6.5 Creedmoor - H4350 vs IMR4350 - 143 ELD-X
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- Testing Hodgdon H4350 vs IMR 4350 with the 143gr Hornady ELD-X in 6.5 Creedmoor.
UPDATED 09/27/2018 - All links have been removed to comply with CZcams content policies.
www.patreon.com/reloading
Love it that you admit to being a hermit, same here. Perhaps being a hermit and obsessiveness over reloading are mutually inclusive. A couple of years ago I drilled some holes on the edge of the dining room table the other day for the new reloading press when the missus was away for a few days. When she got back and noticed the holes, she went absolutely berserk, had to go and hide. She still brings it up from time to time.
I love that the majority of your videos start out with you going through the basic loading process. watching you do the same process over and over really helps my memory. You learn by doing and it seems like I am doing this when i am watching. Keep up the amazing work.
With the two 6.5 creedmoors I've had with h4350 had there nodes at 42.4 and 42.5. I've pushed out to 43.5 before with no signs. They both loved the 143 eld-x and they perform great on deer.
My little scale started getting crazy on me. Thought it was going to just have to go in the trash. Turns out it was acting up from static. Wiped it down with a dryer sheet and now it’s good as new!!!
You're a machine JRB! All these good reloading videos you are pumping out, awesome job!
Chamber chiller is pretty cool. 22:45 watch it blow the smoke out the barrel as it’s inserted. Seems to work well. And if lower temps are maintained your barrel life could increase quite some percentage of good shots. Great video. Thanks for sharing the useful data.
You should make a JRB T-shirt with the quote on it "that's just good shootin brother"
41.5 with H4350 is my match load with 140 ELD'S, and it was one of the old recipes hornady put on their 140 a-max match loads a few years back. There will be another node between 42.5-43 grains if you care to run that hot, you'll gain about 60fps. One of the reasons many shooters run that high and higher is due to the original loads in hodgdon's load data that went considerable higher. RL-16 is another powder that is awesome in the creedmoor with 130-150 grain bullets.
Mine defiance with Bartlein barrel shoots so well off the 140 A-MAX match, it almost isn't worth reloading for.
That's everyone's match load! I will probably not be doing a lot of additional work with H4350 since it's hard to find and the loads are already so well known. I'll be pushing it much harder before this can is empty, though. I want to see if my primer cratering turns to piercing once the pressures get up over 60K, and H4350 is probably the "safest" way to do that since everyone and their brother has already shot it. Should be fun. RL16 is definitely in the plans...I just need to pick up a can. I've got AA4350, RL26, N160 and N550 in the plans as well. Should be fun.
@@JohnnysReloadingBench AA-4350 has always worked second best to H-4350. Having said that I do have a 300 Win Mag load that is my best load with AA-4350. It shoots under 3-inch groups at 300 yards every time. IMR 4350 can be accurate, but the velocities are so much lower than either of the other two.
I've always wondered why hodgdon/imr would muddy the waters with two different powders with the same name. Great comparison video. Keep up the good work!
Brett T. IMR used to be owned by DuPont .Those powders were around for a long time.Hodgdon bought them out and decided to keep the imr formulas for those shooters.
Just yesterday started using the Hornady Microjust Seating Stem, very good piece of gear. I actually had to wait about 3 months until it became available from Midway. Very pleased with the precision and ease of seating used on a 243 Win. Watching your videos prompted me to purchase and use the microjust, so thanks a bunch!
You would be happier to just have a real competition seating die like a Forster or a Redding competition die that supports the case in a vertical position before seating. Forsters are the creators of that style seating die. They are both good, but Forsters are more reasonably priced.
love your creedmoor videos. after watching I tried loading up 143 eldx with imr 4064 and imr 4895 both 35.5 grains of powder and the groups were smaller than imr 4350 totally impressed with creedmoor my axis 2 loves every load I try thanks for all you do on youtube!!!
Great shooting and great video JRB, best wishes on the sickness, get better soon.
Thanks Johnny, was looking forward to this video and kind of confirms what we found with our rig as far as IMR opening up at higher charges. Take care of that cold and be well...
