Could an US supercarrier defeat the whole Japanese WWII navy?
Vložit
- čas přidán 21. 11. 2019
- This video talks about a fantastical what if premise. Say a modern day US supercarrier battle group gets taken in time to spring of 1942, before the Battle of Midway. Could it protect Hawaii? Or various other Pacific islands? Could it take the battle back to the Japanese? And wreak havoc with their navy? Learn about the limits of the modern day technology, taken out of its usual context, and just how much does technology trump numbers.
Music by Matija Malatestinic
www.malatestinic.com
If you want to support us, become our Patron! / binkov
Suggest country pairs you'd like to see in future videos over at our website: www.binkov.com
You can also browse for other Binkov T-Shirts or Binkov merch, via the store at our website, binkov.com/
Subscribe to Binkov's channel for more videos!
/ binkovsbattlegrounds
Follow Binkov's news on Facebook!
/ binkovsbattlegrounds
Imagine being a Japanese engineer trying to reverse engineer a F18 just to find the words made in Japan on the electronics.🤯
XD
XDDDDDD
XDDDDDDDD
Masaka!?
XD
LMMFAO. And then trying to find the Japanese company that made it. That would have them pulling their hair out.
Up next: Emperor Palpatine's imperial strike force vs Harvard's rowing crew...
Yes please!
Lmao
Hmmm what level of Tarkington Doctrine is that strike force on? Because I’m leaning toward the rowing crew I a cement canoe
That made me laugh
Harvard'd win. Imperials wouldn't be able to hit the finish line. They never hit anything.
You overlooked an important factor: nuclear carriers carry nuclear engineers. They would have accelerated the Manhattan Project. The war ending nukes would be available years earlier.
Didn’t even think of this but you’re exactly right. It would probably be reasonable to expect they could have a bomb ready by the end of 1943.
The question would be how to use them, because at this point the Japanese people still have very high morale. Would you just blow up every major city? build tactical warheads for military targets and attach them to modern missiles? Difficult to say
@@maclain728 The Japanese people had high morale all the way till the surrender, because they were led to believe they were winning convincingly all the way until that point. The bombings of Nagasaki, Hiroshima were a huge shock to them, and what most people don't seem to realize is that the firebombing of other cities actually killed more people and was worse yet on morale. There were a surprising number of japenese who were angry with their government for surrendering, even in the face of total annihilation, because for them, dying was honorable, surrender was not.
Made nukes by taking fuel from the reactors. And disabling the hip. While contaminating it?
@@charleslloyd4253 No, you wouldn’t have to destroy the reactor or even remove it. The ship would likely be anchored in an American port and have a constant flow of nuclear engineers going in and out. They’d build either a duplicate reactor or just use the lessons from the existing one to build a new one for plutonium production
After that you have both nukes and a nuclear carrier, whether they’d risk it at all is a different question as the things they could learn from a modern carrier in the 40’s is unfathomable
@@maclain728 Even just showing them how to use an angled recovery strip would be a huge improvement in flight operations.
Also an important part is, the Sailors and Marines in this strike group would probably have tons of knowledge of WW2 which alone would be incredibly devastating even without the actual ships
just get one time traveler to convince the Austrian painter not to attack Stalingrad and boom the Axis win WW2
@@bladedninja8853 They would still have to withstand like two other terrible high casualties battles, man.
@@bladedninja8853 even without stalingrad axis would still lose though
@@bladedninja8853 no lmfao. this is just so fundementally wrong
There is no strike group in this scenario. Just a carrier.
Imagine being a Japanese sailor in this scenario and being on a carrier when suddenly the ship next to you explodes out of nowhere.
it'd be about as unreal as the city next to you exploding out of nowhere
@@hashbrownz1999 get nuke'd 😎😎😎😎😎
“Never knew the Americans used dark magic”
-random Japanese sailor
I hope i die if we lose otherwise i will have to commit sepuku
@@hashbrownz1999 read in a book that everyone in the bombed cities thought a normal, albeit large bomb fell right next to them.then they went outside and it was exactly the same everywhere
"Captain there are flying things that fly without propellers that shoot invisible bombs"
"That's not possible"
*Akagi sinks*
There was allready jet engines in the late 30s .. it was an experimental tech but not unheard of.. think of it like today ramjets and similar wich have prototipes but no in service anything yet... im sure if a NATO pilot would encounter today some russian fighter with ramjets it wouldnt go saying is magic or impossible
@@sparrowlt the first operational jet engine was in 36 but it did not fly until 41. Rockets and rocket engines had been used me 163. But this was not something the average pilot or a 19 year old sea man would have even imagined in 1942.
Hiryu, Soryu, and Kaga race her for the bottom before he can raise his binoculars.
@@sparrowlt They did not have supersonic fighters with radar guided missiles that could target other aircraft and splash them from five miles out.
The ME 262 would be severely outclassed by an F/A18.
@@Shutterbug5269 of course.. but the japanese pilots in this have no way of knowing that.. and actually they died not knowing.. the guy gunned down as far as he is aware was that (gunned down) and the other probably never even knew a heat seeking missile was homing on him
I think Japan seeing a 60ft fighter jet going Mach 1.8 loaded missiles and blowing shit out of the sky would be enough for a surrender long before fuel and ammo became an issue.
The U.S. essentially destroyed the Japanese navy, and stormed all the way to the Japanese mainland, announced plans to launch a total invasion, and dropped the literal sun on its major cities TWICE and did not surrender until it became a 2 front war when the Soviet Union declared war. Even then there were major mutiny and coup attempts to prevent a surrender. Zero shot they would’ve surrendered because of some futuristic fighters.
"How many ships the IJN has"
"around 600 sir"
"damn we need to order a few resupply of missiles"
Based just on the load out showed on the video, they would have 5x the number of munitions than they would need. LGB 500lbs is capable of sinking the vast majority of those ships
who would win?
the entire WW2 Japanese Navy or one Somali pirate with an AK-47?
"Look at me... I am the admiral now."
If you make a 21 minute video maybe we can find out
“Look at me, i am the emperor now!”
im placing bets on the somali
he got AK
@@Julianna.Domina nice
Having served in the Navy (Cdn), and worked with carrier groups, there is a slight flaw in this whole scenario.
It was specifically mentioned that a carrier strike group doesn't have a submarine. It is actually the opposite, it is extremely rare that you'll see an American carrier without at least 1 submarine lurking in the depths keeping watch.
Submarines once!
@@livid76 Submarines Twice!
Yes .. this was my major beef with this scenario as well. A supercarrier especially will always have at least two. They're just too valuable of an asset to not provide them with every tactical advantage (offense and defense).
As a former Carrier crew USS Nimitz I would say yes for sure. The primary issue would be jet fuel exhaustion. It would need to be an all out fast attack.
Jet fuel would not be a problem
“Can one carrier group hold on against Japan” Well the Enterprise sure did.
Captain Kirk is a legend.
This would be a great idea for a movie we will call it The Final Countdown.
😂😂😂😂😂
One Ohio class nuclear sub vs ALL of Germany and Japan. Those poor bastards, have no idea.
@@Mantis_Toboggan_TrashMan if its a SSGN instead of a SSBN it doesnt hold enought firepower to effectibly defeat all their manufacture and military assets.. nuclear would do but with serious repercusions for nearby allies
I could have sworn that was already a movie or an episode of a tv show
Vladimir Lenin Commie it is
Imagine being a japanese bomber pilot fighting through the CIWS of the fleet and then you get strafed by a seemingly engine-less aircraft at quintuple your speed
@Done with you Seen it.
I don't think said pilot would even survive that long. Especially if the CIWS was shooting the old depleted uranium ammo.
They knew about jet engines. They used one for their kamikaze planes.
