Mace Tyrell Is A Mastermind
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- čas přidán 14. 04. 2024
- In today's video, we delve deep into the character of Mace Tyrell and uncover the genius behind his seemingly foolish persona. From his strategic decisions during times of conflict to his calculated alliances for the protection of House Tyrell, Mace proves to be a mastermind playing the Game of Thrones in his own unique way. Join us as we dissect the misconceptions surrounding Mace and shed light on his true abilities. Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more analysis and theories from the world of "A Song of Ice and Fire". See you next time!
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The show portrayal was PERFECT!! He played the oaf just like Pycell played the sickly old man. Genius!!
MACE THE ACE BABY WHHHHOOOOOHHHH
The Tyrell’s are definitely the most interesting and sneaky houses in the books wish we got atleast one pov from them
ENOUGH WITH THE AI VOICES. GET A MIC
for real, it makes me wonder if the scripts are AI generated too
Actualy it sounds more human than many othe creators live
Maybe they are disabled and can't speak. or even deaf....like you
If you don't like it, leave.
But you heard him
I think your right. Thought that before I even watched this. But you really drove it home now
What the show did to Lord Tyrell was ridiculous. They took it way too far. In the books he’s an astute, ambitious and powerful Lord and is not at all stupid. He has Margery presented to joffrey for a possible bride and when Joff accepts he has Ser Loras ask to join the kings guard because they have heard about Joffs cruelty and he wants Ser Loras there to protect her. Not the moves of an idiot. He’s playing the game of thrones like everyone else.
Exactly
He’s a genius for listening to his mother.
In the book Mace has never struck me as stupid. He's certainly ambitious for his family and wanting to secure a stronger power base for House Tyrell. He's not a genius but I don't think he's as dumb some think he is.
I've been saying this for a few months re:unreliable narrators. ALL narrators think he's an idiot...so he's not. Ty for the content!
It is very clear the Tyrells were did dirty by Dumber and Dumbest...
Mace is a genius!
Gotta love mace Tyrell!
Robert did not take the iron throne "because he won the war". It was decided Robert had the better claim because he had the closest Targaryen ancestry. No one else, not even Ned, could put forth a better argument than that which is why even though the Stark deaths started the war, Robert took the throne. So, to say no one cared about claims is nuts. The Reach supported Renly because he was close to Loras, yes, but Stannis never even had a chance to make a claim before the Lannisters started plotting, he was on Dragonstone (ring any bells?) when he received the raven from Ned about Joffrey's lineage and by that time it was too late. The men of the reach were fickle in their desires. If Stannis was paying more attention to the goings on with his brother, paying attention to the things Ned was investigating, and he was in KL when Robert passed, easily the claim would have been strongest for Stannis, not Renly, despite how much people disliked him.
The people start calling Robert king after he won the battle of Gull Town , nobody who was there know about his dragon grandma
If they care about claims , they would have put Rhaegar or Viserys ( hot gold face ) on the throne
@@flavius5722 Well yeah it was called Robert's Rebellion not The Stark Rebellion or the Aryn or Tully Rebellion. I find it hard to believe that none of the lords there knew of the Baratheon lineage when they make such a big deal about whose family came from kings and whatnot. That was the reason he later sat the throne because Rhaegar was already dead, Viserys had fled to Essos with Dany, and the Martell kids were..you know. It was the most practical decision, claims or not.
@@biddierepellent Why would the lords of the Vale know about the grandma of Robert who is stormlander , and how many of them will belive that the king is so mad that he has put to death a relative who is also a teenager
Robert's rebelion only after they take the throne and to be honest , Robert was the muscle but Jon Arryn was the brain behind it
But netiher Raghar,his kids or Viserys were death when the rebelion had started
Even if Arryn know , what really make him call the barenarmants was the fact that he see Robert like the son he never had
@@flavius5722you make some fair and good points. this is just the way i see it but your points make sense too. cheers.
100%, its noted in sources that Baratheons married into Targaryen family and were very close back in the day. I mean, Robert's grandmother was Rhaelle Targaryen, so its a fact of ASOIAF that he has Targaryen ancestry. You were correct, and even Orys Baratheon is believed to be the bastard half-brother of Aegon I, which was maintained by maesters, Targaryens, and Baratheons themselves. It would have been fairly simple to validate that Robert had the best claim, as it was already understood to be true by maesters and high lords. Orys Baratheon grew up with Aegon on Dragonstone....
Didn't Quinn the GM and fantasy haven do this video already?
Robert and his brother have actually have a targaryen blood line b/c their grandmother was a targaryen
Fascinating proposition.
