Are The Leafs REALLY Running It Back With the Core 4? 🤔 😑
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
- Nick Alberga & Jay Rosehill discuss the elephant in the room.
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Mitch Marner plays like a goddamn coward and I think it's completely unfair to expect Craig Berube to change that.
He's hiding ... until he is booed in front of 20000
If marner is still here by the start of the season, i would love to see him get boo'd off the ice on openingnight when they announce his name for starting lineup. Then maybe this management will wake the fu*k up and do something substantialto this joke of the core 4.@@breezyolive
After over 5 decades of Leaf hockey, you must understand that it's not about winning the Cup. It's about making money, it's about being entertaining during the 82 games played. Leafs sell out year after year, decade after decade and they don't have to win anything to get the job done. The fans will always come back!!
Feels to me that the leafs are indeed running it back again 8 years later.
"We're right there"
"There's a lot of belief in that locker room"
"We're great players"
..blah-blah-blah...
If they run it back a ninth time, I’ll do something else with my time. No sense in rewatching last season.
See ya
Takes you 9 years to figure that out?
I would rather bench the guy than play him. Out of spite
Moron strategy, so thankfully you're not the GM. Bench a 90+ pt RW when you're trying to make the playoffs in the highly competitive eastern conference out of spite. Don't forget you dolt, the 11M still counts against your cap while you sit him. Got any other nuanced tactics?
Please get rid of Morgan Rielly! Please I am begging you!
We just need to have better D so that Reilly can play less minutes and never again on the PP, especially in the playoffs.
The way the leafs went out is they scored a goal in a very tight game with 4 minutes to go and Keefe totally mismanaged the bench and put out an exhausted line and they were out of position and Samsonov let in a leaky goal
The leafs were not a good regular season team they were in a wild card half way through lost all games vs boston and every important game all year
JOhn TavRes: "WE'RE CLOSE"
Its crazy how the two guys who have had a playoffs where they actually are scoring big clutch goals was johnny t and Morgy Reilly against tampa. The two guys who get the most undeserved hate.
Rosehill is factually wrong on the big goal not happening. Matthews set up Nylander for the go-ahead goal in the 3rd period of game 7. They lost because they couldn't hold the lead.
Same shit, different year.
These 4 adds are not going to move the needle much. Yes.... they did get bigger and nastier but are they better to the point that they can get passed the 2nd round or the ultimate goal to win the cup? They are technically running this back for the 8th time. This is what happens when the core 5 take up 61.6% of your cap. They did what they could with the cap space they had. The problem here is that it's probably not enough. Marner needs to agree to a move for the needle to really move.
Nah, Marner's not the problem. Next year JT is gone and the cap is going up, then they can fill out the roster with some depth.
The cards aren't in our hands. Keep marner, let JT walk next year and call it a day
Meaning do nothing this year and ice the same line up in October.
After this upcoming year we'll be calling them the cup four! 🎉
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 thanks, i needed that laugh!
I'm definitely not watching this team next year, apart from some Saturdays and the playoffs. I'm just not invested in this core.
NICK my exact feelings something must change whatever we say they will not listen it's the leafs
You are missing the point of it he has a ntc which means he controls his fate which means his value deminishes which means all these mock trades probably not even going to get offered that because teams know so I’m all for letting him walk next year and using the extra cap to go after someone then it’s Dubas with the ntc that screwed it
....at least Marner played in all the playoff games. Why does Marner get all the blame? Some other big dogs are not getting the blame they deserve.
$11 million per year, that's why!
I agree with these hosts. Come October the Leafs will have the same Core Four and promising a Cup. All these deals are just tinkering around the edges. DUmBASs and Shanaplan have ruined the Leafs for the foreseeable future.
Is there one leaf that would sacrafice himself for the team. Been around since the leafs won the cups. Everybody sacraficed the didnt look to some else they did it them selves. No chance that the core four would every think of doing it.
