The things that Sonos doesn't dare tell you (but I will)
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- čas přidán 15. 09. 2022
- I cover (or is it uncover?) details of the Sonos Sub Mini that you might not already know. So find out more before you place your pre-order. Actually, these information are all in plain sight. But I will analyse it and share its significance, and what it really means to you.
*** Rob Hargraves pointed out that I said at the 10:53 mark, "the sub mini is the first sub that Sonos has produced that is NOT sealed". I meant to say that the Sub mini is the first sub that Sonos has produced that is SEALED.
Big thanks to Rob for pointing it out and everyone please take note!
Sub Gen 1/2/3 - PORTED
Sub Mini - SEALED
If you found my work useful and would like to support it, please visit my Patreon link to contribute to my coffee fund! : / peterpee .
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For those of you who are on my Patreon account as a contributing member, get early access to my research and analysis. I have posted price comparison and combinations which I think will be the best combination for the Sub Mini here - www.patreon.com/posts/best-su...
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I love your content. Thank you for taking the time to be so thorough and informative in all of your videos, the b-roll footage is excellent as well. Very professionally done.
Hey thanks! I thought the B roll could be better. My handling of a camera outside the studio really sucks. :)
Very interesting Peter... Thanks for sharing! Very informative as always!
Thank you Alan!
I find your videos very informative. I’m new with sonos and learning a lot from you. Thank you for your service.
You are most welcome John.
This is my first time coming across your videos. I love the details you provided. Good job!
Thanks for putting your appreciation down in writing!
Your channel is just pure gold in terms of home theater and music setups. Thank you very much!
Wow, thanks!
Excellent analysis Peter! Can’t wait to get one for my setup.
You are doing a great job. This is the best and clearest video so far. Respect bro!!
Pre ordered it yesterday! Can’t wait to hear it now after this video!! Thanks Peter!!
Hope you enjoy it!
Thank you Peter!! Looking forward to the comparison video!!
Everyday is one day closer!
Very informative, thank you! More and more seems to push me in the Mini direction.
I am quite smitten with the sub mini! And I definitely want a sealed sub option.
Peter, your videos, and your presentation style are both outstanding. Thank you sincerely for the work you do. This fairly new subscriber will be contributing to your "coffee fund."
THANK YOU BRIAN!
I love you Peter! Thank you so much for all your research and advice
Thanks for your support!
Great points! Fantastic work 🔥
Thank you for appreciating!
Thank you for the video ! I'll be waiting for the analysis when you got the Sub Mini.
Thanks for your support! That will be soon!
fantastic video and great details, as always Peter. As soon as I heard about the sub mini.. I thought peter is going to compare the volume and driver area of the sub gen 3 and the mini.. and Lo and behold!
I've already checked the weight of my sub gen 3 from the previous videos and it checks out. :)
Cool! Thanks for your support all along!
Thanks for the very interesting informations. Can‘t wait to pair it with my Arc. I love the round design and the smaller size !😊
Yeah, sound aside, it is a great form factor.
Great video. Thanks Peter. Can't wait for the Sub mini review.
I am having sleepless nights waiting for it too! :)
Do you have a time frame for review?
Your videos are amazing and very informative. No need to reassure us..just keep creating these videos.
Thank you, I will! Thanks for the feedback!
Good examination of the specifications. I'd add that while the surface area of the Sub Mini's drivers compared with the Sub, we must also expect the excursion to be lower on the Sub Mini and also for it to have a lower powered amplifier based on the selling price. So, total output is not only a function of cone area.
I don't have a close up shot of the Sub mini in action, but if I show you a video, you can actually, just maybe, glimpse that the cone excursion is something of a small wonder... Let's see about that. :) Can't wait to test out for sure!
Excelent video Peter, thanks. Curious to see how Sub mini’s larger drivers will perform against Gen 3’s smaller drivers but with more space and ports.
Looking forward for your tests as always 😊
Good question and those are the points I am wondering to myself.
Another outstanding video Peter .. thank you so much
You are so very welcome!
Awesome info and comparison Pete. I just got my mini today and so far sounds great. I’ll give it awhile to break-in.
