Judicial Commity, Conversation with my Jehovah’s Witness Elders 3
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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2024
- 00:00 Opening prayer
2:16 am I an apostate?
11:00 disfellowshipping is not biblical
18:58 child @buse cases
32:57 What proof is there that the organization was chosen by God?
39:18 am I openly talking about my disagreements?
40:37 child baptism
46:00 why I believe the organization shuns
47:18 it’s my fault for questioning
51:10 what is the good news?
53:26 freedom of belief/I don’t want to be a JW anymore
55:46 It’s clear I’m an apostate
58:13 doesn’t the organization teach good things?
1:00:28 why did I start looking at apostate material?
1:02:58 do I believe the Bible is from God?
1:05:55 what is my hope for the future without god?
1:10:12 have I joined another religion?
1:10:48 am I openly promoting my ideas?
1:12:00 it’s dangerous to question too much.
1:17:05 leaving the organization isn’t leaving God
1:19:02 I am dismissed/They decide to disfellowship me
1:26:35 i’m invited back in and told I am disfellowshipped
1:33:51 they hope I will come back
1:34:43 they are just doing their job as elders/are elders appointed by Holy Spirit?
1:36:40 Jesus was an apostate to the pharisees
1:40:48 goodbye/disfellowshipping is blackmail
“I was always told to question it... UNTIL I DID”💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
Those damned Boereans always get in the way when they say to research the writings to see if it’s true or false. JW free and proud of it!
All different churches including exjws are Jesus's followers according to the Bible???????
@@superdave1263 All different churches including exjws are Jesus's followers according to the Bible????????
Got to keep the cult free of smart people.
They’re terrified of their followers finding out the truth about their teachings aren’t they!
Yes they are ..
About child baptism, Anthony Morris absolutely said, "unless you're a toddler your parents can't get you through Armageddon. Anthony Morris also also encouraged parents to not let their 16 year old a get a driver's license until they get baptized... His reasoning is you're old enough to drive a car but you're not ready to get baptized... Coercing
personified ‼️
You’re not referring to Tony Morris, the alcoholic, are you?
All different churches including exjws are Jesus's followers according to the Bible???????
@@superdave1263 All different churches including exjws are Jesus's followers according to the Bible????????
I thought the WT says that they take examples from the bible, and yet Jesus was baptized in his 30's. So why do they ignore that example? Just curious as to the WT reasoning.
I was waking up from my JW indoctrination about the time you published this video. These kinds of videos really helped me see the issues with JW'S false doctrines and other issues.
I’m happy to hear that
All different churches including exjws are Jesus's followers according to the Bible???????????
@@jwhistorymadeeasy3998 All different churches including exjws are Jesus's followers according to the Bible?????????
This is honestly sickening those elders are just deluded.
Wow. I’ve just found this channel and really enjoyed listening to this JC. I think u handled yourself so well. Everything u said is what all us ex JWs think and and say too.
Thank u for sharing this, I hope many more listen to it and that it helps others to wake up to this cult
Nicely done! I wish you the best ❣️
Omg I’m only 13 min in and I have second hand anxiety. These stupid meetings are so stressful but you are doing so good at speaking your truth. Those elders know you’re making sense. I can tell by the long deep inhales. During mine, I just cried the entire time lol.
Me to
@@mrsingsing5934 and Krissy, I'm so sorry to hear that you cried. Not that I think anything is wrong with crying. It just makes me so upset that in situations such as a judicial committee of 3 elders, elders can spew out such guilt redden accusations while slammed one with shame.
I know that there are some very good hearted elders within congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses, but then there are ones that are or have become dominant ones who abused their positions of spiritual power and authority in very damaging ways to one's psyche during meetings such as these. They will blame shift by saying things that are intrusive with statements that are in fact judging the heart with negative implications that the one they're sitting with can barely answer them because they are in such shock that they're actually being viewed by these elders in this way. It just does not compute with how we've been told that they are just there to help and will not judge because nobody can read the heart.
I know these meetings can be very brutal but today they have no jurisdiction over you.