Unless you can move Tavares or Marner nothing really changes, which is also hard to accomplish. They should have just gave him up for little and go into freeagency with more money for a Centerman, Bertuzzi and Zadorov
I really don’t care what they do with this core group cause if they keep it together I’m not watching it anyways. That’s a fact. They wanna disregard us fans I’ll disregard them as a team. Were talking about moving a single core player for 8 years of failure. That’s the absolute bare minimum they can do. There needs to be an once of accountability established in that dressing room.
Another fact … I’ve been watching this team every year since the early 90s and I’ve already shown 10x the amount of allegiance as they deserve.
Buh bye
@@gordonbgraham You just go on all the comment feeds and say the exact same thing everytime? Get a life bud. "Buh bye"
L0ser 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
As of now, their boogeyman team just got bigger, stronger, and more physical.
And will continue to beat up on the Leafs.
How can they not bring back the core 4.? Three of them aren't worth their contracts....so no one really trades for them, Plus they have NMCs. Trevling and friends had a chance to changes things, but resigned Nylander. I'm doubting Tavares and Marner will be back in 2025, so maybe that is the change the fans want.
Of course they will. Do the Leafs even change their boring all white jerseys ?
In order to trade marner u need a trade partner that has cap space and assets leafs want and marner has to approve
Also is I a one year rental for other team
Ya just call up a team with proven playoff performers and say we have a player who’s not getting it done in the playoffs can we have your players that do?
The problem was dubas mismanaging the support cast and having a rookie coach
Leafs will be contending for first place this year
they can't trade marner. he controls everything. you can tell during interview it's eating Tree apart. lots must be happening behind scenes
Leafs needs to fire Brendan Shanahan and Brad Treliving!
The NHL shouldn't allow no trade contracts so teams would be able to move anybody at anytime the players want out they just ask for a trade n it happens
It's not the league's job to protect badly managed teams like the Toronto Maple Leafs from screwing themselves.
Happy with the free agent signings and keeping Domi/Woll and even Lilj. But to run the core 4 back... fuck me.
The free agents signing are really tinkering around the edges. I hate to say but the Core 4 might be in Leafs uniforms come October.
@@Tiglath-PileserXIX That seems the most likely scenario. Which isn't the end of the world but frustrating. But I'd understand how
If they wanted change, we would see Marner gone. Management needs to be replaced especially Shanahan ...the architect of losers.
Shanaplan has been a Leafs Killer his entire playing career. He is still a Leafs Killer, and he has managed the Leafs for the last decade. Go figure.
I somewhat disagree Rosie, it's not only the core 4 that failed. Goaltending was terrible and the defense was non existent. The moves they made should definitely toughen up our D
same core, just plug and play. This was no different then what Dubas did 8 times.
Gotta run it back. What can Trev do - he’s been handcuffed by previous administration. Wish Papi took a bigger discount on contract and Nylander got us good this round vs last. Calm down Nicki
The Leaf Core 4 playoff disappointments are the best thing ever - to happen to Bruins Fans playoff hopes.
Bruins haven’t won in over a decade. Are they running it back with Pasternak? How many Cups has Pasternak won?
@@gordonbgraham The focus is on the Leafs on these Leafs sites - can the Leaf Core 4 playoff disappointments go another 8 years without a playoff run? Bruins have won their fair of cups (1 at least every 32 years). The fun & interest is watching Leafs Playoff hopes (like the NFL Cowboys). Too good to miss! 😀 Twenty years and counting without a Leaf playoff run.
@@jimlangdon1947 The Liljegren contract is a head scratcher. They could have used that plus 2 for Zadorov, which with Tanev would have made a world of difference. Blown opportunity
I got the impression that Leafs management just isn’t all that interested in Zadorov.
@@gordonbgraham Team defence in my view - is something that can come together & some players don’t work in certain systems.
