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Combat Controller in Black Hawk Down | Air Force Special Ops | World Record | Author | Dan Schilling
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- čas přidán 16. 08. 2024
- Join our weekly Combat Check-In Newsletter (www.combatstory.com/newsletter) to get a short email from Ryan for people who love and support our veterans, service members, and their families. It has info on a significant event in military and/or intel history, a funny military joke, an update on a current event I'm following, something I'm doing that week in my life, a book I'm reading, a look at an upcoming interview, a reflection on a past episode and more!
Today we hear the Combat Story of Dan Schilling, who spent over 30 years in the military, primarily as a Combat Controller and Special Tactics Officer in the Air Force’s Special Operations community. He was on the ground calling in air strikes during Operation Gothic Serpent (better known as Black Hawk Down).
He holds the Guinness World Record for most BASE jumps in 24 hours (201), and is a professional-rated demonstration skydiver, mountain speedwing pilot and volunteer ski instructor with Wasatch Adaptive Sports. He’s a best selling author, helping produce a movie, and recently wrote a song with his band: Spent Brass.
After years of combat, Dan found his way to Buddhism and shares some readings and learnings that you can apply if you are dealing with trauma and challenges in your life.
I hope you enjoy this hair on fire account of living life to its extremes - both in and out of uniform - as much as I did.
Find Ryan Online:
- Ryan’s Linktree linktr.ee/comb...
- Merch www.bonfire.co....
- Instagram @combatstory / combatstory
- Facebook @combatstoryofficial combatst...
- Send us messages at m.me/combatsto...
- Learn more about Ryan www.combatstory.com/aboutus
- Intro Song: Sport Rock from Audio Jungle
Find Dan Online:
- Website www.danschilli...
- Dan's Books www.danschilli...
- Instagram @danobooks / danobooks
- Special Operations Warrior Foundation specialops.org/
- Spent Brass on Spotify open.spotify.c...
Dan's Reading List:
Book called the Power of Now shop.eckhartto...
Book called the Power of Awareness
www.thepowerof...
Book called Battle of Mogadishu
www.booksamill...
Book called Alone at Dawn
www.grandcentr...
Book called What the Buddha Taught
www.ahandfulofl...
Video Credit: Parkcity.tv. • 201 BASE Jumps in 24 H...
Show Notes:
0:00 - Intro
0:57 - Guest Introduction (Dan Schilling)
1:47 - Interview Begins
2:33 - World Record Base Jumping in 24 hours
6:44 - Speed flying in the mountains
9:14 - Did you choose the dangerous life or did it chose you?
12:19 - Joining the Army
16:02 - Transition from the Army to the Air Force
20:15 - Media and Hollywood portrayals of the military
25:29 - JTAC and Combat Controllers
34:06 - Special Tactics Officer
38:48 - Culture differences between Seal Team 6 and Delta Force
42:09 - First experience in ground combat
48:00 - Combat Story - The Battle of Mogadishu
1:03:18 - Therapy through Extreme Sports
1:13:37 - How Dan found Buddhism
1:27:47 - Dan's Band: Spent Brass
1:22:19 - Dan's post military careers and book recommendations
1:31:35 - What did you carry into combat?
1:32:24 - Would you go back and do it all again?
1:35:27 - Listener comments and shout outs
As a former green beret sniper, who deployed with CCTs attached to the ODA, I can tell you that I hated having them around because they were so good that I could hardly get any shots out. My targets were getting blown up by our support air guided by the pre-planned targets the CCTs had prepared for the mission. Great group of guys.
You should do an interview with this channel. I'm sure you habe your own story to tell
they just added a 4th combat operator to their list,
An old job that the name stopped fitting, and then they went under ISR, they were the SOWT, Specail Operation Weapons Team, Battlefield Airmen, but what they were really doing was Force Recon, So the new SR Special Tactics Officers go through 80 weeks of training..wth I know that sounds crazy, but that's what it adds up too..
I believe it!…ain’t the first time I heard of our boys throwing a fit for not getting dibs on the enemy….the only time greedy makes sense to be honest 👊🏽 #Salute
As former Air Force, I've been waiting for this one, Ryan. I'm so stoked that the movie about John Chapman wasn't canceled.
Same, and the Marcus Latrell PJs they left out of the movie, which could have been a movie itself..
@@Evocati-Augusti Can you elaborate?
@@picolascage5270 The rescue was at night and the PJs (C/SAR) had to land on the side of a mountain of a very very small cliff...
