Ever Crisis reminds me of why I hate the FF7 Compilation so much.
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- čas přidán 3. 09. 2023
- The compilation is the worst thing that has ever happened to Final Fantasy VII.
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So what are your thoughts on the Final Fantasy 7 Compilation? Has it ruined the main game or has it enriched the experience? Is the Remake Trilogy the definitive way of experiencing FF7?
I'm a newer FF7 fan. My first, hands-on, FF games were 15 and 14. I have yet to go back and actually play the original, but I've soaked up the necessary information (don't quiz me though cause I'll instantly fail😅).
From my perspective, having the compilation has enriched my experience with the story and these characters. I don't see the remake trilogy as the definitive experience since the story in the remake trilogy wouldn't exist for me without the original (at least that's how I see it). I understand and see why a lot of older fans don't feel the same way.
@@QTRemnant Well it make sense and I don't blame you for enjoying it. That was the purpose of this remake actually, they slid fans like me aside to pull in new fans like yourself and I came to terms with that. They want this FF7 game to be for you guys what it was like for fans like me back in the day. I wouldn't be too upset if Square Enix was just upfront about the Remake, people like me had certain expectations. It was false advertisement, the trailers showed all the familiar scenes and by the time the last trailer came they started showing some new elements that weren't in the original. By this time they already sold us on the idea of the remake.
I have to see this through because after all I am a FF7 fans, I want to see if they stick the landing with this trilogy and if it doesn't then was it worth it in the end?
I think the reason ff7 has so much content is because it prints money
no other ff came close to it anyways
@@anaveragegamer359 it's the most popular, yea that makes sense.
I was about to buy the original FF7 on steam before discovered that you had to create online profile to play the game. Thanks for nothing square enix for turning a beloved classic into a drm fun suck job.
We're getting a younger version of Sephiroth because they're probably attempting to convert him into an anti-hero rather than an out right villian. Hence why they want us to understand and sympathise with his perspectives. This is what writers tend to do when they want to make an alignment shift on a character they get the audience to sympathise with them first. Some not all of the more compelling vilians in media are the ones that you can relate to on some level.
I don’t understand it because Sephiroth was already tragic. Ignoring Compilation, even in OG it was obvious that Hojo was probably a bad father to him and that he felt like an outcast. Learning he was a test tube baby used as a corporate tool sent him over the edge. Sephiroth was tragic, and even Cloud shows some sympathy for him in OG. None of this changes the fact that Seph was trying to crack open the Planet to eat everyone’s souls. He was a *villain* in the end and that should not be changed.
I think this is a flaw of modern writing tropes: trying to humanize the clear villains of the past in rewrites of fiction. The villains in these stories are such for a reason. They exist to heighten the character of the protagonist. They are story devices, as is the world of the story and the secondary characters. Sephiroth exists as he does because there is a play between him and Cloud as a character, in that Sephiroth is the ideal warrior archetype (soldier first class) who's mere name will get heads to turn, while Cloud merely "believes" he's the ideal warrior archetype (Soldier 1st class) because his trauma of being experimented on has had him repress his true self (a bumpkin from a small town that wanted to become someone like Sephiroth; a famous hero). This is why Cloud replaced Zack in his memory with himself, because he's always wanted to be a Soldier 1st Class, but Sephiroth is one and as you go through the game, you see what he's done, is capable of doing and plans to do and Cloud has a dissociative breakdown because he's trying to reconcile that he's not able to do what Sephiroth does because he's not that person at heart.
You don't need to know the villain's backstory, they just have to add to the protagonist's arc. All this explaining things in modern media ruins what makes fantasy as a genre exciting: the veil of mystery that surrounds a world and beings not fully like our own. Harry Potter is interesting because you don't know the origins of magic, or why it exist, or how the Wizards have kept themselves a secret from the normal population for centuries yet things like world wars and the atrocities of the past still took place. It's not important to the story of Harry and his battle against those who use the dark arts and it does nothing to elevate the characters to know why the Wizards didn't stop WW2 from happening when they've been steering muggle society behind the scenes for decades; who knows, who cares.
It's why Dragonball was (mostly) good until Toriyama started making the forms less of a plot device that comes at a crucial moment and more of an inherent power up; Super Saiyan goes from being a legend in the near-extinct Saiyan race to being something that has a one of many power ups in this one race alone out of the entire universe, that also has variants with God energy (Super Saiyan God/God Blue) that the God's have known about for somehow longer than the first time a Super Saiyan was ever witnessed. This type of intentional lifting of the veiland bloating of story devices is antithetical to fantasy story writing. Some things should be left for the viewer to ponder. Getting your audience to think means you trust their intelligence not to go off the deep end without handrails and that you want to encourage their imagination.
My biggest complaint is they called it a "Remake" when it was actually a Sequel.
did you even play the game? please, just use 1 braincell
hmm i wonder what remake means... its both
The subtitle is remake, just like rebitrh is the subtitle, so no it's not a remake, its a new set of the games in the series
Honestly, I think people would have been happier if they told us it was a sequel from the get go instead of a remake.
When I think of remake I think of something being re-made. I feel like if the remake was supposed to be an exact replica of the original, then it would be called "re-master", or the original with better graphics. I don't think that was ever advertised as such. I see Remake and Rebirth as the original, but expanded upon and explained, also given some new life in places. I love the original, and if I want that then I'll play the original. If I want an updated, current expanded version of the original, with some new liberties added, then I'll enjoy remake and rebirth. Anyway that's how I see it. I love them all for what they are. Hugs
I been thinking this for sooo long. And the next generation will never experience FF7 the way we did. It's a shame.
I know right.
Sure they will Switch has one of the biggest install bases for a console in history and the og is on it.
I disagree with this sentiment. It would be impossible for the new generation to experience ff7 the way we did even if there was a 1 to 1 remake. Part of the experience is the blocky chibi graphics. Hearing the theme songs in their old production. I will always love the original ff7 but I’m now convinced that the ps1 version is the only way to play that story. It holds so many fond memories and I kind of realize now that if there was a 1 to 1 remake then there would never be a reason to return to our beloved ps1 version and that thought breaks my heart. If any generation was to experience what we did then they have to play original and though it’s not the most likely thing, people go back to play old games they never had before all the time so I believe there will be those who will walk those same footsteps we did. All is not lost 😁
@@dijonnjuguna6634 Thats Fair.
@@AsherTheModder thank you 😁
Crisis Core annoyed me because it downright ruined Cloud's character arc in favor of giving Zack a better heroic send-off. In FF7 OG, Zack goes out in the most depressing cruelest way - he lets his guard down (to check on Cloud) and gets gunned down FROM BEHIND by Shinra lackies. It's like the Red Wedding of Final Fantasy 7 lol - nothing heroic or honorable about it. Yet, this level of cruelty serves a purpose for both Cloud and the gamer. For the gamer, it brings a desire to avenge Zack and bring justice by taking out Shinra. For Cloud, the level of cruelty serves as the catalyst for his identity crisis.
In FF7 OG, Cloud witnesses Zack's cruel death but is unable to do anything due to mako poisoning. Worse, by the time he crawls over to Zack, Zack is already DEAD. There is NO 'remember me, bro, be my living legacy' fancy speech. Because of this, Cloud never gets any closure. This perfectly explains WHY Cloud felt guilty and suffered a mental breakdown. It had nothing to do with Jenova cells or Sephiroth or some silly sci-fi contrivance. It was TRAUMA. Cloud saw his friend gunned down (gunned down for trying to protect him) and, because Zack wasn't alive to tell him any final parting words, Cloud puts the full blame/responsibility on himself. So how does Cloud COPE with this trauma? This pain? This guilt? He DENIES Zack's death. He BECOMES Zack. In becoming Zack, Cloud can now mentally/emotionally convince himself Zack never died. It takes Sephiroth, himself, to shatter this 'illusion' (who then uses Cloud's denial to further exploit and control him). But yea, it was TRAUMA that triggered Cloud's identity crisis.
FF7 OG had a wonderful way of dealing with loss and tragedy in the most visceral, emotionally-heavy ways. it doesn't romanticize it. It doesn't treat it like a hollywood production. It kept things real and relatable. Once Aerith died, that was it. Her belongings were dumped back in our inventory and we had to accept her loss. Similarly, when Zack died, we (like Cloud) had to watch him die in a brutal cruel fashion. We had to carry on that pain and anger within us until we finally restored some semblance of justice.
