Operation Barbarossa Transport Vehicles and Logistics - WW2 Special
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- čas přidán 10. 06. 2020
- What good is your army if you can't supply it? As the German army prepares to invade the massive lands of the Soviet Union, it faces hefty production, logistical and supply challenges.
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Written and Hosted by: Indy Neidell
Director: Astrid Deinhard
Producers: Astrid Deinhard and Spartacus Olsson
Executive Producers: Astrid Deinhard, Indy Neidell, Spartacus Olsson, Bodo Rittenauer
Creative Producer: Joram Appel
Post-Production Director: Wieke Kapteijns
Research by: Indy Neidell
Edited by: Mikołaj Cackowski
Sound design: Marek Kamiński
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Sources:
IWM Q 7084, Q 9333, Q 7105, Q 5238
Narodowe Archiwum Cyfrowe
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from the Noun Project: Lorry by Andrew Cameron, Train by Cipto Nur Khoir, Train by priyanka, screws by Danil Polshin, screw by ibrandify, screw by DinosoftLab
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A TimeGhost chronological documentary produced by OnLion Entertainment GmbH.
Many think of World War Two as this modern, mechanised, fast-paced, mobile blitzkrieg war. But despite the flashy propaganda-films of soldier-filled trucks and tanks charging through big open fields in Eastern Europe, the German and Soviet War-effort heavily relied on horses. In fact, hundreds of thousands of horses were deployed in the German army on the forefront of Operation Barbarossa. Over 2,5 million horses would 'serve' in the German army in the entity of World War Two. Now, our entire channel relies on the hefty horsepower that our community we like to call the TimeGhost Army provides us with. Join the effort and support us on www.patreon.com/timeghosthistory or timeghost.tv!
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Yes actually there is a video of Military History Visualized that explains why the Blitzkrieg, isn't what many people think, very interesting, I recommend it!
As one who grown up on a farm with horses, cows and lots of other animals: using horses as transport is not straight forward. Not one bit. It takes planning and knowledge about the animals. In summer, they can graze. But grazing will not give a horse all the needed energy for pulling heavy loads day after day. So you need to transport grain for the animals, if you cannot be sure to find good quality grain on route. And even if conditions are ideal, your horse will need to rest between the stretch of work. Not hours, but days. And you will not get the supplies anywhere fast since a horse is basically as fast as a walking human when having serious loads behind them. Sure, you can ignore all this for a couple of days. Maybee even trasch the animals to work for a few weeks. But if you do not take care of the horse, its strength and abillity to work will decrease fast. And if you insist on pushing on, the horse will die. And if your horses start to die, then you have no means of transportation at all. You will be stuck. Also, do not imagine that a horse can pull anything like the weight a truck can handle. To replace 1 truck, you will need lots of horses with acompanioning humans. So no. Horses were not a good sollution.
I am surprised you guys didn’t mention that most of the Panzergrenadier units in France were just motorized units due to a lack of half-tracks.
@@RonaldReaganRocks1 While I agree that it was important, I wouldn't say critical for their victory. The main problem I have with the lend-lease argument is that during the hardest time of the USSR's war with Germany(1941-1943) the amount of lend-lease supplies that arrived was only a fraction of the total amount. "Only" 4 million tons worth of equipment and food was delivered in a 2 year period, in contrast in a 2 year period from 1943 to 1945 the allies delivered a total of 13 million tons worth of equipment&food. Moreover, the locomotives many claim the USSR couldn't have supplied its army without, were not supplied to the Red Army until July 1943, 2 whole years into the war.
@@erikgranqvist3680 All good points, but it was still a better option for the Germans at the time than trying to motorize more of their army. The whole reason they invaded in '41 was because the blockade was destroying their economy and if they didn't go then they wouldn't be able to - ever. Capturing the Soviets oil fields and grain supplies was the only hope they had left to win the war.
Our roads are crowded enough already. Pls, no Barbarossa.
Greetings, Slovenia
Though I imagine they would clear pretty damn quickly, if the rolling stock here were to be crushed by tanks.
@@diminios The ones comming from the north would arrive late... The border crossings from Austria to Slovenia have/had traffic jams in the last days that remind me of the 80's... (I remember the radio road info back then and now it often times sounds the same. I hear the names of broder crossings ai had already forgotten the names of) As a sidenote, if they would refill at gas stations on the highways in Austria, they also would be bancrupt before reaching Slovenia ;-) (The fuel price on them is around 40-50% higher than on normal stations)
@@nirfz Like they'd pay for the gas. I mean, you have a tank. Who's going to dare charge you, if you want to fill up? :D
@@diminios A few Leopard 2 A4's, Bofors AT Missiles and shoulder fired recoilless AT rifles? They are passing through a neutral country, and they better behave and pay, or get delayed even more...Maybe they would just take the money off bank accounts belonging to their leaders on austrian banks in exchange...(what could be a greater threat to them;-) )
@42 Dont forget Luka Doncic
I'm addicted to logistical history the same way Göring was addicted to morphine.
Omg, that was good!
"Look at history books the way Goering looked at roast beef" would make a great motivational poster.
I'm just addicted to both
Generals win battles logistics win wars.
It is the undersung hero of every war in history
As a truck driver, this is like a christmas present for me
Merry Christm...wait...uhm....
