Independence Day (1996) - re:View
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- čas přidán 18. 06. 2016
- Awaiting the release of the much anticipated ID42:Regurgitation, Jay and Mike discuss the 1996 film Independence Day and make a case for why it's a terrible, terrible, terrible movie.
There isn't an extended audio version of this episode because obviously the video version is already long and thorough. - Zábava
I admire Mike's ability to argue with someone who agrees with him.
Sounds like a modern politician.
@@noneya3635 *a politician
@Rick Wilkinson Suuuuuure.
Let's leave it at that.
@@rickwilkinson1909
Reagan was honest? That’s hilarious.
@Psychoticpebbles Reagan was not honest, but I would say 2016 campaign Trump was the most strikingly honest politician America or the world has had in modern memory. Of course, by the end of his first year in office it seemed like he just stopped caring or cut some kind of deal with the oligarchy and became a shill like the rest of the politicians.
The girlfriend was a stripper because Will Smith's character was in the military...they were just keeping it realistic.
Did he just buy a Mustang?
And the kid wasn't his.
Only military people will get it sadly.
He met her in Fallon, NV and she's on lithium.
Having served in the Navy I can confirm.
As an Italian I've always been gravely disappointed that those Aliens weren't shown destroying Rome. You could have had some great corny scene with the Colosseum being blown up and one stereotypical Italian being disintegrated while on a Vespa carrying a pizza: "Oh mamma mia gli alieni!". As Stoklasa said: "That's so bad I can't believe it isn't in the script".
Thank God they largely fixed this error in "The core" and in "2012", where we are vastely represented and properly mistreated.
If they attacked Rome they would hit St Peters first that’s where Santa and the great pumpkin lives,
Jk I’m Catholic
I have a "Mandela affect" moment with this movie, where I recall them destroying Rome!
I'm sure I'm just recalling a different film or just made it up. But I have the memory of the colleseum being destroyed
@@damenwhelan3236 The Colosseum gets destroyed in _The Core._
As a fellow European, this honor belongsto the french. In every global-Disaster movie they MUST show the Eiffel Tower being destroyed
New Godzilla sleeping in colloseum must have made you proud
I love how Mike hates this movie and thinks its so dumb, but will still challenge Jay's unfair critiques of how dumb it is
Yeah I was thinking "Jay has Mike defending a movie he doesn't even like that much" lmao
That’s how a normal discussion should be. If you just dump all over something you don’t like without any restraint or without being fair your main points won’t stand out of what the real problems are.
Movie can be stupid as fuck and have scenes made for cheap claps, but it doesn't necessarily means it's all bad. Not everything had to be pretentious crap. Don't get me wrong, Independence Day is fucking stupid as shit but... meh
@@gasparguruoftime5475 This is what I like about Red Letter Media. Used to kind of watch the Nerdrotic circle of critics on things but when they all get together it becomes a bit of a circle or critics becomes a circle jerk. That and the fact that Mike's villain arc of laughing at old people on the brink of death is much better than anything marvel or DC are churning out 😆
@@danielrafferty4108 Plus Mike and Jay are far more intelligent. At least their presentation is without devolving into an academic critique.
Notice how the aliens completely ignored Milwaukee.
They knew they couldn't contend with the greatest force on earth known as Rich Evans.
I would have hit Milwaukee first.
Can't blame them for that.
@@leooz8071 .1% of them are
There is a Dark Horse in Milwaukie
"The stupidest aliens in the universe attack the stupidest humans on Earth."
catchy tagline
Duncan Van Ooyen This should be the top comment.
It's completely inaccurate, though. The aliens from Signs are clearly even stupider. Or Battlefield Earth.
I went to this movie at the theatre....and there was this older lady sitting in front of me...and she cried....and laughed and cried...and laughed.
Would have worked for Signs or Mars Attacks, for completely different reasons.
I'd watch a movie with that tagline. Sounds like Mars Attacks lol
I'll never forget, when I saw this in the theatre and the dog saved himself in the tunnel, one guy screamed out "What a f*cking dog!!" Everyone burst out laughing - Ive always remembered that for some reason
He was talking about the film in general.
My mate's biggest disappointment to this day is not shouting out "weeee" in final destination where the ambulance drives into a lake, and someone else in the theatre did it.
Hell of a dog
You saw this at the theater? And you stayed there long enough to see the dog. You must be a simpleton. You paid contributed to the box office of this movie, you're the reason why movie suck now.
@@thepangwin902 Like Cerberus
The VHS tape of this did have a holographic type cover that when you moved it showed the image of the white house there and then the white house blowing up.
Haha oh yeah what a blast from the past, I still have that somewhere.
Not a hologram. It is just a lenticular lens.
Sorry for being pedantic.
@@PiLLbOt100 ha, no worries. I didn't know what the actual term was and was too lazy to look into. I figured people would know what I meant.
I miss VHS.
That forced perspective they're using to make Jay look smaller is great.
Mozts1 O god I didn't notice that until now
I'm always amazed at these special effects. As all his livejournal followers know, he's 7 feet tall, and on a constant hair gel I.V. (cleverly hidden by scenery or airbrushed out, frame by frame)
He's sitting 3 metres away from Mike in the back of the room. It's glorious
@@Locateson His chair is much larger than Mike's as well
@@johndodd6908 The fuck seriously. Isnt Mike like 6ft2? How small would Jay have to be. Im 6ft6 and i feel like Mike is bigger then me watching this video
32:20 the pure contempt on Jay's face as he realizes Mike's going to talk about Star Trek.
lol i had the same reaction just watching this now!