I'm the one who reported a drifting issue with the little scale. Didn't realize there had been a reply until I watched this video, LOL. Responded in the other post, but a cut and paste here as well:
"JRB, I didn't think about the batteries, but I just installed some fresh ones. I'm still having the same problem, which is: once I've calibrated and zeroed (set tare) with the pan on the scale I will get anything from 0.0 to 0.2 once I remove the pan and replace it. What's also interesting is that my tare weight will vary with the pan removed (between 146.5 and -146.7 grains). I can also leave the empty pan on the scale and the reading will drift +/ .1gr just sitting there. I've tried it in several different rooms in the house, so I can't see it being a wind/draft issue."
I see that tuma benny and ktmracer358 ! are also reporting similar issues with theirs.
I'm watching your 6.5CM series with interest as I just dropped my TC Compass 6.5CM into a Boyd's stock. Developing a load when the temps warm a bit is a priority. Many thanks for your efforts.
Good stuff Johnny! Get some rest and feel better!
Love the videos. I’ve come back to H4350 with the 140 ELD-M and it shoots lights out on the higher end with a little better velocity touching 2700 FPS. Good stuff!
Yup, that seems to be the classic Creedmoor load that shoots well for everyone.
The shiny spot on the brass head is caused by a rough bolt surface when locking and unlocking it.
Cheers
I jumped on the Creedmoor bandwagon over three yrs ago, all of my friends said it would be a flash in the pan. And factory ammo was hard to come by. (No pun intended) I have loads of data on this cartridge in all types of bullets, powders, primers, and most importantly weather.
I currently am using a Christensen BA Tactical in 6.5 Creedmoor Harris Bi-pod, Vortex Razor HD 4.5-27.
The best load I have found for consistency in all weather and temps is the 147gr. ELD M with 42gr. of H4350 Federal 210 Primers either match or regular (made no difference) My SD are around 2.2-3. Hornady brass trimmed to 1.915. Forster press, Hornady full length dies adjusted to bump size. This is consistent just under .5 MOA. Velocity is 2805 at 50-105 degrees. 2997 at 28-50 degrees.
Consistent cold bore hits at 1500 yds and under. Anything over 1500 consistency drops dramatically best I can do is 3 out of ten at 1776 yds. Well beyond effective range, I do it just for the lols. Gets right down to after 1500yds grab a 7mm Rem Mag or 300 Win. Mag.
I currently have all data on IMR4350, Reloader 17, Reloader 16, H4350 Using bullets ranging from 129-147gr Berger, Nosler, Hornady, bullets.
Brass data is now under development. Love my results with Hornady Brass. With this warm of load good for only 4 reloads due to loose primer pockets. Currently trying SIg, Starline, Nosler brass. I have used Lapua and found the small rifle primer does not efficiently burn under 50 degrees and over 40.5 grains of powder. If any questions feel free to ask.
IMR 4350 is one of the worst powders due to temperature stabilization. Ten degrees will change velocity of up to 15fps especially once it drops below 80 degrees. SD opens up dramatically also.
Hope you get better soon been some real nasty stuff going around. I bought both of the scales will give you an update when I get home to try em out.
Great as usual, get some rest, heal yourself. Loads can wait.
Thanks for doing this. I've tried using a lead sled and my groups are always much larger than when I'm holding the rifle. Be interesting to shoot a load both ways for the heck of it. Between the sled and the chrono there could be some weird harmonics going on. Thanks again.
Watching Sunday, can confirm.
I sent my Howa 1500 off to get threaded for a compensator last March or so. The Gunsmith is amazing, but somehow didn’t get my number and I’ve been busy with grad school so it took me a long time to get back to him (it was ready in July). But I finally got it back. That’s a long way of saying I haven’t loaded for 6.5 Creedmoor in a very long time. I have Lapua small primer brass and I JUST got some Lapua Scenar 139 grain. All the Berger Target Hybrids that I was developing with before are of course not in stock anywhere, so I took a chance and got 1000 scenar while I could find them. I was lamenting not having any 4350 (either IMR or Hodgdon) and about to settle and load Varget (which some people have had decent luck with but it’s not ideal based on everything I’ve read). So it’s past midnight and I decided to double check my powder stock to see if I had anything better… and I found 8lbs of H4350. Thanks past version of me for forethought and having my back! 😊 and thanks to you for doing this video! I love the data.
Great video as usual. Feel better!!
Hate to hear it man, I've been sick as shit for two plus weeks now, so I feel ya. This month has sucked, I haven't been shooting once. Hell, I haven't been out of the house much in December (thankfully I work from home)
So, two years ago, you had covid!