As I guy served as" 1/4 ton reconnaissance vehicle driver " I can relate
As a former Army mechanic, I feel their pain...
As a former logistics coordinator, I can relate.
As a spare part, this is like an antiChristmas present for me.
Operation Barbarossa named after a Holy Roman Emperor who fell off his horse and drowned in a river.
Nazi Germany drowned in the Vistula-Oder rivers.
Well everyone dies silly. It is just a coincidence.
@Mark Gaiennie at least Napoléon made it to Moscow...
@@hazzmati but the Russians burned it so it was a lose for both sides
@@hazzmati yah but he still took it so he technically he did more than Hitler in Russia
Another big logistics and supply line episode could be for the Allied armies after D-Day
What’s D-Day?
@@Masada1911 D-Day is just a name for the start of a big operation. Probably some failed landing in France like Gallipoli when Churchill is at the helm.
Agreed. Getting just a box of bullets from Oklahoma to the UK, then across the channel or over to Africa must have been a Herculean task
that is being covered by the channel RealEngineering very good channel and they made a series of it. episode 1 you can find it on youtube but the rest are in a webpage called nebula u have to sign up there.
@Amaze World actually it served a purpose. if the allies havent occupied north africa and then south italy following up with the d day for the soviets it would have been much more difficult to push the germans. had the german army all been focused on the east soviets couldnt have pushed inside germany
“Tactics is how you win battles, logistic is how you win wars”
The greatest military commanders of all time were logistical champions. Napoleon, Ulysses S. Grant, Julius Caesar, George C. Marshall.
Charles Burnham Arthur Wellsey As well
The whole peninsula campaign is him mastering logistics
@@Conn30Mtenor Dont forget Alexander the Great, the man stuck to the coastlines so much
@@Conn30Mtenor Really? Grant?
Yea
Hearing things like this, it amazes me the audacity of the Germans to think they could pull all of this off. People are always talking about their technical marvels, but they really seem to be just winging it most of the time, and putting glitzy technology ahead of the stuff that supports everything. I can imagine the thoughts of the economic minister when he was basically ignored. Logistics is just as important as tactics in any kind of large operation.
Just look at how the sovjets preformed in Finland. A slight breeze will knock it all over. Don't forget that the mighty german army destroyed the two most powerful Empires in the world in a matter of weeks.
@Paul Muggins Yup the Sun Gun
Wehraboos gonna wehraboo
@@mathy1799 The two most powerful Empires in the world? Defeated? They didn't even defeat the Dutch and French Empires themselves, the Far Eastern territories of those 2 countries were taken by the Japanese...still leaving French and Dutch territories in other parts of the world which were untouched. Presumably you mean the British and French Empires though...however the same happened with the British colonies in the Far East (HK, Malaya/SIngapore) but not British India (current-day Bangladesh, Pakistan & India), Burma was also not taken in it's entirety, and Germany did not even set foot in any British African colony except Egypt.
"an amateur studies tactics, a professional studies logistics"
You know I'm starting to think this Indy Guy might know more about what's going to happen in the war than he lets on.
He is getting prophecy from the brilliant generals Luigi Cadorna and Conrad von Hotzendorf via his haunted telephone
Are we sure Indy is not a spy?
It would be funny if Indy really didn't know.
You might think that but we couldn't possibly comment.
@Prussian Union I am the phone operator.
"So they could fill up, at roadside gas stations" IMagine being a frenshman, running one such gas station, you wake up early in the morning, hearing a sound. You stumble outside, wondering what it was and then there are freaking 4 german panzers sucking dry your station.
so in that situation, should i give them a discount?
@@rohitrai6187 I guess a loaded machine gun would do enough
@@rohitrai6187 No but they do get double Green Stamps.
If they pay for the fuel they are just customers.
Mon Dieu
Germany in ww1: let's not use cars because of a lack of rubber.
Germamy in ww2: let's use cars.
But we still lack rubber...
Germany in ww2: *let's use cars.*
@@krisfrederick5001 Now we use tanks!
But there's no fuel...
_T A N K S_
The Germans planned to use cars, trucks and tanks in order to archive a quick victory and avoid a long war that they could not win due to lack of rubber.
It was a high risk, high reward strategy that worked in France but failed in the USSR
Realkeepa 1991 you spoiler and how do you the barberossa invasion fails, you’re a psychic huh but also one other question what happens in 2020
@@Realkeepa-et9vo this is why Germany was really thankful when Japan lended imports of rubber through supply submarines, Germany tried to give the IJA a Tiger Tank to study with but the small submarine cargo they had to do piece by piece if i remember correctly
@@greyscaleb1537 Japan also had a makeshift ME262, forgot the name of it.
Nobody:
Some random guy somewhere: "I'm going to send 3 million men, 600'000 horses and tens of thousands of tanks and other vehicles through Slovenia just to prove Indy wrong"
Stupid military maneuvers near the Isonzo river? Sounds like something a reincarnation of Cadorna would do.
I bet its the Swiss, that's probably what they've been preparing for all this time.
As a Slovene i cant tell you, that our higways traffic already looks like there is one constant army moving trough the country.
@@Aakkosti Freaking 126th battle of Isonzo? What can go wrong.
SLOVENIA HAS RAISED A POINT OF ORDER
"I wont let economics get in the way of war goals"
I'm sure this strategy will produce good results, certain of it.