Damn, that was a fucking look
Humans are playing chess, the aliens are playing Warhammer 40k.
Lol tru
Blood for the blood god?
@@EliseOfTheValley Skulls for the Skull God
The aliens are broke and living in their mom's basement?
The Aliens want to show Rich Evans their Warhammer figurines and Wendy's ads.
The amazing thing about this movie is you can easily be drawn into a fantasy world wherein Will Smith can knock out an alien in a robotic suit when in reality he can't knock down a skinny comic with a good hard slap!
What kind of slap knocks someone to the ground...
@@at0micl0bster a dad slap. Right after you poke the tail lights out of his LTD.
...Robot suit? They're in a biomechanoid suit, it's a living organism that they ride around in.
@@at0micl0bster a really hard one, obvs.
That slap had more script than this entire film.
When the fog is really high up in the sky like that we call it "clouds", Jay.
hahaha
Milwaukee is so overcast that I don’t think Jay remembers what clouds are
I thought they were giant, flying sheep.
@@cheezemonkeyeater cotton candy, ackshully
They are the real alien ships.
i saw independence day on opening weekend, people applauded when the dog lived in the tunnel.
+Colby S if that's your response to people reacting a way you didn't like to a scene in a movie, it's definitely a personal problem that's all on you
+Colby S Adjust your attitude, you'll be happier
sorry about my dad... he claps for a lot of shit in a lot of movies...
-_-
But what if he is a life coach?
No way, he gives slightly ok answers that can lead to more conflict, as you can see.
What I remember most about this film is that after Siskel and Ebert both gave it 'thumbs down', Emmerich created a 'Mayor Ebert' character and his assistant 'Gene' for the 1998 Godzilla, which Siskel and Ebert highlighted with a black and white still during their review.
I thought it WAS Ebert for the longest time.
A thumbs down??? I remember taking years to see it but now I am quite fond with more of it than parts I dislike😊
And they where disapointed that Emmerich didn't had the balls to kill them off in the movie 😎
I worked near the Goldstone Observatory in California. It has a deep space radio telescope. They most definitely had employees there around the clock. One of the missions was SETI-related. The employees were almost exactly like the people in Independence Day.
From what I've heard, they get all worked up prematurely and then deflate when they find out the signal is from a random pulsar documented in the 1970's. The red light is a bit much.
Why the hell would they name an observatory after an ice cream store franchise?
From what I understand different teams of scientists have to apply for time with the telescope and there is a whole schedule of who gets how many weeks for their research made in advance? Neil Dgrasse Tyson was explaining his work at one of the observatories and he explained part of just how bureaucratic and logjammed the whole thing is.
They usually don’t notice anything until they see the data later.
Poorly written?
They don't and can't do live monitoring of the data. Employees are there for mostly other purposes.
The famous Wow! signal? It was actually discovered on the printed data. The data was printed and someone was looking at and saw it and wrote Wow! next to it. That's how it is
Nowadays computers can scan it real time of course. And then record the irregularities. But humans will never do that. It doesn't make any sense.
aliens are playing checkers, but Jeff Goldblum's been playing chess for years
heh
Poppa bless
This is totally me when i'm destroying the white house
This should have been a line in the movie. nice.
Rein 4d chess
What you have to understand is that the reason the virus was able to take out the mothership and disable it's shield is that the aliens entire fleet was running on Windows 95.
Cameron Tkachuk more like Mac OS as Jeff Goldblum uses an apple powerbook to upload the virus. If the alien ship was using windows he wouldnt be able todoanything as they are 2 very different OSs.
You can write and compile windows programs on a Mac or Linux box, they just won't run on your non-windows machine.
The real problem is (which Cameron was mocking) there is no way they are using any system Jeff Goldbloom would know how to write a program for, and so no virus.
Though they can sort of get away with it in that our tech is based on their tech, coupled with the aliens being a hive-mind, so not exactly security minded. Also worth noting that the aliens did it first, subverting human computers (the satellites) to use as their countdown timer, which also hints at a reasonable amount of compatibility. But yeah, it's a bit silly... just like most cases where hacking or programming is used in a movie ;)
Cameron Mitchell is in this movie!? @@jeffwells641
Wait a minute....windows, Windows let us see the sky!....sky, the sky is where the spaceships are!.... We can disable the spaceship....by using windows 95!!! Somebody get me a Gateway PC!
When they mention "practice flying on a computer game" and "you need level 10 hand-eye coordination to fly an alien spaceship" I was immediately thinking of The Last Starfighter.
I was thinking he was describing Pixels.
I was thinking of Slade Craven
That movie is legitimately good, though. And it has decent side characters that appear throughout the film but don't get in the way of the story.
Which like spaceballs, was another movie that made more sense and was more fun. :)
Patrice O’neal and O&A did a great review on Independence Day.
“Didn’t knock the alien out, he knocked out his outfit..”
"judd Hirsch, you mean 'Heeby Kikeburger'?"
*Patrice scream laugh*
“What’s with this Area 51! Couldn’t they bargain it down to area 50!”
@@eamon4800 "I wear penny shoes, not penny loafers!"
"What you doing with the 1950's spaceship?"
“what kind of asbestos room did she go into?
she lived but later died of mesothelioma”
Independence Day is a 1950's B movie, made with 1990s cinematography and special effects, with an "America FUCK YEAH" attitude.