@@steviejohnson378 Those weren't jet engines lol. Just shitty rocket interceptors
@@kellanroberts2785 Sorry my bad. Their jet aircraft in late ww2 was this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakajima_Kikka
The modern US carrier is unbeatable by 1942 standards, and that's even without its escorts. Early warning aircraft would detect any Japanese aircraft long before they could see the carrier and they'd be shot down if there was any threat of detect. The same early warning aircraft would detect the Japanese fleet as well. Super Hornets could attack the fleet with near impunity with laser-guided weapons that wouldn't miss and would likely destroy a ship with every hit. Maybe the battleships would take a beating, but they're not the threat. The carriers are targeted first and sunk with ease. The only real threat to the US carrier is a chance encounter with a Japanese submarine. Then again, submarines in that era sail on the surface most of the time, so the early warning aircraft would detect them at great distance and then a guided missile, say a Harpoon, could sink it with ease.
The most dangerous asset would most likely be the crew to be fair. Assuming that the crew are also teleported to the past with all their knowledge about history would mean that they'd be able to predict a lot of what Japan would try in the war.
Decrypting Japanese and German coded messages would be child’s play for the average iPad on the American ships.
no need as v british knew/ broke v german codes at v start of ww2, eg vey knew pearl was goina b attacked but didint tell v yanks as vey wanted v reluctant yanks 2 enter v fight as we needed em. vey used v worlds first ( sry chinese-abacas) computer which was designed nbuilt in v 1800s in v uk, modified it n called it enigma. its why v allies won v war.
@@richtensail I just got a stroke by reading that
@@komodo.dragons.are.very.cool99 wt p[art was shocking 2 u?, im curious?, al vis info is freely available n been in v public domain 4 decades. im happy 2 gve u mre info, ive noticed many dnt know history. cheers
@@komodo.dragons.are.very.cool99 i rmber v first comp was desingned by a english woman n a scotsman in v 1860s.? it was v size of a house, it was put in a museum 4 60 yrs by queen victoriaas colecting dust. imgine creating v worlds first computer n v gvt says its very nice wewll put it in storage 4 v rest of ur life!. v elites didint understand its abilities, in 40s uk vey did n used it 2 win ww2.
@@richtensail First a stroke, now you're starting to put me in a coma
Haven't watched this, but the only way the U.S. loses is if they run out of ammo lol
They don't run out of ammo. Engineers onboard know how to make the ammo needed and supplies to make them are readily available in the US
@@jimbob.2299 Would 1940's ammo work with modern tech? Serious question
@@mahchoo well Fighter Jet and ground attack pilots know how to use a Free Fall Bomb and Glide Bombs, so in my opinion, yes, it will work
***oil
The battle of beaulieu wood thinks differently
Can you imagine a kamikaze coming in hot with the seaRAM system in operation?
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
Kamikaze pilot: *exists*
Phalanx: and i took that personally
Actually the Kamikaze didn't come about until later in the war. In 1942, certainly before Midway, Japanese pilots fully intended to return to their carriers.
As an airline pilot, I assure you that we can navigate just as precisely without GPS.
@America that’s why they don’t fly in fog or bad weather
@America We use an E6B flight computer to calculate things such as time, distance, true airspeed, wind correction angle, etc.
This is technology that PanAm developed in the 30's. The PanAm navigation school is where the US Army trained bomber navigators.
And that type of "dead reckoning" navigation is literally the first form of navigation you learn in flight school to this day.
And we *still* have the ability to pick up surface based navigation signals (same thing they used back then - hell, some of the equipment is original to the period) just fine!
Now, go take a hike you little prick.
Dad Bod vs The World you just owned that man lel
@@medinbeqiri8346 Ahaha he deserved it!
GPS makes navigation easier and more convenient. But I assure you we were weren't up there just takin a damn guess before the 90's ahaha
Dad Bod vs The World I guess so haha
The japanese lack of radar is what seals the deal. They'd have no idea where the carrier is because it would always know where they are and be able to keep a far enough distance where its strike groups could take them out while being out of the Japanese carrier's ranges.
My only question is what's the fuel constraints for the jets.
@@Skiiiiiifreeeeeee JP-5 is basically 99% kerosene, white kerosene is even closer. Kerosene is extremely common. In a pinch diesel and AVGAS will work, with reduction in max performance
Boom! Yes, Radar.
"Navigation would be an issue because the carrier is reliant on GPS"
Buddy. Ships have been navigating by the sun and stars for well over 500 years before ww2 started.
Also, we're talking about supply shortage for the carrier, but lets not forget... japan was having massive shortages too. Thats why they got into the whole mess.
This video severely underestimates modern sonar and submarine detection technology.
There's a big difference between a carrier and a carrier group. As long as the carrier has fuel, munitions and supplies to run, they would be untouchable.
Final Countdown is a great movie.
the carrier is nuclear so fuel is covered and they carry a lot of ammo and food for months o f fighting
and then if they used the new ford supercarrier it could plob take the entire 1942 japan sea force by itself
@@hunterbear2421 If the Destroyers used in this video was the Zumwalt destroyers with their nuclear reactors, there is literally no limit to how far and long the carrier group can travel. By themselves, the group can at least last for 6 months. So really, the US would get a huge upper hand above their already advantageous position.
@@shadowkillz9606 Zumwalts are gas turbine power.
@@hotshtsr20 Zumwalts are powered by 4 gas turbine generators*
There fixed it for you, you're welcome 😎
Something to consider: The Imperial Japanese Navy had one extremely flawed practice: Damage control. Whereas the US and Royal navies trained every sailor in flood control and firefighting, the IJN had a dedicated damage control team that would have to be called in from their stations to make their way to the damage and fight or contain the fire and/or flood. The rest of the crew had no idea how to effectively perform these duties. Because of this, if a Japanese ship was set on fire, it tended to stay on fire.
They had several key flaws. But that was downfall of most damaged ships, could have been saved but ultimately were lost.
They carriers were also had a number of design flaws. Stored aviation fuel in the walls of the hanger. Enclosed hangers, better for explosions to out the sides than up. The deadly long lance Torpedoes that filled almost every IJN, sank a number of their own ships, in one case it exploded from a strafing run. Although damage control was able to save that one.
The US Navy had fire control teams, but didn’t train the entire crew until the Forrestal disaster in Vietnam.
@@Grandizer8989 true to an extent. The US did not do a good job after ww2 in keeping lessons learned during the war going after the big drawn down of experience soldier/sailors. But, in comparison of US Navy 1942 vs IJN 1942. The US was extremely better at damage control compared to the IJN. While both are lesser in comparison to modern Navy practices. But ww2 IJN is the example of what not to do, irony is they copied western nations practices which was the standard at the time. When they learned they needed to change it was already too late, they couldn't train new sailors quick enough to replace the ones they were losing.
Midway proves otherwise, damage control on the Yorktown was far greater than any ship from the Kido Butai, not to mention Yorktown had just been damaged at the battle of Coral Sea, but the carrier was fixed and present at midway just a few days later.
gd info, seems flawed 2 me, it wood tke mre tme 2 act n also wat happens whn v specialised damge control parties r injured killed?, dnt like v idea, everyone needs 2 have training in dc, ff n fa. sure have specilisd advanced dc party as well if v ship can afford em?
The biggest weapon carried by the moden carrier would actually be the knowledge it carries. Lots of engineering manuals, and Navy officers tend to skew heavily to engineering degrees. Heck, the information in the textbooks for all the CLEP courses we took in the Navy would jumpstart the US industrial base.
Hollywood already made a Movie something Like this in 1980 called "The Final Countdown" the USS Nimitz goes through a Weird Storm at Sea and gets sent back to December 6 1941 it's a Good Movie
"Dr Oppenheimer, some of the reactor technicians from the USS John F Kennedy are here to consult your research program. They MAY be able to offer some valuable insight."
Not just that, but how about an actual integrated circuit chip let alone microprocessors in the hands of 1940 researchers still trying to figure out how they even make semiconductors. Oh so it’s done like that! Now of course that would put the infamous Radio Shack out of business almost instantly as tubes would cease to exist... Discoveries from the people onboard in advanced explosives chemistry, metals, materials science, and even simply air conditioning would ultimately become more valuable than the ships themselves. The technology they bring will be as valuable if not more so than the hardware itself as this magical stuff would simply be technology they just don’t understand....yet.