That thing about Halder not letting "economic considerations influence the operational direction" was a major splitting point between him and Hitler. Hitler wanted to go south to the oil fields to ease the fuel situation, while Halder wanted to win the battle in the field as quickly as possible. That's why he and other generals pushed to take Moscow in the first year, thinking it would end the fighting and the supply situation wouldn't matter as much. Their inability to understand that fighting wouldn't just be over if that happened was a major flaw in that idea.
The Germans went north instead of south because the roads were better in the north. Simple.
As Indy brilliantly pointed out in this video there is just no way they could have pulled off that campaign successfully. Even if they had gotten access to the oil fields, they had a rubber shortage, no way of sustaining repairs, no propper infrastructure for the vehicles to drive on in the USSR to begin with, plus the scorched earth strategy. It's just madness! So I guess their best bet was indeed to get Moscow. I would love to hear more about the generals who tried to talk Hitler out of it (if they weren't silenced).
@@elonmush4793
The south was where the oil, bread basket and resources were, but few roads. Moscow was a political target. Capturing it will not defeat an army in the field.
The only army you can defeat in the field will be in the north. North or south, you cannot win if your supply train is not up to it. The British generals in desert and Rommel were all caught out by outrunning the supply train. Montgomery fully understood supply.
@@elonmush4793 Stop with this "generals knew better but Hitler silenced them" line. That's something they made up after the war to pin all their failures on him rather than admit they were wrong too. Moscow wasn't their "best bet" and generals who pushed for that weren't "silenced." They wanted Moscow because as generals they were trained to win battles in the field on a tactical and operational level. They knew little about strategic goals or resource management. Simply driving to the capital and not capturing needed supplies in the hope that the enemy will just quit is not a strategy.
It’s debatable whether getting Moscow would have been a knockout blow, however Stalin was very stubborn and supposedly planned to remain in the city if it was captured and die a hero as his country fended for itself. A lot of this may have been propaganda, Stalin supposedly turned away the last train out from the city, as all further trains were bringing red army troops. Stalin thought that it was very important propaganda for him to be in his bomb shelter with the people, and Stalin even spent a few nights with the people themselves (no doubt more terrified of him than the bombing) down in the subway. Whether Stalin would actually have remained in the Kremlin had the Russians gotten pushed from the city, we will never know
I was expecting a special tie, and you guys did not disappoint. 4/5
Tempted to bump this up to a 4.5. I'll open this one up to feedback from the community
Gianni Verschueren we aim to please!
@@spartacus-olsson Your aim was on point!
@@spartacus-olsson We need to bump it up a knotch- A special suit next time
You forgot how well the lighting fell on the tie
“The line between disorder and order lies in logistics…” - Sun Tzu
One of the captured German generals held at Trent Park and who were secretly recorded blamed the failures on the eastern front on the fact that four different companies produced their vehicles none of which had inter-changeable parts whereas the Russians were by then using Studebakers whose parts were usually interchangeable no matter the size of the vehicles involved. The Russians could cannibalise to keep things moving, the Germans couldn't and slowly ground to a halt.
I'm positive that was sarcasm at 0:37 but really, I now have a logistics fetish and you can bet I'm damn excited for motor vehicles.
Damn right Sakurajima-senpai, logistics is everithing uwu
So glad I'm not the only one :)
I love this “present tense” kind of historical presentation. ..
Thanks! We call it history in realtime!
"Grow up it'll take you 40 seconds to learn how to convert them."
It's true, but man... That hurts..
Indy anticipating the butt-hurt in the comments section like an absolute boss.
*laughs in British*
Laughs in metric
naah, use metric like a man
It's always sad to see the state of education of metric-taught peoples unable to convert anything unless it involves just moving the decimal position. Managing workdays with time units must be horrible, with all the 60s and 24s and such. (This is clearly trolling, I love using metric. But all the folks constantly asking for metric units, you had it coming.)
A friend who currently lives in Russia told me that Germany lost over 100,000 vehicles of all types on the Eastern Front to one single cause - the Russian Spring Thaw. I remember my grandfather telling me about having to abandon his Tiger because it was irretrievably mired in mud in what was once being passed off as a road.
Who knows - one day it might be dug out of the ground and turned into a museum exhibit.
"Yes, I'm mixing miles and kilometers. It will take you 40 seconds to learn how to convert them. Grow up." - Andy
The best thing you've ever said...
Or the worst: it's actually rather rude.
@@SNOUPS4 grow up
Something that us Brits do all the time😊 Maps are in kilometres, roads are in miles and It's all fine. I've still no idea what a Fahrenheit is though.
anyone else hearing the "low supply" alert from HoI4?
Ahh the fun of HOI4 logistics. 10/10 infrastructure at my back, step 1 foot into the next province. Out of supply!!! Tanks are magically detonating, equipment losses so high 50+ factories can't keep up, and yet I have no way to build infrastructure until we take the next province...
The lighting on the last couple of episodes has been really great!
Well is it the light, or is Indy dying his hair?
@@aaronwalters1569 Let's just say this much; Indy has not dyed his hair.
Reminds me of colorized B&W footage.
Having been invaded by Napoleon, both Spain and Russia made sure the gauges of their railways were incompatible with those of the rest of Europe. Great show, I have recommended your show to another WWII buff.
