My first thoughts on Installing Linux
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- čas přidán 11. 10. 2021
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Every Linux distro comparison comes back to "they're all good, just choose the one that suits you best" like a beginner has any idea what that is.
Edit: I appreciate the suggestions but I've been using Linux for years now.
For a beginner, basically choose Ubuntu or Fedora and dive in. Once you have learned a little, _then_ you are in a position to know what you like/dislike. It's good to have a few old/cheap laptops lying around so that you can stick different distros on each, learn how networking stuff works, and figure stuff out. But whereas Windows is like a modern car with proprietary inaccessible management software, Linux is more like a classic car where your local mechanic has a chance of fixing stuff. But the quid pro quo is that you need to learn more about the mechanics of how stuff works, and accept that some things won't be as slick as the proprietary thing.
Just use Ubuntu for about a year
@@NickByers-og9cx I settled on Mint, it gave me fewer driver issues overall.
@@larrylentini5688 good luck! Welcome to Linux :)
@@larrylentini5688 but as a beginner, how do we know if we're gonna have a driver issue or not?
I'm either the luckiest person alive or I just have the most legacy hardware that they all just seem to 'just work'
I have a 2004 computer that "just works" with damn small linux... that OS doesn't always run nicely in VMs lol
Both possible... but frankly I think the most likely answer is just that Linux as a whole has gotten so much better about hardware support! All the stories about how inconvenient it is or how badly it supports various bits of hardware are regurgitated over and over again by people who have an axe to grind, but haven't actually tried using modern Linux in 8-10 years. I have used nothing but Linux on every computer I've owned for the last 10 years and I can't think of a single time things haven't worked out of the box in the last 5 years at least!
Anything before 2019 is almost guaranteed to work unless the manufacturer is a dick, 95% of crap after then will work
The only thing that didn't work for me out of the box was a stupid razer keypad that I bought years ago.
That, and for some reason I can't get any non-native games to run for some reason. Not with Steam's proton, not with wine, not with Lutris (which I had luck in the past). They just keep crashing instantly, no matter what guide I follow.
I have latest gen laptop and it just works with Linux, except the fingerprint scanner because Goodix horrible at Linux support
Linux is at the point where Richard Livingstone's quote comes to mind : “Our danger is not too few, but too many options ... to be puzzled by innumerable alternatives.”
Not many people will agree but this is a huge reason why so many new people are scared away immediately. Simply too many options with little to no differences between them
@@toaster98 and thats a good thing
@@murzilkastepanowich5818 It's really not. A huge chunk of those distros are differences that are as simple as choosing Chrome over Firefox and heres a whole new distro that is otherwise 100% identical to the one it ripped it's base from. It's like the every new rock band is a new rock genre problem all over again. Nothing of value is added, value of existing is watered down and the consumer is left with the same sense of not giving a damn that they had to begin with.
The thing is, this is never going to change. People are free to build their distros whenever. If you stick with the most popular distros, get some DE that looks fine for you or just get the one that comes with the distro, you won't take long. You don't need to look at the distro tree and research every single distro and DE, but you can if you want. Just get something that mostly fits you, you can change later if you want.
@@Mrlluck Tell that to someone who doesn't know what a Distro or DE is. I think Linux on Desktop needs an "official" entry point distro. Then people can find out about the possibilities later.
I imagine Anthony being like Louis Rossman was to Jay2cents.
"No, use bash, stop you use a package manage first"
I like to imagine Anthony becoming the Gordon Ramsey of Linux for this challenge
“USE YOUR PACKAGE MANAGER YOU IDIOT, WHAT ARE YOU ON GOOGLE FOR?!?!?”
@@soldiergamer1795 and then he sees what linus installed and he just screams "THIS SOFTWARE IS BLOATWARE"
@@rob6508 he’s just lurking over Linus’s shoulder and goes
“MY GRANDMOTHER COULD SETUP BETTER THAN YOU, AND SHE DOESNT KNOW WHAT A MOUSE IS!!!”
@@rob6508 GUI is bloat
@@someonestolemyname Every OS except Temple OS and DOS crying now
I'm in my mid fifties and the transition to Mint Cinnamon wasn't too hard. There's lots of helpful penguins in the forums should you get stuck. The terminal brought back memories of the good ol' DOS days.
It all comes down to this: are you tired of the ever increasing levels of bloat and spyware that comes with Windows?
I'm using Mint Cinnamon too. :) But I also installed i3wm alongside it too. I had xfce and kde installed as well at one point
Mint cinnamon has been my go to distro for everything for the past 6 years, I even use it on my Minecraft server
That's the thing that keeps me from switching. I'm not tired of the bloat and spyware, I just have a modified win 10 install.
@@viniciusmv7727 I started with 19.1. When Win7 support ended I looked at Win10 and said nope.
@@marcusborderlands6177 They'll just end up burying it in the kernel. But I can't argue that Windows works better out of the box than Linux.
"I use a Thunderbolt dock" oh, this isn't going to be a good experience.
I may be in the minority but my dock (wd19tb) works almost perfectly under popos 21.04. Apart from having reauthorize the dock every time I disconnect and reconnect my laptop from it. I do have some more issues when trying to use anything other than gnome though.
@@maximum988 I had the Dell XPS 2-in-1 (Kaby Lake) on a Thunderbolt 3 dock for a while, and it worked well. Then I updated the firmware on the laptop and it became a complete nightmare. Video card was much slower, the drives attached in the eGPU box would stop working at random, on and on. Went from Manjaro to Ubuntu, spent days trouble shooting it, and In my desperation to try to get it working properly again, I even reinstalled Windows :/ That gave me a working laptop again at that point, but then the laptop itself started dying, and yeah, time to move on.
I *do not* blame Linux at all, all the problems started after that firmware update, I blame Dell. If it's not broke, don't update that firmware?
@@maximum988 you seem to need to add some device rule
@@jyvben1520 thats what I was thinking. just haven't gotten around to trying to figure out the exact rule I need.
@@maximum988 That's a pretty big "apart from" lmao.
honestly, finding a distro as a beginner checklist:
1. does it have a sufficiently big userbase that you can find support?
2. do you think it's pretty out of the box
Underrated advice. Always have to laugh when people recommend niche distros like Zorin. Yes it's UI is customized to closely resemble Windows but the userbase is so small and the ubuntu guys won't help you because it's not their distro.
You have a couple options:
Fedora, Debian, or (power users) Gentoo
nothing else fits those criteria.
Never install a distro by its looks. You can make any GNU/Linux distribution look like anything you want. Package management and sufficient support should be your only concerns.
@@rcht958 Oh yes, let's expect a beginner user taking their first steps in Linux to install their own desktop environment and tweak it to look like they want, maybe switch the display manager too while they're at it? This kind of attitude is why people think Linux is difficult and inaccessible.
@@eainen valid point, but I think software availability should also be kept in mind.
Maybe when this is all done, there should be a series exploring the distros and desktop environments as options for ppl looking to move away from Windows
a mix of what luke and Linus learned as 'average' users + Anthony's experience would make for a great miniseries
dude I'm highly recommending Zorin OS 15 it's beatiful
as much as I hate what MS did with Windows 11, there's still no Linux distro that can compete and I don't think there will ever be.
I fired up my Ubuntu partition today after months of neglecting it. and it is not even updating and upgrading stuff that took my time. it is the simple features that I can do in windows simply by installing a program. in Linux, I have to jump through hoops and learn the OS libraries and different kernel features and the different ways to interact with them. had to spend like 3 hours just to dim 1 of my 2 monitors and still didn't get the full functionality I had on Windows.
I am an IT nerd/geek so I have the patience and the will to spend time on these things to tailor my experience to my needs. but imagine the normal person's reaction when they try to do something and they simply just can't unless they read some weird lines of bash understand them and execute them with the exact arguments they need.
While you wait, I highly recommend checking out the CZcams Channel "The Linux Experiment". It's really approachable for new Linux users coming from other OS's, and Anthony tweeted to Linus about it a few weeks ago (when the channel went down for 24hrs). Really well produced, minimum jargon.
