LEAKED Titan Sub Transcript Shows Crew In Battle For Lives
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
- Jeff Ostroff reviews the leaked Titan Sub Transcript which the internet is debating the authenticity of, to see if this scenario is real, and whether the Titan submarine crew really spent 20 minutes fighting for their lives with OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush at the helm, only to have the OceanGate Titan submarine implode before it could resurface. Do you think this is the authentic leaked Oceangate Titan Sub transcript?
00:00 Introduction To Leaked Titan Sub Transcripts: Is it authentic or fake?
01:12 Review of Titanic Sub Transcript starting 7:52 AM
02:33 Transcript shows Titan sub descending to fast to Titanic shipwreck
05:24 First sign of trouble for Titan sub in transcript
06:51 About Titan Sub RTM Real Time Monitoring System for Hull integrity
07:34 Initial crisis communication between Titan Sub and Polar Prince support vessel
08:23 Titan Sub jettisoned the ballast weights and frame, ascending now
08:35 First message from Titan sub about crackling noises aft
10:21 Tutan Sub reports slow ascent, 1/4 of speed expected
12:45 Topside Polar Prince support vessel loses all communication with Titan Submarine
13:01 Time of Titan Sub implosion estimated: 9:47 AM
13:39 Last message from Titan Submarine to Polar Prince support vessel - Jak na to + styl
It's very unfortunate this happened - but tragedy brings wisdom. We know that Carbon Fiber unto itself is NOT suitable for diving expeditions of any kind. Further the Titan was constructed without an escape hatch (yes at the lower depths not worth anything) but we don't build subs without a topside escape hatch. It was all wrong.
Stockton Rush's contribution to science was so huge that all humans now know not to make a submersible out of carbon fiber
It’s been obvious for real engineers from the very beginning
@@tonymontana897 I think he's beyond the reach of most jurisdictions
@jeffostroff We were supposed to have already learned from the Titanic to not push engineering past it's limits. It will happen again bc egos are too big. And again and again.
@@jeffostroff The only way I can think of that carbon fiber could work in a situation like this is if it's draped around stronger supports and has a shape a little like a suspension bridge, so that the pressure is increasing the tension on the carbon fiber, and transferring the pressure to, say, steel rings inside it. On the Titan, I suspect the carbon fiber played no structural role whatsoever, and it was the 13 cm thick epoxy that did all the work of withstanding the pressure - until it gave out.
The fact that the engineer that told the owner that this was a " accident waiting to happen " got fired is bonkers!!
It’s so egregious it’s almost as if should be some kind of automatic check when someone is fired from a position like this.
Plenty of design groups don't think they need engineers who are able quickly recognize and explain issues. With enough time and work-arounds, the product eventually ships.
Happens in most profit driven ventures run by sociopaths who disregard safety.
@@k-c plus woke people... I heard that they wanted to virtue signaling and denied help from veteran and didn't wanted "white males" or something...
The engineer was an old white man (into the trash). He got in the way of OceanGate's innovation with his silly white man talk.
The Australian engineer who built James Cameron's submersible said that Cameron was obsessive about every detail and would debate for hours as to whether a titanium washer was better than a stainless steel one. That is the kind of attention to detail and seriousness required for such a dangerous venture. Plus, Cameron always went down with two submersibles in case there was an issue.
How would 2 submarines dock [underwater]? Certainly he's not swimming outside.
@@GodKing804 They wouldn't dock underwater... If one sub lost power or got stuck the other sub would know their exact location and would make rescue efforts more efficient.
@mustymountain7105 rescue how?
@GodKing804 The second submersible could get the other one unstuck with a claw arm or by gently ramming it. One Russian submersible was stuck in the propeller of the Titanic with an American journalist passenger who was terrified while the pilot was speaking frantically in Russian to someone and finally maneuvered the vehicle loose from the propeller of the ship.
Not ALWAYS with two submersibles - not in the Mariana Trench dives, anyway. But down to Titanic in Mir-1 and Mir-2, yes he did.
Former Navy Submarine Veteran here (688 class 1986 time frame) I could not imagine going that deep in anything made out of carbon fiber. Modern day Flight of Icarus
Ain't no way, SSBN 655. Early 80s
literally held together with hopes and dreams.
Anything deeper than 3 feet is far too deep for me. These guys were mad lads level of insane!
The whole transcript talked about in the video was faked. There was no communication with the sub.
@@Kevin-ht1ox
What do you base your statement on? Source?
Descending into total blackness for 2 1/2 hours in that tin can - the stuff of nightmares for me.
Same here, watching a TV documentary from the safety of my sofa is the maximum I’d go for with subjects like this
Me too. Brrrrrr…..
Lying in bed in a blackout suffering insomnia, is the biggest risk I would take; compared to a case like this.
As a submarine veteran we have a saying, "Submarine life is 99% boring interrupted by shear terror". There are 2 types of failures, the ones that are slow and you can catch without too much damage and the other that happens in the blink of an eye.
We used to go to test depth to check out hull integrity and someone would tie a string on each side of the room on the hull and watch the string slack as we went deeper. At test depth we would take up all the slack and make the string taunt again and make bets as to what depth it would snap. Submarine sailors have a dark sense of humor.
Being that the hull was a wrapped composite construction water could have wept through the hull from the beginning making it heavier as it descended. I do not know if they had bilge detectors which would have alerted them of a hull problem. Crackling noises probably was arcing from the battery. If Bus A was shorted out Bus B, if it was next to Bus A, would have shorted out at the same time causing loss of communication. Time of implosion can not be determined by that standard. Only by comparing the Navies report of an underwater explosion time stamp, minus distance from sensor, can a true time be determined. That information will not be given to the public by the Navy but maybe the inquiry will release it with there findings.
In the Navy if a sub is lost at sea and not recovered the crew is considered 'on eternal patrol'.
Eternal Father, strong to save,
Whose arm hath bound the restless wave,
Who bid'st the mighty ocean deep
Its own appointed limits keep;
O hear us when we cry to Thee,
For those in peril on the sea.
Interesting
Thanks for sharing
Excellent post, thank you, very interesting
Thanks for sharing. Very interesting stuff you went through.
Thank you for Sharing, sir and thank you for Your service
Just the fact that the system doesn't automatically send diagnostics data to the top side is crazy to me. Edit: Wow, this blew up, thanks for all the likes
The issue is since they werent tethered al they had was pretty much a SMS system. Which doesnt have massive bandwidth. So short text messages is about all they had to report back with. Thats what Ive been hearing at least.
you can’t use radio wave through water, so you’re quite limited.
of course it sends. This movie is an example of hyenaism, making money based on a false record. It's disgusting
He didn’t like 50 year old white guys. Weird, who wouldn’t want experienced engineers?
By all accounts, the system was returning position and status data at 15-minute intervals. The inertial navigation and telemetry system is made by Teledyne Marine, and uses an acoustic modem to communicate. OceanGate had been using Teledyne equipment from the start. There is an interview around here between Rush and Teledyne. In that interview, he stated that he didn't like to be interrupted by voice communications, and so the system as configured did _not_ have voice capability-but it is available.
The fact that the mother ship asked about the descent rate smells fishy. I conjecture Stockman Rush put extra ballast weight on that day, so the submersible could descend faster. Why? So the passengers could spend more time at the bottom exploring, listening to the French man’s interesting, educated commentary and answer questions. This may also be why they had difficulty shedding the ballast. Maybe not enough came off, as the ascent was too slow. When I work on plumbing and have to free something stuck, I slowly apply pressure with my wrench and the fitting gives. I slowly continue to loosen the stuck item. If I grabbed my wrench and put a lot of quick muscle into it, giving it a honk, I could easily break the fitting. Same here, quickly descending super stressed the vessel, causing failure. Had they descended slowly, the pressure would have been applied gradually, and may not have failed. A normal descent though, would have given the passengers limited time to explore the wreck. Perhaps 20 minutes? And then have to ascend. Concentrate on if the preparing crew added extra weight to the submersible that day, to make it descend faster, in an effort to allow more exploring time at the bottom. Such a tragic disaster. I feel very sorry for the victims.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Makes sense now. Where were you all weekend when I was without water due to a clogged sink and very runny shower waiting on my landlord to get here to fix it? I could have done it myself lol
That "increased acoustic activity that always occurs well before the structure fails" is the sound of the passengers screaming. Foolproof and works every time.
Agreed,a once in a lifetime trip to die for at the low price of $250,000.00per soul&we aren't immortal's¬ a Soul gets out of this life alive the dead know nothing.I feel bad for the teen his mom was suppose to go but she goy scared&talked her son in going fur fathersday.
" Snap
crackle
pop "
Yeah and then if you listened to what he said immediately after that, he said that didn't happen in this case
Well they were right actually. It's just that the timeframe for warning is in milliseconds, not in minutes or hours. 😅
No time to scream.
The two most terrifying words in aviation are "homebuilt helicopter" and the two scariest words in marine engineering are "uncertified submersible".