When Crisis Core retconned Zack's death scene, it turned a visceral powerful moment into an overblown Jerry Bruckheimer-inspired 'remember me bro' ending - complete with sappy Jpop music blaring at the end. Cue the credits. In treating Zack's death this way, Cloud's trauma gets UNDERMINED. After all, Zack is now alive long enough to give him parting words AND closure. He relieves Cloud of any guilt by making him his living legacy. This makes Cloud's identity crisis feel CONTRIVED - there is literally nothing for him to feel terrible or guilty about anymore. Sure, his friend is gone. Sad. But Zack went out in a blaze of glory (as opposed to getting shot from behind while actively checking on Cloud) and Zack gave him all the closure he needed to hear by making him his legacy. So WHERE does this identity crisis come from then?
Fandom and current-day Squeenix would have us believe it's 'Jenova cells! It's Sephiroth!' that's responsible. But wow, what a cheap gimmicky sci-fiish downgrade that is from something as powerful and relatable as the original's 'trauma/loss' reason, isn't it? Also, when you REALLY take apart this Zack death scene, it's not actually Jenova or Sephiroth that triggers the personality split. The true culprit of Cloud's identity crisis in this retconned version is actually... ZACK himself.
Whereas FF7 OG explains Cloud's personality split as a result of trauma and denial, in Crisis Core it's ZACK who is responsible for this identity split by FORCING Cloud to take on this 'living legacy' role. Even worse, this living legacy bullshit forever BOUNDS Cloud's identity to Zack's, with a dying Zack not giving Cloud a choice on the matter - he literally just dumps HIS dream onto Cloud and expects him to continue on HIS legacy. Like, within this context, it's no wonder Cloud regresses as a character in Advent Children. Hell, even in the COMPLETE version of AC, Cloud now requires Zack to tell him what to do during his rematch with Sephiroth - he has to wait for HIS input to take action. There's no way for Cloud to truly move forward and be at peace with himself or his relationships with others since the Compilation has turned him into Zack's walking shadow! He has to 'live for the both of them' instead of find his own path.
There's a whole slew of issues with Crisis Core I could address. But I'll end it like this. I'm just glad I wasn't the only one who got equally pissed off with the Remake for heavily implying that FF7 OG is the 'bad ending' now. Like, wow. It just totally destroys the whole meaning of FF7 OG, doesn't it? Apparently, the Remake's cast seems to think they are entitled to a good ending WITHOUT having to make ANY sacrifices or go through hardships at all? Wow... such an 'inspirational' story, eh? XD Oh, and don't even GET me started on how they misused Sephiroth and undermined the characters' arcs/journey by having them fight him that early.
Wow, the best breakdown I've ever read. Thanks!
It felt pretty weird how Cloud picked up his sword before looking at him in the OG it felt like
Cloud: OH NO THE SWORD.... oh hey Zack... WAIT ZACK NOOOOOOO
We all are entitled to our opinions, but it’s fascinating to me how people will be excited for a continuation when it’s on the horizon, but as soon as it’s passed and they largely find disfavor with it, they act like the original never needed it and it was totally fine before.
The original did need fixes and changes,no one is saying it didn't. What it didn't need was plot ghost and multi dimensions
@@holy9781 I understand, however Remake is literally a small part of the story at large. We don’t know the full vision of this modern telling, and while they did make changes it’s difficult to know how much the changes in Remake will have to affect the larger story and the overall themes of OG.
Many people actually are saying that the OG was practically told perfectly, that it didn’t need an update, that a follow up in the form of Crisis Core or Advent Children wasn’t needed or wanted and that Square Enix is just cash cowing in one of their most prolific franchises and games. Yet these very people were looking forward to the remakes, why? Because this game did have a profound impact and it was talked about years after, and people wanted to see Midgar and Gaia retold with the same graphics and voice acting talents with each new FF game. It’s a bald faced lie for people to act like they were content with FF7 when there were literal websites dedicated to reviving Aerith. There is a reason the game got so big and so many people loved it, it just irritates me when people act like they never wanted more than what they originally gave us. And not to disagree for the sake of disagreeing, but people definitely are acting like this.
@@JaredTVW we dont need to know where the story is going for them not to have added fsn fiction.we should know where most of the story is going.i havent seen anyone say one ff7 was perfect and didn't need changes.yall make this stuff up to cope with this fan fiction plotline.to each there own but this is the argument all ff 7 fanboys try to make.we wanted a one for one smh.no remake is a one for one so it sounds ridiculous
@@holy9781 well then you aren’t looking hard, because I have had videos recommended to me where within the first literal minutes of an over 2 hour video, the people in the video talks about how incredible and well told the OG was and how no one asked for more, and that everyone just accepted FF7 as it was and just moved on.
@@holy9781 with thousands of people echoing the sentiments of these people. So yeah, many people are in fact in support that OG was flawless.
I felt like FF7's story was pretty resolute. Even the ending as "mysterious" as people found it due to the absence of the characters, shows that the Planet itself heard everyone's wishes and continued to live on, which was what the game about from the beginning. I just felt like that was good enough.
I really wanted to like FF7 remake, but the awful storytelling and segmented nature of the "Remake" killed it for me.
This. Exactly.
Its Not awfull storytelling. Yoz just dont like it
@@indedgames4359It’s actually objectively bad storytelling. You can’t insert a multiverse into a lore that doesn’t support it.
"This asshole" lmaooo The Zack rant got me 😂
Admittedly, I hate the wings. I just thought it was something added in the compilations because of the song and they took a final form of his boss fight and just over-blew the idea in design. It was more symbolic before, as it was symbolizing of Sephiroth wanting God-hood, believing that he was chosen or was going to get it by any means and you the player, seeing him as that way in the final fight, making him feel more imposing and dangerous, have to fight this force that he wants to become. Now it's everywhere and over-used as a means to show people as Monsters without the context to why he had the wing to begin with in the original game.
Sephiroth in Kingdom Hearts started the trend.
Granted it was pretty cool back then, when the only other appearance of Sephiroth was the original FF7, and Ehrgeiz I guess, both on PS1.
But it's just gotten pretty silly from that point on.
Thank you for your point of view, I can see why it would be problematic to you. I am on the other side of that, I am glad they elaborated on a lot of those details. Any time i can spend with these chracters, getting to know them, exploring with them is time i cherish. It helps me escape for a bit, recharge and get back to my responsibilities. I don’t want them to leave things up to me to decide, I want them to tell me the story.
I like the compilation
My man
To each their own. Nothing wrong with that
I hate the compilation
You like everything
You’re wrong
I 100% understand what you're saying, while I loved FF7 Remake I did wish it was a simple 1 for 1 remake in terms of story.
I remember reading an article explaining that the devs didn't like to make remakes of already concluded games so when everyone was asking for more 7 they originally didn't like the idea of remaking it but after a while of people still wanting it, they decided to do it and make there own new spin on it.
FF7 Remake, Rebirth and onward are designed to be a sequel and not really a sequel. Which is why the story is different and honestly a fresh take.
It's the same bull they did with Kingdom Hearts sequels. Overcomplicating what was once a much simpler story just to add a million sequels and side stories, straight up retconning certain things in order to do so
"Emo Cloud" 's first appearence was not Advent Children: it was Kingdom Hearts. Same with turning Safer Sephiroth's single wing into an element of the design of Sephiroth's regular appearence. Who directed both Kingdom Hearts and Advent Children? Same person, Nomura Tetsuya. All's been said already.
FF7 is turning into Star Wars in the worst way possible
I loved Remake until I reached the end, and realized that it was a sequel not a remake. It decided to jump on the multiverse train, and say the old game is the bad ending. I’m all for telling a new story, but that isn’t how the game is marketed. My first red flag was Sephiroth being in Cloud’s head right after the you clear the demo chapter. I was like they’re showing him already? I was so upset when you fought him at the end, I know it’s not the real him, but they are saving that twist in the remake. But it takes all the intimidation out of him and they gave One Winged Angel away too soon. Now it won’t have the same effect as going on the entire journey to hear it I’m the true final battle. Technically it’s Safer Sephiroth’s theme, not base Sephiroth. Now we get a version of Sephiroth where whoop his ass in the first part of the game. He doesn’t even have an on screen appearance until after Midgard in the original and here he is shown within the first hour two.
Exactly, the ending battle was too massive for a first game. How can you compete with that going into the next game? Sephiroth was shown too early and I didn't like that but I was willing to accept it, if the execution was done really well but it wasn't. Then the reveal of Zack so early into the game is just mind boggling to me, its as if they wanted to capture the Zack Fanbase as early as possible to capture them.
