The Confusing Messy Origin Of Robin | Damian Wayne
Vložit
- čas přidán 19. 08. 2021
- Damian Wayne, son of Batman, Robin, child of the League of Assassins. This character has been polarising for many fans since his inception (or rather conception ha!). However, the course of Damian's origins are more complex than they first appear. Bruce Wayne and Talia Al Ghul have a complicated history and Damian is woven in to that. From first appearances, to retcons, to elseworlds there's more than meets the eye to Damian Wayne. Find out all about it and a writer's mistake that changed everything here on Casually Comics!
Merch!
casually-comics.creator-sprin...
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @casuallycomics
DC Comic Reviews -
• Green Lantern VS Shark...
#casuallycomics #robin #batman #damianwayne #origins #comics #comicbooks #taliaalghul #sonofthedemon #retcon #grantmorrison
P.O Box :
88 Wyndham St N
P.O Box 92 Guelph,
Guelph, On, Canada
N1H 6J9
Kofi -
ko-fi.com/casuallycomics
Follow Me On Insta -
/ casuallycomics
Business Inquiries/Contact Me:
casuallycomics@gmail.com - Zábava
For some reason, male Bat-heroes getting raped is always downplayed. First rape of Dick Grayson is played strangely for laughs and the second had that comment from Devin Grayson that "It wasn't rape, it was just a non-consentual sex".
There was that one time Nightwing was tricked into sleeping with someone who was impersonating Starfire, but for some reason everyone (including Starfire) blamed him for not realising she wasn’t Starfire and they acted like he cheated on her when HE WAS BLOODY RAPED, YOU BUTTS
@@DuelaDent52 yeah, it was Mirage. Hilariously, she lived through all Titans' purges.
@@DuelaDent52 He was tricked into having *sex*. It's not rape in this case. smh
@@louisalectube actually it Is because if he had known he would've said no, bring tricked into sex is still rape
Not just bat ones. See also Green Arrow getting raped by Shado to have a kid, same with Jack Knight Starman and the second Mist. It seemed a common way to give male heroes kids for a while unfortunately.
You didn’t even get it to the artificial aged with a room full of genetically manipulated clones/brothers.
This needs a part 2
YES! This really needs a part 2!
Or the Robins born out of whales
@@mansourhaddad398 OK. I just don't know what's real anymore.
@@freddogrosso9835 Everything is real... and so nothing is.
Damian's age has always been a problem. But after Flashpoint reduced Batman's _entire career_ to five years, it became a problem that was impossible to ignore. Thus the artificial aging.
I think having Batman be a survivor of assault could be interesting if they ever took it seriously.
He is not the only one either. Green Arrow (always copying Batman) was drugged and assaulted,
Let's be real tho. Batman has worse stuff happen to him than a girl he is kind of attracted to anyway forcing herself on him for breakfast. Okay sure it isn't okay or right, but Batman being permanently scarred by it would feel way out of character
Not at the expense at a character that I liked just because some asshole didn’t even read the original comic.
By mistake? Nah. Plus he has enough trauma. This would be a drop in an ocean. It would get lost in the shuffle. It's hard when a character already has established motivations.
I feel like the betrayal of it being Talia, a woman he really felt a lot of love for, who raped him would’ve made it cut deep. Coupled with the fact that she essentially used him for genetic material for her father’s schemes. IN ADDITION TO the fact that she kept a secret child’s existence from him. A child he had the right to know about and raise. Well, damn, it’s a huge massive lot of issues to unpack there.
I've always enjoyed Talia/Bruce, and to find out that Morrison literally just forgot how the original comic went is... extremely disheartening. Talia was recharacterized as a rapist just because they didn't reread the source material??? Absolutely agonizing.
Judd destroyed Taila and Bruce
Explains why it wasn’t adressed at least. Morrison probably assumed it was covered in some way or another in the original story.
Yes I totally agree!
so when a super guy does those things its bad but when a hole does it its a great love story
My favorite Robin. My only gripe is DC’s inability to have consistency with him. Depending on who’s writing he’s either a great character or the same one we read back in 2006. I find it lazy when writers don’t pay any attention to established character growth.