@@mdhxx one of my monitors blew up so I got rid of it and put in another one. Then this one dock app called wmmenu I use started opening to the left instead of the right. I figured maybe there's a command line switch I can use to force it to open to the right like I like. Nope. Turns out it slides in whatever direction there's more screen real estate. The new monitor had more resolution than the old one. So I just cut out that piece of the code in the source and recompiled it. Now it works how I want. It can only slide to the right with my edit. I guess in Windows you'd just be hosed and have to put up with whatever you get. In Linux I can have things exactly how I want them to be. But doing that does take some effort. Which is not always practical to do. Sometimes its a win.
I would really appreciate a dedicated channel for linux with Anthony as a host. He could talk about the latest kernal updates or handy commands to use or something. Oh! Even a shorts only channel with tips would be awesome!
yes
Linux Tech Tips?
I can't wait for this series. I hope they stick with it for a while
So it's a series? Talk before, do the thing it seems. Not really the average user approach i'd say. Even without someone more savvy helping them, all of this preparation for "a series", like it could just as well be a single video for that matter, is not really the average user experience.
I for one don't really sink a lot of time with anything i can't just pick it up, understand a bit of it fast so that i'm able to use it. If it's not instinctive i'm not using. There is an overhead regardless of that. If the thing whatever that may be requires a lot of attention and study time just to lay out the basics before going in to the nitty gritty overhead, then it's not for me. Take a game for instance, it's one thing to pick it up and just learn its specifics in order to play better and something else entirely if you need to learn how to press your keys and move your mouse before all that. You already know how to move your body, you hand eye coordination already exists. Use that. A game that requires you to relearn some basic stuff is a game that is not too attractive.
As you read this they've probably given up already. Linux is not for the weak!
@Yougotnomilk yes I do. Jabba da hut!
Package manager is the most important part. Some package managers won't update their repositories regularly. You can install whatever you want from source 🙄 but if you are on a distro with a somewhat "best" package manager your life will be much easier.
If you need the latest and the greatest you can do that on your own. In fact you're better off doing it on your own. Because then you can manage the mess when things go wrong. Distros that push alpha software on users are nightmares.
@@1pcfred Eh, been using Arch for quite some time now, worst thing that happened to me related to Arch being a "bleeding-edge" distro was a bug in the kernel that caused my GPU to idle at max clocks. Reverted to previous kernel and within 1,5 minutes my install was fine again
@@Starcrafter23 when I tried installing Arch it did not come with so much as a readme file to get started. I've heard they finally did fix that. Apparently they expected you to have another working computer open to their website to configure the system. As long as I live I will never forgive them for that. I'll never get the 15 minutes I wasted with that crap back ever either.
@@1pcfred actually the entire Arch Wiki is available as a package on Arch and comes with the ISO install. Also to anyone using Arch I suggest besides to install the LTS kernel as well as the Default and other kernels you want. The LTS Kernel is more stable and if the default kernel breaks you can always use that until you can fix the other.
@@Epsilonsama wait really, do you know the name of the package since that sounds like something that will come in very handy when setting up!
I've been working in Linux media for.... let's say a very long time. I thoroughly approve of these rants. Aside from jargon, the next worse thing is, "oh, you should have used...." That absolutely makes my blood boil. And I'll go on the record as saying we need to stop recommending Ubuntu as the best choice for new users. It's horrible these days. Linux Mint is far more familiar, and I have real life cases of non-computer people using it without help, picking it up intuitively. If we're sticking with GNOME (I'm personally not a fan, but to each their own), then Pop OS! is a much better experience.
I fully agree with this
My question is why does linux fail at STEP 1: Picking the OS??? Why do we need 999 distros/environments/cores? This atomization of devs is stupid, they can never agree on ONE way to do things, which makes most of the linux tutorials not only useless depending on which version you use - but they also AGE very quickly. A lot of the more "niche" (not really) stuff also comes without GUIs..in 2021...
Being a windows power user is a lot more satisfying than learning linux, IMO. Yeah, MS breaks some stuff every now and again, but at least I don't feel like I need a PhD in programming to work that thing...that is IF I can make a choice which damn distro to use to begin with...
@@TheUltimateBlooper Because "Linux" isn't a company, GNU/Linux is just a collection of software that be stitched together by anyone. It can be annoying, sure, but somehow if you managed to standardise on one distro, by the next week there would just be more. It would be simpler if "Linux" was one company, with one goal, one standard, one community. But people are always going to disagree with each other and want to do things differently. Themz the breaks with software freedom.
But it's not all chaos. Underneath the zillion distros lies a handful of foundations: RPM, Debian/Ubuntu, Arch, and few others, with Debian/Ubuntu being the most common. Generally if something is say Ubuntu-based, then instructions for one Ubuntu-based distro should work for another.
I understand the perks of proprietary software and being a Windows power user. But that's Microsoft's workflow. Not yours. You are at the mercy and control of Microsoft's whims, not your own. The reason I've been daily driving Linux for twenty years (more specifically, the KDE desktop), is that KDE is the only desktop on any operating system that can cater to my workflow and my way of doing things.
For those that stick with it, the strength of that fragmentation is that eventually you discover an environment that works very specifically for you better than anything you will get from major software vendors. It may be hard work at first, but it's ten times more rewarding.
If someone has to go the ubuntu way, popOS is the way to go
@@karanssh I would definitely agree if you're going to use GNOME. I don't like GNOME personally, and think it's not such a wise recommendation to first time users because you have to learn a whole new method of using GUI, but if Pop made another edition with another desktop (I'm a KDE guy) I'd definitely use that.
Finally tried setting up an Arch install after using linux for work the last 8 years. Honestly, if you remember how installing an OS like Windows 98 use to be, where you had to manually set up and format your file system before the install followed by loading and installing individual drivers, it's not hard at all. Gave my Framework laptop a Mac theme with Mate and a Mojave theme and icon pac. Looks pretty cool. There are ways to configure kde plasma and gnome to more mimic osX, but I found those desktops a bit too flashy/crowded for my taste.
@cpong Meant it more of an analogy. Arch install handles all the common device drivers and whatnot, but you still have to pick and choose your DM/DE and do some degree of setup to get a fully functional, conventional OS one would expect.
@@Rowrin is that something a typical person could do? Or would it require following some kind of manual?
@@popenieafantome9527 Once you've done it a few times you don't need a manual, but you'll want to follow the instructions first time or first few times through.
When you boot up from the arch install iso it will drop you in a text terminal with instructions on how to use iwd (iNet wireless daemon) to connect to a wifi connection (if you are not on a wired ethernet connection) through the terminal.
Then you can either follow the instructions on your phone on the arch wiki, or type something like "installation instructions" (it tells you exactly what to type) to open a console based web browser on the wiki page to format your file system and install.
Tip: you can open multiple tty terminals using alt and function keys (f1, f2, f3, etc). So you can have the instructions on one tty and switch back to the other where you are working in.
And to somebody who actually doesn’t know anything about Linux, none of that made any sense. Like Linus said, it’s daunting…
So you bought a Mac looking pc, have yourself a headache, to make it look like a Mac but have none of the supported software and require endless tinkering and hours pissing around. Linux is only free , if you don’t value your time.
Linus, I just want to let you know you're not alone in struggling with Ubuntu. On two separate occasions in the past, I did the same thing as you and somehow deleted the entire desktop environments. For all that people complain about Windows, I've at least never managed to get myself permanently stuck in a TTY 🙃
@@zUJ7EjVD I think the issue is with Ubuntu's demographic in general, which is that it's geared towards people who might be less tech-savvy, meaning blunders like deleting the DE after following an online guide would be more common. Linux will let you shoot yourself in the foot, and it'll even provide the gun. People moving from Windows sort of expect that the OS will protect them from this stuff but Linux just assumes you actually want to do it, and then lets you do it
@@NateNate60 It's the price of freedom. You can do anything; even things you might not want to do.
@@zUJ7EjVD You should always proofread the commands you run, never assume it's safe.
@@zUJ7EjVD Clean and autoremove are safe. Clean clears cache and autoremove removes automatically installed packages that aren't depended on. A previous step must have caused the issue.