We used this person's "mobile phone" to crack all their cyphers.
@@scoutmaster33 The funny thing is, we'd probably skip straight past the cold war with this. Hell, the WW2 allies would have likely continued and pushed the Soviets out of europe with this big of an advantage.
Also, some clever folk could probably make some suggestions about giving some aid to the areas of Asia that were hit by Japan and not letting China become the monster it is today. Hell, they'd probably have to have one of their guys who studied history give a full briefing of our timeline. So they could hopefully avoid the pitfalls we fell into. At which point the only worry is if our politicians got drunk on this power.
USS John F. Kennedy was an oil-fired carrier. The last one, in fact.
@@BogeyTheBear they meant the new one, cvn-79, also named after jfk, not the old one - cv-67 - you are reffering to
Watch the movie, The Final Countdown. It's about a modern carrier going through a wormhole to defeat the Japanese fleet in 1941. Movie was made in 1980. Starred Kirk Douglas. It had potential.
Except they don't defeat the Japanese fleet.
@@OnLyCraftthebest right, they decided not to because it would alter history too much.
The Final Countdown is definitely needs to be remade... but as a Mini Series. This time the carrier stays back in time, destroys the Pearl Harbor Strike Force and goes from there. Things to consider is how the U.S would handle such power along with the ability to jump light years ahead with nuclear, rocket, jet engine and computer technology via reverse engineering. Would the Cold War Happen or would the U.S threaten Russia with its super-weapon, would it become currupt and hold the world hostage? Also you have to imagine how the U.S Population would react when they see not only a non Segregated Crew but also ( if its a 2021 carrier) female pilots, officers and crew.
@@pablojose4890 They were about to but the wormhole opened up and they had to get back through.
@@cchavezjr7 you are right. Thanks for refreshing my memory - I saw it in the movie theater 40 years (too many brain cells) ago.
In reality a carrier strike group operates much larger than this. They have One carrier, three destroyers, one cruiser, one LPD and LHD, two submarines, and a AOE-R. That in of itself could probably make quick work of most of the pacific campaign. The submarines act as strike craft, while the aircraft carrier acts as a central hub. The amphibious ships would probably be paired with two destroyers to take islands. AOER would be with fleet main, composing of the carrier, the cruiser, a destroyer and the AOER. It would be brutal. The biggest constraint would be fuel and ammo.
The most important part of the carrier group would honestly be the computer tech and other modern tech they bring with them. It would obviously be studied by the Americans and the US would see an even bigger technological golden age. It would of course lead into a paradox, as the these ships probably would be way more advanced in our time if they got access to the tech int the 40ies. Time travel is complicated :)
Also theyd let people know about a bunch of communist spies like Oppenheimer so the Soviets aren't getting nukes until the mid fifties at the earliest.
This probably just generally leads to the even more insanely U.S. dominant timeline really.
@@GonnaDieNever A nuclear reactor in one of those supercarriers would probably lead to a massive growth in nuclear power in the west. But the computer tech would probably be the most important piece of tech. But it wouldn't be possible. The only way they could do the time travel without making a paradox, would be to stay away from it all. Any change would break the timeline. Most likely stuff would just end up like the same timeline as the ship came from.
They would be in a loop of godliness, since now present day things would be more advanced if a nimitz carrier was sent to 1942, but then when the modern carrier is sent back it will be much more better than the nimitz, this would go on until the us can literally create black holes or smth
Alternate timeline could fix this
True@@roastedturtle0820
I think I can model morale:
U.S.: "We lost our entire navy!??!?!" -100 morale
U.S.: "An aircraft carrier from 80 years in the future has travelled back in time to defend our freedom with its advanced technology??!!!!" +100000 morale
AND THEY KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN? +10000000000000000 MORALE
Small carrier group filled with unexperienced sailors that will piss themselves at the first glance of hundreds of kamikaze pilots flying towards them vs the entire imperial navy with thousand of planes, ships and millions of disposable fanatical men..... Morale-1000000000000000000000000000000000
@@Riimaachan literally a single g61 avenger vs all that BS +10000000000000000000000000000000000000000 Morale
@@Riimaachan There were no kamikaze pilots until just before the end of the war in 1945. It was a last ditch desperation move after most of the Japanese fleet had already been lost. Besides, no aircraft in existence at the time would have any hope whatsoever of penatrating a modern carrier's defenses to crash into the carrier.
@@PanzerVII-df8hg introduce me to infinite ammunition and then we can talk, otherwise the carrier group will go dry in a week max
Contrary to what the narrator says, attack submarines and supply ships WOULD be a part of a carrier strike group.
Ya, no US carrier travels with only 3 support vessels. Thats a myth for adversaries.
And if you think nothings lurking under the surface thats a you problem!
America cares more about submarines than stealth aircraft. They are literally the most elusive piece of americas nuclear arsenal.
A carrier strike group is most likley capable of 100-300 heroshimas and nagasaki's by blast force. Seeing as 1 modern nuke is easily 50x
I don't even think the US would need to really fight the Japanese navy. Just sink a ship or 2 from beyond visual range, which could be done at a whim, and then do a quick show of force by flying some F/A-18s over and showing off their performance (something like a full afterburner supersonic pass around 5,000 ft, then immediately zip climbing to around 40,000 ft). I think the remaining Japanese fleet would just turn around and go home.
Screw honour they some how have the power of anime even though we invented it
Imagine Nimitz's reaction when he gets a 21st century carrier that's *named after him* to blow up the IJN......
McArthur and Nimitz is gonna have some fun raising temperatures in Asia
This is basically a gun, against a stick.
wrong
More like a 105mm howitzer from 1940 against a 105mm MBT cannon from 2016
no it isnt
its more like using an RPG to kill a guy with toy sword
ok i man 1 gun 6 bullets, 100 men wit large nasty looking sticks- i know whos gona win!
against an amry of sticks
Imperial Japanese Navy: “Why do I hear boss music?”
Nimitz Class Carrier: *ANCHORS AWEIGH MY BOYS, ANCHORS AWEIGH!*
A carrier group is never with out it's subs. When i was in the navy the carriers carried fuel for their escorts to top them off between oil tanker visits.
One interesting tidbit that wasn't discussed is the fact that US Carriers are very likely to still carry nuclear weapons on board... Dozens, with variable yields of up to 400kt. Which is the equivalent of over 25 Hiroshimas, each...
The USS John F Kennedy was revealed to have carried up to 100 B61 nuclear bombs during the cold war. The government has also neither confirmed, nor denied whether or not carrier strike groups are still armed with nuclear capable gravity bombs.
And if the Iowa class battleships were dropped in that would've also been a point, as their main naval guns were capable of firing nuclear shells of the same yield as the little boy. If they managed to get close to the japanese shore it would've been risky but also an incredibly deadly way to bomb port cities
My dad was on the USS Forrestal in the late 70s, early 80s. He'll tell you that they had nukes on board. They made no secret if it, either. They lined the deck with marines to guard them as they loaded them into the armory.
More like "what if" the USS Nimitz found itself in the middle of WWII? Might be a good idea for a movie. What could we call it? I'll think about it while I listen to some Europe.
Have you read destroyermen? Kind of the same premise
The final countdown.......
Splash the Zeros. I say again Splash the Zeros.
@@ryanholder7728 thank you... I've been searching for about 20 minutes to find the name of that film XD
We can't effect history by letting them know we are here!
Shoots Captain. Launch all aircraft, we're going to war boys.
Probably do Hoorah to keep everyone commited, or something.
I'm British so I'd probably use a modern carrier to invade most of the planet or, more likely, threaten them into submission.
They have advanced capability.
And we have 12 of these ships, roughly. Maybe..ish.
Considering the Japanese navy lacked adequate radar, they would be at the bottom of the ocean before they saw a single ship.
This scenario is very similar to the commodore perry incursion into Japanese ports. They had ships, but stood no chance against (at the time) modern warships and had to open the country up completely to trade or risk annihilation.