Thank you for your work and thoughts. Thank you for sharing.
Martin uses the writing tactic of the unreliable narrator. It has been used by countless authors. It was used to great effect by Gene Wolfe. He used it in many novels by providing only information to one narrator by which the reader has to judge the story. This leaves the reader very much in the dark. The reader is just like the narrator, and wondering as to what is really going on. On the other hand, Martin is telling the story through over two dozen unreliable narrators. The reader does not really feel as completely in the dark as the characters. By using so many narrators, Martin makes us feel, as we know a lot more than we may actually know.
In your example of Mace Tyrell, we have to ask ourselves if Martin is really hiding the truth from us, or if every character in the story is wrong. When does everyone thinking that he is a fool become the truth? When does everyone thinking that he is a fool remain only a coincidence?
I would not call him a mastermind, but I do agree there is truth in how he, his mother, his daughter, and his sons, all present themselves to their allies and enemies. He is a cautious man, but he is now committed himself to the throne. He is going to have to take some serious action to come out on top in the end
Tyrion comparing Robb with Mace is stupid , his father dosent have anything to be proud in the last 20 years either
Lannisters don't act like fools
@@samsschool3639 That was just the show version
In the books , when margery is arrested Mace is getting her out , name himself Hand of the King , make a new small council made off only from his bannermans, and double the city watch with his own soliders , he is alive and well , and he has two more sons bigger than Loras
@@flavius5722 That gives me comfort because I support Olenna
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AI videos aren't videos
Dude no way Roberts army bets targ army and reach army it’s bigger then both put together
If you ignore the show and read only the books you will have no reason to think he is stupid ,he is much smarter than Ned Stark
Ned isn't stupid but honrbel man he is not like Baelish
@@user-bq6vh4xd1m Trusting Baelish was stupid. Trusting in a piece of paper to Cersei was stupid. Trusting dishonourbale people to be honourbale was stupid.
But Robert Baratheon did have the strongest claim by blood amongst those who rebelled. That's why they chose him to be king instead of Ned or Jon Arryn. It wasn't the strongest claim compared to the Targarions, but he did have a claim through his grandmother. Yes he claimed the throne by conquest, but he also needed a legitimate blood connection to the throne to make it easier for him to be accepted as king.
The end of A Dance with Dragons we hear Mace all puffed up with swollen pride and arrogance trying to gain more control from Kevin. Mace is also not an effective Battle Commander. It's house Tarley that is the main strength of the South. I see Mace running into a battle he can't win in book six because he's headed to face the Golden company, which will soon come down with Grayscale. Before book six is done half the army will be infected. I think Lady Olenna Tyrell is right about her son. Plus her Grand children act more like her than Mace.
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appreciate the support
No one had a claim over the 7 kingdoms. Including Targaryens. They did it, just because they could, nothing more
Main question, as a show only fan, how much of it is Mace's strategy and how much is his mother's?
In the books it appears to be all maces. In the books Olenna isn’t what she is in the show. She just appears to be an average old lady. That may change in the up coming books. If they’re ever finished and released.
@@happybee7725 she still planned the marriages, she still planned the purple wedding etc.
@@DraconimLt
Along with little finger. Would she have planned it without his help? We don’t know that for sure. So far Mace has been able to keep his lands un molested during the war of the 5 kings. Most of the other Lords lands got ravaged. Only Euron was able to do some damage to maces lands and even then it was only his banner men’s lands that saw any fighting. My point is just this… book Mace isn’t remotely as dumb as show Mace. Sure he’s no lord tywin but he’s in no way stupid.
@@happybee7725 you do realise for most of that Mace was in King's Landing right? So credit for that goes to Willas and Garlan more than him.
Prove that it was Mace who made the decision to ally with the Lannisters, keeping them out of their lands, cos the reason they were not attacking Renly's allies before that was because Tywin was too busy fighting Robb Stark.
I never said he was a sdumb as the show. I said PROVE he is intelligent.
Everything goes as planned until the Blackfyres show up
Blackfire? The Blackfyre became extinct in the War of the Ninepenny Kings, 40 years before the start of the main story
@@user-id7nk2yz9q
Not necessarily. The Blackfyres may have survived through a female line. That’s why people suspect “young griff” is really a Blackfyre and not really the son of Rheagar Targaryen
MACE THE ACE!!!!!! Based as fuck.
You SAY they were Mace's decisions, but can you prove it? How do you know Olenna didn't plan these things and then Mace just about manages to carry them out? The marriages being succesfully made, the Purple Wedding etc, that was her not him.
