First of all i really appreciate the content you're creating. You have a different way of looking things and explaining it also. Should the stance on your standstills or especially distance shots be wider than people tend to use? If you watch Kristian Kuoksa or Rasmus Saukkoriipi throws they stay really low and use long last step before shifting weight to plant leg. Kristian and Rasmus actually use kinda same stance that i teach basketball players to use when they practice how to be "shifty". Weight is in the ball of your feet and inside. During basketball plays knees go actually inside of the ankles that way it's easier to create pressure and shift weight when you do "body fakes". What you think about this?
Totally! Watch my shin angles in the very first throw at the beginning. I'm continuing to improve, but this is when I was first getting parts of this to work in standstills. Keep in mind that it's not just the interior pressure of the feet or just the balls of the feet- it's the flow back and forth like Seabas22 talks about in his Figure 8 video. It think it's trickier to learn than it seems for most people, myself included. I actually have started practicing standstills and x-steps from lower stances like Kuoksa or Saukkoriipi and switch to taller like Gurthie or Feldberg to improve how my legs transfer weight and rock me. The thing you need to get used to looking for is what Kuoksa has in common with the more vertical guys like Gurthie - it's just a difference in the dynamic stance and force direction. Notice that Kuoksa is still using a very long flattened pendulum or wave to power his throw, it's just much less obvious at first: i.imgur.com/3cnkdHB.png If I want to throw a distance standstill, especially when pushing my mechanics, I find it easier to practice it with an aggressive vertical pump (think Catrina Allen) from a higher stance that maximizes the force in that direction. If you want to throw a Kuoksa-like standstill, you really need to get very good drift and rock and leverage ahead of the rear leg. I still personally find it easier to move more like a Gurthie or seabas22 with my body type, but when I talk to the more horizontal guys it's about trying to get the same mechanics along that direction. Anecdotally, I do want to mention that I see a lot of people struggle trying to start horizontal because they haven't figured out how to maximize the drift over the drive leg with gravity yet. Remember that even Simon started out extremely vertical too and was freaking crushing, probably toning it down for consistency over time: czcams.com/video/TG8b7sHVZc0/video.html I'm going to say more about this soon because I'm learning a lot of subtle but surprising things this month that are really helping. Almost every single non-pro player I look at has serious trouble with this.
@@AceItDiscGolf During this season i've worked on Kuoksa "style" weight shift into brace with that one step style. There's been couple days when i've nailed it. On those days throws feel like i've done nothing and discs still go as far as with a full run up on bad days. Haven't really tested different ways on coming into the brace, Kuoksa or Gurthie/Gibson style. It would be kinda logical to use more vertical way of force production if you don't have heavy sports background and/or lot's of strength&power. Definetly need to test this out! Thanks for the tip. I know that there's not a one right way of throwing discs...it's actually the same with basketball. Even though good forms have almost the same things in common. In basketball catch - lift - follow through. In disc golf through if you've got good timing, brace and follow through usually results are pretty good. 😆 Lately the most important thing on getting into my brace have been keeping lead hip high during x-step. Haven't actually tested this out on standstills, yet. Really looking forward on your upcoming videos. Especially if you can "crack the mystery" key words how to product force through ground depending vertical/horizontal way.
And again... You addressing the issues I have at the moment. Hoprfully I am able to geht this alle together in one chain. Somewhere in the future. Thank you again for your work
Very nice! Condensed but still very thorough! Not easy to do with these topics. I also appreciate your ability to know what questions may be asked and answering them as you go. I’m very much looking forward to the next video as well. Thanks!
I'm just starting to notice a rock back and forward in my throws this last week. Going to give this a try and see if I can exaggerate it more and get it feeling more natural.
I've watched all your videos and appreciate your research into the biomechanics and your teaching style. Your selfless demonstration of even the smallest necessary motions, and your physical display of how they "suddenly" combine into a throw are invaluable to me. I'm 63, so I'm not looking for 500'. I'm looking for another 10 years of 300'.