‘The final countdown’ has a carrier go back to pearl harbour. Great movie
I don’t think the real morale damage was considered. Imagine being a Japanese sailor in a carrier escort group. When out of nowhere multiple ships randomly explode. Followed by the sound of the F18 without being able to see it. That would terrify anybody that had no idea what was happening.
One fact that isn't considered in the analysis is that the carriers reactor engineers would have adequate knowledge of nuclear dynamics to accelerate the US A-bomb program by years.
And providing a sample of the jetfuel to duplicate. The jets would breakdown slowly tho w/o replacement parts.
No chanse, remember, some counties can't build a nuke and they have good universities, but the engineers can provide some information about radar technology, about CDMA transmission, the Japanese code can be uncoded with all modern laptops in few hours, also people from 1940 can use reverse engineering to build jet engines, etc... More than that the jet fighters can use the radars to spot when enemy planes are on flying deck, that mean they can use just the wings cannons to turn japanese carriers into a burning hell.
I am a former Navy nuclear technician. I operated reactors for years. I would be no use whatsoever in building a bomb. I have no clue how to do things like enriching Uranium, and I know nothing about explosives. I know more than your average layman about how atom bombs work, but after the 15 minutes it took me to tell them all I knew, I’d be making coffee.
Ghotiermann That’s okay, they still had the Manhattan Project your main value would be in telling them that above ground atomic testing was a REALLY stupid idea!
I think those people are different, some are for using it practically with application knowledge , trouble shooting then there are scientists who know how its made and works chemically etc are different people....
When they filmed the movie The Final Countdown . They had F14s fly by the actual ww2 planes and just the turbulence from the tomcats passing nearly caused them to crash. It’s a great story to read up on the filming of that movie. So in theory if some huge supersonic jets like the tomcat. Flew at actual top speed through a formation of zeros , it could cause lots of havoc without even firing a shot .
That was a good movie. I remember watching that when I was a kid.
@@KentuckyFriedDoge their knowledge was infantile compared to our infantile knowledge of these things
The "actual" planes were T6 Texans converted to look like Zeros. There are maybe 1 or 2 flyable Zeros left.
@@MrLucky3576 I think there is 1 and it doesn't have the original engine in it.
Even if we say the F18s only have era ammunition, they could still carry a lot of bombs and drop them accurately, after reprogramming the bomb computer.
The japanese fleet would be wiped out with no chance of defense.
Weebs Isekai into a fantasy world into a harem. Real men Isekai entire carrier battlegroups to defens Hawaii.
indeed specifically the 7th carrier fleet since they probably can speak japanese
There's an actual Manga where a modern Japanese destroyer (Yukinami class) gets Isekai'ed to 1942. Zipang for anyone curious.
@@Deckaio i've watched anime it was pretty cool but it wasnt my type
@@dusteerq Never watched the Anime, but since it's using early 2000 3d models for the battles, I don't expect much.
It's also much more of an military drama, so it's not for everyone. But the battles against the Wasp, and the evacuation/battle against the North Carolina were well done.
@@Deckaio watched that old anime some time ago it was very good
They actually made sci fi movie about this theory. It's a 1980s movie called "The Final Countdown". A modern US Carrier travels back in time a day before the attack on pearl harbor through a strange storm at sea. It's a nice movie.
I'll look for it
Reminds me of a Sat Trek episode
@@themajor2190 with Kirk Douglas and Martin Sheen
That movie sucked since they didn't do anything with the concept. The only half interesting thing in that movie was some F-14s flying around some Zeros. And none of that "combat" made sense, not to mention a Zero would literally explode if hit by anything from an F-14's arsenal, not just slowly glide into the water. The only saving grace was that they used real Zeros
I have a feeling someone watched “The Final Countdown”.
@@ExpectinSomeADifferentAlias same
I remember that movie when I was 10.
i did not remenber the movies name, interestingly the Technology of the movie was used on the War game Red Alert, the Chronosphere ...
The objective was to put ones fleet invisible or to cross vast distances in seconds... one Trial went wrong lol ...
A jet plane flying at 50K+ feet would be something else to a WWII era plane. WWII was the first war fought by airplane decidedly. If there was enough refueling, bombs, and missiles, nothing would stand a chance in 1942. This posturing of numbers, etc. would be nothing. A good commander would wipe the floor with whatever they had to offer. If they didn't, fire them.
I have to agree. It really can't be understated how helpless Japan would be against modern tech. I don't find the points of maintenance or limited ammunition to be relevant here. It would be a Sunday stroll for the carrier group to cruise over to Tokyo and bomb all the top government buildings. After such a devastating show of superiority, and a potentially paralyzed Japan lacking leadership, the US can issue the "surrender or die" ultimatum, which Japan would surely accept. They would have no way of knowing about the limited ammo, fuel, etc. War over.
@@jakethewhale Tokyo, government buildings specifically would be pretty bad choices I think, especially if you end up killing someone higher up the chain like the emperor by mistake, the Japanese were already reluctant to surrender and many kept on fighting even after the 2 nukes in 1945, if by any chance their emperor or someone extremely popular died, that would be it, Japanese people would look at the "surrender or die" choice and unironically decide to fight till the end.
It would be a PR disaster and it would cost way too much, like Vietnam but maybe worse. The bombings on Tokyo were overall worse than a nuke and Japan was still refusing to surrender, hence Hiroshima was chosen as it was a city largely untouched by bombing raids and no one would've been able to deny the destruction of the nuke, it was a show of power and makes even the proudest government lose some morale and reconsider their choices.
That's the point after all. Making the people higher up look at what they can lose and decide it's not worth it to keep fighting, because if that choice was left to the people, especially Japanese people, they would fight to the death.
In summary, this theoretical supercarrier would have better luck just bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, maybe some other cities and then letting history do its job.
I know this is all just for fun .. but American carrier strike groups *_ALWAYS_* have at least one submarine attached, and for certain a supercarrier will have at least two. They're just too valuable of an asset (the supercarrier) to not provide them w/ every tactical advantage in both offense and defense.
Of course, I understand leaving them out of this scenario lol .. what with just one Ohio class sub capable of launching ~14 nukes (each with MIRV's) .. that strike group wouldn't have just ended the Japanese Navy .. it would have conquered the planet.
The only other major beef I have with this is that the carrier aircraft all seem to be unable to use their 20mm etc cannons, and waste valuable missiles on WWII planes that pose zero threat to them.
Already seen in "The Final Countdown", 1980, movie starring Kirk Douglas.
I've also seen it but I was disappointed to not see a battle.
Is good but as they said they are pulled out in time a actual battle would be cool
That's a neat movie
Also, RIP Kirk Douglas.
They would win the war within days. If not sooner.
"Splash the zeros!"
Kinda reminds me of 1980 film The Final Countdown when the USS Nimitz goes back in time to December 7, 1941. Stars Michael Sheen.
Yeah, it had some beautiful F14 scenes
Did the f14s engage zeros, Kate’s, betts, Tony’s, Frances ect?
@@robertmiller5607 watch the movie
First thing I thought of when I saw this. Can't believe the OP didn't mention it.
The movie was a total let down.. they spent the first 60 minutes or so building you up for a great battle and then go f*ck yourself .. you just lost 40$ taking the family to the movies !!!
The Final Countdown (1980) was an entire film based on this premise.
I came straight to the comments looking to see if anyone else has seen that movie.
Yes, but they whimped out on the ending.
Except they only took out two scout planes before the Pearl Harbor attack even started properly before returning to the future
Heard it was pretty silly
@@kbanghart Not so much silly. It just was not exploring the concept of changing the future. It was exploring the concept of temporal loops while preserving the time line we all experienced. I would like to see the former storyline followed somewhat maybe a series based on the 1632 series by Eric Flint.
Watch the movie , The Final Countdown. It's about the U S S Nimitz loaded with F 14s going back in time through a freakish storm and being back in Dec 1942.
I would also recommend John Birmingham's Axis of Time trilogy where a 21st century Carrier group founds itself in 1942 before the battle of Midway due to an experiment that goes wrong.
There was a movie made in 1980 called The Final Countdown that kinda touched on this scenario.