@@zUJ7EjVD Well at least you learnt 2 things. How to setup an enviroment (you can probably install arch just fine now) and to check commands if you aren't sure what they do. Btw did it actually fix the bluetooth problem at least?
I was looking to escape from Mac/Win ecosystems but wanted to game and found Pop! OS very approachable.
A shallow of a learning curve but No Way am I going back. Rather get lost in the weeds for a bit than deal with other stuff.
gaming in Linux is better than macOS thanks to the proton
@@tantonodavid7324 if anyone contests that, they are delusional.
I’m really looking forward to this series, as I think it’ll be both informative and a lot of fun.
Disto selection is incredibly hard. The community is so fractured and tribalistic and getting a straight answer on 'What distro will work for me' requires so much up-front investment the average consumer (or gamer) doesn't want to commit to.
Yeah i gave up with linux because of that. And commit to for what? Trying to get stuff to work through various, non-optimal ways that worked perfectly on windows? What’s there to gain? Linux needs one fucking ”linux” as the face of the entire thing and it better be well thought out, or, you know, stay in irrelevancy-land in the pc world.
Distro doesn't really matter the desktop environment is the the important part as that is what you interact with the only important part of a distro is the package manager that is why most people say arch is the best because pacman is amazing package manager
Yeah, and the stable distro / OS for my workflow is Mint from (debian & prob ubuntu)
@@deliciousbananasoup553 dude its not that fucking hard to choose a distro lmao, having multiple distros allows for diversity and innovation as well as giving functionality for many different groups of people. I seriously doubt that you actually tried to install linux, given how easy it is to just try out a distro in a live iso and see if its right for you.
@@cat_dev_random this. I use arch btw.
modern distros are easy, back in the day we had to compile the kernel with the drivers we needed and pray for our x server config didn't made the monitor explode.
As somebody who had to crosscompile libraries to just run A fucking Spotify client on Ubuntu - I don't think a lot has changed. Maybe users heads are exploding instead of monitors.
I'm pushing myself hard to get into a career in IT and I'm a Linux virgin too, this series is coming at a great time for me, can't wait!
Which part of IT?
It's probably better for you to set up different distros in multiple VMs and play with it than just watching this series.
I'd second the idea of using a virtual machine to test out linux, although you probably won't be able to run anything that requires a GPU (it tends to be a bit fiddly to set up in the virtual machine).
That said, depending on what it is you're doing in IT, Ubuntu and Fedora are probably the big names just now for server infrastructure etc. Start with learning either as a desktop environment and then move to learning the server versions (which are basically massively stripped down versions of the desktop one, but a lot of the quality of life packages aren't included in them by default, so it's a different experience)
Although setting up VMs and messing with them is great because you can just do whatever you want without the fear of breaking something, I would still recommend you to follow this series and use Linux as a main OS even temporarily because encountering normal problems of everyday use and trying to solve them will help you learn a lot.
2:22 Ubuntu is gnome, you can use other DE's, but then it's called Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu.. although most distros don't change names with DE's.
You could install Ubuntu and then replace the DE or install one alongside Gnome and it would still be Ubuntu. The variations in name when you select the iso to download are just for convenience.
@@Zatmos If you start with Ubuntu, if you want to switch to the full KDE experience; apt install kubuntu-desktop. You're right though, it's just typically not done
as someone who has used Kubuntu, Xubuntu and Lubuntu, I feel the core of each distro are all slightly different from one another, as each are developed by different groups of people and not Canonical themselves.
for example; Lubuntu is developed for older, lower spec'd machines where as Kubuntu is a more visually appealing distro and uses more system resources
actually, Ubuntu uses unity, not gnome. i know that Unity is based off of gnome, but so is cinnamon and people dont call that gnome.
@@arnone1862 that's because LXDE is a lightweight desktop environment, and KDE is heavy
The only things you really have to consider picking a distro are:
1) do you like the default apps it comes with?
2) do you like default look and feel.
And even then, all of it is completely exchangable. These are just to make your default quality of life easier.
In my opinion, the primary thing to consider when picking a distro is its repositories.
@@user-he4ef9br7z while thats one that actually matters, for an every day normal user its not really all that necessary, and it'll probably cause confusion
Naaaa. Does it look good and is it popular.
i use arch btw
You can't forget to background check the distro, otherwise you end up on the Manjaro forums asking why Plasma broke for the fifth time this year.
Ubuntu was considered beginner friendly back in the days compared to all the other distros at the time, but nowadays we have way more beginnner friendly distros so that's definitely not the case anymore
I like how you say beginner friendly, I jumped several distros and I never got it to rly work, there was always a problem that In the end not even several people in a Linux discord could solve. If Linux would work like Windows and just do what people want and that without problems then people would switch to it. But no its not so many will do the same as me and stay on their windows 10
@@nekominorinya2569 this. Linux just makes everyday things too complicated (some people say that it's actually more simple, but that's just a lie)
You know what is NOT beginner-friendly, though? THE DISTROS. How many damn distros do we need ffs??? That's step1 failed already.
@@nekominorinya2569 My understanding is that this is largely a matter of manufacturers (both hardware and software) not supporting Linux properly... something they will Never do until the user-base is already huge, because supporting extra OS's takes time, which costs money. Microsoft and Apple can get around this by just... paying them to do it anyway. The Linux community... not so much.
That said, the SteamDeck, if Valve manages not to stuff it up, could well change... Everything, in this equation.
@@laurencefraser it already is, battleye and east are coming to linux
I can’t wait to see this unfold. I basically had to start using Linux due to my university studies :3
Regardless of the outcome for this, I'm just hoping it will get some fresh blood into the Linux communities and help grow it as a whole. The more people that use it, the more support it gets from devs and the more feasible it becomes to daily-drive for everyone.
I also want that.
And what Linus and Luke talk about here is the first problem we all hit the wall at.
What distro is simple and compatible enough for me to download and instal?
Until the linux community comes up with an unified answer to that question, Windows will remain king.
I’m actually very excited for this as someone who is interested in trying out Linux.
As someone that's been running Linux for 26 years I'd say that everyone's experience is unique. So you can listen to what others say but in the end your opinions are the ones that carry the most weight for you.
You should try ASAP
Try a Live bootable USB, no need to install or change your system. Just pick any popular distro with a Live option and try it out!
Try out a few distros with ventoy and see what suits you best!
@@fenrir7969 Well you do need to disable secure/fast startup or smth but otherwise yes.
Got a Xeon a few months ago for development work. The only fully functional and stable distro I could find was Fedora.
So great your doing this and doing it so thoroughly. I think it will have a huge positive impact on the further development of Linux distros, and reach out to more people, expanding and enhancing the community. Great job
finally a quick redemption about the fedora comment.
I've been using pop for 1y now, but fedora was the most stable distro for me as a dev to run containers...
quite impressed on the previous video about the fedora comment but glad you went back about it on this one.
as for audio... guys.. it's linux and Alsa sux... as for the elgato stuff, I use my capture card with no issues and you can use streamdeck too.
good luck with linux, linus; quite happy to see more linux related contents. Really looking for a framework review with a linux distribution fully functional no joke!
I cant wait for the part where they have to setup a printer or want to enable a high refresh rate on their monitor or mouse on Linux.
I have a HP laser printer, comes with its own software in both Windows and Linux flavours. The Windows software is FAR superior to the Linux version to the point that while I could do basic printing tasks on Manjaro "out the box" I'm still better off rebooting into Windows 10 any time I want to print something.
dude in the other video he already talked about that refresh rate was funny
For my old HP printer the setup on Manjaro was actually easier and less frustrating than on Windows, where it forces you to use their idiotic Windows store app.
@CGGS_Gaming It doesn't have to be that way though. A lot of software is exactly the same on Linux vs Windows. I have at least a dozen programs installed on Manjaro that are identical to their Windows versions. HP are just lazy.
Installing a HP Printer was easy as pie over here, and better yet I didn't have to install HP Bloatware to get the printer working, unlike Windows.
I know which DE I prefer because I've been using linix for years(both as main and multiboot) and I've experienced different DEs firsthand.
If you're just starting out, then yea, there's a LOT of decisions you gotta take based on little information.