CMSgt Markham flew with our AC-130 in Afghanistan. Really cool dude, I was able to let him operate the 105mm, he had the biggest smile and said “man gunships are cool”. All I could think was “your the coolest guy in the Air Force and you like my job”. 😎
Every cod player loves using the ac-130, can’t imagine what’s it is like in real life
😢
Charlie Mike was my senior enlisted manager from ‘10-12. Freaking amazing guy.
Nice interview. I never met Dan, he was in the schoolhouse while I was in the 21st CCT Squadron down the street, or if I did I don't remember. But I did serve with Jeff Bray (RIP). I served with the STS for 10 years. He isn't joking about the schools the Controllers go to nor the damage they take serving. The STS community is not well known, but if any SOF deploy either the 24th or one of the Tier2 STS units will deploy as force multipliers. I have personally seen how they need to ingratiate themselves since when they are not doing a stand alone STS mission they may have only 2 Controllers that are consistently being evaluated and watched. Of course in the last 20 years since I got out I think there is less of that due to all the exposure the STS operators have gotten serving with other units. The book "Alone at Dawn" is a great read about the CCT pipeline and STS community as well as Chappies sacrifice.
As an Air Force veteran, I’m so happy that I found this interview, but more importantly that Air Force special forces get some well deserved recognition.
Combat Controllers and PJ’s are incredibly elite.
This was a great episode
I am so stoked to see this movie when it comes out.
I love listening to this man. These men are in a class of their own. My dad is a CWO5. Career Army. He specialized in intelligence and aviation. Was a helo pilot to start his career. He eventually flew Air Force One. Even now, at 74 years old, he refuses to retire and enjoy the old mans life.He is a flight Instructor now (civilian). The stories he has... God bless all of our military. It never leaves them no matter how old they get. ❤🇺🇲
Another fantastic pod cast Ryan. The CCT mission is fascinating to me. Probably because I work in aviation and love sky diving, scuba diving, & shooting. I would love to hear more pod casts on CCT if, in the future, the opportunity to interview more of these courageous men presents itself. Thank you for your service and for sharing our soldiers stories.
Having spent a good amount time in Combat arms , I never knew what AF combat controllers did. Now I know. Great interview by a great man. Not easy to speak about one’s own demons. It’s good if more of us do. Thanks again for such a great interview!
Thank you for all of your work Ryan. This interview is terrifying. When l listen to a man with that level of intelligence, eloquence, focus and grit, possibly the perfect personality for warfare, l thank God he has decided to be a man of peace rather than conflict
My brother just retired from a career working with CCTS and in the pipeline. He is still there but on the civie side now. I feel stupid because I had no idea that these guys existed or how bad ass that they truly are. The Air Force spares no expense in their training and facilities for these guys. The Human Performance aspect alone is amazing. I remember Shrek's stories of Tora Bora and just how many dudes the CCTS wiped out.
that fact that so few hear of them speaks volumes of their professionalism.
Ryan thank you for all you do and have done at 75 I always feel I have learned a life lesson. Dan Schilling, what an amazing individual, thank you
The Power of Now was a life changing tool for me while getting sober (which saved my life) fifteen years ago.
Thanks again, Ryan, for what you're doing for the community.
Great interview, you can tell this guy has alot of stories..... You gotta get him in again.
Great episode. I met Dan a few times. A good friend of mine worked with Him and Just Loved this Dude. Inspiring!
Combat controllers are so amazing, it blows my mind about how effective their training makes them and how its literally just another day at the job for them lol. That story about Tony Travis in Haiti blows my mind. The military depends SO so much on their enlisted and its amazing how far we have come throughout the years, consistently improving ourselves and upgrading all of our training.
Alone at Dawn is my favorite post 911 book. I learned so much about CCT from that book. I highly recommend it.
I too loved, "Alone at Dawn." You would probably also enjoy, "No Room For Error:..." by Col. John Carney & Ben Schemmer. Another great read that tells about the evolution of Combat Control into the Special Ops Force as we know it today.
He wrote Alone at Dawn. The video capturing the Medal of Honor is on youtube.
A book recounting how Technical Sergeant John Chapman spearheaded an assault to recover a fallen seal in waist-deep snow. He was shot and abandoned by the seals but continued fighting alone. His last moments were him assaulting the enemy while the QRF (Ranger Chinook) was hit by an RPG and made an emergency landing.
I've read Alone at Dawn and The Power of Awareness and always love hearing Dan speak. Great interview Ryan.
Love your podcast/YT show! Super professional and honest in origin.