Every ship on the sea floor is an uncertified submersible, including the Titanic. :)
Scariest words in rocketry are "uh oh"
Scariest one for space projects: Were we supposed to use metric or imperial for the measurements?
@@communistsaregross3165 Building one from a kit would be "home assembled". Making one by duplicating the peces from a working helicopter or a kit would be "home manufactured". Making one of your own design would be "home made" and "home foolhardy".
@@The_DC_Kid Remember there was that guy in India that designed and built his own helicopter with very little formal knowledge and was unfortunately killed before it ever flew. He was testing it while it was anchored to the ground and the tail rotor exploded(carbon composite?), sending shrapnel into the cabin. Experts say his design had the tail rotor spinning far too fast in relation to the main rotor, plus the rotor wasn't built to aerospace standards to reliably withstand the stresses it was under.
People wanted to think they died instantly, and they did, but that death was preceded by minutes of absolute terror.
20 harrowing minutes
Yep...I suspected as much...but not like this
Honestly. People are too soft. They need to know how messed up life can be so they can cherish lives more.
Yes unfortunately it was 😢
My daughter has posters of Stockton Rush all over her walls. She wants to be a submersible pilot. Should I tell her?
I've been on small planes before when I'd say to myself that the pilot didn't want to die any more than I did, so if he was going up, I could too. Here is a situation where the pilot (and builder and owner and advocate) didn't know what he was doing and was more of a cheerleader than a level headed scientist.
The guy was cavalier with safety protocols and standards. The biggest shame is that he took four other people with him.
If so, how was the sub design ever approved and allowed to go forward? I don't think so on the pilot error being suicides. Maybe a couple of them were but in many cases a determination was made that either a poor design, wrong bolt, forgetfulness (pitons), or software error were responsible. Also some of them could have been planned because of who may have been onboard. I'd like to know why the Malaysian gov't isn't pursuing finding the MH370 wreckage. They have a very plausible (maybe 90%) lead to examine, but won't. Why?
Many small plane crashes are labelled "pilot error" when in fact there was mechanical malfunction due to design issues. The airplane manufacturers are powerful and the NTSB will only push back hard with large airliners.
@@user-hc9lp3hb1r Yes, absolutely. Small planes don't have the rigid requirements for maintenance and safety that commercial carriers have. I personally knew a crash victim who survived. Why did the plane go down? Because it was way overloaded. Sad.
@ConwayTwitter Why would this be remembered in 100 years? I think it will all be forgotten in 10 years.
My claustrophobia wouldnt allow me to be bolted into anything. Gives me chills thinking about it.
Same here. I panicked when I had to undergo an MRI. The chamber was dark and noisy. If I should need another one, I will insist in sedation.
Not even if I was PAID 250K! Not even a million!
If I was a rich going down to see the Titanic would not be on my bucket list
@@MattVrazel-xy1hj I can think of much better ways to spend a quarter million and none of them involve a trip to the bottom of the ocean in a tin can with video game controllers.
No doubt.
As a professional oceanographer who has done deep-sea exploration with submersibles, I can personally say that if your descent rate is too fast it simply means you are too heavy, for any and all reasons. If your ascent rate is too slow, it also means you are also too heavy. When you release ballast, you are as light as you are doing to get. You do not rely on vertical thrust to ascend through the entire water column, which consumes power. We almost lost the DSV Alvin on one of our dives due to an entanglement at depth with commercial fishing gear. They popped ballast and ascended a while before sinking again. Vertical thrusters were inoperable. They shifted weight in the sub and used the horizontal thrusters at max to drive to the surface with maximum deflection and barely made it as rescue divers cut the wires free. It was one of the closest calls Alvin ever had to likely loss of life.
In Titan's case, many things could be the cause. I loved this breakdown. The high descent rate could be an indication of miscalculated or failed ballast, failure of a buoyancy module (if applicable), or a combination of factors. If the transcript is accurate, the difficulty with the release followed by the very slow ascent rate is very interesting. Typically, in a disaster, there is more than one factor. Here, I believe one failure led to a sequence of failures. I think there was a fault in the descent rate due to some failure, followed by hull deformation and ultimately catastrophic implosion.
How many letters per minute was your bandwidth for acoustically transmitted text messages at maximum dive depth from Alvin to surface ship through the thermocline?
@@thekaiser4333 Basically like typing with one finger. However, Alvin has a voice (phone) as well as code communication system. As depth increases, the delay increases. I found the phone to be a bit garbled at great depth and unnecessary. for the most part, you are autonomous and simple text is fine. Hope that helps.
@@oceanexploration I guess for the phone you used the Gertrud system? Up to a couple of 100 yards that should be fine. But not 4000m in salty waters. How at 4000m near a noisy shipping lane like the Titanic rest place? Text? How many letters per minute? One letter?
Or were you tethered?
@@oceanexploration Nice ship, the Alvin.
Quite suitable for Titanic. Wonder why Cameron preferred to use Russian subs?
How many Alvins are there?
Deformation would be usually be the case for sure. But looking at a video on CZcams from Dr. Chris Rayner going over the accident, he looked at carbon fiber on the hydraulic press channel, and when it breaks, it does so like shards of rock or glass.
To be honest, it wouldn't have been 19 minutes for me. I probably would've had a heart attack from sheer terror and I don't mind admitting that
Same
Period
I definitely would have had a panic attack. But I wouldn't be there in the first place. Nothing about it sounds enticing to me.
19 minutes for what?
@NoMoreQQ 19 minutes of knowing there was a problem?
The navy knows EXACTLY when the sub IMPLODED.
11:17 When they mention that the sub has only risen 20 meters in 3 whole minutes, remember that at this point, the sub has already jettisoned both its ballast AND the frame. The sub should have plenty of positive buoyancy now and it should be impossible to stop the sub from surfacing. It should be rising like a cork. But they are actually using the thrusters to fight their way to the surface. Those thrusters are designed for moving a neutrally buoyant sub around a wreck, and they would have run out of power long before they could climb through 3000 meters of water.
It's a fake transcript people. Been debunked for awhile now.
To OP.
Which is why this whole "transcript" is *utter nonsense*
"The sub should have plenty of positive buoyancy now and it should be impossible to stop the sub from surfacing. It should be rising like a cork" So why wasn't it?? In a regular military submarine this can happen due to severe flooding of some compartments. But the Titan was a deep-sea submersible. If there is a leak... it's instant implosion. And if there couldn't be a leak why didn't it rise fast?
Because. This. Transcript. Is. Nonsense.
Thank you
Looking at how many shortcuts were taken , the crew weight was probably too heavy and that fought against the positive buoyancy maybe ?
@@2534will I'm thinking that the composite material (in the cylindrical part) had so many micro-fractures in it from repeated dives, that the material was no longer rigid. So as the sub dove, the composite could actually flex inwards, reducing the volume of air inside the sub and thus, reducing the sub's buoyancy.
It would explain why the sub's rate of descent was getting faster, the deeper it got. And why they had so much trouble surfacing, later on. The sub's volume (and buoyancy) had actually been reduced by the water pressure.
If that's the actual transcript, their descent rate near the end would have required 8.64 hours to ascend back to the surface. Also, if this is legitimate, their utter disregard for a significantly increased descent rate (unless they were intentionally descending more rapidly) was yet another indicator they ignored.
this is what i can't understand. that descent rate means he knew they were overweight, means he should have known they could have issues ascending. Why on Earth didn't they abort right near start of dive? Ridiculous.
@@backfromcuba Was the total weight of the passengers too heavy? Can this experiment get any worse? I guess there will be lots more to come from the official inquiry.
Would not the top ship have someone up there saying: Return NOW?
@@diannt9583because the big boss was in the sub and he was famous for not respecting safety issues?
@@backfromcubabecause clearly this is a very fake transcript. Originally a transcript was released on TikTok that claimed to be “voice communications” until they realized they’re WERE no voice comms, at which point they released this text transcript with parts taken almost word for word from the “voice” hoax. This is just a really despicable and shameful cash grab by people on TikTok.
I don't think a slower descent would have saved them. Parts of the hull were not rated for the pressures found at that depth and its surprising the sub didn't implode sooner. Its also well known that carbon fiber weakens with each pressurization/de-pressurization cycle and after previous descents the hull was probably already on the verge of failure. I suppose with a slower descent they might have noticed the problem at a lesser depth and have had a slightly better chance of ascending before total failure but the odds were still not good.
I saw this transcript on CZcams a few days after the accident and it is so sad especially for the boy who didn't want to go but for his father on Father's Day. They died together instead. God's Blessings with them.
Why would you question god about his decision to let them die?? Second guessing god and pointing is wrong decision to him is a good way to get to hell???
FYI the kid wanted to go. His mom has said in interviews that she gave her seat up because her son wanted to go that bad. He wanted to be the first person to solve a rubix cube at the titanic.
This has since been debunked as a fake transcript
they were rich. they lived good lives.