Well, which DE do you prefer? You left us hanging.
I've used a lot of DE's as well. Now I'm settled on using just a window manager alone, Icewm. I love how shit it looks and it feels like it's designed by the layman.
@@blossomcherrypink KDE does the trick, but xfce is a close second :)
0:57 what he meant by it being beginner friendly was the overall design of the UI. It kind of resembles a windows or mac UI which makes the switch easier for newcomers. what he meant with a pain to set up is self explanatory
Cant wait for these videos to air. I too am researching on Linux aka pop os for when I get my new gaming laptop. :)
To be fair, that's an understandable reaction. If you've only known Windows and/or Mac. You didn't have choices. There's no need to know what DE, packaging, etc means. And going to Linux will give you so much options and it's easy to be overwhelm. I think for beginners, it's fine to just check which UI they like then stick with something popular. It's your entry point anyway, experiences won't vary so much and you can just switch once you're decided to use LInux for a long time.
Also, I think trying out different distros in live sessions will greatly help people to decide without installing. This is one of the great thing with Linux. Hell, I can even boot ISOs from my phone connected to a PC 😄
I see simple conclusions .... "if you've only know Windows and/or Mac" ... I must correct you view of world. World is complex.
You are forgotting some parts of formula.
1. developing for each system (Windows, Linux, Mac) - how much time does developer spend on developing stuff, and how much time developer needs to do way-around stuff
2. support for edge cases - most of people see app and are - I can do it in one day (sure main functionality yes, but all of edge-cases? NO )
3. does system change over time - in other words backcompatibility
4. how many OS (I mean also UIs) must app support - yeah this also takes development time
and when you account for this -> Windows is best choice to develop app
-----
for basic stuff any OS is good
for complex stuff it narrows done to only one OS:
- developing for iphone? Mac is only choice
- using complex science calculations that you wrote, linux is your choice
- using very specific program - most probably it is only for windows (becase A it is most common OS, B it is easiest to develop complex UI app for, C you do not need to change it each year because of new OS and new rules)
tl dr;
it is not that simple, as everything it is complex problem, do not simplify it
@@Twistal2 But you, as a community, need to simplify it if you want more support.
Because programmers won't port their programs to linix unless it is commercially viable.
Which requires a large user base.
Which requires a simple begginer entry point for those coming from other systems.
@@lesath7883 Well I think most Linux distros are already simple enough. What made them complicated is that users need to install them manually which most of the users don't need to do on Windows because it's preinstalled. I just realized this. Linus wants to simulate a normal user experience but it's unfair because normal users don't need to install Windows and most them don't know how to. Installing most Linux distros is pretty much the same as Windows. They even have a try before installing (live session) feature that Windows doesn't have. So a user can basically try any dsitro before installing.
Another thing that makes it complicated is enabling hardware and stuffs which there's not much we can do. If companies support their hardware on Linux by default, this won't be a problem. Sadly, this is another chicken and egg issue.
Im planning on building a pc this dec. and i hope you guys would launch a linux channel with Anthony. Ever since i watched Anthony's vid, i was like, yup this will be os ill be installing if i have a pc.
Still more power to guys!
Sometimes Linux does not support the newest hardware right away. It is not as bad as it used to be but later support remains a thing.
@@1pcfred i live in a third world country, by building a pc i meant salvaging most of whats left in the second hand market. I dont really have a budget to go buy any latest hardware, so it wont be a problem. I thought the same thing too, thanks 😊
@@earlivhanmonte2976 Linux usually supports older hardware pretty good. Years ago I built a brand new PC and had some issues with graphics drivers. The last time around I bought used hardware and everything just worked.
I am currently running Linux Mint (Switched 1-2 weeks ago) and my biggest grip with running it is that a lot of companies don't seem to care about supporting things from network cards to Tidal (HiFi music app) which have 0 support natively.
Did his video on installing Linux come out yet or no? I want so see Linus go through it as a Windows professional such as I am trying to install a completely foreign OS to see if it's just me being stupid or is it really difficult to set up Linux.
I've been building and programming windows for years but I still can't wrap my head around Linux. Can't get my nvidia is to install no matter what I do.
After the wan show where they first talked about this, I moved to popos. Been really liking it, runs pretty well.
I used pop_os for months, too. Do you miss anything from Window/macOS? Are you running in dual boot?
@@leysont I'm dual booting
@@waseemh3863 i dual booted for a long time too. I got rid of windows severeal weeks ago and haven't missed it yet.
I am using Arch right now and it's my first linux distro, it's amazing, yes it did take me 3 days to install but it was fun to learn how to install it.
I did exactly the same!! It's honestly a good beginner experience if you are okay with taking a while and learning everything.
dont forget to use yay
I didn't understand one thing. Linus has his VM with Linux installed or the whole server(aka the hypervisor) is running Linux?
Which channel will have these videos? I see "LMG Clips" channel discussing it but which channel has the actual videos
Problem is Linux never was intemded to be everyone ls OS. It was used and was made to be used by people who actually wanted overwhelming flexibility and choice. Then suddenly other users are starting to have a shot at linux, and it is not a wonder that they don't like it. It was never an OS trying to popularize itself. It was an OS that did what it's users wanted.
Now the community has a problem and have to decide between having an OS with what they want or an OS that majority wants. If they choose first, it will never become popular. If the second is chosen, Linux will loose its uniqueness and it's appeal to it's own userbase.
Probably the first one will be the joice. The danger is that this sudden movement might damage Linux's reputation permanently, just because it wasn't made for being everyone's OS
To be more accurate "it's not that learning Linux is hard , Hard is unlearning Windows" I remember my first computer experience it was windows 95 do people think I automatically know everything about it no my father showed me where everything is that was when I was 4 ,fast forward 20 yrs I like to live in terminal 🤣
It's not an either or, to be honest. There could easily be a distro that caters to the average user's needs, while we can still have the flexibility we want on other distros.
World Domination has been a core goal of Linux for quite some time. We are a patient group. "I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will be a completely unintentional side effect" --Linus Torvalds.
@@seeibe Yep, I think OP is confused with the concept of open source... There will still be people to cater to people who know what they want that's different from Windows. There will, and there is, also people who cater to people moving from Windows. In any case, Linux is a kernel. How people package that kernel with other software makes the distribution. Linux won't stop being a kernel of it gets popular.
I actually somewhat disagree with you that Linux "never was intended to everyone's OS" and that "suddenly other users are starting to have a shot at Linux". I've been hearing about how Linux is the best future of all operating systems, and how everyone should definitely be using it, for the better part of 25 years. I see Ubuntu and other distros making the same argument. I see the efforts of companies like Steam making the same argument.
There was a time when I considered Linux a viable alternative, but I really feel like what once wanted to be the operating system of the future has mostly been hijacked by a small subset of enthusiasts who are perfectly content with keeping it hard to use so they can protect their little niche to feel special that they know something others don't.
Highly recommend Linux Mint if you want something that will mostly 'just work', about as much as possible in the world of Linux anyway.
It has a quite well designed UX, sane defaults out of the box and easy to customise.
Based on Ubuntu LTS, very stable. And Cinnamon will make most Windows 7/10 users feel right at home.
Another tip for trying Linux for the first time... keep things simple. Linus probably should have picked a much simpler PC setup to try Linux for the first time on...
I used Manjaro but on Linux you can fast mess up something. I reinstalled the drivers and got weird graphic glitches. It's like everything is easier than on windows but some things need 5 hours to fix
Bought an old Thinkpad T400 from a used hardware site many years ago. Threw in a 180 GB Samsung SSD for a replacement of the old harddrive. Put Linux mint on it and it runs like a charm up to these days. No issues with hardware support at all - everything was detected and set up on (very quick) install. And that was my first Linux I put on myself, never installed it before.
Anyways, you guys have to do a follow up, when SteamOS 3.0 is out ;)
Just to put my input in..I've distrohopped for about a decade now...and at this moment i can not keep from returning to Manjaro KDE! It just delivers every time for me.
Agreed, Manjaro has been my go-to for several years now. Quick an easy setup, and it's easy to find solutions to the few problems that may come up on the Manjaro forums!