It is one of the more, shall we say, unique cinematic time capsules from the 1990s.
Agreed. The film harkens back to a time of optimism between the Gulf War and 911.
I'd actually say it's fun to ...not watch...have on in the background. It's maybe SO bad, with fun special effects, that casual viewings are forgivable. Still, no debating it. It's a terrible movie. I'll show my children Forbidden Planet 100 times. I'll hide this one from them.
***** I'm definitely watching Space Cop with my future kids some day.
***** I think that goes without saying.
It's a ripoff of War of the Worlds.
There's one scene they cut from the film that makes the story make so much more sense. The crazy Area 51 guy sits down with Jeff Goldblum in the captured Alien ship and he's explaining how all the technology of the last few decades has been reverse engineered from the ship, INCLUDING COMPUTERS (he says computers specifically). It's like 30 seconds, and it makes the solution make sense rather than being inexplicably able to hack the aliens with a Mac.
That's a good point actually
Fair enough.
Was that scene cut from the film? I distinctly remember seeing it in a Russian TV broadcast 15-20 years ago.
@@jakejutras5420 Quantum Computing
@@antediluvianspy1708 their password was "Admin". No matter how advanced the tech and security protocols, you can always count on users to be stupid, lazy, insane or all of the above.
Every July 4th, my friend sends the "Today we celebrate our Independence Day!" speech via text message to everyone he knows, it's great
You know, the VHS release of this movie had a holographic front in the packaging which showed the White House blowing up WITHOUT the helicopter. I'm sure this has already been said 700 times.
Randy Quaid's the key to all this...
He's a fatter character than we've ever had, so hopefully we can get him working
Randys gonna take his little aero plane and go to town
+Malcolm Thompson Hahaha
Randy's gonna drink some Qui Gon Jinn, and fly his bongo bongo into the Trade Federation control ship.
While Frank the Rabbit tries to fuck Mrs. Doubtfire's daughter.
It's not the same but it rhymes.
TV Tropes calls it Eureka Moment and it lists the catch a cold scene in Independence Day as an example.
I motion that we update the cliche's name to "House ex Machina"
@@cpmenninga I saw the same comment thread. I prefer "Moronspiration" myself.
The "Dog Scene" is rough to watch now, but I was so happy a dog didn't die when I was 6-7 years old watching this movie at the theater. After watching Old Yeller when I was 4 years old, that scene was a welcomed relief... Also, Bill Pullman and Randy Quaid killed it.
When the dog escaped the fire and into the doorway, the audience at the theater went wild. I’ll never forget it.
Commented this on an older comment but it's funny people cheer for that one dog considering millions of people and probably billions of animals are killed in that same scene.
But I know as a kid I was happy the dog lived
@@sleepykoinu Yeah lol, millions of people- ehhh fuck'em.. But don't dare kill that dog. It obviously hits different as an adult tho.
Why did Bill Pullman and Randy Quaid kill the dog?
@@Eckendenker because Randy was drunk and Bill gave him the keys.. Knowing what we know now, I'm thankful Randy only killed the dog and no dogs wore any masks in the making of this movie.
We were lucky that the aliens disabled Windows Defender. The firewall was probably off too. Terrible sysadmin...
"The Randy Quaid Incident..."
That would be a great punk rock band name.
Sounds like a reality show.
And the first song on their CD would be "I'm Baaaack"
keefriff99.
The government is coming for all of us
The Republican Party is a ball of pus
They are reading our brains with the x-rays
You gotta listen to what I say
Don’t believe the media, they lie to you
I am the only one who knows what to do
They we're great for a while but then the lead kind of lost touch with reality and fled to Canada with the bassist because he thought the Kiss Army was coming to take them away to FEMA camps
@@TheKaiTetley what do i do?
There's actually a great _Calvin and Hobbes_ Sunday strip where Calvin writes a story where aliens come in an Independence Day type of ship and just start sucking up the air like Mike was talking about, and they deploy a megaphone and say "Although you may find this slightly macabre, we prefer your extinction to the loss of our job."
They suck up the oceans too! But I think Watterson was making a commentary on how capital takes precedence over the environment as opposed to a truly creepy alien incursion :P
Michael Piperni dirty Commie
shut the fuck up, commie@@fuzzydunlop7928
@@evansullivan2535 embarassing
nothing's more embarrassing than being a commie@@joshp6030
Can we talk about the fact that will smith knocks out an alien with a single punch despite the alien was in a bio mechanical suit, then drags the alien through the desert and it doesn't wake up until they slice it open.
It did crash straight into the ground 60 seconds before that. I can imagine it being a little weaker than normal.
@@Conservative4 Thank you. lol
I hate when people try to be all witty while making a point. Usually these people forget the details.
WELCOME TO EARF
Maybe it was playing possum
Saw this at the drive-in in 96 at 20 years old. It was a double billing with Arnold's Eraser playing before it. It's still a guilty pleasure and reminds me of a simpler time in my life.
Yeah I was gonna say I was 15 and just cared about asking out my crush and seeing something visually fun and exciting. Who cares about how silly some of it is. It was 1996 and way more fun than the 2020s
I saw this movie at an outdoor theatre in a campground when I was around 12. It was dark, the temperature was just crisp enough that you shivered at the right moments, and it was the perfect narrative mix of ominous/scary beginning and inspirational/stupid end. I feel like this movie was specifically made for me to watch it at exactly that moment and place in my life.
k
Had a similar experience and I've always enjoyed this movie in a dumb fun kinda way.