@@gregoryretzlaff7884😅😅😅😅 clearly there was no god for them. He was probably helping a pro athlete win a game or something. Definitely missed the assignment on helping these poor folks.
Just imagine the helplessness you’d feel knowing that you’re almost 4 km down, you hear the cracking sounds, the alarm turns red. Not to mention the fact that they were ascending super slowly.
I get so sad when i think about that kid, imagine the anxiety descending down because he didnt even wanna go in the first place….now imagine him realizing how fucked and unlucky he was at that moment in that sub when he saw Mr. Rush get nervy himself….
They knew the risks. Don’t feel bad for them.
@@BionicPig95 The kid didn't sign up for it willingly. Him I feel bad for. The adults, whatever.
@@Roadent1241 yes he did. He felt pressured, but he still did it willingly.
@@Roadent1241 and the pressure he felt from daddy was nothing compared to the pressure that killed him lol
James Cameron mentioning in a recent interview that they could probably hear the delamination of the Titan sub looks to be proven true. How terrifying.
Yes whoever made up this fanfiction transcript made sure they incorporated what Cameron said for "credibility" . The ratio of people falling for this vs. people who think this is a huge red flag is shamefully large.
@@richardb4313ere's no "real" reason to believe either side though, other than one's desire to be on A side. A true rational personal wouldn't make a decision on the veracity of it until it's proven.
People have leaked gore pictures of famous people accidents/deaths, "confidential" messages between high ranking figures, and many other, more relevant information. So no, I wouldn't doubt this is real. But it can always be fake until confirm by trusted sources (and even then, what a "trusted source" is debatable nowadays). So why be so passionate about one side or the other? You are an example of your own comment.
@@richardb4313 I'm willing to tentatively accept this. We know that this sub failed, we know that it imploded catastrophically, the only thing we don't know yet was the cause. Yes, people may believe this, and currently I find it plausible. I appreciate there are a shamefully large number of people that will fall for claims without credible evidence, as in about 75% of the people on this planet. I find it a little surprising that so many believe things that are not plausible, for example that there is a wizard daddy in the sky that created the cosmos and earth out of nothing, many even believe this was done in six days. Back in the day folks lived to a hundred, and a global flood happened where societies that were on the planet at this time never even noticed this happening.
@@richardb4313how u know it fake Richard B
@@richardb4313 Just like your ego is shamefully large. Perhaps, you should present why you think this is made-up to help people understand why you believe it's a red flag, rather than just trying to act like you're superior than everyone? What good does it do to be so upset about it if you're not going to promote actual change?
Probably would not have made a difference, but there should have been some sort of automatic jettison of the ballast and frame at the first RTM alarm. You would have to look at the transcripts of previous dives to see if the RTM alarms were considered "normal" and ignored. They didn't jettison or attempt to ascend until the thrusters failed to retard the descent rate, which would indicate that buoyancy had already been affected, which would also seem to be indicated by the faster than normal descent rate. That fact alone should have aborted the mission at the 15 minute mark. Aborting the mission between the 15 minute mark and the 1 hour check in were probably the only opportunities to save the crew. Careful observation of the descent profile should have been protocol.
Imagine the young kid in there, how he was feeling, absolutely disgraceful
According to his mom, he actually wanted to go. He also brought a Rubik’s cube to break a World Record while down there.
It seems like the Topside knew the descent was starting too fast,but rather than forcefully requesting the sub slow the rate, they merely asked if suggesting. Was the owner the type to accept recommendations or was the crew afraid to give their opinions? Seems like an avoidable tragedy if the transcript is real
stockton replied "no we are fine" so... he was aware of it.
Being that he fired a man for bringing up safety Concerns I’d say the latter
to be fair, being that it can't handle a litle bit added descent speed and it broke, i don't think that thing not broke with the usual speed either.
@@ScreamingEagleFTWhe was not qualified to make that comment. He thought that the construction of the Titan was fine, too.
Stockton booted the engineers that gave their safety concerns and warned of the dangers, so it was most definitely the latter.
RTM: what a concept. A system that tells you that you are about to die. Amazing that anybody thought that was a reasonable substitute for verifying hull integrity BEFORE you dive. RIP all, but let's learn.
It does sound (no pun intended) like the human ear was equally able to detect issues too.
They played this off as an advancement over other subs. Forgetting of course other subs don't need such systems because they've been engineered properly and proven safe by independent agencies.
It's like the idiot lights on your car's dash that tell you that you already have a problem!
@@bobjohnson205the gear shift light in older manual cars
That's what that engineer they fired said 😂
When the acoustic hull monitoring system was explained for the first time I was flabbergasted. Because even from the optimistic description they were giving it sounded like it would give you a few seconds warning literally right before death. And it was talked about as a safety feature.
To be fair it sounds like this system did seem to give about 20 minutes of warning, the question is: why didn't they immediately ascend? They should not have needed thrusters to get up unless they were overweight
I found another video where they did a dive and they apparently were unable to ascend, so this is not a new thing at all. They likely either had a defective system for dropping ballast or were way overweight
@@davedoe6445when we built sub we test their hull and know what’s their capabilities is and we test 20 percent more than designated depth and we forge them from strong durable material , the idea of building acoustic moniters to tell us that ur hull is failing is reallly reflective of the harsh reality of the poor design they had , I gotta admit it worked for dozens of times but it is not as recyclable or durable like titanium or steel
@@midokhalil1558no it should have been a metal sphere, the design was just plain unsafe. It was very unethical of them to sell commercial tickets for such an experimental craft
@@davedoe6445 well rush managed to get around that by calling them a mission specialist and having them to carry a bucket or tight a nut with a wrench and he named their participation as financing science endeavors, and he let them know it was experimental, it did work but I agree it was an unsafe design I would not do it and I will be 100 percent safe in a titanium sphere or steel sphere , even if it was from titanium the cylinder design will be subjugated to stress points around the welds area and nuts and could fail if not tested and also it would have been a really costly approach that rush himself was trying to avoid
I read that each time the vessel dove it effected the structural integrity of the carbon fibers themselves, hence just a matter of time.
Whether or not this transcript is authentic, I just wanted to say that it was presented and broken down very well.
Idk jack about subs but it wouldn't seem odd to me at all if the desent is faster as they start and are shallower then slow down the deeper they get. If that is true then this breakdown start saying they were going to fast is bunked.
Same
You’re obviously a product of main stream media 😂 you muppet.
He could be meaning two different things by too fast. I don’t know anything about water or subs, but I guess the pressure that mounts as you descent can increase the rate of speed. And if they had full ballast early that helps increase it even more. If they had gone the normal rate of speed required and typically followed by as shown in the video maybe there wouldn’t have been the crackling as they descended. And because of the quick descent pressure mounted too quickly to distribute the weight possibly.
Still though I don’t get why (following the maybe real transcript) they didn’t change their velocity when suggested by top after they checked their speed.
i feel like its fake ... first the depths are off and i dont think this would be due to a defect ... also multiple sources said the rtm sucks and its foresight was over emphasized by the company. Also many experts claimed the sub would implode near instant - unabling the crew to "hear cracks"
I was a Submariner who had the best metals to protect us. To think they went in Carbon fiber just boogles my mind. We trained and trained and qualified on our ships for far less money than they did just to joy ride. It's sad to think that people who know what's right weren't consulted or ignored.
Ignored, dismissed and fired.
I very seriously doubt the Navy qualified anything for a $1M. To have actually built this right, and capable of having 5-6 passengers with all primary/redundant safety systems, certified for use with all top-notched trained and certified personnel for operations, would likely cost $50-100M. I could understand why the DESIRED choice of CF given its strength per mass, resulting in an overall less weight per volume and then payload capacity...But, in the end it was plain stupid though. The Navy OTOH has a virtual "unlimited" budget for such things in comparison.
The ceo said he didn't want white veterans. He wanted young kids
The last item they jettisoned was the frame, which may have provided some structural strength to the vessel. Ascending without it may have caused too much flex in the tube-shaped carbon fiber hull, which most likely had microscopic fractures.
"Inspiring diversity" was a good cover story for his cost cutting. How much did the "50 year old white guy" sub vets demand in salary, and how quickly would said vets have punched Rush in the nose after seeing his shoddy operation?
Thank you for making this understandable for the uneducated like me! I enjoy learning about this incident, but I am NOT scientifically or mathematically inclined. I have always been more artistic, but I realize the importance and the trauma to the families, and why this should never have been allowed to happen. Rich men can be reckless, but I feel sorry for the young man who went just to please his father. That is heartbreaking.
Exactly what I thought with respect to hull taking on water to where it weighted them down to the point the thrusters could not overcome the extra weight of water. Could it explain why they descended too fast? Maybe it took on water early on the ride out to the drop sight??
Basically this is as James Cameron described it, the crackling described in the transcript is the carbon farber delaminating which water then ingresses and is likely the crackling sound they heard and why they had power failures on the vertical thrust unit. If this is genuine this would have been unimaginably terrifying for the entire crew, impending death. Sheer terror, I do hope the boy and his dad in this awful moment have the presence of mind to embrace and hold each other in those last moment. It's so very sad.