I have gone through tons of distros for years and finally felt at home with Manjaro KDE. The amount of customization is the best I can get and the most I would need.
@@embedyt exactly, KDE offers such a clean look but still leaves so much customization in the hands of the user! I first used Ubuntu, then Linux Mint for a bit, but nothing has come close to how I've enjoyed Manjaro + KDE
The thing is that there are several small features that don't necessarily break the usefulness of Linux, but are still easier on Windows.
For example, I wanted to disable my touch screen on my laptop. For windows you simply go to device manager and disable. Done. On Linux Mint Cinnamon I had to search the commands and then learn how to add those commands to the start-up sequence so it stays off every time I boot up my laptop. Sure there are ways to Google this answer and there are several people helping, but it was much easier in Windows. I don't even know how to turn it back on, I assume it's just the reverse but if it isn't there goes another 2-5 minutes of research. Whereas on Windows its the same steps. Not to mention that on Windows I don't have to memorize any commands. It's always in the settings.
For my own personal use, I have yet to find any greater benefit other than Linux Mint making my battery last longer on my laptop and being less resource hungry.
Either you had to learn how to add these commands to startup so it stays off, or you don't know how to turn it back on. Pick one, lol.
Also, you can't be coming at this from the "simply use device manager" perspective of a Windows expert who has been using it since '98. Even knowing device manager exists, and the convoluted procedure to get there in Win10 is expert-level technique behind hours of googling for beginner. With significant risk of messing things up badly if clicking the wrong things.
@@hustake4475 gui>cmd
This was my experience(but in reverse) trying to switch to windows. I grew up useing MacOS and Linux before trying Windows 10. In Mac OS all the system settings are indexed by spotlight, unless it's a rare exception where there's a config file easy. In Linux it's always in the appropriate config file(regardless of distro). Windows? A setting could be anywhere, there's like three different control panels, and Google's not going to tell you which one to use. On top of that, some stuff can only be done in the registry, good luck navigating that without Google.
You just get used to using one thing, personally I think the bar for windows is higher than Linux (or MacOS) purely because of how inconsistent it is.
@@hustake4475 What's so "convulted" about typing "device manager" in the Windows search bar? At the same time I didn't have to memorize the commands for windows. It's just a search thing. In truth you can mess up things in either OS if you're not careful.
However, I'm not the only one who likes to customize their settings and in my particular case it's easier on Windows than Linux. Linux Mint is a popular distro and it still has less straightforward customization options than windows.
The only benefits I see from switching to Linux is less power hungry, while having better security and privacy. Two of those benefits can be accomplished with Windows machines by changing settings in Windows and using a browser like Firefox and not downloading random stuff. If "device manager" is an "expert" level thing, then I'm definitely not recommending Linux. Maybe Ubuntu is easier to use, but Mint compared to Windows? Not a chance.
fwiw, I'm loving linux, used mint, ubuntu (mate), ubuntu studio, and arch (daily driver). Ran into some walls early on and had to do the learning but once got through that everything is great. I feel like I own my pc again. Go foss!
cannot wait for this series please hurry !
To truly emulate the “normal user” experience, wouldn’t it make sense to use Linux on “normal user” hardware? Not an expensive, boutique, cutting-edge hardware setup?
A lot of people DO have cutting-edge hardware, especially PC gamers. When I tried Linux on my (at the time new) 2012 build, it wasn't compatible with half my hardware. My sound card, my mouse, my SLI, my 3D monitor, etc.
This 100%. Not to invalidate Linus or Luke’s experience however it may be; most people just have a regular desktop setup with their monitor plugged straight into the GPU’s HDMI or DP. Peripherals straight onto the motherboard, a USB dock at best. They probably would have Ubuntu or similar up and running in - what, 10 or so minutes it takes for a fresh install on an SSD. That said, hopefully some viewers do end up trying Linux out atleast and maybe more devs start considering Linux ports for their tools (Serif, please).
@@Cyber_Akuma That's fair. IMO, it's not worth it yet to game on Linux, but for everything else (productivity, video editing, photo editing, software development) I think Linux is a viable option. I'm not saying this would work for everyone, but I dual-boot Windows (for gaming) and Linux (for everything else) on my relatively modern hardware setup.
It's so weird that they keep insisting that they are absolute beginners and yet keep saying "Fedora is a meme". Your run of the mill Fedora uses Gnome, just like Ubuntu. They are completely confusing it with something else. It's so weird that they think this. It'd be like if I said "Windows is for elitists and hipsters, I won't touch it": it makes no sense. They are really digging their heels in on this stupid point. Just admit you confused it with Gentoo or Arch or something.
not sure if this is sarcasm or not. As they said fedora as a name is a meme, not the distro itself.
Are you not familiar with fedoras being popular among neckbeard types and weird ass people in general? That's what they mean. It has NOTHING to do with computers in any way. Just that the hat has become a red flag for very strange people who aren't quite adjusted properly.
Does anyone know if they will be live-streaming themselves trying it out or will it become a Linus tech tips video?
Man, the setup!! Looks awesome guys.
"When they talk about Ubuntu, they're talking about GNOME..."
* angry Ubuntu MATE noises *
jk yeah if anyone swaps out of the default DE they would bring it up. Or they would bring it up anyway because they use Arch and have like two separate DEs for it because there's no default.
Let me help you out. Get PopOS then buy Linux compatible hardware.
Which is any hardware more than a few years old
like a mac basically
@@verbosed "... more than a few years old." It sucks buying a brand new laptop and getting stuck with Windows because your hardware is too new to be supported by Linux. I had to spend a good couple of hours looking through dmesg logs, kernel parameter lists, etc., just to figure out how to get my keyboard to work. The same applies to getting my Intel Rapid Storage Technology locked Laptop (couldn't disable in BIOS) to work. In the end, it was just a couple of kernel parameters in the GRUB configuration (vmd for RST and i8042.dumbkbd for the keyboard).
Also, if you are planning on moving to Linux, don't buy Nvidia. F*ck Nvidia. All my homies hate Nvidia. Go team Red, who actually has open source drivers for their GPUs. So, their GPUs will generally work out of the box.
I'd recommend the MSI Advantage Edition, which comes with a RX 6000 series mobile GPU. I personally got the ROG Strix G15 Advantage Edition, but there are some issues with it that'd make me prefer MSI.
Your timing is excellent! My I7-6700 is an unsupported CPU in Windows 11, and even if I could afford to replace a CPU that is still perfectly capable of doing anything I need it to (I can't), I am loath to run a telemetrized live-service OS on my hardware in the first place. I've been strongly considering making the leap once Micro$haft drops support for Win10. I will echo some of the comments below and second the notion that Anthony should host a regular series or whole channel on *nix for n00bs. It would be an insta-subscribe for me, a total *nix n00b.
Zorin has been very kind to me. I've learned a lot in the last few weeks. Got Plex and Emby running on it and accessing my movies on a giant NTFS drive (because Windows accesses this thing too). What's a VPN that absolutely works in Linux?
I love this so much, I can't wait to watch videos of these 2 fumbling through Linux
One of them have previous experience if i remember correctly
They are both drama queens just looking for clickbait drama for their tech god channel. Neither is as dumb as to have to fumble through something as simple as installing and using a Linux distro.
@@flipflopski2951 Installing a Linux Distro and daily driving it are 2 separate things entirely. Neither of them had really spent a ton of time using Linux for gaming until this challenge. There is still a lot for them to fumble with. They haven't even talked about controlling RGB stuff in Linux which I know from having an RGB keyboard was a pain before I found the right software for it
@@4ngeldus739 Here's proof that it's just clickbait and not anything educational. Why won't they say what distro or hardware they are using? There are tons of videos about people who are honest and straightforward about switching to linux. None of them try to hide what they're doing.