As a Damian fan, I agree with this for most of the same reasons. One of my friends calls him a sh*thead because that’s how he is characterized. I’m really enjoying his solo run rn
Exactly. So many people revert him back to his day one asshole persona
I was introduced to Damien by the animated movies. And really didn't like what I saw.
@@Awestefeld6612 that's because the animated movies keep rebooting him back to his 2006 version. Even within the continuity of the movies. With each Movie they reset the character and undo whatever growth he had in the last one.
I used to think I hated Damian, because he's always been written as an asshole for assholes sake, but I've recently realized he's actually a really deep character that writers just do NOT know how to interpret. And as a Jason Todd fan, I definitely understand that😅
Talia: *chemically and physically assaults Bruce for a baby*
Also Talia: "I call dibs on full custody."
Bruce: "Do- do i Still have to pay child support?"
@@sebswede9005 Yes. Even if he wasn't your son
Also Also Talia: "I have shit to do, I'm dumping this kid you didn't know existed on you for an undetermined amount of time! Now honey, break his shit."
Unfortunately, even to this day men being assaulted by women is usually played for laughs. It really ticks me off.
The Pop Culture Detective did a video on this subject.
Agreed. It’s so messed up
@@dreamlandnightmare I'll have to look into that, thanks.
Can't wait for "Jarro: The only one of Bruce's kids to call him Dad."
Also the only Robin with powers. :)
Fr fr
I was gonna get mad and say duke, but he hasn't officially ever been a robin, only like as part of a teen group and in future's end
@@unixmoon4842
You don't have to be a Robin to be one of Bruce's kids. Just look at Cassandra...or m'boy Jarro.
Honestly cassandra is more his kid than Damien @@SaraBanartist
Having Damian be born out of the result of sexual assault/rape is a pretty...big deal. I'm honestly really surprised it's not treated as such by writers and more as a passive joke. "Haha Bruce cover your drink next time" he's the victim of rape, that's a terrible joke. Imagine saying that to someone in real life.
I'd really love a story that highlights this. As someone who's experienced sexual assault myself, this is pretty glaring to me. And it's honestly disgusting if the reason they play it off as jokes is because "oh men can't be sexually assaulted".
This is a pretty major thing to highlight, and it should be.
one of the major reasons I hate damian, other than how he treats the other robins, is how he treats bruce about him getting assulted. I really just can't deal with damian after that
Retconing an consensual relationship into drug rape has to be one the worst character assassination in comics, that and the whole let's turn Magneto a holocaust survivor into a Nazi.
What on earth are you talking about with Magneto?
Yeah hold up they did WHAT with magneto
Excuse me the did WHAT with ma boi Eric?
Can you elaborate on that Magneto thing?
They did what to who now?
I think Morrison was mis-remembering "I Now Pronounce You Batman and Wife!" from DC Special Series #15, where Batman was drugged by Rā's al Ghūl to facilitate Batman's marriage to Talia.
The marriage was referenced in "Son of the Demon," so perhaps Morrison's memory disastrously blurred the two stories, leaving this result.
Yeah, that was my guess too, either way, now we have day rape so enjoy
D.C can’t decide what they want to do with legacy characters. Tomasi was developing Damian pretty well in super sons, and then Dan Didio wanted him and Jon to have some sort of Magneto professor X rivalry, so they made him start doing evil crap again. Now it seems he’s back to being a hero again so I don’t know what to think of him now.
And they stupidly aged Jon up too.
As bad as the excesses of the 90s got, no one creator can be pinpointed and blamed for what happened to comics then. But the blame for what I've started calling the New52 era rests solely at the feet of Dan Didio. The man is the Anti-Monitor irl.
Honestly whenever a new writer gets Damian they always seem to reset his character growth so they can tell the same plot with over and over again. It’s honestly refreshing thats that’s not what’s happening with Damian’s current solo run (though he has regressed a little but that’s mostly a carry over from the previous stories he was in)
@@the_well-known_stranger2275 But he's once again paired with a superhero's son. First Dick, then Jon now Connor. It is a retelling of the same old plot...Damien's contrasts then eventual character growth when he becomes close with another son of a superhero. But it's not character growth if he regresses every new writer. Marvel has the same problem with Kid Omega, another snot-nosed Grant Morrison creation.