Russia chose it's railway gauge simply because it was one of several gauges that countries were choosing for their railroads
(The Russian gauge was in widespread use in the pre-civil war US south)
The difficulty of differing gauges cut both ways as well when Russia tried and failed to invade Germany in 1914,
and 1941 the wider gauge was only the tip of the iceberg of issues the Germans faced trying to make Soviet railways work with
German supply trains.
I was a US Infantry officer and had always heard "Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics."
I've always wanted to learn more about the logistics behind Barbarossa. Can't wait to hear more.
The Germans assumed the campaign would be over in months. Most people like me think all you have to do is get your Army together and attack. The logistics of an attack like this is totally mind-boggling. Thank you I actually learned something today.
For the Germans, the war had gained a life of its own, it had become an unstoppable train that just kept going, no matter how futile some of the smarter minds among the German generals knew it all to be. This is what the economic analysis of the Third Reich said on the channel some time ago. It must have been quite horrible for those smarter generals to know the outcome from the beginning, yet still have no choice but to proceed.
“Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics” -Von Clausewitz
Can you cite a source for this quote? The closest von Clausewitz quote (translated into English) that I could find is "There is nothing more common than to find considerations of supply affecting the strategic lines of a campaign and a war." As far as I am able to determine, this quote should be attributed to Gen. Robert H. Barrow, USMC
I find it interesting that the myth of the highly mechanized Wehrmacht persists in the public mind to this day. Only about 10% of the Heer was fully motorized.
@@RonaldReaganRocks1 Pretty much the entire American force was fully motorized.
I've seen some interviews with (spoilers) American and British troops on the Western Front that were _shocked_ by the number of dead horses lying around
I’ve heard an anecdote of a German scout sent to count the horses of the D-Day landings to estimate the amount of forces the Americans were going to land. The guy realized Germany had lost the war when he counted zero horses but saw countless trucks.
@@RonaldReaganRocks1 The US had the first, and for pretty much all of WW2 only, fully mechanized army. The Brits come in at a distant second, and much of that is due to the US picking up the slack and then some. The fact that the US had the highest civilian motorization ratio in the world by a significant margin didn't hurt, especially when you take into account their larger population. IIRC France and Britain were 4:1, with Germany 20:1, meanwhile for every two Americans there was a car.
The US Army was pretty much 100% mechanised, and the British Army wasn't far behind. In practise that meant that once the allied armies broke out of the Normandy bridgehead and onto the open plains it was game over for the Germans. It just didn't matter how good their divisions were or how many of them they had - the allies could literally run rings around them with their superior speed and maneuverability. Cut them off, encircle them and they're dead. At that point the Germans could either withdraw to a static defensible position (the Westwall/Hindenburg line) or surrender. Any attempt to stand and fight or engage in a war of maneuver (Blitzkrieg) was doomed.
This in part explains why they fortified the Atlantic coastline so much as well. They knew that the key to defeating any invasion was on the beach or counterattack the bridgehead. Because once those forces broke out...game over.
In some ways this is the most important video on the channel, if you think about it!
This and the ones where he explained how Blitzkrieg strategy made the Nazis so succesful on the battlefield in the first place.
he said "i do not know"so many times, that something tells me that he does know
The tracks on tanks wear out quickly and they require constant maintenance. Loading them up with stores and towing a heavily loaded trailer will make things worse.
Germans must've loved organizing all that equipment and maintenance. It's like pastime for them.
At about 9:16 it looks like a supply depot attached to a railhead in the Army Group South area. German officers and/or NCOs are supervising, while the grunt work of loading is performed by Romanian supply troops.
@ Umm you know Germans don't have that in their genes, right? You don't just inherit the attention to detail from your mother's side. It's a cultural thing you experience while growing up in that country or maybe from observing your parents. And I'll just ignore how blatantly wrong your last sentence is.
@ not to burst your buble, but it was Austria who started the first World War
Yes, but it does no good if the people at the top refuse to listen to the experts.
Yes, and fortunately they treated logistics like a pastime rather than a profession.
11:36 These are great clips. It's mind boggling to think about just driving along or standing on the sidewalk as German tanks go by to fuel up at the nearest gas station.
Did they get Slush Puppy or a Slurpy to ?
@@bobsmoth-iv3sp They got what they were used to:_*FANTA*_ to go. . . *;-)*
2000 type of vehicles, in a war, where the total number was below a million (way below), so on average, each vehicle has only 500 piece. That is a logistic nightmare, it is even a miracle they managed to do what they did with this supply system.
"German trucks"? Feed it grass/fodder, lead it to water, and add "1 horsepower" units as necessary. "Giddy up, Ursula!"
You had horses, what were you thinking?
That's enough, Webster!
They had no fuel or rubber for trucks
Man, that was a great program. It was the only time in my 30 years as a police officer that I got home in time, just to watch it. The few times I wasn't able to, my wife had it recorded for me.
Well, in the beginning of the war all mass armies had lots of horses. Soviet Union still had too in 1945. On the Eastern Front in rainy and snowy conditions trucks were pretty useless anyway because of bad infrastructure (roads were often not paved but just dust roads). And trucks could not be eaten. Never mind the oil supply. Mass motorization was not an option for the German army.
horses need feeding too. and many other things besides
As a history buff since age 9 ..im still learning at 59..this series is very well done and i look forward to each week..thanks guys
You are very welcome. And thanks to you for watching us.
