JJ is OFF HIS ROCKER đŻ Stephen A. RESPONDS to Redick saying the MJ era was watered down | First Take
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 1. 05. 2024
- JJ is OFF HIS ROCKER đŻ Stephen A. RESPONDS to Redick saying the MJ era was watered down | First Take
Udonis Haslem joins Stephen A. Smith and Christine Williamson on First Take to discuss JJ Redick's comments about the Michael Jordan era.
#ESPN #NBA #FirstTake
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Shoutout to SAS he building a super team for first take đ
Not really. Christine Williamson is no where near Mollys level
@@gradel888 im talking in terms of bringing guest on
â@@gradel888facts
@@gradel888 definitely not look wise
I thought he needed Max lol.
JJ says this once a month, and Stephen A eats it up like clockwork
Well I mean the reason SAS has such a harsh reaction is because itâs a stupid hill for Redick to die on. Itâs a terrible take.
Are todayâs players better? Of course because thereâs advancements in training, nutrition and medicine. But if you put the playerâs of the 80s and 90s in the present they would be able to equally benefit from those advancements and if you put the players from now in the past they would suffer from the same deficiencies of the past. Just because things are more advanced today doesnât mean everyone from the past was inferior.
Redick doesnât seem to be able to grasp that concept.
How do you 90's fan not understand the concept of expansion?- Players were drafted off current teams. Creating vacancies on those very teams, in which players not already in the league were needed, to fill those spots. What does this mean? Rosters were weaker across the league, with players who were not NBA-caliber without the expansion.
Lastly, if you think players have not evolved in the sport in terms of skill & versatility in 30 years- you are too lost to even understand logic.
@@eaglewinnings8003well said!
@@eaglewinnings8003 You could say the same thing about the NBA in the 60s yet no one considers Wilt's or Bill Russell's achievements the same because of their era. NBA players back then were not as good as those in the 80s and 90s in the same way players from Jordan's era were not as good as current NBA players. Jordan was literally playing against plumbers and HVAC technicians. The standard for players in the NBA today is not even comparable to Jordan's era, thats Reddick's point.
â@LL-zm9go it's not that they don't understand, they don't want to. If you aren't even going to consider logic, you will do everything to avoid it. They take it as disrespectful, but it's just the truth of the era. The top guys were still at the top, but the bucket of talent obviously wasn't as full
Udonis has a bright future in this forum.
I never thought he'd wear a tie. Everything else is easy, now.
JJâ No Klutch The Plumberâ Reddick đ
nice. đ«Ą
Keep Udonis coming backđ
Facts he's a OG and so smart
Unc is the epitome of Heat Culture.
Heâs horrible
Buddy onnat good gas ,dude lips purple đ€Ł
NOpe, he is not articuilate. Boring to listen.
JJ is on the payroll obviously.
Everybody you see on these shows are on the payroll đ.
People that defend jordans era but then come and say todays game have no defense and this era sucks.
â@@user-gc1wj8tt2p the NBA commissioner literally admitted to altering rules to make it easier for offensive players today. I watch games where refs flat out allow obvious traveling, carrying, moving screens, and ghost fouls with nonsensical flopping every game.
This is just the objective truth.
@@user-gc1wj8tt2pIt is true. They play no defense. You can SEE it with your EYES when watching.
@@user-gc1wj8tt2p todays era sucks , player entitlement , lack of defense , no travel calls , every year half of the star players are injured and load management . JJ reddick trashes jordan because he wants lebron and new heads come to his podcast
Two years ago, Michael Jordan appeared in the Top 75/76 celebration in Cleveland. Kevin Garnett said many players who were selected for that top 75 were shocked when MJ showed up. KG said MJ sucked all the air in the room. He still had that presence reminding everyone heâs still the GOAT.
Jordan had the loudest cheers when his name was announced. Heâs in frickinâ Cleveland, LeBron territory, and a city that MJ tortured. Hit two buzzer beaters to eliminate the Cavs in 1989 and 1993. And now Cleveland is cheering for MJ? đ
Remember, Jordan was in Daytona that same morning. I didnât think he would show up in Cleveland knowing how elusive heâs been and assuming Pippen would be there but he wasnât. Jordan is still the GOAT. All eyes on him that day while drawing the loudest cheers. Dudes like Harden looked starstruck when MJ entered the room.
LeBron doesnât have that same mystique and presence. LeBron might be a King but Jordan is GOD to people. A God trumps a King.
Pat4Clippers slop essays from you lately. What happened to your predictions? Eddie Mush đŽđ» have you finally learned your lesson?
Well said.
Doing tricks on it
Perfectly said
Well said!
The best comeback against jj reddick's constant attacks towards past generations was when jj said that they were all plumbers and then jerry west came back and said jj was the plumber of this era đ
Jokic the "plumber" just sent leBUM aka leBALCO aka leHGH aka lePED back home to biogenesis lab đđđ ...ooh by the way, joker is lebum real daddy!!! đđđ
@@ferdiedizon6907 you make no sense you need mental help
Did JJ ever respond to that? Imagine Jordan responding to JJ. Could literally take his job away from him. 50 year old Jordan would beat JJ in his prime.
@nukenubz5087 I agree jordan would still beat jj lol. Jj is just a hater towards the past generations. And no jj never responded lol
Jj was nice tho def ainât a plumber like mfs back then and thatâs the truth
JJ asking to get dragged by Jerry West again
Bob Cousy also
Jerry didn't play in the 90s, hed probably agree with JJ. Dr j said the same thing about the 90s in the 90s.
