The Mystery of Audio Cables: Truth or Myth?
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- čas přidán 24. 09. 2020
- Audio cables! Nothing has inflamed more the audiophile community and the truth/myth debate. Are cables just snake oil? Do they have an effect on our system's sound quality? What evidence do we have to confirm or to deny this claim?
Melius Club forum (Italian):
melius.club/topic/249541-usb-...
Darren Meyers words (p.3):
www.psaudio.com/wp-content/up...
#audiocables #audiomyths #hificables - Hudba
I don't have a super audio system, I don't have a lot of money. But I can say that the day I upgraded my cables from standard ones to serious cables it was like I've bought a new system. I know a lot of people will comment saying I'm selling snake oil. I don't care about mesurements,. I care about music because music is what I listen to. Better cables, better sound. Just try to put a serious cable on a pair of Hifiman Sundara: it's like taking away fog from the window you're looking through and see the world outside clear and property defined. My two cents based on my experience. Thank you for bringing out the cables argument, it's always worth talking expecially when it comes to analog music
I had the very same experience,and was shocked at the difference.
Thanks for sharing your honest experience!
Thanks for sharing.
Please mention brand of cables
@@faludabutt8253 I use Audioquest
I thought this was a perfectly reasonable discussion of a typically unreasonable subject.
In theory I just don't understand how cables could make as much difference as people claim. I don't want to believe. On the other hand, I've had a few experiences that defy my own logic. I understand some of the theories, but no one has yet explained why these things would really make enough of a difference to matter on a practical level. And if these theories are correct, then why can't someone create a test that can actually measure the differences objectively, with numbers? I do realize that we can only find what we look for, so a light meter isn't going to find differences in temperature and a volt meter won't show us differences in amplitude. I understand that there are things that people claim we don't measure, but if they exist, then why doesn't someone measure it and show everyone?
Finally, to add to what the host of this video says, it's important to put things in perspective. When the perspective shifts, we sometimes think that the claims are greater than they really are. Within a microcosm of observation we can talk about "night and day differences," but what is truly being examined is a very small margin around an overlooked assumption about other factors. Yes I'm sure we could find easily detectable differences in cables with very sensitive equipment, but compared to other larger issues, like the infiltration of noise from outside of a listening room, they often don't have any practical meaning.
In principle: of course cables matter. Everything matters! But do they make enough difference to have a practical impact on what we will hear? The answer depends on the situation.
Thanks. Thanks also for your reflections that I find quite fitting.
I made my own speakers and after soldering the crossovers and drivers I noticed it sounded gritty compared with not soldered (just twisted connections so I could experiment). So now I DON'T solder the + terminal on the hf driver. I do solder the terminal itself but I cut the wire (just before the terminal) and twist it together with a LOT of twists for a good connection. lol That's my "snake oil". If you are interested try it on your hf driver and see if it sounds less gritty and way more silky. I can't understand why so much difference but there was cos I could easily hear the difference.
Its like asking a religion to prove that their god exists :)
Andy B: You were asking me what clock is, on a post that is now gone.
It is the most crucial part of the signal. The deepest root of what makes music sound good.
It is on the router, on the streamer, DAC, CDP, class-d amps. It is the holy grail of our sound, and not enough manufactors give it enough attention. (because 99.99% of them, still have cdp clock on that same powercable that feeds the rest of the signal on cdp. Same goes with streamers, and that creates jitter.)
And most of the things that we change on our HIFI chain is way past that original signal, meaning that it actually amplifies what is bad with the sound. Stuff like: AMP,s Speakers. It is the main reason why we are so far away from the optimal sound.
If you can change the quality of clock on a device, and keep the power of that clock separate on a unit like a CDP or Streamer. You begin to have 10x more effect on the sound, and save a lot of money.
That is one of the main reasons why a 10k amp, can outperform a 100k amp, or same situation with a speaker.
And yes especially with a bad clock, and pretty high quality gear combined with that, then cables can have a bit too much influence on the sound, which was my original point. One way of combating that is to shorten the cable, and control the clock and noise. (easier said than done)
Uptown audio isoregen, is one of those devices.
And the external LPSU makes it bypass the streamers on clock. Basically simulating components in the streamer that would normally cost 10x more.
Pretty neat :-)
I look forward to a future where normal companies, creates stuff like CD players (CDP) and streamers, that have these external clock boxes with a really good LPSU to drive them.
Andy B
our hearing system is much more complex than we can currently understand, so we do not even know what to measure in the cables that give us information regarding their sonic characteristics. And finally, these measures would not be of much use, since the important thing is, not how it behaves in a laboratory with certain equipment, but how it behaves in our room with our equipment. therefore the numbers are not relevant.
when you have a balanced system in a suitable room. your speakers correctly positioned, that's when your cable tests will reveal remarkable informational details. The measurement system you should trust, it's you, if you want improve your system, YOU MUST TRY.
Hi, I've seen a lot of videos of you and you brought some things closer to me in an understandable way. Thanks a lot for this. I didn't believe it before, but high-quality power cables or a line filter strip produce an incredible amount of sound. Even balanced cables from the Dac to the amplifier bring real benefits. You also brought me to Oyaide cabel. Keep it up. Greetings from Germany.
Thank you so much! It is a pleasure and an honor to be listened and trusted.
Awesome!
I've tried a few things that made a big impact: (1) replaced standard power socket with Oyaide R1, (2) Using Naim power extension with high quality copper, (3) built my own power cables with hifi plugs and Romex wire, (4) built my own interconnects with Van Damme LC-OFC. I must say the largest impact was (1) and (2). I had a Panamax power filter / surge protector in it and after that was replaced the sound became a lot cleaner, crisper, unleashed and natural sounding. Not sure how much the Romex power cables and interconnects did, but then again I was probably changing too many things at the same time to properly notice (I know a mistake), but I am very happy with my sound.
Removing a surge protector in the power line is really a good idea (NOT).
Back in the Nineties we did blind tests as students where we had a handfull of different RCA-cables made up from about everything that was available in the house including different coaxial- and networking cables, one audiophile cable and the stuff that had been thrown in the boxes with our devices. We found differences for sure and reproducibly so but only in the most exaggerated cases where you could hear a loss of high frequencies. The rest where just a matter of taste or even illusion that may vanish the next day when you are in a different mood. In the end we concluded that any decent cable will do and it is more important to care about elsewhere in the chain. We just stopped worrying too much about this matter. RCA-cabling can make a difference but only a small one. If you find it's just the right icing on your cake: More power to you!
Cool!
I use to think the cables were a lot of snake oil. However, I think the smaller the signal the more important that you have a good quality shielded cable. I recently had my 43 year old turntable serviced and my turntable tech suggested that we replace the factory cables with some nice shielded ones to run to my phono stage; we also re wired the tone arm with new litz wire too. One thing that I noticed almost immediately was just a slightly lower noise floor & a little more definition on the highs; on my vinyl. Keep in mind still running the same cartridge and stylus; but things were just a bit clearer for certain dynamics when the record would get really busy. Other things that I do to try and reduce EMI and noise; try to route all my power cables down and away from all my unbalanced signal wires where they are shielded or unshielded. I don't believe in power conditioners; but all my gear is attached to a full sin wave UPSes. Having that UPS protects some of my gear that I deem priceless to me; but also cleans up the power going into the linear power supplies in both my amp, pre-amp ect.... Depending on the room and what else is around; I have found I can sometimes get away with unshielded speaker cable; but if the wires have to run near a lot of electrical devices its best to get a decent shielded speaker cable.
You are absolutely correct about lower level signals being impacted by noise. Often the difference in cables comes down to spatial details due to a lower noise level, and cables are antennas.
Whatever you change in your system (equipment, cables or acoustics), the sound change, and that's physics.
If your system can perceive it or not is another matter. the difference between the strongest and weakest audio signal has a factor of 10,000: 1, and that's only in the aspect of the amplitude of the signal, which is the simplest one. Most of the information that weak signals have, concerns timbre details and spatial information, and this can be lost anywhere in the audio chain. That is why it is so difficult to distinguish a change at some stage, if the information relevant to the change has already been lost before.
One needs to identify the weak parts of our system and work on them until the best balance is obtained, when we are close to this balance it is more likely to identify changes in the cables. Since the changes have to be those that are manifested in our system and judged by ourselves, that is why it is the most difficult point to obtain. But if YOU WANT TO IMPROVE your system, you have to try, but not for 5 minutes, at least 1 week of use. But YOU MUST TRY
Not really. The vast majority of cables are beyond good enough so there will be no difference.
Yes I believe in having speaker cables. Without them, no sound will come out of the speakers
😆
You would make a good scientist
Good one!
I know exactly what you're talking about in the listening versus statistics and measurements. They believe they don't have to listen if it measures right. I think (myself) that EVERYTHING in the system, matters and is audible. Period!. I think a lot like you do. Were very honest when it comes to audio. And everything else also, but were talking audio. It's very, very refreshing! Listening matters more than stat's. Measurements do matter as a ground basis. But not all cable's are created equal.