That's what I was thinking about the father & son. Supposedly the son went still trying to get his father to love him so maybe the father finally said, "I love you" and they were at peace❤
@@jillsy2815this was a horrible event let’s be careful with fanfiction.
@@HazeLmaowhy do we need to be careful?
"Happy Father's Day"
It happened in .03 seconds. The rate of the delamination would have very rapid at the depth with the pressure.
I'm a US Navy sub veteran, served four years on one of the 637-class fast-attack submarines. NEC 3354. We had several near misses; it's why we called our boat "the boat from Hell." On three separate occasions, I didn't just think we were dead, I flat-out knew it. Hell, ALL of us knew we were done... but somehow we all managed to survive each without so much as a scratch. SMH.
I can tell you, when you're in that situation... when you know you're in deep sh!t, time seems to slow down, you suddenly become more aware of things, perceptually. The sense of fear, that comes with the knowledge that you're about to be crushed, will in one way make you want to freeze, yet in another way make you want to scream and run around like a lunatic...
The crackling sounds combined with the RTM system going full red, and the inability to ascend...? Yeah, they knew what was coming. And once it became clear, that they were done...?
You make your peace with God, say a final prayer, perhaps ask God to look after your loved ones, because you won't be there... and then you wait. Because that's all you CAN do... At least they had enough time to make their peace with God.
I decided against Nuke and went with electronics instead (hated physics, loved math). Thank you for your insight. Sub riders have the best stories.
I appreciate your comment. I also pray they had enough time to make peace with their creator. I just can’t truly fathom how terrifying this must have been for them. Your comment opened my eyes a little bit. Thank you for your service, to both of you.
So what could be the reason of the slow ascent ? Change on the buyancy equation ? Water ingress in the back compartment ? This would have titled the sub no ? If these comms are the only data transmitted (depth and time stamp) it would indicate a piss poor design and implementation. Nothing relative to the horizontal and vertical position of the sub ? They are in pitch black environement for god^s sake how can they judge they are levelled out ? Jeez that whole operation looks like a dinky toy game gone bad.
my guess is those atheists would be praying too
US Navy sub zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz What were you saying? I fell
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Every trip down the structural integrity was being degraded. It wasn't like "Maybe it will be damaged this trip." It is an inescapable fact that the carbon fiber hull had an expiration date. He was warned. He was stupid or suicidal.
The carbon fiber he bought from Boeing was literally expired. According to Boeing, it was no longer suitable for use in aircraft, let alone submarines. Rush falsely claimed that several companies (including Boeing) were involved in the design and construction of his sub. He did this to build up his credibility among investors and the public. Boeing cleared that up later on with a statement that they had sold Rush the (expired) composite and that was it. They were not involved in any other way.
not only that the carbon fiber had an expiration date, apparently he used carbon fiber that was already expired just to save money
Once water seeps into the lamination layers it causes a snow ball separation of the layers resulting in complete failure. The sub was doomed with the first crackling sounds.
The reason James Cameron was reasonably certain the sub had imploded, was because he was informed that they had lost contact with both communication systems simultaneously.
And cos he knew Stockton Rush was an idiot and a rogue who took unnecessary risks
@@littleangel18 That may not be true. In his media statements he said he thought they had "fixed the problems" and wished he had been more publicly vocal about the criticism of risk for that design. At least, that's what he said on CNN or some other channel.
the navy knew when it happened so why did they let the farce continue.
He had inside information (probably from military sources, which is why he was vague) that military microphones had picked up the implosion.
@@tyeck5502 No. His source was the very small Deep Sea Exploration community. They are all experts in their field, and refer to each other for knowledge and feedback. I believe the number of people in this community is around or below 100 individuals.
You can find all the facts from watching the actual interviews James Cameron did, after the Coastguard Admiral in charge declared that they had found wreckage and concluded it imploded.
James Cameron went on many news interviews, such as with CNN, BBC and NBC.
I’ve worked with engineers like Stockton. They are so sure of themselves and no one else compares to their brilliance. Anyone else pales in comparison thus any concerns by them are of no importance.
Sounds like a narcisist
Pure f’n hubris
Ditto.
I'll wind back a little. They are sure they are right, AND they have a significant personal interest in the financial success of the project. That is well known to be a, literally, lethal mixture.
If you look at Stockton's background, you will see he was a pilot. He was never an engineer.
It's a real common trait I think
I can’t imagine the horror of what the crew went thru. May God have mercy on there souls.
“Crew” 😢
"have had mercy" becuase He already did or did not. . . . .
Splitting hairs are we..?@@atgblue1
Same occurs with a drysuit from my personal experience in cold dark Alaska waters at 103 feet. The drysuit is a closed environment like a sub, but if any water gets in, you will begin to lose ascent capability. If it's a hole, you must tie it off or in other way close it, and then add air to suit. First thing I would think if I added usual air qty to suit for ascent to 1st stage decompression stop and it was not going well, or at expected rate is that I have water infiltrating "somewhere". I can't imagine the horror of having that occur at the depth and pressure they were at, no matter how good the submersible I was in. May they rest in Peace. From this video, alone, I would say blame falls on whomever was controlling the descent. Things need time to adjust to increasing pressures, you can't just hammer it on.
This seems more realistic to me than what’s been told that they had NO warning. If they dropped ballast it means they DID know, and it was found quite a distance away from the actual debris.
What makes you think they dropped the ballast?
@@Ample17 "it was found quite a distance away from the actual debris"
@@Ample17 They said they dropped it in the transcript...
@@skullface691 You mean the transcript that is in no way confirmed and could be completely made up?
@@skullface691this isn’t an actual transcript. It’s a fabrication. Also if it imploded it can send the ballast flying from the point of implosion
Well, you talked me out of any sub rides. I worked in the elevator business for 30 years and Thyssen Krupp Elevators put carbon fiber hoist ropes on a lot of their new elevators. All the hoist ropes broke on an elevator and it dropped, safeties caught it. But Thyssen had to go all over the country replacing carbon fiber hoist ropes with steel hoist ropes, they couldn't stand the repetition.
JFC, buddy. You may have just kickstarted my diet to walk up stairs wherever possible.
A steel company using carbon fiber ropes? Go figure...
Think I'll be taking the stairs from now on...
@@topsteve9898 Especially if it's you doing the ground-breaking when it goes wrong!
You'd likely be fine in one of the metal subs. It was just foolish to use carbon fiber as the material for the pressure hull. No one else has been that stupid.
Theory:To hull was already compromised at the start of the descent. The aft got flooded during the descent with un-pressurized water and it the pressure equalized during the descebt between the aft and the exterior. The cabin imploded later. The sensors placement were faulty from the get-go not being able to detect such a scenario. This would explained the fast descent and slow ascent
An amazing video, that is always chilling to watch--it does get the imagination running---how we would feel in that position etc.
Have the transcripts ever been verified? It may take years, I suppose, to know that, but I am curious.
The only redeeming factor in this whole tragedy is that Rush was onboard. He built that deathtrap. He fired people who wanted to make it safe. He took shortcuts. He put other people's lives at risk. If he had not been onboard, it's almost a guarantee that he would have found a way to blame the crew for the destruction of his submarine. He would have found a way to build another and continue to risk other's lives.
This tragedy stops all that. It's horrific that he had to take some innocent and courageous people with him, but at least those will be the last people he kills.
the people that got on that death trap were not courageous they were stupid.
@@biff3917 they were lied to. If someone you perceive as intelligent, dynamic and an adventurous explorer tells you something is safe AND he's going with you, it's easy to get lost in his fantasy and fall for his lies and deception. They were foolish to believe him, but not stupid.
When the media was still lying about "maybe they have air" I hoped that the passengers would have offed Rush first if they knew they were going to suffocate
@@slayer8actual, pretty despicable thing to say, in my opinion.
So they had 20 minutes notification that something was wrong .Hope the other 4 had plenty of time to punch Stockton on the nose or break his neck.
Here’s a summary I found of what happened based on the transcript (assuming it is real):
1. Water works it's way into the voids in the carbon fiber. They had sprayed the exterior of the CF wrap with Rhino Liner used in truck beds. If that outer shell breached that would let water in which could in turn fill cracks and voids in the CF hull.
2. That water ingress added weight which accelerated their decent, making pressure on the hull (already damaged) build faster than expected.
3. They try and slow decent but now they're heavy and dropping ballast isn't enough. They decide to go nuclear and drop the landing frame off the bottom.
4. Something goes wrong and they can't immediately drop the frame, meaning they continue to descend even deeper. When they finally get it free they're only rising at 25% the rate they expect.
5. It's too late, and the hull fails by the rear mounting ring and sub implodes.
6. The support ship factors in that 25% ascent rate and waits 8 hours before calling for help, hoping the electrical system failed and they're still slowly rising.