Know that is these are simply ordinary men that have no business being in any one of your business.
All different churches including exjws are Jesus's followers according to the Bible?????????
Excellent points from your heart
Joseph, Thank you for putting this on here. I listened to your shunned podcast as well, and I really appreciate your direct approach and expression of your feelings. I too am disfellowshipped, not by your congregation, but that is where I grew up, and I know the elders you were talking to better than the ones who disfellowshipped me. So, I just want to say thank you for posting this, and you are very good at speaking your mind in a way that is not confrontational. I could learn a lot from you on that subject!
Bob T Thank You, idk if you and I ever had any interactions or if you left before my time in that hall
It’s amazing whenever they do something wrong it’s because they are “ imperfect “ ! Every other person is a sinner or “worldly “
Wow!! You really made very good points and remained calm! This is the best judicial audio I've ever heard!! BRAVO!!!!👏👏👏👏
These guys are fools. You handled yourself excellently. These clowns did not listen to what you said. They have never done there research. You have done your research. These guys were the same as the scribes and the pharisees of Jesus day.
Great point about Judicial Meetings being in front of the congregation/stage. My dad is an elder ...and he used the privacy line. I said it should be optional if they want it private or on stage infront of the Congregation!
You did such a good job dude, hugs man, I’m sure that was so hard for you..
Good research and bible knowledge mate well done and you kept it respectful on top of all that
What a wonderful example of how to calmly and reasonably deal with the unreasonable
Your reasoning abilities just blow me away! Excellent, just awesome!
These people want to piss on you tell you it rain and want you believe it whole heatedly
Hi very interesting. You gave a great account. True and accurate. However they won't listen thanks for sharing. Regards from England
Hi, I want to say you were brilliant, I am so proud of you that I am awestruck. Thank you brother for your integrity!
So very brave and honest and well informed . I pray you go on in The Lord Yeshuah.
I listened to all your conversations with the elders. And you even recorded a pray on your own J C. That was awesome! Thanks body..
Loved the scriptures this young man brought out what a kind young man you dont have to write a letter if you don't want to many I have listened to on you tube you can see they still have there faith there not apostates this person is saying what the watchtower is really like thankyou to utube for all those put there true feelings on line
You did a great job Joey, i just finished listening to it all. You did great. I will keep listening to the other audios, thank you for putting them up. More power, sending love and support all the way from China
ExJw Philippines Thank you
All different churches including exjws are Jesus's followers according to the Bible?????????
Walking into one of these meetings is just so 'dead man walking'.... The elders are so biased.. so mindset trained it makes no difference to what the attendee says... They will have already made their decision and the meeting is a mere formality. I think he makes his best shot at 54secs.....
I absolutely love this! You left them speechless! You reasoned with them perfectly, but unfortunately, you threw " pearls before swine"! Well done though🎉🎈🎊🎉💯
Hi Joseph- just stumbled on your shunned interview- really enjoyed listening. 👍🏻 thanks for sharing your judicial too. I too am similar age to you and woke up recently- appreciate you sharing your story!
I knew I recognized your voice. I also follow you on TikTok. You explained yourself so well and detailed. Hopefully one of the mob elders will wake up
The same child that can choose candies for lunch. Shaking my head with those knock heads
Protecting the Congregation!!! There are so many issues facing the organization that the Congregations worldwide are fully aware of what's going within the Leadership and doctrinal issues. Protecting the Congregation. Everything is now in the open, thx to the internet.
They even acknowledge that they choose to ignore the evidence. They are as guilty as the org.
What huge respect and gratitude l feel for you.l wish all JWs could listen to this l dont think there would be many left if they had a reasoning heart You were articulate intelligent and respectful and not intimidated by these obstinate elders despite being under so much pressure I hope you didn't lose your family and friends as a consequence of your good conscience and integrity.
🎉
What puzzles me is why the elders never actually want to dig in deep to the hard questions with someone who differs from them in their thinking.
If we both agree to honesty follow where the evidence leads, then there shouldn't be ANY hesitation to start and not stop conversating until an agreement has been reached!