Mace didn't bind Redwyne OR Hightower to his family! His MOTHER IS a Redwyne meaning that link was already established before he was born, his sister being married back in was clearly Olenna's doing as Mace would have been very young when it happened, his wife is the Hightower meaning his mother would most likely have suggested that.
You are giving all the credit for her plans to Mace, just as many Lords do in the books.
Just as Mace takes the credit for Tarly's victory.
Mace might not be as stupid as he is portrayed, but you haven't given any proof that he's more intelligent either. We just have your word for it that he made the decisions, no actual evidence or proof.
Claims do matter. Robert TOOK the throne cos he won the war, yes. He HELD it because no one else had a stronger claim so were willing to accept his and because if they tried to take it they wouldn't gain enough of an army to back it up because they lacked a claim (or had just been deposed in the case of House Targaryen).
Renly's supporters were trying to copy Robert's success cos they didn't like Stannis, but they all believed line of succession mattered in their own Houses. They were also still backing Robert's brother not Lord Tyrell even though he had the majority of the army you notice...
Mace had become Hand of the King , and filed all the position în the small council with his own barenarmants, when he does that Ollena is at Higarden, what do you think seh comunicate telepaticly în Kings Landing
Stop eating 💩 just because you only watch the show
He said nothing wrong about Ollena , this is just you crying în the comment section on behalf of D&D
That who supported Stannis had quicly switch sides again at Blacwater
It can be proved that a certain percentage of decisions had to be Mace's, and not Olenna's, simply for the fact that Mace is out operating independently at court or at war, without Olenna, who is back home at Highgarden most of the time.
@@earlpipe9713 sure, but were they the BIG decisions, or were they just day to day ones?
I'm not saying he can't function at all, or even that he's as much of an idiot as she makes him out to be, I'm saying can the OP prove that Mace made the big/important decisions without his mother, and so far, he has only stated it not proven it.
Lady olena didnt make any decisions. It was all mace. Lets not forget that in got universe, men always make the decisions and women leaders are frowmed uppon. Except on dorn. Im aware that it happens with daenerys and cersei but the point is its frowned uppon.
Mace PUBLICALLY APPEARED to have made the decisions, that doesn't mean that Olenna didn't PLAN them. Look at how Robb discusses everything with his Cat in private.
And the receipts of his actions shows his idiocy. He keeps doing the same thing until a good result happens. He doesn’t switch strategies.
1st son, crippled young. 2nd son, became a legend young.
Luck
Maergary 1st husband, sat@nic death. 2nd husband, Olenna victim. 3rd husband, was kind and malleable.
Luck
He’s an idiot unless the books redeem him.
🚶🏾♂️
You don't just change a good plan because of a setback.
What happened to Willas could just have been an accident. And it was a good idea, proven by Garlen and Loras.
He couldn't foresee Renly's death, not his fault.And you're assuming he didn't know about Joffrey. Who's to say he wasn't a part of the plan to kill Joffrey.
You dont make any sense , on your logic if the biggest kid make a car accident, the parents shouldnt sent the other to the driving school, his sons need to learn to fight ,otherwise how will their barnements respect them ? From 3 sons ,2 end up capable, and who is Oberyn to give advices about how to be a father, his daughters dont know anything else but to asasin
Renly and Baelish( Tywin) had come to him for a marriage pact , and he accept to make a alliance , the opposite example is Baelon Death brain Greyjoy
În the books Mace is Hand of the king , all members of the small council are his barnements, his two first boys are a lords ,and his daughter is queen to a naive king
I dont think Mace is some genius for doing what every lord tries to do -- marry family members into better positions. That's like giving him credit for breathing, under the genius ploy that it will keep him alive. For cying out loud lol. Engaging video, just don't agree
No shade, can’t blame the show for his image cause i thought BookMace was the fool..
Renly and loras never happened in the books.
What do you mean? Yes they did.
@DraconimLt I may have been wrong. I read farther into the 4th book, and there was a sentence where I thought was implied
@@theforce5191 there was at least one in book 1 wasn't there?
And Loras' quote about 'Renly having been the Sun and no Candle could replace him' at some point.
@DraconimLt if memory serves ne right. Book 4 on Brienes' pov mentions in a sentence that renly and loras shared many nights together or something like that. But it was a small hint and nothing much. Other than that, I haven't heard anything of renly since his death.
@@theforce5191 Loras definately says that quote, he's talking to Tyrion - you might not have reached it yet tho I suppose (sorry for the spoiler if that's the case)