đđđ
@@Pswayze23Wilt too
They mad because he spoke facts
JJ on that klutch sports payroll
yeah i dont doubt that
You think udonis notđŻđ
@@Dipset415 uh no... Udonis is with Pat Riley, he'd never side with Bron
JJ is on that bullsh*t.
obviously , lebron wants him to coach the lakers , ever since he came to espn he has been shitting 90s players while promoting todays dogshit league
âLoad Managingâ when you are more than able to play, being a top superstar and getting âstatsâ when thereâs less of an emphasis on defense and more of an emphasis on everyone jacking up 3s (even someone near/above 7ft tall)âŠ..thatâs watered down.
And donât forget about âtop superstarsâ jumping on the same squad to have an easier time winning in the regular season.
"Michael Jordan's era" was absolutely the toughest era to be great in. It was the toughest era to play in. It was the toughest era to score in. Watching JJ Redick's game when he played one thing that stands out is he played soft. I am certain JJ Redick would have had no chance playing in "Michael Jordan's era". And I'm sure JJ realizes he wasn't tough enough to play in that era so he always discredits "Michael Jordan's era" and praises the SOFT era because he knows the soft era would be the only era he could compete in.
Hard fouls, less skilled & worse shooting doesnt make an era tougher
Jj would have been cut during training camp
Yeah itâs tough to score when teams walk up and down the floor every play and have the least amount of possessions per game in nba history and the players arenât as good
No. Most people refer to Magic Bird and the Pistons when they say MJs era, but thats not his era. If Anthony Edwards starts winning rings next year will we say the 2020 bubble Lakers were his era? See how that sounds? Ridiculous
Each Team back then had 2 all stars .. An at least 1 HOF active player... Plus handchecking was allowed on defense... End game scores were 70-68.... The toughest era of NBA basketball of all time
Tell JJ Reddick to quit hating on Jordan and that era. It's crazy how people want to discredit Jordan or anyone in that era. It's just ludicrous
Youâre in your feels. JJ is factually correct
@@mathewdavis2427 No, he's not.
@@melvinhhcp3615yes he is lol? Do you think I he made that up? Itâs a fact 6 teams were created during MJâs era. He didnât even say an opinion he literally stated fact, and yâall took the bait. MJ cucks
Lebrons era gets âdiscreditedâ all the time. everyone says no one plays defense today. which is facts to a degree, but so is what JJ said. to a degree lol
Do you have the same energy for Lebron fans ?????
When lbj doesn't want to say things himself about MJ, he sends JJ Reddick.
Bingo!
The Win Average of the bottom 5 teams in the league during Jordan's Era was 22 wins...
The Win Average of the bottom 5 teams in the league during Lebron's Era is 22 wins...
Redick provided ZERO statistics or data to back up his ridiculous claim, no evidence, no insight whatsoever. It's interesting that he failed to bring up the Orlando Magic, given that he was talking to SHAQ! The Magic were one of those 6 'expansion' teams, added in 1989, and they became an incredibly strong and competitive team within only a few years of their addition to the league, drafting Shaq in 1992 and acquiring Penny Hardaway one year later! This 'expansion team' knocked the Bulls out of the Playoffs in 1995!
The Miami Heat was another one of the 6 expansion teams, added in 1988. They drafted Glen Rice in 1989 and though they initially endured a few seasons of mediocrity, Pat Riley's arrival as the new head coach in 1995 ushered in the Tim Hardaway and Alonzo Mourning era. Riley drastically transformed the new-look Miami Heat into a defensive-minded juggernaut and they quickly became championship contenders. They progressed all the way to the Eastern Conference finals in 1996-97 where they were defeated by the Bulls. The Heat would go on to become the #2 seed in the East in the 1997-98 season but eventually lost to the Knicks in the Playoffs.
The players that joined these 6 expansion teams weren't plucked off the streets, these were professional NBA players already drafted to other existing NBA teams. In an NBA expansion draft, the new NBA teams were allowed to acquire players from previously established teams in the league. Not all players on a given team were available during an expansion draft though, each existing team was allowed to protect a certain number of their players from being selected, thus giving them the power to retain their 'Star' players. In the 80's expansion for example, the existing teams were each permitted to protect eight players from their roster. Additionally, and this is a crucial point, the new 'expansion' teams had access to high draft picks during the next draft pick depending on their win %! These measures were all put in place to ensure the even spread of talent. Where is the evidence of the league being 'watered down'?!
Since his latest attack on MJ and the 80's/90's era, a lot of people are posing this question to JJ, including Udonis Haslem live on ESPN... What about the G League and it's significant impact on the current NBA roster? Over 50% of current NBA players have G League experience and a significant number of current players are signed to two-way contracts. Does that mean that the current NBA is 'watered down'? I would be very interested to hear Redick's response to that question.
Any objective and rational person can identify a pattern here... Lebron suffers defeat and like clockwork, along comes a Klutch Sports 'Plant' pushing the next ridiculous MJ narrative, void of any substance...
"But...but...but...Jordan played in a watered down league."