@@MugenLord A lot of people feel like Final Fantasy 7 was just a single stand alone game and for a while it was, until they introduced the compilation of final fantasy 7 back in 2004. Every iteration of story expansion is a part of that and while they did step away for a while to work on other projects, they ultimately did deliver their promise on coming back to it. Anyone who is familiar with this project would probably have realized the multipart "remake" would NOT be one for one because it takes place at the END of the series. With that in mind, what their doing actually makes sense in the long game.
This will be a really unpopular opinion, but I agree with you on Zack. Crisis Core just seemed to take everything and throw it out the window. When I played FFVII, it always seemed like Zack was portrayed as a flawed and imperfect character and having him forced to be likeable felt like an extreme retcon. I also took issue with him and Cloud both having near identical meetings with Aerith-as I feel it undermines Cloud. I get that he adapted a corrupted personality adapted from Zack but the meetings didn’t have to be the same too.
I did decided to pre download Ever Criss though to maybe try to replay everything and see if I get a different opinion but I’ve just never been super happy with the compilation-but I’m still willing to give it a shot for at least one more Remake and the phone game to see if those feelings change.
Bro!!! I was going to mention the identical meeting of Aerith and forgot to add it in my script. You are so right about that, crisis core was so sloppy in narrative and was just all over the place with it's ideas.
I think the whole retcon critism in Crisis Core is a bit wrong. Yes, it add new context about Nibelhelm incident and Genesis's involvement, but remember, the original only show Cloud's false memory of that incident with him with him in Zack's position that only he knows of in his perspective with Jenova's twisting influence as well. Cloud never witness what happened in that reactor and Zack probrably never told him the whole truth at that time. I agree that for how much of a impact Zack's story is, Crisis Core and Genesis's motivation is very confusing and needlessly cryptic.
Also Crisis Core sold well and reviewed extremely well back when it released. It was considered one of the top PSP exclusives...so not really seeing where you're getting it wasn't a success from.
Squeenix always say their games “underperformed”, despite selling millions of copies
@@Tw0tson Thing is that Remake only sold 4 million copies, *seven* million less copies than the OG.
What does that tell you first-hand?
Everyone and their mothers were losing their shit over this remake, 30+ year old disillusioned millennials crawled out to play this game, and yet only four million showed up.
That’s not counting the people watching FFVII videos with slight interest in buying the game.
@@Anayoth very true
@@AnayothYou are so wrong lol. Remake was one of the fastest selling Ps4 games with 4 million in the FIRST week, by now we are at 7 million sales. The OG was at 9 million in 2007, 10 years after the initial release and was at this point aviable on multiple platforms. By now it is at 14 million, where we have to keep in mind that it is a cult classic you can buy on everything including your phone for about 10 bucks usually. What you are doing is comparing a game that is 4 years old and only on 4 platforms to a game that is over 20 years old and probably aviable on your fridge.
Remake, when compared to the original release of Ff7, is doing better.
@@brotbrotsen1100 First off, stop defending Squeenix, they’re a shit globalist company whom ruined the original.
By your own metrics, OG has 14 million sales while the Remake is still fucking stumbling. Why is that?
The PS4 is readily available while you’d have to shell a few extra for a PS1 nowadays.
If the hype can only get the game 4 mil at launch, your point is shit.
FF7 (1997) was able to stand on its own legs. There was absolutely no need for Dirge of Cerberus, Advent Children, all the other spin off cameos AND even Crisis Core was completely unnecessary. Not to mention that Crisis Core was only playable by a tiny minority of FF7 fans throughout the franchise's lifecycle. We now got Reunion but it does not contribute much to the main experience. There were a couple of scenes that would've helped hammering home some anwers I had in the original about Zack, Cloud and Hojo. But the whole Genesis/Sephiroth/Angeal anime stuff was a complete crap show imho and did not make any sense in the context of the main story. And the same goes especially for Advent Children.
Do not get me started on Remake, Rebirth and Ever Crisis.
I view everything after the OG as some cynical capitalist nightmare meant to feed on the nostalgia of blind fanboys who for some reason get an inexplicable high from the AESTHETIC of FF7. Pretty boys wielding impossible swords, cutting buildings in half, kawaii wish-fulfillment big titty anime gfs who always say yes, etc. SE took the Legend of FF7 and just devolved it into some everlasting weeab's power fantasy with absolutely nothing to say. Empty entertainment for a buncha empty headed consumers.
20+ years of additions to the FF7 lore and not a single substantial thing has come of it. The cast hasn’t developed. The world is stagnant. The same narrative continues to get recycled. SE just keeps finding terms and corners of lore to contextualize so they can shit out prequels, sequels, REquels, Xquels or whatever..
The worst thing about FF7 is that SE treats it like a main game while every other numbered entry in the franchise feels like an afterthought, or side game. The more that SE continues exploiting the FF7 brand that they inherited in the merger the more I realize that SquareSOFT was gangsta af for dropping FF7 in 97 and then moving on from that world completely into their next projects as if they didn't just drop one of the most influential pieces of digital art of all time. A strong testament to the restraint and dedication to creative integrity among Kitase, Sakaguchi and the rest of the Squaresoft team.
I love both the original and the compilation. I think the best way to look at it is that FF7 is it's own self contained story, and everything from the compilation(Remake and Rebirth included) is it's own continuity that's mixing up some aspects of the original and adding in new characters and stories.
I don't mind a lot of the new additions cause for the most part they're interesting, even if not that well written. Like having Angeal, Genesis, and Zack actually made me much more interested in Sephiroth, cause it gave other people that were like him, but it also still helped to set him apart because of how different he was even among those considered his peers
Though I do hate Remake and Rebirth not just being 1 to 1 retellings
My problem is the lack of restraint the FF7 compilation has, and that lack of restraint bled into the FF7 remake. So the remake did a lot good and some the expanded story elements are good too. But the time ghost and multiverse concepts are so and so poorly integrated into the remake that it nearly completely ruined the game.
I agree. I think a better approach to the Remake project should have been introducing parts of The Compilation that worked and were actually good into the core story. For example, Remake could have had its story expanded by integrating the evil Avalanche plot from Before Crisis into the Midgar portion, and maybe even ending the game with the Zirconiade battle instead of fan service Sephiroth.
I agree the compilation is a mess and then created the shipping wars and made ff7 the hot warzone whilst the others remain calm. One of the many reasons of why X & X-2 Are my fav.
Flaming Crisis Core on the internet. Ballsy move
Thank you... Zacks character in FF:CC has nothing to do with his character in the OG. Cloud didn't just took the "memories" of Zack from Nibleheim incident. He also mimic his personality.
When he woke up by Tifa and started impersonating a First Class Soldier. He didn't know how a First class soldier would act, so he started impersonating the one he was close to apart from Sephiroth. Zack. His posture, his way of talk, mannerisms etc.
How Zack in CC with his hero and honor syndrom correlates with how Cloud is acting in the first half of the OG?
But you can't tell any of these fanboys that.
I mostly agree but I think AC Cloud is easy to sympathise with: he's heavily grieving Aerith and Zack
After OG he shouldnt be. He was after grieving over Aeriths death and felt her in the lifestream. And OG Zack is a minor character to Cloud (not a big friend even) and Aerith ( there wasnt any real love there. He was her first boyfriend and cheated on her).
@@wmen48wtf. When did Zack ever cheat? Lmao.
@@watchmehope6560 When he was with Aerith he hit on Cissnei in cc and a turk in a mobile game. Also og has a that line from Zack and Aerith.
Thank you for uploading this video. I really appreciate everything you said about FFVII Remake, can say that is was/is much needed to hear within the community.
No prob, it needed to be said.
It isn’t just Final Fantasy VII’s Sephiroth that also faced this but also Star Wars’s Boba Fett, he was milked with his own TV series and the Prequel trilogy… When they do this with villains it removes the mystery… Both villains share that in common. The removal of mystery
Yep, Star Wars down the drain now.
Yeah. That’s kinda why I don’t really like the portrayal of Sephiroth in the remakes. His constant presence has gotten quite annoying and obnoxious now. I feel that this is a consequence of a character, namely a villain character, becoming too popular and iconic. They believe that they don’t need to keep someone like Sephiroth mysterious anymore because everyone is all too familiar with him now. But I still don’t see popularity and recognizability as an excuse to make it all feel obnoxious and in-your-face in the writing and to constantly shove the character down your throat. I don’t care how popular and recognizable they are, that’s a stupid excuse to use. It’s so fucking annoying to me and it’s like they trying to make me *HATE* his existence period. And his cryptic comments…his *STUPID. CRYPTIC. BABBLING* in the remakes are so annoying to me, I just wanna fucking-UUUUGGHH!!