It really is a harmless dumb fun popcorn flick.
And that's ok! Not even Mike or Jay can take that from you!
I remember seeing it in a brand new theater, it was a big premiere and the audience was riled up. There was applause and gasping. Total suspension of disbelief in the theater that night. I had never seen that before in my life, and really the only thing that comes close was movie goers seeing Endgame and just having a good time. Very similar.
I was also 12 when this movie came out and 12 year old me loved it. Adult me thinks it's cheesy, but I still have nostalgia for this film.
Same dude. I was 11 years old when I watched this movie in theaters in 96, and I think I was around the perfect age to love a dumb popcorn blockbuster like this. It has never held up upon later rewatches, but I still have a soft spot for it.
Mike and Jay are: Co-dependence Day.
The first Independence Day is just another fun background movie for Sunday afternoon. You leave it on the TV while you go do chores. You can come back and know exactly where the movie is in the plot.
What a compliment
@@falsedavidbowie368 Better than what the guy in the clip said "I don't watched it very often as I don't like it" which has to be the most stupid line ... and they have a go at the movie for being for simpletons ... haha
The part when Peppy and Falco help Fox to hit the opening is my favorite.
Jeff Goldblum's eco-warrior pay off is when he say's "Y'know how i'm always trying to save The World...Well, here's my chance".
Yes. It is very on the nose, but you are right.
Doesn't he ham-fistedly toss a soda can into a recycling bin while he says it too?
@@keefriff99 oh yes. He does.
I mean it kind of works... But he could have been a crazy person who thinks he's a super hero and it'd be the same thing. It should have been way more specific than general world saving. Wil Smith tries to save the world as a soldier so he could have said that too.
I like this movie for the same reason I like pizza pops or instant ramen noodles. Sometimes you just want or need crap
True enough. Have an updoot.
agree. there’s quite a few “bad” movies that i’ll watch over and over whenever it comes on TV.
Exactly, it was SciFi pop. I thought that's what summer "blockbusters" were supposed to be, fun movies that have no chance at sniffing an Oscar. Oh well, I guess critics are supposed to be critical, lol.
You can't have steak every day sometimes you have to go to McDonald's.
The hell is a pizza pop
"I can never understand why people love Independence Day" - The same guy who thinks Feeders belongs in a museum.
@Zeke Spears so do you
@Zeke Spears I love indiana jones
I saw it in the theater twice when I was 9. The alien surgery scene jumpscared me both times. I was a 9 year old simpleton and I loved the film.
Some for me. Makes it hard to watch the film without nostalgia goggles now...
hahaha
Your parents paid movie theater prices twice for this? I went when it came out in July....maybe it was even on July 4th when it was released, I can’t remember. But it was definitely a let down, even if I couldn’t explain why at the time.
@@roems6396boo
I always knew I was dumb. The fact I was happy Boomer made it into that road closet proves it.
Boomer will live.
Boomer OK
WAIT I NEVER REALIZED THAT!
WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT DOOR LEAD TO!?
Ok boomer
@@anubusx *happy screech*
Its so funny to me that Independence Day copied the "There's too many of them" scene exactly right down to the asian pilot.
And yet they forgot to mention the most obvious Star Wars reference: "Look at the size of that thing".
Oh yeah it is an Asian guy in ROTJ right? Lol.
you guys realize its not copying, it's paying tribute. Lucas did the same thing with homages to E.T., Frankenstein, The Day the Earth Stood Still.
Derek is correct.
This and Return Of The Jedi both feature a pilot crashing in their target, causing it's destruction.
I unironically cited this as my favorite movie, when introducing myself to a college screenwriting class.
The president's Independence Day speech was definitely something you could recite in a drama/acting club
“I love your balls!!” for admitting that
@@drhodesco yeah, but hol-e-god, did his movies get bad... 2012 was literally the last movie I saw in a theater (which was 2009). it was so bad, it scared me from the theater experience altogether.
@@jaredbond7908 so he went from your best to your worst, ruining your experience and enjoyment. That’s sad. I wasn’t so aware of directors and such at that time, but I think Independence Day gave me my fill because any movie I saw the preview for that looked like an end of the world scenario, I just didn’t watch. I got the point, seen it already. Turns out most of them were from the same guy, I guess.
Did they kick you out
Snowed in for a couple days... re:View playlist engaged
Third episode and they're already on movies they hate
They both hate the movie, Mike's on the right instead of the left, this show has JUMPED THE SHARK IT'S ALL DOWNHILL FROM HERE PEOPLE
No, that was the second one. Mike hated Escape from New York. Jay picked it because he loves that one.
As was pointed out they have a shitload of shows for that. I want to know movies that they like and if they both hate something keep on a plinkett review.
Yeah, I hope they get back to what these were supposed to be about.
We already have Plinkett shitting on bad blockbusters, best of the worst where they shit on old movies, and half in the bag where they shit on new movies.
I liked the episode with len kabasinski who,k while they laughed at how movies sucked, he asked them to find good things about the movie. And it really turned into a good conversation about movies.
I thought from Tremors episode that re:View to be more like Every Frame Of Painting where they could focus on things they cant in other formats.
A lot of people seem to be missing the point as to why Mike and Jay hate this movie so much. It's not just that it was a dumb, corny, schlockfest; it was a dumb, corny, schlockfest that paved the way for the success of Michael Bay and equally cancerous, big-budget action movies the likes of which we're not going to see die anytime soon.