Klutch are running out of Jordan narratives, each one crumbling quicker than the last! They are becoming so desperate, they are having to recycle old narratives! Remember when JJ stated on live TV a few years back that MJ was being guarded by 'plumbers and firemen'? The only card they have left is to continue trying to diminish Jordan's competition. That's it! That's all they have, now that the Longevity card has failed. It's truly disturbing, that Klutch Sports will stop at nothing in their absurd attempts to elevate James to Jordan's level, even if that means having to diminish an entire era of basketball.
Say what you want about MJ but he NEVER used Nike or the Air Jordan brand to tear down another player or to discredit another Era. He respected the legends that came before him and allowed his Resume and his game on the court to cement his legacy.
Yâall blame Lebron for everything đ
â@@theresaking7020the win average isn't gonna change cuz there's more teams haha he's talking about watering down teams. In the 90's not every team had a superstar and no teams had 2 or 3 like the 70's, 80's and 2000's. Any impediment to MJ people go absolutely bonkers cuz of how obsessed they are with him.
@@datsapaddlin But it's true. Reddick about to be a new Lakers coach LMAO
đŻ
These kids are saying âweâre done with the 90sâ when the Nuggets are LITERALLY the most 90s team weâve seen since the Tim Duncan /Spurs era lol!! Only one super superstar, one all star and a bunch of great role players, no crazy talented players like they say the league is full of today lmao đ€Łđ€Ł
Ohh and the nuggets are winning btw lol đđđ
Tim Duncan is way more talented than you seem to be giving him credit for, he's literally the greatest PF of all time
@@luckerooni1153 Duncan is the greatest PF of all time but that doesnât change the fact that the Nuggets are the most 90s team since the spurs, no they havenât and probably wonât ever come close to what they did for 20 years, but they have they donât play flashy, well coached, and doesnât need a âsuper athletic talented big 3â just to win a championship. Just like the spurs
Nugeets have 3pt shootig center and 3 point shooterw all around. You make thigs ip
i see where you're going but most of the teams in the 90's was just back to the basket post-up game. Spurs were the exception because of Pop. 90's basketball was so boring because it was mostly iso's or two man action and made the game extremely predictable since nobody knew how to shoot outside of the perimeter
@@Parishdollaz0419 you don't watch basketball if you think this is close to what you saw in the 90s. They play through jokic in the perimeter because he can pass and has dunker spot players.. the 90s team play inside the three point line and they play through point guards and centers don't kick it out to three point shooters cause their three point shooter suck. Nevermind that you literally can't double without committing which is the stupid illegal defense rule. People here just be yapping while not watching 10 games of whatever team they talk about all season.
JJ smoking rocks đ
No, the NBA players in the 80's were smoking rocks.
Yeah Lebron's rocks
To specifically target JJ's comment about the Mavericks being added in 1981... JJ omitted the fact that they became contenders pretty quickly lead by Rolando Blackman, Mark Aguirre, Derek Harper..Maybe he didn't know and just assumed they sucked in the beginning. When MJ came into the league in 84, Dallas was a solid team already, better than the Bulls for sure.
That isn't his point, His point is that when the league adds new teams they always have to add new players AND do a protected draft for each team. So what JJ was saying is that the good teams were always going to be good because the great players got protected from being drafted to a new team, hence why he omitted the playoffs, but the regular season stats from players during this chaotic time should be irregular because teams were constantly going through expansion drafts.
I love when the ol heads start talking ball. I learn so much. I didnât know that.
â@MmaMadman85 bad teams exists in all Eras.
@@MmaMadman85 Thanks for the clarification. I just thought it was odd he specifically mentioned the Mavs, and then made his point about the league being watered down. So someone without knowledge of the 80s Mavs might assume they sucked during that period, precisely because of the things you mentioned.
This proves jj point
3:15 FOULED OUT FOR BAD BREATH!đ€Ł
đđđđđđ
Thatâs just objectively wrong thereâs an all time low for fouls and free throws. ESPN continues to spread blatantly wrong narratives
The more u foul the worse ur skills are
đ€Łđ€Łđ€Łđ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
If the GOAT standard is to win 4 rings with a stacked deck, and get the scoring record in a league with no hand checking, and losing 6 finals is permissible, then how could Jordan not do that?
Just 3 we aint counting the bubble
@@Joshua-oo1ogstupid casual đ all rings count. The bubble was arguably the hardest ring per players who actually played and was stuck in the bubble
@@daleahsampler3451 hardest when you didnt have to travel, not all the players decided to play, no crowd đ
@@Joshua-oo1oglol facts
Winning 4 rings with a stacked deck?
WTH do you think Jordan did to win 6 championships?.... He stacked the deck.
Donât forget, Jordan never won a championship without Pippen, & for their 6 championship runs, with the exception of points, Pippen led Jordan in every other statistical category (Reb, AST, BLK, STL).
You canât say playing next to Pippen (who was a top 5 player at the time), didnât make Jordanâs life a little easier.
On top of that, Jordan also had the luxury of playing under the greatest HC of all time in Phil Jackson, & was surrounded with solid role players (like Rodman, Harper, KukoÄ, Paxson, Kerr, Grant).
Who did LeBron play with that was better than Pippen, & which HC did Lebron play under that was better than Phil Jackson?
JJ couldn't even lace Jordan's shoes
Doesnât take away from his factual statement
ââ@@j.pipparker facts hahah you're funny. That's cap
.
