Can You Become a Millionaire Rockstar Today? (Rise Of The New Indie)
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2023
- With the old music mainstream undergoing massive collapse, what does the future look like for guitar bands dreaming of rock and roll superstardom? Is there still a way to become a millionaire in the face of a collapsing industry and cancel culture?
Join me to look at how to music industry used to work, and what the future looks like
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Many thanks, JH.
My dad once told me "it's important to have the breif case mentality as well as the guitar case mentality"
It's a tall order to expect a young band to be able to handle the business side of things while also being creative and prolific enough to deliver the goods music-wise. It would be better to have a manager, a fifth or sixth member of the band who could manage the business side, an older more experienced person who might be able to invest more money in the project than guys in their teens or early twenties. When I was playing in bands at that age, I simply didn't have the money to buy the equipment I wanted, and we never had enough between us to record anything better than a rough and ready demo in a crummy basement studio. Now, in my 50s, I can afford all that stuff. But it's too late now 😂
sounds like you need to find yourself a band to manage ;)
Never too late
Why not help a young band make it? Be their “5th Beatle” and help get guitar music back in rotation again. Question, you guys talk a lot about how hopeless the UK scene is, but you say there is a glimmer of hope? I’m an American and I was wondering what the odds for the US to ever have hope in guitar music being big again? I feel like we are in the same boat as UK, but I’m not sure. What do you think? Is US worse off than UK in this regard?
I think what you said is totally still relevant an makes sense....
What Mr Huxley said.....
Radiohead were the first to get it. when their deal with Parlophone expired they went out on their own. everything from 2008 In Rainbows on has been self released.
They're on XL Recordings now, part of Beggars group.
It’s sort of sad that bands and artists will never really have the power that they did in the past, the superstars are so lame nowadays and it’s because of the internet I think. You know too much about them, they post stories on their social media and it just makes them the same as all the other thousands of artists posting on social media. There’s no element of mystery.
Follow central cee to see how it’s done
Kevin Parker from Tame Impala is probably the most recent “rock star” to become a millionaire. but he had to move away from his rock n roll sound and go synth / DAW based music to achieve the success. and he moved to the USA.
i can’t see a rock band achieving that kind of success anymore. music has moved on
Tobias Forge from Ghost is another one. Started as a underground metal band, now Ghost are everywhere. He refers at himself as a musician\entrepreneur. It popped out in my mind while I was watching this video.
Kevin Parker's early stuff is so freaking amazing. One of the rare gems in guitar music the past 15 years.
Heartbreaking really, but understandable
I still think there is a desire to simplify music consumption, or at least bring back TOTP where there's something we can all watch together. The system is too fractured and attention spans are shit. I miss the 90s.
@Michael Portillo Homunculi YES. The algorithms suck.
The majority of classic rock stars would not of been arsed to do all that admin work & spend their own money if they were starting out today. Could you imagine Liam, Shaun Ryder or Ozzy Osborne being bothered to do any of that 😆
Hence why they are classic
Plus off their heads on chemicals. You need a clear head for business.
It’s a sad thought that due to the high costs of starting a band, so many working class lads will give up before they even start, and it’s like a snowball effect of inspiring younger generations but if no role models exist then what would inspire a young kid to go out and buy his first guitar?
Great story James. Really enjoy your content. I was fortunate enough to make a record with Owen Morris in 2002 with Nick Brine to engineer. The band was Marah... I think we were one of the last acts to actually benefit from the old paradigm. Even though the record didn't sell squat. I was fortunate enough to squirrel away some of the cash and take care of myself. Although I still play music. I'm still scratching my head about how to get it out to the masses... Again ,very insightful... Thanks for the content... If you talk to Brino, Tell him Jamie from Philadelphia says sup!
Where there is a will, there is a way.
Yeah if Liam and Noel sort their wills out.
Enjoyed listening to this…… then watched Oasis live at Wembley in 2000…….