Sorry, it’s kinda affecting my temper. Hm. Maybe all the numerous times you beat him up in the remakes are actually a blessing in disguise. I’m sorry, he just makes me so angry sometimes. I’m gonna start breathing out fire or combusting into flames.
@MugenLord Perhaps things would have been different if the father of FF franchise - Hironobu Sakaguchi - was still involved after FFX. He's said before that he doesn't like sequels and wanted each FF to stand on its own.
Sadly after his failure with the animated movie Final Fantasy: Spirits Within, it was during that time that Square decided to make compilations (FF VII compilation, FF X sequels or FF XIII trilogy) while Sakaguchi left the company.
Ueah, the entire series would be dead. Cause Spirits Within was that much of a screw up
I think I'm the opposite - when I like something I want to know more and more. My favourite character is Sephiroth and I want even more content about him. It would be so cool if we had a game like remake (and NOT a low effort mobile game) where you can play as him when he was younger.
I have a few thoughts on Compilation.
What sucks about Crisis Core is that it did have potential, maybe it could’ve been a gritty story about the Wutai War. I will die on the hill that Angeal and Genesis both had obvious characters arcs that would have made them decent characters, but for whatever reason they were made into the most irritating personalities in the game. Also hot take but I think they made Sephiroth too nice. In OG he wasn’t cruel but he wasn’t super kind either. He healed and revived Zack/Cloud in battle but he also left that trooper who fell off the bridge. He let Cloud see his family, right after having a small mental breakdown over his own lack of family. The guy was clearly unstable and I feel Crisis Core failed to capture that fully. But that is just my opinion.
I think Advent Children is just dumb and nonsensical, and it’s the start of Cloud being retconned into an edgy boi and not the hero he really is. I get what they were trying to do with the Remnants but they all came off as weirdos. Sephiroth returned only to spout one liners and not really say anything.
Imo Compilation trying to fill in holes in stories takes away from the original. The OG, due to hardware limitations and mistranslations, was rather vague in places… and that was okay! It led to a lot of speculation and debates (“Jenova or Sephiroth?” being most prevalent). There was no voice acting so lines could be interpreted differently across playthroughs. The story was finished and any holes or continuations should have been left to fanfiction.
Honestly, I admire Nomura for having the balls to continue his compilation nearly two decades later.
So before I begin I'll just let it be known that I'm an older FF fan who's first game was FF4 and favorite game in the series is 9. While I enjoyed FF7 back in 98, after replaying it multiple times I always felt like it's pacing wasn't great and parts of the story were lacking. Now that doesn't excuse any of what Square is doing with the remake, because I whole-heartedly agree that a remake should be a faithful retelling, with a little added polish for greater consistency. The problem with the popularity of FF7 is that fans have wanted this remake for so long and have been so vocal about it that Square knows that it is their cash cow that they can milk however they see fit and fans will just lap it up. Nomura went on record saying that to him a 1 to 1 remake is kinda boring cause other than having updated graphics and modernized gameplay, you know how the game plays out. While I can sort of see his point, they've taken absolutely massive liberties already and we're not even halfway through the story. Remake part 2 looks like it's about to be an entirely different story and although they promise that it will have the same ending this whole thing is just starting to seem like the shounen anime that never ends. While I thought the original was lacking after sitting down and really analyzing the story, one thing that I will agree on is that they are going overboard with their need to explain every detail surrounding Sephiroth. I hate the way they've tried to make this rivalry between Sephiroth and Cloud the focal point when in the original Sephiroth didn't give a damn who Cloud was, it was really only Cloud with the obsession cause Sephiroth is who he wanted to be. I don't want to sympathize with Sephiroth , cause even if he did get a raw deal the point was that he went insane and needed to be stopped. They told you everything you needed to know about him in the original and let him be an evil mysterious villain. I also don't understand why they feel the need to introduce 100 more characters to make the overall story even more convoluted. It's almost like they are trying to compete with One Piece for who has the most side characters. While I think 7 is a bit overrated I gotta agree that Square is going way overboard with this "Remake".
Bro, don't be surprised if they give Sephiroth a redemption arc in the Remake. I just have a feeling that Sephiroth won't be the main antagonist by the time we reach the end of the Remake Trilogy. The First game was an epic battle for no reason, where can you go from there with Sephiroth? Everything about this is nonsense and yes you're prediction is the same as mine when it comes to Rebirth. That game will be an entirely different game not that they jumped the shark with the direction they took at the end of the first game. I don't believe them when they say that its going to follow the original game. Sure, there will be familiar location but it doesn't mean it will the same context. I won't take anything they say at face value when it comes to the Remake Trilogy.
Im an og fan and i more than welcome all the changes they made.
im sure in the end result we will have many questions answered,and everything in place.
the og was not some kind of perfect miracle,a lot of blank spots,a lot of things that we never understood,imo SE will do a good job
Yeah they way Zack died in the original is not the same way he dies in Crisis Core. They over did it, and its changes the whole story from the original concept.
THANK YOU!
I disagree. Three Shinra soldiers could not take down a first class. Something major had to lead to his death. Cloud was stabbed and thrown and was perfectly fine. Three shots wouldn't do it with the deep Mako saturation they had
@@malpercio123 Crisis Core is a prequel I understand that, but I just feel like people should play the original first. But that is up to the player how they want to get into Final Fantasy 7. It came out 10 years after the original. All i'm doing is spoiling things but in Crisis Core they make Cloud come of as fine and sane at they end. I the original it seems like he was way more unstable. Zack had no words when he died in the original. I'm fine with Crisis Core and Zack, and now hes alive so lets see where it gose in rebirth.
@@malpercio123yes they could, they have guns. That and the fact Zack is also fucked from experiments he’s just stronger than cloud at that point.
Tbh if they could have shown how many grunts they wanted in the og they probably would have, it looked like that in the og cuz of their limitations, of course the creators probably wanted him to have a bigger death
I don't agree with you, at all on the sentiment, I can, however, understand the frustration.
When they announced the Remake I was, maybe naively, thinking we would get a "true" remake (in the normal definition of the term), but I didn't mind at all (I personally loved it) that they were actually adding further to story, I can, however, understand that it failed expectation on that front for many and SQEX dividing it in several parts is milking the fans. I personally don't mind because I've been liking and I also appreciate each instance for what it is and what it brings to the overall lore.
For the compilation, I've been loving the additions to the overall lore, I love that they decided to flesh out different chars, including Sephiroth; the adding of new characters to further expand on how horrible Shinra was, even if it was pretty obvious since the beginning.
For Zack, he is one of my favourites since I played CC and that game is still one of my favourites till this day.
I never played DoC, I watched the story though, and I enjoyed it for what it is.
AC actually added more depth to Cloud, the end of FFVII he and the team were hyper-focused on resolving the crisis which didn't leave him any time to actually sit on what he'd done and the 2 years of seeing the state of the World and isolating himself made him depressed, which shows that no matter how strong you might be you're not impervious to falling back into old habits and being depressed.
In the end, none of this matters much, that are how I feel about the overall compilation, I totally understand that it's not everyone’s experience. 🫠
Bro seriously, ur doing Gods work. Thank u for making this video because i feel alone on this...ff7 was beyond important to me & have some really good memories playing w my little sister in the 90s...she passed last year..wish the new ff7 stuff was actually FF7 that game ment so much to me and at 9 it guided me to the career path i would choose..this new ff not even just remake but all the new stuff, it is a betrayal to Sakaguchis philosophy of what FF is. I heard an interview where he spoke about it and this new stuff is just the opposite of everything he said it was and was ment to be
I know a lot of people loved ff7 and thus love the compilation stuff but a lot of it feels as if square could have released a game where all you do is milk a chocolate in front of thecgolden saucer and everyone would be celebrating it as a masterpiece.
I played dirge, I played crisis core on psp, I watched advent children, and most of it I didn't really like because instead of extending the story it convoluted it
I did not know that about Crisis Core. I think I heard about how Square was trying to retcon certain story elements. Plus, it seemed to overcomplicate certain things. However, ever since Shadows of the Empire where you have to buy multiple different media (the book, the game, and the comic) just to get the whole story, I no longer care for games where you're not going to understand what's going on for particular story elements unless you play this other game over here.
I love that u speak about the Resident Evil 1 remake because yes, thats how u do a remake, this is 200% how all remakes should be handled and what i wanted from the ff7 remake
They should've called it: Final Fantasy VII The Complication series.