It sounded superb right out of the box! My own "non-review" unit came too and I managed to squeeze some time to make a full review of that with the Beam Gen 2 and One setup, all new!
@Peter Pee yes I am very happy with my set up of Sonos One, Beam 2, and now Mini Sub. So clean and crisp for our medium sized living room.
Thanks Peter for another great video. I love the setup of your videos and the depth of information you share. You definitely pulled me into the Sonos eco system ;)
Damn, I really need to apply for the job of a Sonos salesman.
I‘m looking forward to see you do the frequency response sweeps of the mini and compare it to the gen 3 as well as the overall sound of both compared!
Maybe the future best setup will be with one of each subs to combine their strengths and maybe cancel out some weaknesses?! 🤔
I would be absolutely thrilled if you tried a mixed bass setup for one of your future videos.
Greetings from Austria and as always: great content, keep it up!!!
I don't know if the Sonos sub mini is inferior to its gen 3, but I can say that I have the sub mini connected to my arc, positioned next to my sofa and it even makes the sofa vibrate during explosion scenes. very good and I don't regret buying it. It has fantastic value for money. I bought mine for $343.00 during the year-end holidays. I even leave mine set at -1 because I live in an apartment and it even vibrates the furniture inside the room.
very detailed vid! keep up the work! you've my sub
Thanks for the sub there!
Great video again! Thank you! Going to weigh my Sub Gen3 soon…
Thanks Keith!
Thank you Peter, Informative & your enthusiasm & attention to detail is appreciated. Can't wait to hear your future forensic analysis between the Sonos Gen 3 & The Sub mini, or in real terms ; is smaller Bigger, or is Sonos blinding us with Science.
Btw: have they fixed the Bass problem on the Gen 3 yet? 😊
Not yet David... On the one hand I really need them to fix it... On the other hand... I need a break from making these videos! :D haha.
Nice work. It will be really interesting to know that amplifier output draw comparison between the 2 subs. Having the air compression behind the mini with the larger driver area...
Spot on Chris... Questions in my head...
Well done!
Thanks Pyro!
Love it !!!
I have the Sub Mini now for already 3 days and I can confirm that the Sub Mini ist an excellent sub for Music and for Moves. I use it in my 40 M2 Living Room togehter with the sonos arc an two One and I#m very happy with the performance. The sub mini boosts the bass of the whole system and takes the bass work away from the arc and improves the clarity and the sound of the arc.
That’s fantastic. Glad to hear that the sub mini is performing even in such a large space.
@@PeterPee i can confirm. Ir works good with sub mini and arc.
Great vid Peter
I loved this video too!
Waited more 5 years and I’m going to buy it. I don’t care what they say it’s good to pair with. It will be good for the Arc and Beam and everything in the line.
Haha... spoken like a true wireless audiophile!
Peter you are extremely smart and very thorough in your videos
Aiyoh, shy la. Thank you!
Thank you for the great information you give. Question, I have a Gen 3 can I add the mini to be a 2nd sub to my system? Also will you be doing a video on the latest update 4.20??
great content
Thanks GW!
Excellent video Peter! I learned quite a bit from this video especially in the great details on Sonos tech!
I find Sonos Sub mini is overpriced in HK and Singapore by a big margin but I was unable to get a good explanation from the distributor in HK! I have noticed that most retail prices for Sonos products when compared with US Retail prices was around 20% premium in HK, a margin I am willing to pay for considering HK is a smaller market. However, Sonos sub mini are priced at 40% premium after tax and duties (which is 0% in HK) are applied in the aforementioned 2 locations. I wonder if you may have an explanation on why such jump in price just for Sub Mini? BTW, fyi, Singapore @S$869 = US$616 , is also under the similar price premium over US/UK/Australia, i.e. US @US$429/UK @£429/Australia @$699. The premium is enough to cover buying from the US direct and ship over with freight. The worse is that it makes me think twice if I should continue to invest in Sonos. The concern I have is that the huge price premium may reduce Sonos' market share here in HK and drive the distributor to struggle which may risk Sonos supporters without support!
The pricing in HK and SG is indeed marked up quite a bit unfortunately.
