How Good Is This? - Building the Raptor Prototype
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- čas přidán 10. 01. 2019
- Things are moving along quickly now as we get closer to completing all the items on the list that need to be done before moving the aircraft up to the airport. Both wings are now fitted and have aligned nicely indicating that Jeff did a good job dialing in the wing fixtures. The upholstery is back so now we can begin assembling the instrument panel. Things get a little more fun now with smaller jobs that go quickly instead of the tedious jobs that take a long time that we've had to deal with for ages.
Follow us on instagram @raptor_aircraft - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Love the honesty when things don’t quite work as expected. Looking great!
Darryl Zubot The honesty is so refreshing. It makes me feel much better about my deposit.
What investors want first and foremost, is what investors always want - credibility. The late change in the elevator is a shame, but it's a relatively small chang and it's a prototype. I believe a redesign for production is certainly workable, just like the door lock design. That's dependent on engineering knowledge, a relatively cheap commodity that you and Jeff seem to have plenty of. What you're actually demonstrating is your management acumen which is much harder to come by in the startup world. And I'm 100% certain that investors will respond positively to that. You're making the exact right choice in my opinion and it's the right choice to lead with it in the video.
Anyone who has ever built a company from scratch knows that there are many 'oh sh**' moments. Investors in the space all know it. Their presence is always assumed and no one makes a 'go/no go' decision based on whether or not you thought of every single one of them at the outset. One of the key questions they always all ask themselves on a new projects is "What's this guy going to do when he hits one of those moments.'
You're already telling them what you'll do. They're seeing it in real time, and it's a very powerful argument. I wouldn't be shocked if initial testing exposes a few more. You guys clearly know that it goes with the territory. And so long as you have a low cost recovery strategy, it's going to be fine.
Hang in there Pete. You guys are doing the right thing. I'm 100% certain of it. After 4 years of bootstrapping the benchmark is all that matters. Get to the point where you're getting the information you need to see what 'really' needs to be changed. The rest can be fixed later.
Don't let the naysayers get to you. The people whose opinions you're probably most worried about right now will all take something extremely positive from this, I promise.
I was not hesitant to make my deposit years ago when you first pitched this airplane. Having watched almost 3 years of videos and read almost all of the comments, I am still very proud and remain completely satisfied to have placed my faith in you, Peter and your team. BTW, Happy Birthday, Devon.Those people that think you should quit should themselves should probably quit watching and complaining. Success never comes easy and your changing the elevator design is somewhat disappointing, but since you are going to fly this baby first, then safety is the most priority moving forward. As you have clearly and repeatedly indicated, you want to get this bird in the air and the design changes can come into play once the prototype is flying.Keep up the great work Peter and we all appreciate your honesty and your hard work!
This is VERY exciting. I can't wait to see it flying. AWESOME!
OMG there's a plane in your warehouse! Looks way better then I thought it would! Keep on keeping on guys! Can't wait to see the first flight(s)!
No such thing as failure Peter...Act, learn, and adjust...Setbacks are disappointing, but the only way to learn...You have done a remarkable job of minimizing setbacks...Better to be conservative on the control linkage for now until alternative ideas can be tested...You are doing an amazing job. We all appreciate your focus, attention to detail, ingenuity, and perfectionism which is required for an ambitious project like this. Kudos!
She's looking good Peter. The worst part about looking at your videos is coming to the end of each one - I really enjoy them.
I'm glad you guys are being conservative on important components like the elevator. The roller hanger is an awesome design. I really hope a solution can be found for the binding.
Sorry about your hinges man! Don’t think of it a missed target, just a target you haven’t knocked down yet.
Breathtaking , looks great , the baby coming out soon, well done snd fingers crossed.
What a fantastic project. Unfortunately, you can't avoid a few minor errors when something is this complex. Good luck guys.
Thank you and very nice looking plane, hopefully one day i get one to fly in Fiji
I know the external hinges on the canard aren't what you wanted, but they do give a bit of a badass aesthetic.
Beautiful airplane! I can't wait to see her fly.
I'll take mine in Ferarri Red, please!