To follow through on your oil analogy, we end up with a poorer product, the electric car can never compete with the internal combustion engine for lots of reasons. And we have a poorer music product. In the 90s there were loads of great bands and artists, now we have inferior quality music that won't be remembered. Perhaps a quality filter is what's needed which previously was the role of the record company.
great video, great music’s still being made and listened to its just that the mainstream dosent like taking chances on great guitar music and i think that we’ll see the down fall of the major labels and radio stations fairly soon
Totally honest and informative. No BS. Huge Thanks .
CZcams and other social media sites can absolutely still cancel you if you move to far out of pocket
And this new strategy relies heavily upon these platforms
I am not the biggest fan of oasis, but if they got together there would be an explosion of some good rock bands in the uk again.
The top tier Major labels all own a piece of Spotify and other main streaming platforms. This is why it’s so hard to get on major playlists. So I’m a way, they still own the biz.
I totally agree with you James. It's the path I'm on right now.
Very insightful and showing a realistic path to success - if I were in a young band this would definitely inspire me, thanks James
Spot on James !
Nice one for sharing your experience. Please let's get back to Punk!!!!!
You are so right with everything you said mate
Listened to ur music loving it
I love your interpretation James..I would agree with you..✌🏼💙
💯
Great video! I’ve drummed for literally hundreds of artist, both indie and major. It’s definitely changed.
It’s a catch 22 to be honest. No mystery anymore, BUT now you have the distribution and tools the big gate keepers had. It’s an even playing field now, but then again there seems to be more ‘Bands then Fans’ of music now days.. I believe it’s due to all the distractions and distortion via social media, etc. An average of 10k song are released every day to put the saturation into perspective.
Anyway, great truthful video in regards to the “industry’s” current state.
James, I was in a band in the 90s that played at T In The Park, In The City (at Tony Wilson's invitation), and were courted by loads of labels and eventually offered a deal by Independiente.
I firmly believe that bands nowadays have literally never had it so good as they do now. With the advent of good DAWs and the recording power you can get from Macbooks and laptops these days, bands don't need big studios any more; they can do everything from a bedroom; record their music, send the tracks away to be mastered via the internet (a friend of mine does mastering for a living), and then upload them to the likes of Soundcloud and create their own buzz. You can film a video on an iPhone, and upload it to CZcams. They can completely bypass the leeches in the "music industry", and do it all themselves!
And personally I think that is utterly *fantastic*. It means that bands aren't diluted or their music changed by some stylist somewhere, and what they write can find its way to the right audience exactly as they want it to be.
The ability to do all the recording, mastering, distribution and promotion ourselves is something I just wish we'd had back in the day.
@Michael Portillo Homunculi Yep, all very good points. Any act hoping to make a career with solely an online presence isn't going to become wildly successful; I started making house tracks at home in 2000 or so when that scene was still quite small. Decent tracks could attract attention quite quickly in that scene, and there were a few people I knew of who managed to steer that into a proper career. But nowadays, anyone with an iPad can do the same, and rising above everyone else in the torrential river of similar tracks seems to be extremely difficult now. But they do say the cream rises to the top.
But really, a band with a bit of intelligence about them will pair all that homebrew infrastructure available to craft and record their own music with also getting out and playing to human beings.
Create your own buzz😅..what are you on about..the world is saturated with noise ..the idea that we have it better now is a smoke and mirrors lie created by record companies that swallowed up the indies that have made everything more corporate than ever. ..you would have to spend 90 percent of your life doing admin 10 percent creating..if you are going to spend 90 percent of your time on digital marketing..there are mors lucrative careers
This is actually really interesting and I think the internet and social media is not a force for good for society
The idea that the Internet has democratised music is a big fat fucking lie..its smoke and mirrors.. there is more money in the industry than ever..but its greedily controlled more than ever..people go on about how the old paradigm was geared towards the managers and record companies..well so what..it was their money..but at least if you were savvy enough you could convince one of those to bankroll you..and if you blew it up your nose then that's your fault.. buy if you sold enough you could get back on the ferris wheel..id rather have some dodgy fella with a cigar ripping me off than having no money at all and competing with woke wankers for scraps off the funding table..bring back the old days ..