That's because the ears are only the first in the chain of listening
Good topic as usual. I stopped arguing with people about cables long time ago. Specially those who are not willing to even try. You are a good man for still trying to spread the message.
Thanks man!
@@anadialog I always wanted to ask you if you use linear power supplies for your turntable and the phono preamp ?
I'm a new vinyl enthousiaste. 1 year With a project essential 3 turntable, my 1st turntable. I tried an ifi ipower linear power supply and it made a big change. Remove distortion I've been experiencing with my turntable. I wonder if i put one in the phono preamp if I'm gonna gain more 😀
But for my first experience with analog, I really like it.
When possible, external power supplies, as I have said in some videos, are always a good idea, especially with phono pre-amps. I have changing several models so in the past I did but now, no. In some cases it's also a good idea to change the stock PSU with an audiophile grade one. In fact, I wanted to do a video in the future on this topic.
P.S. welcome to the community!
@@anadialog thanks !🙏🏾 I'm glad I joined the club.
Yes I think the same about PSU. Before adding the analog part in my system. I use audiophile PSU on my dacs and filtered power strip for my entire system. Everything sounded more analog.
Obviously different from a vinyl but nonetheless exciting.
Great video!. I used to be a cable naysayer years ago until an audio friend of mine asked me if I’ve ever tried an aftermarket power cable on my setup? I said nope he said he’d loan me one to try and see what I thought. So I put the cable in not expecting to hear any difference but the first 10sec on the song I was listening to my jaw hit the floor .
It was as if I was sticking my head into the recording booth. Well after that I was hooked and with every aftermarket cable I tried I had a noticeable improvement with my system.
Moral of the story try if before you knock it, you might just be missing out on a ln improvement with your system.
Thanks for sharing that!
Thank you for an excellent review of a difficult topic. I have been a lifelong listener of music on several pieces of equipment and am a firm believer that every time I change a cable I am able to appreciate the improvement or degradation of sound quality. Most recently I tried DIY power cord from a reputable cable and connector maker ,costing several hundred pounds,and was very disappointed by the smearing and defocusing of sound. When I wrote to the vendor I was shocked by the response , that this effect is not possible by a power cord. I totally agree with you and other experts that it is the subtle change in Quality which either pleases your ears and brain or makes you dislike the sound. No measurement in lab can substitute the perception of sound by an individual .
Well, let's spread the info! No problem on my side. Who is this vendor?
As an analogue photographer.....I shoot film and have done since 1985....i draw a comparison to the search for perfection in lenses.....it's all human psyche......in lenses we have the mtf curves which are scientific charts which show to put it simply how good a lens is on paper......but then you may use it and not like the flavour of the lens......it may be the sharpest and be able to give the best contrast but when you use it and say take a portrait it may not be the look you want..........in lenses the science and the human eye do not go hand in hand......for example.....my favourite lens is a 1973 Hasselblad C lens that is soft and low on contrast but it has something special about it when you shoot people with it........numbers and the nature of humanity do not always go well......importantly though as humans what happens to us when we have perfection? The Holy grail must never be achieved or else we have no journey to go on and as we all know in here the journey of curiosity and trial and error and the fact there is always something out there that can be what we are looking for is what drives the passion.......with perfection where does the passion go? What becomes of us when we know we can't do or become better? Long live the search.......
I think you made some valid points here. I personally definitely need to experience more and different gear. But as you said it takes some time and money. I'm super curious about the differences, and I'm always searching for them. One point you missed is the receiving end of things: the human listening. I think we all are different and so are our hearing capabilities. For myself I think there is a diminishing return from what I can hear and to be honest my personal limiting factor in this equation is my own hearing. My gear is in the lower mid level, 300-500€ headphones and 200-400€ dacs etc. I did notice a great differents coming from cheaper stuff, but if I try more expensive gear I cannot tell a real difference and would probably fail my own a-b testing to be honest. But I'm still curious to experience this quest for myself to ultimately find what I really like and what fits my music best.
I totally agree with you, there is a difference and it becomes smaller the more high end your gear is.
True when we are talking of subtle differences. Drastic differences are more or less objective.
Thanks, great to hear your experience with cables... Truth!! To be honest I never thought about swapping the existing power cables until a friend of mine said there’s an audible difference with higher end cables. At the end of the day, if you can’t hear any differences, stick with the original power cables and that’s great... on the other hand, if you hear a difference and if that’s brings a more immersive listening experience then change it! I borrowed 3 cables and wanted to experiment and hear whether I heard any differences... so 1st cable was about 250 dollars, 2nd cable 500 dollars and lastly tried a 1000 dollars cable. I used the same track 3 times (CD, Vinyl and streaming), then shut my eyes and really tried to hear any subtle differences. What happened, and this is from my own experience, was truly surprising... why am I hearing differences in more expensive cables? Seriously I was flabbergasted and because sound and the overall soundstage and imaging just touched me. So yeah you’re wondering what cable did I choose in the end? Haha well I got the higher end cable and I am very happy about it. Let’s not forget, music is very subjective... thanks again and don’t forget:”Music is born analogue” - cheers!
Thanks for sharing that!
ANA [DIA] LOG ... First, I want to thank you for this great video. I agree with you 100% ... I myself have 5 different cables such as, speaker cables, interlinks, RCA Cabels. Power cables and the cheapest cables ... The last cables are from Siltech Gold, Silver, Carbon, Copper, etc ... I have tested and changed many times ... I can certainly say that I hear a difference ... But difference also has to do with how you feel, and how you listen and what time you listen ... Sometimes you hear more difference than other times ... That's because we are not perfect ... And because we are not continuous listen in the same way ... It is also logical that Gold, Silver or Copper are different materials ... That sounds logical anyway ... With my High-end equipment I hear a clear difference when I change my cables ... Thanks again for this video ... Keep going and of course see you next time ... Love and peace and of course High-end ... Music was born analog ... Greetings from the Netherlands Limburg Maastricht ...
👌👍✌😉😘
Thanks Javier!
Very good analysis. I firmly believe in cables from power chords interconnects and to a lower degree digital cables.
All this is based on listening to music on my home system. I have siltech cables Kimber Cardas câbles and I assure you I have kept them because they improved my system on my aspects
Thanks for having the courage to put out a video on this rabid controversial topic. Yes, in my experience, connectivity of all sorts: speaker wire, power cords, interconnects, and even optical cables impact the performance of a system. Even though the impact may be subtle it can be also profound at the same time and I agree it's usually system dependent and yes there is no substitute for experience.
I have tried a variety of different wire (speaker, p.c., i.c., and o.c.) manufacturers and have experienced mixed results. I have been happy with the results from Oyaide Neo class A interconnects, Wire World Aurora series overall, Isotek Evo3 Initium, QED XT 25, custom wire terminated with Furtech, Wire World or Sonic Craft Xhadow RCA's, Sonor Quest ends on power cords, a variety of cables from Signal cable, and Shunyata Venom power cords. Also I do make it a point to use Tripp Lite surge protector with limited line filtering/conditioning along with Emotiva CMX-2 with happy results. I have been very disappointed with Wire World Electra products and anything I've tried from Audio Quest, Chord, and Pangea.
I have tried Mogami patch cable and thought it was fair coaxial cable, and have also tried Canare speaker wire and thought it made whatever system and music I was listening to sound very dull. Also, a few years ago I bought a couple of power cords from Cullen Cable and the results were only fair at best.
Thanks for sharing!
Have you tried oral sex?
You hit the nail on the head when you said we don't like buying this stuff, I made my own power cables and need to make some interconnects for my reel to reel due to the length required.
Good job! It's just the best solution!
I personally have done little experiments on this particular issue but my opinion is that it will be somewhat system dependant. Also, in order to build up a great personal listening space, everything matters. Thanks for covering this topic.
The brain is very fascinating in how it can trick yourself into believing in things that aren’t actually real.
When people buy expensive cables, most will hear a difference and a better quality sound.
Even though that “difference” is actually just from your own brain tricking you into believing that there is a “difference”.
Our human brain does not like to be disappointed after buying expensive things.... that’s fact.
There has been many double blind tests conducted between expensive and cheap audio cables already. The results are very conclusive that there is no difference in sound quality.
Do the same test with same cables again but this time reveal which is the expensive cable beforehand. The result will be overwhelmingly that the expensive cable is better...
Ton AMG
The only place you need to do test, is in your place. The only person to judge if something is better, is you. If you are fine with your cables, that’s the important, enjoy the music
Ton AMG. Spot on! 👍
I bought measured and heard the difference, it not like this , you should have also good system to go under that skin to hear it .
It like each time you shave your face in mirror, when mirror has fog still you recognise your face but with clean mirror you can see the details on your face
This. Finally a sane person in the comments.
I bought an expensive cable and heard the difference, but preferred the cheaper one. How would you explain this?
I remember when I was young, with a NAD 3020 amp, turntable and tuner, and I don't now recall which speakers, the biggest upgrade I did was to replace the speaker cables. Then seeing, or rather hearing how much an improvement those cables made I also upgraded the analogue interconnects (In the 1970's we didn't know that DACs existed) and found another noticeable improvement. I am now totally convinced, and I do spend money on cables. And I notice a difference with digital interconnects too, on changing from the free ones in the box, to those I buy. As a former Metallurgy student, and an amateur musician I wonder if the crystalline structure of the metal has an impact (as it does with musical instruments)?