â@@j.pipparkerJJ would've been like Steve Kerr at best back then. Averaging 6 ppg
@@fcarter3863Kerr could
literally only spot up and shoot, jj was flying off screens shooting on the move. Heâs leagues about Kerr as a player.
@@2robjenkins Reggie Miller averaged 18 ppg for a career with 6 20+ seasons running off screens in that era.
But JJ ain't no Reggie Miller.
JJ would average 6 ppg in that era
This has to be the most watered down era. Can't play defense anymore.
Thatâs crazy đ watch some playoff games bro. Except the pacers those niggas are trash on defense
Stay off the crack
Canât even trash talk. But can wear sus sheit đ
The ball handling today would have those plumbers looking stupid on defense
@@peepoo9171 prolly get called for travel and carries tho lol
Funny you part is that Rodman said the same thing but nobody will bring that up đ
he said that in comparison to the 80s because there were alot of superteams
He did !!!
@@jessemiller4970no he didnât đđ expansion teams automatically waters down competition
@@tkbaku3036and the league added 5 or 6 in a 5 year span.
Not just Rodman ... Stockton, Magic, Bird .... lol.
"you could foul out for having bad breath today" đ
Get these old heads out of here âfoul out for bad breathâ Thatâs just objectively wrong thereâs an all time low for fouls and free throws. ESPN continues to spread blatantly wrong narratives
@@mattsell2361 nobody asked you đ€Łđ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
â@@mattsell2361 The best basketball content is online. ESPN is drivel. You watch those games and they were calling phantom fouls all game.
JJ talking like he wasn't a modern day "plumber"
We all know who the real goat is⊠Brian Scalabrine
The real white mamba
Iâm just saying, heâs closer to LeBron than we are to him
đđ
@@nessdagoat#Facts đđđđ
Wrong itâs Thanasis Antetokoumpo
ALL I KNOW IS GREG OSTERTAG AND BRYANT REEVES ARE TGE GREATEST CENTERS OF ALL TIME!!!
So let me get this straight,
People don't like criticism of the old nba basketball era ???
But it's OK for people to to say criticism about the new nba basketball era ???
And they wonder why the modern gets hated when the entire media is old heads hating the modern nba and having nostalgia
"People don't like criticism of the old nba basketball era ???"
People don't like undeserved criticism of any era, if the criticism is refuted by stats and other arguments.
"But it's OK for people to to say criticism about the new nba basketball era ???"
It's OK to criticize any era.
The gate keeping is insane
it's beyond criticism, it's just disrespect at this point. there is a difference.
JJ Redick hates that era because he would never be able to play in that era. Not athletic enough to get a shot off with that defense.
Steve Kerr played in that era, please stfu
And you can say that that era would not do well in this current era, because they lack the skills required. The defense you speak of back than requires literally beating people and they had players on the roster to be goons and nothing more.
go watch a 90s game lil bro. we done w the 90s
It's because he knows deep down that era is more popular and iconic than his will ever be, the superteam Lerbon era will never be thought of as fondly and it eats guys like JJ up.
Yâall need to go watch the 90âs againđđ yâall was not that good
D 90s was better Food. Better Music. Better Sports. Real Women.
Yup
đŻđ
Lmfao then hos weâre busted bro. Keep the bbls aside women now fine af talk ainât going out like that to know đđđ
â@@BenBankoplease bro, now a days you get men who think they're women, sit down
@@BenBankoit doesnât matter how cute they are before and now there was no confusion about what a women was or less of a confusion
Jj would of been a bust in the 90s honestly
He was low key a bust in his era
Cap afđ§ąđ if Steve Kerr made it in the 90âs, JJ definitely making it
@@JB-bw8nj đ€Łđ€Łđ€Łđ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
@@rjeanes3885 Steve Kerr better than JJ
and MJ wouldnt be in the GOAT conversation if he played today- what is your point?
People love putting JJ on some pedestal but heâs wrong just as much as heâs right.
Heâs confident when heâs yapping
Heâs a professional talker
How is he wrong though? They never combatted any of his argument just that "Way harden back then!" arguments with no facts behind it
@@user-gc1wj8tt2p He's not wrong in this instance. I think they just get in their feels sometimes. He was completely out of line with the plumbers and firemen line though and a lot of the comments he's made about how strong this era is compared to 80s and 90s. The athleticism and skill argument is so played out btw and clearly only comes from people who've never watched. Footwork and ability to shoot midrange is basically dead in favor of chucking 3s.
Its amazing people still don't know jj is just a salty little man. Always gotta prove a point. What he did and what he does is better than u. That's clearly him. The money probably got to him once he got his first paycheck in the nba. The man is slick with his words. He can argue the sun isn't real and sound convincing . And the dummys will follow
UD in the cut was unexpected
Love the addition of UD
I honestly donât understand JJâs logic behind his argument. The mental gymnastics he had to do to come to that conclusion is mind boggling.
the logic behind his statement is that the AVERAGE player was not as good as today... He's talking about role players and bench players. dummy
His point was that they had just introduced a bunch of new teams and you canât expect most of those teams to build a competitive roster that fast. Therefore it makes sense that the league was overall more watered down.
@@BetweenTheLines3 how is that logical?
@@BetweenTheLines3but he later said the Dallas maverick build there team into contenders sooner than they shouldâve⊠so that completely nullifies your stance
Simple fact that teams had give up players to expansion teams means teams less talented
He didnât address anything JJ actually saidâŠ. Just said they should be grateful because they paved the way⊠Sounds like he doesnât disagreeâŠ.