Thank you for your detail video. I just got a two questions. I recently got the Arc and want to add rear speaker. Would the seal speaker a better choice like Sonos ones SL or the port speakers like the Ikea frames. Leaning toward the frame to save space but if the difference is big then I will go with the ones SL. Thank you
I have the bean (Gen 2) and a par of SL. This is exactly what was missing from my current setup. I did the preorder, I hope I did not make a mistake
I think you might find this to be the second best decision after buying the beam.
Great info as always,, thank you. I just wanted to add , the mini may have a driver cone surface advantage, but without comparing the max end to end linear excursion of the drivers on both units, it may not yeild any meaningful advantages
Great point! Because the excursion of a ported sub usually ends up to be higher. There is less pressure to fight in a open ported design!
Peter my man, you scienced the shit out of the subs and slapped some math like a boss 🔥
Haha, obsession can drive strange behaviour.
I've held off on buying the sub gen 3 because of the cost and the concern of disturbing my neighbors below. Excited to see how the sub mini performs because I really want the mini so that my arc will not have to perform all the bass itself.
And a sealed sub might actually do that trick for you... I seriously think so.
You should have got the beam also 😂
can’t wait for a comparison
Hi Peter, Thks for sharing some details, specially the surface cone. I guess more surface means more power to move them. I would be curious to know the power of the amplifiers..
Another point you did not mentioned: the Mini is not meant to be laid on his side! Stand up only! Contrary to the Sub that can be set in both positions …
Huh! I did overlook that! You are absolutely right!
Thanks!
Thanks for the info regarding cone surface area. I am very curious about how the mini will sound in the end. It reminds me a bit of the SVS SB3000 micro Subwoofer which I always found awesome…!
Yes! You are right! I have the SVS SB3000 micro and I really REALLY want to pitch the two of them together!
I want to see this battle! This would be such a wonderful study.
@@PeterPee whaaaat XD
Hi Peter, love your reviews..do you have one for best setup specs using an Arc, 2 Fives and a Sub Gen 3? Thanks!!
I have the mini. Its more than sufficient for my living room. It measures 16 ft x 42 ft. At times to much base and I have to turn it down. I think for the average household it is more than adequate for music and movies. I'm quite impressed with it. I have it hooked up with the arc. Excellent results. Thanks for your informative reviews
Peter, without your channal we were lost 😍😍😍. Bjarne from Denmark Europe
Wow that's high praise! Thank you!
I can see that Sonos is attempting to bring more into its eco system with the sub mini and I applaud them for this. I feel with the beam in a average sized room the sub mini will be adequate and performance will be good enough for the vast majority of users. The sub gen 3 though will definitely in my opinion be better for those action movies where there are explosions and action scenes, especially in a larger room. I currently have the arc and two SL’s for rear speakers and feel that given the size of my room the sub mini will suffice, if only to release more from the arc. Having said that I do feel the sub gen 3 is the better buy for the long term.
We'll see how it goes in the long run. Most Sonos products do retain value quite well. Actually, the champ of value retention is the Sonos One!
Nice review. Thanks a Ton. One Thing o don't get. How is the Sub Mini compensating the Fact, that it is sealed ?
We are not going deep into sub design. Sealed subs usually require a slightly more powerful amp than an equivalent ported sub if you want the same level of output. But ported subs require amps with high damping factor to STOP the cone when the bass notes stop else they end up sounding flabby and sloppy. At this point, we don't have much other info cos we haven't tested it yet.
Hey Peter, great video. To collect some data :) My Sub Gen 3 weighs also 13kg
Thanks for this info!
I recall alot of the beam gen 2 vs Arc reviews early on where like “it’s an Arc killer!”
now a year later we know it’s no competition - apples to oranges just like this sub mini apples to oranges to the sub gen 3
Well I would not call the beam 2 an arc killer but it is a nice little soundbar that sounds surprisingly well with music in my opinion. Regarding music, even better than the arc but that is my personal opinion.
Yeah, I guess that is part of the initial hubris surrounding a new product launch. Let's really test this new sub and see how it performs!
@@PeterPee yes sir!