Matthew 18 ...If you catch your brother sinning...So what's the sin you've committed❓ You're very well spoken... I'm sorry you've had to endure this Kangaroo Court.
Right near the end now, and I actually LOVE all these points you gave these elders! So brave! The Samaritan example...then the Apostate talk, how brave by saying that. The thing that REALLY gets me, is THEY are allowed to believe what THEY want, their dignity intact, but YOU aren’t, ME EITHER, WE GET PUNISHED FOR NOT CONFORMING TO THEIR BELIEFS, BECAUSE THEY SUPPOSEDLY HAVE GOD’s APPROVAL. I try to explain that to my family that’s in, since not out officially yet. My family cannot understand my reasoning, or pretends not to, anyway. I personally feel too scared to even answer my own door for fear Elders show up, so I suppose I’ll need to write a letter or something. I did tell one elder that I was having doubts, told a few reasons, which he had no idea about the ARC issues, and he has a young son! He is a relatively new elder. The only thing he finally could say, was “Where else will you go?” And that it’s “The best place to be” and all I could think of, is that scripture about how “it would be better have a mill stone tied around someone’s neck, thrown into the sea” (if you hurt a child) or something...you know? I mean, if you cannot protect the smallest of “your sheep” (elders) then what good are you?! So, no, not the best place to be, or be connected to! I wont put one CENT into paying an organization which makes a P ed o paradise or haven for them! Anyway, I’m sorry going on and on with your videos tonight, but this stuff, all you told these guys too...really got to me too. Okay, have to add this...one of my times fading, well, was still indoctrinated, but still I went to college, AND made it to UCD into the Archeology Dept...that was my focus...Archeological Studies, so those dates are very wrong! I learned about the Sumerians there too. I just re purchased my micro cassette player and am listening to my old class recordings! So cool to hear them now that I get a good nights sleep! Back then...like 4 hrs at night it was getting soooo stressful! But I loved it! But my mother kept guilting me for going to school, “putting Jehovah last” and i let her get to me! I ended up not taking my last exam, so flunked the class, so had to leave school all because mentally i was a POMI, had not researched, so my guilt made me feel bad, evil, or unworthy, or selfish. And BELIEVE ME, MY LIFE IS REAPING THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT, SOOOO REGRETTING NOT FINDING OUT TTATT! So ANY OF YOU OUT THERE, WHO MENTALLY IS INSIDE, BUT THINKING ABOUT GOING TO SCHOOL, PLEASE DO YOUR RESEARCH FIRST, THEN YOU WILL BE ABLE TO FOCUS WITH YOUR WHOLE MIND, NO GUILT! All the time I was a POMI, I had nightmares, anxiety, shame, and could NOT do things whole heartily. Like living half awake or almost being two people because of the inner AMBIVALENCE OR CONFUSION. NOW, unfortunately, at 57 I know I made the right decision leaving 100% sure! It just sucks bc I was soooo lucky, and not now so much financially...So Plllease you guys...DO YOUR RESEARCH! If inside something feels wrong? That usually means SOMETHING IS WRONG...OK Getting late good night! I hope these men (elders) wake up, and haven’t done anything that Watchtower will throw them under the bus in these child abuse cases! They seem to be setting the elders up as Scape Goats in court! Hope these guys wake up before that can happen...
Three elders trying to stand on very shaky ground!!🥴
Good company men!
Acts 17:11 tells us that the Berean’s checked the scriptures daily to see if what Paul was saying is true or not, yet the JW organization doesn’t want us to question anything about the society!
Hypocrisy!
Elders pray the internet is just a fad
Im 37 min in and every time one of these elders says something stupid I’m screaming at my phone! I can’t believe that guy said “well maybe we don’t want to look into these things”
Why wouldn’t you?! Doesn’t truth matter??
Like when he stated he doesn't believe Australia is there not sure if it was sarcasm
I left in my mid thirties, im now 43 , you handled this amazingly well, its so frustrating to listen to how uninformed they are about everything, yet you are so conscientious and awake, i get angry when they say we are here to help , when clearly they are just puppets, every elder is the same. Well done buddy , this was awe-inspiring.