And if you like reading, a slightly more modern take on it was done in a book called Fighting Her Father's War: The FIghting Tomcats.
This situation was contemplated in the 1980 movie The Final Countdown. In the movie the carrier Nimitz hits at strange energy storm which. have been transported back in time to December 6, one day before the attack. Captain realize they must have traveled through a time wormhole and has to decide whether to destroy the Japanese fleet and alter the course of history, or to stand by and allow history to proceed as "normal". They beleved they could take out the entire Japanese strike force. The movie is worth checking out.
My favorite line from that movie was when USS Nimitz was trying to communicate with Pearl and the response was along the lines of "bullshit, they'd never name a carrier after that guy"
There is a movie using the same premise but being the USS Nimitz being somehow transported to Pearl Harbor on Dec 6th 1941. It's called "The Final Countdown" Makes you wonder if that premise might have worked. Also the "CAG" officer and others knowing where the Japanese fleet was might have convinced the US carriers where to find the Japanese fleet.
Two words “laser guided”. That’s game over.
They made this a movie already.
im pissed off the movie never really explored the situation anywhere near as deeply as they oughtve
Which one?
"Battleship"
Thats the name of the movie
If im wrong, correct me
@@nicasioteran3973 The Final Countdown. It was 80's esk and they went back in time due to an electrical storm.
Yes. There saved you almost a half hour.
The answer was clearly no. A single carrier group simply doesn't have the fuel, ammunition and ability to make repairs to destroy the entire fleet. Even if they could refuel they would run out of bombs and general ammunition, and if they reverted to WWII bombs then they could get shot down, and eventually the planes would fall apart due to not being able to get repaired.
@@jaybee946 I agree. But let’s be honest. The Japanese navy wasn’t really all that formidable. It would only take time. I disagree with some of the things in this video as well. The super carrier is equipped with a lot more than just radars and planes. So, theoretically, the super carrier and the fleet should take all, if not, most of the navy. Just my opinion though.
@@alfredthegreatfounderofeng1583 that's the thing japan during ww2 is actually not very strong and is considered weak by the us but idk how but japan managed to took up so much of asia and even gave a pretty good fight against the us navy. Its so odd
@@jaybee946 "The answer was clearly no. A single carrier group simply doesn't have the fuel, ammunition and ability to make repairs to destroy the entire fleet."
I think you are greatly underestimating the kind of firepower a single modern Carrier Strike Group is packing. Not only does the carrier have E-2 Hawkeyes which would detect ANY Imperial Navy threat before it could ever even hope to be in range, the carriers escorts, Arleigh Burke Destroyers and we'll say a Ticonderoga Class Cruiser has Harpoon missiles and even their SM-2 missiles have some anti-ship capabilities, 90 or so a piece they're packing times 3 since in this scenario the guy in the video is giving the Carrier 3 escorts, although realistically it would probably be 5 or 6.
Hypothetically, lets say Pearl Harbor happens, and A Carrier Strike Group is sent to retaliate, catches up with the Imperial Navy Fleet. They pretty much threw everything at us they had to bear at the time in 1941, all 6 of their current operational Aircraft Carriers. A modern carrier strike group catches them on their way back and completely wipes that fleet off the face of the Earth, then proceeds to the Japanese Mainland, unopposed, launches an Alpha Strike, blows up their shipyards, their factories, kills the Emperor, kills the Prime Minster, the war is over.
@@jmc4791 They got their on the TARDIS, Churchill called them and The Doctor gave them a ride, bigger on the inside, big enough to give a carrier group a lift to 1941.
A single F/A-18 squadron, in a single sortie, would have sunk all the carriers and 4-5 of the picket ships each.
Use of carrier nuclear weapons might simplify things!
There's a 1980 movie called The Final Countdown like this.
Synopsis from web: A modern aircraft carrier is thrown back in time to 1941 near Hawaii, just hours before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
In 1980, an assistant in the Department of Defense, Warren Lasky, is assigned by his mysterious chief Richard Tideman to visit the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz commanded by Capt. Matthew Yelland as an observer of the routines. Lasky learns that Commander Air Group (CAG) Richard T. Owens has a great knowledge of history. Out of the blue, the vessel faces a weird storm and they find they have traveled back in time to the eve of the attack of Pearl Harbor on 06 December 1941. When the two Japanese Zeros attack the motorboat of Senator Samuel Chapman, the crew of the Nimitz rescues the senator and his assistant Laurel Scott. But Lasky soon learns the senator had disappeared on that day and Capt. Matthew Yelland is planning to attack the Japanese. Will these actions create a time paradox?
czcams.com/video/IX33Diwrv3A/video.html
The premise is immediately flawed by discounting Battle group submarine escorts which ALWAYS accompany the carriers... ALWAYS.
Yeah... We've got no idea exactly what is escorting them too. Scariest thing about a US CSG is those unknown subs.
God help them if said Carrier had its entire battle group.
Can you say cruise missiles? I knew you could.
Lets not forget the ludicrous assumption that ww2 subs have the stealth capability to surprise a strike group. I think he forgot about the existence of sonar
@@NobleBlu Not to mention the torpedo said WWII subs would get up the ass from the dark hole in the ocean (modern attack sub) that they didn't see coming.
@@Shutterbug5269 yup
This is actually a pretty cool video. Just like the film "The Final Countdown"
How about doing another scenario where modern U.S. Marines storming the beach on D-Day with some supports (maybe one or two MEU) and how it played out?
The doctrine of vertical envelopment nearly guarantees that the bloody beach storming tactics of yore would remain a thing of the past; the bloodiness that is. Modern amphib tactics would also better deal with defense in depth as marines and soldiers as well may choose to bypass enemy units nearer the shore and go against those enemy units inland in an attempt to cut off the beach defenders. Helicopters and better air and NGF support would enable these.
@@MrBinnie824 Though assuming it's just the ground troops and gear being swapped and not the supporting Navy and Air Force resources, it would probably go mostly the same due to the lack of the modern technology and resources that allows for modern tactics and support
@@TheRavingLobster modern marines will probably fair much worse with their knowledge of what happened, most probably won't actually agree to go and their experience compared to the soldier that were at constant war for 6 years is very lacking
Depends on how many marines, without at least decent numbers, it'll be a bloodbath since conventional weapons really haven't changed all that much, kevlar helps, it really does, but when the beach is literally loaded with mg nests and enemies, it's not gonna save u all that much
Want to make it even more onesided, send one modern submarine instead.
To make this fair, if you are allowing resupply of the Japanese fleet, it should also be allowed for the U.S. Fleet.
The 1980 movie "The Final Countdown" the USS Nimitz slips into a time vortex and goes back to 1941 just before the Pearl Harbor attack.
Spoiler on a 40 year old movie! 😎
@@simonsmith8974 jokes aside, how'd that even be a spoiler when it's just the plot of the movie lmfao
Was stationed on the Kitty Hawk when it came out the scene of it pulling into Pearl was us I was manning the rail for the shot, the Nimitz was unavailable I think they were deployed at the time, same thing happened in Top Gun Tom Cruise was an A-hole while he was on board wanted us to salute him not happening.
I always wanted to see them fuck up the Japanese navy in that movie
....aaaand then there's the Japanese version to some extent without cliffhangers unlike that movie, a Japanese Comic/Manga, Zipang in which also had an animated adaptation. To summarize, a fictional advanced/new version of the Kongo-class comparable to the US Arleigh Burke-class from the early 2000's was sent back in time before the Battle of Midway. That ship was on it's way to presumably the RIMPAC Exercise in Hawaii when it got sent back to WW2.
Just to add, a CVN would be able to tow 2 Arleigh Burke destroyers or a missile cruiser. It wouldn't be fast, and wouldn't work for modern operations, but for WW2, a CVN would be able to bring it's own support ships using nuclear powerplants.
Imagining this scenario makes me smile
Good thought. Excellent idea.
Surveillance capabilities alone would have provided the Allies with a Sauron-like advantage over axis.
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Oh hell yes!