@@flipflopski2951 They talked about the distros they chose in another clip. If I'm not mistaken Luke chose PopOS and I forgot what Linus picked honestly. Also their trying to create content. The WAN show isn't some Linux show and tell. That's going to happen in a full length video later on once they've completed the initial challenges. You're right, it's not educational but you can only really learn to use Linux if you get your hands dirty and do it yourself. I barely learned anything from YT when I started using Ubuntu in 2009. I learned from joining forums and communities in the now defunct Google+. Linus tech tips is barely even educational. You can't really learn from watching noobs mess around with Linux
I don’t know why Ubuntu is the main focus when it comes to “beginner friendly” distros when ZorinOS exists. THAT should be the popular “beginner friendly” Linux distro.
It makes my blood boil reading people recommend Ubuntu and Fedora it’s like they only to recommend the most popular distros like popular means good lol
@@mojojojo1529 Linux Mint is good for power users IMO who are new to Linux
Just like Mac Address, a **Linux, btw** named channel with Anthony would be miraculous
Yo the new set and lighting are FIRE. Love it!
nice wan setup
I may have a really default hardware, bcz I've never had issues. Hope the best with you Linus!
How long does it take to cook your toast, though?
So much for the Anthony reactions to the plans
I’m also just changing to Linux - helpful to watch these guys as well
I hope he used MX Linux. They have the best community support and also has the best use for anyone who comes from windows
We are a very toxxic community no matter what distro you use! we don't like noobs at all! matter of fact i bet not hear you asking for help before reading the man pages! mx linux is very stupid, just use ubuntu! mx linux looks like trash for computers from the 90s.
@@ricardoricardo3232 you know you can change the looks if you want to
So let me get this straight: we’re coming at it like a Linux noob off the street to give a realistic account of what it’s like to switch, but we’re going to set it up with your highly unusual rig?
If it doesn’t work, I’m not sure that’s a fair representation of what you are going for.
Plenty of PC users have weird stuff for their rig, either for work or play, because it's all designed for windows. Weird stuff designed for windows will work completely fine on windows for the noobliest of PC users. Then if that totally noobly PC user wanted to try Linux, only to discover there's zero support for one or more of they're devices... Yeah. It happens. It happened to me too. It's a normal experience.
@@thedancingsousa I think Linux in general (at least the mainstream distros) have now hit the "it IS easy to install and use for 80-90% of the average, everyday person who isn't in IT or isn't a computer enthusiast.*
I get it that there will always be the 10-20% of everyday, non-IT/enthusiast who will hit an issue since they got a really nice, state-of-the-art PC/laptop recommended by their geeky, enthusiast friend, but if you have a laptop with integrated graphics and nothing exotic hooked up to it, then the mainstream Linux distros aimed at the average PC user will have a very easy time installing and using Linux.
The irony is that the average user doesn't have a reason to install Linux since by definition, you are normally an 'enthusiast' if you know why it might be important to use Linux over Windows. :)
I saw that issue coming on day 1. Linus needs to pick an old PC out of the trash and set Linux up on it. That's a typical user experience. I've literally done that myself. On more than one occasion if truth be told. Once I was at a yard sale and they had a pile of garbage in their garage so I asked what's that stuff over there? The woman said, Oh that's going to the dumps. So I said, Can I have that PC?
@@thedancingsousa then you admit the error of your ways and get rid of that weird crap. Would you buy unsupported hardware for Windows or expect it to work? Why are you holding Linux to a different standard?
@@1pcfred the issue is that for people coming from windows to Linux, it isn't unreasonable to expect that hardware they use for work should *work*. That's a major barrier to entry, and a reason for the average user to just stay on windows
does wine not work for some of this stuff? i guess it depends on windows specific drivers for them
Openrgb for rgb but if you have an ASRock motherboard I think you can set it in the bios.
You should really consider Manjaro because of the AUR/pamac (helps with finding 3rd party software) and a lot of thunderbolt functionality is built in.
Kde and Gnome should be the only DE choices for someone new. KDE for customization and Gnome for consistency.
"everything's full of jargon"
Bruh. Imagine watching ltt without knowing a thing about computers
It is almost as if computers were a completely artificial human construct or something. Then again there's a lot of jargon in natural sciences too I suppose.
Welcome to the learning curve. It's going to be uncomfortable for a while. If you think Linux is bad, try figuring out custom firmware for PlayStation or Nintendo consoles. They ALL assume you've been "in the scene" for the last 15 years.
Well there is a lot of Unix specific jargon that contrast with the windows one that most people are familiar with. I agree that this is a constraint but I think it's a natural one.
Can't wait to check the comments to see Arch users going on about how 'Arch is all you need' or 'Arch is simple/the best'.
Arch users are so removed from reality, zero understanding on the fact that the majority of people don't want to go through the trouble of learning
or working with Arch. Arch users need to touch GUI
Manjaro Arch would actually be a good solution for most people though. I get your point about just plain arch, but I feel like Manjaro suits a lot of people's use cases without having any major overall problems (at least in my experience)
@@chefboyardeeznutsinyourmouth Manjaro is nothing but problems. It's literally week old Arch, how can it be any better?
@@strangejune you and i have had completely different experiences then, because I barely ever have any problems with Manjaro. Maybe instead of being a dick about it we could have a conversation about the problems you've dealt with like normal people, but you just saying it has problems and that it's bad isn't really productive discussion.
@@chefboyardeeznutsinyourmouth I've never used Manjaro, why would I want to do that to myself?
I already explained to you in another comment thread about just some of Manjaro's issues.
Yeah like I use Arch happily, but it's definitely not for everyone. I ended up there because of being on incredibly old hardware and needing the absolute most bare bones distro I could find, but it's not a good place to start by any means.
With that said, if you've got the basics down, Arch is a wonderful distro for tinkering and learning more. Just maybe not as your primary distro until you're confident with it.
Is this some future episode to come to LTT Chanel or have i missed something?
This will be lot of fun to see how and what you guys do. 2 weeks ago i dropped Windows entirely and my gaming pc is now Manjaro, full time. Now my life is so much easier i cant even compare now. Smooth as butter (with occasional oddities, but Windows has plenty of those).
"In order to be the best I can be, I should tackle it like a normal user."
Counter argument: a lot of your viewers want an easy way to break into the linux ecosystem and are looking to you to help them. Linux is the epitome of the paradox of choice, and you have an opportunity to say "Listen everyone, it doesn't have to be complicated. Just install this distro, use these programs, don't mess with these files, and when you're comfortable with that and ready to dig deeper, go to this forum."
Personally, I think the "normal user" scenario will be more entertaining to watch. Afterwards, we can have Anthony tell us what we should be doing to break into Linux gaming the easy way. Linus is probably thinking along the same lines as if it's not entertaining and just too dry, many will just switch off. The fact that Linus and Luke will suffer and struggle as Linux newbies will at least highlight some of the issues that the GNU/Linux world has.
Pop OS is likely going to be the winner here seeing as it is somewhat gaming focused although some other distro's (Manjaro comes to mind) do have Steam pre-installed.
I think Anthony is going to address that aspect.
If that distro exists, I eill gladly move to it.
Do you have a name for it?
@@lesath7883 Honestly Ubuntu. It (probably) has the largest support community online, and the setup is dead simple. It is less complicated than installing Windows. When Linus said the article he read claimed ubuntu was a pain to set up I just about fell out of my chair.
OBVIOUSLY if there is a hardware incompatibility you will have issues. This is more likely to happen with laptops, but for any modern desktop PC I would be pretty surprised if installing ubuntu was a challenge. The desktop environment is also not too much of a change from what windows users are familiar with as welll.
@@fenrir7969 I don't know any newbies who get all the latest cutting edge hardware sent to them for free by sponsors.
THIS. A BILLION TIMES THIS!
This extends to not just Linux, but virtually all other systems. I don't care how 'user friendly' you claim to be: if you can't just make it easy for a user to jump in, it isn't user friendly at all. I had strong arguments about this stuff, and I'm a god damn programmer! I literally read computer vomit all the time on CLIs when I'm not cross compiling something!
"THIS"
I can think of many things you advocate for.