Concur with all point except they might not have had water ingress if the hull was being compressed. That could reduce buoyancy rather a lot. I can imagine failure of the end cap attachment in which the fiber yields and buckles locally in the retaining ring, and you lose several inches of hull length. Deformation would also explain the difficulty dropping the landing frame.
Also explains why the recovered landing frame was undamaged if it was dropped before the implosion.
I think you nailed it. They had water intrusion into the AFT, which sped up their descent. They should have noticed speed and aborted on the down much earlier. With that intrusion, the ascent was way too slow. 20 minutes in terror.....
I wonder if dropping the landing frame was difficult because the craft was already deformed.
6. Good explanation for the delay!
yea … water ingress ? where ? The only points that could really have any ingress without it being visibly obvious is where the end rings mate to the pressure hull. There isn’t enough room anywhere there to have that drastic a weight change. There isn’t any way you wouldn’t notice the amount of water it would take to cause that rapid a decent coming into the vessel. The pressure hull buckled or the adhesive used to affix the end rings was squeezed over multiple dives causing its most likely brittle cured state to cause the ring to “come unglued” as it were
What was the time stamp on the implosion signal from the USN hydrophone net?
The boat was heavy from the get go. They towed the sub on a small raft in heavy seas. This is where I think the damaged occurred and presumably water added a fatal amount of weight. You would think just weighing the sub could be a good check on its dive worthyness. You’re dropping it in the ocean with five victims aboard and you don’t know for sure how heavy it is and how fast it will sink? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I used to work as a commercial diver, diving confined space. I remember losing air once and trying to get back to my entry point having my life flash before my eyes, thinking I had a good life and then topside restored my air. Them potentially being down there for 20 minutes thinking about the possibility of dying is gut wrenching.
My brother was in navy going to join divers. In training lost two guys and he decided not to do it. Anything can happen.
I know this may not be as dramatic, but one time I was swimming and came up under the plastic pool cover. No air gap, no matter how hard I pushed on it. The panic was involuntary.
Well the people should of been informed that it was risky!
@@tonyvelasquez6776 how else can it be done ? Wires have to enter at some point right ? How is it done on James Cameron’s vessel
Hell, watching the 16 minutes of this was suspenseful enough let alone being down there for 20 minutes doing/hearing all that. Wow. Just wow.
Also, thanks for sharing your story. Sounds like you’re a true survivor!
I don’t believe all those people knew how many problems were with this sub. As a Boilermaker myself there is no way I would have trusted that carbon fibre he was told the risks and you can be sure these people on board didn’t know that risk. The way the titanium end caps glued on to me was outrageous What a sad story.
I think carbon fiber could have worked, but they were lazy and reckless about its implementation. There was absolutely no consideration of galvanic corrosion of the titanium. I'm sure there's a right way to use carbon fiber for this, but that takes time, money, expertise, and deliberate critical thought, and that's not something the CEO seemed interested in.
Not when there’s a “professional” with extreme credentials telling you that it’s safe you’re more inclined
They definitely had an idea of the risks, did you see the contract they signed?
sounds like Rush was high as a kite in love with 'the new'
@@deryk2002au 90% sure they just glanced over and didn't read the papers.
This was really interesting and my first video of yours. I can’t imagine the passengers hearing what’s going on and knowing it wasn’t normal. It’s not like there was a cockpit. That had to be horrific.
You analysis makes perfect sense. If the aft section was taking on water that would explain the higher rate of descent, failing batteries, very slow ascent and then hull failure.
The crews arrogance was continuing with a higher than normal rate of descent.
The implication in the question by the control ship
"Do you need to adjust velocity?" The control team was aware the sub was descending too fast
And yet, instead of coming right out and SAYING exactly that to him, Stockton Rush had made everyone involved so afraid to disagree with him (for fear of being fired) that the support team worded it as a question, asking him *IF* he needed to adjust velocity.
If he hadn’t replaced all the level headed people with “yes men” they would’ve told him straight out that they needed to adjust their velocity right at the beginning, when they were still close enough to the surface to be saved.
Some say he didn't like getting discouraging messages from the surface ship. Yes men'd to death,
What are you gonna do when your boss is down there telling you it's fine.. And he has a history already of firing whistle blowers... yikers
@@Vmurph That's what the a-holes who crash companies always do. I've worked for a few of them. When you see one of them 'moving up' in your company, it's always good to keep your resume up to date!
@@Barb4sale I'm telling my boss the truth and what I think. If he disagrees, that's okay. If he needs to shoot the messenger, and fire me because the truth hurts, then that's his problem. At least I won't have the deaths of five people on my conscience. I'd rather not work for companies and leaders like that in any case.
I cannot imagine being “trapped” that deep underwater with no way to control my outcome. I would think for some if not the entire crew that it was terrifying for those 19 minutes. 19 minutes is a long time to have millions of thoughts and scenarios running through your mind. I am so sorry that this happened to them.
I think when people know they might die, they pray.
I was in a few very dire situations in my life (life in real and direct danger), and felt then almost tangible presence of God. So I think most people naturally pray when they think their end is near. And you kind of see your life before your eyes, like a recap of what it's all worth. I can't imagine what else you can do, prayer comes natural in that momens, at least I hope that is for other people as well. 🙏
Hope someone brought a gun in case to end it all quickly
@@joane24 That is what I was thinking..... 19 minutes to get your life right with God if nothing else.
So scary to think about!
this is fake and was uploaded to get views, you fell for it
Glad you're on this. If not we would never know what happened May they RIP
just uploaded and update video tonight
@@jeffostroffdid they ever validate this transcript?
The term, “a rush job”, takes on new meaning after this disaster.
He made a Bouch of it.
This puts a whole different perspective in my mind. I was thinking they were descending peacefully and then the implosion occurred spontaneously and everyone went in a millisecond, without knowing anything was really wrong. But watching this video opened my eyes. I can’t possibly imagine just how fearful I would be knowing the submersible I was in was having an emergency and nothing was working right. I wouldn’t wanna spend my last thoughts before death panicking like that…
lol!
My father was involved in a couple "close calls" on a submarine when he was in the Navy, on subs for 20 years, and he said that you go into a mode where you are trying to fix the problem (relying on their training) so you don't really accept that it's happening at the time. When they got out of trouble, that's when they took a deep breath and freaked out! lol.
They ascended so fast, and at an angle that was the max for the sub, one time, that the sub surfaced and slammed back down so hard that it went 54 feet under water again before coming up and resting on the surface. He said the digital readout of their depth was moving so fast you couldn't read 2 of the 4 digits during their ascent.
@@orvil9223But I don’t think everyone would have had a job. I think maybe two people would have been frantically trying to fix stuff, but what? They had an elevator button and PlayStation remote? They whole thing is so tragic. Crazy about your dad. I can’t imagine the horror.
I was thinking about in aviation how pilots aren’t supposed to communicate in a crisis really to ATC because they are supposed to be aviating. I think this was just another example of how this operation wasn’t up to par in a way. How did they not know they were descending too fast almost immediately when they had done it so many times. They should have known how deep they should be for every time interval.
@@Artsygoons I agree, but, I'm sure that the boss man, as much of an idiot as he was, wasn't letting on how serious the problem was. None of them were so experienced they understood implosion and how it happens, etc. So, when it happened, it was quick - they happen in like a millisecond.
@@Artsygoons As a matter of fact - I just found this. Someone did an example of the submersible imploding. czcams.com/users/shorts-BYN1lKdduc
As one who suffers from claustrophobia, this story is scarier than anything ever - aside from maybe being buried alive in a casket. What a horrible, horrible situation.
on the upside (if one can even call it an upside...), aside from the terror of hearing the sub slowly tear itself apart before implosion, death itself would have been utterly instantaneous, and I mean that in the truest sense -- a fraction of a blink of an eye, quite possibly faster than any other human death in recorded history save for those in the immediate blast radius of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. far, far better than being buried alive and slowly suffocating, albeit still a horrible, terrible way to go. needless deaths just for the trend of 'extremophile tourism'.
Yeah, it almost tops the nutty putty cave incident.
My nightmare
I don't even want to be buried in a casket when I die!! I'm getting cremated and dumped in a mud puddle or thrown in a creek lol.
Same here / actually makes me queasy seeing those photos of people inside the submersible. No way I could even get into that thing even if it was on land - I’d seriously have a major panic attack.
Hi I agree with your assessment that they descended too quickly but you have calculated the average rate of descent not the instantaneous descent rate at that time. They could have slowed down or increased the descent rate in between communication check points. A more accurate method would be to calculate the average descent rate using all the actual position/time points in the communications log so we would essentially get a step function that describes the descent rate. Then this descent rate could be compared to the acceptable descent rate. The reason it is important is because the hydrostatic pressure increases linearly with depth so a fast descent rate from surface to 700 meters is not the same danger as it would be from 700 to 1400 and so on hence knowing the descent rate between communication increments would be more accurate than calculating the average descent rate from the initial time they first began the descent.
@chrisb1047 you should calculate those numbers and post them in your comment. That would be informative.
37,39,39,44 Meters per minute at each reporting. They were accelerating.