I really enjoyed your discussion with Dan Schilling. He was inspiring to say the least. Keep up the good work. Jody in Alabama 🤠
This is one of my favorites, likewise because Dan has a bit of a different flavor both in personality, his job description/role, and, of course, his "flow" in this whole interview session. Great talk and I'll probably be watching this again. I'm admittedly ignorant about top tier ops and the like, but I confess I didn't know jobs like Dan's even existed. Thanks again for organizing this. And Ryan, great interviewing as always.
I want to hear another equal length feature about Dan's education pathway after he got out of the military! And Dan, I'm definitely a Christian, but I respect your life philosophy and reasonability in approaching life. All the best in all your endeavors!
So glad you got Dan on!!
Excellent interview!
The Shrek dude from delta, or the “sheriff of Baghdad” was with that controller who dropped so much ordinance at Tora bora. Said they killed thousands.
John McPhee is an absolute beast!! Super nice guy and amazing coach-
You’re think of “The Admiral”
Stockdale. The guy who wrote 'Kill Bin Laden' was full of praise for him and the other CCTs from the Two-Four. When I read that book I always wondered why the author used the pseudonym 'The Admiral' for him. Then when more info about that mission was declassified and they referred to a CCT MSGT named 'Stockdale' I knew it had to be him.
Really great interview!!
I’ll pick up a copy of his book, I was part of operation United shield and it was difficult to find out anything from the mission Dan was apart of. Semper Fi
The maestro. Like the conductor of an orchestra. Does not play an instrument. But nobody plays on cue without him.
The river/ bridge he jumped off of is beautiful. Great trip of your into kayaking or paddle boarding. Almost like a mini Grand Canyon.
My uncle was a PJ during the time that Mr Dan was in. The Air Force special ops community are made up of incredible individuals!
Dude! haha no way, I was just thinking the other day you should have Dan Schilling on haha, that's crazy! Awesome episode. It'd be great if you could get former Cobra/Apache Pilot CW4 Daniel Flores on here.
Great guest and stories, remember reading the book blackhawk down and reading about Dan
"Alone at Dawn" is the best book on the GWAT there is. "Swords of Lighting" was great... as was "Lone Survivor" "Fearless" "Unafraid" "Death Waits in the Dark, Six Guns don't Miss" " No Ordinary Dog" ....I could go on and on. I listen to them all at least twice on Audible. However "Alone at Dawn" is my favorite. I've listened to it as well as "Not a Good Day Die" at least four times each.
All good books. I would add “Kill Bin Laden” - by Dalton Fury
Relentless Strike - by Sean Naylor
Drone Warrior. - by Brett Velicovich
Killer Elite. - by Micheal Smith
The Commandos - By Doug Waller
"lone survivor" is a fraud just like it's author Marcus Luttrell... Just fyi ☝️
I am a rigger in the entertainment industry.
Sometimes I work with tier type people.
I feel like they are attracted to the controlled risk elements of the job. A bit of danger becomes a buzz.
Great interview, I was a Forward Observer with 2/5 HHB 1st ID, back then there either weren’t CCTs or JTacs, we had FAC’s at the time, Forward Air Controller’s, but as FO’s we did train some with calling in Close Air Support in case we didn’t have one or he was hit and couldn’t continue we stepped into that realm, as FO’s we had a lot of weight to carry, figure a full ruck, then add a PRC 77 and a few spare batteries, I was also a grenadier since I was issued a M16 A2 with a 203 attached so I would have a vest full of 40mm grenades besides however many mags I could grab, and I was a bean pole at the time, 6’2” and 155lbs, the ruck and equipment weighed damn near my own weight, and for half my I was tasked out to a couple different Infantry Companies, those guys had 1/2 the weight I carried so when we went out and had say a 20K hike to the target man my legs absolutely hated me, and I’m paying the price now I’m older, 5 surgeries on my back, my hips and knees are shot, my right arm, chest and shoulder are numb most of the time, enough about me now this interview is one of the best I’ve seen to date, excellent content and tarted getting deep a couple times, keep doing what you do, some of your interviews are like therapy for me and I’m sure many others as well, thank you.
Great interview Ryan. Air Force spec ops guys don't get nearly the credit they deserve. I read Alone at Dawn a while back and it's an incredible story. I hope the movie gets made. Will be interesting to see how "Hollywood" it gets. I wish all these based on a true story movies would just follow the real story as much as possible. Not much online about the progress of the movie.