Time period and context have A LOT to do with why those movies were successful. They aren't the greatest looking back on them, but they worked for their era. What did Independence Day really bring to the table that hadn't already been done by those films or by the Spielberg movies it was desperately trying to ape?
And Iron Man 3 was way better than this film.
Laurel Jacobs
...Yeah, no fucking duh.
I intentionally changed it as a personal preference that's relevant to me. I mean, wow, it's not like people play around with usernames or something.
Pro-Tip: Don't watch. Critics are curious creatures. 'You shouldn't enjoy this because I don't'. Basically big children. And they call these films made for children. Projecting much?
That's a rather gross and, dare I say it, childish oversimplification.
Someone explaining point-by-point why they don't like something is not the same as a kid stubbornly refusing to eat their vegetables.
Trevor Plant
Movies like Predator, Army of Darkness, Highlander, and Die Hard aren't high-falutin', intellectual think-pieces, but they also don't talk down to their audiences.
Making a fun, action-packed movie that isn't as dumb as a sack of hammers is far from impossible.
I saw this movie in a drive through when it came out. also i had beer. i had fun. i liked fresh prince.
Just watching this commentary for the first time. They do explain what the aliens want when Bill Pullman (under alien mind control) discovers that the aliens want to live here until they consume the planet then they’ll move on to another planet.
Also, destroying any possible resistance however unlikely by exterminating the local populace first made sense
@@porksterbob What doesn't make any sense is why they need to do that when they have psychic powers and can manipulate people's bodies. You'd think they would build some kind of psychic amplifier that would make everyone kill themselves. Then you wouldn't need to waste the resources in those cities.
I fucking loved Mars Attacks when I was a kid
It holds up
It's amazing to watch it as an adult and knowing how crazy the cast in that movie is.
I couldn't stand the CGI and something about the whole stupidity made it unwatchable for me.
+viscountalpha But that's what makes the movie great.
The best thing to come out of Independence Day was Metal Slug 2
it definitely wasn't the Independence Day game.
On the Neo Geo baby!!
Does Metal Slug 2 copy the plot of Independence Day?
I don't get it.
Ohfuck yeeeeeees
I agree with everything said here and I still love this movie
Same here. Acknowledge all its flaws and still watch it whenever it’s on.
IKR? This and Armageddon... the guiltiest of guilty pleasures.
@@christopherdobney2927 I hate that I love Armageddon….
How embarrassing for you
I'm not gonna lie. I really like 2012.
I think a lot of the reason a lot of people responded well to this movie is because it captured large scale conflict in a way most movies had not before. It had great effects and it was able to really show across several locations how high the stakes were. As movies get bigger in scale, they usually become less logical because there is less time to explain everything. The problem is every movie tried to be like Independence Day so the novelty of the scale wore off, but the dumb qualities of scripts contorting to tell giant scale stories stayed. That’s my understanding at least. Yes the script has some dumb qualities but I think people gave it a pass because it felt epic. It doesn’t hurt that Jeff Goldblum and Will Smith are charismatic and some of the humor like the Area 51 stuff actually works.
Type 'scale' again.
@@CsykKrit scale
I'd love to see you guys review "Mars Attacks!"
Ack ack ack
Stargate would be great.
Worst movie ever made
Loved it back when it was new, DID NOT age well.
@@3AHoles You must have gotten stuck on Martian detail.
I don't get it. Does Mike like Action Schlock, or not? He didn't like Civil War because it was "too serious and comics are Schlock". He did like BvS "Because it *was* Schlock".... and he doesn't like ID4 because its Schlock.... Inconsistent much?
He definitely can't seem to decide if he likes schlock or not. Well, neither can just about anyone. It usually comes down to whether or not a cheesy movie makes you feel like you are being sandblasted or not.
+The Fox is it good schlock or bad schlock? That's usually what defines wether it's like able or not
I always feel like Mike would just be a massive dickhead if you ever met him on the street. The idea that comics and comicbook movies are schlock and can only be or should only ever be schlock is just seems so arrogant to me.
I think that whether a movie is Enjoyable depends on a lot of factors to do with the person watching and it's not actually about whether the movies is "schlock" at all. I would like it if Mike and Jay would go deeper into articulating what makes the difference between good and bad schlock in their view. Could be an interesting discussion.
What I don't like in the comment section is people making this conclusion that Mike and Jay must be hypocrites cause they like dumb movie A, but not dumb movie B. I think this is false comparison. Is every movie that is "smart" good? I don't think so. And very clearly not every dumb movie is unenjoyable. Sometimes "dumb" just works better than in an another context, and I think the reasons for this can be quite complex and different people will obviously have different views on this.
In short, it is entirely reasonable and consistent to like some dumb movies, but not all dumb movies, because the dumbness of movie is not the only thing that matters and there is more than one type or level of dumb that a movie can be.
BvS is "schlock" is a way that it's so full of itself, but tone-deaf in it's execution, that most of what you're supposed to take seriously just comes out as comical. Independence Day just grabs a bunch of generic elements, throws them together, and acts as though it's following in the grand Spielbergian tradition of blockbusters. But it just lacks any of the charm or inventiveness of those movies, and also isn't so inept and terrible that it becomes schlocky in a funny way. It's just dull and groan-worthy for anyone whose seen this kind of story played out.
I really can't comprehend why people jump to the conclusion that this line of thinking is "inconsistent". Even if that weren't the case, this isn't a hard science you can accurately quantify and measure. It's just two people giving their subjective opinions and their reasoning behind reaching said opinions.