A few years ago - my view was Luke looked pretty good & I couldn’t see why Leafs didn’t keep him. Another interesting fact - is how well the Leafs play without Morgan in their lineup. Why keep him - if the team record (about 20 games) improves when he comes out of the lineup.
Of course - even with Matthews out of the lineup, as a playoff series centre, the Leafs did better without him also this spring.
Not easy to figure how the pieces work on a team and also regular season versus playoffs (a big difference) - the Leafs are a successful regular season team - which counts for a lot. 😀
lol, one single round win in 20 years. This franchise is for losers. If they re-sign Marner I am finding a new team. It's insulting to my intelligence and my character to root for a government agency. Only a government agency could be managed worse.
Nick, I would like more change as well, however, the core 4 didn’t loose in round one, it was the secondary players who weren’t up to the task. Ask any coach and they will concur, the starting five usually match up team to team. The energy lines usually stack up, its the guys in the middle dictate the winner. Just ask the Edmonton Oilers. When Marner walks, we will have 22 million dollars to replace him plus whatever the cap goes up. I say, let’s be patient and let Treliving do his job. BTW, if you know how to trade Marner that Treliving hasn’t thought about, drop him a line. Otherwise, ……
The 4 players the Leafs pay almost 50% of their cap to, managed 6 goals (combined) in 7 games and you're blaming secondary players.
@@ClayBall-im1km Yeah, because the other team can control this 4. Thats playoff hockey. Now if they didn’t have that much money tied up with Marner then, we can get secondary scoring type players which then allows Matthew’s and Nylander to score. In addition to my rant, ( my apologies), Matthew’s should have taken 10 million instead of 13 million, which would have paved the way for better Nylander contract and a better Marner contract from a team perspective. Is Marner over paid, absolutley, would you trade him one for one for Brady Thackuk? Absolutely. He makes 9 million. If they weren’t so greedy, the Leafs would have a better team. We are basically saying the same thing. One more season them we will be rid of two over paid players.
@@johnhoward8668the government here is already taking half his income, why would Matthews take any less than he did? The league cap SHOULD take taxes into account, but don’t, so you see tax-free states winning a lot of cups lately.
@@johnhoward8668 I agree with you but let's be real: at your current job, you're probably not going to say, "I'll take $60k/ year instead of $100k...so you can bring in more good talent to our company", especially when pro careers can end any day (but yes, Toronto set their own negotiating standards by yielding every time). It's like favouring your own (blood) children. The ones that you drafted and raised...give them everything and then nickel and dime everyone else that you adopt.
The cap percentage is just part of the problem... the bigger problem is that they just aren't good enough when it matters. Not a single of them is even .9 points per game. And that joke JT is .6 HAHAHAHHAHA. They have zero evidence that they should run it back. I mean before this year's fluke run to the Finals, at least the Oilers stars put up points at least, you know the baseline for any reasoning to run it back. The Leafs? We're the worst performing elite core in the playoffs, zero evidence that it will ever work, let's double down on them and give them raises. Meanwhile trading for high picks and an NHL regular at the very least is the simplest and smartest solution. There is ZERO reason to run it back because losing fan favourites or gaining fan favourites doesn't affect their income in Toronto anyway.
8 years isn't a decade, and just like the Oilers this past year, it just takes 1 year of going to the dance or winning it all to shut the fans up. I've never seen a bigger bunch of roller coaster fans than what TO has right now
That roller coaster has not risen since '67, which was probably before you were born.
@Tiglath-PileserXIX you're right, I wasn't alive in 1967. But what I was trying to say is that the fans (and the media feeds it) are so focused on each game and the most recent results. There is a lot of extra pressure to play under a microscope
Are you a newcomer to the Big Smoke?
Leaf fans have always been like this.
@@tsak912 nope. Not during the Gilmour, Cujo era.
True. I was going to mention those 3? glorious years that we had.
Let Marner walk. Unless Tavares takes less than $5M, let him walk too. Save the AAV. Sign McDavid on July 1, 2026.