Just a small correction to the person (or computer program) that is placing his vocabulary to typed words on the screen, it is not Terra Beta Buddhism, it is Theraveda Buddhism, better known as the Thai Forest Tradition. Much admiration to all involved with this combat story, from a former "tailpipe".
Thank you, Ryan and Dan.
So, CCT is better than everybody and does everything better than everybody. Got it. The book makes a lot more sense after hearing this interview.
No. Army cook is still the best.
What a legend
Always great content. Thank you.
Brilliant interview and kudos for Dans philosophy on life. Life is full of extremes and it is easier to find peace when you have experienced the extremes of war. Would you rather be a warrior in a garden or a gardener in a war.
Illusions-is also a great book from Richard Bach (Johnathan Livingstone Seagull) - even more relevant to pilots.
I will be checking on the Budda book, from how you talk about it I may have found my new "religion". Southern Baptist didn't suite me well, Took me the last 10 hard yrs of Agoraphobia. It all came clear this past April, Fear is now gone. I have a respect for Fear, but I don't Fear IT. I would love to tell him how I came to my Incorrect reality and had the pathways to peace and love opened.
❤️🇺🇲❤️
Thanks for sharing your success and struggles
Nice
Nice
This was awesome. I hope to see a follow up interview. Outstanding!
Incredible interview thanks guys🤠👍
OUTSTANDING!!!!!!
Happy New year Ryan and all
Dan been a long time glad we were able to email when when I found the book “Alone at Dawn”. RLTW
Very informative show,,,,,,thank U Sir,,,
21:00 that’s a great point. Almost no one knows about cct and it’s a shame.
Happy new year Ryan- another gem -
Good one!
Quite an interesting interview. Cheers.
Fact Check - Dan was not a surfer kid in Newport Beach. He never surfed in CA...I think he was born in Costa Mesa. I know he was raised in Costa Mesa until he was in 5th or 6th grade...then moved to Redlands California...Where he started skateboarding...nothing in Newport...
Awesome. I’m glad these operators will get the credit they deserve… on the other hand, I’m sad that they will be more publicly known as their business is supposed to be done in the shadows. I have mixed emotions here. Aim High.
Ooooo my god thats my cousin.... go willie boyi love you kuz.
As a non-combat vet filled with the REAL heroism stories of wartime experiences, I almost apologize for asking painful question, was VietNam worth losing 58000 killed, probably 200,000 wounded? Was Iraq worth our 15+ year investment in our most treasured youth? I remember hearing about ??? 150 or 1500 Rangers landing in Mogadishu one day, only to be thrown into chaos the next. I am not so sure that our leadership is making good decisions. My grandsons are approaching the ages of making the military decisions, join or not? It is all up to them, but my vote is no. American political leadership tends to horrifically waste the greatest treasure of our youth, and the families who have them. Praise all of them, for the decisions, they made, but ??? don't go there if there is no cause to fight for?!!
As a 22 year combat veteran I pray my children don’t follow in my footsteps. Senior leaders both military and civilian have repeatedly failed our military. I think it was all worth it if you believe the stories told to the public that thrust us into those wars. If we examine the truth, probably not but I imagine if we knew the truth (whatever it is) those politicians and senior leaders wouldn’t be around long.
Sadly, at a time when we need strong young men to stand up and serve is also a time where the environment where they could thrive and contribute has been contaminated with non-performers and toxic conformists with no spines.
Fucking fuck yes! I’ve been waiting for this ❤
Dano! Finding a way to get things done…
It has been a long time... Dan looks very familiar. Dan, If you broke your leg on a night cert jump in the PI in 87... I still feel bad about jinxing U in the Bullpen. 1rst Clark ;)
I always have to remind myself that the men who fought in Mogadishu were unique compared to the guys we hear from the GWOT. It gives an entirely different perspective on their actions.
I sensed the rivalry with the Seals LOL reminds me of Chris Osman on the Mike Drop Podcast saying he punched out Chapman's combat controller buddy
This is the song “Sons of War/Veteran” that Dan Schillings band Spent Brass just released. czcams.com/video/8coO8yV6LjY/video.html
Everyone should read Dan's book about John Chapman 🗽
geezers rule!!
I am so happy for Dan. He appears to be living his best life and that is damn impressive. One would assume that after 3 or4 divorce's that he would be living in a cardboard box or under a bridge on food stamps. Seriously, when he said that I was dumbfounded. Odd, but strange reality in today's society.
Let's keep his early years real...
Speed wing pilot…those dudes that zip through rocks n free fall at a buck thirty…after bhd I’d do it too…
Is his middle name "Dynamic" ?