@@spiderhamilton1 he isn’t pairing up with Conner
I'd be fine with the new canon Damian backstory if DC treated Batman's rape with respect and not a joke, like in the Son of Batman movie.
Yeah, that was really awful. Like, imagine if you spoke to the person who sexually assaulted you after a very long time of not seeing them and one of the first things they do is incorporate that assault into a flirty little throwaway line. It was a horrible movie.
Nothing can ever be easy. Good point about D.C. writers disrespecting Alfred. I think the short way you said it would have been a much better way to bring Damian into the Bat family.
I want a domestic family man Batman, if for no other reason than hearing Sasha read about PTA and little league in a Batman voice.
Oh buddy, you got your wish.
This has always ticked me off, especially because I love Son of the Demon. And also, Talia was essentially the first fictional love interest I ever knew of as a kid, so seeing her switched from the woman torn between her Dad and the man she loved, who had compassion and humanity, but also a degree of loyalty to her father to a total, hardcore psycho was beyond jarring. What was also interesting was how, during Dini's run that was concurrent with Morrison's, Dini wrote Talia as essentially the classical version, whereas Morrison wrote her as the psycho, even though their stories were supposed to be following after one another.
Morrison`s had alcohol and women issues since forever!That`s not uncommon for dudes from the UK!
I am in agreement that I think Damian's origin would have been a little bit better if was from the 1987 story instead of what we got. I just think it would have been an interesting story seeing if Bruce could come to terms with finding out that Talia was willing to give up the family they could have had in order for him to still be Batman.
Damien, Harley Quinn’s greatest archenemy.
Such a cute potato pie.
Turns out that sweet potato pie lied
And on national TV no less
@@Monochrome_11 WHAT ? No ! How could he ?
Should he be grounded ?
Nemesises for life!
lol one of the best episodes
Batman: We will name it Thomas or Martha if it's a girl
Talia or Selena: Yeah, about that.
people still don't realize how important that single punch was to cover everyone's ass
-Morison, Grant
My only problem with Damian Wayne is that his very existence brings up questions of "How long has Batman been Batman?". If Damian is 14 years old, then Batman has been Batman for at least 14 years. And he probably needs to have been a prominent public figure (because why would Ra's care about him otherwise), not just a "does he exist or not" urban legend, so Batman needs to have been Batman for a few more years than that. Clearly, the old "ten year timeline" idea can't possibly work. This starts to get almost as messy as figuring out "How long has Wonder Woman been Wonder Woman in the pre-Crisis continuity" since she rescued baby Donna Troy from a fire and then Donna grew up to be an adult who got married.
I always assumed that Bruce is in his mid 40's but the comics make him look like he's between 25 and 30 lol.
ISTR Morrison stating Damien was force-grown to his physical age of 11-12, although I could be misremembering that...
Wonder Woman became the first public hero since the 1000 issue special book. So she's been around a while. In a way it mirrors the wonder woman movie where there's just a bunch of time unaccounted for.
@Will N Not disputing this, but citation? This is new info to me, and I'm pretty well versed in DC and Batlore up until Infinite Frontier.
@@manis1551 I too always see Batman as in his mid 40s
"Easy-Peasy Retcon-Squeezy" may be my new favourite phrase :D
Boy is his origin a bunch of yikes, like even in adaptations, either never mention it, or do in passing or jokingly. What even threw me off was Talia's characterization during this. She was always pretty supportive of Bruce, but then during this and the adaptation "Batman: Bad Blood" she turns into a monster of a main villain... The hell?!
Ra's al guhl's daughter.
Member of the league of assassins.
She was always a "villain".
@@chrisbaker8533 I was a kid reading Batman during the Neal Adams run, and I must say, not to my recollection was Talia ever portrayed as a baddie (or potential baddie).
Talia was always sort of an awful person. Like you saw her trying to be decent, but it always feels like she never had a point of reference. Now she is a worse bm than Cheshire
@@chrisbaker8533 Exactly. Despite her on and off love for both of them, She's her fathers daughter, not matter how much she tries not to be.