300' can get a lot done out there! I'm inspired by people like you. My goal is to maximize what I can get as safely as possible. I want to be playing for a long time!
@@AceItDiscGolf The cheat is short form for the rock for sure. I had to use it with students that literally could not get into the positions with the rock walkup.
@@AceItDiscGolf I mostly talk through it but the speed skater analogy comes up a bit and I’ve been using a loopghost thing with the squat bar. I don’t have a single way I talk through it or prefer at the moment.
When throw after watching your videos, I often end up spinning around on my heel like a top. If I try to brace more (skate), I feel like i'm going to spin on my knee. What am I doing wrong, am I not effectively bracing? Coming to forward...? SO lost!
Usually issues like that mean that you're not truly shifting laterally like a sidestep, but rotating somewhere in a joint incorrectly in the sequence. It's impossible to know exactly the source without a form review. The right leg action is very much like doing a "skater" or side shuffle step - striding truly laterally. I can personally attest that another problem is that other things can go wrong in your posture or sequence that also screw up this lateral stride 😞 The seabas22 Kick the Can or Ball video might be helpful!
@@AceItDiscGolf Thanks, I'll check out those videos (and yours again) and tread carefully before I blow out my knee! I'll video myself next chance I get. In the meantime I now suspect that I'm shifting my weight onto my plant foot (crushing down on the can) and then after I'm spinning around (hips) on my heel to throw. If I understand the correct motion, I'm supposed to use the energy from lateral motion to twist my hips, whereas I'm kinda stopping one motion to do the other right now. Q- if I brace correctly (skate), should I feel like after I throw I'm almost going to fall back towards my pull? Just like if I"m skating without throwing? I don't see that when professionals throw, but I'm also not throwing that hard or precisely. Just trying to get bearing on how that energy from bracing moves up my leg etc.
First time ive seen anyone mention shifting your butt backwards, going to have to try this out in my round later today. Seems like something that might have been a missing mental connection.
Seabas22 talks about it a lot, his buttwipe video helps describe the same concept. The action is surprisingly hard to master for a lot of people. Also known as the Hogan Power Move. I found the way Shawn Clement talks about it in ball golf to be the most intuitive and seabas22's the best at working on the posture. I never mindlessly advise this stuff - I always test it and look at sources myself and debate about it with folks. Most people with big platforms don't talk about this much, if at all. There are athletic people who can throw pretty far with big runups that do not use it. They would throw even further with less effort if they mastered this.
Guess I never connected the butt wipe with posture change, I think your explanation was clear enough to make it understandable. Thanks for the great videos, keep em comin.
@@ScouterReport Great - yes, I think I might say setting up in the right posture and moving with pogo legs helps you get the right buttwipe. It may require additional work finding the ideal one (I still work on it here and there when I change stuff and there's still some inconsistency in my own form).
#308 here again. Thanks for sharing your learning. I have seen a variety of styles be successful, so I wonder how body differences influence styles. 1. As for back leg counterbalancing, I think it works with very flexible hips. The counterbalance action does not impede the front hip from accelerating through the hit points. While tight hips cant go in opposite directions without the back hip holding the front hip back, thus losing power. Your thoughts? 2. I watch FPO, and the thinner players spin the the back then front hip, so fast you cant see it clearly. It looks deliberate, and it looks like the source of their power. However, there are a few women with big butts and plenty of upper body weight. They have big reach-backs, lead with their butts, and dont emphasize front hip rotation, but depend on hard braces. So, could it be, if you are light weight on top, the body swing method is less effective? Better is to use core, legs and hips to maximize rotational force when thin? Your thoughts? FYI, when I was young and a top distance thrower, i was all legs. I used a 360 and very springy legs. I sprung up as well as forward going into the throwing motion. I jammed my front leg into the ground hard, wearing soccer cleats. I put my full body weight in the air and then full brakes on landing to tranfer power into the disc. Then i finished looking like James Conrad does today, spinning out, bent over. It worked, but crazy athletic, unique style. Not realistic at age 67. I mention this to demonstrate that I get the idea of maximum forward force and a bounce. I wonder if your approach works best for huskier body types with flexible hips while the hip-spin approach works best for thin bodies with tighter hips... So maybe what others suggest on other channels isn't misinformation, but rather information that applies to a certain body type?