Maybe these guys should actually watch the playoffs and see how you have to play instead of going on holiday🤷🏻♂️
Leafs management has been dumping this sub-par product on their paying fans forever. And why not? You all just take it and ask for more. What do they care as long as you're filling their pockets.
Like the leafs should give up hhof players in their prime. Of course run it back, what the heck else can they do.
We all want a deal done now where Marner is traded & we get awesomeness back, but that might not be feasible. If they can extend him around the same AAV with some term but NOT include a "no-trade" clause, then that is worthwhile because you can trade him next season & teams have cost certainty on a top 10 (regular season) forward in the league - which is what he is. The BIG problem with Marner is this teams composition & JT's AAV. Our core "5" is too soft & too expensive That heaviest boat anchor is Mitch & JT sucking up 22 million dollars. Leaves so little flexibility. Nothing to be done with JT so just let him finish his last year & then that contract is off the books (YAY!)
No, the big problem with Marner is he doesn't have the dog in him and can't get the job done. Their is no way be bring Marner back unless he has a massive playoff run and performance this year. And that could happen under Berube but I highly doubt it. We have to move on, change is hard/scary lol but we have to move forward and create new culture. Right now we have a 'losing' culture.
@@xtho7999 Totally agree. I just think they might sign him with the intention of dealing him next year so the team gets leverage back. Would be ruthless but it's a business.
they basically have to run it back, no team will give the leafs a kings ransom for mitch
The cap space alone is worth getting rid of him, but, if PLD brought in Alex Iafallo, Rasmus Kupari, Gabriel Vilardi and a second-round draft pick, Marner could easily bring in something close to that...
Utah still has the cap space to get that big name to sell tickets, doesn't have to be a kings ransom. retaining 25% of his salary is still a win
@@leaf16nut i agree and he should bring in more pieces than the PLD trade but not many teams can take on 13 mil and with mitch's NMC makes it even harder
@@simont1709 Sit his ass in the press box until he gives you teams to trade too, you're right in it likely won't be a kings ransom, but the benefit of cap space outweighs the return. I also don't see any other team, except the Leafs, paying Marner over 11 mill, unless he wants to play for the sharts..
The hard part won’t be in finding a team that wants him it’s about finding a team that wants him where he is fine to play. We don’t need a kings ransom. Just something adequately fair.
The bottom six wins in the playoffs
I’m not watching this team anymore, it’s literally run by the players. The coach calling Marner a “character guy” proves that as that’s essentially the endorsement the other 4 gave him at the end of the playoffs. If you want your team to all be whiny little pussies he is for sure the character guy as described
It makes no bloody sense? ....let me explain. The Maple Leafs overpaid a bunch of school girls that can get it done in regular season but run when the wolves come out to play playoff hockey.
People harp on Nick for being negative and I find that just silly. From my view, he is right on the money. You have to break up the core of four players that make more than 60% of this team's salary cap. Have to. Like it or not, Mitch is the odd man out - and if you wait for the trade deadline, you'll lose him for nothing.
Again, Marner is in control. You are getting nowhere near his actual value even if Toronto can somehow induce him to waive the 'no move', so why do it? He has more value as a RW who has produced at a 90+ pt clip for 6 years in a row playing in your lineup just like Stamkos with Tampa last year. He was in the final year of an 8 year deal at 8.5M aav AND he also had a full no move that he wouldn't waive. Tampa got knocked out in the 1st round for the 2nd consecutive year & Tampa let him walk using his cap space to sign Guentzel.
You clowns keep thinking you can trade Marner without his input, but you are wrong. The 'core 4' raging will only change July 2025, when Toronto, if they choose to, can take the 22M they were paying Marner & Tavares & spend it on other players. Until then stop the useless talk about 'trading' Marner. It has come out that some UFA's this July were giving Toronto a pass due to the vitriol some supposed Leaf 'fans' are directing at Marner on social media. Nice going assholes.