Thin washer under the heim joint will do it... Looks great
Love the overhead shot of the aircraft with Jeff standing next to the left strake. I'm relieved that the elevator roller hinges are on hold. Like you I was worried that they might jam up. I was worried that they might be susceptible to debris or icing. I'm sure you'll come up with a raptor-esque solution in the long run. God speed y'all. Oh, and happy birthday Devon.
Pete, put a set (joggle) in your bellcrank actuator rod. It only needs an offset of 2mm to clear. It means you will havr to ovalate the rib through-hole slightly as well
Great episode so far.... pat yourself on the back buddy.. doing great.
so much to do, its amassing only a few mistakes. A lot on your mind.... please be patient with yourself.....
Awesome work. I hope I get to fly this bird someday. Looks amazing. I also really like the electronic pitch control and the gear lever, very unique.
I understand you want to go with simpler now to get accreditation, but for future reference there are many different types of bellcranks that can be used in place of the one you were going to use. Things like offset forged or billet bellcranks with Y-yokes to keep the rod joints in double shear, in a number of different materials. These come with a very slight weight penalty (ounces rather than pounds) but with greatly increased strength.
Hey Peter, I saw the other comments but wanted to throw this out there. May not be a solution for the prototype but maybe for production. If you cut the offending long section off the bell crank, weld a plate across the lenth of the lower half to make an angle or T, then use a flush barrel nut to fix the rod end you could get your clearance back.
Absolutely love what you guys are doing and what you're going to accomplish. The GA industry needs a good shake up. I absolutely CANNOT wait to see this incredible machine fly and to have one parked in my hangar.
One small and minor suggestion for aesthetics, I believe you should counter sink the screws/bolts on the throttle cover panel. It looks great, but considering that someone's wrist/hand will be sitting there quite frequently, it should be smooth.
Gosh it’s coming together nicely. Well done team.
Well done. Looking forward to first flight....
Disc Brakes, as in your car, should have minimal drag. Sticky calipers would create more drag then is necessary - you should now have that sorted out. Additionally, pads do need to be properly bedded to ensure good bite and no rotor warpage. You’ve got this...
She’s looking beautiful can’t wait to see all together ✈️✈️✈️👍🏻
Devin stepping up his game there. Great job developing and exposing the next generation
Sorry about the elevators... loved the clean look
Looks amazing .. the wings are the best feature for sure
Really great to see this progress.
Again an awesome vid, the progress is superb and I really can't wait to see this girl fly.
Happy birthday Devin! Keep up the great work, and I hope you have a great year.
Love watching the machine! But yes - time lapse is better :-) Seems like the pedals are sitting pretty low - I prefer to have the brake portion of the pedals being a lot closer to perpendicular to the floor than laid back, which means you could put a longer rod to avoid hitting the top of the pedal... And hope you have some inspiration before production to "fix" the elevators - sure would be a nice clean design with the rollers rather than hinges. Thanks so much for providing these videos as the work progresses - I know it's a bunch of extra work, but much appreciated!
Looks amazing!
Amazing job, as always
Awesome to see both wings on! Is it now a good time to check weight and balance compared to your predictions? You might be able to influence balance with other items that are yet to get a mounting location? Perhaps putting a scale under each tire...
How good is this? It’s pretty damn good, Peter.
I’m impressed at how fast your gear retract and extend! My Velocity is a much slower process. Don’t worry about red over red VASI you are going to have a much flatter approach without flaps. Nice flight congratulations.
keep fitting testing and modding pretty soon it will be done (nice work)
Team Raptor once again wonderful progress. If the biggest problem you have had were, doors , rudder pedal travel and a bell crank, I think your way ahead of the average bear. Well done sir. I agree with not giving up on the elevator design. Isn’t there a easier way to reduce the pushrod where it mounts? Interior pieces look spectacular. I want mine to have colored stitching to make them pop. Raptor blue to match the stripe .. keep up the good work.
IMHO... Red Stitching on Black always gives a hotrod look... My Dodge SRT is a good example.. :)
looking awesome.
Looking Great! Ive flown the Dragonfly and the Long EZ, in Hong that you're building this one with "Elbow Room", the others were claustrophobic. Also can you use a couple bras washers to space the control rod enough to stop the interference, or use square control rod material?