@@quesoblanco444 That's kind of the problem with comics, in general.
A specific run might portray a character one way, then the next might totally "flip the script".
"Continuity" in comics, doesn't really exist.
He is still my personal favorite Robin and character in comics. His character development is amazing!!!
When they let it happen lol. Sometimes they "Booster Gold" him and just go how about we take him right back to square one.
He is best as Dick Grayson's partner.
@@CasuallyComics Omg, you replied!!! I completely agree and great video as always!!
@@treydodson4726 hands down, best with Grayson
@@CasuallyComics I subscribe to the Squirrel Girl/Gwenpool ideology, that good stories still matter even if they end and are changed later. Damian's character development is stellar when given a writer who cares, like in Super Sons, Truth and Justice, Son of Batman, or the current Robin series
It's strange to me that Damian quit being Robin, but is in his own book called Robin, still wearing the R. Makes me wonder what name Tim is going to be taking when Damian comes back.
Tim will always be Red Robin to me. He is the one with the most attachment to the mantle because of how much older we was when he got it and how much it meant for him even before he got the mantle itself. Robin will always be the Batman side-kick. Red Robin is only Tim and him alone.
@@ianesgrecia8568 you mean the name that is just robin while he wears dick greystone kingdom come costume.
Why does Tim even need an identity anymore. Or he should get a new one.
I've said this for years. Either Tim needs to become a normal clothes private eye or government one.
Or use red bird, or red wing or something.
Red Robin is just Robin with the word red on it. It's arrested development of the character.
@@DSan-kl2yc He probably will. Even with his attachement to the Robin mantle. But just as being RED Robin instead of just Robin he is taking his place.
He LIKES the name of Robin. And didnt want to lose it in the first place, as oposed to other Robins that either wanted to "grow up from the mantle" or were literally killed with it
“Some people equate ‘realistic’ with brutal.” -cringes in gun tank Batman and cranky edge lord Superman-
I was especially pissed at the update cause I was a huge fan of "Son of the Demon". I had my own idea for reintroducing the child to the Batman storyline and it didn't involve date rape drugs. My idea started with Bruce meeting the child with his adoptive parents through social circles and it was only when the League tries to kidnap the boy that Bruce's suspicions are aroused. He gets the real story from Talia and she tells him that she wanted their child to be born clean, free of both her father and Bruce's worlds. She then reveals that she even told Ra's she'd had a miscarriage but he suspected she was lying. Now he is seeking his grandchild to claim his heir. By the end of my story I was going to have Bruce realize that Talia was right and his son deserves the happy normal childhood he was denied. To that end he fakes a DNA test to prove to Ra's that the child is not his and Talia was telling the truth about the miscarriage. So the child returns to his happy life in the normal world with his "parents". But, Bruce tells Talia he will be watching over him from now on.
Damian Wayne reads your idea and tries to pretend he isn't salty by the happy childhood and well-writen origin story he could've had.
I personally love Damian. The fact that he's so young (most times) and is a gifted assassin is awesome. Also the fact that it takes Bruce to get him to see the value in not killing and helping people, Justice, not vengeance. Overall, I just think he's badass especially around other youth, he's so hardcore.
I loved the dynamic when Dick became Batman and Damian was Robin.
It was the natural progression of the Batfamily. Ever since they made Dick Nightwing again the whole family and “timeline” just sucked. Legacy characters can almost never grow up and it’s frustrating. At least when Barry Allen died in Infinite Crisis, Wally went from Kid Flash to THE Flash for 20+ years. But when Barry came back of course new 52 happened less than 6 years later and Wally disappeared for years smh
This was my favorite Era for the entire Batfam. Dick shoulda stayed Bats, Damian shoulda stayed Robin, Babs shoulda stayed Oracle, Steph shoulda stayed Batgirl, and Bruce shoulda stayed dead.
@@Wiccanslyr totally.
what comic issue and issues does it happen ?! new here
@@valentine4620 Grant Morrison's Batman and Robin. I think it ran for about a year under its own title, it's available in graphic novel form.