Welcome! I am careful to say "conflicting" information because in the end I don't think there's any one authority on the issues. I usually aim to share what is known from elite sports performance in other swings and how it works in top throwers. All top MPO players at the peak end of distance use some version of a shift from behind and counterbalance, but there is variability in their throwing axes and other details. 1. I do think flexibility always helps and maybe especially in the hips and shoulders. Even though I'm only in my thirties it took a long time to limber my lower body up back to where it was in my 20s. It was hard, slow progress over time. Some people may need to adapt or limit certain mechanics depending on their circumstances, but limbering up is always good if possible. 2. FPO players often lack at least part of the figure 8 mechanics and shift from behind. I wish we could run a controlled experiment training different mechanics and look at the effects 2 years later. People like Paige Pierce show what can happen with those mechanics and good athleticism and overall form at a short stature. Ella Hansen beat Paige at the long drive this year by a bit even though she has less of a complete tilted spiral and coil in her form. She's taller, longer levered, and potentially stronger and more athletic than Paige (though that's hard to quantify from behind a screen!) So I think we still have a lot to learn about peak potential in FPO, but a lot of the spin action in the lower body (unlike Pierce's) seems likely to impede distance, rather than be the source of it, if the backhand form is ideally more like other swings. I am curious though if they in general have to use their mass in somewhat different ways for peak force, just pointing out PP as one exemplar. Of course, these mechanics all operate in the context of the whole system, and I still experiment with things too! On body type and jamming- every form change I've made has reduced jamming or abrupt effort in my body and reduced overall effort and/or increased distance. I actually use the wear and tear on my body as the primary body before pushing for distance. You definitely don't want to do things that jam up those important hips!!! On body type, it's hard to find a rule. I think the closest ones are that flexibility always helps, quickness and rhythm always helps. Tall and long levered people can get more out of horizontal force, and stocky people definitely benefit from more gravity. Arm slots are also a pretty big deal and I was surprised how much they mattered in my form. People with stronger legs can get power more crouched. Not all just my opinions there but from studying lots of form reviews. I do think that my body type is going to give me the heavyweight boxer version of DG form. I'll end up with more hop, a lower arm slot, and definitely need to maximize the weight shift. I'll never run very fast so it's especially important to maximize those parts of my form. The fact that there's some variability is definitely meaningful, though it is also meaningful from a safe power perspective to notice what shows up in top throwers. I really do wish we had more legitimate science in DG because I mostly have to rely on observation, my coach, testing it myself, and crosswise comparisons to other swing sports. Always happy to speculate about any players in particular or hear more from you in any case!
One other thought lol. I really, really think people underestimate how far they can learn to throw on one leg. If you can pull off a one handed golf swing, you can get the basics of a powerful one leg throw with some work.
@@AceItDiscGolf This is absolutely true. Each time I make a form change, I throw from a standstill for 2 to 5 weeks. I'm amazed how little distance is lost. A standstill is mostly one leg, since the push off of the back leg is weak.
@@AceItDiscGolf Many good points. Easily agree with your POV. As for the counterbalance leg, when you do it without the disc, it does look like a skater, when you throw into the net, the back leg swings around on the finish. This seems to match most pros; the off arm rotates to the front at the finish. Are both these versions of a counterbalanced back leg, in your opinion? What would not be a counterbalance? What does that look like?