For the "fail" problem: Difficult to assess properly but what if you made a new upper plate that holds the rod end and make this one with a "Z" configuration that allows the rod end to be held at a higher position than before. Use spacers to take up the space below the rod end and other plate. Enlarge the holes in the wing ribs to allow a slightly higher position of the control rod.
Yes, there are all kinds of possible solutions but I need to get this thing flying and then work on them.
@@RaptorAircraft So we can assume that (a modification of the) original design will be used for production?
@@HansFranke if we can make it all work.
@@RaptorAircraft I perfectly understand that priority #1 at the moment is geting this bird to fly. Still, the very clean design is one of the great selling points.
@@HansFranke Agree. Hopefully this can be worked out in the future.
Show me the calculations in a calculated risk! No risk = No gain. Nothing is without risk - the plan is to reduce the risk as much as is possible and that means designing, testing redesigning and re testing - the high speed taxi trials and the strain gauge readouts and data and evaluation will provide lots of data to again make it as safe as possible . First few test flights will give lots more. But it sure looks like a great design to me.
At (@1:42 to @2:36) with the bellcrank "fail", your roller tracks were going to bind if you only applied force to one end of the elevator assembly. You were going to need to continue your push-pull rod to another bellcrank at the far end of the canard to provide an equal actuating force. Now, a continuous hinge will resist the twisting torque that the rollers would not have resisted. I personally prefer belt and suspenders for control surfaces but your repositioning of a central actuating rod should suffice.
Perhaps a great deal of thought was put into the roller assembly method. Perhaps not. If the tracks were fashioned to give you the effect of a Fowler flap elevator, you would have much greater pitch authority at lower speeds. Now, it will become a traditionally hinged elevator. Absolutely nothing wrong with that unless there were deeper reasons for using the roller tracks. Only you guys know.
One comment, though, from experience: when you see a design fault, try every way you can imagine to come up with some way to safely continue down the original design. As you've seen, one mistake driven change can cascade throughout an entire system with unforeseeable consequences. Change is not only the enemy of fabrication. It can result in functional questions you may not answer in time.
Fascinating project and great work. Having worked on experimental aircraft in the 1970s, it's a great pleasure to watch a group go through the same hair tearing pains in such detail. It means you're learning by doing in a way that has a life or death consequence: the best learning anyone can tackle.
Note, I'm assuming this is for the canard - Raptor's illustration shows a canard but you don't show a mounting space cut into the forward fuselage (yet?). If this bellcrank is for elerons on the wings, I would suggest you rethink abandoning the tracks. Haven't look at your design in enough detail to say for sure.
I know this is very late, but the brake pedal will not move that far when operated so this would not be an issue
Not quite sure I understand how the wheel covers are going to work... If you have time, maybe you could explain in a little more detail using your CAD.
Thanks, and excellent progress...
Mistakes happen, that's part of the engineering process. This is why there are prototypes! Great work on the rest of the plane though, it is looking amazing! I'm curious though, are you planning on redesigning the bell-crank system for production? Or are you going to stick with the hinges? Again, great work! Can't wait to see this beauty fly!
I'd like to make it work as originally intended but I can't afford to spend the time on it right now.
How about a fork at the end of the rod? The fork attaches to the outside of the bellcrank, no need to toss the design
Yeah, I'm already considering trying that but I still need to prove that the roller hinges will work smoothly before we start making holes in the spar. I'll find out on Monday.
Hi Peter, Have you considered leaving enough room to swap the engine out for a turbine or even a turbojet. Following the facts that fast aircraft are cheaper to operate - I wonder if you could design the aircraft to fly at say 500 kts using a jet engine? Or at least increasing the long distance cruise speed as much as possible. The exposed hinges on the canard really spoils the design, it mat be worth just taking some time and re design to make it work, we have waited this long, why bodge job it up now? Its looking great - love the gear doors.
Man if I had the money for a deposit I sure would put one down haha, this project just keeps getting better
Could you use a female rod end with a solid pushrod to allow clearance for your crank?
Looking good
@Raptor Aircraft
The roller hinge curved slots would be more stable if they weren't milled all the way through the aluminum plate. Some off-the-shelf cam followers might be more dependable as well.
Are there two rollers in the curved slot or one roller and a slide with a pivot? If there's two rollers in the slot, have you looked at using a separate slot for each of the two rollers? That would expand possibilities for the elevator path.
