Love the video quality and good tips! Very Well done. Couple points i want to add: 1. Before calling off-belay I would call slack first. that way you weight test your tethering to the anchor, but you're still on-belay in case something fails. 2. Before untying I like to pull a big section of rope through the quickdraws and clove hitch it to my belay loop with a locker. Then untie figure 8 and run the free strand beyond the clove hitch through the rap rings and tie the stopper knot. That way a.) I have more gear for it to past through and reduce the chance of dropping the rope and b.) if the anchors failed for some reason I'm still somewhat secured with a clove hitch on my belay loop should I have to fall on protection below me. Then I untie the clove hitch, secure the end with the stopper knot to myself and remove quickdraws. 3. Weight test each component before undoing the tethers. test the backup first and the then belay device. Also helps to have a firemans belay at the bottom too if possible.
Roddy's reply: Hi Peter, These are great techniques that add extra safety to your systems! I would not always suggest taking so many extra steps, as for example some anchors are simply not going to fail (e.g. two brand-new half-inch bolts). Still, it's great to know so many ways to add more redundancy to your safety systems! Best, Roddy
great video series so far! been watching the full playlist. i always put on my third hand first . that way i dont forget it as well it makes it easy to pull some slack for the belay device. also been using a short extension to keep the system spread apart and manage the rappel nice and smoothly.
The non-extended rappel and third hand on the leg loop is extremely outdated and faulty. Don’t do that. Extend your rap device and clip your third hand into your belay loop.
Roddy's reply: Khaotica, It's true, we showed a method that is not fashionable these days. In my guiding I generally teach my students to extend their rappel devices and run their third hands off the belay loop. This has some advantages, including ease of switching to rope ascension if using a guide plate. Although extending the rappel is more commonly taught these days, the old way is not 'faulty' and I still prefer it in most situations. It's slightly quicker, requires less equipment, and handles better (in my opinion). 'Extremely outdated' is also an overstatement-when I was learning to climb in Yosemite in the early 2000s, hardly anyone backed up their rappels at all. Many of those folks still don't... after all, you can just wrap the rope a few times around your leg if you need to stop and deal with something mid-rappel! Ah, those crazy old-timers... amazing any of us are still alive ;) Beware the dogmatism of the young climber with some formal training but little real-world experience-'there is only one right way!' You'll find that the more you travel and climb, the more right ways you'll see :) Best, Roddy
I used to clip the third hand to my leg loop. I switched to the extended rappel/belay loop third hand after it was recommended by veteran climbing partners. If the rappel device fails, however unlikely, I want my third hand attached to a sewn hard point rated for more than full body weight. Misty mountain makes a harness with a sewn point on the leg that makes this whole conversation redundant!
Don't forget to weight and test your personal anchor before going off belay and your rappel setup before taking yourself off your personal anchor. Also, tying a stopper knot on one end of the rope is pretty useless without tying it on the other end as well, so either do both or neither. Stopper knots are usually unnecessary on single pitches when you have someone on the ground that can tell you your rope has reached the ground. They can also do a fireman belay for you which would obviate the friction hitch.
Using a double length sling doubled up and girth hitched nto the tie in points on the harness leaves you with two loops to clip into either anchor. Would this work? I havent seen it elsewhere to be able to confirm.
Here is Roddy's reply: I don’t see why not, although I haven’t used the method you suggest. In theory if one point failed, the other loop could slip… but in practice I don’t believe it would. I do carry a double-length sling, and I sometimes use it as a quick tether to two bolts, such as on multiple-rappel descents. I do this by girth-hitching the sling to my tie-in points, tying a figure-8 knot about halfway up, and clipping a quickdraw below the figure-8. The end of the sling goes to one bolt, and the quickdraw to the other. But more often I just use two shoulder slings-one to each bolt, and both clipped to my belay loop.
I've used two single length slings girth hitched to tie-in points as a personal tether and it works well, but I much prefer systems where you can adjust the length of the tether. Sometimes a single shoulder-length sling with the girth hitch (or a halved double-length) is too short to sit comfortably at the anchor. My recommendation is to look at things like pre-made tethers like the chain reactor, or DIY solutions like the Purcell prussik.
Standard practice would be to use an extended belay and attach the third hand to the belay loop. If you do end up weighting the friction knot it will pull a leg up and turn you upside down, also a leg loop is not designed to hold your weight and possibly the weight of your rope and considerable gear.
Love the video quality and good tips! Very Well done. Couple points i want to add:
1. Before calling off-belay I would call slack first. that way you weight test your tethering to the anchor, but you're still on-belay in case something fails.