Unbelievable imagine paying money watching these overpaid players something need to give
Marner should have been gone already, Leafs fans had enough of the same shit.
Blame Shanny. He dumped Dubis when he was going to make changes, and brings in a new GM too late to get rid of marner when he didn't have a no trade clause.
A lot of negativity in these comments. Must be Toronto fans.
The problem with all the shit-talking about the "Core 4" is that to my knowledge we've always been missing something. The scorers can score but it always seemed like we had bad defense or bad goaltending or straight-up bad coaching that mismanaged the leads our scorers gave us. People harp on the Bruins always beating the Leafs but that's because Boston is always super beefy and throws their weight around on top of having killer goaltending and scorers. Toronto up until this point has been a fairly light team that focuses on speed. The moves made so far seem to be addressing the weaker areas of the team, especially defensive defensemen who can hit back and sabotage the other team's plays.
We also haven't seen how this team performs with the new coach yet. And the if anything the 2023-2024 Oilers are a prime example of how good coaching make all the difference in the world.
Thank you I have been preaching this
@@OlDirtyBaron I remember reading this same comment when Babcock was fired and they brought in Keefe, I guess 3rd times a charm eh
Scoring becomes way more difficult in playoffs. The difference in the Boston/Toronto 1st round series was Swayman was better than Samsonov. Period. There were other factors, but that is the primary reason. Hits 346 (Tor) to 335 (Bos) basically even. SOG 215 (Tor) to 193 (Bos). Blocks 107 (Tor) to 135 (Bos). There are more sophisticated metrics, but these are NHL provided simple stats. Samsonov's save % in games 1, 2, 3, 4 & 7 were .833, .931, .909, .824 (pulled in the 3rd finally) & .938 in game 7. Swayman .972, Ullmark .912 (only game) .933, .960 & in game 7 .968. Games 5 & 6 Woll was .964 & .957 & Swayman was .939 & .923. Close tight series decided in game 7 in OT. The difference was Swayman decidedly outplayed Samsonov. Ullmark said in an interview, he couldn't understand why Keefe played Samsonov, as he considered Woll the better 'tender.
LOL everyone outside of toronto knew this was inevitable since their last game played..... lol leafs fans. you silly on this one. your guys are your guys for one more season. is what it is. stop crying bro.
This is like Homer simpson asking: Are you REALLY the head of kwik-e-mart?
The Atlantic division has some of the top elite defensive teams in the league. Toronto is competitive against those teams, typically close to winning series. Many times the team that beats Toronto is in the SC final. Thinking that major changes are needed is simply not true. They need to upgrade their goaltending, which this year I think they have. They need cheap depth. Six million for Kampf and Jarnkrok isn’t working. And they need to upgrade D, which they did.
Tavares is the one that needs to go after this season. He has had 7 years to make a difference in the post season. He will decline in his future years. There is no reason to bring him back. Who is their second line center? Marner played center in Junior and is elite defensively. He can fit in that role. Heck, he even took shifts on defense and did well. This is a versatile player that gives you more than a typical offensive player.
I watched many of the SC final games and IMO they shut down McDavid when Florida played their game. This was no different than what happens to the Leafs every year. Difference is McDavid doesn’t play in Atlantic division. If you look at McDavid’s offense it’s far less impressive against strong defensive teams. Sure beat up on mediocre third string goaltending talent in the playoffs. Bravo. The Leafs NEVER get that matchup in the playoffs. Top goaltending and top defensive teams is what they play every season. Gary Bettman is to blame for the ridiculous playoff format. Yes, Leafs need to build a better team, but Marner wasn’t the reason the *entire team* fails to score.
Edmonton has been swept three times in the McDavid era. Say what you want about the Leafs but that never happened. The Oilers were outscored 11-4 in the final in first 3 games in the final. It was a smackdown. It wasn’t close. That is not what happened to the Leafs when they were beat by Florida. Watch the highlights and the series was much closer than the 5 games looked. The Leafs have been consistently sunk by bad goals every playoff year. This is the main change the team needed to make. A little more depth, better D and goaltending and that is enough to push the team over the top.