Surely they are simply doing what indie bands/artists have always done.. being independent. The 90s was a blip if you look at he history of music. The 90s wasn't just about guitar bands it was about boy bands, girl bands, hip hop, dance music.. guitar music now can exist in its own market, as metal and dance does.. but people have to be willing to pay for music, and ibthink we've gone to far down the road of getting music for nothing. I'm sure at some stage guitar music will enter the charts again, . But will itvbe as culturally significant as it was, I'm not sure about that. Guitar music, hip hop or rap, dance music all seemed linked then, they were all independent music which invaded the charts. The British film industry was booming.. British fashion was booming, the government was changing over. Radio one still ruled and they were having a clear out, getting rid of the old guard, British comedy was massive.. i guess what I'm saying is its a perfect storm situation
They weren't all linked..dance music was omnipresent and guitar bands couldn't get a look in until around 93 and something started happening..but yea there was a lot of things coming together at once
Hi James, think you should do a review on the new Noel album, would love to get your opinion on it!
Yepyepyep and yep. 100% spot on. The "fall of the music industry" is sad only for the multi-multimillionaires. Meanwhile music continues.
Spot on!
So you wanna be a rock superstar
and live large
a big house, five cars, you're in charge :)
Hi, I like your Oasis videos 🤓
Hi back! And thanks
Good video. The one point I would add though is that if you look at the great influential and iconoclastic bands and artists throughout history, a lot of them had literally no business/entrepreneurial acumen. It also requires a massive degree of responsibility and no fooling around/bad behaviour. But yes you are correct. I think the bands and artists that are most likely to succeed in today's landscape will also have to be talented and savvy entrepreneurs and if they have this skill this will give them a huge edge. Having said that, I think this new landscape is very beneficial for smaller visionary independent labels who can support really talented emerging bands and artists who are not business savvy. Domino and Rough Trade are great examples and have been going from strength to strength.
You need to realise its not chance. It's social engineering. Tavistock and think tanks put bands like these bands in place.
Which bands?
Self made like gerry c is the best way surely.
This is awesome. However, I do prefer the demo version of "Mardy Bum" and always will. First track I heard, fell in love with it instantly, still a great fan of Arctic Monkeys. It doesn't always have to be expensive to record something magnificent.
👍🏻 aye lad
Very good example, "lovejoy" Is a band who gathered fame from already big social media accounts and are now taken seriously by many people instead of being the youtuber band
I remember when I was growing up, I used to be up on Saturday morning and watching CD:UK and Top Of The Pops and other music related shows at the time, and if they were still going today, I think newer bands like The Big Moon, NewDad and some others, would be more popular than they are now and streaming services were not a big thing when I was growing up, unlike they are now, and these acts do sometimes appear on TV, but mostly on late night shows with Graham Norton and Jonathan Ross, etc, and sometimes on other big shows over Christmas and New Year, etc, but it's still not enough to get people to buy their music unlike it was when I was a kid.
Great video and serious light at the end of the tunnel. Could be a problem in Scotland where the government intervenes direct and cancels you otherwise it’s all good.
Brilliant probably the best summing up of the reasons behind where we are at and puts an answer to my question that I have been asking for ages why are solo artists doing so well when bands dont these days. I was told it was because it was more expensive for the musician in a band than solo but maybe you are right and it's the record companies not signing bands. Metallica print their own vinyl so presume they also promote their own albums etc? ~And Imagine if the Sex pistols could not have been dropped haha....
James I agree with everything you’ve said here apart from working with/paying top dollar a professional producer. I think in this day and age learning to use a DAW such as Ableton or Cubase is a far more wise approach. I would say it’s essential to have an mixing engineer, but just because you’re paying thousands of dollars to work with a pro producer doesn’t mean you’re going to write a hit. A good riff is a good riff, and can sound good in any mix scenario. Just look at Definitely Maybe and how unprofessional it was produced.