I love Grant Morrison at the best of times, but he really should have done his homework with Talia. Talk about character assassination...
do one about Cassandra Cain next please
Cassandra Cain was my favorite Batgirl. Whereas some of these “girl” characters come off as knock offs of the original “man” characters, Cassandra was unique. She wasn’t a tennis pro or take a gymnastics class or practice self defense at the Y and then decide that she could put on a costume and fight thugs with guns. She was raised from birth to be lethal and it was interesting the way Batman and especially Oracle tried to guide her development. Hated when they made her Otphan and what they did to her in the Birds of Prey movie.
@@batandjoefan8108 , Cass, my favorite too
My feelings on Damian "It's complicated". As a fan of Tim, I disliked what it did to his place in comics after New 52 and I dislike how him being the bio son invalidates the adopted sons in the eyes of DC. All of that being said, I loved Tomasi's work with the character and pre New 52 Tim as Red Robin felt more like a graduation from his role after a while.
@Casually Comics There is a few more Interesting things about “Son of the Demon”
1) Mike Barr wrote the kid in as a shock value, nothing more. At the time, it was a 20 dollar book, and Barr wanted people to get their money’s worth.
2)Back then Ra’s and Talia creator, Denny O’Neal hated the idea of Batman and Talia having a kid. In fact, he could have killed that part of the story.
However, O’Neal wasn’t editor of Batman, and was respectful of creative choices. When he did become editor of the Batman line, the first chance he got was he eliminated “Son of the Demon”…and no one cared.
3) O’Neal intended for Talia, Batman and Ras to be an unending tragedy. Ras wanted Batman as his Son-In-Law, but his world domination, Ecco-terrorism ways mad them mortal enemies. Talia loved Bruce, but she desired Batman and believed in her fathers mission. Bruce loved Talia, but her devotion to her father and love would mean he would stop being Batman.
4) Damien was supposed to remain dead. In fact he was supposed to be killed during his first story arc. But Morrison felt that wouldn’t be as emotional as getting to know Damien first.
Acknowledging that some of this specific issue was due to errors, I feel like Grant Morrison sometimes falls into the school of writing in which complexity is added to a story by just making things convoluted rather than nuanced.
I love all the Robins, Damian included, I like this uphill battle he has to go through. I think it makes him compelling. I would say even though I'm not a Bruce/Talia shipper I don't like the SA addition
I preferred Talia and Bruce's relationship as genuinely caring for one another, but having a barrier between them that they'd have to overcome. The drugging is just--yeah, no thank you.
I never minded Damien that much, personally. Oh, I get that his abrasiveness could rub people the wrong way, but I tend to see it as part of his character journey, to get over himself, work within his father's limitations, and grow into someone worthy of the Bat mantel, not because of his bloodline, but of his deeds and character. If nothing else, he can (when written well) be a good foil for the other allies/sidekicks that generally have their egos in check.
"Thirsting for Tali after all these years..." Ahh.. I see you're a person of culture as well.
I feel like super sons is the best depiction of him, but I would love to see a short series where Tim and Damian have to be partners for something, because the two of them have a lot to work through, and I feel like they need to realise each other as brothers a bit more.
You should read thee Robin anniversary book where Damian and Tim talk and acknowledge each other with latter even giving him solid advice
While the rapping of batman is often not talked about I like that it is there. Look men get rapped and are often shamed. That it happened to the most masculin icon out there. I think it lessens it
I agree 100% that male sexual assault victims are minimized in the wider culture. However I just can't get over the imagery your typo has generated in my head.
Couldn't agree more. And the worse is that it happens on almost any case a man is put against a women in court. The stereotype that women are always the victim is very strong and not only diminish the abuse they have caused along the time, but also diminish the strengh of Women themselves
I would agree if it was handled better, like invincibles sa, but it was brushed over, i love grant morrisons writing but it can miss alot
Fell in love with this character thanks to Super Sons 👌, Shame what's happened to him and that pairing since them.
Super Sons for life.
Bat fam just ain't complete without all the members.
Super Sons was such a wonderful series. I hate Bendis forever for ruining it by hyper aging Jon.
@@WannabeWryter I’ll give it a watch.
@@Nightman221k Thank you
Controversial opinion but I think it would have been interesting to make Bruce and Talia divorced exes.