Great video, good points. I feel cables in many cases are likely to be different. And some my be more universally appealing to most. A large psychological error may be made by some who by the fact of ownership may change their preference. Obviously we do need a university test lab where this variable also is taken out. I also feel many who say they think cables don’t make a difference are often similar to how some do not appreciate a beautiful performance car for example. Some appreciate an amazing Audi, Tesla or Ferrari. In every thing in life there are different qualities, from the ground, air and water to the man made. Some can taste the difference in different drinking water around the world others think it’s all the same. It may be likely there are more difference in people and their experience than a piece of cable. Seems there are too many variables, personal preference and experience to make one definitive statement about all especially without more clear and honest research.
True! Especially your analogy with water. I taste great differences but a few of my friends just don't pick them up.
ANA[DIA]LOG on an different but interesting subject I just ordered a GoPro!😊
I appreciate fine differences, which is why I can detect changes based on psychological factors due to expectation or mood or alertness etc. Even with the same equipment , it can sound better or worse depending on what I'm feeling.
I like the word experience and listening for the nuances. I am a scientist myself, and when I first got into this hobby the whole cable makes difference was craziness. Then I started trying to play around with it a bit and yes, you start hearing, sometimes subtle differences and sometimes big differences. I tend to attribute it to EMI and RF interferences in most cases. One also has to keep in mind the electrical properties of the cable. Balancing the amount of inductance, conductance, resistance. Too thin of a speaker cable is not a good idea as you increase resistance, but too thick >10awg makes you run into other issues such as skin effect. If one wants to finely balance treble and bass and not using balanced cables this needs some attention (depending on your system). As for how much you should spend, I can’t and work comment on that. Money doesn’t grow on trees for me and I make judgement calls to decide what will give me a level of upgrade after all that I have spent to finally enjoy the music I want to listen to. If you are happy with what you are hearing don’t bother. You are golden and you don’t have to spend the money on it to appease other or show off. If the subtle thing start to bug you as you experience audio more then you may have to invest in it a little and try and see if that’s what’s at the root of the problem or something else.
Skin effect has no influence whatsoever.
Greetings,
In the early 1980's, high-end speaker cables were beginning to appear on the market. Some of the product claims were totally unbelievable and had prices to match. And, the nonsense is still being foisted on us today.
Audio cable must be burned or run-in for a 100 hours. The best cable is cryogenically treated. Audio cables are directional. They must be supported off the floor via insulators. They have damping factors. They must be 'conditioned' to keep the wire molecularly aligned. Ad nauseam. It is all snake-oil designed to part the naive buyer from his money. It is all a crock!
The ONLY factor that affects performance of audio cables is the wire gauge for a particular maximum distance between amplifier and speakers at a particular Ohm rating. If you have the proper gauge, all audio cable will sound exactly the same!
"Realizing that wire resistance was the critical factor in speaker wire, Gordon Gow, then President of McIntosh Laboratory, still a maker of world-class, high fidelity amplifiers used a speaker cable demonstration to show there was no listening difference between high-end audio cables and plain line cord (14 AWG lamp cord wire).
Fifty-foot lengths of wire were used in the blind comparison. The setup consisted of a master control relay box and two slave relay boxes. A three-position switch was used to select one of three different speaker cables of equal length. One was common 14 AWG line cord. The other two cables were from popular high-end manufacturers. 8-ohm speakers were selected for the test. The two other brand name cables were heavier than the line cord. The test proved his point. No one could hear ANY DIFFERENCES using several different 8-ohm speaker systems." -- from Speaker Wire, A History by Roger Russell.
I am completely in your corner with this one. I had a (audiophile) life changing experience nearly 30 years ago. I did not know there was a difference in cable sound..just shielding. I was buying from Audio Advisor and the salesmen were knowledgable. I was upgrading equipment and getting additional new cables here and there. One salesmen suggested I try this "Cardas Quadlink". It wasn't that expensive so I said sure. I didn't have any clue about what was "high end" or not. I got it and it was only .5 meter long (why it wasn't;'t so expensive). I thought that was weird for the price but I needed the cable.The difference was dramatic. Without anyone else telling me, I could hear the base was punchier and more pronounced. The highs were more detailed..not subtly but noticeably. I later bought a much longer set for tube mono blocks to the same effect. So it wasn't a matter of length. I hear cable differences all the time no matter the cost. I've gotten "high end" cables that didn't sound good in my system. So it's not an effect of the "High End" placebo effect. I wish I didn't hear those differences like a lot of audiophiles. Like you said, we could use the money on more equipment!
Cool, thanks for sharing that!
Great video. I believe cables do make a difference but one needs to try try try for themselves. At least in the US, one can get great return policies from lots of different stores. So try them out. But one thing you did it mention is that a better quality cable will almost always have better connections. The crappy XLR cables that come with some gear have very bad connectors. Just having a firm and no slip connection is very important.
True!
You are a 100% right! Congrats! And especially with the argument that a relative inexpensive gear will benefit a lot more with a good quality cable! I'd experienced that my self!
PS ; Because of you (and thanks for that) I've purchased one of tbe great decks - the mighty Phillips N4520! 👍 👍
Cool!!!
I simply don’t understand why a few people don’t believe in cables. Take the simple kimber pbj interconnect for example - they are thin, teflon sleeved and weaved. Just compare it to a regular freebie interconnects. Then switch to say a kimber select - now that changes the sound again. Lets then take the phono leads. Litz wires make a huge difference. If less than 2-inches of wires make a difference then what more of a 1-metre interconnect
Those differences are all measurable my dude, and kimber publishes them.
I didn't want to get heavily in to the audio game and especially not in to the cables, but I ended up with a system I liked and was happy with for a while but one days wanted to upgrade. I had a Hifiman Sundara, loved it, but then a Focal Clear MG went on sale for 60% off so I bought it. I bought a Focal Radiance too for 60% off on that same sale to have a closed back pair. I ended up buying a bigger Amplifier and then a bigger DAC to go with it before realizing I should have bought a different Amplifier instead, so I bought that one, then bought a balanced cable, then replaced the USB cable and have a power cable on the way..... It never ends. But hey look I'm not going in to debt, and I enjoy this stuff, and every time I put my PC on and grab a pair of my Focals I just get excited to listen to music or play a game, and it's actually got me glued to my PC again, so no regrets I guess.
I can confirm every single point you make in this video, especially your observation about the improvement good quality cables can make to a good / maybe not so good consumer quality amplifier / receiver. My system consisted of an upgrade in 1999 to a $1,000 Yamaha RX-V1000 AV receiver, expensive for me at the time, and speakers that I made myself out of parts from some speakers that were discarded by my neighbor when he moved to a new location. I took the horns out of the JBL speakers model unknown with blown woofers, bought a book on how to make speakers, and replaced the woofers with the best ones money could buy from Radio Shack at the time, I had to make the speakers myself to fit the cabinets I built on either side of a fireplace in my living room.
Fast forward 25 years, kids are grown, I have more disposable income, and Amazon Prime Hi-Res Music has opened my ears to what I had been missing in my favorite music all my life. My system was OK, but I knew from my research reading and watching CZcams videos like the one's you make, that there were inexpensive tweaks and things that I could do to get better sound from my system, and they worked. But now my curiosity took on a whole other level how much more performance can I squeeze out of my system which led me on a long journey of discovery into the audio file realm. Invariably the question of, is there anything to these high priced cables claims, I was told by a satellite installer years ago that high priced cables were a scam and a rip off, and no better than the stock cables that came with the system he was installing.
So I decided I was going to test a few higher quality USB cables from Amazon but nothing too exotic or expensive, I got 2 different one's to start with a $7 Amazon Basics and a $70 AudioQuest Pearl, to get the sound from Amazon out of my computer and into my Parasound P6 preamp I have sitting on my desk. I decided I needed to take a sizable but affordable jump up in quality to see if there was a perceivable difference. I heard improvements in both actually, but the AudioQuest was a huge improvement, so this test put to rest the debate once and for all, in my mind anyway, there IS a difference between cheap free cables that come with audio equipment and a higher quality cable, more detailed highs, and better fuller sounding mid range to be specific.
The dilemma now was, where does the law of diminishing returns kick in, because there was a huge price range gap between where my proof of concept started and the ultimate price one could pay for a USB cable, about $600 dollars to be exact. I stuck with AudioQuest cables because that was the best Amazon had to offer, I now realized in order to find the sweet spot in the law of diminishing returns I was going to have to buy cables at least up to the second highest level to do a proper analysis, there was no way I was going to spend $650.00 on a single .75M USB cable, no matter how good it sounded, or so I thought at that point anyway.
So the Coffee level was my limit, at about $250.00, that cable is the first to include Silver in it's content, but only 10% I believe, and it has something attached to the cable that is found on this level and the top level Diamond version. A device that has a high voltage battery that when you push a button supposedly floods the inner shielding with ions again supposedly to prevent any RF or EMF interference from being able to be introduced because the cable is already saturated to the point that there is no more room for any interference.