Damn these elders should work for a gas company because they were gaslighting the hell outta you!
Whenever they have a question that they cannot answer they divert by asking dumb questions. Biblically they never answer anything.
It's good to see that you choose to be honest with yourself . It is sad that those men refuse to believe the truth and are unwilling to check things out . Shunning is not a loving provision from God . It is emotional abuse and mental abuse and it's evil
All different churches including exjws are Jesus's followers according to the Bible?????????
Yes it is
45:35 to the elders point that he's trying to make: if the child's desire is sincere & motivated by love for Jehovah then that child should be willing to submit to the direction if a minimum age were to be set for baptism. If Jesus, God's own son, knew his purpose at a young age (12 questioning the religious leaders in the temple) why did he wait until he was 30 to get baptized?
You are so brave!!!
Bravo
You were spot on about elders trying their hardest to cover up wrong doing when it comes to their children. The elders tried to blame their children drinking partying and fornicating on my older siblings because we was new to the religion. They actually even went as far as to having a talk geared towards my siblings without letting nor alarming my mom as to what was going on. My mother flipped out on those elders. Needless to say we ended up in a different congregation smh. It was an older congregation and the elders were more strict.
All of those elders kids are not JW’s anymore. Some of them at the time were ministerial serpents 😂. But anyway I’m happy I’m not involved with that religion anymore
All different churches including exjws are Jesus's followers according to the Bible????????
Thank you for the JC Meeting. Disfellowshipping is going to happen when you don't agree with the organization and the entire trouble could be saved by disassociation.
This one is amazing!
The sickening part is that.....soon as they ask you to step out the room......they throw the Bible to the side. Then whip out that hot mess rule book(Shepard the Fock) and decide!!! The Bible has nothing to do with ant of that mess!!
You know, you tell them the truth, they don’t want to hear (Apostate talk or whatever) scared to find out they have been wrong all along? Reminds me of people missing when they fell in love...like falling in love with being in love (because you feel so alive, everything seems beautiful and fun, life is good...even when later you realize you weren’t really compatible. But it feels so good at the time! One ex JW put it really well...She said: What? I DONT GET TO HAVE A DOLPHIN IN THE NEW ORDER?! I WANT MY DOLPHIN! These elders WANT IT TO BE TRUE SO BADLY...BUT WE KNOW THE INCONVENIENT TRUTH...
Joey, you were waay too kind to those self-rightous jerks. I think you should have laser focused on only 1 or 2 points and put them on blast by asking the hard questions regarding a topic like holy spirit directed governing body, inconsistencies in the Bible which proves it's not written by God etc. You let them off easy by saying "I think this but take it as you will." You were going to be DFed anyway so by putting them on blast with tough questions, you could at least get them to think. Anyway, welcome to the EXJW brotherhood!
I disagree, by going in too harsh without showing love and humility it would just make them completely switch off and put up a fence . Even though technically they are switched off and under mind control either way.
Those clowns are sooo low voiced and hesitant...because they knooooow exactly what you're saying and feeling are all legit and pure truth!!!
One guy said, "If there is a problem with the sheep, are you going to go talk to the sheep, or are you going to talk to the shepherd?" As a person who works with animals, you are darn right, Im going to go talk to the sheep! Its their issue & they will be the ones who are sick, hurt or showing symptoms. I would get it straight from the horses mouth. If I cant find the issue & fix it, I will consult a veterinarian, who is trained in vet medicine, not janatorial services! And by the way, the shepherd is the person who didnt see the issue & who didnt take care of it. He needs to take a good look at HIMSELF. How did he allow a secret rule book, pedo activity & false doctrine in his flock?
When confronted with facts the Elders acclaim that they didnt know. Either they're lying or they will never research their own religion. Puppets.
Joey, you expressed yourself very clearly, the elders passed over so much, they preferring to stay with the JW fallacies , especially the 1914 lie and the pedophilia. I was hoping that you would have been able to say that your future Hope was in Jesus Christ. All the best to you, you could be a terrific disciple for Christ.