Their marriage wasn't toxic by any means but the romantic spark was fading and both wanted to make sure the relationship ended on good terms rather than letting the passing time sour it.
She didn't realize she was pregnant until after the divorce but because Bruce is a busy Bat Man and she is curious about motherhood she decides to raise Damian herself.
However, Talia realizes that due to her occupation Damien's life choices are going to be more limited, and wanting him to have more options than she did as a child she calls Bruce up to tell them about their son. Bruce is shocked that he was never told about his child before but takes him in regardless of the strange circumstances.
For me Damian is my favorite Robin tho I do love the other Robins and I think that there is a line from Batman in issue #657 that gets overlooked, he says that Damian's rage is born of fear which does make sense given the fact that at that time Damian is in an unfamiliar place and has been left with people that are complete strangers to him, like any kid he's scared but unlike any other kid he has been taught to not show fear so he masks it with anger.
I hate the retcon to make Damian the product of assault, when his origin was born out of love.
What is Damien Wayne's favorite band?
Ra's against the Machine.
I'll see myself out.
I was so caught off guard when I watched Son of Batman and the drugged line came up. I can't believe they used it. I like Damian a lot. I wonder if they'll keep him as kid forever or they'll age him out into a new identity. Not sure which I'd prefer.
they have to keep him young…otherwise Bruce would have adopted them all in one year.
@@Lukecash2 It was a wild year...
I've been a Damien fan since Dick became Batman and he was his Robin. Talia to me was this exotic femme fatale type, but never felt serious. As far as Bruce's relationships go, I LOVED the original Silver St. Cloud run, but he and Selina are Number 1.
That was such a good comic. It's a shame they retconned it out of existence
@@TadpoleMusics I don't know, isn't EVERYTHING supposed to be back now? Or at least remembered.
I dislike this idea where comics go out of their way to show that characters don't work out. And then acting like they might. I don't see Bruce having a one true love. But I think the normal women he dated have a better chance.
Cat woman has definitely had too many though.
This idea seems to come from earth 2 Catwoman and batman actually marrying.
Silver is eternally ruined
I have complicated feelings about Damian. Because I think he has a lot of potential and I also think the current line up of writers and editors will never allow him to reach it. They just don't let Damian grow past a certain point and that's disappointing. (I am also a Tim Drake fan. But I mostly want to see a cool reconciliation/bonding arc between him and Damian towards the tail end of an epic character arc for Damian.)
Talia, at first was a decent human being struggling with her love of Bruce and duty to her father. Now she is sort of just bats crazy bm. (Great villain in her own right) but as a parent, I'd rather deal with Cheshire. At least she doesn't actively try to kill her children
Judd put a shit stain on Taila so grant said fuck it let’s go all the way
Or the fact that jade didn’t ruin her child like talia tried to
I'm a Tim Drake fan so appreciating Damian can be.... challenging.
Finally a Tim drake fan who likes Damian
Yes I read Son of the Demon before the Grant Morrison run, so I thought the first was Damian's origin. I was disappointed with the rape but also this eugenic experiment things, Thalia didn't even bear the child but put it in a cell, it was just too edgy. So I definitely agree with you! We could have a big story about Batman realizing that he could have been a father like he really wanted to and Thalia facing the consequence of lying about her pregnancy and ruining every chance they hade, Batman and her, to be lovers but also a family.
Hot take...they should keep it but make it a big deal. Batman and his stories have committed on heavy subjects so having a strange character go through that and deal with the realistic struggles of it would be comforting for victims of SA.
Even though Tim will always be my Robin, I liked Damien from the start, though I do hate how it put Tim in flux.
That said, I feel like his introduction did irreparable harm to Talia as a character. I never preferred her as a love interest (really Talia? You can't choose between one of the world's greatest heroes and a slave owning genocidal maniac?) But after Damien's introduction it's nigh impossible to accept her as a love interest for Bruce.
Something's even retcons can't fix. Look to Hank Pym. They could try to gloss over and retcon what happened... But he's always going to be the Avenger that hit his wife.
Talia can be retconned all they want, but she will always be the woman that roofied Batman.