I can't say weather that is legit or a gimic, but what I can say is the Coffee cable made a game changing improvement over the Pearl, all the sudden the bass range came to life, something that was always lacking in all the previous cables, the definition in the highs and mid range also improved, the result was perfect balance, nothing was over emphasized across the entire spectrum, it sounded fantastic. I immediately bought two more Coffee USB cables to use in my office system and on my aforementioned Yamaha system in my living room.
This became a very expensive revelation, I now knew I had to replace all my crappy cables with some level of Audio Quest cables.
During this process I ended up discovering the sound improvement that would come from their top of the line (at the time) Angel Falls RCA interconnect by a lucky break, the seller notified me that they were out of stock on the Yosemite version I had ordered, and asked if I would like a free upgrade to a Angel Falls in it's place, hell yes and thank you very much, that was about a $700 jump in price over the Yosemite.
The Angel Falls line was being phased out to make room for an even more expensive upgrade to their new Fire line so I guess they wanted to move some old inventory. Now I know how a 100% silver cable sounds and it just sounds freaking amazing, when you get into the upper stratosphere in cable quality it is the bass that gets the big improvement, I ended up taking advantage of this situation a second time by placing another order for a Yosemite cable, and I got another free upgrade to an Angel Falls RCA interconnect, those cables listed for just under $1,500 each, and were out of the question price wise previously, but now I think I would spend the extra money, bottom line each step up the ladder sounded better than the one before it, now I know it, and now I can afford it, but I hope I never get a chance to hear how good their top top of the line cables of today sound, because I am sure they will sound better than the best I have heard to this point, I have no doubt about that.
In summary, I added a whole house power conditioner and 2 other outlet level ones, about $3,000 spent there, I probably have about maybe $10,000+ spent on upgrading all my cables, from power through interconnects, I rebuilt my old speakers and upgraded them to FaitalPro units I got from Parts Express, put vibration dampening feet under all my equipment and speakers and did some sound treatment here and there, speaker placement optimization is huge and once you get your speakers dialed in and find that sweet spot, suddenly your music goes 3 dimensional and seems to encircle you with details you never heard before, I literally found myself turning my head to look behind me because I heard something from behind me clear as day, coming from my two speakers in front of me.
Every one of these improvements were done incrementally and I heard small but noticeable improvements with each and every one of them.
Want to know how to make a $1,000 dollar amplifier and home made speakers sound like a much more expensive system, one that I would say rivals at least a $10,000 system? Spend $3,000 on cables and maybe $700 on a power conditioner outlet bank like the one I found on Amazon, and spend some time dialing in your speakers. I can't believe how much better all those small improvements and tweaks made to my system, I don't even feel the need to upgrade my Yamaha RX-V1000 now, I am perfectly satisfied by how my system sounds right now, my quest for the perfect sound experience has be realized, and I never thought I would actually get to a point where I could say that but I can actually say I am perfectly content with my system now.
And if I ever do decide to upgrade my receiver, I will already have top of the line cables to extract all the capabilities that new receiver has to offer. This is the moral of the story, if you are not happy with the sound coming out of your current system, upgrade the cables first, and do some of the little to low cost tweaks that I found from various sources on the internet, you might find that is all the improvement you need. and know this, IF you do spend a bunch of money on a new receiver/amplifier or speakers and you don't improve your cables you will not realize the full potential of the new equipment and end up being disappointed or feeling like you didn't get the best bang for your buck.
Wow! What a story and described in great detail. Thank you so much for sharing that because these are the genuine stories that people trust. I am very envious that you have found your point of equilibrium, congrats on that! Very very hard to do!
dear Anadialog, wonderful summit..I think exactly the same on all your points.. I made recording for make some a/b test, with foobar abx comparator to check differences between signal and power cables;curiosity is my engine :) Thank for the videos by an italian friend!
Thanks Dan! Always be curious!
Another tweek that is often overlooked especially in mains cables is the quality of the actual fuse fitted to the mains plug and also inside the equipment. Changing out a standard type fuse to an audiophile grade type (Hi-Fi Tuning fuses for example) can transform even the most modest priced cable to higher overall performance. I visited a Hi-Fi show once that demo'd modest priced Hi-Fi equipment with an A-B comparison fuse change outs and I was totally amazed at the difference. I've replaced all mine in my equipment and noticed a big difference. This also runs along the same lines you were talking about... voltage is still the same at the other end, no measurable difference but the end result in listening test experience are totally different.
Indeed! Fuses do make a difference in fact I was planning on doing a video in the near future on the topic.
In my experience, there are 2 broad categories of listeners. Obviously, the normal issues with generalizations apply. You have people who like their music to sound like mine with blankets over my speakers. Those who don't have revealing systems will not hear much, if any, difference in cables. The bottom line, though, is that it doesn't matter. Music is personal, and people like what they like. The only issue I have is with those in one camp attacking others. It's a personal pastime. Don't worry about others hearing or not hearing differences.
The problem with trying things is that expectation bias alters our perceptions. The consequences would be trivial and amusing if we were talking about preference over an assortment of $20 cables. But some of these cables are many $1000s of dollars.
So if you demo with expectation, knowing you are about to listen to an exotic, high-priced cable, you are already altering your perception, and not reality.
If you're going to use your ears and brain as the ultimate arbiter of quality, you need to take sight out of the equation. You must, must blindly undertake these comparisons or you're messing with the results. It's just the way we're built and many of the manufacturers take advantage of this knowledge.
Cables can absolutely make a difference just like caps & resisters, however you don't have to spend a arm & a leg to get some significant benefits.
It depends on the system you have cost wise.
First thanks for covering this topic with an objective perspective
Cable operate as filters , listening to filters is very time consuming and take a lot of time and sampling.
At the end you must validate if this combination of cable + equipment add a positive value to the listening experience.
What is missing to audiophile crowd is proper education in sound perception, just establish a small training to understand correctly ADSR -Attack-Decay-Sustain-Release.
And relate what was your listening experience, also always use the same proper testing material to validate your listening.
Always test with the most crappy cable you could find or use standard studio quality cable as Canare, Mogami or Belden with proper termination as Neutrik connectors.
Make sure that your listening level is calibrated when doing your test, there is no official standard but 83dB SPL at listening position provide a 20dB dynamic range.
Take some note and evaluate your listening using the ADSR approach.
I suggest you take a look at the blind test that Jay recently did in “the new best thing”. To actually believe that things like putting a battery on a cable or that you can hear the difference in a two meter cable is ridiculous. Yes, there are things that are important with cables like the quality of copper the thickness of the cable and the connections but for example to use silver instead of copper but then use a much thinner cable defeats the entire purpose of moving up to silver. I do believe that there are things in music we’re measurements become irrelevant so not everything can be measured but at the same time the hearing if every single person in the world is different. If I am to trust in anybody’s hearing I would trust the hearing of a younger, trained person. Myself although I love listening to quality recordings on my system I am realistic that the law of diminishing returns hits me much earlier than a young person and even though people like Guttenberg and Fremer even with trained ears also have limitations. You mentioned PS Audio and I like Paul and watch his videos. At one time I thought of buying his equipment but I became disappointed with his close relationship with Audioquest, who I consider to be real purveyors of snake oil. I also think that his equipment is highly overpriced based on measurement comparisons. Not a fan of noisy D class. So bottom line do cables matter? If they do humans cannot hear it. Blind AB test is the answer with a group of people.
Amen!😉😇
Hahaha, you think these suckers want to do a real blind a/b? Highly unlikely
hurkamur1 the real suckers are the ones that buy into this crap. It’s all about perception and the power of suggestion along with pride. If you spend a thousand bucks on a cable and you don’t go out there telling people how much better it is then you look like a fool. But then again you look like a fool anyway for having done it in the first place. Measurements? Really? Measurements! We don’t need no stinking measurements we gave refined audiophile super hearing!
@@monteverdefarms5626 Exactly. I love Guttenberg and Fremer, but it would be delightful to see them participate in a 3rd party blind A/B between their cables and similarly measuring less expensive cables. Something tells me they aren't dumb enough to ruin their reputation when they can't hear a difference.
Ah ah ah - there is a reduction in inductance that can be up to 0.01 ohms above 10kHz, and that is measurable. (Going to thinner cable)
So there is somewhat of a benefit, that you won't be able to hear anyway ;)
IME, being a degreed electrical and RF engineer, high-end audio cables are a waste of money. At best they can add better shielding to protect from external noise sources. But if that is your problem, you should address the noise source, not the shielding to protect from it. And, most home HiFi systems will not be exposed to unusually high noise levels. Keep you cable runs reasonably short. The speaker cables should carry the maximum current with low resistance. 14 ga. wire will be sufficient for 99% of systems. As for audio cable reactance (inductance and capacitance), even with the cheapest cables you can find, the magnitude of the reactances will be insignificant as compared to the source and load reactances of the connected equipment (especially true from loudspeakers).
I have particularly built my own Speaker cables believing that is the fastest and more easy point to notice the difference. The results were quite enough for me to assure a good reproductibility & repetibility of the sound quality expected by me.