Range is key here. The US carrier group could hit and sink Japanese ships before they knew they were there. Same goes for aircraft.
only partly rite.
Especially since their doctrine did not use their own planes as recon. They used the cruisers float planes as recon or the planes of nearby airfields. So their information would always be a little lacking. Hell in Battle of Midway they were informed of the location of the Yorktown but were off by 50 miles closer and twenty miles to the east meaning their planes wouldn't have even been going to the right location.
Our ships are so fast, communication much better. Our ships could launch our fighters and full steam over a hundred miles to a new location and our planes could land, the japanese would have no fucking clue were our ship went thats if we let their recon planes get close enough to see us to report.
People forget that cloudy weather meant planes couldn't identify targets at all. Modern planes and ships can detect one another no matter the weather pattern.
Q. how exactly is the US carrier group going to find and hit Japanese ships without satellite and GPS navigation, in the middle of the Pacific?
Do you really want to be flying an F/A-18 without GPS?
@@w0mblemania They do this a lot actually. They run drills and training sims without GPS and Satellite tech often enough in case something where to ever happen to their array or something were to ever jam it. So they actually CAN operate in the same way the old Navy did too.
also there is a lot more chance that they would have japanese americans on board who can speak japanese and possibly even still have info on the codes they where using allowing them to crack 100% of the Japanese communication where as at Midway they only had a partial cipher.
@@TheLastSane1 Fair enough. Cheers.
Someone saw the old 80's movie the Final Countdown where a super carrier went back to 1941 through a time portal.
In the movie it was the USS Nimitz
That's not a bad movie. Worth a watch if you haven't seen it yet.
@@asdf51501 I appreciated the serious direction they took with the many good conversations but I think people need to realize before going in that it doesn't end with jets fighting Zeros.
@@asdf51501 The F-14s performing those maneuvers alone is worth a watch.
I've watched it a dozen times. Even got my son to watch it. I wished the ending was a little bit diffferent. Not giving anything away. Interesting fact, the navy helped make the film in return for the free advertising and allowing navy recruiters at theaters. According to wiki and imdb.
The "Axis of Time" book series by John Birmingham actually addresses the logistics of a naval force from the future going back to WW2; in short they use the tech from the 21st century to speed up development in order to produce more feasible aircraft and weapons of equivalent advancement to the 50s and 60s.
Also the ability to carry out military operations effectively at night would be a huge advantage for a US super carrier group. A majority of the naval conflicts in the Pacific theater were conducted in daytime hours, but a super carrier group has the ability to conduct 'round the clock' missions and sorties. And with the precision weaponry at their disposal, this would not have been a fair fight.
yes but it would be for a small time, its impossible for the carrier to win the war in 1 year and after that no weapons, no fuel, no nothing, but i guess they could bring Tech from the ship that could EASILY be produced by that time machines, like the M4 rifle or a M60 stuff like that could easilly in a year or so start to be made by the factories and that would change the war fast, RADAR tech, sonar, and even early computer knoledge and nuclear weapons, specially since the personel inside the carrier are really smart and have a lot of engineers and nuclear engineers to keep the nuclear reactor working, and the most important i guess is that they would know everything that would happen in the war besides the pacific theater of course they could focus efort in the tried and proved things like they could cypher all of german and japanese comunications since we would have computers, change war medicine with much better medical equipment and treatment, theres a fuck ton of things that they could do off from the front that would most definitly change the war.
@@lukasausen They still have fuel. The carrier has nuclear reactors and jets run on kerosene which was considered a waste product in this time period.
@@lukasausen speed, precision, and tactical awareness would be reasons a US super carrier group would hold a sizable advantage over a WWII IJN Naval fleet. Would do more than enough damage not just from the carrier itself, but from the guided missile cruisers and destroyers equipped with cruise missiles.
I didn't even think about night operations. That combined with the ability to absolutely dictate when the battle takes place is a devastating advantage. The Japanese would have no counter. Their carriers would just blow up in the dark with them having no idea why. Even if they knew, there's nothing they could do about it.
@@Michael-cf9cj open sea naval warfare today is light years ahead from how it was conducted 80 years ago.
Funny, didn't mention that US Supercarriers have around 50-200 nuclear bombs a piece. Nippon would be a crispy critter by week two.
Not to mention that fallout would be minimal because nukes are airburst.
Or better yet, how about the entire 1940s Japanese navy vs. 5 modern ICBMs (any size, any capacity).
Downtown Tokyo vs Puff the magic dragon
@@arnox4554 the Japanese, because 5 ICBMs can’t destroy a whole fleet
@@whosagoodgirl5846 If they were really spread out, yeah, I could see that, but then, you don't need to kill every ship. Just knock out all the command and communication.
One major factor I think you aren't taking into account is the training and material of the US crew. The military goes into pretty great depths on theory for stuff like communications, nuclear reactors, ordnance and all kinds of stuff that is required for each ship to function. You don't think about it much today cause "who cares how a transistor functions, yeah its just... " but boom you just replaced vacuum tubes 8 years early. Even the dumbest techs onboard probably knows equal to the greatest minds in the field during the 40s. Having them all get together and write out and print 1000 basic manuals of everything they can think off collectively would advance tech 20 years in a week let alone any training material or tech manuals onboard for copying. Basic transistors were still used to build an Atari, yeah old old tech by our standards, but computationally stronger than the tech that got us to the moon calculation wise. Imagine the power of the crews cellphones alone, things already built to run on 2 prong US power sources, than imagine how useful the prebuilt calculator app alone is to people designing and engineering on a slide rule. Something so perfectly accurate it can calculate to within 10 decimals instantly at a time when 3 decimals was overkill that took minutes. Imagine the machine shop in the carrier, inside it a decade old metal lathe that can get down to 5 micron precision at a time when they couldn't even measure that. That you can use to build more lathes and precision measuring tools to almost instantly make manufacturing 50 to 100 times more accurate. Old laptops the crew have sitting around can go straight onto radio broadcasts making your communications absolutely uncrackable for decades just because no one could even read a basic packet even if they figured out they could carry data, and there should be enough combined capability to rig up that kind of adhoc network. Basic cameras and their sensors would become the beginnings for advance imaging as they can just cheat and measure the precise (with your new super accurate tools) curvature of 60 plus years of glass design for image purposes. Even just a basic catalog of each exact shape, ratio, and capability would advance sensor tech and those could be produced in house. Knowing stuff alone like space absolutely exists and humanity can absolutely survive it, aside from stuff like orbits, geostationary orbits are a thing, and that rockets are important to get there, would advance people 10 to 20 years at a time when those were theoretical or not even thought of yet. Then think about things like hobbies, nowadays someone knowing how to tune a V8 to 500 hp is so common as to be laughably easy, even with something with a carburetor, but imagine how advantageous it would be to turbocharge your jeeps, boost your tanks, anything miltary that the car hobby coincides with anyway, that you can then manufacture wide scale for implementation with the new more precise manufacturing tech they are pushing out. This also applies to other concepts like someone that knows sloped armor is more effective from some game they played, maybe someone likes to blacksmith so they know modern hardening techniques, gardening or farmers that joined that understand crop rotations, pesticides, and fertilizers.
That actually shows how important and difficult engineering preciseness is. And aircraft carrier crew's collective knowledge alone would be a powerful advantage.
Sheesh just think alone of them marvelling over the mobile phones and laptops, tablets etc the crewmen would have as personal belongings.
Give an iPhone to Einstein, see what happens.
The USN might be capable of rebuilding its strength by 1946, and the outcome of the war is more or less the same long before any advanced technology could be replicated. Reverse-engineering may sounds easy, but back then, the tools they have were not precise enough to make an exact replication because they'll be missing a lot of prerequisite science and technologies. The transistor inside the computer chips, for example, is going to be a headache to study and replicate. It'll take at least a decade of building new type of industrial base to reproduce the technology. However, weapons like the Harpoon is based on late 1970s design, so it's possible that they could probably make something equivalent to the earliest block of Harpoon in a few years, but the US might beat Japan with its current tech before that could be fielded in number.