I bought the Microjust thinger for a set of Hornady 223 dies. Great for the money!
I never take anyone that uses a "chamber cooler" seriously.. but the "we didn't blow our face off" comment made me subscribe
Thx, johnny, and get better soon!
HEY JOHNNY, you still alive.... been anticipating a new video from ya Brother. I
I know you have a busy schedule but Maaaaan I need my jrb video Fix ....
I've always used a tenth grain scale. I'm satisfied with sub 3/4 moa accuracy. I'm sure I could get more but I'm not sure it's worth the time. I completely understand those who do chase after the greatest accuracy and SD numbers they can get I just don't have OCD to that level....yet
Thanks for all your hard work. I'd much rather watch your videos on Sunday than watch football. LOL
Thank you for this. Answered some questions I had about reloading the 6.5 CM.
I have the small scale and it's been totally rock solid.
Feel better sir.
Thanks for the great Video! Get well soon brother!
Wow good video buddy. Wish you did more with the Hornady 140 BTHP Match. Maybe best powder to use with highest velocity, low SD, and best group.
This channel is obviously an acquired taste
Aren't most?
I recently bought a savage axis 2 6.5 CM. which i consider a budget gun for sur I'm shooting .32 inch groups at 100 yrds with 143 grain eldx and 43.2 grains of superformance in hornady brass . As well I'm smacking a 6 x 10 inch steel rectangle target at 600 yrds consistently it goes to show u don't need to buy a 2000 dollar gun and use high end components to group well
Thank you for the reminder concerning the Berger 135s. More expensive with that J-4 Jacket, yes. More accurate, yes! Hornady ELD-X good, yes. Getting the job done! REST!!
Both of my Compass 6.5 Creedmoor's shot 1/2" groups with 39 grains of IMR 4350
With which primer, bullet and case? I just got a Tikka T3s in 6.5 CRM
Why do I love hearing "idiot" from smaller you tube channels so much? It doesn't matter whether it's Johnny calling himself an idiot or "think like a cop" explaining "well, that's cuz you're an idiot", I find it funny every single time.
I packed in 44.0gr of H4350 behind a 129gr ELD Match. Slightly compressed at 2.800", but nothing crazy. Grouped a hair under an inch in my buddy's RPR. Definitely worth cranking up the heat a little bit on your loads.
Get well soon.
Time to repeat top 1/2 and reaching further while shifting the bullet out to .020" from the lands and retest.
On that H4350 I would love to see you use a long drop funnel, see if you can cram a little more in without compressing it. Just my 2 cents Johnny. I am very interested to see you pushing it a little farther. Maybe a long drop funnel would help IMR4350 as well?
Get well soon!
I finally got sub 1" 10 shot groups out of my 13o gr Nosler RDF bullets with Lapur brass, CCI 450 primers and 43.6 gr of Reloader 16. The overall length that worked in my Ruger Precision Rifle is 2.778.
nice cutaway, your vids are educational and comical. keep it up.
and hope you feel better real soon.
It seems that the groups are tightening on at a certain case fill. When you hit about max case fill on the H4350 the group was tight and same with the IMR 4350. Once you went to a compressed charge the groups opened up.
Lol I'm a hermit too.
For being sick, you're able to keep up the ol' JRB Blather,Blather,Blather. :)
Great video. Hope you get well soon.
Hello, this video is a great time passer, very informative hope more to come
Who doesn't love some good intimate contact!?!
Thanks for all of your information and techniques for accuracy in your loads! Cool!
The 6.5 Creedmoor is an excellent cartridge. But my question is why is is it that several people making videos about loading for accuracy. Use the 6.5 Creedmoor as though it is the standard by wich all other 6.5 cartridges are judged by. As far as accuracy goes. There is one 6.5 cartridge that has set several accuracy records. And that is the 6.5 X 47 Lapua. What accuracy records has the 6.5 Creedmoor set. I'm not saying that the Lapua should be the only one used. But the 6.5 Creedmoor has been grossly over promoted. I am not the only one who thinks that. There is a lot of great cartridges out there. Someone should do videos of other 6.5 cartridges. This is like looking at 20 year old reruns on TV.
Own that scale and it just keeps working.