@@michaelcushman Good eye: the counterbalance describes the action of the rear leg swinging back and under the body, and can be more or less extreme or straight or bent-legged depending on the player and throw style. I'll try to distinguish a complete counterbalance, partial counterbalance & partial coil, and no counterbalance with examples here. In the skater or swim-skater, notice I'd be more throwing in an extreme hyzer. If I went faster and release a disc, the follow through would pull & spiral me back up and more away from the target. When I throw in that little sway segment after that, I'm throwing on less hyzer and low speed. In swing theory, the follow through of that off arm will tend to be 90 degrees-ish to the line in an ideal swing, representing the main line of force heading on the line, and the remaining force diffusing on an orthogonal line (right hand angle relative to the line). Sorry if that's a bit technical. Some players coil a bit less and don't counterbalance as extremely. Those players also tend to use more of a runup to get their force. Chris Dickerson is one example - he still does have a counterbalance, but it is less than e.g. Simon or Gibson and he is venting more of the leftover force forward after his distance drives. That goes back to your body type comment maybe - Dickerson is small but very quick, so maybe he can pull that move and there's a tradeoff. I'm curious about that. Or maybe if he got into a rock and plant with more counterbalance he'd get some more power. Coach T at Slingshot also generates a lot of his distance from his runup but does not appear to use a rear-leg counterbalance and swings with his shoulder somewhat open over his brace. Obviously with his speed and athleticism he still generates good distance. Christine Jennings here in the Overthrow montage also does not have a counterbalance: czcams.com/video/dYQ0OlKyT00/video.html&ab_channel=OverthrowDiscGolf To be slightly self-effacing, I'm probably a good example of a body type that needs to find every single mechanical advantage I can between my feet to throw far since I can't get the Dickerson-style speed boost. There may be some tradeoffs there I can acknowledge. I do wonder what would happen if players like him made a little adjustment.
First of all i really appreciate the content you're creating. You have a different way of looking things and explaining it also. Should the stance on your standstills or especially distance shots be wider than people tend to use? If you watch Kristian Kuoksa or Rasmus Saukkoriipi throws they stay really low and use long last step before shifting weight to plant leg. Kristian and Rasmus actually use kinda same stance that i teach basketball players to use when they practice how to be "shifty". Weight is in the ball of your feet and inside. During basketball plays knees go actually inside of the ankles that way it's easier to create pressure and shift weight when you do "body fakes". What you think about this?
Totally! Watch my shin angles in the very first throw at the beginning. I'm continuing to improve, but this is when I was first getting parts of this to work in standstills. Keep in mind that it's not just the interior pressure of the feet or just the balls of the feet- it's the flow back and forth like Seabas22 talks about in his Figure 8 video. It think it's trickier to learn than it seems for most people, myself included.
I actually have started practicing standstills and x-steps from lower stances like Kuoksa or Saukkoriipi and switch to taller like Gurthie or Feldberg to improve how my legs transfer weight and rock me.
The thing you need to get used to looking for is what Kuoksa has in common with the more vertical guys like Gurthie - it's just a difference in the dynamic stance and force direction. Notice that Kuoksa is still using a very long flattened pendulum or wave to power his throw, it's just much less obvious at first:
i.imgur.com/3cnkdHB.png
If I want to throw a distance standstill, especially when pushing my mechanics, I find it easier to practice it with an aggressive vertical pump (think Catrina Allen) from a higher stance that maximizes the force in that direction. If you want to throw a Kuoksa-like standstill, you really need to get very good drift and rock and leverage ahead of the rear leg. I still personally find it easier to move more like a Gurthie or seabas22 with my body type, but when I talk to the more horizontal guys it's about trying to get the same mechanics along that direction. Anecdotally, I do want to mention that I see a lot of people struggle trying to start horizontal because they haven't figured out how to maximize the drift over the drive leg with gravity yet. Remember that even Simon started out extremely vertical too and was freaking crushing, probably toning it down for consistency over time:
czcams.com/video/TG8b7sHVZc0/video.html
I'm going to say more about this soon because I'm learning a lot of subtle but surprising things this month that are really helping. Almost every single non-pro player I look at has serious trouble with this.