@@mickeyg7219 That's one of my points. The Machine Shops, machinist's mates, all that hardware and precision measuring equipment along with the know how to use it that sits in the bowels of a ship just in case you need to fix something in house for a modern navy. Plasma cutters run on electricity and compressed air, both things they have in 1942, but the first plasma cutter itself wasn't invented until the mid fifties. You use things like those plasma cutters and lathes to quickly build another "ultra precise" for the time at least machines and tools. You take those 2 to make 4, the 4 make 8, and so on. You revolutionize manufacturing decades in months. They may not get high enough technology wise to rearm you sufficiently, but imagine how much faster liberty ships that only took days to build anyway could be made when plasma cutters make it 70% faster to roughly shape the metal. And plasma cutters are basically just a modified arc welder plus compressed air, things they already had, so you could mass produce them easily with the tech of the time slightly enhanced by the design of the future. Stuff like that is the major impact, decades of manufacturing and innovation that can be tapped almost instantly to increase production of an already economic superpower.
A carrier group outfitted with modern aircraft: absolutely. Without modern aircraft probably yes. Just a carrier, I don't think so. As far as I'm aware they are quite vulnerable without escorts. (Though I doubt their defenses are common knowledge)
actually, no. jets will burn through fuel and parts. guns run out of bullet. gg carrier
@@Blox117 sure but far more advanced weaponry, both offensively and defensively which would cause catastrophic casualties.
Eventually a single carrier could lose.
A single carrier strike group would not, not with the offensive capabilities of modern day cruisers and destroyers, attach a refueling ship into that group for good measure. That's also not factoring in modern day submarines.
The only viable strategy is to try and force the modern ships to expend fuel, but today's ships are both faster and with further range, while in theory being more accurate with guns with computer controls for the optimal Fire Control Solution
Probably the most useful thing would be a jumpstart on nuclear technology, be able to study the reactor and then the technicians to be able to probably spear head something like the Manhattan project.
Very interesting scenario, but two things not modelled are the modern sailors' knowledge of history and what effect the modern sailors' knowledge of technology would have on the rebuilding of the WW2 era fleet. Things like possible lithium-ion batteries for subs, homing torpedoes, radar, night vision, the fundamentals of helicopters, etc. That might be something for another video, maybe by a CZcamsr specializing in alternate history.
still would take decades to build up the industry/tooling/skills to produce that equipment....it would happen MUCH faster, but would still take time.
*After WW2, a lot of professionals in the USA had strong sympathies for communism = that is how Russia developed their own nukes so quickly. So all this modern tech would be leaked as well.
@Imagination Is Power Setting aside inherent strength loss with 'Power Projection', destroying a destroyed country is actually a LOT harder than an advanced country.
The USA is the strongest country (militarily) in terms of 'Power Projection'....BY FAR! But that doesn't mean they can beat a country like China (for example) by invading it. The USA could only project a tiny bit of its power in China...while the Chinese could bring everything they have to bear.
But NOBODY can even hope to project power (invade) the USA....well, except millions of illegals streaming from South America, of course.....
And then there's the reaction from other countries. Word of a super carrier appearing out of nowhere and destroying the Japanese Navy would surely spread like wild fire.
I'd like to imagibe how Britain, Nazi Germany and Russia would react. No doubt Hitler and Stalin would like to get their hands on the modern tech or force their countries to start making similar weapons.
In 1942 that would be considered a moving bermuda triangle... cause anything enemy suddenly vanishes.
Leaving aside the Super Hornets, Arleigh Burke class destroyers are guided missile destroyers, and carry both Harpoons and Tomahawks. 2 of them would have enough firepower to destroy every capital ship the IJN had at the time, although they wouldn't have enough to destroy all the subs and destroyers as well. Just that would be more than enough to cripple the Japanese ability to prosecute the war, though.
Isnt it said that a supercarrier carries or can carry more fighters than most countries around the world that has fighters?
The Imperial Japanese Navy had roughly 400 military aircraft during 1941. The reason many countries in the world don't have a lot of aircraft is because we are at peace, not wartime, countries do not need a large military in peace time.
Probably... because "most countries" don't have much of an air force. For instance any country south of the US that's largely true, Canada has about 100 fighters so not so much there. But then if you talk Europe many of the "larger" countries (France, German, Poland, etc) absolutely not, and that's mostly due to proximity to Russia. Ditto with middle eastern countries such as Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Israel etc, basically areas of potential conflict, the rest of Africa though not so much. Also most pacific islander nations (Fiji, Tonga, etc) don't have much of an air force either, but then as you start getting near China then it ramps back up Taiwan, Japan have substantial air forces. Now if you want an actual country by country break down to figure out how many countries are required for "most"... well that's research you need to do on your own.
A super carrier at max capacity (there’s never been a case of this AFAIK) has more planes than about 90% of the air forces on earth. Basically the rest of NATO, China, India, Pakistan, and a couple other countries have more than we can carry on a super carrier
Not by World War 2 standards where fighters were a lot cheaper.
That said the Largest Air Force in the world is the U.S. Air force, and the Second Largest is the U.S. Navy.
Note: modern fighters have CCIP targeting. Dumb bombs can be lobbed accurately.
Main US issue would be amount of ammunition.
We would have to assume for the sake of this scenario that the super carrier has sufficient fuel and ammunition to operate for the duration.
And not being able to land marines as effectively.
Aaron that is sort of countered by there speed and detection advantages they could detect them approaching any critical assets and chase them down
Basically us ships and aircraft could run on rudimentary jet fuel made from kerosene; could jury rig WWII ordnance(American jets were dropping WWII vintage bombs in Vietnam). Spare parts is what would do in the strike group. The planes would only last so long before parts couldn’t be replaced. Even then, the nuclear powered carrier and her escorts could still use their radar, sonar and aegis systems to make sure they never got jumped. The onboard guns could be resupplied using 40s vintage shells. The carrier could totally fly off period aircraft once it’s airwing was gone.
@@AaronRMG Food,water,clothing,spare armor vests and plating,gun lubricant and spare parts for guns,spare survival knives,ect. will also be one of the biggest issues as well.Which ever side has the most supplies for their troops will be more nourished than the other;and can win a war of attrition that way.
“Guys what if we got a group of caveman to fight the terminator” that’s my response to whenever people ask these questions 💀
Well, a US carrier group can destory the entire military of many smaller countries today, so I doubt they would have any trouble with a navy frim almost a century ago
honestly, the radar technology alone would make it a stomp. ships were being tracked with literal paper maps and intercepted radio messages.
No they also had radar, that’s how the British tracked the Bismarck so well.
Every ship in that group has a minimum of 2 or 3 tech manuals for every single sslystem and part on board. Composition of jet fuel, maintenance records, schematics, soup to nuts everything can and has to be made on board at times. Maintaining the aircraft would be a matter of getting tech specs to US Military R&D and they could have all the work done quite quickly. We had plenty of chemists, metallurgical experts, engineers and mechanics, they didn't have the knowledge. The only issue will be computer parts as silicone chips and stuff are way beyond the pay grade of a Lt JG. They do carry boxes of stores and with the new upgrades to older planes and even new versions of planes, there would be no shortage of sorties off the deck. The torpedoes on the helos would be a MASSIVE upgrade to the US torpedo and would change the entire war in the Atlantic over night. And an earlier poster was right, a single reactor tech petty officer and the right weapons specialist could probably build you a nuke faster than Los Alamos because they didn't have to invent it from scratch.
Exactly, reverse engineering most of the technology on board would be fairly simple.
The hard (expensive) part would be mining and refining the uranium. They'd still need to build the Oak Ridge plant.