I would like to submit, 4 years late, that "that moment" where the protagonist realizes the solution be called the Jessica Fletcher moment. Fifty minutes (real time, which includes commercials) into each episode of Murder She Wrote, Jessica Fletcher realizes who the real killer is by some unrelated action. If not, alternatively, it could be called the "ah-ha" moment, such as "where's the spoon" from Coming to America.
It's called a Eureka moment
I love how Mike comes up with the plot of Battleship when thinking about them stealing resources and suggesting they just come down and steal water
It’s called a eureka moment.
"You'd all be dead if it wasn't for my David"
28:05 is called serendipity, it's what always used to happen in every episode of House M.D. and gave Dr. House the key to solving its cases.
There's only one Alien movie that holds its own amongst all others, a timeless classic with the most realistic & pragmatic examination of what would REALLY happen if aliens came to our world & they were hostile...
Mars Attacks.
Graphics sucked in that to be honest.
That movie was so bad..so so bad.
@@rickylovesyou only if you are stupid, oh so stupid
When the Martians are running around incinerating everyone, and they're carrying speaker blaring "Do not run, we are your friends!"
Lol I hate that movie
They don't like a movie I enjoy. Oh look, the world's still spinning. People have different opinions about shit, it's fine
People get waaay too defensive when this happens... Like, it's okay if you want to express why you like the movie, but you don't have to take their opinion as a personal offense.
They lie about it, and use massive double standards. They bash this film for the same reasons they praised Age of Ultron.
...Like what? In that they thought they thought AoU was a bloated yet passable movie? That kind of high praise?
lol
*****
That statement about "waking up scenes" is more a general rule than something that's set in stone, because it's a generally trite cliche that's played out. That doesn't mean it can't be used effectively, and in this video, I think they were very clear about how it could have been utilized well here.
Rules sometimes exist to be broken. The "it was all a dream" ending is another tired trend that a lot of people warn against using, but it can also be used well if the film actually earns it, like in Jacob's Ladder.
And no, Mike wasn't complaining that they should have opened showing exactly how SETI worked in meticulous detail, but that it was a dumbed-down version of what would actually happen, and either way makes for a terrible opening for the movie.
Hence WHY he said the scene with Will Smith would have been so much better. It actually builds up to the mystery and the mood of the movie. And I think they've both been pretty consistent in their dislike for movies with large, bloated casts; they didn't like it here, they didn't like it in AoU, and (Mike at least) certainly didn't like it in Civil War.
I get a feeling that a lot of people just half-watch these videos now, cherry-pick what they hear, and then use it as some sort of "evidence" that they're being inconsistent or whatever based on something else they sorta remember them saying. All the while removing any context to what was said in either case, or lacking the good sense that movie reviews aren't exactly an exact science.
This is my favorite dumb movie of all time. I guess it just came out at the right time in my life (I was 10) and I thought it was the most amazing thing I'd ever seen. It was pure spectacle, with some of the most amazing visual effects, fun comic relief, and (at the time at least) tense and even somewhat scary imagery. In my 10-year-old mind, this movie was a thrill-ride and Will Smith and co. really were saving the world. Plus, we saw it at some huge-ass theater that had just opened up downtown...making it even more of a memorable theater experience for me.
Nostalgia aside, I still find it thoroughly entertaining and fun to this day, even if a little dumber and less believable. I agree with a lot your points (though Jay just seemed to be trying to find things to nitpick without even remembering what happened in the movie.) I hate the majority of Michael Bay/Roland Emmerich-style mindless schlock that this film has continually inspired since. Yet, to me this movie just works a dumb, fun, entertaining movie or drinking game movie.
Yeah. Fun. To this day!
It must be a really small window indeed then. I was eleven when this came out and I remember very clearly that I felt sad that my friends liked it. I didn't even want to argue about it and call it bad, I just kind of left them and went home. This is probably the first movie I remember that made me more cynical about movies. It was that bad.
I loved it when I saw it in the theater in 1996 at 20 years old. I saw it again recently (bought the DVD) and well... it just couldn't live up to the memory. But I agree that it was quite a spectacle when I first saw it. In my mind back then, it was going to be a classic forever.
I agree, 100%... This is the classic, just sit back and enjoy type of movie. It's got fun, interesting characters, real and of the world level stakes, it's exciting... Its great for what it is. And who doesn't love President Pullman's speech?? Hating thislbie is anti-American, lol. There, I said it.
@@MasterKoala777 That's how I feel about Forrest Gump. When I first saw it at like 13, it was the greatest movie ever... Now I can't stomach it. Same goes for Titanic.
Them: "This movie is for dumb people. Let's look at an example."
[The dog escapes the explosion]
Me: *smiling with tears in my eyes*
Hahahaha
This comment genuinely made me laugh out loud
I.D. was one of the best popcorn movies of my childhood. It was the talk of the school and a mainstay at movie nights, even here in Hungary. I watched it so many times, I could basically recite the entire movie line-by-line from memory. And I wasn't the only one by far.
Mike says the movie is made for stupid idiots. I say there is nothing wrong with a movie that's accessible and easy to understand. I could watch this with my parents, my friends or even alone, and all had a great time every time. The story is straightforward, the characters have clear motivations, they are fun and there is never a dull moment from start to finish. No, ID4 is not a deep and meaningful Oscar bait, artsy high-cinema bullshit or a 5 hour long drama with a billion twists and turns. Not every sci-fi has to be Blade Runner or Space Odyssey. ID4 is a simple popcorn action movie, full of popculture references, cheesy one-liners and catchphrases, and a metric f-ton of action. The main thing is, it doesn't try to be anything else. You can say it's corny or dumb, but I can still watch I.D. today and have the same amount of fun I had all those decades ago. There are very few movies like that.