I discovered Ren about 2 months ago, and yeah everything your saying here makes sense. He is blowing up after his song "Hi Ren" with no label and no marketing. Simply word of mouth on the internet. He shoots his own music videos with his friends and does many of his songs in 1 take and looks better than anything done by other artists with actual budgets.
Yes I agree. Ren is the most unique artist I’ve stumbled upon in a long time. He is a mega talent.
He's just another Eminem knock off.. Very boring
Gerry Cinnamon is the perfect example of this
100% agree with this, Here in NZ its the same as well, rock music is no where to seen or heard, just reggaeish pop like six60 *Yawn*. As a musician myself and a little band that i am in, we home record, we all use the same DAW, we send copies to each other and see what we can add to the recording as well physically practice, try to learn the ropes within the industry, prostitute ourselves really while maintaining our day jobs that we use to pay for our equipment etc, but doing this you learn so much more, and i wouldnt have it any other way, all the best future rock stars
Also, in NZ. Six60 are so overrated, but speak out against them, and the "average" people loose therir shit...😅
@mattabouttrails haha exactly, the amount of arguments I've had about six60 that after their first album they became shit god damn, feels like I'm about to get crucified
❤
Around the turn of the centuryl lol in my lifetime. Immediately, I'm reminded that as child I asked my grandmother if she remembered dinosaurs lol
Poor woman was born in 1926 lol. 😅
16:26 i never thought of it that way
Too good to be true .. no .. unfortunally not true ... You still can be cancelled by YT, FB, Insta etc. and actually it does already happen .. BUT all the best for You. Great content. Will check out Your music for sure.
Media landscape is so fragmented now. Bands with impacts like Beatles/Oasis are a thing of the past.
Sadly james, cancel culture is deeply embedded in our society.
Long live the revolution
A lot of this makes sense. However I'm unsure as to why you think physical sales are still relevant to 'big success'. It would be interesting for you to explain this.
Marillion and The Levellers as far as I know were the first to do all of this
pop will eat itself
Have you thought of talking with drummer and music professor Andy Edwards on this?
Well. Check
i have a masterplan
The mainstream music industry has always been the same. No matter how far you go back. Every now and again a Rock roll/indie guitar band will have the potential to make the industry money. If Rock rollers want to invade the mainstream. Like boxing. The bands that were successful would need to become a record industry itself. There are, always will be great Rocknroll bands. Money or not. That's not the point really. Create your own label. Sign up musicians you like to hear. Rather than hoping to make money. Real Rocknrollers just want to play. That's not to say I don't agree with you. I do.
Says nobody needs a record company and then proceeds to explain exactly why a record deal is probably a good idea.
He points out that the record companies don’t have the reach they used to.
They can reach further than you & I, but only if they spend big chunks of change. Which they’re not going to do.
Do you follow the windmill scene as well? (Black Country New Road, Black Midi, Squid, Idles etc.). I know this is very underground.
I'd check out Frankie Dobson's "the thieves" from Newcastle, they're fucking epic
When is your new album out, mate?
Not 100% sure, but won't be long now. Hoping to get the test pressings of the records next week, so it's all in process right now 👍👍
@@JamesHargreavesGuitar What does this mean like this year?
Rappers are the new rockers, we gotta wait for another britpop chiq to come back for like a month or 2.
Rap, hip hop dominance is old hat, and it's had a hold on the music scene for a while and it's getting tiresome. The time for a RnR revival is long overdue.
@@Miamiborne1969 when was the last time you heard any proper modern rock?
I miss great bands. It seems like forever since we enjoyed that magic.
@@tracerow5516 we all miss the 1st time we listened to Morning Glory 😂
why no mention of Wet Leg, Wolf Alice or Coach Party? they're great bands too
I mean this with the upmost respect but that is really subjective..when ever ive heard wet leg i thought they where really terrible..modern yuppy rock has no roll, and really it just doesn't know how..don't me wrong I like bands like the last shadow puppets and AM but as far I can see there's nothing original in 9 out of the 10 bands that get touted by the nme as "new and important"..