@@cat-le1hfyou MIGHT have a point about the usability of Windows compared to Linux, if you were just talking about one single distro. But, as Linus pointed out, just the process of selecting a distro BY ITSELF is far more daunting than all of Windows' usability issues put together. Like the person we're both replying to, I'm a programmer. And I've been using Linux since the 90s. But come on. The fragmentation of Linux alone makes it 100 times worse for an average user than Windows could ever be. This is something that the community would HAVE to address if there were ever to be a hope of Linux going mainstream with end users. But it won't ever be addressed because the ability to roll your own custom distro to scratch an itch is also one of Linux's biggest strengths.
imo Linux just doesn't seem user friendly because people are so used to doing things the Windows way. Most people aren't used to having the ability to run different desktop environments, installing applications from a centralized source, or having fine-tune control over literally every aspect of a computer.
And when it comes to choosing a distro, there isn't a centralized source because different companies and people are working on different distros. But I do think it would be nice if the Linux Foundation put a one-stop guide to choosing distros.
@@MrJacobegg You do realize that the only reason people use linux and is because of the choices they have. You want "community" to remove choice because some users suffering from attention span problem can't select a distro lmao.
dumb question but where are these vlogs being posted at?
Totally should make a second series already!!
S1 - Linux from knowing nothing. Very relatable to outsiders & huge entertainment value
S2 - Linux from experience. You’ve messed with Linux servers, but now want to daily drive on the desktop but not quite sure where to start
Mental Outlaw Challenged you
who cares. linux is garbage for anything
You should get an average joe to try to install linux too, for the video
well think there is no way to make the pop os installing process more easier☺️
@@somnia3423 I'm reminded of this when my KDE Neon "broke" (my fault, and also I realized Ubuntu ain't for me)and I tried to go back to Win 10. I forgot how craptastic the installation process was for Windows, if we're comparing that to a Linux liveUSB with a Calamares installer.
I'm currently on Manjaro and super happy with it.
I recently tested Ubuntu vs Mint for gaming. On Ubuntu, my steam games (under proton) worked as intended. Mint, on the other hand, even after installing the amdgpu (as my linux rig is running an rx 480) drivers, steam did NOT see vulkan whatsoever! I went back to Ubuntu, which has the amdgpu already in the install packages and runs vulkan games just fine.
My Kubuntu setup was fairly easy, but everything non standard will be a pain on any distro xD
For those RGB guy: OpenRGB does a quite good job. Yet I use Polycromatic as UI for my Razer gear
LTT Video: "We are switching to linux!"
few days later "so...we may be regretting that decision"
[sigh] ... In some ways I'm getting curious what Linus is going to come up with...
In one sense, it's great ~ in another, it's complete bullshit. Linus is a tech tuber, one of the biggest and richest and most watched and most successful, and a very highly technical person. Linus has got a much better chance of making good (or bad) decisions if he wants to. It's not really a fair call. Linus is not the sort of person who is a normal user possibly having a go at Linux for the first time. People like Linus, like me, saw Linux in 1995 and first tried to install it on a 486 in 1996. Neither of us is even close to a typical 2021 Windows 10 user.
The people who are likely to get along with Linux, are technical, and they've already tried it. The people who haven't, are less technical, and they're not going to like it as much. The fact it's all a bit various and there's 17 choices not 2 to every question, that's going to upset them. Those are not really good prospective Linux users.
I have to agree with you. In the end, the people that watch that kind of "why linux is great" (or sucks) conferences are 99% GNU/Linux/BSD users.
The important thing for me is that the software is Free and does no spy me, but now and in the near future I don't see people trading "convenience" for "Ethics"; I mean, look at all those children making shoes, phones, etc. for the first world.
I was thinking that perhaps the steam deck will provide some exposure to other DEs than windows and Mac and maybe people will get curious about them. Maybe. Maybe not.
What people need to realize is just cause you are a dev doesn't mean you are technical i met so many dev's that don't know $hit about hardware or anything i mean would you call bullzoid a non techie yet he would have issues with linux, same with gamersnexus steve.
PC gamers tend to be a little more tech minded than the average Windoze user to be fair. How many times have you had to implement a fix for a game due to some weird glitch or bug that only affects a small number of installs? Grandma only wants to browse the web and send emails (a popular Linux install could do that easily). Grandson wants to play Skyrim and install 300 mods, run emulators, play old games that Windows won't run any more without community fixes, has to update GPU drivers and install upgrades, etc. I think gamers could handle Linux just fine if they put some effort into learning how it works.
The question is one of motivation; why should someone, be it grandma or gamer grandson, go through the hassle of having to learn a new system? If Windows 11 gets as much hate as Vista and 8 did, most will just stick to Windows 10 until it dies.
Looking forward to the big reveals on what ye eventually choose, why ye chose it and how its working out ! :)
Have a tiny office pc with a ryzen soc and a 16gb m.2, threw xubuntu on it (not my first distro choice, is indeed a pain) and its a little janky because i dont think there are proper linux drivers for an embedded vega 3 igpu but i got drivers running anyway. Very new and have to look up a lot of stuff, but excited at all the interest and potential steam is drumming up in the market. I think having an os option that is open source, free(typically), and highly customizable(so many distros) is something a lot of people will be interested in, as long as their games are supported.
Gaming on Linux is fine until you decide to plug in ps4 controller and it becomes very bright torch that wakes up the person next to you. ~Stuff1646
lol
😂glad you can turn of the light in the steam settings, something you cant do on ps4 for some reason
A lot of this isn't Linux's fault, though.
I mean, Windows also has a kernel and then a "window manager / desktop environment" on top of that too.
The structure is actually the same - indeed, the NT kernel is actually a (slightly compromised) microkernel, so its kernel / user space divisions are actually even more harsh than monolithic Linux - but we never talk about this, and use this jargon every day, with Windows.
Because there's no choice in the matter. Windows has one user interface and that's it. You don't talk about desktop environments with Windows, because there is only one, so there's nothing to talk about. Like it or not, this is what you're getting.
I guess the comparison I'd make is with hardware, as Linus will surely appreciate that.
Like, if you're never opening up a PC to build one or upgrade it, then you'd also have no idea what "SATA" or "NVMe" mean. You perhaps wouldn't know what's the difference between a CPU, a GPU and an APU or SoC. Words like "Molex" or "ECC memory". What the hell does all that mean? What are all these connectors and why do they all have weird names?
So, yeah, if you're the sort of user who just buys an off-the-shelf pre-built PC or laptop from Dell or HP and then you just use it until it drops dead, and then just buy a new pre-built system...
Then, yeah, cracking open the side of the PC case to find out that there's all this modularity - and a ton of jargon about it all - could be quite the culture shock too.
"Replace my graphics cards? What's that? And I've got to put it into a "PCIe slot", you say? What the hell are those? One of these things on the motherboard? Okay, I'll just put it in the bottom slot, then. What do you mean 'no'? Because that's only a "PCIe x1" slot, you say? I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about."
Same difference but in software, rather than hardware.
Windows is "pre-built" operating system. You get what you're given. You can't open the side of the box and we've soldered all the components to the motherboard, so there are "no user serviceable parts" in there. Leave it alone. Just trust us that we've put all the modules together for you.
Linux, though, is the software equivalent of building your own PC, but now you're building your own operating system.
Just as, when you're building a PC, there's all these modules that you need to put together - CPU, RAM, PSU, graphics card, etc. - then when you're building an operating system, there's all these modules that you need to put together - the kernel, the shell, a desktop environment, a package manager, etc. - and just as, once you start building a PC, you're going to have to learn the jargon - "PCIe", "SATA", "NVMe", "Molex", "CPU / GPU / APU / SoC", etc. - then once you start building an operating system, you're going to have to learn the jargon there - "kernel", "shell", "desktop environment", "package manager", etc.
You understand and accept this when it comes to the modularity of PC hardware. But, well, operating systems are modular things too (even Windows is that, but you just don't ordinarily see behind the curtain - but if you were working for Microsoft, they have "the kernel team", "the UI team", "the Powershell team", etc. and it's just as modular under the hood - but, with Windows, you're not supposed to look at the man behind the curtain).
If you can accept and comprehend hardware jargon, then the OS software jargon should be a breeze. It's not nearly so complicated.
Particularly because, in your quest to "build your own OS" (the software equivalent to "build your own PC"), then plenty of folks have already done most of the hard work for you with all the distros out there. That's why there's so many. Just as, like, how many different PC configurations can you make? In fact, way way more.