@NSResponder difference being they have all the reactor techs who know all about it already. Wouldn't take much to build because they know what to do. Took forever when they were groping in darkness for a lightswitch. It's like looking for a special store, once you've been there it's easy to find again. I can tell you, knowing some of the reactor techs, that their training went well beyond learning how to read the dials, but the education at reactor school goes into theory and a whole bunch of other stuff that's not common knowledge now but not hard to find or understand now, but Einstein would lose his mind over back then. Especially if you just so happened to be on a carrier with nukes on board. Imagine dropping a nuke on Japan that's 5000 times the power and thats not full yield. The world would cower at what we could do with just the jets, let alone the nukes. The threat alone would basically make the US the only global power probably for a century or more until someone else caught up, and we could prevent that because we know where the Uranium and plutonium and other rare earth metals come from. We can exploit them and no one else gets them, they can't do much without them. It's like going to a gold mine in the 1850s, you know how rich and where to dig so it's not guess work for you. Go to the founding of the Ford motor company, and buy stock. Sell just before the crash, and butly again a year later when it's barely worth the ink and paper. How rich would you be now?
He forgot to mention that also the strike group would have advanced knowledge of each attack from history class
What this scenario ignores is the psychological effect of the summary destruction of ALL of Japan's carriers in short order. As with Midway, after the loss of the carriers the Japanese navy was fatally wounded, never to recover and never to pose a serious threat to even the ww2 American Navy. So a modern US carrier would prove devastatingly decisive in the short term, and to a greater extent than even Midway. All of this ignores the psychological impact on Japanese sailors from experiencing the shock of unanswerable, unknowable ferocity while they found their ships suddenly destroyed by an unseen enemy. The ww2 Japanese Navy would not recover from the initial contact, end of story.
It's not outside the realm of possibility that Japan would immediately surrender after witnessing their Navy be obliterated by some unseen, god-like force with zero warning.
You are forgetting that they did not surrender after the first nuke.
But only after the 2nd
Just think if Yamamoto received a phone call from FDR, being told: “Look, we’ll sink 15 ships of yours in the next 8 hours, of which 4 carriers and 2 battleships, and you will not be able to do anything about it. If you do not surrender within 24 hours after the attack, Tokyo will be erased from the maps within 48 hours from now”.
The latter is just a bluff but after seeing the outcome of the first battle confirming the first menace, it may be effective.
I don't think so.
@@jmc4791 czcams.com/video/5hfYJsQAhl0/video.html
The US tried to sink one of their own decommissioned carriers as a test. They couldn't sink it with their own missiles or torpedoes, direct hits for hours and it kept floating. The had to scuttle it from the inside using engineers and controlled explosives. I doubt the entire Japanese sub fleet could sink a modern carrier, even if it strolled up to visual distance of Tokyo.
Everyone gangsta until kamikaze squad rolls up
@@killerso_0138 search up Phalanx Point Defense and then scroll through the comments. You see hilarious stories of how idiots were tripping their sensors with thrown rocks on the other side of their final protective line. If zeros can survive through that kind of automated fire, I think the Japanese would have won ww2 with pilots as skilled as those.
@@tarantulathree-one8013 try again. Those were stories from the early days of these systems. Technology is always being updated. They use it Cousins to shoot down rockets and motoars at US bases.
But that's not the biggest problem of your post it how did the Kamikasi get that close to begin with. Did they suddenly develop stealth technology in 1942
@@Matt-mt2vi "But that's not the biggest problem of your post it how did the Kamikasi get that close to begin with. Did they suddenly develop stealth technology in 1942"
Unconcerned group commander letting them get in range of CIWS to make use of those munitions and save fighter ammunition for things that can't or won't come to them. A portion of everything the carrier group needs would have to be sent to the US mainland for study and design of factories to produce them, else the carrier and its escorts will become useless in short order.
@@tremedar you don't see how much jumping through hoops you are doing to get to that point.
1. Im not ignoring probability of bad or toxic leadership that can be found in civilian or in the military. But you are not going to find a unconcerned carrier commander that would put themselves in position like that. Not billions of dollars worth of equipment and up to 4k sailors. Even worth far more as it being the only operational ship.
2. They are not giving up weapons used to protect themselves. Not planes, Helicopters, nor their 600 some anti air missles on the 4 ships.
Also CIWIS 20×102mm ammunition was made in that era. Technology improvement would be faster if it came from on board engineers and manuals than the equipment itself. Even if they needed too they only need 1 or 2 of each.
Kamikasi only came around once they were losing the war and were basically minimal trained pilots from land bases.
So this is your reasoning, summed up. The carrier with such disregard of danger. Gave up all its air defense weapons guns and missles on all 4 ships to be studied (Or not enough to stop waves of planes to get by) Plus they gave up all their planes, so Ariel radar or CAP. And they got within what 30 miles of a Japanese island with an airbase, with almost no protection. For what reason would they do that?
One thing you forget..Modern carrier has nuclear weapons as well as conventional weapons…
Well here comes early hiroshima and nagasaki
Not only that but the warheads are probably way more kilotons than what was actually dropped on Japan
I don't think US carriers have nukes anymore.
@@missano3856they don't "officially" have any nuclear weapons onboard any surface vessels
@@joebarthram596 I suspect the official truth is the truth in this case.
Id imagine even with the fuel and weapon ammo reserve issues...the simple fact that our modern jets are so fast and stealthy would allow then to just straight up take down the carriers no problem. Really all they would need to do. Without air support the enemies would be fucked.
Soooo don’t try to fight with air power at all, a carrier is a carrier
They tend to share a common weakness with battleships, that being submarines
@korhol2065 true...but itd be mutual destruction at that point. Like you said thered be zero air troops left. But the jets could also just raid their command centers while they have fuel. Many factors to take in tbh
This is like a Civilization game when you're two entire technology eras ahead of the enemy.
It's way more than two eras.... especially in electronics and weaponry. There's simply no comparison. 1942-2012 is 70 years.... Think about just the average household from then til now and think about how the military must have advanced.
@@johnlee1297 You must have not played Civilization before. The game splits it up into general eras of history. You unlock World War 2 level of technology in the Modern Era, then there is the Atomic Era, and then the Information Era which we live in today. Thus 2 eras difference in the game between stuff like the first submarines and aircraft carriers to missile cruisers, jet fighters, and nuclear subs.
I can't help but think from a tactics standpoint the Carrier group would prioritize targets. I suspect night would set on the Pacific Ocean and the next morning inexplicably the entire Japanese naval group would have just disappeared with scant or little information on what the hell happened. By the end of the week, I would think parts of Tokyo would just start exploding in the middle of the night. With that massive advantage in intel and radar, the Japanese might never actually lay their eyes on the Carrier group. The fog of war, and simply not know what the hell was going on would probably be the most effective weapon against Japan. When your entire navy just starts disappearing, and you have not actually inflicted any confirmed damage on the USA that has got be debilitating. They would have no idea this was only one Carrier Group, could all USA ships do this? Japan's entire strategy was to get the USA to the negotiating table, and they knew they could not beat the USA in a prolonged war. When they can't even get a confirmed kill, they would have to be seriously rattled.
I agree that logistical it can’t solo.
However if supported and the US given access to not just their tech but historical documents, and support of modern engineers?
Technological improvements a loan would probably shorten the war by a great deal.
Certainly the nuclear power generators would speed up nuclear weapon development much faster
The answer is yes. Easily. And they would never even see what hit them.
rubbish, the carrier would be defenceless against submarines. It would also be hopeless if a battleship caught it.
@@WelRod-zo6zy IF, which wouldnt happen...
@@WelRod-zo6zy brother shut up considering u didnt watch the video and the fact that u dont understand carriers have antisub abilities (designed for modern subs and not the tin cans they had in 1945, no less)
@@WelRod-zo6zyIt’s an entire carrier group, not just a carrier. That means it has destroyers with it, that are extremely good against submarines
I do wonder, even if a battleship did get in range (which honestly, they won’t, a carrier far outranges a battleship and is also quite a bit faster than them thanks to nuclear propulsion), wouldn’t the carrier be able to fire tomahawks and have a pretty good fighting chance.
It would be a turkey shoot. - Wouldnt even be a match. Thats not to disparage ships of that era. 80 years have passed. The same could be said of a WW2 battleship vs. a civil war naval task force. And the same would be true of a carrier task force 80 years from now vs. one from today. It is because of those earlier ship that we have what we have now.