Wet leg r wank
Own the Touring company..... James Slow down mate....
Theres too much 'other' stuff involved that are definitely out of the band remit...... You need a Management Team..... U have a total valid point but The Band couldnt do it 'all' so to speak.
James, can you do please Oasis top books? I want to read something but i don`t know which one
I guess the charts will have to stick to the least common denominator music and risk averse production like Ed Sheeran and Taylor Swift (both are skilled songwriters who know the game) anyway. Even the prettiest faces like Måneskin couldn't really break through (they're a bit too young and inexperienced and kinda want to be all things at once) despite having a relatively ok content overshadowed by the success of a talent show cover.
You should read about Steve Albini
and Morrissey got 'dropped' by Capitol because he refused to not look back in anger.
...until the day he dies.
Professionally mixed? Producer? Didn’t Billie Eillish do all of that herself on her laptop? Or do I have it wrong
Billie Eillish comes from a millionaire family and had all the industry connections from her parents.
Her brother was already a very well respected producer
@@edoliva3264 Yeah right, We Sail by Maggie Baird, the 2009 album by Billie's mum, sold exceptionally well. (It should have, actually, since it's awesome!) She did, however, teach Billie how to write songs. Quite successfully.
I'd agree, I don't think you could be a British rock star today. Lockdown didn't help but where are the new Coldplays and Artic Monkeys....the genre is fucked.
I'm an indie DJ at a large club but the kids always ask fot the old classics...there doesn't seem to be anything new coming through.
The Ks, The Reytons, Courting? Great bands exist but how do they become mainstream now?
@@SteveDorrans sorry, i missed this. you are right. Modern bands don't stand a chance. Even the venues only seem to book tribute bands. The industry is on its knees.
I agree with everything you’ve said James about the DIY approach with the exception of paying someone to professionally mix & master your own music. all of this can be learnt and done in house. EQ, Compression & Limiting aren’t rocket science. -14 LUFS and you’re good for all streaming services
@@craigsanderson4330 absolute rubbish. the resources are there to learn this yourself, if you are willing to put the time in. James is the proof of this. he recorded, remastered and uploaded an Oasis tune from 1992. he didn’t need to pay a big time producer. the info is there & available for anyone with the drive, dedication & motivation. it’s not 1992 anymore
There is nobody writing great songs.. Let's be honest. All the greats had at least one massive hit, a smells like teen spirit or love will tear us apart again. That's what's needed.
My songs are better than everyone's send an email and I'll prove it
So are mine 😉
Breezer and Gerry Cinnamon are the only artists that in recent years could really get me interested again in indie music, I swear.
😅😅gerry cinnamon
I like your optimism but i don't see it, i see the music business carrying on and ignoring guitar bands for many years to come, i think you list in this video how big the mountain is...
also i thought it was good royal blood giving the crowd some. gets indie music talked about. but at the same time i think a lot of people reacted way too seriously to it 😂
Royal blood aren't really indie though
@@SealandBallwell indie/ alt whatever you wanna call it
@@olliefilmer7400 theyre just a pop group
@@SealandBallhow are they just a pop group
2:35 Why is it more healthy ?
Come on James. I love your channel but this is total tosh. The recorded music industry is actually making much more money today than it did in the 90’s. It topped $26.6 Billion last year and is still growing by around 9% a year. Rock n’ roll is out of fashion, that’s all. It’ll come back. To say that indie is about to catch up with the majors is ludicrous and highly inaccurate. And Morissey and Meighan aren’t exactly setting the world alight. But yes, as an artist, today you have an amazing set of options to do it yourself. Being a professional musician today is a career path rather than the pipe dream it was back in the 90’s. These are indeed exciting times. As you say the days of making squillions like Oasis are long gone, but you can certainly make a living if you work hard and smart.