You could make the rods out of a tube with a larger O.D. but smaller cross selectional area and use taper swaging on the ends to reduce the end diameter so it doesn't interfere with the cranks. Alternatively, the rods could be much thinner if they were half the length and connected to intermediate dummy cranks.
...nothing has changed from day one, we all have our good day's and then we all have our bad day's and most still have more good than bad...
Could you consider making the end of the push/pull rod to the bellcrank a half circle which would give you the needed clearance.
Hi Peter,
Great to see your dream shaping up!
Did you think about placing some LEDS behind the panel ( for illumination of moving parts etc. )in the prototype? Your work is so detailed and tidy. It might be useful to be able to see or even film activations and travels of controls while flying. They could light the foot wells also.
Yeah, I've got loads of spare time. I'll get right on it. 😀
May be a small offset in the rod would work
Icing will be an issue with the hinges .
Peter, did you consider doing a half thickness mill for the throttle cover joint plate, this will give you a flat joint, unless your happy with it for now. :)
Happy for now. Can't waste too much time getting all these details perfect
Too early to ask , Will there be a certified version ? Always loved the canard / velocity kindof designs
You answered your question even before you asked it. You might be from the future. 😀
😆
Shorten the aluminium tube and use a longer connector to compensate. Should give more clearance. Possible?
Amazing progress Peter, I don't think the foreplane design is a total write-off tho, keep it in your box of tricks version 2.0, oh yeah Happy Birthday Devin
Looking good!
Question, would it be possible to use servos on the next one you build instead of rods and bell cranks? I know that some of the fighter aircraft do this as do some of the larger airliners. It would negate the need for the tight space maneuvering and fitment you are currently restrained by in the current configuration. You are doing a stupendous job on a remarkable design on an extremely tight budget. Go Get-em! Love your video updates. Thank you so much.
I don't quite understand why you can't just use a thinner diameter rod for the section of the pushrod that goes over the bellcrank... Am I missing something?
It would have to be less than half the thickness on each rod in order to not interfere with the bolt that is required to connect the rod end that goes out to the elevator. That simply would not be strong enough. Even if we used a clevis pin for the elevator connection we'd still have issues. The geometry is just not viable. It's because I did not take the time to model the rods when I did the design, mainly because I have too much on my plate. We will have another go at it later but I can't afford to have this slow us down at this point. I need to go with a known solution. The roller tracks are also an unknown so like any good pilot I'm changing course when I have two problems before the third one can bite me.
@@RaptorAircraft Does the rod out to the elevator need to be dead center? If not you could change the stack from 3 to 2 slots and relay the continuing rod to the next bellcrank from the same layer as the rod to the elevator. So top layer: rod to the right, bottom layer: rod to the left and rod out the back to the elevator?
@@martinrenschler4046 yeah but when you get to the next adjacent bell crank you end up with the same problem and there is not a solution. I have one other idea I'm looking at though.
Hopefully there will be an opportunity to revisit the roller hangers after the prototype is flying. Cheers!
@@RaptorAircraft Can you use a solid shaped piece of aluminum that is offset for clearance at the bell crank and then transition to the tube/rod? What tension/compression force do you need on the rod?
Peter please change the design of the canard. Change it into a delta shape such as is being used on the Saab Gripen. It should be a one piece unit where the entire unit will pivot up or down. The leading edge angle should match the leading edge angle of the outside portion of the wing. This is a much simpler design since there are no moving outside edges. The control is from inside the aircraft. Much better response. I send you a rough diagram at deposit time. Reservation # 1262.
Would electric gear , and wire and pulley system for flight controls not save weight on production model. Not trying to tell you how to build your plane but just wondering if there is any weight savings on one vs. other. Have been watching since day one and have really enjoyed the journey.
Can the bell crank be turned the other direction like the outer one? I was not able to see very well the positioning.
don't give up on the roller hinge...
For now we need to but we can try again after the prototype is flying.
Agree. I'm 1299 in line, hoping for redesign by then.
were does a person go to view the other vids?
What is the expected sale price for the Raptor?