Congrats I do the same! If you have time, know what to look for and some skills, it's the best way. High-end cables are just obsurd in price and one of the main reasons why people hate this argument.
Your final point resonated most with me. I also wish there was more published research on the cable topic. I'm guessing that the most research has been done by the larger cable manufacturers, and the reason we aren't seeing the results of any blind ABX user preference scores is because they don't favor the existence of $1000 RCA or $40000 speaker cables.
Agree with everything you said here, especially #1, 6 and 7. Many things in this 'audiophile' world are very subjective... and sometimes have to do with 'face' and not really music or the enjoyment. PS: You make a lot of sense here. Wish everyone would take heed of your words. BIG THANKS.
I find the more resolving a system is the easier it is to pick the nuances between cables but, it’s a never ending debate and I find it’s best to agree to disagree whichever side of the fence your on, just be happy listening to your music.
I like music since before I was born. In my 20's , I was very ignorant about sound and video quality . Always tough everything is universal . When I hear stereo v mono . Surprise! I like it. When saw Black and white to color ...Surprise!! And when I hear a CD OMG .!! About cables I had the same experience because I discovered myself while I was changing a power cable and a old stereo system .Then in my car I soldered just one tweeter and the other no . I didn't know that I did that mistake and I decide to changed then- I sow my mistake . I fix it and ,voila!! What a difference! . I just to use RCA chips cables I was alway complaining about how poor the sound and contact of my system , my mistake again , Now I never use them and I put them in the recycle box .I don't even want to give it to somebody ...It will be a shame for me . Now with the internet I educate my self , how to do my own cable .
Everybody have different ears ,some people are more sensible others not at all . Now .. When I satisfied with the sound quality of my stereo car and house I can sleep better with my own happiness . Thanks for the info .Hello from LA Ca.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Cables definitely do make a difference in my experience 👍🏼
My experience: changing cables from cheap 2 usd to 20 usd REALLY makes a difference
I totally agree with you that cable does made the difference.
i agree and use monster higher end cables from them with a life time warranty.
Same here, my own design blew away a 200 dollar cable. Never changed the design after that, and they translate on other gear relatively the same .
Nobody said they don't, just that identically measuring cables whether they cost thousands or not, sound identical. Cables are measurements period, anybody telling you otherwise is either ignorant stupid or trying to sell you a bridge.
Yep, and those measurement all sound different ;)
@@Projacked1 Of course there can be a jump in sound quality when comparing different cables, especially when comparing junk cables to quality cables.
I don't have enough experience with experimenting with cables. I do know cables matter in regard to things such as capacitance in phono applications. I swapped out my Amazon rcas with Blue Jeans LC1 RCA cables running from my Technics to my phono stage. There was an undeniable difference.
I believe in cables. That’s way I got Chinese nock offs of big brand for 1/100 price of the original. They look great, are well made and conduct low voltage electricity. Happy camper here
Great science and listening based talk on cables!
I like to use cables that are as short as possible, are well constructed out of quality materials, have nice solid connectors, that feel good in hand, and that look appealing.
I’m really not sure of the sonic characteristics of my cables.
As long as my whole system sounds great, feels good when handling and looks good I’m happy.
our hearing system is much more complex than we can currently understand, so we do not even know what to measure in the cables that give us information regarding their sonic characteristics. And finally, these measures would not be of much use, since the important thing is, not how it behaves in a laboratory with certain equipment, but how it behaves in our room with our equipment. therefore the numbers are not so relevant.
when you have a balanced system in a suitable room. your speakers correctly positioned, that's when your cable tests will reveal remarkable informational details. The measurement system you should trust, it's you, if you want improve your system, YOU MUST TRY
Great video as always! Before we discovered the basics of the solar system, measurements said all sky objects were equally distant from earth. Then we evolved...
Thx! Indeed...;-)
The reason the debate never ends has nothing to do with cables. The idea of high end audio offends some people to the point of insanity. The reason you can't get anywhere with most deniers is they don't want there to be a difference in cables. Being skeptical and having doubts is normal. We all have doubts until we hear the differences for the first time. Not wanting cables to make a difference is something else entirely, and really has nothing to do with cables. These people won't admit to hearing a difference even if they do. There's no way to overcome that in an honest debate.
In the past, the only way I could get cable deniers to admit a difference, was to trick them. I did a blind test where I went back and forth between 2 pairs of cables. There were no other changes in the system, so the only thing that could account for an audible difference, was the cables themselves. When I told them they were listening to 2 different pairs of cables, they couldn't hear a difference, but you could see by the look on their face, they did. However, I was able to get them to admit there were audible differences other components, like amps and preamps, and they were willing to take another test to prove it. So I went behind the equipment and made it look like I was hooking up different components. In reality, I did nothing. I told them we were not going to listen to 2 different amps, and I played the exact came cable demo again. Now they can hear a difference. What made it interesting is everyone that took the test heard the same thing. For example if cable A (amp A), had a bright treble, everyone reported on hearing the same thing.
When the people that took the test found out I tricked them, they got mad and ren off. The point I'm trying to make is, it was never about the cables making a difference. Some people don't want them to make a difference. Not only that, but when cable deniers are offered a chance to do some real testing, they always refuse, and when they make an argument, pretty much everything they reference as fact, doesn't exist. They lie. You can't compete with that.
Yes, i think in most cases you are right (sadly). In fact, most people that deny the cables' impact on sound, when asked, never even tried a quality cable!
Great video, I tend to agree with your somewhat neutral attitude towards cables, you are quite right a decent shielded power cable with quality connectors makes the most difference to any amplifier, this I'm certain has more to do with our home electricity supply, there's no need to spend a great deal of money, make your own, you need a screw driver, cable strippers and a free hour. With interconnects to me that the biggest upgrade anyone can make is to go from the cheap free stuff you get in the box to a very simple shielded (£25, 30 Euro, $35) metre pair, with how good the likes of Cambridge Audio, QED and Chord basic lines it poses the question is there any need to spend more? Van Damme shielded pro cable with Neutrik locking connectors work extremely well and in my view blow away a lot of very expensive audiophile cables. The absolute truth here is that the law of diminishing returns kicks in very early with cables. Cables make a difference, sometimes you maybe be able to hear it? However it's worth investing a few pounds, euros or dollars in good connections, above that I'm sure that if you have the money and you can hear it then it may be worth the investment to you? So not snake oil, but not a bang for buck proposition either.
Thanks Ian!
Guitarists can tell a difference in cables. When you go from a lead that comes free with your electric guitar to a high quality oxygen free cable you get more volume, hi end detail and less interference. I’m a long time believer. I don’t hear as much with my Hi fi systems cables but I still use Mogami or better with all the interconnects at least so I know they will they last a long time if not sound any better.
Cool! Thanks for sharing that.
I wonder about those twisty guitar cables, would they act like an inductor and make the treble roll off (compared to straight guitar cables)? Imagine Hi Fi speaker cables that are twisty (for that soft treble).
That is because guitar pickups are high impedance AND unbalanced AND have very low signal levels and therefore are very susceptible to differences in capacitance etc. Same goes for phono cartridges. The cables that connect them to a pre amp can be very important. But any other cable should not make that much of a difference. If your amp improves its sound with a better AC power cable, your amp has a problem and not the cable.
I also was curious, way back when.... and I had to spend about 100 Euros for 2 silly coaxial Cynch type cables to connect a Denon DCD1520 (20-bit, 8-times oversampling) CD player of that time to a very nice Revox Amp. Or my Yamaha Amp I also owned at that time. Or connect my cassette deck to one of my Amps. Cassette deck could easily do at least 20kHz (plus...) in frequency response. And both did sound exactly the same way like when I used some half-decent quality 10 Euros 1 meter Cynch cable... I tested it with speakers and good headphones. Both ways: no difference. Measurement: no difference. BUT: the funny thing is: Knowing it now IS the high quality finger-thick mono-cynch cable for each channel it started to somehow "feel" nicer. Why? It's not because it really *does* sound better. It feels like it *must* sound better, because that nice and shiny gold contacts and that thick, trustworthy looking cable impelled me that there is now way it would not be much better than the el-cheapo! That's exactly the way medicine is "working", even if their is statistically not one single atom of the stuff or poison left over from thinning it by "potentiating" it to a D6 globuli.
Does it work? Well, if you believe in it it may be working for you. Does it measureable affect it or will you hear the difference if you don't know it being a nice and shiny cable? Not for me! Especially not in that funny times where people seem to believe that digital audio broadcasting via DAB is sounding better than a good FM stereo with good antenna signal... ;-)
@megaohmz just respecting that you could transfer some video signal over exactly that "cheap" coaxial cables which do need to transfer very well over 1 Megahertz it does not really surprise to see that these cables also do a very good job in audio signal connections. Video signal is having at least 3.5-4 Megahertz bandwidth and the 5th harmonic of the audio frequency 20kHz would be only 1 Megahertz... There are a couple orders of magnitude inbetween until you really could hear some substantial difference in sound inbetween a cheap and a very expensive cable. The psychologic effect exceeds the difference in signal transport by far. Usually the brain would tell you always: A cable that is worth 10$ never could give you the same results like the super-duper 200$ cable set! That's why (of course) anybody will feel and tell you: "Yes, it sounds much better." But if they would not know the price of the cable they could tell you no difference.