I appreciated your interview on shunned and your my judicial committee hero! If I only knew what I know now and could explain my beliefs as well as you. It’s so telling that they have no rebuttal and aren’t interested in taking the time to explain how you could have it wrong... because you don’t. How could they possibly speak to what everyone’s experience has been that is in the ex jw community? And they want you to be not critical but they should have been as critical as the circuit overseer. Ugh the hypocrisy of it all. And my skin was especially crawling when the elder said it’s not that hard to leave watch R rated movies and sleep with a bunch of people or something to that affect. First of all no offense but sounds like that’s his secret fantasy... but in reality how many ex jws have that on the agenda and to do list. Give me a break and get in touch with reality. Anyway props to you ! And wishing you nothing but the best and living your best life
I know I replying to my own comment lol but also it seemed like one elder did most of the talking just found it interesting.
@@stephaniedavis1690 Exacly, and this guy(who is he btw?) have a very powerfull rethorich. So idk why he was nervous, because i could sure that he had this conversations many times somehow. By doing it on chats for example. It not seens that he was his first debate with JWs. IDK if in NA country you guys have debate courses on college. Here in brazil we dont.
Hurts listening to this
Who removed God's name and who were the ppl who conspired about 587, he never provides evidence. Yes, it's all about the the ORG and not God
:' Don't follow leaders and watch yer parking meters!!"- " Subterranean Homesick Blues", Bob Dylan.
I wish there was video
This guy stated great points to these guys.
All different churches including exjws are Jesus's followers according to the Bible???????
THOSE LOWLIFES NOOOO THAT EVERYTHING YOU'RE SAYING IS ALL FACTS!! BUT THE DELIBERATELY DEFLECT WITH OFF TOPIC QUESTIONS ETC.....
Have you ever wondered why God never shows himself ? Maybe it's because he simply doesn't exist except in people's imaginations. It is so sad brother that you have to be shunned for simply loving truth ,you are very brave and not alone. Love Justin porter ex jw
Its not a type of thinking your just bringing forth facts...this is the problem I have with religion It's like you can't talk about anything dealing with reality
Religion a snare and a racket
It sounds like the discussion you had with them about holding these Judicial Committees in secret got to them as they discussed it during their decision making. And so it should. These men are following orders from their leaders in New York and are responsible for his own family shunning him.
Although one Elder said he would never apologize for what he was doing that day, I hope he finds Godly love in his heart one day and recognizes the unbiblical actions.
Psalm 37, 12-15, trust in Jehovah.
The guy really lectured these ignorant guys.
I got df'd for refusing to stop associating with a df'd friend, the real reason was apostasy though. I brought my df'd friend to the judicial meeting and pretty much said the stuff you said, but at the end i asked for and for each elders contact info and told them if they tried to enforce my family to shun me I'd not sue the congratulation or Watchtower but each of them personally. Fortunately nobody shunned me except for one asshole uncle who was an elder. I appealed and got another meeting and the chairman was a long time family friend. He upheld it, then my grampa died a month later and he was at the Kingdom Hall funeral (which was sickening, he was a WW2 vet) and he approached me with a big smile and outstretched hand and introduced himself, i said "i know who you are" and i gripped his hand hard and I'll never forget the look on his face... This guy thought he was going to determine my everlasting future and he didn't even know who i was. The JW experience is really really weird.
Good job, Joey.
They HAVE to maintain the IMAGE....
All different churches including exjws are Jesus's followers according to the Bible??????????
Whenever they can’t answer a question they quickly divert by asking dumb questions or using stupid illustrations.
Wouldn't have even had a meeting with them until they wake up they won't see the points that been brought out
The bottom line is that these elders will only listen to what the writing department write!!!
This people can’t stop policing others, can they?
This is the one of the Best debate/conversation and judicial commity dealing that i ever heard. You did some little minor mistakes but, i guess large parts of you rethoric could be in the book about how dealing with Judicial Commity.
50:32 : I good move and short one is "but i have no issues about the person of Jesus Christ" or "Sorry, but be against PEd.... is not a Christ teaching" .