Referring to Jake Gyllenhaal being unable to lead the movie. He said the project is still on, they’ll find another lead, “a better actor”. I’m sure he regrets those words. It poisoned the role for anyone who has a relationship with Jake.
QUTSTANDING!!!!!!!!!
Combat Controllers, the field goal kickers of the Special Ops world...
Dude, you need to lighten up. It’s a joke and in direct reference to what he said. Were you in the military?
I’ve heard that JTACS , combat controllers and the like get the best drugs to stay awake in combat . may be why this man is so chill ? 😂 great interview
Should of never left Bagram
liked your comment about how you are always an outsider, so your work is treated as team effort when everything goes right, but not when there is an accident. Heard of the joke about Mario the Goat-F???er? Just make a mistake with ONE goat!
Get Peter Berg for the Operation Anaconda movie. Sam Hargrave is a mistake
This is a weird man!
The United States of America does not take hostages. We do take detainees and prisoners to the required locations.
Had to turn this episode off. Rare I enjoy this channel.
I dont think youll find many better actors than jake just a bit of sour grapes I think all armed forces are just as good as each other your one big team working together as one
Not sure you could get a non woke movie today but I hope.
⛩
What about the reincarnation in Buddhism? Where is the morality in Buddhism? The Dali Lama practices a heretical form of Buddhism.
His on the wrong track with Buddhism. It's not the way to God.
19:20 - sorry buddy. Your training is not harder than SEAL training
idk, recently the TACP pipeline, not even CCT/PJ/SR selection just had a 95% attrition. It is even harder because of the cuts from the USAF.
Everyone in SOF knows that AFSOC pipeline is at least 2-3x as difficult as BUDS/SQTs.
The proof is in the pudding. CCTs and PJs have to be able to operate with all of the JSOC SMUs, as well as USASOC and NAVSPECWAR units.
Anyone who has worked with AFSOC CCTs and PJs knows their reputation. If you throw shade on them, it just exposes the fact you've never worked with them.
30:20 - wow this guy thinks he’s the shit 😂😂
It’s not your kill bro - you called in a plane.
I can’t believe he is bragging about the dude having more kills than any SEAL in history in his first 20 minutes -
That’s like the dude who dropped the nuke on Hiroshima bragging about having more kills than your guy in all 11 deployments.
I’m done watching here - this guy….
FOs and Scout Snipers have the same type of relationship to the enemy KIA outcome.
TACPs and JTACs have carried a lot of the weight when it comes to enemy KIAs.
For the kids who play CoD and think that's real, it's time to stop the SEAL ball-washing and learn more about how things really work.
I respect the hell out of this guy, but saying the mission was a 100% success from an operational standpoint cannot be true. Two choppers shot down and 20 dead good guys is bad. But they fought their assess off, and every one of them should have a Medal of Honor.
In mission planning, there is something called Commander's Intent in the Mission paragraph.
There is a specified end state in Paragraph 2. Reaching that end state equals mission success.
In Mogadishu, the mission was to capture Aidid's lieutenants.
I would NOT recommend this dudes book. Instead of focusing his story on chapman, all he does is ball licking for cct. We get it, you guys are badass. But the way you used Chapman's platform to push your macho agenda, is quite sad. I feel like he used this platform in a similar manner
you should listen to his interview when he talks about writing the book with John's sister and maybe it will give you some context. He was very upfront with her about it. He said I want to tell John's story and the history of CCT. I think it was a great historical perspective about this field that nobody really knows about. He is proud of CCT, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I loved how in the book he went back and forth with John's life and other controllers. He doesn't talk about himself in that book at all, it's all bragging about his brothers...to me that says something.
Even if that's the case chapman's story needs to be told so that every person in this country hears his name and if that's what it takes to accomplish that then so be it
@@thetaksyndicate6234Agreed. Also, Schilling never mentioned his own accomplishments in Alone at Dawn. To me this shows that Combat Controllers aren’t “me me me” professionals (cough cough seal’s). Instead they pursue something that is bigger than themselves. That alone deserves a ton of respect since we are living in an age in which narcissism can easily be developed.
The truth is, ST6 cheerleaders don't like seeing their heroes exposed for one of the most egregious acts in US military history.
You can write off the fog of war and all for a minute, but when you realize they fought Chapman's MoH, then put their Team Leader in for one for that mission where they left him alone to die on the OBJ says a lot about how unprofessional and toxic some of those leaders were.
Then to have their own guys writing books and making false claims about the Bin Laden raid adds ammunition to the argument against them.
Nice