Uh, is the elevator not fully rotating? Its fixed? If true, this will not work aerodynamically. Flaps on the elevator are fine for short take off, but otherwise stall. Massive massive problems. Why it has only been with the advent of computer control you can have canard layout. Unless you rotate the whole surface and have it stall before the main wing. Or this is going to be fly by wire for .... $130k... uh huh.
Arre these sensors realy connected via analogue amplifiers, long cables and multiple connectors and solderings? Wouldn't it be way less effort to give each sensor it's own MPU, digitizing the data right away and use stable serial (or USB) connection to transfer to the main system? Not to mention comparable and most reliable data without all the hassles of individual calibration of each connection?
This is a simple solution for a quick test. It's not worth spending more time to complicate the solution. No calibration is required other than quickly initially setting the zero point in the software.
@@RaptorAircraft 30+ years of building such stuff tells me otherwise. Using a little MCU and a little piece of software prevents many terrible nights of debugging real world installations. I'll be defintily watching the results.
Hello Hans, I am interested in this as I need a strain gauge for a bicycle power meter, what does mcu / mpu stand for and where should I start looking for suppliers and information?
@@gregarmstrong4653 MPU means Micro Processing Unit - MCU Micro Comuter Unit. It's about single chip computers like AVR, PIC or 8051. Nowadays these chips are rather powerful but cost only solwhere between 50 cent and 5 USD.
The whole issue is about digitizing data as soon as possible to get rid of all inluences wires themself, wirelength, connections and the environment has on an analogue signal. So by connecting any analogue sensor right away to a separate controller these influences are minimizes, as the controller takes the measurement independant and then communicates on a controlled digital line, making sure the data gets transfered unmodified.
The problem with analogue connections is that each and every wire acts as an antenna, capturing fields. As longer as more noise is caught. Similar each connection adds a resistance - together with the resistance of the wire itself (again higher with increased length) it decreases the signal to noise ration - making the reading harder. Also each conenction adds reflections of the signal, smearing the values.
While digital signals are ht by the same factors, they are mostly) imune, as their information isn't carried by voltage level or phase shift, but encoded on top of simple signal/no signal conditions. Further transfer can be guarded by security measures to detect mangled information - something (next to) impossible for analogue signals. It's this robustness why everything in our world switched for digital over the last decades.
And since all data is supposed to be handled by digital computers nowadays, conversion has to happen anyway, so make it as earl as possible.
Or from another viewpoint, it's about making analogue sensors digital right from the start.
I'm not sure if all of this is as important for a bicycle project, where there might be less connectors and way less wire length and everything (almost) stationary, than in a plane moving at high speed. It won't hurt either.
@@HansFranke makes sense, thank you. For me the solution must be lightweight and compact, I'm heading in the direction of Arduino nano ( unless you can suggest a better path). Its 30 years since I last stuck a strain gauge so things have moved on a bit since then.
Hi Peter, are you going to leave those hinges exposed or are you going to cover them up with some fairings?
Not sure yet.
Sorry if I insulted you but I tell it the way I see it or hear it. My arrogance is due to my having been a police officer. For that I make no apologies. That aside keep up the great work, it is of special interest to me.
Choice Bro'
Just have to most of that mill? I found your channel from that mill. I was going to make a 5 axis mill, but I just made a 3 axis for now.
I am sorry about the setbacks. The say that the devil is in the details. If for some reason the sliding joints don't work out, perhaps an unequal length 2-bar link might work.
Btw. You are going to make mistakes, and that's all there is to it. You just need to find them and fix them. You are an excellent engineer- designer- aerodynamic person.
You are too kind. Honestly this is truly my first rodeo and every day I'm learning something new. Just as well we have Jeff and Mark on the program. They've been rodeoing for years. I'm still just a clown.
@@RaptorAircraft , you've made at least .8 more airplanes than I have.
Just don't go crazy with the boost : )
As for the little ups and downs....
"You never know what can happen when you go to a square-dance."
-- From War of the Worlds, 1953.
Are you putting the straingages only to validate your calcs?
Just to see if there are any surprises.
Wings... chocks away... you can get it out right??..LOL
What is body made of ?)
Carbon fiber ?))
What is the weight ?)
Ick, I do DB9 pins too. Talk about annoying, I can only imagine you guys were using magnifying glasses, hoping to not screw it up LOL
The crimper tool makes it quick and easy.