We can definitely agree “Hollow Skies” was the best thing the compilation added to the FF7 lore 😂😂
Love that song XD
1:40 Even out of context and without the original audio, seeing this gives me the chills.
Technically the games you mentioned like Live A Live and Mana 3 are remasters. Remakes change story elements. Everybody is just confused. The new FF7 is a sequel because we know someone's messing with time.
Those games are made from the ground up, therefore remakes.
Final Fantasy X HD is a remaster. It's the same game with some enhancements.
The entire FFVII compilation is a complete mess of story telling that frequently retcons and ignores the primary source material. And that's probably the only thing that FFVII Remake was going to try to fix, but it won't.
Definitely won't because it's going to erase everything that came before it.
I just don’t let compilation affect OG in my mind. Compartmentalizing all of it lets me enjoy what’s good and shit on what’s bad without despairing about the whole thing.
This. I dont recognize any part of ff7 except the original game as canon. I have zero respect for anything else.
@@asdfghjkllkjhgfdsa8725 last order is cool, and kinda usefull since lots of people didnt knew about the Cloud and Zack scape flashback.
Every thing else in the compilation I agree, zero respect from me. If you gonna just rewrite the whole thing and change everything man thats just a shitty fanfic.
@@user-xu3bg7zh9c The one issue with Last Order is Cloud not killing Sephiroth and having him voluntarily jump into the Lifestream instead of having the grunt overpower a legendary soldier through sheer will.
@@sebastienbeaulieu4070 oh, I actually didnt remember Cloud not killing Sepiroth in las order.
It has been more than 10 years since the last time I watched it.
Agree bro. The more FF that comes out these days the less intrigued I am at the franchise......it shouldn't have turned into a franchise. The game was perfect as is
I agree with a lot of the points you make, but not with Crisis Core, you said it yourself, it was originally open for interpretation. Cloud wouldn't know about Genesis and Angeal. The story is also beautiful. It also wasn't a failure, it was one of the most successful PSP games ever. America is not the entire world.
Great take! I'm also not really a fan of compilation. Perhaps if Square handled it better the I'd might come around. I mean Zack is cool because he is the only relatable character in Crisis Core. Everyone else talks and acts, as Maximilian Dood put it, like "anime robots."
With FF7 Remake I believe it's more like a sequel. The Sephiroth in this game seems to know about the events of the original game. That's why he's trying to get Cloud and company to move differently in this game. But you'll notice that each time they are about go way "off script" the Whispers (or plot ghosts) intervene. An example is the Cloud was about to chop off Reno's head after the fight. The plot ghosts stopped him then. When it comes to Sephiroth's plans the plot ghosts would have made sure that things happened as they did in the original ultimately leading to Sephiroth's defeat once again.
So this time around we see Sephiroth get the party to play into his hands and destroy the plot ghosts. Now that they did anything can happen in the next game. In a sense Sephiroth is literally "remaking" the events hence the title. I don't think Square actually wanted it to be a 1 to 1 retelling with upscaled graphics.
On a side note the plot ghosts can be seen as the part of the audience who wanted this story to be exactly the same as in the original.
Interesting perspective.
honestly I like that FF7 Remake is taking a different route. Because I have played the Original. So I'm happy to see something new for the story. But I agree that they are milking the series
When you see the Death spell in FF6, Death is depicted as having one wing.
oh hell naw bruh dissed Crisis Core smh
Crisis Core was dogshit and we all know it
Probably the best 'compilation' entry before the 'remakes', but yeah, it still mucked up the story and characters of the original in many ways.
Since you didn't mentioned it after the Crisis Core part, the winged guy at the end of Dirge of Cerberus is in fact meant to be Genesis. At the end of Crisis Core Genesis was brought in by some SOLDIERs and they called him brother. He was then the one who slept deep in the deepground facility and woke up in the ending scene and took White with him. (Also he was modeled after the lead singer of the band Gackt which made the music for Dirge of Cerberus xD)
Whatever else we think about the FF 7 remake trilogy, I think we can all agree that it’s not a remake, but a Re-imagining which merely uses characters, locations, systems and events from the original.
That said, I had fun playing remake and hope that rebirth improves upon “remakes” shortcomings, especially the all-too-frequent padding.
It really says something when the more "faithful" remake of FF7 is a mobile gotcha game.
I agree, especially CC is just an uber fanfic written according to the feelings of a fat yaoi lover from Tumblr who, apparently, lives inside Nomura. DoC at least takes place after the events of the main game and even after AC, so it can be simply ignored and does not cause any damage to the main story. Just fan service for Vincent fans. But CC is a prequel and is directly related to the original. All the new characters are stuffy. Zack is just a marty sue, his love story with Aerith is just shit. Damn, in the remake Jessy and Cloud have more chemistry than Zack and Aerith. And events like the appearance of Genesis in the reactor when Sephiroth begins to suspect something is reminiscent of the filler arcs in Bleach.
Agreed. All that can be said, though I never had issue with Zack. Even in original game I knew he was the "original' Cloud, but Cloud's personality didn't even match him, so that made no sense. I do like how you pointed out the retroactive change in what people originally wanted and what was given. It's either people really are afraid to go against popular opinion or they couldn't have cared for the original game that much.
Yeah, they didn't have any similarities but the uniform now that you mentioned it and also Soldiers have the same color eyes due to the jenova cells but that's about it XD
What I figure is that Cloud, a giant nerd loser who always had trouble relating to people but had finally made a good friend who was brutally murdered in front of him, processed that trauma be creating an uncaring aloof super-cool badass persona. Which basically starts falling apart within days. But yeah, I originally assumed that Cloud's fake personality came from Zack too when I first played it.
What's interesting is that Zack's personality is kind of a retcon as well, even in the original game! That flashback scene showing Cloud and Zack's escape and journey to Midgar? Didn't exist in the original Japanese release. And that's where we first get to see Zack as the friendly sweet bro that he is. Meaning that the original devs of the original game felt like they had to go back and clarify that no, Cloud's personality at the start of the game wasn't based on Zack.
@@the_exegete I realize that also for Zack. One thing I miss about text dialogue in games is that the writing felt much more natural compared to how we see things acted out in voiced sequences of FF games. I'm excluding XII and for the most part X from this as they had a good translator that didn't completely delve into archetypes and not at all with XII. In fact, I think many of the characters in XII were unpopular because they acted too normal compared to exaggerated differences.
There were mannerisms in VII missing with motion capture compared to the sprites, ironically, because they were emotes conveying personality and translates into a Japanese method of acting, if one is familiar with Japanese shows like live-action or tokusatsu. Zack is way more animated in Crisis Core, Cloud far more mopey or withdrawn when I don' think they needed to play up personas more than we already knew. They ran into problems with this in Advent Children by making Cloud and VIncent too alike, highlighting those on the team not even liking reverting Cloud pre-end game.
People start comparing this writing or direction with Kingdom Hearts as some characters share the exact same archetypes and I don't think we should be able to make such distinctions for individuals in very different settings and experiences. It cheapens them almost to roles that fit popular culture like a cosplay and not those found to be believable to a greater degree at one point. Sephiroth unfortunately is the most guilty of falling into a role, almost like a mascot at this point because they won't let him die and not bolster the IP with his presence.
I think we have seen possibly without realizing for some, FF VII become products instead of characters. Maybe I see it more obvious than some as the game was never my favorite and I've seen the subtle changes over time and when over exposure took it's toll on certain characters and lore suffered for it.
Someday there will be a true Remake...
Valid points. I thought I was the only one who felt like this. I think they should of released ffvii remake after a true true original remake of ffvii. That way they could of solely expanded on ffvii from the aspect that they did without the mixed feelings from the community. It would of been it's own experience. Kind of how san Andreas does with the GTA series. Oh and braaaaah what is tha name of the production beat at 25:10! Myyyyyyy goodness! 😊
I dunno the name I ripped it from a youtuber blog channel a few years back XD
@@MugenLord that joint mainy my guy. Good pick for your outros for sure
While I do understand most of the stuff you do say in this video, and respect your opinion, I highly disagree. Because you do lack some angles of views on this.
And I do not try to attack you or anything.
You do say that.. they added a bunch of stuff, just to milk players.. And I have to remind people, that Square-Soft/Enix, is a video-game company, and that at the end of the day.. REVENUE is what matters the most. Yes, you might have a lot of passionated people working on that franchise, but still, if they can make money using one of the title series that worked the most, they will do it.
About the Advent children movie.. Well.. it was made back in 2005, hence why the animations aren't the best, and mostly was made for fans and mostly to do sell the game on PSP that got pushed back several times.