By analogy, a distro is like a "base system" that you're just upgrading. You're not building the PC from scratch. You've bought a "base system" and now you're opening it up to upgrade the RAM and change the graphics card.
Or, with operating systems, you've installed Arch. That's your "base system" and now, if you want, you can change out the desktop environment for another one - like changing graphics cards.
Indeed, the one "distro" to look up is "Linux from Scratch". In truth, it's not really a distro, it's documentation that takes you through the process of literally starting with nothing, and creating your own distro entirely from scratch. This would be like buying components and building a PC from scratch too.
But, yeah, that's a lot of work. Very technical. So most people grab themselves one of the many popular "distros" out there. That one crucial difference between hardware and software - when I build an operating system, I can just provide a download link for everyone else to download it and use it, if they want. But, yeah, when I build a PC, then I'm only creating the one physical object.
So operating systems are more handy like that, in that you can just look to see who's built the kind of operating system you want and then just download their hard work, so you don't have to do it yourself (though, it's all open source, so you are totally 100% free to do so, if that floats your boat - get the source code and compile it all yourself).
Linux just, like, exposes what's going on. It's showing you the modularity openly. Just like, if you crack open a PC case, then you can see the hardware modularity that's inside the box too.
Windows is the software equivalent of "no user serviceable parts" and a sticker over the screws that voids your warranty if you break it. There's no upgrades in there. No "right to repair". Take your pre-built operating system as it comes.
But Linux is the software equivalent of, like, cracking open the side panel on your PC and swapping out the graphics card. It's your hardware, do what you want with it.
So, yeah, you can say "but there's all this jargon" and there is, but there's also "all this jargon" when we're watching you do one of your PC build videos.
You're connecting the what to the what now? "PCIe x16", you say? A "gen 4 NVMe", you say? What the hell does all that mean, Linus?
Surely, it's just a magical black box with a power button, right?
You just wrote a 3000 word essay, presumably bitching about Linus saying there's too much esoteric jargon with Linux, and presumably thinking anyone is actually going to read it.
This is why normal people hate Linux and the people that use it.
@@GeneralNickles "presumably"? You didn't even read it, did you?
@@xanri7673 gee, did you figure that one out all on your own?
Call the Nobel prize committee. We got a genius over here.
Its all linux fault! No audience no support!
@@GeneralNickles I think Matt's point is that if you haven't read it, then you logically can't criticise its content, as you don't actually know what that content even is.
I'm new to Linux and I've tried a few but its annoying when I try to use a distro and it doesn't detect wifi
Luke mentioned on WAN Show that you guys might have less trouble if you were running AMD GPUs for Linux gaming. Any chance for some videos comparing Nvidia and AMD GPU performance, and experiences on Linux?
Linus, you can't review your complex server-in-another-room as a "regular user". You're far from a regular user. To provide feedback to the Linux community as a regular user you should be installing this on hardware used by a regular user.
By claiming to review this as a regular user, but then running into the issues you will on your complex setup, you're going to give a false impression to millions on the UX of Linux.
All of his setup works as he needs with Windows, they are off the shelf things that are setup. Therefore something a regular person or enthusiastic person will have and want to use.
We don't actually know what the issues he's run into are yet, and it sounds like it's not just Linus who's been testing it. You might be right that it's not the best setup to be testing this, but we'll probably need to wait for the actual videos to have enough details to know whether that's the case or not
@@murphy1138 If the question they wanted to answer was 'can you install Linux easily on absolutely anything without prior knowledge?' then they asked a dumb question, because the answer is obviously 'no'. The hardware compatibility with Linux depends on three factors. 1) Is the hardware common enough that someone made a driver? 2) Is the hardware old enough that someone made a driver? 3) Is the manufacture Linux friendly and made a driver for you?
Linus went with rare new hardware that was previously purchased with no care for Linux compatibility. It can still be interesting to see what issues that causes him, but it threads a fine line between informative and unintentional FUD. The best way to get comfortable with Linux is always either old hardware or something made with Linux in mind.
It's highly unlikely that a complete newb at linux would have any difference in experience here with a different set of hardware.
@@murphy1138 I followed the video series back when he built his setup, and not everything just worked out of the box on Windows, either.
Get Sarah to do this challenge sometime and see how she handles it as well! She would be a good representation and subject for this experiment!
As a user experience stand point, I'd recommend arch because the AUR makes installing apps a breeze although the stability might be a bit questionable because of it being a rolling release distro.
Ioknow... Every time a new Ubuntu LTS comes out I just make installation media, install it, and use it.
I don't try to setup specific DEs or anything, I just use it.
The only problem I have is Windows hijacking my GRUB setup, so I've resorted to removing my disk that has Windows on it from my tower if I'm installing Linux and vice versa if I'm installing Windows.
Linus, you should use Among Os, its a linux distro as impressive as that can sound
You can't just jump into Linux and expect it to work just like Windows, they are fundamentally different on how they work, and it takes time to learn. You weren't automatically a power user the first time you used a Windows PC right?
i totally agree. if someone breaks something like uninstalling their DE as many people are saying here is because they tried to do stuff they weren't prepared to do. if you just install ubuntu with the graphical installer which makes it extremely easy and then just install a few apps and stuff you are not gonna have any problems. and i've personally never had any problems with hardware compatibility.
This is exactly it. No one is born as a power user on any system, they have to learn how to use it. If you ran Linux instead of Windows from the beginning, then switch to Windows, the system would be entirely foreign. The same way Linus is to Linux in this case. Learning how to use one system, then trying an entirely foreign system while complaining about how it operates differently from what you expect seems rather pathetic. Yes, Linux has user experience issues but that problem applies to all operating systems. It's is just common sense that things designed differently from what you're used to will require learning. This rule applies to regular software too. You don't just know how to use Adobe products, you learn how to use them, and depend on them.
But why can't we expect that? There are two mainstream operating systems (Windows & macOS) that are wildly different, yet fairly interchangeable for anyone with a basic familiarity with GUI OS's of the last 20 years. Why can't anyone make Linux, the most flexible operating system out there, behave in a way that's comparable? A novice user doesn't need to know how Windows Update works to get drivers for their video card. (For the pedants: I know that's not the ideal way to get drivers, particularly graphics drivers, but it IS an option if you don't know any better.) The experience isn't even remotely comparable on Linux. There's no technical reason it couldn't be... it just isn't.
@@TheEvox81 windows and mac os are commercial. They have a monetary incentive to make them easy to use.
If Linux worked just like Windows did there wouldn't be much point in running Linux. We run Linux because it is not Windows!
The best experience ive ever had with linux was actualy with my first computer which had everything i needed already installed like on a prebuilt.
Like if you think about it, the average user also doesnt setup any ooerating system in the first place, s/he just uses what's preinstalled and configured...
Where is the video that has this challenge? Still in the making or?
The fun part is once you get everything set up and then realize 40% of your hardware is unresponsive or cannot even be used at all
Arch doesn't like the trackpad on my old laptop no matter how many fixes I try lol
That happened when I installed ubuntu on new released ryzen series and paired with old nvidia GPU, lol.
lmao that's what happened with my speakers. Pop OS seemed to be okay with most of my stuff, but my speakers ended up being paperweights after anything i'd try
Sometimes all my i/o + webcam just stops working on ubuntu after using it for above 3 hours
There are only two distros which reign supreme among the other's
Temple OS (with the POWER of Holy C)
Moebuntu (approved by yours truly)
I could have sworn TempleOS wasn't a linux distro though?
Elgato capture card support is REALLY hit or miss on Linux because there aren't any official drivers for them
I've tried both Ubuntu and PopOS a few times over the last several years and everytime I went back to windows almost immediately. Ubuntu was ok to set up, the trouble was the last time I tried Ubuntu I was heavy into WoW and it just wouldn't run all that well on it. I tried PopOS a few months ago, and had to revert because 1. I could not get LAN to work at all on my PC. I spend several hours trying to figure out what was wrong, and sometimes it would just work on startup but the majority of the time it would not. 2. There was very poor/no fan control, my fans were ramping like crazy.
Aren't fans controlled by bios?