June 12, 2020----Got into modeling 40 some years ago and was shocked in how unprepared Germany actually was transportation wise. Thing is, the same could be said of the Japanese and Italians.
Romania transport vehicles furing Operation Barbarossa:
On feet soldiers we don't have vehicules
Lol, the Romainians were like "we don't have roads at home either, don't see what the big deal is..."
@@Raskolnikov70 many of romanian peasents don't have money to buy shoes in those times
@@romaniacountryball Why did the Iron Guard support barbarossa then? Surely with their situation being even worse than Germany's, the population couldn't have seen an invasion of ALL OF NORTHERN ASIA as a good thing.
@@Inoffensive_name The Iron Guard was no longer in control of Romania in June 1941. The dictator Antonescu eliminated the Iron Guard in January 1941. Antonescu wanted to retake the Romanian lands of Bessarabia and northern Bukovina occupied by the USSR in 1940.
@@dragosstanciu9866 OH RIGHT. I forgot about Bessarabia. Why not pull a Finland then, and stop at the reclaimed territory?
Who would have thought that all of that documentary footage of the Germans advancing with tanks, trucks and motorcycles was.... propaganda! They were so successful at showcasing their best equipment that most of us took it for granted that the Wehrmacht was fully mechanized.
There is lots of footage with horse drawn equipment, including German ww2 newsreel
Who needs the History Channel (whatever history is on it) with a channel like this?
This highlights the enormous value that Lend Lease assets had in the opening stages of the war on the Eastern Front. We always want to talk tanks, guns and planes, but to understand the Eastern Front, we need to have a very solid grasp on motorized transport. Transport trucks, tractors, prime movers, utility vehicles and troop transports are absolutely essential and any Soviet machine with wheels and an engine that wasn’t smoldering ash was absorbed the second it was captured in Barbarossa. Now we see why. They’re up there with gasoline, ammunition, food and armor. That rail gauge and sabotage point will become...more than a just a small problem I predict.
Bernard and TIK would be proud
Gurgul
who's Bernard?
@@user-lq5yx1ke5k Military History Visualized
TIK's research on the logistics side of things has been amazing. Once you start to realize how much of the military decision-making was due to the German logistics situation, it changes how you look at the whole war.
@@Raskolnikov70 too bad TIK has no clue about politics and constantly puts misinformation in his videos about politics of ww2.
Thanks for mentioning my tiny country. 🇸🇮
More roads than Russian. XD
Nice country
@42 Sniff Sniff
Halder’s determination to not allow economic considerations influence operations speaks volumes in explaining the German’s single minded focus on Moskow, which the Russians were fully prepared to vacate, as they had done in 1812. Oil supplies should have been the target for 1941.
I love your presentations. Our schools are in need of teachers who have been trained to make subjects interesting.
Thank you!
Good story; poor logistics was after all one of the key weaknesses of the Germans, and the fact they wouldn't listen to their logisticians is telling to their final defeat.
I almost expected a collaboration video with Military History Visualized!
As did I. He is the natural choice here, and I think they're even talked about collaborating before.
And TIK. He has done some very good research on the economic and oil situations in nazi Germany. If you're interested in this sort of thing I heartily suggest watching Tik's videos.
@@billd.iniowa2263 as apo kos said, he did do some good work, but the absolute bollocks he's peddled in the politics side is the nail in the coffin.
@@Alex-cw3rz He's doing a great series on the Stalangrad Campaign and no politics in it. As to politics, it is sometimes usefull to have a different POV even if you don't agree with it.
the problem is that he can't accept he's wrong on that subject and I think it affect the credibility of all of his older video
My late father-in-law was a feldwebel infantry man in the German army & took part in Operation Barbarossa. When he was in a talkative mood he would relate certain events that occurred during his march towards Leningrad and in particular the fact that he and his men virtually walked all the way through Lithuania, Latvia & Estonia because of the lack of motorized transport. As he had grown up on a farm & could ride horses he occasionally had the task of riding out on reconnaissance patrols to scout out the Russian's presence. He said he was fired on many times but always managed to get away safely.
I asked him whether he had seen any German tanks in action but he replied that the only tanks he ever saw where small Russian ones which the anti tank gunners were able to dispose of in short time. This would seem to bear out the fact that the Panzer Divisions were well in advance of the infantry for most of the way to Leningrad.
My in-law was in charge of a machine gun section consisting of 3 MG1934 LMG's which could also be used for anti aircraft use if necessary. He may have had the distinction of being one of the first German soldiers to reach the outskirts of Leningrad & told me how he had set up the guns to cover the end terminus of the tram system leading to that particular suburb, and waited for a tram full of Russian troops to arrive and offload. All that he would comment on that action to me was "Can't you imagine what crossfire from 3 machine guns would do?"
Off course the Germans never took Leningrad and a few days after this action my in-law was wounded in the wrist & across the stomach by a bullet & sent home for medical treatment. He said that by that time he and 2 others were the only original ones left in the platoon, all the remainder having been killed or wounded. He said that everything on the move during that campaign was horse drawn, which of course meant the animals feed had to be included.