Thatâs exactly what this is about. Itâs basically sacrilege to to say anything bad about players back then, but what JJ said is just basic facts and logic
Stephen A. was on point on this one...
He wasn't. He literally said we need to respect those before us and the 90's had hard fouls. Like all 90's fans, when faced with facts, goal post moving & deflection ensues. He debunked absolutely nothing.
@@Reaper13-hi3yoexactly I like listening to 90s old heads blatantly make stuff up itâs funny.
The NBA watering itself down by adding 90 players is the ONLY reason he even made the league........ what is this man saying
JJ have to be trolling đ.
The Pace is quicker because they don't let defense play Defense, that doesn't mean it's better.đđđ
There isn't a rule that stops defenders from giving an effort on defense. The very few players who give even a hint of an effort on defense, are immediately elite players in the league.
Lets go Udonis definitely good pick up for 1st take bro keep it đŻ
Hope he doesn't waste time with Stephen A. for too long. He should join some real analyst.
Great add with Mr Haslem!!!
Both Redick and Perkins routiniely discredit MJ to promote LeBron James because they know LeBron game and career is just not on MJ's level. For example - MJ was the best FINISHER of all time and its not even close - and that is well known. You just have to watch NBA videos on CZcams and its obvious MJ is the best finisher of all time. But Redick claimed during the Clippers-Mavs game that IT IS WELL KNOWN that Kyrie Irving is the best finisher ever. Perkins claims Kevin Durant is the best scorer of all time when it is obvious MJ is the best scorer of all time - just look at the numbers, take into account the eras they each played in, and watch how they each played the game.
Vice versa lmaoo
Your wrong on that look how many and 1 lebron got in his career, lebron is the best finisher ever, Jordan just looks better doing it
MJ is not rated as the best finisher ever. The new school cats have access to data to prove you wrong. LBJ owned that category đ
JJ is a sneaky Jordan hater lol though he admitted in his podcast with Tim Legler that for him MJ is still GOAT few months ago.
He crying about MJ bec his LeQueen is drinking wine with him in their podcast especially now LA is on their way to Cancun đ
@@jimmysimon4400 I think you are looking at "at the rim" stats where you will see alot of big men in the list - David Lee and Carlos Boozer for example. It is different than the top finishers.
Gotta be the dumbest take in history on questioning the legitimacy of Jordan's legacy smh. Guarantee that jj doesn't agree with that players teaming up in this era waters it down tho! đ
Love seeing UD on here. Real one doing First Take.â€đ
Love seeing Udonis!
When Reddick 1st joined the show, Stephen A. tried to bully him like Kellerman, now EVERY time he has to preface how much âhe loves him.â Kiss-up/scared đ
âsomeone makes a valid statement regarding the basketball eras..â
Anyone over 40âs response:
BAD BOY PISTONS!
Ngl this made me laugh and Im going on 41
đ look at Udonis face when SA mentions Bad Boy Pistons
I love how they did this. Respect, love đ€đ«Ą
If you watch the podcast, he's talking about the new teams coming in at the time were essentially free wins. Today those teams have assembled much better talent around them.
Exactly. Heâs correct but everyone is far too much in their feels to think rationally about it
But 4 of the 6 teams would establish themselves as playoff contenders during the 90âs tho so now teams had to contend with the new teams for a playoff off spot. Shaq and Penny were the result of the expansion and those mfers were doing their thing
Who cares about 5 or so wins in the regular season? It still doesn't make it watered down it's just an inevitable temporary consequence of expanding. It's actually the opposite, adding those teams and adding those additional draft picks and that added competition for players only increases the depth of the league.
It'd be like if I was JJ Reddick's shooting coach, and I told him he needs to start learning off ball shooting, and the first year he shoots worse than normal, am I watering down his shot? No, I'm expanding his shot selection, there's just growing pains.
@@luckerooni1153 There are growing pains and that's what waters it down. LMAO yall don't even have real arguments just "90s WAS THE BEST!" hornacek and danny ainge will not play this era.
@@suntansuperman26did you forget the fact that established teams literally got players taken off their rosters to fill the expansion teams. Thatâs what jj is talking about. It would be like the Celtics having to lose Al horford or the nuggets having to lose KCP
Why is this hard to believe? MJ wasnât watered down the league was
He literally said regular season not playoffs
Because the league didnât go around asking plumbers and builder to play basket ball they were pros from other teams man.
Because it's nonsense.
The Win Average of the bottom 5 teams in the league during Jordan's Era was 22 wins...
The Win Average of the bottom 5 teams in the league during Lebron's Era is 22 wins...
Redick provided ZERO statistics or any evidence whatsoever to back up his ridiculous claim. 6 teams were added over a period of TWO DECADES (4 in the 80's and 2 in the 90's). It's interesting that he never brought up the Orlando Magic given that he was talking to SHAQ! The Orlando Magic were one of the 6 'expansion' teams, (added in 1989) and they became an incredible team within only a few years of their addition to the league, drafting Shaq in 1992 and one year later they acquired Penny Hardaway! This 'expansion team' knocked the Bulls out of the Playoffs in 1995!