My tiny waowaaaowaooaw scale started acting funky when the batteries started going dead. Swapped them out and it’s working great again
I have found 2 grains difference between these powders. Add 2 grains to H-4350 then these powders well be the same.and you will get the same results on the paper across the board . No pressure problems if you take care on the top ends
Damn good video! That gun shoots good! I use the 143 ELD-X bullets and love them. I use Hornady brass, H4350 41.5 gr. CCI primer, seated 2.843 in a tikka CTR 6.5. Shoots great.
Good shooting combo. Nice performance on both powders. Back before 2000, I said a lot of times that if I couldn't load it with IMR 4350, I didn't need it. H-4350 looks to be a touch better even.
So H4350 test first and then I4350 after barrels was dirt so it doesn’t compare. Trying clean barrel and then test I4350 first after that H4350
Even AA-4350 outperforms IMR-4350 honestly. Not saying you can't get accurate loads from IMR-4350 just saying they will all be of lower velocity than the others H-4350 is the king and AA-4350 is the runner up in 4350's. Now IMR-4350 beats a newcomer Shooters World 4350 that even shoots slower loads than the other 3.
Where are the new videos? Love the channel
Like others have said the book load data for H4350 is very conservative. The nodes on my rifle are 41.5, 42.7, and 43.5 at 43.5 from my 22" barrel I see 2780fps with 140gr eld-m. I am using Lapua and Starline SR brass with no pressure signs.
Chip Herrick man try some rl 16.
bikeboy0012 will do, I have used RL17 with good results, but bought 16# of H4350 when I jumped in to the CM. Next ti me I at the store I an going to get RL 16,17, and 26 to play with.
Dang phone auto correct sorry for the typos
I'm going to use the rest of this can of H4350 to push things much harder before I move on to the other powders I want to test. So many people shoot it, there's plenty of info and experience of shooting way above max. Should be the safest way to see how the gun acts at higher pressures. I'm curious to see if my primer craters become pierced primers!
the scrape on the edge is from chambering, head space.
Yup, that makes sense. I'll have to do some tests where I look at some brass that is chambered but not fired. I bet you're right.
i have a 6.5CM as well, did you have any issues with firing pin when using small rifle primers?? i want to get Starline small rifle primer brass but i dont want to buy them and them not working with my rifle
H vs IMR can really make a difference. I used IMR4198 for years and it was definitely temperature sensitive. H4198 is much better in that regard.
Johnny you should get a RCBS Chargemaster Lite. Best auto measure on the market. Save a lot of time. Every once in awhile it may get an overcharge but very seldom. All you need to do is put it back in the hopper and do it over to get it right. I use to do what you are doing and after researching decided on the RCBS Chargemaster Lite because it is the most accurate and does not throw very many if any over charges like the competition. It's all because of their trickler being better than the rest even better than their most expensive Chargemaster.
Looks like you were almost at a H4350 node at 41.5. It would be interesting to see a 2/10 discovery around there.
That's Hornady's factory load btw.
My rifle likes the same setup. Haven't been able to get my hands on a box of the 143 eldx yet but my rifle just loves the 140 eld match under 41.5 grains of h4350. If the x bullet shoots anything like the match that's all I'll hunt with
I have a lot of IMR4350 because that is the best powder I have found for my 243 Ackley. From what I have read, H4350 is a safe bet for the 6.5 Creedmoor so I picked up a pound today for testing. I hope i have similar success to what you are having.
I did purchase the cheaper scale and it has always drifted from the day i got it. I will try different batteries and see if that helps.
I also bought the same hornady dies for 6.5 grendel awhile ago and really liked them.
41.5 is not the top end. You should be able to push around 43gr especially with small rifle primer brass. Book value is ultra conservative for h4350. The pitted primers are due to your firing pin not being bushed.
I'll be pushing things harder as we go along. I'm not going to worry about bushing the bolt or anything crazy like that (would probably cost as much as the gun!) unless we start piercing primers. I'm sure the cratering will probably be our first failure point when we get those pressures up.
Johnny's Reloading Bench I didn't mess with the bolt on mine either. When I still used Hornady I was up to 43.0 with the 142smk and now I'm running 45.1(lapua brass) with a 130 Berger VLD. You'll be glad you didn't mess with the large primers. I'm up to 10 firings on lapua brass and sometimes the Hornady brass primer pockets were done for after 2-3 firings.
@@davidhunt1606 what were the sings the hornady brass done at 3 firings?