But the essential point I mostly disagree with you, is when you do say that the OG game, ended without any kind of explanations and let fans speculate. And while, this is mostly true, I do have to remind people that Ultimania books do exist, and that SE already said several times that there was many content cut from the original, that couldn't be included due to ps1 limitations and disc space but also budget cuts. Most of the stuff said in the Ultimania books, never left japan, and you needed to rely on either rough translation that missed most of the context of what was said, or trash scans online.
Now. Yes, they might milk players using the most valuable licence they do have on the entire FF franchise, but at the same time, writers and creators of the story, do have the right to go back to a story, and correct some stuff. OG FF7 had so many plot holes, and while they do add some "charm" and mistery to the game, decades later, and with the remake finally out, fans/people can basically agree that.. Some details on the OG game, made no sense whatsoever.
The remake does implie that different timelines do exist, and if you do take that into account, it does mean that what Sephiroth experienced with Genesis on one timeline, might not have happened onto another one. And that is mostly what is going to happen in part 2 with Tifa. Specially when Sephiroth do tells to Cloud, that she killed Tifa, and despite that.. she's still alive. So who is she?
And that is probably what a remake is about. Re-inventing a story, while adding context, expanding the lore, adding characters, details etc.. That is HOW most succesfull franchises do work. Think about One Piece, Naruto, and others mangas with theirs ARCS. That is exactly the same stuff here.
But putting that aside, I do think that most of your points in the video, do reflect your own personal memories, that you do value (as you should), that you do cherish, and are important for you for multiples reasons, and that you might feel trashed, or attacked because Square-Enix do changes all that. The main issue here, isn't what Square-Enix is DOING with the franchise, but your Nostalgia. And to explain this point further, lemme add some context : Let's say that you loved the movie Titanic. And that movie, is linked to so many memories that you do care. Now imagine that YEARS later, a remake does came out, and do changes all the storie, changing some details there and there, to the point you do not recognize the movie you once loved. This might, invalidate to some extent the memories you had, because the stories does evolve.. or should I say, moves forward.
And that is what FF7 remake, with the compilation, is doing. Not changing, but moving forward. To attract new players, but also, and that is one of the thematic of FF7, to make you see and understand that evolving, does include change, but it does not mean forgotten either. Moving on, isn't changing either.
Kingdom Hearts was a mistake.
I am able to ignore Advent Children and the rest of the Compilation and just enjoy the original game. I didn't like the Compilation from the start.
It is interesting to see the divide within the FF7 community on this topic and I like hearing discourse on it. Unfortunately, people on both sides get pretty heated and disrespectful to each other when discussions try to take place.
The man is right. The hubris of these creators who thought their garbage "defy fate" addition would be better. Slap a fan in the mouth and take their money. Square has lost me.
It’s not reimagined, it’s a sequel. Timeline shenanigans to try and avoid Sephiroth’s loss in the first place.
What ruined final fantasy 7…. It’s popularity. Like kingdom hearts, Square saw money and continued rather than have a one and done story. The “fans” with all their optimism have nothing but themselves to blame. Final Fantasy is a franchise of video games. Each numbered title with a beginning, middle & conclusive end. Final Fantasy 7 is a franchise all on it’s owned designed to milk the millennial “fan base” drunk on nostalgia.
Exactly. This is also how I feel about the compilation’s existence. Like it or not, it’s still just a cash cow and an excuse for SE to continue milking FF7’s image and popularity at the end of the day. Popularity can come with such messy consequences.
The answer is money money money
I do like some aspects of the compilation but it's been milked too much, I think.
Based on Advent Children Cloud I see him being in that state due to survivor's guilt and all that happens after the fallout post-ending slowly hitting him over and over as the "gotta save the world" high fades away.
Still, you make some good points.
No matter what they continue to do, the original will remain a classic, played it after remake and like it more that that version.
You have point about Cloud in Advent Children, that's a perspective that I never took under consideration.
So.. first off, fantastic video with great points. I'm more ok on this than you are. I'm a couple of years older but the thing for me is its been so long since 7 came out. Like nearly 27 years.. originally squeenix denied a remake for like two decades almost despite teasing us with stupid tech demos of how it'd look even all the way back on ps2. I don't like all parts of the compilation. I dislike dirge of cerberus. BUT I like elements of it, if SOLDIER was so powerful where the heck are all of them in ff7? Why is the only canonical SOLDIER member we meet Sephiroth who isn't even SOLDIER by the time we meet him since he's disavowed? Crisis Core explains that with the Genesis betrayal and him swaying SOLDIER members to leave the company (as did Lazard) imo that lore wasn't some mysterious plot element left to keep the player guessing--they just ran out of time, money, resources and decided what they had was good enough and since crisis core fixed that, I appreciate it. If SOLDIER is so powerful, how is Zack a SOLDIER 1st class, able to die from what the game makes to be 3 lowly shinra mps, tired or otherwise? Crisis Core fixes that. Young Sephiroth is definitely something I appreciate, but I think they're not taking it seriously enough. Why is he a 'hero' specifically? Why was he the Michael Jordan of SOLDIER where every single person, every emo teenage kid knows of his strength? That I always wondered. Even some things that weren't really acknowledged properly imo such as the wutai war. The actual ingame (from what i recall) doesn't really address or connect the two without going to wutai. Everytime someone says it, Cloud, Aerith's mom its just 'the war'. But it seems so powerful lore wise, it should be addressed in the main story, ff7 remake does that. Now things I don't like--I think games like Crisis Core almost retconned Sephiroth where they made him too soft. Even in the OG game, he had some humanity, he felt things, could be tortured by the lack of knowledge of his identity. But Tifa herself says she felt nothing but indifference from him, his cold demeanor when the shinra mp falls to his death, a self absorbed nature--then all of a sudden he CARES deeply about his friends, he's courteous and thankful to zack for hunting down genesis in his place, he has HONOR and pride as being a member of SOLDIER as shown by his farewell speech to Zack? But i'm OK with it, it didn't take his coolness factor away, the hero aspect of him is never seen whatsoever until crisis core. Unless you consider being strong and invincible traits of a hero, so while imo a retcon I didn't dislike it.
I also both liked and disliked the retconning of avalanche. The group seems way too convenient. A bomb capable of taking out something as huge as a reactor--Shinra's bread and butter. Like think of the only things even closer to that destructive power like the Junon Cannon/Sister Ray, how shinra needed tons of resources, time and prep in order to use, whereas Jessie just destroys 2/9th of the midgar reactors with no backstory or reasoning why. That said, it also takes away from barret in some ways but he's better in the remake version as in he's more intelligent, articulate and even knows about the ancients who he never seems to mention despite having studied at cosmo canyon.
Hate Genesis, he's cool as a contrast to character but I hate him for too many reasons. 1) The plot of his genes being spliced with the tsviets and teaming up with Weiss in a plot point that hasn't been resolved in 17 years. 2) While it can be explained and while I actually love him in crisis core, him being in nibelheim flashback takes away Sephiroth's agency and makes him a victim or even underneath Genesis, since while he ultimately probably wanted Sephiroth's help, he enjoyed goading him and mocking him out of his admiration turned jealousy and it WORKS. Despite the fact that I love the scene, that for me falls into your category of changes ruining the old games lore, story and intrigue.
Love Lazard, him being the bastard son of president shinra makes a billion times more sense than Sephiroth taking orders from Heideigger, or even Sephiroth bossing around Heideigger if he was defacto leader of SOLDIER, imagine these two even having dialogue is kinda weird.
Buster Sword lore... im ok with. It had no significance other than being extremely cool and being Cloud's (zack's) default weapon. Like literally never see it again 2 hours from the start of game. Imo they made it relevant.
For stuff that I can SEE why people (including you) have an issue with, like Zack being alive. I get it.. its just.. its fine. Square Enix stance on not doing a remake for 2 decades was it wasn't gonna happen, answered in interviews twice, or giving a round about answer. No one thought it'd happen, thats why it was so hype so despite it not being the perfect 1 for 1. The characters I know and love are better than ever, the memories experienced are better than ever. As much as Jessie was my favorite npc in an FF game in the OG, she is WAY better in the remake without a doubt. I'm ok with her showing up after nearly 25 years dead, i'm ok with peoples fanfiction of Zack coming true, i'm just fine with it. Like the things that the fans wanted, is still there. Nibelheim is still there, Priscilla and the dolphin will no doubt be there, gold saucers still there, mini games are still there. Cloud being...with the homies in honeybee inn isn't but for obvious reasons, HECK the dancing part imo was BETTER. Not a single streamer i saw who hated it, especially newcomers. They even made Yuffie likable and not just an insufferable brat. So i'll give it a shot. Heck the latest trailer.. is the most hype game trailer i've seen in like 10 years. Its just too bad, I know some old school fans are done, some for your reasons, others cuz its not turned based. But they got me. Now I do wish it had carry over data, cuz it'd make playing through all 3 games when they do release feel seamless but.. meh
Final Fantasy 7: The search for more money
Must give it a try when I get some time, though it seems they are milking the hell out of FFVII LOL. I thought it was pretty cool that the character Glenn Lodbrok, kind of almost looks like the main character Einar Ulrik, of the comic/game I am remaking... He was heavily inspired by a young Roy Batty of Blade Runner, and Souther of Hokuto no Ken, since I felt bad for those characters as a kid. In addition to him being a mercenary, he is also the lead vocalist/guitarist of Metal Band called, "Star Rekkr".