The Miami Heat was another one of these 6 expansion teams, added in 1988. Glen Rice was drafted to the Heat in 1989 and though they initially endured a few seasons of mediocrity, Pat Riley's arrival as the new head coach in 1995 ushered in the Tim Hardaway and Alonzo Mourning era. Riley drastically transformed the new-look Miami Heat into a defensive-minded juggernaut and they quickly became championship contenders. They progressed all the way to the Eastern Conference finals in 1996-97 where they were defeated by the Bulls. The Heat would go on to become the #2 seed in the East in the 1997-98 season but eventually lost to the Knicks in the Playoffs.
The players that joined these 6 expansion teams weren't plucked off the streets, these were professional NBA players already drafted to other existing NBA teams. In an NBA expansion draft, the new NBA teams were allowed to acquire players from previously established teams in the league. Not all players on a given team were available during an expansion draft though, each existing team was allowed to protect a certain number of their players from being selected, thus giving them the power to retain their 'Star' players. In the 80's expansion for example, the existing teams were permitted to protect eight players from their roster. Additionally, and this is a crucial point, these new teams were given access to high draft picks during the next draft pick depending on their win %! These measures were put in place to ensure an even spread of talent.
Where is the evidence of the league being 'watered down'?!
Because it wasnât. Hope that clears it up for you đ
I mean you canât debate this Lebrons era has been more talented and athletic. That happens with every sport, as training, science, etc. evolves players naturally become better, likewise as the popularity of a sport grows, competition to play in that league increases significantly. MJ had the greatest impact on the growth of basketball, kids grew up watching MJ wanting to be like Mike. Way more kids played basketball and trained to become a pro because of Mike. So in large part the reason the league is so competitive, the reason the players are so good is because of MJ, he inspired the rising generation of his time to want to become NBA players. So yeah thereâs no debate the Lebron played against tougher opponents
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Louder for the people in the back!!
"I mean you canât debate this Lebrons era has been more talented and athletic."
Can't debate? This era is less talented and less athletic than the 80's or the 90's.
"That happens with every sport, as training, science, etc. evolves players naturally become better"
Training is worse now, science has regressed, and the players are worse than ever.
"likewise as the popularity of a sport grows, competition to play in that league increases significantly"
The popularity and competition level have both gone down.
"So yeah thereâs no debate the Lebron played against tougher opponents"
LeBron played against dynasties in the finals, as did MJ, but MJ's final's opponents mostly weren't dynasties. But there's also worse basketball played in today's era, so tougher opponents can absolutely be debated.
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UD ! Much love from an Htown fan ! Happy to see him on
Keep udonis on the showâŒïž
Regardless of this being right or wrong, the problem with old heads is that they arenât even willing to have a conversation about the GOAT.. itâs always just their guy and nobody else can do anything about it. That kind of logic kills brain cells
Agreed
Nah, you just can't lose more championship rounds than you win and be considered the GOAT. 10 years from now we'll have guys like JJ Barea and Jason Terry talking about how they beat the brakes off yall's GOAT. Crazy thing is Lebron is closer to us "old heads" age than most of his fans. We're just calling it like we see it. No bias. The man simply hasn't done what it takes to surpass Kobe in reality let alone MJ.
@@mobb-media so getting to the dance means nothing? I agree 6 is more than 4 but just barely. Iâd rather have almost twice as many opportunities to have championships even if it ended up being 2nd place. Jordan hardly did anything in the playoffs before the championships but everyone acts like his career was only 6 years long.
JJâs argument actually disapproves his case rather than helps it.
Think of it this way, if the NBA adds 6 teams today then 90 players have to be added.
So all the players that didnt make the NBA can now get to go to the NBA.
Watered down, get it???
"You can foul out for having a bad breath today" lolđ đ€Ł
Glad to see UD on ESPN
Nothing SAS said actually addresses JJ's comments, adding teams means the next 90 dudes who werent quite NBA level (by a tiny margin no disrepect to them), this whole discussion was "it was more physical bc they hit eachother more"
Iâve been saying this. Honestly the 80s was better than the 90s
There's 180 more players on today's rosters. Adding roster spots means the next 90 dudes weren't quite NBA level. Add 90 two-way contracts on top of that who definitely aren't quite NBA level without an opportunity makes it even more watered down. Yall don't want to talk about that though.
JJ does realize that when expansion teams come in, or at least during Jordan's time. Expansion teams are only allowed to poach 8-12 rotation players from existing teams. And while its true that expansion teams tend to get high lottery picks, its because they stink in the first place like any other bottom dwelling team in the league. The top teams don't get the top picks anyway because they don't need them in the first place.
We need more Udonis on First Take and ESPN
Keep udonis on the SHOW
You know whatâs funny is that JJ was drafted by an expansion team
I guess every team is an expansion team then genius.
Shaq sat there and let him speak that foolishness.
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When you say I donât mean this!!! You really mean it đđđđ
I was waiting for UD to swear great job lmao.
The disrespect to the players that paved the way for future players is crazy. JJ Reddick should be thanking the Mark Prices, and Steve Kerrâs, and John Paxtonâs of the game.
I would take all the above over Reddick
Hes not even good enough to play in todays league fucks jj on....
Besides the payroll allegedlyâ@@ryanward3822
@@ryanward3822Agreed. I shouldnât have even put Mark Price and JJ Reddick in the same sentence. Mark Price was levels above him as a player.
What does opinion have to do with disrespect?
@@Painintheassss Heâs entitled to his opinion but it can still come off as disrespectful to others thatâs all Iâm trying to get at.