@@rustyshackleford2723 Very loose primer pockets. In some cases the primers actually fell out while charging with powder.
Johnny 12/20/17 looking for you. Hope your feeling better! Like your videos! Does your Grand Pa watch and critique you work?
“Close up glamour shots of powder graduals.” Lol!
If the markings on that die are recessed you could use the black nail polish trick? Thank you for another great vid. Been waiting on this one!!
My savage model 12 LRP prints solid half minute groups with the 143 eld-x in the precision hunter line. working up my first handloads for it and will test them this weekend.
I just got a savage 12 lrp... I had good luck with the 140 eld... do you have better luck with the 143s...
H4350 continues to amaze me. It is my favorite powder for 6.5 creedmoor hands down. It's not the fastest, but it is definitely the most stable powder that I have tested. The temperature and weather change drastically from one way to another here and if shoots just as well at 40°F or 80°F. When it comes to hunting loads or "defensive" loads I can't think of a more consistent powder. What is your opinion Sir John?
I actually have both, and the little scale is still solid, the large one does not drift however I get the same thing + or - .06 gr. However I have been using the Deluxe Digital Scale from Powstro and it is .05 accuracy and seems for me to be the go to for speed and a bit more precision.
Tango Bravo Zulu link to that scale?
I can’t seem to find H4350. I have some IMR4350, RL17 and Hybrid V100. I just bought a Savage 10b 6.5 CM. I bought the 143 ELDX bullets. I have large primer brass and plan to use CCI 200 primers. Any suggestions on where to start for some accuracy loads??
I really like the full length die in the Hornady set; however, the seating die crushes my brass every once in a while. I've never had this happen even with the Lee seater.
I push h4350 in 6.5 above book max by just a skoash with excellent results. No pressure signs beside a tiiiny bit of cratering just like your gun produces.
What happened to the beginner series videos? I wanted to go back through to learn more about headspace and they was gone 😕
It would be interesting to test if weighing out every charge improves standard deviation or accuracy. A test you could do is take a few really good shooting loads and weigh out charges to .1 of a grain, .02 of a grain, and throwing charges with a powder measure. That way you know if you need to obsess over getting powder charges just perfect.
sorry for asking question for an old video, but i'm looking for the same scale your using. i looked through the scale review video and didn't see it listed or called out. thanks for any information you can provide.
Wash your hands more often and don't touch around your mouth. Always wash your hands when getting home from shopping
Loaded up some x39 last night and yes, started to notice it drifting on me. I will try switching over the batteries and try again.
Man, these delays are unacceptable. You need to just go full hermit. Start living off the land.
I already assumed he lived in a shack in the woods. (kidding)
I think he does. Just not the full, chickens in the house, hogs in the yard, pooping in an outhouse style shack.
Always great content !
H4350, 42 grains (it's over but I get no pressure signs) and nosler 140 grain ballistic tips is what I load. 1/2 MOA all day!
Unfortunately, my waow scale stopped working, was my fault as it fell to the floor and that was that game over. I then purchased a Hornady small scale and that one is great - very consistent always returns to zero.
Man, I wish you would go through the same load development and testing with a 28 Nosler. There's not much content out there for the 28 yet. Great videos BTW. I love your content.
Great videos. Just wish they were more condensed.
Great channel! One of my favorites, im always watching keep up the great work! Have you ever considered taking off your magneto chrono? This may affect accuracy, interferes with barrel harmonics. Just my 2 cents.
Thanks for taking the time to make the videos. So far I love the 6.5 Creedmoor. I built my rifle from a new 300 dollar Savage 11 and after a new stock, new trigger, pillar and glass bed I can't believe the accuracy its showing so far. what are you using for primers?
My small WAOAW scale is still working well. Been using regularly for past several months. No drift as of yet.
I guess like most of the cheap stuff out of China, some of us get lucky and others get lemons.
Amen. Avoid human contact!
It appears that your Compass likes to shoot warm. Usually it hits better on the second or third shot.
I’m a little confused. The hodgdon website says that h4350 powder and the eld-x bullet should have a federal 210m large rifle match primer. And his is a star line small rifle primer (CCI 450). Can someone explain to me what is right or would work better?
You’ve probably answered this before but where do you get your blank targets?! I’ve been using sheets of butcher paper but those look more rigid.
I would take that 41.5 gr. H4350 and seat the bullets out longer and see if it gets even better.