'House Realization'
Always the moment when Wilson/Cuddy/Foreman would say something offhand and unrelated to House's current case, and then House would link it to his case and save the day. EVERY TIME
IT'S LUPUS
Brad Knapp haha
I'm surprised there was no mention of people's complete and utter disbelief Randy Quaid's abduction story, even though the planet was completely encircled with giant alien ships.
Well, I don't know about you, but if aliens were to show up, and some nut job (his image doesn't lend itself to credibility) claimed he was abducted by them, I probably wouldn't believe the guy either. It's just more likely he's crazy or wanting attention. Probably one of a ton of people coming out of the woodwork making the same claim.
Also it's entirely possible that his character was a nutjob/attention seeker and was never abducted despite the invasion, though that would be giving too much credit to the writers, nuance wasnt exactly on the ticket for this movie
I really wish they would do a Re:View about all of their guilty pleasure films, but done in the style Mike and Rich's Star Trek TNG favorite episodes. It would be EVEN better if they talked about films they genuinely that are typically accepted as terrible.
Could you imagine if it turns out Jay likes "Tootsie" or if Mike was a huge closet fan of "Dr. Giggles"? i would love to know, PLEASE PLEASE film a top three/five/ten guilty pleasure films.
Future Mike to Brent Spiners return: "No one's ever really gone"
Jeff Goldblum and Will Smith made me enjoy this movie. Also because it's one of the few Emmerich films with no annoying, detestable, punchable kids.
Lmao "punchable kids"
This and Stargate.
@@loganw6156 It's easy to forget Emmerich made Stargate because it's nothing like his other movies. My only complaint is with the constant close-ups.
@@TheSolidSnakeOil i work a lot on Emmerich films our studio partners with him regularly hes an interesting guy.
*Leave. My director's. Name.*
TV tropes has this particular trope listed as "Eureka moment"
Happen-stance serendipity sounds better.
It’s mine,
Pay me.
A eureka moment should be reserved for a character’s own realization unprompted from outside.
Happen-stance serendipity is the phrase. Embrace it.
The eureka effect refers to the common human experience of suddenly understanding a previously incomprehensible problem or concept.
There was nothing incomprehensible, rather he finally made a connection to an obvious but overlooked idea. 😎
Thank you for tearing apart one of my favorite childhood movies. I don't know if I should enjoy it so mich 😂
The thing I liked about Independence Day was that the Aliens were actually getting the win and destroying important places all over the planet. Usually, it's just American City A, B and C that get attacked and destroyed, but here it kind of felt like it could've been the end had they not had their way in with the crashed Roswell ship.
Granted, the movie came out when I was 6 years old and I loved it back then, so seeing something like this could instill a real feeling of dread for a kid.
Good thing none of the aliens noticed the nuke hanging from the bottom.
There is an important distinction between criticizing a film and that film's favored audience. It's better not to insult the latter, BUT if you are going to insult the latter, you should at least build an argument against the FILM first.
It's not a cerebral film, but it does have the hallmarks, tropes and character archtypes of the old sci-fi films, but are shown in what was a modern period. This enabled contemporary audiences to empathize with the events going on in the film. Obsessively watching cable news for a slow trickle of uninformed updates; The varied responses to the invasion: parties, riots, frantic evacuations; The involvement of heroes from many demographics, from different groups in society: politicians, military (both command and front line soldier/pilot, scientists, and most importantly schmoes/regular joes. All these things make the events more relatable and entertaining. It largely comes down to the willful suspension of disbelief, and more specificly whether you are watching these events unfold OR are watching the film/filmmakers relay this story to their audience.
Not everybody to saw this movie, paying audience or critics, liked this movie, but most did. And some will say that the movie is dumb and that they didn't "get the feels" from this movie, and that's okay. Just don't say we're stupid for ENJOYING it.
I LOVED this movie back in the day. I was there on July 2nd 1996. But I wanted to see f-16s fighting aliens. I wasn't looking for the English Patient.
I enjoyed it but I was 10, so I have some measure of excuse. And yes, the English Patient sucks ass.
I was 10 also and this movie was DOPE back then!
Well that's kinda their point, it was a dumb blockbuster movie for kids (although the fact that this was the first movie starting the extreme dumbing down of pop cinema is another story) which is fine, the bizarre part is people will fight you to death to prove otherwise like its some artistic masterpiece hence why they reviewed it as such in response to these people lmao
Mike, it's the 90s, so this movie has big 90s energy. US Air Force, internet, computer viruses, Area 51, UFOs, X-Files, grey men world coming together for world peace.
There's actually some novels (yuuup) where the other countries manage to take down the city ship attacking their country.
Independence Day novels???
@@deadNightwatchman yeah I want it too
I like how there's this vibe of "we don’t understand why people enjoy this" but not even 5 minutes in Mike nails it exactly and just...doesn't notice.
Yes. It's like a Saturday morning cartoon. With a massive budget and a buncha names on screen. That's it. That's why it's popular.
I think they did a good job of clarifying this take in their Resurgence review. Essentially they feel that the sequel is schlock (ridiculous to the point of being entertaining) while the original comes across as uncreative pandering.