At 10:30 in the video, the message from the sub in the transcript at 9:43:42 says: quarter predicted. What does this statement mean?
It means that the ascent rate is a quarter or 1/4 of what it is supposed to be, most likely because the vessel was too heavy.
@@typicaloofers Thank you for clarifying.
Like you mentioned.... In an interview on CNN James Cameron said that he had heard on good authority that they dropped their ballast and were ascending. He also mentioned that they had probably heard the carbon fiber cracking "with their own ears". (This really stuck with me because I didn't hear that anywhere else.) So he has probably read this transcript. He said that he learned this from "people in the community." I think that gives weight to this being real. I must say, the message "crackling sound aft" and the final message "more sounds aft" gave me the chills. Edit: It's at the very end of his interview with Anderson Cooper.
OR the person who faked this transcript saw the James Cameron interview like everyone else 🤔
@@chrisd6736 They have the right text format and the right names of the crew members. It's very unlikely it is fake.
Yup, saw the same interview! Add to that I didn't see any videos of other dives where they had that many (5) large people in the sub. That's a lot of weight too.😬
From what the news reported, there were indications that the sub dropped ballast at one point as preparation for re-ascending. Seems like they may have heard signs of structural distress and were trying to surface.
The implosion may have killed them beyond immediately, but looks like they knew something was going wrong.
Yeah, I’d have to guess so.
Yea just imagine hearing that creepy noise of steel bending little by little at first until it just caves in in an instant. Bet they were terrified
@@TheLilE1993 Not the first time the sub made strange sounds according to this person:
czcams.com/video/n40ukuk9Ay4/video.html
Forgot the timestamp when he talks about it at some point in the video, that thing was like a Russian roulette, only that the customers didn't know they were playing it but I have to say it was very irresponsible of them to get inside that thing when you look at the wording of the waivers they had to sign, I like to think that my survival instincts would have kicked in and I would have looked for experts opinions first... it seems like many are coming out now, after the fact, about how unsafe that thing really was but the warning signs were there all along. I feel bad for the kid.
Did you even watch the video?
@@mrxxsesshomaruxx9642 the kid is the only one i feel bad for. couldn't care less if some rich prick dies, and the worst part about the CEO dying is that it wasn't slow.
Crazy to go down to titanic in a beer can...😢
I've watched this video at least 20 times.... I think I'm drawn to it because it really captures the imagination, and I can feel the emotional rollercoaster that they must have been on during this intense last couple hours of their lives. I know it's not an official transcript, but even if it's fake, it's probably similar to what they went through. Rest in peace guys.
They knew for a long time before the end that they were doomed. Sub had structure integrity alarms so it would have been warning them of imminent catastrophic failure.
I just watched an interview yesterday with Karl Stanely who said when he went down on the Titan it made shotgun like sounds the entire way down, and continued to have the shotgun like blasts all the way back up to 300 feet. Its what made him send Stockton Rush an email stating he didn't have a marketable product and bringing in passengers was a bad idea even though they were living in the same house.
Yes it's true, but after that warning from Karl Stanley Stockton made repairs on the hull to avoid the loud popping sounds.
@DKFX1 his repairs weren't good enough unfortunately
The "shotgun" noise is called delamination crackle. It's quite literally the carbon fiber ripping apart. Rush knew exactly what he was doing. He murdered those passengers.
It’s pretty messed up that depending what news outlet aired Kens interview, many cut out that part about Stockton acting on it, including cancelling dives and getting a new 1mil carbon fiber hull replacement. Some news outlets keep changing the context of the interview. Many don’t differentiate from normal sounds Stockton talked about to extreme sounds. I’ve been keeping track in Evernote with dated links and hilighted interviews.
I dont think it matters if Stockton made some repairs after Stanley told him he could literally hear the sub tearing apart the entire time when that material shouldn’t be used in the first place for a sub. That’s the point. Stockton knew he shouldn’t use carbon fiber, people told him he shouldn’t use it, the sub tearing itself apart told him he shouldn’t use it, but he did anyway. Amongst a series of other things that made the sub completely unsafe for people to be inside of. I don’t care if he fixed it, he was entirely in the wrong and entirely knew it. He just didn’t care
Just something I remember from another "deep sea dive" from years ago.
The vessel was ball shaped and had metal weights on the outside of it held there with electro magnets.
These weights are what caused it to descend into the water among other things.
The cool thing here is, IF they lost all power the electro magnets would no longer hold the weights to the vessel and it would automatically ascend at a predetermined speed.
That sounds like a neat safety feature! I like the RSV Alvin's safety feature myself - the crew compartment is actually an escape pod, and it's the rear part of the submersible that weighs it down. If they jettison the escape pod, it goes up to the surface automatically because it doesn't weigh enough to stay down there.
That's a very cool and ingenious safety feature.
@@waffle_burger8499 It is nothing new if you look at the design of the Trieste [first submersible to go to bottom of Challenger Deep in 1960] it used steel shot for ballast held in two hoppers. Shot was kept from escaping by electromagnets, which allowed it to be released slowly or if in case of electrical failure all at once.
@@carlrossi7989 Then it's even sadder that something like this was not implemented on the Titan! :(
That would use an enormous amount of electricity though, so I doubt it's true. Electricity on these subs is a sacred resource, that's why they all descend under gravity with lights off.
How was the sub communicating with the boat? I am not aware of the system that can communicate at that depth. Please inform me.
You do great videos. I live right by the towers in Surfside and you did great videos on it.
I think it would be interesting If you read the transcripts from other dives, that had to be aborted to see what the communication was like. Maybe, then you can decipher if what they were saying seemed more desperate or if it was how they’ve communicated in the past
good luck getting a hold of those logs. i resent that they are keeping everything a secret.
@@ScreamingEagleFTWBecause it’s an active investigation, if a plane crashes they don’t immediately tell everyone in the world the answer unless it’s an obvious safety recall to ground those particular airliners until they can verify that they are safe. This idea that people are suddenly hiding things from the vast majority of the planet has always been the case in investigations, it’s just now with social media we want instant gratification. It’s like people assume it’s a conspiracy of hiding information from people like us that frankly don’t have a right to know, the families do, the crew topside do, the rest of the submersible industry does which will come with a set of minimum standards that have to be met now. It’s not about you or I.
The most heart-wrenching aspect of all this was the young man that didn't want to take the ill-fated journey.
Actually, he did want to go. His mom was supposed to be the one riding along with dad, but the young man showed interest and expressed that he really wanted to go. With her son's excitement and it being father's day, mom gave her ticket to him and told him to have fun. I believe it was his aunt that had come forward saying he never wanted to go, he just felt obligated to join because of fathers day. I later watched an interview with the mom and her story was completely different... Honestly, it doesn't matter if aunt was right by saying he didn't want to go or if mom was right by saying he did want to go. He went and it didn't end well. I'd love to say "this was a freak accident that NOBODY saw coming!" but that would be incorrect... He (Stockton Rush) was warned by multiple people on multiple separate occasions that his logic was flawed and nothing good could come from his glorified trash can sealed with duck tape and gorilla glue. Along with the red flags about the submersibles point of entry and needing to use a drill to insert in 11 screws even though there was 12 holes. When asked about why the 12th screw wasn't put in, he brushed it off with "well there's 11 there. 1 extra screw isn't going to make a difference. I take safety very seriously!" If he took safety seriously, he would have listened to EXPERTS. He would have everything checked/tested/certified. He would have listened when EXPERTS explained compromised structure with multiple materials. And the fact that he kept recruiting young adults because he wanted to be inspirational and prove that you don't have to be a white man in your 50s to be an expert. Yes, it's good to inspire the future generation and occasionally take some risks, but it's like he NEVER ONCE considered that maybe the reason middle aged are the only ones that are deemed experts is because IT TAKES YEARS TO STUDY!! Believe it or not, not all scientists are white. There are many, MANY highly successful scientists that don't have a drop of Caucasian... And the fact that Stockton Rush was a middle aged white man complaining that only middle aged white men go to dive down to the wreckage may possibly be the funniest hypocritical comment I've ever heard...
@@rondakamakahi3772Such A Know It All
Yes he did he loved the thrill of it all
Exactly he was reluctant to go
@@niblett6482 it's not a secret or difficult to read a couple articles that have been circulating or watching a couple videos about this that are still coming up with new details.