HI Peter, I have always enjoyed your detailed and easy to understand videos but am not sure why you need to spend most of the video justifying why your channel is different! It’s rather cringey to keep hearing le. Believe in your channel approach and strength! Discerning viewers (like me hehe ) can easily tell without any scientific tests. LOL.
Oops! Ok, feedback taken. :) Thanks for sharing and appreciating!
100% agree. Peter, you have a niche of your own and your content speaks for itself. By over-pitching yourself you are diluting your own messaging.
It’s for new subscribers. Not everything is about you 😂
Agree!! 3 minutes of self promotion is very cringe indeed.
I was thinking of commenting the exact same thing but didn't want to come across as rude. The truth is every time I watch these reviews, I automatically think "Wow this is some in-depth stuff, that no other reviewer does". I can safely assume that most of Peters viewers think the same way too, so it doesn't need to be mentioned tbh.
Glad someone mentioned it. Even more respect to Peter for taking it in the right spirit! Keep up the awesome work!
I have Arc - do you think new Sub mini would pair well since the soundbar is not a sealed design and doesn't it really matter or play a significant role compared to pairing Arc with last gen sub vs new sub mini?
The Arc is a sealed design. But really, I think it doesn't matter that much. I think I might have not been super clear in my video but the difference will be small when it comes to design consideration.
This was great, thanks mate! Would you suggest the mini would be good enough for a smaller lounge room where music is more my poison rather than action movies. I'm a musician and love a variety of many types of music.. so thinking to add a sub to my arc. Any response is greatly appreciated 👍🏻
Hi Peter. I have been waiting for this Sub Mini to complete my collection , however i got more confused as i watched your videos. I have a Beam Gen 1 with One SL for surround. I am using them to watch CZcams and movies. Based on your research, the Sub Gen 3 would be a better choice for me as you mentioned its good for movies. Should I go for the Sub Gen 3 instead considering my requirement and also from pricing-point, it is about $200 difference to the Sub Mini. Your advice is very much appreciated. Thank you !!
I have not heard the sub gen 3 and sub mini together at the same time before. I was just commenting based on use case. If you are really into movies, a ported sub would be great.
But it’ll be best if you wait for my review. When I have a chance to test both subs side by side.
@@PeterPee Thank you for the reply. Will wait for your review. Have a good weekend!!
I found the sub mini perfect to pair with our BEAM Gen2+Era100’s for our master bedroom system. It’s perfect for our tv shows.
Mr. pee, if I buy the sub mini to add to my arc do I have to retune it with true play again ? Thank u
Thanks Peter... when finishing the embargo for new analisis about Sonos sub mini?
Thank you for the info , you definitely know sonos. I watched the video but wasn't sure weather or not the sub mini is sealed o right not. Is the sub mini actually Sealed?
Hello Peter, do you mind sharing where to buy your wall absorbing panels? they look great, thanks
I bought it off a local seller on a marketplace called Carousell. But he is not a dealer and only has a few pieces. I’m still looking for more!
@@PeterPee thanks man
Not happy Peter! If this performs better than my Gen 2 i will freak out😀
Haha. I actually… have that same concern….
Ok so the sub mini has more surface area. I would like to know what the excursion of each driver is compared to the gen 3. Do you have any information about driver excursion for both models?
No. This is not publicly announced information. I made a video on that before...Let me find it.
If you build it they will come(and subscribe).. but if you give a really bad sales pitch why you are better, they will not come(and subscribe). Keep it up and thank you Peter for your videos. I use your videos to learn about everything i need help with and my confidence making a decision/purchase is the most confidence ive ever experienced ever about anything ever in my life... wish i could feel that way in my love life, abilities and others.. keep it up and just remember this counterintuitive truth nugget about getting subscribers. You havent heard anywhere else i promise you i will be the only one to give you this info you wont find anywhere else; -a quick fast subtle statement to subscribe, will get you more subscribers then any other strategy, in fact the more people over think (being funny clever or anything long winded or repeated) the more us viewers will go out of our way to not subscribe or simply click out of the video or pretty much do the opposite of anything you want us to do. Anyways, as far as ur videos content and everything you do A+++ %100 Thank you for your time and effort i always watch your videos id be lost without them being unhappy stuck with 2 sonos 5's with 2 beams; instead of 4 sl's 2 subs and an arc hahah (sonos humor if u dont get it u dont know).