I fckn hope not
Nick 1 more season to SUFFER watching JT and Marner than HISTORY ...SAVINGS of 22M ...Than the LEAFS will change for the BETTER
They're getting extended. Just watch.
@@Spike10111 ..NOT a chance in hell unless hell freezes over 3 times
@@Spike10111they are but Johnny not making more then 5
I dont mind running it back with this group ...but who are the UFA goalies or D next July 1 ? That is whefec Taveres and Marner money needs to go.
Leafs need Marners point production. Give Berube a chance to do what he was hired to do. Mitch was not the only one who didn't deliver in the playoffs. The whole so called stars need put up when it counts.
Domi had more 5v5 assists than Marner last year, they needed a coach that actually knows how to be in the NHL. Hopefully Berube fills that need.
And be hand cuffed trying to sign players.Why do you think they went for Stolarz .Can't afford to get a great goalie.
Thank God Oilers fans these guys don't do this show for the Oilers, McDavid only got 3 assists in the 4 games they lost to Florida. Stop whining, he wants to stay in Toronto and reups for 2 more years at 8 million per. Just keep in mind Treliving doesn't get why you keep blaming Marner for the playoff loses.
If he was going to re-up for 8 mil, nobody would be complaining
The issue is, he’s going to ask for 12-13 mil.
@@tsak912 listen again, the complaints are about production in the playoffs.
Just because they didn’t change what U wanted doesn’t mean they didn’t change the culture by replacing GM n entire coaching staff !
I'll state this and believe I'll be proven correct, the core will eventually break through.
To what? Second round? ..34,88,16,91 are softer than baby shit bunch of ballerinas no heart
😂😂😂😂when year 12?
@@RattleheadVic73 Hopefully within 4 years
New coach might help them dig deeper in the playoffs
There’s always hope lmao
Cause Berube is going to get out there and score goals lol
@@leaf16nut people say DUBAS and keefe created a safe space for matty Willy and marner. We haven’t seen them held accountable consistently.
I’m aware it’s wishful thinking
Idk ...hope you are right 🙏 put they laid an egg in the post season under Babcock and Keefe
@@madelyns9908 I just hate the narrative that a new coach is the answer; the players are getting (over)paid to be game breakers, if they continually fail to perform when it matters most, what the hell are they getting that much money for?!
If you need a coach to put you in favourable situations, shelter you from the other teams players, to inspire you to perform or whatever other bullshit people claim, you're an incredibly flawed player and shouldn't be paid 'difference maker' money.
Cry harder mewlers
They have to. They won't get much for Marner
😂😂😂
You mean the core 5. Stop saying 4. Reilly is part of the clown show
Nick...stop your crying bro. :) Marner is going to get $11.6 - $12 million AAV. You watch. Everyone in the league loves Marner other than part of the Toronto fan base. You CZcams guys keep on expecting and talking like Marner is going to get traded but the only thing the Leafs organization is saying is "he's a star"...and they know stars don't grow on trees. Even if you could trade him (no move clause), they're not going to take 50 cents on the dollar. They know cap room will be freed up with Tavares next year. If you're going to run a business (and don't forget that it's a VERY profitable one), check your emotions and biases at the door. Wake up and come back to reality.
So we're going to get one take all year out of this half wit 'but the playoffs and trade Mitch or I'll sulk'
This podcast blows.
In order to trade marner u need a trade partner that has cap space and assets leafs want and marner has to approve
Also is I a one year rental for other team
Ya just call up a team with proven playoff performers and say we have a player who’s not getting it done in the playoffs can we have your players that do?
The problem was dubas mismanaging the support cast and having a rookie coach
Leafs will be contending for first place this year
You don’t need a team with cap space. It’s called dollars in dollars out. Just trade him for a couple players who add up to 11 million.