Yeah, once I heard that's how she got Damien, it's hard to stomach the thought of her and Bruce together. But I'd rather they retcon it into being consensual than keep it that way and pretend it isn't rape.
I love Damian he is so different from the others Robins. Of course in real life I wouldn't like to be his friend he is such a sad-brat and I am cool with that
I absolutely am living for your Batman voice. I love it so much!!! LOL
I've grown to like Damian but I also really liked Tim. I wish they hadn't screwed Tim over as hard as they did. I wish they had decided to let him go off on his own Nightwing-style before bringing in Damian as a replacement.
As someone who hasn't read DC comics in a while and hearing about Tim and Wally, I have to wonder if the DC editorial just really dislike the 90s stories. What are Impulse and Superboy (leather jacket version) up to these days? Is Cassie still around after all the reboots? I assume Arrowette and Ghost ceased to exist at some point.
@@Forsaken1ne They’re all there, but in the background.
Everybody’s favorite Demon child
I don’t enjoy the character assassination of Talia. I know she’s not a good character but she always did have true love for Batman that it seems like something she wouldn’t do. With that being said I am still a BatCat shipper
this just shows how lack luster dc is and how little they care about their characters or cannon the writers cant even check their sources before introducing huge changes to the continuity😭
I found that really interesting. I wonder if that was the general climate at DC, or just the author's.
@@quesoblanco444 Two things.
Dan Didio allowed creators to do their own thing, UNLESS, he had a company wide storyline or idea. If you were brining in the bucks, (As Morrison did) he’d allow creators freedom.
But this is a very rare slip up by Morrison part. To be fair, the original story wasn’t that memorable.
@@Lukecash2 I would not consider doing no research into the story and characters you are building off of to be "doing your own thing", it just sounds either lazy, dismissive of the genre, or arrogant.
I can't imagine any book publishers allowing that. Comic book publishers sure, and that is a bad reflection on comic book publishers.
@@Lukecash2 To not remember if a character was raped or not seems like a huge slip. But then again, Marvel had their 200th anniversary comic end with Ms. Marvel marrying her son who was her rapist rebirthed into her fast-aging child, so what do I know? 🤷♀️
8:27
“Whoops.”
“Whoopsie!”
I LOOOOOOVE your hair in this vid! It’s so elegant and yet punk rock.
Firstly, I absolutely love your top in this video! Lastly, Damian definitely took time to grow on me. I remember by the point of him being "killed off" I was emotionally attached (even if he still wasn't my favorite). His interactions with Steph in her Batgirl run probably did a lot to endear him to me, and the Adventures of the Super Sons comic with Jon were some of my favorite comics with him too.
Your Batman voice is the gift that keeps on giving.
Oh, Sasha. LOL! I faithfully watch your videos even though I rarely have anything to contribute to the discussion but let me say that I absolutely love how you always, ALWAYS, commit to the gruff Batman voice of the Nolan pictures when you read his dialogue. Even when Bats is getting the tremendous news that he is gonna be a Bat-daddy. "THAT"S WONDERFUL!" It tickles me silly and I nearly spit out my beverage!
You reading Batman's lines in the Cristian Bale voice absolutely killed me. I haven't laughed that hard in some time. Love the videos keep them coming.
I…did not realize the gravity of what Talia did to Bruce until just now. I’d already hated her before for drugging Bruce and hiding Damien from him all these years….I’ll never understand why the word “rape” never occurred to me until this video.😱
I love that Superboy-Prime punching the wall of reality is the line, the this far, no farther moment for so many fans. After every other insane thing that has happened in the world of comics, *that* is it.
CC comes in with the dank morning vids again! Love me some overly convoluted and complicated Morrison stories that draw on recontextualizing even more needlessly complicated and convoluted out of canon stories
"...his inception (or rather conception ha!)" Funny lady. Love him or hate him, he is an interesting character. Let's hope Superboy Prime doesn't recon any of your vids.
I'm not even done with the video but I need more of your Batman voice in my life
Since you mentioned the Baby someone from DC will find a way to bring the original child back as a vigilante secretly trained by Alfred because he hates Damian. Or the child goes and lives with Bruce's brother who also came back from the dead because of Super Boy Prime's punch.