Lol
He's right^^ also thank u im preordering 2 mini subs! Thank u for sealing my decisions peter!
Hi Peter. Thanks for the great video. Can the sub mini be added as a second sub in a system that already has a gen 3 sub?
No, it can't. Not even 2 Sub Mini can be paired. But 2 Gen. 3 instead can be paired. Crazy
Thanks for helping with that question!
Thanks for the response. Was really hoping they could. It might better balance the bass profile to get the best of both music and movie bass performance 😢
@@duranv2117 I'm pretty sure, it has to do avoiding problems by Not mixing ported with sealed devices...
It will be interesting to see how well it performs, generally a sealed cabinet is able to get lower bass freq than a ported cabinet, if it has a combined woofer size of 12" I'm not that surprised they say it can get to 25hz however I think it will have huge drop off at that frequency due to having such a small enclosure. To get down to a true sustained 20hz at high spl levels takes a very large enclosure and at least a 12"+ woofer and 100-300w+ power design, I think the cheapest 20hz sub I can think of is the yamaha sw300 (I'm sure there's cheaper unknown branded ones but the yammy is £300ish). This is how I'd compare subs if it's similar price but obviously the sonos tax is real :)
Oh yes, the Sonos tax is real... but that's also because of the software... that adds to the value that they are expecting consumers to pay for.
@@PeterPee I'm not a hater of sonos products I do really
Like some of them but with the full end arc setup it doesn't seem worth it compared to the other brands high end units that come with included 2.2 rears and subwoofers. I think being able to add two subs is good and something you can't generally do on the other brands but when you add it all up you could have purchased a serious separate system that would blow it to pieces. I guess you'd be looking at 2000-3000£$€ for the arc, the large sub and two rears. And they don't have atmos rears yet. (although I hear possibly soon might) if they add atmos rears and overhead atmos speakers then it would justify the price a bit more for the unique options at least.
Danke!
Hey! Your contribution and appreciation is... appreciated!
i wish you would do these detailed videos with other Soundbar brands but i know that you dont have the budget even tho youre channel is the most precised Soundbar reviews i have ever seen you dont have that much views i wish u would have the views that u deserve.
Thanks Labi, that gives me some confidence that at least my videos are helpful even if not many people are watching them. So it at least helps those who are!
I have Arc and two One SLs. Do you think it is worth considering adding the Sub Mini? Mostly for music...
I actually think it's worth even getting the Sub Gen 3, the bigger one. I am a big proponent of subwoofers so....
Thanks for the video. I'm wondering if it's worth it to pair Sub Mini with my Beam + Bookshelfs setup (because of some discounts, the Sub Mini is actually as pricy as my whole current setup in my country) - and if yes, how to convince my wife it's worth it? :D
Bring her to the store and ask for a Beam test, with and without the sub, and play your wedding song.
@@PeterPee Amazing idea! But haven't seen Sonos in any showroom in Czechia, yet.... people here are used to stick with TV speakers and if they buy a sound system, it's some entry-level Samsung/Sony/LG/TCL soundbar.
Hi Peter, as a fellow singaporean, im sure you’re aware of the size of the living room of a bto 4-room HDB. In your own opinion, do you think the sub gen 3 kinda “overkill” in regards to the small size of the living room? Given the square feet of the living room is relatively small, i do think the sub mini would suffice the entire living room. Weighing options now 😅
There you go! The review is out! The sub mini might actually suffice for your case! New 4 room flats built within the last 10-15 years no problem for the sub mini.
Hey did you happen to review Sonos 14.15 update? Did they bring back the sub volume?
I have not gotten round to that but no, it won't have fixed the sub volume with trueplay. The current workaround fix is just to turn off Trueplay for the moment.
I think the Sub mini will be amazing, get bass in a family home without all the complaints of being over the top.. I think it will be great with the BeamGen2. Looking forward to your review videos
Hey, newbie question here.