PS2: Im still inexperienced in the audiophile world with not much money but i go to concerts as much as i can, here in Bangkok and abroad. From my limited experience, ive tried an old cable then changed to a Nordost (not expensive model ) and now very happy with Supra cables. (I don't belong to any afiliation or music system company.)
Good job! Live music, apart from the joy to listening to it, is paramount for understanding how a piece of equipment should sound. Live, obviouslyz is the reference! I have a soft spot for Nordost but they are just too expensive.
I think the true answer is simple. There is such thing as a crappy cable. The question is how much do you really need to spend before the sound is good enough? Cables to me do matter but in a more subtle way than amps, speakers , format, etc.
Thanks for a truly objective point(s) of view. Well done, Sir!! Sparks in Daytona
I have had criticism from arm chair Canute’s before who can’t be bothered to go and listen because they’ve put their volt meter on the O/P amplifier terminals-Doh! When you say you’ve heard a difference the old subjective argument comes out. I would add that in some degree we have to be careful as an improvement for one system may not be for another-but there is a difference. Way back when a Hi Fi reviewer came out with the suggestion of the benefits of Solid core cable-My friend and I who had access to different cables(thanks BT 🙂)tried and tested different types. We could definitely hear a difference-not subjective but a fact. But could you say that cable sounded better than that one. That’s where maybe subjectivity comes into play. Our findings were solid core speaker cables such as 2.5mm mains gave a much smoother rendition. The smaller the diameter would tame a speaker with a forward treble. A valve amp might appreciate a larger conductor(subjective 🙂). One of the nicest improvements to my system was to make up an interconnect between my pre and power amp was to follow the solid core theory through whilst visiting a radio site that used a corrugated solid core screen and solid inner. It blew my rancid Vandervault interconnect out of the water! Other recommended hates-QED 49 strand(ouch) and Monster Cable-like music played through an Elephant (if it didn’t bow your Naim amp up with its high capacitance😂). Here come the Canutes 😂.
Thanks for sharing that!
Just starting out on my audio journey and replaced my old cables with a few from oyaide and subtle sounds I never knew were there started showing up for me. Thanks for the advice to try the upgrade for myself.
You are the One! :) Love this video.
I spend a lot of money in cables in many years, I believe and I hear a huge difference when all is set properly! Grazie Aldo!
che cavi mi consigli per il mio nuovo 1210 GR con su nagaoka mp-15? Al momento ho il pro-ject connect it (preso da quando avevo il vecchio Project debut carbon), collegato al pre-phono di Fezz Audio Gaia, dici che posso tenere quello o meglio qualcos'altro? Tu cosa hai?
Il mio consiglio è sempre lo stesso meglio Cavi in rame OCC, magari fatti da soli, i meglio, terminati da soli. Butta un occhio qui se non lo hai già fatto: czcams.com/video/u3EPL6hI_H4/video.html
lo stavi facendo proprio ora... 😅 non ho ben capito se in rame o in argento... OCC è sinonimo di schermatura? Relativamente il cavo di massa posso usare tranquillamente quello fornito con il 1210 GR? Hai un link di uno spezzone di cavo occ consigliato? 1 metro va bene?
Rame va benissimo. No, OCC è la tecnica di realizzazione del cavo inventata dal prof. Ohno del Chiba Institute. Ohno Continues Cast. Infatti i cavi vengono fusi e non estrusi. La purezza è disarmante. Io non sono un grande fan della schermatura. Se possibile, è meglio evitarla perchè aumenta l'induttanza e in generale attenua il suono. Molta attenzione va messa nel materiale isolante. Influenza tabtissimo il suono. Il teflon è il meglio in assoluto.
Ok, ho ordinato il cavo con i connettori, quindi se ho capito bene il cavetto della massa non lo devo mettere una volta messi questi cavi?
Ho visto che c'erano 3 tipi di connettori RCA della. stessa marca con strane differenze di prezzo dai più cari, credo quelli che hai usato tu (129€) e altri due uno 79 e l'altro 64...non ho capito le diff, ho preso quelli da 79...
Questi cavi possono andare bene anche per collegare il lettore CD al mio ampli valvolare (2 metri di cavo)?
I have 6 sets of speaker cables of which I can hear the difference and nuances of each; and my friends can too. I am using ELAC Vela BS403 bookshelves paired with an NAD C368 amp and Node 2i or CD input. Oh wow, there are differences. For example, Audioquest Rocket 44s are very detailed, analytical and "fast", but my tinned copper Western Electrics bring "fullness" to the sound more than the 44s. I do not lack the "fast detail" in the WEs; however, I experience a thicker sound. The 44s I describe as thin compared to the WEs, hence I use the WEs regularly. Similar results with some old school Monster Mseries M1 Mk.2 time correct cable; they just have fuller mid bass response. Power cable changes bring an openness to the soundstage; an "airiness" in my impression. Compare an AQ Monsoon with a Furutech Alpha 3 with F1-11M ends; changes? Oh yes! Each cables character will be distinct with different speakers and amps; this is the audiophile's journey and why we have lovers and h8rs. I'm Scott L, an Avid audiophile and music lover, Calgary AB Canada. @audio_acoustic_engineering
The difference between musicians and audiophiles is musicians trust their ears and don’t care about measurements. Has anyone ever bought a 59 Les Paul or a 54 Fender Strat on how it measured?
Good point.
Excellent words! Wisley and nutraly spoken. Cables do matter.
In my experience not just with audio cables but in building, diagnosing and repairing wiring harnesses, higher quality materials tend to bear more reliable products. Of course they will cost more. Personally for the reliability and longevity of the cable alone, I will always spend a little more for a higher quality cable but probably not likely to ever buy audiophile cables. It doesn’t bother me that others do buy audiophile cables. I would love to listen to a system with them. I just don’t see them fitting into my needs or goals of my audio journey.
The trick is to make them yourself as I have explained in a few videos or simply look for cheap one but with the right materials like this pair of speaker cables I recently presented: czcams.com/video/2rjOdEuFe88/video.html
@@anadialog I don't disagree. I do believe quality cables are worth their added cost however I haven't ventured into audiophile level cables yet so can't speak on that level from experience. :)
An interesting article but the cables replacement in my car and Home audio had a major impact on the quality of the sound output. So in my case, good Quality cables makes a lot of difference.
I totally agree with you. Excellent points....
this is why i subscribed to your channel. studios spent so little on cables. one just has to get an rca y splitter, that way one can test so easily, provided you have 2 inputs on your preamp. it's so freaking easy guys, trust your ears not the b s!
I have never heard it side-by-side personally, but I do expect to upgrade the power cables first, then I'll probably do speaker cables next. Many places have return policies so if it doesn't work for you. Return it. Great video.
Indeed! Give us some feedback, good or bad, no problem here!
@@anadialog Most of my power cable runs are 10 feet or less. Any manufacturer or type recommendations for that length? They have the standard computer-style ends.
OCC copper all the way baby! Neotech, Oyaide, Furutech, 1877phono are great...
Real story, about 20 years ago. I owned (still have it) creek 4330 and cd43 mk2. One day I have replaced simple cheap rca cables with the cheapes siltech silver cable (second hand about 60€). I was listening to compare. Them my wife came in, she was not even i living room and she said: sounds didferent, You have changed something? Then she came into room and look at the audio rack. No you did not. But it sound different. I was mad on her. I wish I have such a good hearing.
I used to be a cable denier until just like you said...EXPERIENCE. I got a new DAC and was kind of disappointed with what I was hearing. I was just using some old printer USB cable I had. So on a whim I bought a cheaper model Pangea USB cable and the difference was amazing, the sound was just more alive and present. I couldn't believe it I mean a conductor is a conductor and data transfer is data transfer right? So to see if maybe my old printer cable was just damaged some how, I bought an amazon basics USB cable to try and while it did sound slightly better than my old printer cable it still didn't have the life and vibrancy of the Pangea. So I ended up getting a higher end Pangea USB cable and while this time the difference wasn't as drastic there still was a difference. So now I'm a cable believer. I don't think an expensive cable is going to transform a poor system into a great system but its going to give you the best possible results the components you have are able to produce. Just my opinion and experience.
Thanks for sharing!!
You do not have to decide.
Just listen.
Yes there is a lot of bullshit with the marketing and pricing
But, there are differences
No, don't just "listen". Patronize companies that publish data about their products and stand behind their claims, then listen.