Its amazing at how much the Germans achieved with the resources they had in their 1939-1941 operations. The logistical nightmare of the trucks basically meant they would use them till the truck basically was inoperable and left where it broke in Russia from one of the books I read for Barbarossa.
- "No one is planning on sending 3million men and thousands of panzers into Slovenia"
- Rest of EU: "We are not?!"
*disappointedly puts Leopard 2 back into garage*
Future shock - June 22, 2020 - the world holds its breath as the invasion of Slovenia begins.
@@stevekaczynski3793 I hope not, I've been stuck in Slovenia, because of the pandemic. I do not need an army invading as well 🤣
@@nikolavideomakerI wish I was stuck in one of the most beautiful places on Earth. Glad you’re out now haha
Amateurs study tactics,” goes an old saying, “armchair generals study strategy, but professionals study logistics. Uncle Joe Stalin loved the 400,000 Studebaker trucks sent by FDR.
@@narancauk It certainly helped greatly later in the war; eg the crushing victory of Bagration in 1944 depended on them. But in 41 and 42 the Russians really did do it all on their own.
Those Western supplies did help significantly in turning the tide in the Eastern front, tho. Especially trucks, trains and locomotives.
The German military were great experts in many technical fields and I'm quite sure their logistics people understood the complementary roles of rail and road transport. Rail carries very large tonnages of men, materiel and supplies over long distances of many hundreds of miles efficiently to a specific rail head. Road transport can disperse this cargo efficiently to diverse locations quickly and efficiently over short to medium (quite long) distances. All these forms of transport are dependent on the level of development, state of maintenance, and density of the existing infrastructure; rails, railheads, roads etc. It is not about roads versus rails, it is about optimising logistics by integrating the two correctly.
"I cannot see the future"
honestly all they have to do is kick the door down and the whole purged structure will fall, how hard could it be ;)
Can you cover basic training during the Second World War ?
In Soviet army it was really basic - just 2 weeks to learn how to shoot and throw a grenade? No tactics and no learning. At the same time infantry men usually were on a frontline for a few days - then usually wounded or killed, so it was pretty much pointless to teach them a lot of stuff.
@@spqr1945 yet this is true but also very sad
@ germans had very tough training, so tough that had certain percentage of deaths during a training. But with high losses on the Eastern front they made training shorter and shorter, so newly arrived replacements were trained pretty bad.
stan broniszewski it had to be both mentally and physically tougher as because as far as I know boot camp for them was only 7 weeks .
@Joakim von Anka still not as much as Vietnam though
"I don't know what the hell this logistics is that Marshall is always talking about, but I want some of it." - Admiral King
My understanding of everytime Russia gets invaded. It's not so much "Gen. Winter" that always seems to get the credit, that defeats an invading army, but the logistical SNAFU the invaders have to deal with.
It was logistics that helped defeat the Teutonic Order.
It was logistics that beat King Charles XII of Sweden.
It was logistics that beat Napoleon I of France
It will be logistics that defeats Hitler's Germany.
Im studying Logistics at uni (writing bachelor´s in next semester), and Im glad we got some coverage. Word logistics came from ancient Greek and basically encompassed basics of what the definition stands for today. Still very underestimated side of the war that can easily turn the tide of entire war if not taken care of properly.
Frank Zappa is one of the greatest musicians/composers of all time!
Thank you, I was hoping someone would answer this question. RIP Mr. Zappa...
Great video! I feel like supply and logistics are not talked about enough in general in war documentaries. It would be great if you could have a logistics special every couple of months throughout the eastern Europe campaign to illustrate how the situation changes and how both belligerents deal with the supply and logistics issues.
I love seeing how happy Indy looks; he looks like he's having such a blast making this series
Try to imagine Hans Moleman presenting the series.
Meanwhile, Spartacus looks depressed when making WAH series
@@HWDragonborn Well I don't blame him, with the subjects he covers, anyone would despair.
That's my great-uncle's battalion at 0:51, the 29th Australians, from western Victoria, in the Battle of Amiens in northern France in 1918
it's a miracle the germans got as far as they did with all these issues.
Your enthusiasm for this subject is absolutely infectious. Kudos to you for making these very informative and entertaining videos!!!
Thank you
The topic of transports and logistics in war is NOT boring and as always, you guys are doing a great job. I think that I have studied a fair share about military logistics throughout the years and there is still so much to learn, including about logistics on the Eastern Front that I study more than any other topic in military history. In my personal opinion, transport and logistics tells about 50 % of the story of any war that last for more than a day and counting from the Stone Age until today. It is still because of its supposed "dullness", the most understudied aspect of war.
Keep up the good work Indy Neidell and all you others!
The Germans planed operation Barbarossa as the same style of the French Campaign during 1940. The problem was distances were very short in the West than the east. Now German supply lines will soon overextended themselves to the limit. To me I think the Germans were good at a tactical level but for logistics it was a nightmare for them.
The problem with the German generals is this: they see this war only as a tactical and operational struggle. Generals like Guderian, and Halder don't care for the grand stradegic dimension of the conflict. This has worked pretty well for the Germans thus far in campaings of small distances, I wonder what will happen on the eastern front, with massive distances and fuel supplies running low for the wehrmacht.