Just getting into SONOS and I have two Roam portables which I use mostly in my kitchen. What is the technical hurdle to pairing them with a Sub Mini?
You can't. Sonos doesn't allow pairing any sub with the portables including roam and move.
Peter: My Gen 3 Sub weighed in @ 29.2 lb. FYI.
Thanks for the help! Yeah. That confirms what I measured too.
Great content Peter. I am just disappointed that you said the mini could be more of a music sub, rather than a movie sub, because if i did get the mini, it would be mainly for movies………hope your reviews will tell a different story.
These are just speculatory at the moment, based on whatever info is out there. And yes, it could change when I test it. And also note the the difference in theory may not translate to difference in actual use.
Peter. I just weighed mine. G2 sub is 32.6lb , G3 is 29.0
Fantastic! Thanks for your help! And so you have both! :)
@@PeterPee yes. Believe it or not I have one of each!
Hope we will be able to connect 2 sub minis in the future!
Hi Peter If i use ARC+sub mini for movie is it good ?
Loved the video!
Really wanna buy the sub because that’s the only missing piece to my setup, but already broke the bank so it will be for next year maybe… still looking for a sugar mommy/daddy 😂
Keep up the great content!
Thanks for your support!
Thanks ! Very informative! When is the embargo off and can we expect you to speak “freely” 😁 ?
Soon! Actually I am noob in this. I don’t even know if I am supposed to talk about the embargo! Haha.
@@PeterPee thanks! Well I guess telling when the embargo date ends isn’t a forbidden thing 😂 but hey… I don’t know the Sonos rules ! Really looking forward to it.
Will mini perform better for music's with Arc + one sl as surround?
Not sure yet. I need to test it to know.
Thanks, Peter! Impatient to know opinion, Peter, new firmware 14.15 😜
Yeah. Actually haven’t gotten around to 14.15 yet but apparently it’s either to sort out the sub mini pairing or the iOS 16.0 launch.
Hi Peter which one should go better with the playbar. The sub gen 3 or the sub mini?
Hello, I’m looking for Sonos, I’m quite interesting on sub mini, but is it perfect for arc or beam? Thank you
I would guess it's perfect for the Beam. Arc, I need to test it out but I am sure it will sound better with any sub!
My take from you is the Sonos Arc and the sub-mini in a medium to large room will suffice?
Peter, will I be able to pair with an existing Sub3??
No cannot.
Thanks
Thank you Aleksandar!
So, if there is more area but it’s sealed vs the sub does that mean they will probably sound similar?
Hard to tell... Cos we don't know the amplification power as of now. And sealed vs ported sounds very different depending on many factors, including the port size and design.
Can you do a ported vs sealed sub video at some point unless you’ve already done such a video..
Very Interesting! Lee Stelling
Thanks Lee!
Slightly off topic, but looking for the 14.15 update review? I have an arc with sl surrounds and gen 3 sub, sound seems to be very well balanced.
Is your trueplay turned off? Actually, you know what, sound is a strange thing... we might have all gotten used to it!? Gasp!
Best of the best Peter! Amazing video as Always! When will you get your hands on the sub mini? After the release?
I will get it before the public release! It gives me a bit of time for the testing and making the video to share!
So , the first secret of the sub mini is ... drum-roll.... it has a smaller volume (so it's actually smaller !) and weighs less then the sonos sub ..... wow who would have guessed that !. What a detail many of us would have missed !
Hi Peter. This may sound unnecessary but do you have info of the packaging dimension of the sub mini?
No I don't have the exact... I am recalling from a mental image.... About 40cm high, and 28cm x 28cm base... 2 handle cutouts by the sides near the top...
@@PeterPee thanks for the info.
I really believe we will be impressed with the mini’s performance
Quick question….do you know if Sonos fix the issue of the sub. With the new updated version 14.15?
Quick answer: No.
@@PeterPee Thank you so much.
Does anyone know when the embargo is up?
Hi Peter... I've been thinking about the issue of weight... if the weight of the sub mini is half of gene 3... but the weight is similar to that of a sonos Five which is sealed, so why can not this small sub give a low response at least a little better than the five and very wax to the sub generation 3