@@AceItDiscGolf During this season i've worked on Kuoksa "style" weight shift into brace with that one step style. There's been couple days when i've nailed it. On those days throws feel like i've done nothing and discs still go as far as with a full run up on bad days.
Haven't really tested different ways on coming into the brace, Kuoksa or Gurthie/Gibson style. It would be kinda logical to use more vertical way of force production if you don't have heavy sports background and/or lot's of strength&power. Definetly need to test this out! Thanks for the tip.
I know that there's not a one right way of throwing discs...it's actually the same with basketball. Even though good forms have almost the same things in common. In basketball catch - lift - follow through. In disc golf through if you've got good timing, brace and follow through usually results are pretty good. 😆
Lately the most important thing on getting into my brace have been keeping lead hip high during x-step. Haven't actually tested this out on standstills, yet.
Really looking forward on your upcoming videos. Especially if you can "crack the mystery" key words how to product force through ground depending vertical/horizontal way.
And again... You addressing the issues I have at the moment.
Hoprfully I am able to geht this alle together in one chain. Somewhere in the future.
Thank you again for your work
Very nice! Condensed but still very thorough! Not easy to do with these topics. I also appreciate your ability to know what questions may be asked and answering them as you go. I’m very much looking forward to the next video as well. Thanks!
I'm just starting to notice a rock back and forward in my throws this last week. Going to give this a try and see if I can exaggerate it more and get it feeling more natural.
I've watched all your videos and appreciate your research into the biomechanics and your teaching style. Your selfless demonstration of even the smallest necessary motions, and your physical display of how they "suddenly" combine into a throw are invaluable to me. I'm 63, so I'm not looking for 500'. I'm looking for another 10 years of 300'.
300' can get a lot done out there! I'm inspired by people like you. My goal is to maximize what I can get as safely as possible. I want to be playing for a long time!
Catching up on your vids. Sooo good
Nice, thanks for dropping in. I am always lurking you
@@AceItDiscGolf The cheat is short form for the rock for sure. I had to use it with students that literally could not get into the positions with the rock walkup.
@@OverthrowDiscGolf what do you like to recommend for the rear/drive leg balance and transition?
@@AceItDiscGolf I mostly talk through it but the speed skater analogy comes up a bit and I’ve been using a loopghost thing with the squat bar. I don’t have a single way I talk through it or prefer at the moment.
When throw after watching your videos, I often end up spinning around on my heel like a top. If I try to brace more (skate), I feel like i'm going to spin on my knee. What am I doing wrong, am I not effectively bracing? Coming to forward...? SO lost!
Usually issues like that mean that you're not truly shifting laterally like a sidestep, but rotating somewhere in a joint incorrectly in the sequence. It's impossible to know exactly the source without a form review. The right leg action is very much like doing a "skater" or side shuffle step - striding truly laterally. I can personally attest that another problem is that other things can go wrong in your posture or sequence that also screw up this lateral stride 😞
The seabas22 Kick the Can or Ball video might be helpful!
@@AceItDiscGolf Thanks, I'll check out those videos (and yours again) and tread carefully before I blow out my knee!
I'll video myself next chance I get. In the meantime I now suspect that I'm shifting my weight onto my plant foot (crushing down on the can) and then after I'm spinning around (hips) on my heel to throw. If I understand the correct motion, I'm supposed to use the energy from lateral motion to twist my hips, whereas I'm kinda stopping one motion to do the other right now.
Q- if I brace correctly (skate), should I feel like after I throw I'm almost going to fall back towards my pull? Just like if I"m skating without throwing? I don't see that when professionals throw, but I'm also not throwing that hard or precisely. Just trying to get bearing on how that energy from bracing moves up my leg etc.