I think why Genesis was not in the OG during Nibelheim was because it was told from Cloud Perspective, and he was not there personally
There are still plenty of mysteries within the expanded lore of the compilation. And the fact of the matter is that Remaking FFVII without compilation lore was never possible, nor was it going to happen. There are fans who like compilation material and excluding that would make them feel let down.
As someone who knows a good bit of FFVII lore and it's history, I think FFVII Remake is something that has existed at some stage of conception since at least 2006 and that Dirge of Cerberus was the first entry to bolster a future Remake. On that matter I think Remake and the Compilation is actually the story the developers wanted to write in an earlier draft of FFVII. The retcons mostly go back to Dirge of Cerberus which they are calling back to with The First SOLDIER story in Ever Crisis. So, I think to call it all a 'cash grab' is a bad mischaracterization.
Yet somehow they made the original without the comilation so it seems very possible.
If fans of the compilation want that then they should of remade the compilation. But that wouldnt make any sense, because the compilation nonsense hasnt been held up as a masterpiece for 30 years and is usually considered mid to bad while having little that made the original game a masterpiece.
@@asdfghjkllkjhgfdsa8725 Most fans like the compilation, so I think they should aim to please the majority when possible. But what's more important is that the devs are allowed to remake FFVII as they see fit.
@deltasyn7434 sure, that's why people often cite ff7 as their favorite game of all time and absolutely never mention the compilation as that. Most people acknowledge they aren't nearly the same tier and that the compilation is completely different and inferior.
They should aim to please the people who supported their company and helped make it what it is today. The same people who hold ff7 up to this day as one of the greatest games ever made. Especially when they are remaking that game.
Square is allowed to put feces in a box and call it part of final fantasy 7 and I am allowed to call it the trash that it is.
The only compilation material talked about in a positive context are Crisis Core & Ever Crisis.
Dirge of Cerberus… Square either thought Vincent was good enough to be a main character (he isn’t), or they were moving away from turn-based combat at the time.
So, coming in after the video ended. Got some things I want to say
1. What is your stance on Crisis Core? You bounce back and forth constantly between liking it, and not liking it, then liking the remake, but then also hating the remake. Like, pick a side, if your going to use it as a basis for your argument.
2. If I spend my entire life eating "Mr. Goodbar" and think that its literally the best chocolate bar in the world. And one day, someone hands me a Reeses Peanut Butter Cup, am i not allowed to like that? Is it not possible for someone to change their mind?
In how this relates to the video, you mention that fans "retroactively" changed their stance on the remake. But could it just be that it made a big enough impression on them, that it changed what they thought they wanted? Similar to how you did after playing through Remake, can people not change their mind about what they wanted out of it?
3. For a title pointing out Ever Crisis, you dont talk about it much at all. You focus to heavily on the Remake for the title to make any sense.
4. What worked before doesnt always translate well with the passage of time. Look at old disney cartoons. Shit is filled to the brim with racist imagery. Should we start faithfully recreating those? Some elements just dont transfer well with time. And its hard to compare a Turn Based RPG to an Action Adventure RPG, but whatever.
Im gonna step off my soap box. Your video was, if nothing else, something to look at, as far as how to not organize or structure an arguement.
Hope things get better for you, friend
This video was cathartic. Really explains my frustrations with FE7 Remake and the disillusionment I had with this franchise and Square-Enix as a company.
Kingdom Hearts as a franchise was dead to me after KH3 as well.
I welcome you to the SquareSoft purist club and FF10 will be the cut off for me
@@johnshea7871 Based and Decologypilled
KH2 for me
So for me I consider myself a new final fantasy fan since my first ever final fantasy game was 15 but my favorite one is 7 (still making my way through 16 so that could change) And me personally I don't have a problem with compilations because it doesn't take away My love and enjoyment of the original final fantasy 7 and Even the remake because I understand that these are supplementary material and I don't really have to engage with it and that's kind of the beauty of the final fantasy franchise is that once you beat it and if you feel like You're satisfied with the conclusion you don't need to continue consuming every single material. You think I really care about ever crisis even though I like remake? Hell no I'm just going to ignore those shits and Wait for rebirth.
All that being said I do find it funny how final fantasy 7 has been The most milked final fantasy game but as I tell people try not to take the supplementaries stuffs serious if you don't want to.
Interesting point of view, and you're right if you put it that way.
There is only one Final Fantasy VII, it was made in 1997 and it has no spin offs, no prequels, no sequels and no remakes.
Only the Original exists.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying here. FFVII Remake is not a remake. It's Square being cute with the title. I'm one of those fans who first played FFVII at age 7 or 8 or so and it introduced me not only to Final Fantasy as a franchise but JRPGs as a genre, and it was an absolute revelation. As a nerdy, literary type even in childhood it completely rocked my world. Ironically, I have said for some time now that while my favourite FF game overall is probably IX, there is no replacing the nostalgic fondness that comes from having played a game like VII.
So it was funny to think that I followed the entirety of VIIR's development with mild disinterest and scepticism. After the XIII trilogy, I'd largely lost faith in Square-Enix's in house developers. Team Asano were amazing (I adored the 3DS Bravely games) and a lot of titles with SQEX's logo on them were right up my alley, but not FF itself. And observing the development hell and radically different direction of XV did little to change my mind (the only FF game I skipped on launch, I still need to go back and finish it someday).
In fact it was not until playing the demo that my opinion flipped 180 degrees. Suddenly, I was unreasonably excited and felt like a child again. These environments were lovingly recreated in even more detail than in my imagination, and so much of the OG's "spirit" seemed to be present in that intro sequence. All the characters acted like they "should" at that point in the story. Even the gameplay was great to me, to this day, I think Remake's combat system is one of the best in the series (having played Tales and Star Ocean, I am no stranger to action RPGs, and I enjoy them if they're done well). So I naturally preordered the game and played the hell out of it on day 1.
I will never forget what a religious experience it was to see my childhood brought to life like that. The feeling of looking up and seeing the "ceiling" of the Plate was like nothing else, let alone waking up and seeing the slums during _daylight_ hours. I didn't care about padding, to me it was an opportunity for expansion, and I was eating it up. Which is what made everything to do with the whispers a complete slap in the face. "They were _so_ close," I thought, "to capturing everything I had wanted in a remake, but they _just couldn't help themselves_ from fucking it up". To be explicit: if VII Remake proper had been like Intergrade, I would have had much less of a problem with it. You want to make changes or expand things, go ahead, if they're done well! Just don't justify it with plot ghosts and deus ex machina! It is hard to overstate how emotionally bummed out I was because it was proportional to how giddy I'd been beforehand.
I never "minded" the compilation, per se, I just paid it less attention. Zack does have entirely too many fangirls but given his character it's expected, lol. I enjoyed Crisis Core for what it was, even if it raised a few eyebrows. But VII invoking tropes around 'fate' for no reason (looking at you, Toriyama) left a bitter taste in my mouth. I'm still looking forward to the next instalment and I even checked out Ever Crisis, but my expectations are a lot more muted this time around.
This might be the worst video I’ve ever watched on CZcams. 😂
Wanna hear the most bizarre shit ever? Cast your mind back to 1997, FF7 is a massive success in Japan, 1999 FF8 comes out, success as well, FF9 comes out and the crowds love it. Then FFX comes out, the merger happens and the new CEOs ask Nomura what he'd like to make a compilation of games on, since they have a shortage of games and creators due to the exit of Sakaguchi and others. Nomura picks FF7 since it's his baby out of the offers of FF7, FF8, FF9 and FF1.