Remember if your country is going to war standardize every thing, doesn't have to be the best equipment but if it is reliable and replaceable then you can atleast fight for a long time
To use one example - this is why the US Army depended on the M4 Sherman for as long as they did. Even though it was heavily criticized and practically obsolete from the beginning of the US entry into the war, it was a solid and reliable design. It was small & light enough to be shipped overseas in large numbers and US industry could produce thousands of them rapidly. Who was it that said "quantity has a quality all its own"?
@@Raskolnikov70 exactly not the top of the line in technology or performance but much easier to maintain or replace, as well good when supporting infantry and decent to fight other tanks or assault guns at 400-300ish meters.
@@Raskolnikov70 I think it was Stalin but he may have been quoting Napoleon.
@@Raskolnikov70 Calling the Sherman obsolete from the beginning is a bit harsh. It matched the majority of German tanks for most of the war. It was only when they got to Normandy and came up against Tiger and Panthers in larger number than they ever had before that its shortcomings really started to show. Granted that there was a degree of complacency that meant their was no great hurry to upgrade the Sherman even though they had the means to produce the 76mm varients quite early.
@@Blazcowitz1943 I'm not saying it was a bad tank at all, just that by the time the US was entering the war the knowledge and experience of tank designers had advanced due to the real-world testing (aka actual combat taking place overseas) they could draw on. They could have easily designed and produced better tank than the M4 but the logistics argument won out - it was a better use of limited resources and transport capability to keep churning out Shermans. The end result of that decision was more firepower in the field where it was needed.
13:22 Don't worry, I have the gist of it. Couple of years before I was born that Australia converted from imperial to metric and I can mostly understand. A mile is 1.60 Km, hectare is 2.6 acres.
That comparison to Slovenia really brought it into perspective.
"YOU HAVE HORSES! WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?"
"SAY HELLO TO FORD!... AND GENERAL-FUCKING-MOTORS!"
Horses require a lot of work, ask me how I know this. Horses also break down and quit working too. I would much rather rely upon trucks like a 2.5 ton US Army.
As someone who uses both miles and kilometers, I had to like this after the joke about people needing to grow up on learning to convert them XD
Agreed. I live in the States, I just google if I need to convert. “X mi to km” or vice versa and get my answer in less than 1 second. Modern problems require modern solutions!
As a science teacher during my first year (1973) I had to teach my students the metric system. Some of them still couldn't figure out how to move a decimal point, though it's a lot easier than figuring out inches, feet, yards, chains, furlongs, etc. I have little difficulty in converting from one system to the other, but in this USA I'm afraid I am in the minority when it comes to comparing miles/gal. to km/liter. I remember one of the textbook questions I saw was, "When the US goes to the metric system, will the price of gasiline go up or down?" The answer expected, of course, was "down," since the metric units (liters) are smaller than english system (gallons). My answer, though, was (still is, since we haven't officially switched systems) "Up," Obviously. The oil companies will take full advantage of the general ignorance of the comparative volumes and will raise the cost of the equal volumes in order to raise their own profit.
@@nomobobby seriously?you just don't, like, get a broad idea in your head,, like 50m - 80 km or something?
Jochen Vollert, in his book 'British Military Trucks in Wehrmacht Service', quotes a figure of 15,000 British trucks and lorries captured by Germany, in France and Belgium, in 1940. Most of these were added to the Wehrmacht inventory in time for Barbarossa.
Re. Barbarossa, Vollert reports that by the winter of 1941/2, Germany had lost in Russia 22k motorcycles, 18k cars, and 31k trucks!!
British trucks and lorries were valued by the Wehrmacht as they were specifically built for military service, with deep tread military tyres. German trucks were often civilian - spec vehicles painted grey.
From the sheer variety of vehicles they were using, it sounds like the Germans didn't even have an organized purchasing program for vehicles, much less made any attempt to design and build standardized military trucks. The ability of the US to build and ship so many trucks to their allies was probably the biggest advantage any side had during the entire war, and it's totally underrated.
@@Raskolnikov70 That, plus the fuel needed to run the things
A triumph, thank you Indy. I know a fair bit about this topic from casual interest in the history over the last few decades, but I learned a lot more today. And... ‘grow up’. Absolutely perfect for our current discourse and social media in general. I’m still smiling when I think of it.
I gotta say it: I am absolutely looking forward to seeing you guys cover the war on the eastern front. All they told me about it in school was three sentences peppered with the words "Stalin", "Moscow" and "Stalingrad"... I've managed to educate myself since then, but the role Russia played in bringing down Nazi-Germany is still largely lost on the general public.
Answer:
Frank Zappa is one of my favorite musicians 🙂
Entire books have been written about logistics and supply during Operation Barbarossa. It's amazing that Germany managed to stave off defeat for so long, even after Stalingrad. German and Russian railroads differed in gauge, as the video mentions. However, that obstacle was overcome rather quickly by converting Russian tracks. The real problem with the rail system in the Soviet Union was that it was single track everywhere. Thus bottlenecks of men and materiel sent east by rail were often and serious. Moreover, wounded German soldiers encountered bottlenecks on the way back to Germany. Had the U.S.S.R. had a two-track system, Germany would have been resupplied much more handily.
Well said: this is a channel for adults, and beyond the abilities of anyone who can't recon that sixty miles is about a hundred kilometers.