My takeaway from this video: twerk it, don’t torque it
😂 "Drop it like it's hot" also comes to mind
First time ive seen anyone mention shifting your butt backwards, going to have to try this out in my round later today. Seems like something that might have been a missing mental connection.
Seabas22 talks about it a lot, his buttwipe video helps describe the same concept. The action is surprisingly hard to master for a lot of people. Also known as the Hogan Power Move. I found the way Shawn Clement talks about it in ball golf to be the most intuitive and seabas22's the best at working on the posture. I never mindlessly advise this stuff - I always test it and look at sources myself and debate about it with folks.
Most people with big platforms don't talk about this much, if at all. There are athletic people who can throw pretty far with big runups that do not use it. They would throw even further with less effort if they mastered this.
Guess I never connected the butt wipe with posture change, I think your explanation was clear enough to make it understandable. Thanks for the great videos, keep em comin.
@@ScouterReport Great - yes, I think I might say setting up in the right posture and moving with pogo legs helps you get the right buttwipe. It may require additional work finding the ideal one (I still work on it here and there when I change stuff and there's still some inconsistency in my own form).
#308 here again. Thanks for sharing your learning.
I have seen a variety of styles be successful, so I wonder how body differences influence styles.
1. As for back leg counterbalancing, I think it works with very flexible hips. The counterbalance action does not impede the front hip from accelerating through the hit points. While tight hips cant go in opposite directions without the back hip holding the front hip back, thus losing power. Your thoughts?
2. I watch FPO, and the thinner players spin the the back then front hip, so fast you cant see it clearly. It looks deliberate, and it looks like the source of their power.
However, there are a few women with big butts and plenty of upper body weight. They have big reach-backs, lead with their butts, and dont emphasize front hip rotation, but depend on hard braces. So, could it be, if you are light weight on top, the body swing method is less effective? Better is to use core, legs and hips to maximize rotational force when thin? Your thoughts?
FYI, when I was young and a top distance thrower, i was all legs. I used a 360 and very springy legs. I sprung up as well as forward going into the throwing motion. I jammed my front leg into the ground hard, wearing soccer cleats. I put my full body weight in the air and then full brakes on landing to tranfer power into the disc. Then i finished looking like James Conrad does today, spinning out, bent over. It worked, but crazy athletic, unique style. Not realistic at age 67. I mention this to demonstrate that I get the idea of maximum forward force and a bounce. I wonder if your approach works best for huskier body types with flexible hips while the hip-spin approach works best for thin bodies with tighter hips...
So maybe what others suggest on other channels isn't misinformation, but rather information that applies to a certain body type?
Welcome!
I am careful to say "conflicting" information because in the end I don't think there's any one authority on the issues. I usually aim to share what is known from elite sports performance in other swings and how it works in top throwers. All top MPO players at the peak end of distance use some version of a shift from behind and counterbalance, but there is variability in their throwing axes and other details.
1. I do think flexibility always helps and maybe especially in the hips and shoulders. Even though I'm only in my thirties it took a long time to limber my lower body up back to where it was in my 20s. It was hard, slow progress over time. Some people may need to adapt or limit certain mechanics depending on their circumstances, but limbering up is always good if possible.
2. FPO players often lack at least part of the figure 8 mechanics and shift from behind. I wish we could run a controlled experiment training different mechanics and look at the effects 2 years later. People like Paige Pierce show what can happen with those mechanics and good athleticism and overall form at a short stature. Ella Hansen beat Paige at the long drive this year by a bit even though she has less of a complete tilted spiral and coil in her form. She's taller, longer levered, and potentially stronger and more athletic than Paige (though that's hard to quantify from behind a screen!) So I think we still have a lot to learn about peak potential in FPO, but a lot of the spin action in the lower body (unlike Pierce's) seems likely to impede distance, rather than be the source of it, if the backhand form is ideally more like other swings. I am curious though if they in general have to use their mass in somewhat different ways for peak force, just pointing out PP as one exemplar. Of course, these mechanics all operate in the context of the whole system, and I still experiment with things too!