That would explain why children (and adults who watched it as children) would like it, which Jay notes would be understandable. It doesn’t explain why adults, who should know better, watch it and defend it.
@@Los499 what? It absolutely explains it. It’s a Saturday morning cartoon for adults.
I think it's hurt patriotic pride, because Emmerich as a German nailed the American sweet spot of stupidity
@@Los499 "Adults who should know better" Let people enjoy what they enjoy.
The ship that crashed at Roswell wasn't a saucer. The eyewitness sketch of the Roswell ship does resemble the ship used in the movie.
Also, according to producer/co-writer Dean Devlin, the U.S. military had agreed to support the film by allowing the crew to film at military bases, consulting the actors who have military roles, etc. However, after learning of the Area 51 references in the script, they withdrew their support.
Wait... isn't Jay's idea about the aliens wanting to suck up volcanos to fuel their ships the actual plot of the eventual sequel? These guys predict everything.
Really? I know we're talking about an unwanted sequel to a big dumb movie, but volcanoes? I didn't think even Hollywood could get that dumb.
There's a sequel!? Why?
It must have been Xenu coming back to collect all those alien souls, or thetans.
@@MartKencuda Tom Cruise could've played the protagonist. Scientwits would've considered it an informative docu-drama.
@@Derek_Keenan wow what a spicy and original take. very cool
i went to pulp fiction to see a film. i went to ID to see big alien ships, and explosions. i wasnt disappointed by either.
I bet you went to Cheesecake Factory after. And wore beige.
Mpst of the gripes they have with this film arent even problems. The last starfighter was literally a teenager playing videogames and being chosen to fly in space because of it to save the world. And it is fantastic. They make very few actual points about holes in the script.
It's actually Hack Screenwriter Tip #108 you hack screenwriters!
I figured you were too busy stroking Derpy to comment on a RLM video but I guess I was wrong.
Ralph, you are awesome.
Because they were busy with Sarah Polley's zombies.
That hack screenwriting tool is literally the ending to every episode of House
The Jimmy Nintendo joke became the plot of Pixels
It's the plot of the 1984 movie "Starfight" (or "The last Starfighter"), in which some space force plants arcade machines all over the galaxy and then recruits folks who break the high score for fighting in an intergalactical war.
@@macsmith2013 : tell me that movie was written ironically.
@@PoochieCollins It's a guilty pleasure of mine tbh
Its also how they land the plane in "Snakes on a Plane"
@Poochie Collins no, but it's fricking awesome, so it doesn't matter.
This and Jurassic Park were the first true Summer blockbuster movies I experienced at the cinema. I was 12 when this came out, great memories! Shame the sequels have all been dreadful
Funny how Mike's description of how he thought the movie should have started with Will Smith is almost identical to the part in Arrival where the aliens, um, arrive.
This review did a great job of reminding me why I love Independence Day
"I am the one who points." - Mike Skawowoskitka
Mikesenberg
without chemicals, he points
Michael Schwaschtiklasa
They didn't resort to all possible options before using the nuke though. It was seriously like the first thing they tried. Less than a day after deploying a nuclear weapon they discover the trick to get through their shields.
I like how you can track the health of Roland Emmerichs marriage through the course of his films where now he always kills the ex-wife’s new husband
I have just invented a new game. I call it Independence Day Chess.
One player has only pawns and a king and the other one all queens and a king. The player with the queens is given five minutes to make as many moves as they want before the time runs out.
Anyone up for a round?
Porcupinel
Sure!
I call queens😂✌️
You'll still lose a lot of queens.
Lol
"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards. Checkmate." - Zap Brannigan
But in a universe where Roswell actually WAS an alien encounter SETI would definitely be manned.
A million times YES.
People also tend to forget how is it nobody saw such a huge Alien mothership passing by the moon with the naked eye?
Mike mentioning Star Trek to Jay is like me talking about it to my best friend, pensive stare with little engagement whilst all the while thinking 'please not another star trek tangent'.
I remember seeing the trailer for ID4 in the theater and my mind being blown, I said to myself I have to see that movie. And when I did, I absolutely loved what I saw, I was a kid, 18 years old, I didn't know what was good in movies, I enjoyed explosions and dumb stuff. Now here we are 21 years later, and I'm 39 and I guess while I do recognize that it is dumb and full of plot holes and logical inconsistencies, I can't bring myself to say that I hate it, or even dislike it. It's a fun, summer blockbuster, popcorn movie, it's not supposed to be high art, it's supposed to entertain you while sitting on your couch with a beer in one hand and a bowl of chips in the other, and it does, at least to me. And sue me, but I liked Resurgence too.
Real Question when the Aliens invade will we still be able to get some of that juicy Shaq meat?
Wouldnt you cross the vast ocean of space for juicy shaq meat?
That S-meat is a resource!
The movie is bad in places but I think the overall presentation and most characters leveled it out for me
Of course Will Smith and Goldblum being a highlight
The visuals of aliens blocking out the sun is what sells the movie
Simultaneously destroying all of the major population centers of the world is my favorite chess tactic.
I cheer every time that dog makes it through the door. Every single time.
Because I like dogs and they didn't do anything to warrant being on a Roland Emmerich picture.
My favorite part of this movie is seeing all the intact palm trees among all the destruction as will Smith's girlfriend, son, and dog leaving the tunnel
Its just a fun popcorn movie guys. You park you brain and enjoy
You gotta give the movie some credit for the blowing up the cities part. That was some cutting edge crazy back in the day. All the critiques are valid though.