But its frustrating to the rest of the world that only the Americans persist with using an awkward and impractical system that is 2000 years old. Especially when you compare it with the simple and easy system of measurements that every other country uses. As people in my country tend to say, "bloody Septics", which confuses Americans because they don't understand rhyming slang.
@@Dave_Sisson I thought the British condescending term du jour was "colonials"
@@thebog11 Ah, but it's the Australians and New Zealanders who use the term Septic Tank to rhyme with Yank, although the descriptor 'Septic' is often changed to Seppo which distances it still further from 'Yank'.
@@Dave_Sisson I see, did not know cockney rhyming slang was a thing there
62 miles actually🙂. A kilometer is
.62 statute miles.
"Amateurs study tactics. Professionals study logistics."
I've always said that there are only two branches of military service: Infantry and various flavors of Support. And far and away the MOST important form of Support are those folks what bring the bullets, boots, and beans up and the casualties back. And I say that as a proud cavalryman. You can't win shit if you don't have enough water, you know?
@@KnightofAges Shhh, you'll trigger the Soviet fanboys who think that Soviet Union won the war single handedly by throwing men at the Germans
@@KnightofAges I disagree. Barbarossa *could have* been successful, but several key mistakes by the Germans prevented it. For example the six weeks spent bailing Mussolini's ass out of his Balkan debacle were absolutely vital, not only in time but in wear and tear on the men, vehicles, and fuel supply. The weeks wasted by Army Group Center when the panzers were shifted South was also a major blunder that had absolutely nothing to do with Dodge trucks and Lee tanks.
@@erwin669 Everybody runs out of people if you keep charging machine guns.
By '45 the Soviets were nearing the end of their manpower pool. They were, for example, promoting Mongolians to colonel and that would NEVER have happened in 1939 [other than the odd token promotion for the 'Soviet solidarity' propaganda stunt]. Meanwhile the Germans had completely run out, as had the British. America hadn't, but we were expecting Stalingrad level casualties in Operations Coronet and Downfall, the invasion of the Japanese Home Islands.
@@KnightofAges well, when Poles were in Moscow Russians wanted their prince to become a Czar so I guess it's like surrendering
"Logistics is the ball and chain of armored warfare.
" Heinz Guderian
Frank Zappa Los Angeles CA based bandleader, thought rebel, songwriter, family man, the breath of fresh air to millions of teens throughout the 70s. Known for his quirky musical style and elaborate musical productions, in later years worked producing with orchestras and other non rocknroll roll partners. His eloquent interviews are still with us and the ever relevant advice to not eat yellow snow!
"And no one is planning on sending 3 million men, 600 thousand horses and tens of thousands of tanks and other vehicals on to the Slovenian Roads"
Me in my HOI 4 game: *Gulp*
My country of YU when I was born : Hold my beer
The improved lightning, camera position, and of course your new outfit makes the series even more perfect
Thanks! Sparty and Astrid spent a long time working on it so good to hear peoples appreciation
13:18 That imperial system burn was nice.
These are always great, but Indy's "grow up", and "who is" remarks are just priceless!
Small style point. I think a better line would have been. "I know I'm mixing miles and kilometers but then again, so were the Allies."
Just watch the fuel gauge, that is what really matters! :)
13:16 Nice bluff Indy, but it won't work. We're not falling for that one again. You will find our roads built in such a way that they produce huge bottlenecks of trafic and are thus very resistant to invasions.
I've rewatched this several times. It is a journey into the core of the issue. Well done.
Frank Zappa was a self-taught rock musician who later in life composed modern-day orchestral music. He spent 60's-70's touring and making records playing what was dubbed "comedy music" by some - and some works were hilarious, but almost all thought provoking. I saw him with his band The Mothers of Invention in Houston. I sorely miss Frank and true innovators like him.
600,000 vehicles and 600,000 - 750,000 horses.
Yes
For many years history books published photos of the German steel machines in action. As we got into the 1980's film started showing up on cable TV. That's when I saw how many horses Germany used. I remember thinking "No wonder they lost the war". It was like WW1 logistics except more horses.
We complain about the exhaust produced by motor vehicles, and it is very problematical. But imagine the effluent produced by those horses. It doesn't disappear into the atmosphere and it smells worse than gas or diesel fumes. (It can, of course, be used to help grow the vegetables.)
Frank Zappa was a Genius, Indy.
@ that's awesome man, Frank actually passed a couple years before I was born but my uncles loved him and I particularly enjoy the stuff he did with Steve Vai
This video needs to be required material before anyone watches the Barbarossa campaign. The lack of motorization and especially fuel made Germany a low stamina fighter. If you could drag out the conflict they'd surely lose and traveling deep into Russia against a determined enemy was obviously bound to take a long long time.
Thank you Indy. I've been watching your show for years. The 'grow up and do the conversion' comment was just absolutely the best
Excited to see the analysis on today's fashion choices.
"Could it get more exciting ... I don't think so". You instantly got my like, subscribe, money, etc etc ;)
Awesome, welcome!
Very grateful for you and your team, Indy. I am a longtime history buff, especially military history. Thank you much!
Congrats with thanks for this unique series that sheds a new light and a fresh perspective on the events of WW II. Top notch + thumbs up!
Which version of Guderian's book are you quoting at 10:30 ? He changed quite a lot of stuff in the book after the war.