On body type and jamming- every form change I've made has reduced jamming or abrupt effort in my body and reduced overall effort and/or increased distance. I actually use the wear and tear on my body as the primary body before pushing for distance. You definitely don't want to do things that jam up those important hips!!!
On body type, it's hard to find a rule. I think the closest ones are that flexibility always helps, quickness and rhythm always helps. Tall and long levered people can get more out of horizontal force, and stocky people definitely benefit from more gravity. Arm slots are also a pretty big deal and I was surprised how much they mattered in my form. People with stronger legs can get power more crouched. Not all just my opinions there but from studying lots of form reviews.
I do think that my body type is going to give me the heavyweight boxer version of DG form. I'll end up with more hop, a lower arm slot, and definitely need to maximize the weight shift. I'll never run very fast so it's especially important to maximize those parts of my form. The fact that there's some variability is definitely meaningful, though it is also meaningful from a safe power perspective to notice what shows up in top throwers. I really do wish we had more legitimate science in DG because I mostly have to rely on observation, my coach, testing it myself, and crosswise comparisons to other swing sports.
Always happy to speculate about any players in particular or hear more from you in any case!
One other thought lol.
I really, really think people underestimate how far they can learn to throw on one leg. If you can pull off a one handed golf swing, you can get the basics of a powerful one leg throw with some work.
@@AceItDiscGolf This is absolutely true. Each time I make a form change, I throw from a standstill for 2 to 5 weeks. I'm amazed how little distance is lost. A standstill is mostly one leg, since the push off of the back leg is weak.
@@AceItDiscGolf Many good points. Easily agree with your POV.
As for the counterbalance leg, when you do it without the disc, it does look like a skater, when you throw into the net, the back leg swings around on the finish. This seems to match most pros; the off arm rotates to the front at the finish. Are both these versions of a counterbalanced back leg, in your opinion? What would not be a counterbalance? What does that look like?
@@michaelcushman Good eye: the counterbalance describes the action of the rear leg swinging back and under the body, and can be more or less extreme or straight or bent-legged depending on the player and throw style. I'll try to distinguish a complete counterbalance, partial counterbalance & partial coil, and no counterbalance with examples here.
In the skater or swim-skater, notice I'd be more throwing in an extreme hyzer. If I went faster and release a disc, the follow through would pull & spiral me back up and more away from the target.
When I throw in that little sway segment after that, I'm throwing on less hyzer and low speed. In swing theory, the follow through of that off arm will tend to be 90 degrees-ish to the line in an ideal swing, representing the main line of force heading on the line, and the remaining force diffusing on an orthogonal line (right hand angle relative to the line). Sorry if that's a bit technical.
Some players coil a bit less and don't counterbalance as extremely. Those players also tend to use more of a runup to get their force. Chris Dickerson is one example - he still does have a counterbalance, but it is less than e.g. Simon or Gibson and he is venting more of the leftover force forward after his distance drives. That goes back to your body type comment maybe - Dickerson is small but very quick, so maybe he can pull that move and there's a tradeoff. I'm curious about that. Or maybe if he got into a rock and plant with more counterbalance he'd get some more power.
Coach T at Slingshot also generates a lot of his distance from his runup but does not appear to use a rear-leg counterbalance and swings with his shoulder somewhat open over his brace. Obviously with his speed and athleticism he still generates good distance. Christine Jennings here in the Overthrow montage also does not have a counterbalance:
czcams.com/video/dYQ0OlKyT00/video.html&ab_channel=OverthrowDiscGolf
To be slightly self-effacing, I'm probably a good example of a body type that needs to find every single mechanical advantage I can between my feet to throw far since I can't get the Dickerson-style speed boost. There may be some tradeoffs there I can acknowledge. I do wonder what would happen if players like him made a little adjustment.