I said he did want to go, not because I'm a know it all and love spending my time telling people they're wrong, but because the wife and mother of 2 of the victims that lost their lives wanted people to know how excited they were for this experience. I can't begin to imagine how she feels and the pain she's going to carry for a long time, but she didn't have a negative thing to say and finds solace in knowing how happy they were to the very end. I've read comments like "his mom knew he didn't want to go, but forced him anyway" and "why would you allow your child to do that?" and "Giving him permission to do that? she's the one that killed him.". Why continue to spread rumors or talk about something you don't know instead of fact checking or cross referencing to get to the truth. And no, I don't have too much time on my hands, I just got decent at multitasking and making time to ensure I learn something new ("you learn something new everyday and if you don't, you weren't paying attention"). 6wks ago I didn't know the difference between a submarine and a submersible, 45 seconds later, I did! All the other crap was added because of my ADHD squirrellous brain thinking "ooh, time for fun facts?! Hold my submersible game controller and stand back!" And before I know it, I'm working on the 6th installment of my million page essay and being called a know it all... I've been called way worse and not at all offended. Maybe more surprised than anything because I don't think that's one I've been called before... Kudos! I'm not surprised often! Probably because the whole know it all thing... Maybe you got a point, Little Giblet. Still... It takes one to know one. because I'm a 5yo know it all that has more pride for you than your mama does... we can swap if you'd like. My mom made me this way...😅
When calculating how much ballast they needed, Stockton had everyone stand on a scale while holding their gear. This was shown in one of the videos they produced where you can see people standing on an electronic scale. The only problem with this is the scale was placed on a carpet. Electronic scales will measure weight as being less than it actually is when placed on a carpet, and it doesn't take a thick carpet to cause measurements to be 30-40lbs light. With 5 people on board I wonder if that was a contributing factor.
Good point but this might need confirmation on the brand/model of scale? I have seen this happen with cheaper scales which basically measure only weight on their "feet" pads, so that the carpet pile will lend some undesired support to the bottom surface rather than on the feet. But some "electronic" scales are more like older scales where the entire bottom surface is a solid "pad", so it wouldn't matter exactly where it's supported.
Given the nature of this vessel, I question why it wasn't a tethered sub like ARGO. You could still have lateral thrusters for poking around the ship at depth, but a tether gives you a 99% guaranteed ride to the surface at speed.
Yeah they were not able to ascend while the hull was failing because the battery system failed
Yeah they were not able to ascend while the hull was failing because the battery system failed
My dad called this from the beginning. He said that due to the “early warning system” they would have known at some point that the vessel was in critical danger. How much time between then and the implosion is impossible to know for sure but if these are legit transcripts then it seems that he was right. I can’t imagine that dread.
He’s an aerospace engineer that has also worked on navy ships and my grandfather was a submariner. He called it as soon as the vessel was reported as missing.
Also I mean, carbon fiber? Yeesh.
@@TracchofyreWould seem like the logical progression 😂
@@Tracchofyre no. A failure and a disappointment lol 🤷♀️
My other gpop was an Air Force pilot in WW2 tho
@@notaperson9831 hey, i think you're worthwhile
@@Tracchofyrehe’s a 35 year old hardcore gamer that never leave his room
😭😭 Oh I feel you
As an engineer you couldn't pay me enough money to get aboard this death trap.
I appreciate this presentation and did a good job highlighting this disaster. I pray the family finds peace.
Same here. As a mechanical engineer who made the windows for the Lockheed Orion spacecraft, I err on the side of caution TO THE EXTREME. High/low pressure environments are not to be trifled with.
@@jimheimerl1637 Wow, that's an achievement to post on a resume. I'm also a mechanical engineer. I work for a power company specifically in steam power generation.
Pay a quarter million, sign a waver and have yourself sealed in a death trap, bolted shut from the outside. I thought I did stupid things with my money. I would never ever have entered that sub, not for a million dollars. To go watch a shipwreck where hundreds of people died. And call it the Titan. Bad karma much?
@@jimheimerl1637 Ha ha... wow! You engineered some windows for a fake space craft. Amazing! So smart you are. Look up and see the pretty lights... NASA is Hollywood East and just hires dumb engineers to do dumb useless vanity projects to inject money into the economy. Wake up!
I know nothing about engineering, but the word "composite" would have done it for me.
My thoughts is the carbon fiber was becoming slowly saturated with water which would inherently explain why they had problems ascending. That would also explains the sound heard in the back of the sub. I would be curious after each dive did they weigh the sub to find out if any gain, water pentation of water into the carbon fiber that the naked eye couldn’t see. A similar thing happened to the tale of a commercial aircraft which was made of carbon fiber. Inside the tale was a hydraulic ram to move the tailback and forth. Not visible from outside the aircraft hydraulic fluid was leaking into the carbon fiber and saturated into the section of the tail which had a catastrophic failure plane crashed. They found the best way to find if the carbon fiber was becoming weak was physically tapping on the carbon fiber areas with 25¢ Piece to listen to the sound it made and when it became a soft lite thud, that meant that. Carbon fiber was saturated with liquid such as hydraulic and it was a soft spot in the carbon fiber matrix to create another failure. The coin test was more accurate than ex rays.
They do that tapping on bike frames too. Those can be repaired.
I always wondered about the aft part of this sub, about all the machinery in there, how they made sure that all this worked since it was not protected from the water pressure like the part of the hull they where sitting in.
Stockton was way too cavalier with other people's lives.
I mostly feel sorry for the 19 year old young man who didn't really want to go. His last 20 minutes of his life must have been sheer terror!
I would imagine he was clinging onto his father for dear life telling him he loves him. Poor kid...
he wanted to go so he could make a video solving a rubik's cube at the underwater graveyard ..... er Titanic. his mom confirmed he was not scared, just tryin to get internet famous
He actually took the seat his mother was going to use. Turns out the info that he didn't want to go came from his estranged aunt. His mother gave him her seat because she said he really did want to go. I don't know.
@@MidnightMajestyHe did in fact get internet fame …. as a victim caught up in an avoidable tragedy.
I bet he was screaming at his dad, “why the hell did you let me get on this death trap!”
So they had 20 minutes notification that something was wrong .Hope the other 4 had plenty of time to punch Stockton on the nose or break his neck.
That loud bang heard on the previous voyage is what should have stopped him on his tracks, but it didn't. The fast descent on the doomed journey right from the start shows that the sub was already compromised before going under. Dropping the ballast didn't slow down the descent, and dropping the frame just made them stand still. The crew on the ship didn't say anything about the fast descent, which is another fail. They just ignored every warning all down the line, like maniacs. The CEO knew how accurate the RTM was, and seeing all red for every sensor means that he knew he was seconds from death.
Every dive the titan made passengers reported crackling sounds which clearly was the carbon fiber hull breaking down with every dive titan made until boom the hull imploded. The main reason they even put that noise monitoring system in the sub was due to the previous cracking noises. So the titan should have been retired after its first dive. Pretty messed up you could hear the cracking every dive it made and they kept using it. Stockton even said on video every deep dive sub makes noises.......no no they don't especially cracking noises you can hear with your naked ear. It was clearly the epoxy or glue in between the layers of carbon fiber breaking apart.
Obviously the RTM was an untested system in this application in these depths. If all indicators are red they know that something is wrong (which is clear due to the cracking sounds).But they do not know that they are just seconds from implosion. Anyways a very scary situation.
Well to be fair, the crew on the ship did exactly what they were hired to do. Ignore the problems and say nothing unless it’s exactly what Rush wanted to hear.
Perhaps the RTM system detects the sound of breaking carbon fibers and this cracking sound will happen for a short while before the hull eventually gives in. However strange noone was reating on the decending speed. They should know exact how fast it was supossed to be decend.
What then would account for the increased weight and the ineffectiveness of dropping ballasts?
How do you deduce there was already serious damage to the sub from it's initial high descent speed alone?
Really good video. You did a much better job than the quick guess and broadcast and then move on mass media ever does....
Was the communication realtime? So that each character typed was received. Or did they have to type the entire message then hit the send button?
Knowing how the owner was not super concerned with safety regulations I have to imagine after having completed a few successful dives he grew comfortable and went too fast
wanted to put on a show for the high profile guests
@@mr0x1 his ego probably got bruised by all the negative press from the fired engineer so he wanted to prove that the sub was safe so he got reckless and careless cause he had a chip on his shoulder.
He was an arrogant prick and got what he deserved, too bad he had to take innocents down with him...
What I find astonishing is that Topside was like "Oh you're descending twice the speed you should be? Excellent! Fantastic! Superb! Glorious! Beautiful! Stellar! Amazing! Heartwarming! Inspiring! Happy crew!"
Nobody was like "You're going too fast. Slow descent."
Because the reply would've been "report to HR." The CEO was a living cautionary tale against hubris.
In this outfit, it seems if you are a fifty year old white guy, or speak up, you get fired. Just like the engineering director who got fired for voicing his safety concerns. Looky here, the guy who got fired, and who could have prevented this fiasco, was a fifty year old white guy, with decades of submarine and engineering experience. Who'd have thunk it? Weird. Still, diversity is our strength, right?
Cause that would have been a pink slip. If you show free will he fires you.
Maybe this is an indication that it’s a fake transcript
@@Ardepark From all accounts I've heard, this is exactly what he would do. the faster he got down there the better, like a kid going to get ice cream.
That was well done. And coming from a disciplined engineer to me makes it much more interesting. Thanks
Ron. A new fan. Subscribed
Welcome aboard!