2. Before untying I like to pull a big section of rope through the quickdraws and clove hitch it to my belay loop with a locker. Then untie figure 8 and run the free strand beyond the clove hitch through the rap rings and tie the stopper knot. That way a.) I have more gear for it to past through and reduce the chance of dropping the rope and b.) if the anchors failed for some reason I'm still somewhat secured with a clove hitch on my belay loop should I have to fall on protection below me.
Then I untie the clove hitch, secure the end with the stopper knot to myself and remove quickdraws.
3. Weight test each component before undoing the tethers. test the backup first and the then belay device. Also helps to have a firemans belay at the bottom too if possible.
Roddy's reply:
Hi Peter,
These are great techniques that add extra safety to your systems! I would not always suggest taking so many extra steps, as for example some anchors are simply not going to fail (e.g. two brand-new half-inch bolts). Still, it's great to know so many ways to add more redundancy to your safety systems!
Best,
Roddy
great video series so far! been watching the full playlist.
i always put on my third hand first . that way i dont forget it as well it makes it easy to pull some slack for the belay device.
also been using a short extension to keep the system spread apart and manage the rappel nice and smoothly.
Thank you for the video
Thanks for the video, very useful
Good Job 👍🏽 Clear as day...
The non-extended rappel and third hand on the leg loop is extremely outdated and faulty. Don’t do that. Extend your rap device and clip your third hand into your belay loop.
Roddy's reply:
Khaotica,
It's true, we showed a method that is not fashionable these days. In my guiding I generally teach my students to extend their rappel devices and run their third hands off the belay loop. This has some advantages, including ease of switching to rope ascension if using a guide plate.
Although extending the rappel is more commonly taught these days, the old way is not 'faulty' and I still prefer it in most situations. It's slightly quicker, requires less equipment, and handles better (in my opinion). 'Extremely outdated' is also an overstatement-when I was learning to climb in Yosemite in the early 2000s, hardly anyone backed up their rappels at all. Many of those folks still don't... after all, you can just wrap the rope a few times around your leg if you need to stop and deal with something mid-rappel! Ah, those crazy old-timers... amazing any of us are still alive ;)
Beware the dogmatism of the young climber with some formal training but little real-world experience-'there is only one right way!'
You'll find that the more you travel and climb, the more right ways you'll see :)
Best,
Roddy
How to extend the rappel: czcams.com/video/5WM_xL0N0G0/video.html
@@videoracles he just needs a doob or two
I am of the impression that as long as it is safe, it doesn’t matter how one does it…..but DON’T FORGET THE STOPPER KNOTS.
I used to clip the third hand to my leg loop. I switched to the extended rappel/belay loop third hand after it was recommended by veteran climbing partners. If the rappel device fails, however unlikely, I want my third hand attached to a sewn hard point rated for more than full body weight. Misty mountain makes a harness with a sewn point on the leg that makes this whole conversation redundant!
Don't forget to weight and test your personal anchor before going off belay and your rappel setup before taking yourself off your personal anchor. Also, tying a stopper knot on one end of the rope is pretty useless without tying it on the other end as well, so either do both or neither. Stopper knots are usually unnecessary on single pitches when you have someone on the ground that can tell you your rope has reached the ground. They can also do a fireman belay for you which would obviate the friction hitch.
Using a double length sling doubled up and girth hitched nto the tie in points on the harness leaves you with two loops to clip into either anchor. Would this work? I havent seen it elsewhere to be able to confirm.
Here is Roddy's reply:
I don’t see why not, although I haven’t used the method you suggest. In theory if one point failed, the other loop could slip… but in practice I don’t believe it would. I do carry a double-length sling, and I sometimes use it as a quick tether to two bolts, such as on multiple-rappel descents. I do this by girth-hitching the sling to my tie-in points, tying a figure-8 knot about halfway up, and clipping a quickdraw below the figure-8. The end of the sling goes to one bolt, and the quickdraw to the other. But more often I just use two shoulder slings-one to each bolt, and both clipped to my belay loop.
I've used two single length slings girth hitched to tie-in points as a personal tether and it works well, but I much prefer systems where you can adjust the length of the tether. Sometimes a single shoulder-length sling with the girth hitch (or a halved double-length) is too short to sit comfortably at the anchor. My recommendation is to look at things like pre-made tethers like the chain reactor, or DIY solutions like the Purcell prussik.
Standard practice would be to use an extended belay and attach the third hand to the belay loop. If you do end up weighting the friction knot it will pull a leg up and turn you upside down, also a leg loop is not designed to hold your weight and possibly the weight of your rope and considerable gear.