If you drive from A to B at 100 km/h respectively in a Lada or a Mercedes, you will of course get from A to B at 100 km/h in both cases. Some will say that the experience therefore is the same, but we all know that it's not. In this case we have some very clear differences on the cars we can point to. We don't have that when it comes to cables (at least not yet), but still the difference is there. Some will claim the difference is imagined because you know the cables has been changed and you therefore expect a difference. In some cases they might be right because I believe there's a limit to how much difference can be achieved, and as you mention it may vary from system to system. But when it comes to blindtesting one will experience things that takes away all doubt:
Back in the 90's I heard about the cable theories and decided to test it for myself. I wasn't interested in spending a fortune on those insane priced cables advertised from hifi stores (at least not before seeing some evidence they could be worth the money) so I went out and bought an rca cable to connect my cd player to the amp which was just a little bit better than the one that came with the cd player. It's was a pretty cheap no name cable, but it was a little thicker and had little more robust looking goldplated connectors. I had a couple of friends over for the test, and we were all pretty amazed by the difference. It sounded like a blanket covering the speakers had suddenly been removed. The difference was really huge. Again some will claim that we all knew the cables had been changed etc, but the funny thing was when my friends went home, I went down to the cellar to fix some stuff, and while I was down there my wife came home from work and put on some music. I hope she doesn't read this because that would get me into trouble, but I will say that she listens to some rather crappy bad produced pop music, and is anything but a hifi nerd. Never the less when I came up from the cellar I was immediately confronted with the question: What the hell did you do to the stereo? I allowed myself to answer with the question: Well, do you like it? It turned out that she very much did. I will therefore say when someone (who's taste in music makes me think she's tonedef) immediately hears the difference without knowing about the changes, it wipes away all claims of imagining things. At least in my book.
Since that I have tried out a lot of different cables, and I hear a clear difference between them to a certain point. As I see it, it's a great idea to invest in better cables, and you can tweak the sound on your system that way. To my ears there's no reason to spend that insane amount of money that some do, but to a certain point it makes perfect sense.
Thanks for yet another awesome video, and promise me to stay safe in these corona times.
Thank YOU for posting this interesting story! I had the same experience and sadly some haven't. That is why we have all these problems and debate.
Good quality cables - some do improve a system some don't. I use Balanced sources as much as I can having just seen a previous comment on this issue I would agree - even the connection between turntable unbalance to preamp though a DI box to make the final output balanced did have a slight improvement. In all these things have improved my listening experience. Keeping the connectors clean any good switch cleaner can improve frequency response so I clean the contact on the Turntable Head shell for example - this will make a big improvement a system is limited by its weakest link. Funny enough I have the cheapest speaker cable money can buy but then that's only to monitor what is going on. I might buy better some time. The better headphones come with better audio cables which I always hear in improved audio quality.
I think one problem with the null test is that it’s a different circuit to the one the cables are used.
Very difficult topic indeed. Hats off for explaining some of this stuff. I'm somewhere in the middle I think.. maybe I'm a bit more in the placebo camp. The thing is, I don't believe in magic. It might not be as romantic but ultimately your speakers are driven by electricity. Electricity you can measure. So how can it be that even though measurements are the same, the sound is different?
Humans don't fully understand how the human brain works, but enough to know that perception can be changed. It seems the answer may not lie within the physics of the electronics ;-)
Great video as usual. Thanks!
I have no problems to hear difference between cables and the cables that has been easiest to hear difference between for me is power-cables, speaker-cables and USB-cables.
Thank YOU!
I make speakers as a hobby and use normal copper speaker cable but I never solder tweeters or (in the case of FR drivers) I use a crossover filter and I don't solder the driver. Why? Cos it sounds "better". More silky treble and not as gritty. I noticed when I soldered my HF drivers and crossovers that it sounded more gritty in the treble after soldering. So there you go, cables (and anything to do with connection) can make difference. I still can't understand why HF drivers sound gritty when soldered and silky when not and I realise that normally the speaker terminals aren't soldered (so what am I talking about). I'm talking about the very last connection to the tweeter or FR driver after the signal has gone through everything else. If I solder everything else it still sounds nice and silky as long as I don't solder the HF driver. I do solder the actual driver but I cut he last bit of wire before the driver (on+) and re join it by twisting a LOT to hope for the best connection without solder.
Interesting!
Oh shucks, another audio guy pushing expensive "audiophile-grade" cable magic's imperceptible magical "nuance" and "musicality" difference in such snake-oil audio products.
listen to this guy here! everyone should run out and buy a set of Magnum Opus 65 grand cables right now and experience the supreme airiness, subtle nuances of hi-fi music reproduction that brings forth ethereal-like reverberations, sense of space that transcends dimensions and a 5D "as though you're there" soundstage that could literally let you travel through time, I swear it'd make a dramatic difference over your standard plebian copper cables wew.
also I couldn't care less about the marketing words of an audio engineer who has a stake in an audio maker that well, sells exorbitant audio stuffs based upon those snake-oil marketing fluff.
measurements and objectivity exists to disprove all these snake-oil fluff that has been and still is ripping off customers in the audio industry for decades.
your talking from experience i guess lol
our hearing system is much more complex than we can currently understand, so we do not even know what to measure in the cables that give us information regarding their sonic characteristics. And finally, these measures would not be of much use, since the important thing is, not how it behaves in a laboratory with certain equipment, but how it behaves in our room with our equipment. therefore the numbers are not relevant.
when you have a balanced system in a suitable room. your speakers correctly positioned, that's when your cable tests will reveal remarkable informational details. The measurement system you should trust, it's you, if you want improve your system, YOU MUST TRY.
@@gabrielcarral2889 yes true, and i think A to B tests work best if it's ur system which u are very familiar with, if u get people in to listen for differences they might not hear as much difference as u do since ur ears and brain is adjusted to how ur system sounds, but un some cases the difference is too big not to hear it biased or unbiased in my experience
@@MrDannydjmix2
That is why you should test the changes in your system for at least a week, so that in the different tracks that you hear, each one reveals different subtleties, which finally make an appreciable change, then you decide if the change was worth it.
@@gabrielcarral2889 on my system i can hear any difference instantly, i KNOW! Some people dont believe in burn in but for some reason i can hear that too, to me i usually use a pair of headphones as reference, what i mean by that is that i compare same songs o speakers and headphones at the same time and hear how they differ as my experience showed me that our sound memory is quite short so if u have something that u don't change to compare too u can hear how different it is
Can't wait till you get to the topic of grounding, not to be confused with earthing...... Boom!
Well said! A friend and have been buying and selling audio for personal use for that last 15 years. Power cables, interconnects, even digital cables can have a huge impact on the system. I have a dedicated listening room fully treated with it's own dedicated power supply.I've had at over 100 speaker, 50 odd amps, pre amps, cables galore in my room, from budget to expensive high end. Being an audiophile comes from having very open mind and be willing to try and test EVERYTHING you can get your hands on. It's all comes to do experience.
I got some Nordost speaker cables, the White Lightning, and it knocked me on my ass!! I was blown away by the improvement! It was NOT subtle!
Nordost is one of the very few cable companies I respect. Nevertheless, just too expensive for what it really is.
I use Ansuz coaxial cable 👍 Very exspensive !
But the Best I’ve Heart 😎
One of the secrets is the transient response of the cables. We test the cables with music + ears, not with the electrical equipment :)
Chi non sente differenze non ha le orecchie...ho diversi cavi (segnale, potenza) e suonano tutti diversi.
Penso di avere capito che i cavi modificano il suono sempre per sottrazione...cioé, non aggiungono mai niente al segnale...(il cavo migliore é quello che non c'é)...e non sempre quello che costa di piú é quello che suona meglio, bisogna trovare il cavo che si adatta meglio al nostro impianto, al nostro ambiente, e soprattutto alle nostre orecchie...la parola magica in hi-fi é "sinergia"...👍😊
Esatto!
* i build my own cables too ;) and i witness the same thing going from a budget system to a good one.
I didn't needed occ anymore. Even a normal ofc was enough. It needed to be at least 2.5mm2 but no need for fancy plugs and costly metals.
My guess it has surely something to do with impedance and inductance.
Bad design or lack of compensation mechanism in budget gears. They can't adapt so changing cables mess up easily their equilibrium.
Power supplies in budget gears are bad and can be easily influenced by the power cable. I think that's the reason.
But on good electronics the toroidal transformer have nice thick wire with low impedance and kills all the noise and disturbances. After filtering and regulation of too quality you don't have any influence of the power coming from the wall anymore.
But speaker wire are different. Seeing that the amplification adapt with the load required cables can easily influenced sound there. Again something to do with impedance and inductance.
That's my best shot.
And since I begun building linear power supplies recently and planning to build amps for hobby. I'm witnessing more and more real parameters that influence every modifications i make.
I understand your perspective. Real world approach, which I do follow most times and sometimes I get fooled as well. I think PSU are one of the most important parts in any component. Good, clean power is paramount.
I think a great audio cable should bring out the best part of any types of music from your system and let you enjoy it hours on end. I found more expensive cables are more likely to achieve a better overall sonic balance. Cheaper cables can be good enough or even very good in some areas and sometimes can be very impressive at the start, but more likely to cause listening fatigue sooner and have lesser overall sonic balance.
Pretty same experience. I replaced stock power cable with audioquest power cable on a cheap amp and it felt like I had gotten a whole new and better amp. The difference was overwhelming.
Thanks for sharing that. I am glad to read similar experiences!