So Nomura begins working on a few things and keep in mind, the compilation was meant to be a 10 year anniversary thing, so immidiately, people follow the hype of Cloud, Sephiroth and Tifa in Ergheiz with an OVA, Last Order, about Zack's final moments. Then Advent Children. Then two projects, the mobile game that Ever Crisis is now based upon and Dirge of Cerberus. Then at the 10 year anniversary, the idea was to have a double project; a PSP game and a PS3 game. You know the PSP game but the PS3 game was a ground up remake of FF7 as an action game.
Due to SE fucking up with some game engine stuff and pushing Nomura to do some more stuff, coupled with them fucking up with a few of their games, the FF7 remake gets silently delayed so various cryptic magazine segments come out as "FF7 compilation is extended as a 20 year anniversary" and stuff. Years pass, nothing happens, Nomura writes and revises scripts, has an idea about the combat system from all the games he's worked on; nothing. The game engine problem persists so much, it affects even Vanilla FF14 and you know how it goes from there and how many projects got crippled.
Eventually nothing happens, Nomura himself thought the project is abandoned and SE changes CEOs; new CEO, the guy you fight in Nier Automata removes Nomura to lighten his workload and gives FF7 Remake to cc2. Something happens internally with one of the producers from SE, cc2 is out and their progress all scrapped. Fast forward to the first teaser of FF7 Remake to the public with "Director : Tetsuya Nomura" flashing on the screen and the man having a panic attack because they basically told him to make it. On the spot. On stage. While he was in attendance for the show.
Nomura and team go to work, halfway the project starts changing from a simple action remake to its current form and after Nomura finishes the battle system, he's out, again. And now the New Compilation is at the hands of one of the original producers, Kitase. Now, that might sound good but Kitase was also instrumental on another series of games with a compilation that went horribly : FF XIII.
So yeah, good luck with the new Compilation. 🥲😂
PS : Oh and straight from the horse's mouth, Sakuaguchi's and Nomura's interviews with Kitase back in the day "The ending is thousands of years later, the planet stands defiant and Meteor is stopped. Red arrives to see the old Midgard, now covered in beautiful nature and reminiscence" implying that since Red is alive, the others were alive too at the end, since they all escaped. What's more, if Meteor wasn't stopped, the Earth would be space debris without queston. The only reason someone(Toriyama) wants it to be a "bad ending" is because he wants to make the Lifestream into the Far Plane. I'm sadly not joking, go play the game, go the Shinra building and look at the founding fathers of Shinra portrait. And you'll see what I mean.
Wow awesome read, I did not know any of this information. This really brings a lot of this into perspective.
Born in 98 recently got to the point where you fought Reno I'm wanting to reinstall it 😭
Couldn’t agree with you more, it’s so corny how Square has milked the FF7 universe
We wanted more stuff from ff7. They are giving us what we asked for. It may not be exactly what we thought but it is what it is.
7th Heaven Mod Manager is the true FF7 Remake.
This is Hate Speech!!! This is ff7 bigotry at best
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I agree with your perspective on this, and you really made me consider how lax I myself have been regarding this when I consider younger players now and what their perception of the series will be. I will say, though, that from a creative standpoint, what they're doing with FF7R and the next installments is one of the most interesting things they've done with the series in a while. Kind of how you said some things are best left untouched, I'm sick of classic remakes coming out and people just wanting to play the games they played as a kid, and less love being given to new IPs or interesting concepts developers might have. So to see them take a big swing with this and actually use the IP in a fresh way is exciting to me. I feel like everything in the compilation, up until the remake, has been just a money grab, but they've said that this isn't an actual remake anyway. They're shedding the entire form. It might add things you don't like about the original--and a lot of lame entirely new stuff, like some of those boring new characters--, but I have to give it props for taking an actual risk with the series instead of just adding unnecessary backstory. I also really hope they don't make Glenn connected to Cloud in ANY way (:
The way you view the remake is with a mindset of substitution, to me remakes dont exist to enhance the original experience necessarily, thats what remasters are for, so I personally view them as a different way of seeing the game you originally loved. For ff7 remake I always wanted it to be action combat so that is a good change IMO (I hate the over the shoulder camera though, god damn how I hate this shitty trend), but I agree with your points regarding sephiroth and genesis, its quite obvious the way they handle them is to maximize fanservice.
Lastly, regarding why only ff7 gets that treatment, its most likely cause they know it will sell well and the people at the helm (nomura and kitase) want to have more creative freedom, if you compare it to star ocean, for example, tri-ace doesnt have the luxury of FF7 name so they have to go full close to original, they probably feel they HAVE to be more grounded and having less ego than the people in charge of FF7.
I understand your frustration however we won't know everything until the final product.
I agree.
11:43 I dont think that they were shitting on the og be showing red saying that, in fact they were just fighting against fate because they thought it was the right thing to do, considering that they saw sephiroth controlling the whispers... so it is logical to assume that they would challenge fate if they wanted to beat sephiroth. Im not a big fun of this whole whispers/fate plot but I dont think it is shitting on the og game, in fact rebirth was an incredible retelling of the of story(except for chapter 14 wich was messy).
They obviously made the remake the way it is to make the compilation make sense to the ff7 remake, also times have change 26 years in fact what worked back then doesnt always work now, clearly its been rebranded to appeal to a new generation and have new experiences while also celebrating the past. u took it as disrespect i saw it as not messing with the original story making it its own timeline, that way the compilation make sense without destroying the original story and still leave the mysteries u still have while those who want a conclusion can play the remake but its all about perspective. like the video tho
Damn was ff7 milked it makes me actually glad that the amazing ff9 hasn't been milked.
I agree man, wish they just made a genuine remake
I agree with some parts of the video.
I don't like the idea that original FF7 ending is "the bad ending" and needs to be fixed. In fact, the FF7 remake doesn't give a lot of context to justify why the original ending is a bad ending. It feels as if the Remake devs think of the original FF7 game as a being a flawed product that needs to be improved upon using "modern sensibilities", even though that's not the case at all.
However, I don't mind the FF7 spin-offs and sequels giving additional explanations and context for the stuff that appears in the original game. If anything, they're welcome additions (with a few exceptions, of course).
@MugenLord Final Fantasy is a game for people with the INFJ personality.. only us truly understand what it means and what the crystals mean. However.. I'll tell you.. because its been made more and more obvious in mobile games like Brave Exvius.. or an anime called Higurashi where Rika use crystal fragments... The crystals is like a memory of the past/present and future.. that is its power.. and the true power of the crystal is visions soo you can attempt to create and do the best choice for the ending... you'll notice that there is constant restarts in Higurashi.. this is why Final Fantasy is a title where several of its games has multiple endings.. maybe not all but they do. I hope this gives context as to what is going on with the game. It was always going to happen.
FF7 remake was the biggest disappointment I have played, what a mess 🚮
It's a remaster simply because there isn't expanded content for these other games like FF7. I don't believe Live a live or trials of mana have built out universes like FF7 does. I don't necessarily agree with all the changes but to me it's obvious why FF7 has a different type of remake than these other games
I will never be a memory
I agree with most of this. Crisis Core's story isn't that great, but i appreciated the improvements they made to Reunion, which was actually quite fun to play.
Rebirth is being gifted to me, so I'm going in with the exact same mentality; Gameplay, exploration, and mini games. Love the OG FF7 story. But this time around though, couldn't give a shit.
The compilation damaged 7 so badly. Even Remake is a bastardisation!
Everything in the FF7 compilation after the original game is dead to me. You can't add to something that's already complete.
I am not Square Enix' target audience. The more time passes, the more that is true.
Tetsuya Takahashi, his wife, and Sakaguchi himself left. Yasumi Matsuno hasn't really been in charge of anything since VS. I consider Sakaguchi's Lost Odyssey to be the last good "FF" game.
Genesis is easily the worst addition to the FF7 mythos. He's literally just a plastic-surgery-infused androgynous Japaneses pop star self-insert and it's totally obvious. And the fact that Dirge of Cerberus, the canonically 'most recent' game in the timeline, reveals that he's still alive and been plotting the entire time makes it even worse. Apparently we're supposed to believe this guy is the 'true' most powerful mastermind behind the whole story.
Not to say that Sephiroth himself hasn't been completely butchered and milked to death - totally negating the air of mystery and awe that was instilled in the original game.
At least Genesis hasn't showed up in the 'remake' trilogy yet - but I'd be shocked if he doesn't show up eventually. But at this point, if Genesis is the final villain of 'Part 3' or if it's still Sephiroth (who's been so milked and shoved in our faces), it's all going to suck. I mean, Sephiroth has apparently gotten his ass kicked several times already by the end of Rebirth, which is only about 1/3 of the original game. He's just a joke now