None of their arguments disqualified what jj said. They both went off about points that had nothing to do about the argument of watering down the NBA. When you can't win an argument, you change the argument. Both guys gave emotional arguments. Not facts!!!
They didn't change the facts jj didn't even explain why Jordans era is waters down. Expansion teams are the only reason?
I thought the same thing. He validated everything JJ said.
Lol that's because anytime anything can point to lebron being better jordans camp shuts it down. It pains them to admit it's way harder to win in the last 20 years vs previous eras. That's why there are no dynasties besides GS. In previous eras the same teams kept winning lol. Most teams who won won multiple titles. People are so glaze jordan happy they lose sense
@@johncarloflorentinoexpansion is a huge deal. Imagine every nba team losing a starter and their 6th man. Itâd be so much easier for top heavy teams to win. Also, imagine no international players like Jokic, Luka and Giannis playing. Itâd be easier to win against lesser competition. Doesnât take away from MJâs greatness. He could only beat who was in front of him post-expansion.
Don't worry, I'll do it for him with nothing but facts. An additional 90 players were added when rosters went from 12 to 15. THEN ANOTHER 90 added with 3 two-way contracts per team. That completely nullifies JJ's arguments. Not to mention the G-League having almost 30 teams with players that can be called up at any time. The expansion from 12 to 15 alone nullifies his arguments, the two-way contracts confirm that the league is even more watered down today.
More required physically and the game quickened knock it off. Load management and reduced back to backs.
More udonis please
MJ Era was watered down but not for the reasons JJ stated. NBA was drug riddled from 86-94 MJ earned everything he got but he definitely benefited from that he even mentioned it in "The Last Dance"
Uh? There was way more all-stars and HOFâs back then, Mj was talking some players not the whole nba⊠Mj was drafted in 83â not 86â, none of playoff teams bulls faced had players using drugs.
bird back injury and magic johnsons health made da 90 easier for him
@@nebch2324 research could help you or i could write the names of the players from the 80's to 90's but it would be too much that were either suspended for lengthy time for kicked out of league which in return made teams weaker. i like MJ like everyone else but there were not superstars like the 2000-2010's
@@hooligan5381 huh!? Iâm a 80âs baby and from Chicago so I know what mid 80âs playerâs played like. These players now donât care about the game, they just get there money and be out in the league in 6 years
@@nebch2324 you just yapping i don't think you understood anything i said i never said anything about the way players play i said from 86-94 the NBA was watered down cause it was drug riddled this is documented you can look this up. either way MJ deserved everything he got
I would disagree with JJ if Dennis Rodman and Larry Bird didn't say the exact same thing lol you can easily look up those quotes
They getting paid
JJ's argument about a watered down league applies to the modern era. He said about 90 players were added due to NBA team expansion. He didn't mention rosters were expanded to allow 15 players per roster which is about 90 players added to the NBA
Plus 3 two-way contacts adds ANOTHER 90. They don't want to talk about that tho.
You missed the point entirely
@@kingquestOZ there was no point! His argument isn't logical. If his point has merit then what I point out has just as much.
Love seeing UD behind the desk
JJ reddick knows way more about basketball then SAS. Thats why SAS doesnt have him on the show anymoređ
Facts
JJ is a Lebron jock sniffer. He's a clown.
c'mon man! c'mon man! what are you talkin bout?!? Racist. A Smith averaged 1.5 ppg in college! of course he knows more than JJ! oh wait...
@@bryanlee8304 đ€Łđ€Łđđ
Watered down? That's what it is today. Men played before mid 2000s, boys right now.
I've heard analyst say because at one point there were only 8 teams in the league that it was easier to dominate but now JJ saying by adding more people they made it easier. Make up y'all mind.
Udonis spoke facts with the two way contracts plus the one and done era which has impacted the league with all these young players
Youâre insane. The league is light years more talented than it was in the 80s
Two-way players don't even start. The 90s had 30 guys starting in an NBA game that wouldn't be in the league in 1987.
@@AuburnFanSince2010 Would those 30 guys play in today's league, if they had the same access to diet-plans, personal trainers and tactic related videos as today's players?
@@penkima4923 No.
Watered down? Guys r not even playing these days. They have to set parameters for them to even qualify for regular season awards these daysđ
JJ IS DOING HIS BEST TO HELP HIS FELLOW PODCASTER BRON... THIS IS HOW LEBRON WORKS HE GETS HIS PEOPLE TO DO HIS WORK WHILE HIS GAME DOESNT RELATE
People really think Lebron has a secret society where he spends all day scheming and manipulating people đ
@mattsell2361 the man has a whole team for that and if you didn't realize that then you are delusional..
@@ryankellz yeah so does like every celebrity itâs call a social media team lebron isnât special
@mattsell2361 exactly lebron ISNT SPECIAL but the NBA , Clutch sports, etc have treated him as such.. ya Boi got popped using hgh/peds but nothing happened to him.. there are receipts. Amd ya Boi ended up with a tumor in his jaw because of it and had to have 6hr surgery to get it removed. Main reason he wears the rick Ross beard.. that ya man not mine.. that was covered up by ESPN even though it was proven the BALCO CEO admitted it himself. ALSO let's not forget how the nba made sure le Ron's teams got draft picks, free agency exceptions, "play in playoffs", in season. Tourny, the man had to get a sports psychologist because of his anxiety from not performing and winning his first yr in Miami. I could go on amd on but the bronsexuals can't see passed the hair plugs enough to realize how he was carried his while career
Oh snap. Look at U.D. Happy to see him. Good pick up âđœ
JJ just keeps going with his lebron meet rydin đ
All the oldheads hate when people try to say anything negative about they childhood đđđđ
If you think that's it you don't get it
@@Suge8263 Oh, it definitely is it. You 90's fan will do anything to protect your nostalgia & bias.