I think that, as long as an audio cable does not bring noise or interference, it's totally ok. It can be a stupid chinese RCA cable, if it is "interference proof" it is all right. With digital audio cables, the snake-oil is still worse. Remember: Bits is Bits, as long as the DAC recognizes the difference between 1's and 0's, the sound will be reproduced perfectly. I don't belive that a bad AC cable will bring interference. Otherwise, a bad energy source will affect the sound with that classic 60 (Or 50) hz noise. In my years of searching for the best audio quality i could afford i've tested many cables, and i diddn't hear the difference. Love your channel!
I've never subscribed to a content provider until tonight. Keep it up.
Woah! Now that is a compliment, thank you so much Don!
Excelente video, es muy complejo este tema de los cables, pero viniendo de ti con tanta experiencia tu opinión es más creíble, no hablo mucho inglés por lo que muchas cosas no me quedaron muy claras, un favor si se puede claro esta, en un comentario podrías poner tu conclusión, y yo la traduzco con el traductor de Google, saludos y gracias.
Thanks for your support! Yes, I will try to sum it up. In my experience cables have a major impact in less efficient systems in contrast with what a lot of people claim. When I had my simple Sony system, very very cheap, and I inserted a quality interconnect and especially a quality powercable I heard night and day difference (a very strong difference). While now, that I have several so-called high end or simply high quality components I hear much less the difference between one cable and another. So for me each system is a whole new story, cables act differently according to the gear they are hooked at.
ANA[DIA]LOG ok gracias lo traduciré, saludos.
De nada!
ANA[DIA]LOG 👍, y saludos desde Mexico.
thank you for continue doing videos like this
Thank YOU!
Your statement about the interconnects having the least effect;
Better cables nearest to the source will make the biggest difference in my experience.
Upgrade those first, and what is really interesting here; I upgraded speaker wire right after the interconnects (I make my own cables) and the differnce was ti-ny. The difference with the interconnects was HUGE. You will notice when the volume goes up.
I believe you. In fact, as I mentioned in the video, each system is a whole new story!
@@anadialog yeah you did, I was too early there
@@anadialog yup....I broke our old Philips amp , replaced it with a Technics (same amount of Watts, also oldskool Class-D), did a sound comparison with my new cables. Such a weird experience how just the amp completely changes the sound. I still had the 'hugeness' and clarity, but the image just moved back a whole meter or more! I had to re-adjust my speakers just because of it.
i can agree that cables do make a difference. But a lot of cables are up marketed and has a brand stamp with no difference in sound .
100% true! That is why I always recommend to make your own and made a few tutorials in this sense!
I've always been impressed with Audience cables. They vary in price between expensive and very expensive. But I can say from experience that you get what you pay for with Audience cables and power conditioners. Here's a quote from their website that's relevant to the conversation:
"The idea of cables as components is a controversial subject. There are many who think that “wire is wire” and don’t accept that cables can either optimize or compromise the performance of an audio system. Traditional tests for difference in cable reveal very little if any electrical differences between brands. However, the human ear/brain is a far more sensitive and discriminating test apparatus and deciphers differences in cable brands rather easily. This ability can be developed much like wine tasting. As you become more experienced, differences, shadings and nuance become more readily noticeable."
Of course they say that. By making people believe that they are experienced and seasoned in detecting fine nuances; an ability that others don't have, they are now buttered up to experience the " superiority".
The brain is very complex indeed and perception can change quite easily due to its own process or even suggestion.
@@RennieAsh You forgot to mention “snake oil”, measurable data, placebo effect, and demand a double blind study. LOL Just out of curiosity, what comprises your system? By system, I mean the components, component platforms, cables, power conditioning, tweaks, and room acoustic treatments?
The reason I ask is because I’ve consistently found that people who make comments similar to yours have something like a $200 - $300 solid-state integrated amp or receiver, no power conditioning, and have maybe tried replacing a stock cable with a Monster Cable and didn’t hear any difference (which doesn’t surprise me). And none of them have ever listened to a high-end system and had someone switch out high-end cables (essentially a blind test) to determine what differences they could or could not hear.
@@LorenzoNW a monster cable has more physical difference than some so called audiophile cables, so why would the audiophile cables sound different but a monster cable wouldn't? I mean you just wrote that the human brain can easily distinguish the differences between cable brands and now you say we can't with certain brands?
I have majority of my budget in speakers and room treatments, the things that matter most.
I guess you're going to be one of those people who will say that I haven't spent enough money on things. Not that it helps you, because I buy 2nd hand equipment meaning that monetary valuation would be an inaccurate indicator.
Perhaps you could enlighten us yourself of what you think compromises a good system and where your budget goes?
I've listened to equipment that totals the cost of a new car, and tbh it wasn't any better or worse than what I have now for the most part, in terms of enjoyment. I even put their funny 2" thick cable back on its riser because it looks better visually - wouldn't be distracting me from the music. At least that system had a great set of speakers so it did sound lucid.
@@RennieAsh I’m not an audio engineer so I can’t tell you what makes one cable sound better or different than another. From talking with audio engineers, cable development is part science and part art (trial and error). I can tell you that different cables can make my stereo sound significantly better. And I don’t spend a lot of money on subtle improvements. Monster Cable is essentially a marketing company. By that, I mean a very large percentage of their budget goes towards marketing and advertising rather than investing in the product itself. That’s why you’ll find their products in big box stores but not in quality audiophile stores.
I never equated good sound to spending a ton of money. I’ve heard stereo systems costing as much as a quarter million dollars that didn’t impress me. For me, a great system is one that is musically and emotionally engaging.
To achieve a sound that I consider to be musically and emotionally engaging, I saved up for a system with good components, good component platforms, good cables, good power conditioning, and good tweaks. I don’t currently own speakers. I’m just using my system for headphones for now.
I would suggest that people buy a system with commensurate elements. In other words, if I was buying a system for under $20K, I wouldn’t go crazy with high-end cables because it wouldn’t be commensurate with the rest of the system. I would recommend going to an honest and knowledgeable dealer, listen to different components, and decide what sounds best. I’m fortunate living in Seattle because The Audio Connection is a great place to shop for stereos.
An example of a very nice entry-level stereo would be a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 300 speakers, a Marantz integrated amplifier and CD player, decent aftermarket cables, and a Furman Power Station. That will cost around $6K - $7K (depending on the amplifier you choose) and sound better than some stereos I’ve heard costing 3 times as much. If you do play CDs, invest in an Auric Illuminator kit by Audience for $50.
@@LorenzoNW I'm more of a digital PC based person, so I'm looking for a new DAC and a way to stop noise from the PC leaking through the USB connection. I'll probably have to use optical from PC to DAC, or some kind of isolation transformer.
The other thing I need is some decent shielded RCA leads of long length.
TBH I'm at the stage where I find myself wanting to listen for a long time as it is, so I think the main components I have are working out quite well.
The issue I have with certain components is for example, HiFi racks are quite expensive, some don't look that great to me, and the benefits would be very small compared to other parts of the system. Would be great to have a nicer looking one with fancy decoupling, but the ones I'd like cost as much as my speakers
It seemed like bs for me for a long time, until I ordered a hd650 cable that sounded like actual crap. Now I do believe the cable makes a difference. I can't put that into scientific measurable terms but I am a believer
What about the wire inside the speakers and the wires in the amp just before the speaker terminals? Is it cos it's shorter, and it doesn't have to be as fancy?
A lot of peopl rewire all these parts and achieve amazing results. I wish I had the time and skill to do so...
In fact in higher end components there are usually quality cables built in. My speakers as well as my Amp and DAC all have at least Oxygen free Copper wiring.
@@unnamedone7655 Some speaker have silver wire inside I think, but it's fairly shin cos it's short (I suppose). It seems tha main thing is stuff gained that's the problem with thin standard copper wiring, somewhat more than what's lost.
Actually there *WAS* some objective research done back in the late 80's (when I started upgrading my cables to 1st gen. "monster" cables) by Audio magazine. I think it was mostly square wave and spectrum analysis. They tested RCA terminated cables only. There where several companies competing in the "high-def" cable space shortly after CD's went mainstream. Personally I noticed a significance difference when I upgraded to the 1st gen. RCA-type "Monster" cables back in 88-89 shortly after buying my first CD player. I'm still using most of those cables today and still have all of them. Today many of those same cables are way overpriced since they are considered "audiophile".
Same here. Using 1988 Monster cables. I think most of this is placebo effect.
I have some Monster cable I've picked up from around the place. If anything it's interesting because they physically build the cable more than just standard wire in a jacket. Can't say I've noticed any difference in sound, but you do feel some kind of surety in using a "high-end" product.
A audio specialist by the name of Danny Richey did a simple example. He connected various speaker wires to the ANTENNA screws on an old fashioned stereo receiver. Guess which ones picked up the best (strongest) radio signal? Hint: shielding blocks radio signals. Certain designs block even more.
We don’t KNOW what to measure for that will show the differences is my opinion. I mean we aren’t listening to frequency responses or time alignments etc.... once we discover the next few sets of data to test THEN cables can be shown how much better some sound than others. It’s simply called advancement in technology and we aren’t there yet but our ears and brain interface can tel the differences especially with soundstaging
Very good point!