You’re right. I read an article somewhere by a famous record executive from the 80s and 90s, and he said that streaming actually means major labels make more money than ever. And why? Because companies like EMI (for example) have a huge catalogue of millions of songs, and at any time of day, somewhere in the world, someone is listening to one of them. It’s now a 24/7 affair, unlike back in the day when you only had between 9am and 5pm to buy your music from record shops. This record executive did admit that the income is very small and incremental, given how much money is generated stream by stream, but he said that cumulatively having the entirety of a label’s catalogue on streaming does mean that when everything is totalled up they’re richer than they’ve ever been. The real problem behind the fall of the music industry, in my opinion, is that on the commerce side of things, video games are the new rock n roll, and have been for quite some time. In the 70s, more people were spending money on music than they were on cinema trips, largely because owning a vinyl record was one of the only consumer product you could buy to demonstrate your taste, besides clothes and books. Then along came VHS, video games, DVDs, blu-rays, cassettes… the whole consumer market was flooded with goods, and there is only so much one can buy. And lastly, the real reason why music is not the cultural force it once was is because either a) the artists are simply not good enough, or are no longer interested in becoming stars, b) the radio pluggers are playlisting the wrong kind of music entirety, because they are out of touch, meaning it’s only the McDonalds-esque fodder that makes the charts, or c) Technology has become so central to music production with computers and clean digital processing that it has stripped away the rawness and authenticity that makes human creative expression so compelling. What people want is raw talent, and sadly we’re not getting it. The fact that The Reytons and The Lottery Winners can get to No.1 means nothing, because their music is boring and it’s only because the bar an artist has to reach in physical sales to top the charts is lower than it’s ever been. In the end, I reckon the talent and creativity we once saw in music has simply migrated elsewhere to other industries - to video game creators, for instance.
@@BritishMusicHistory I've thought about this before too, but in a slightly different way. Back in the Victorian age the young 'rock n 'rollers' would run off to sea for adventure, then that turned into jazz, beatnik culture, then came rock n roll as the vessel for the youthful spirit. It does seem obvious to me that we have shifted again, that the spirit of rock n roll is now very much in other digital areas, like games and becoming influencers etc. I'm not sure the youthful sense of thrilling adventure will ever come back to guitar music, how can it really.
@@BritishMusicHistory good comment. 👍
Slight tangent but it's very easy to still be cancelled. Many people who have used free speech have had their bank accounts cancelled.
That boy from Mumford?who else ?
Yeah, but James-here’s the thing. You still need your network of fellow musicians. You still need your fans. They CAN cancel you. I know b/c it happened to ME just for being on the right of Karl Marx. So, I’d like to add another suggestion if I may: take the Dolly Parton approach. Entertain the ppl. Drop the politics.
I don’t think of James as doing politics.
That aside, I agree. Be the authentic you, produce material at least a sizeable audience likes a lot.
@@GT380man I’m not saying he is but nevertheless, music is a political game whether you realize it or not and the sooner you realize it, the better off you be. If you want to make it, be prepared to keep your views to yourself so you don’t get cancelled. Personally, I’m more interested in as you said, “being the authentic me”…but at 42, what I liked and what was relevant musically when I was young is entirely different than what ppl are into now. That is just a fact. As Noel said live in Philly back in July, “modern music is sh*t.” It’s like, the more shocking, revolting, simplistic, and stupid a song is, the more kids like it. I don’t get this generation AT ALL. I’m sorry. I don’t.
What are you going to say that would get your canceled? 😂
good luck competing with tiktok
Rock musicians write the hole song the clownish bland popstars are relying on corporate sponsorship let's hope British rock is coming back to stamp out hip hop once and for good
I like this guy’s channel and all, but has he been in a coma since 2007 or something? Nothing here is even remotely new or revolutionary. All the best to him, nevertheless.
Stick with oasis
There is no “mainstream “ it’s all diffused because of the internet….That’s why Liam Gallagher is THE LAST ROCK N ROLL STAR!
Can you imagine a band like the Sex Pistols or the Stooges trying to manage them self, sorry that is not going to happen, most true "rock stars" will always need help with the business side of the industry because they party way to hard! #drugs women and liquor!
Only bands like Coldplay who sell out