to take a live feed from where it entered the towel rail and then into the shaver socket
I'm going into my L3. This might be a stupid question but surely there's zoning issues with that installation?
Shavers can be in zone 2 provided that shower splashes is unlikely and comply with manufacturers instructions.
In regards to the sink, there isn't actually a zoning issue in bs7671 part 7, however, under part 5 there is a mutual and detrimental influences of non electrical services to consider, in this case the sink where water splashes can occur plus manufacturers instructions to consider in regards to the environment it is in.
So annoying when you finish a tiling job and the customer asks for shit like this. i feel your pain. Customer recently asked me to fit his new heated bathroom mirror, After i had tiled the place.....
If anybody is wondering about the zones and ip ratings, theres no problem with this installation. That shower doesnt create zone for that point since it isnt open and sink/toilet doesnt have zones, so theres no ip requirements.
@@rjp666 Okay i just noticed i was following finnish standard sfs6000, sorry. Can you point me to the british standard?
Fiddly job and then they go "HOW MUCH!?!" - more time than materials. In NZ many electricians don't want to wire anything up in bathrooms any more - cost and complexity of putting in extra breakers, potential for water leaks etc (at least that was their reasoning in our home)...
Looks like electric mirror. Stick it beside it or change mirror with built in shaver
Also I know this Vid is a bit old the fix is decent but the most professional way would have been to just use the ceiling to run down the wall and cut box out of tile to pull wire through .. which is probably what they did for the other electrical panel that was used as the extension point
I’m thinking no nails, will look like toe nails after some time, proper white sanitary sealant that’ll resist mould would be better for sealing the edges of the trunking. just my thoughts
You should have just used a Schneider backbox break out extension collar and cut a notch in the bottom. To bring out that wire to the shaver socket. You just fill the surrounding gap with filler. Was there no way of bringing the cable from the rear?
That socket will be out of zone if you leave it sitting on the edge of the basin won't it?
Its a SELV accessory and there are no zones associated with sinks in BS7671
I notice that socket says shaver and toothbrush which is interesting. I just moved into a new build that has a shaver socket (no toothbrush symbol) and was told not to plug toothbrush into it.
Anyone know what the reason is for this? whats the difference between just shaver socket and a shaver/toothbrush socket?
nothing I would have thought. Was it the sales office guy who did your handover? They are always clueless. Mine told me it was cheaper to heat the house to a constant temperature 24/7 than programme it to warm up when I come home from work- a nonsense theory long since disproven.
Depends if your shaver socket is dual voltage or just 110v.
I did some research and apparently the sockets are only supposed to be used for short duration of time, so if you leave a toothbrush plugged in long term it can over heat and get damaged.
The transformers heat up over time, even when there’s no load attached. If run for extended periods, it can cause the plastic faceplate to eventually crack.
To avoid this, the cheaper shaver-only sockets mechanically disconnect the transformer from live feed when there is no cable plugged in. That doesn’t help if you leave your toothbrush (or battery shaver) charger connected 24/7.
The more expensive toothbrush-compatible sockets also have a thermostat that disconnects live when the socket warms up, to avoid overheating.
That’s the explanation I heard anyway.
@@gadgetman36 I didn't say you can't do it, I was explaining why it may not be a good idea.
More discussion at community.screwfix.com/threads/toothbrush-shaver-socket.191105/ for anyone interested.
Break out old dry lining box, drill 20mm hole in tile somewhere above for your surface box, fish up and then install new dry lining box so it’s lipped over the tile. Preferably knock in the box to the tile with grinder
looks like the towel rail has to be on all the time for the shaver socket to be live, hope theres a thermostat on the towel rail
Is it ok to put a shaver socket so close to the sink does it have to be IP rated?? Just asking thanks
F
Most shaver sockets use an isolating transformer which creates electical seperation so they can be installed in zone 2. Those which don't use a transformer can't be used in bathrooms at all I don't think.
@@supersparks9466 the sink zone was created by manufacturers and some other documents
Here's a video about U.K shaver sockets czcams.com/video/hyaaPt6UuEU/video.html
@@supersparks9466 That's incorrect. There is no zone around a basin or sink
Seriously though... How much does it cost to have a couple of tiles replaced?
More than having those three tiles installed the first time.
I woulda just told em bollocks mate
Even thought that's an isolation transformer is it still dodge to have it that low down to the sink?
Hello del
Are you concerned about the possibility of water ingress an the distance between the bason and the electrics.
Are their any rules in the regulations on the distance between electrics and water? Especially in kitchens as I've see plug outlets very close to taps and the metal draining for sinks, so you have an hopfully earthen sink with water makes a good circuit but not for the human body?
I am in electronics and have positioned all electrics over a sreatched hand to hand width in my kitchen its 2 meters, but I would have thought at least 1 meter. Have no points in my bathroom and light switches are eithe pull or on the wall outside the bath room.
Also glueing the surface box to the shiny tiles in time I think it will fall off eventually.
You have changed the way you are doing the job while I was writing this.
Love you attitude to your job would be great working with you, say as an apprentice, you'd make a good trainer.
Thanks for your video
Why not put the shaver point in the vanity unit?
Welcome to my World my friend!!
Since its close to the sink, why not turn the towel rack box into a socket?
What was wrong with getting it into the vanity unit?
Good job looks trick in tiled but done it pretty nice job thanks for time
Just had to ask, is the shaver socket safe so close to the sink?
Yea you can install these in zone 2 as there is electical seperation thanks to the isolating transformer inside.
www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/shaver-point.htm
It says zones 2 or 3 but it also says 240v should never be near water. That towel rail feed measured 240v. I'm confused.
@@ro63rto Yea the towel rail supply definitely looks a bit dodgy!
There isn't a zone for sinks, zone 3 also doesn't exist anymore. The shaver socket is fine as long as it is clear of splashing water/ damage. The towel rail supply isn't in any zone and as long as it is 150mm or more from the water pipes then its fine
@@conorlanders8401 Finally, someone who knows their zones. A few idiots on here need to revisit the regs if they think a sink has zones
This guy seem too nice to be a spark from London
I'd have stuck the big box for the shaver socket over the single backbox/faceplate and just left it there. No need for trunking, keeps it further away from the sink (risk of electrocution) and provide a neater solution
Lots of different ways of skinning this cat. How about running t1 directly behind the rad rail going vertical and fixing the shaver along the side of the trunking personally i think it would have looked better the trunking would have not been as visible. As I said cat skinning tricky job though.
Multitool out the plasterboard box?
Hammer time?
Spear bits and insulation tape for tiles 😎
I’m a plumber putting right some other complete muppets work as he was kicked off,one main bathroom and two en suites tiled floor to ceiling with NO waste for the basins put in😫😫
Shaver in a dodgy zone.Correct ip rating I hope. 🤣🤣🤣Neat work delroy as always.
Tidy job no further work required,or damage to repair ,its a win win for owner
Should have mounted it to the wood on the sink unit.
looks good