Wait...what about the doors?
You need to come up with some new material. Your tried and true jokes are falling flat. 😂
Jim Morrison died some years back so, I don’t think there has been anything new with them...
I thought the prop was going to be controlled by the fadec. Is that just a manual overide or is the prop controlled manually?
I never said that. Presently it's constant speed and controlled by that controller.
@@RaptorAircraft my bad I must have misinterpreted something
Raptor Aircraft from the web site,
“The engine will be specifically modified for aviation. It will have a dual kevlar cogged belt driven PSRU to reduce the prop speed to about 2000rpm. It will have a single power lever, full fadec system. The fuel tanks will be heated using excess heat from the engine in order to prevent the diesel fuel from thickening due to the cold temperatures at altitude. If you're running Jet A the heating of the fuel will not generally be required.”
This could be confusing to some.
@@sailingbronco9869 well eventually it could be controlled by the ECU but not for the prototype.
Nooooooo! Please don't give up on the roller hinge. Spit balling here... Can you just turn them both around or use long steel custom made eye bolts that are thinner and longer, then shorten the Aluminum rods maybe? Or raise the rod up and top mount it to the bell crank, or use a curved bell crank that cuts out the part that rubs on the rod with just slightly longer threads sticking out of the rod? I hope you can get it to work.
As I've replied on other comments, we'll try after the prototype is flying
Does anyone have a handy Cessna 172 nearby? I’m really curious how their flaps work now with what I believe is a single rod in center.
Yes, they have a single rod but the flap doesn't get the use that our elevators will so it doesn't have to ride as smoothly.
Raptor Aircraft gotcha. As always, following this video series gives great insight into aircraft design. Thanks!
Esta vien perro cuanto cuesta
How do you get the funding for such a big project?
1 dollar at a time 😀
And deposits for production models from prospective buyers..
@@Pantherjonvideos all the deposits are in escrow, another thing that is amazing about this project. If for some very sad reason the project were not to succeed, we would all get our deposits back. Raptor must truly be the most open, honest, trustworthy aircraft manufacturer there is going.
There is absolutely no advantage/reason to place those GPS antenna on the top side of a non metallic dash cover.
carbon fiber Faraday cage
Yes, the carbon is very conductive and we have also added an aluminum plate of about 8 x 3 inches underneath to act as an additional ground plane.
i would suggest a smaller dameter rod.
,,, before you are a pilot, and still a taxi tester, be an engineer, and put an oil temp sensor in the re-drive, very near that thrust bearing. With the readout in a prominent location .
,,
,,, and speaking of temp sensors, you never want the Diesel fuel to go under 35 degrees F. Even in an unheated hangar .
The diesel sitting in the car in the parking lot gets colder than 35f every night lately.
@@RaptorAircraft ,,, If possible, I would not take a chance on any water freezing in this system, at any time, or altitude. Was thinking on a cold refuel, you would have to stay on the ramp until the return system warmed it up. Unless you wanted the complication of a tank heater. Btw, I think you are right. It's a huge amount on your plate. The Raptor is what, ten, maybe fifty times more complicated that a RV-10 kit, which is all I could handle, with the exception of an engine .
There's no water in this system. The engine cooling system is filled with coolant, not water.
@@RaptorAircraft ,,, strictly talking fuel. All gas, and alky contain some water. Also in moderate to high humidity the tank(s) will pull some water out of the air by condensation, especially with wide temperature variation . Your engine has some level of water separation already .
Roland Tamaccio, There are plenty of cold weather diesel treatments to prevent gelling and take care of water.
PROTOTYPE?!!!! I thought this was just a one off for yourself. Sorry I didn't know this earlier. I will do you a favor and not comment on your channel anymore lest they not want your product. Way too many areas that I could not let go by mate.
One final comment. Please do a GVT before you actually try to fly this thing and go over all systems with DAR.
1st
You need to lose the American accent as you are obviously an Aussie. American people think it is as funny that we Aussies try to copy the accent as we think it is funny that Americans try to copy our accent. So drop the accent.
FYI, I've been here for 25 years. This is how I speak! You're quite arrogant and rude imo.
1st
I think you were beaten by a minute