Jordan plays today he isnt even in the GOAT convo
i'm 28 and i think basketball before adam silver / this player empowerment bs was so much better
@@paulmccarthy4277 anyone who is 28 dosent say â Iâm 28 â đđđ
JJ is right tbh. We ainât brining in 90 G leaguers at a time. Plus they all ride the bench. Back then they were starting.
Please go look up history 4 of the 6 expansion teams were contenders in the 90 the league is watered down now because of g leaguers betting on gamez
â@@DM-sc9rg yep magic, heat, hornets are all contenders
90 new players can not start. It's mathematically impossible.
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How can 90 players start on 6 new teams? What yall wont talk about is the fact that the only new players added to those expansion teams were rookies the vast majority of the time. The every team protected 8 of their 12 players on the roster, everybody else was up for grabs in the expansion draft. Yall act like they found 90 new guys off the street and said "hey you're tall, wanna play in the NBA"? The unwarranted hate for the history of the game is bogus af. But yall going to learn. Wait until people are telling you Harden, Paul, and Westbrook were scrubs.
Udonis haslem is a beast. I hope they keep him around, what a great analyst.
UD DA OG, LOVE THE POD UD!
Stephen A been hating on JJ since he got that pod with Lebron. JJ ainât wrong not one bit tho. If you play high level basketball you know. If you listen to the whole statement dude said âNOT including the playoffsâ so using the playoffs as a counter is irrelevant.
You obviously didn't play at a high basketball level if you think jj is right... this Era now is waaaay watered down then the Mj Era
@@marvjay718 watered down with more specialist. So it evens out right? đ argue with ya maw
You def not wrong about the jj hate lol. I just feel like the regular season being âwatered downâ is irrelevant considering his opponents in the postseason. JJ made a strong point when bringing up the new teams and players but MJ could have gone 300-0 to these teams and it would not have mattered if he couldnât beat the teams contending for a chip. Which he did beat.
Just because the blazers and the pistons were god awful this year doesnât mean the league was watered down.
JJ on crack
What makes jj statement. Flaw. Is the fact that when Jordan played, the east was the toughest conference. When LeBron played the east was the weakest conference. And he still stacked his teams. To try and win
And now that he went to the west. He's been having problems. But when Jordan played the centers, and the power forwards were paid to keep everyone out of the paint and grab rebounds. Which made the game more physical. But in today's game. The big men, are more athletic, and are better shooters. Which spreads the floor and leaves the paint wide open. But in Jordans day when the big men, which most were 7footers. Still couldn't stop him from scoring. And then Jordan has never been accused of taking peds,taking games off. Quitting own his team, or flopping. That's why Jordan is the goat
IS THAT UDONIS âUNCâ HASLEM!!!!! Lol that is a pleasant surprise I didnât catch the show today but I hope he comes back đđż
JJs right though. The expansion did help make it easier for the Bulls. Even RODMAN admitted that...
There's more teams and players in the league now, that there were in the 90's.
There are a lot more good teams now than there were back then. MJ wouldn't have won 6 rings in this era
You literally canât play defense nowadays, so is that actually true that teams are better? Or do the rules favor teams being able to put up better numbers versus back thenâŠ
steph curry got 4 but MJ wouldnt get 6??lol
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@@Democed keep living in the past oldhead
@@1anth a lot easier to play defense when only one or two players on the floor can shoot 3s
Old heads stay nit picking the new era but get all in their feelings when people do it to their era.
Of course it water the game down. In 1988-89 There were 3 teams in the East that won 18 or less games. 2 of which were new franchises. It took the Heat 4 season to get there first 30 win season and took them 6 season to get there first winning season. Orlando didn't have a winning season until they drafted Shaq 6 years after creation. The grizzlies didnt win more than 20 games until 8 years after. The team that was probably the luckiest was the Timberwolves. They got KG 2 years after creation and were good almost immediately.
Orlando started in the 90 season. Shaq was drafted after the completion of the 3rd season. So yeah, not 6 years into their inception.
JJ was trash overrated
Stay off the crack
That was not the point that JJ was talking about.
exactly lol, theyâre debating a whole different topic
Before yâall go hating on JJ for a valid question, Rodman made the same comment during the 90âs when asked about the league possibly being watered down
Yeah that was a topic in the 90s yet people forgot that apparently đ
By JJ's logic, Jokic is the GOAT now. Lebron played in the 2000s.
Lebron played when real men played
I agree with jj from the stand point of expansion teams being added took the competitive level down because teams had to now spread the talent around you couldnât get those laker Celtic pistons stacked teams in the 90s
JJ Reddick is going to be remembered more for saying blasphemy than his game on the court and thatâs a fact. Say that. đŻ
JJ has a podcast with Lebron. Which makes his Jordan takes watered down.
1:12 â Itâs okay to disagree with people you like.â All time SA quote đŻđ„