As a very simple engineer the number of dubious decisions is mind boggling. Just one of many items I cannot get an answer is whether the the carbon hull was even autoclaved (essential for CF to achieve it's full strength).
I’ve heard it wasn’t.
I imagine 19 minutes would seem like an eternity in that situation. I feel sick just thinking about it. I was locked in a storage room once without my radio communicator. I remember just pacing for about 10 minutes completely okay and then the sudden realization that I'm on the Night Watch in a Hotel, it's 10:30pm and 95% of the staff have gone home crept in like a knife.
How did you get out?
Yeah how did you get out?
@@Deathworg1 He didn't, he's still in there. Luckily he could connect to wifi from inside the storage closet.
@@-cosmicrogue- I was banging the door and shouting and one of the patrons heard it, called recepetion and they came and found out. Maintainence took the handle off the door (which should usually open both ways) without telling me so I could pull the door open from the outside, but had no way of opening it from the inside as it was a fire door. I was in there for 34 minutes, but it felt like a lifetime when the panic set in and I realized it would've been 6am when the morning staff would have come in.
@@tylerchambers6246😂😂😂
Thank you so much for the fascinating information you’ve compiled. Someone somewhere knows exactly what happened. Hopefully that will be released to gain knowledge for the future. May God bless their souls. ✝
“Activating recovery procedures“… there was no recovery procedure, there was no contingency plan and there was no hope.
It’s rather ironic that speed might have been a shared downfall for both the Titanic and the Titan submersible. Historians speculate that the Titanic was going too fast through dangerous waters, and according to this transcript, the Titan was also speeding. History repeats itself.
titanic had a fire in one of the coal bunkers since they set off from belfast. the only way to stop it was to shovel all of the coal out of that bunker as fast as possible. that's why they were going so fast.
@@JTV84 I didn't know that. Interesting.
There is a 1 hour long documentary about this. They discovered the material damage from recently found photos of the Titanic showing discoloration on the side.
@@JTV84 WRONG.😂
@@JTV84source: trust me bro
Robert Ballard (the one who discovered the Titanic) said there was no reason to send manned submersibles so deep. You can view everything just as good using unmanned craft.
The reason is the experience. Even if you're sitting there looking at the cameras, it isn't the same effect as being down there seeing it. Unfortunately sometimes the experience includes being turned into meatberry jam by about 400 atmospheres of pressure.
Not so sure about that. You wouldn't be able to have a live video link, so how are you going to control it?
@@Vousie I think if there was radio communication with the surface then should be a way to send video, I don't know if the speed would be enough, but internet by radio exists.
@@DracoHandsomethey were still going to be viewing it on a monitor even though it was right in front of them.
@@DracoHandsome meatberry jam is a new one :D
Never get in a sub built with Wal-Mart and dollar store components by a cheap skate.
Thanks for a very good replay on the messaging. I think Rush knew he had a very nervous passenger in the young kid Suleman(at least from what I read) so he increased the rate of decent to shorten the dive time. Somehow the quick decent caused a leak in the aft end(or maybe the front end) and increased the weight so that when Rush decided he had better go up he had a bunch of water on board plus an electrical failure probably caused by the water leak. Just my 2 cents worth.
I think the crackling sound was the carbon fiber slowly being penetrated by water. Remember that the hull is made of layers of carbon fiber. As water found a crack and worked its way in, I think you would hear that crackling sound as the water forced apart the sheets of carbon fiber, essentially slowly ripping them apart. When a critical point was reached, the carbon fiber hull imploded basically instantly.
I'm sure Stockton Rush knew exactly what that sound was when he heard it. That's so scary.
this transcript is proven fake meaning there was no battle for 20 minuets or any attempt at successful resurfacing, the accepted theory is that it suddenly lost thrust and “Without thrust, the weight of the passengers and the pilot (about 400 kilograms), which was focused on the front end close to the view port, would have disrupted the Titan’s longitudinal stability,”
No one can confirm at what depth the malfunction happened but then the submersible begins to fall headlong towards the seafloor, and with control and safety functions damaged, it can no longer be maneuvered.
“The Titan changes position and falls like an arrow vertically because the 400 kilos (880 pounds) of passengers that were at the porthole unbalance the submersible
“Everyone rushes and crowds on top of each other. Imagine the horror, the fear, and the agony. It had to be like a horror movie,” added the expert, who believes that everything happened during 48 to 71 seconds of free fall.
“As it fell to the depths of the ocean, the hull would have been subjected to a sudden increase in underwater pressure” - leading to a “powerful compression” of the sub’s carbon-fiber hull at a depth of around 9,000 feet,
so even if they heard the cracking frankly they already knew they where gonna die and had some time to think about it whilst they where all crammed together at the porthole as the sub fell rapidly.
The sound of the water delaminating the composite-hull at that pressure must have been extremly loud too... (just imagine beeing inside something beeing ripped apart like that..)
@@hwplugburz should have used titanium.
So I guess my question is, why choose carbon fiber in the first place when perfectly accept materials were available? Is there something I'm missing? Cost?
@@susul2843 cost
I used to work for a small aviation company that had operations ongoing around the globe. We would hear about things that happened on the other side of the planet almost immediately. People on those operations would be texting their buddies on other operations. There's nothing implausible about someone sharing info with others "in the community" within minutes. It's frankly hard for me to imagine information not being shared in such a scenario. Particularly today, when all it takes is a cel phone and about five seconds, to take a picture of a computer monitor (chat log).
If it's fake they did a pretty good job.
It's 100% fake are you kidding me? Based on all the science we've been presented with on how fast an imposion would happen on such a frail vessel - you really think they had time to send a text as it was actively cracking?
But they work on the surface, where the chat was copied.
Good for investigations.
They used code to communicate with the support ship, but full fledged sentences. The fake transcript been edited and recirculated every time sleuths point out why it’s fake af.
@@tripplefives1402satellites are a thing. Starlink is another thing
Many thanks jeff for your update👍
Glad to help!
My only comment on the transcript notes is that it's possible the sub descends faster early on? Either that, or is the 'depth' a pressure measurement or other unit?
Poor, poor kid. I was really hoping it happened too quickly for him to realize it was happening at all but no the poor kid had plenty of time to regret not staying home, damn shame...
He was forced in it
on the other hand, i'm kinda glad the CEO that was on board had the time to realise what was the price of his actions.
19 years old is young man
i even imagine him trying to send the message to his mom but major prick rush would be in control of the messaging board.
Their eternal souls are still regretting.
When I saw that text transcript a few days ago, I notice their inability to ascend more than a short distance after discarding all the weight possible. You've noted a similar problem, their too-rapid descent. Taken together, they show that the vessel was too heavy, but why? Were the weight calculations for the passengers far off? That seems unlikely. I wonder if the vessel had separate compartments for batteries and instrumentation. If so, was one or more of them either improperly sealed or imploded early in the descent? The added weight as sea water replaced air could explain the fast descent and the inability to ascend.
The extra weight was accounted for by the size of Rush's ego.
They’d had issues before with the thrusters which one was found to have been accidentally installed backwards once they surfaced. God only knows what mistake might have caused this. Safety was not this guy’s first concern, money was. Well, dead men are dead men when engineering fails, and physics doesn’t care about your bank account, that lesson should have been learnt from the Titanic. The irony is hard to miss.
@@weldorman8495 The laws of physics crush egos.
I wonder about the weight of the passengers too. As you know, those passengers were some pretty fat guys. If this message transcript is true, it appears they started dropping too fast as soon as they entered the water. The way Stockton was about testing things, he may have never tested the sub with passengers weighing that much. Stockton himself probably weighed 200 lbs, the father and son might have weighed 250 to 300 each, and then the other 2 guys looked big boned, like they might have weighed 230 each. They might have had 1100 or 1200 lbs of weight inside that thing.
Yes I'm thinking they went too fast and got caught in a gravity and or current well; That they could not escape from. 🙏
I am wondering if that pressure proof flotation foam couldn't withstand the pressure. That would be one cause of their slow ascending after they dropped the ballast.
Thank you for getting right to the point of the story through simple science and math. I'm subscribing!😊
The very first appearance of James Cameron talking to media, he said the surface knew they had a problem and were trying to effect an emergency acent when contact was lost. I haven't heard that information repeated since.
I wouldn't be surprised if the transcript was genuine, it certainly ties up with what Cameron said.
How would he know?
@@timsmith2525 Doesn't take too much imagination. Hey, you've dived down to the Titanic like 30 times, and dove to the bottom of the Marianas Challenger Deep (3x deeper than Titanic), mind checking this transcript out and telling us what happened?
Or someone could have heard this, just as you did - and manufactured a fake transcript, based on those details.
@@timsmith2525what Stockton was doing (diving to titanic) is a pretty big deal to a fairly small community of submariners, a community that we’re all aware of Stockton being ignorant and the titan not up to the task.
They were all probably watching and waiting for this to happen, James has said he has contacts on the mission.
@@DS-ev4xb Definitely possible. But I was replying to the comment that seemed mystified at how Cameron could get early access to such a transcript.