55:31 "correct if you say that" "i did". This was a mistake. You could tell "i told that would be nice if i hade a CHOICE to leave without...."
Some other points on the 607 thing.
1. Even if true (which it is not) it still doesn’t prove an invisible return of Jesus to select American only old men as a ‘channel’ for God (no scripture proves this)
2. Jesus commandments and message is clear - not to worry about the date of the end! So no mandate for a religion to predict with dates anyway.
3. The faithful slave is a parable about individual followers of Jesus commandments-not a prophecy of a particular religious denomination.
4. God draws his own individually by means of Holy Spirit. And any suggestion that he needs a particular denomination to do this is contrary and limits God - thus is man made doctrine.
5 Religion is a snare and a racket.
6. Gods voice came out of heavens saying “…..listen to him” regarding Jesus Christ-no other man.
7. The second coming of Christ will be witnessed and visible to all on earth.
I could go on and on and on but only want to point you to Jesus and all his words.
He is the way, the truth and the life. (Not any religious denomination and its additional doctrines)
Note when religions use singular proof texts instead of whole passages they are hiding you from true context and a personal discovery of God and his Christ.
1:00:15 "casting people out who refuse to teach what isn't true" exactly what i told them, i couldn't in good conscience support stuff that was absolute nonsense
Bible is not the oldest book in the world. One of the Elders said it was. The Vedas of ancient India are the oldest extant Religious literature in the world.
Maybe I’m just interpreting it wrong since I’ve never been a JW myself, and obviously I don’t know them or their stories, but these elders seem like genuinely nice guys who have been misled and indoctrinated. This actually made me strangely a little sad to listen to. This went more civilly and smoothly than I expected. Glad you got out and you were able to leave without too much drama(as far as I can tell).
You nailed it! that is exactly the situation, most of them are lovely people however it is a cult where they have been indoctrinated.
They are also victims at the end of the day.
Why pray if they already knew what they were going to do?
Oh and I beg the differ of Jesus (supposedly) returning as king in 1914, as I have the original book published in 1929 by judge Rutherford entitled, ‘Prophecy’, page 66 where it very clearly teach that Jesus returned as king in 1874!
LOL, Elders claimed you are promoting false teachings! LOL! Yeap as long as you remain a JW!
Do you parents still talk to you? Hope you are well
These brothers are sincere but they have to go along with the organization policy
It's funny they in the Dark; luke 12 :3
I may be ending up in a similar situation to you sir. Did you ever tell these guys you recorded them? I’m preparing for combat here.
No my state is a single party consent state meaning you are allowed to record any conversations you are in. Some states have different laws about needing to ask someone their consent before you start recording. That might be something to look into
They said it wasn’t a judicial committee
Jerusalem was destroyed in 586 B.C.
How many books have that organisation removed from the bible ? What gives them the right to do that ? They have done that !
Why did you even go to the Judicial Hearing??!!...
Shemp, Larry and Moe have no authority over you ( or anyone else, for that matter).
The elders read scriptures from the old testimate in regarding to judicial hearings. They quoted the mosiac law. I thought the mosiac law was done away with? Maybe I am not understanding. Also they proclaim their non-reporting is a law in some states. However the bible says the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one, right? So that non-reporting of rape is wicked, because it can and most likely will be repeated. So I do not understand this logic. They talk about confidentiality for rape but they can report it to the police or child protective services and it will remain a confidential matter until that person is charged.
Great job for being nervous
THEY KNOOOW EVERY SINGLE THING YOU'RE SAYING IS A GAZILLION PERCENT TRUTH!!
I’m From Minnesota and I know for a fact I know the main guy taking the lead in the conversation… wondering if you would be willing to share what congregation this happened in? I’ve been in circuit 7 and 3…
@@jwhistorymadeeasy3998 I knew it. I was just up there for a hall remodel. Just woke up a couple months ago. Those voices sounded so familiar. Thank you for the post and really enjoyed your Shunned interview!
Matthew 7 v 1 hmmm!
That opening prayer, these guys really think they're talking to God and going to get divine direction. Pathetic.