Great stuff as always.
yess bruh i literally wanted this video to come out!!
I loved Son of The Demon when it came out. I still have the original poster. Even though it might have been considered non-continuity, there was a subsequent story in one of the in-continuity books where Batman and Talia meet. He wants to discuss when they were last together and she says that she is not ready to talk about it. This seemed to indicate that Son of The Demon could be read as in-continuity. Either way, as you stated, it was an easy fix to bring Damian back into the books. Writers really need to understand their character’s history before they make changes to it.
I love Damian...but I keep thinking of the first story as canon. It just makes more sense. I mean...the non drugging one XD
And it gives so much more depth to Damian's character. Cause he WAS born from love. Love that was given up because of the mission. Much more poetic 😤
The concept of a biological son is an interesting one
*glares at you in Terry McGinnis*
There’s also Helena “Huntress” Wayne from Earth-2.
My preferred interpretation is from Batman Inc Vol 2. It shows Talia mix the roofie drink, but Morrison had previously established that Bruce always switches drinks with the other person if he's in a hostile environment, and Bruce clocks 'Did you put something in my drink?' after *Talia* starts talking about settling down and getting married. The implication being that Bruce switched the drink and Talia effectively drugged herself.
That way Bruce's feelings were genuine, but Talia accidentally tipping her hand about the drugging still explains why Bruce would have broken off the relationship instead of staying and learning about Damian.
Why am I still crackin up at your Batman voice tho lol
Grant Morrison is someone I will always give credit for his awesome take on the JLA but he will always write on the side of shock rather than the side of side of continuity and look to be given props for remembering any details at all because he didn't have to remember any when it comes to those employing him. Damion always felt to me like the way Jason Todd was in attitude except he had the power of lineage behind his actions and personality which made him a jerk but with a better explanation for his jerkiness or arrogance due to his unique set of circumstances. Talia Al Ghul is the one that gets the worst treatment (character assassination) because now she is a full on rapist and still a pawn in her father's scheme. BTW Nice discussion.
Good grief, Grant Morrison...they never fail to give me a headache...
Just found this channel. Pretty cool, plus love seeing a sister be herself with confidence
Nice video Sasha. And nice hair.
I think both can work together, that Talia and Bruce have a genuine relationship and Talia is genuinely torn between Bruce and her dad, but Ra's basically coerced her into assaulting Batman to create Damian for Ra's purposes. And it would be something Talia deeply regrets, yet she genuinely loves Damian, yet she's still just so mind warped by her dad she doesn't even know how to raise Damian. So she gives him to Bruce because she knows he will be treated better than with her and Ra's.
My introduction to Damian was through the animated films where writers would awkwardly proclaim their love for him while taking a giant dump on everyone else. So naturally I hated the little brat. Softened on him since then. He's still my least favorite Robin, but how I feel about him in the moment depends on how he's written
I wish you would've mentioned Batman #666. The adult Damian story. Even tho it's never mentioned...ever(!) it can still give a little insight into how Damian truly feels about his father. In anycase videos are still great! Trying to catch up with ALL of them...
Thanks Sasha. I loved Son of the Demon. I still have my 1st edition hardcover copy of it. I really enjoyed this video.
I can't decide which voice I love more, Sasha's Batman voice or the Spider-Man voice.
Lol the scream slowly fading in over that clip
That’s how I felt watching it for the first time
Personaly it would've been a interesting and powerful if there was a story aknowledging and focusing on rape the of batman, since there aren't many stories that focused on male rapee
Agree
Male Rape was still (and to an extent still is) seen as a joke back then no way they’d have done it justice.
Ahh good old DC, "our retcon crisis created continuity issues!? How do we fix it? Another crisis!"
Your batman voice brings me the most joy in the world
Your videos are so entertaining! I don't even read DC
The grouchy batman voice if fucking killing me😂😂😂
"Easy, peasy, retcon-squeasy" 😄😄😄
Your Batman voice made me LOL. Thank you for that.
My mom would appreciate your labor facts. She was always adamant that women didn't have scream during labor but TV/movies just furthered that assumption. She herself always stated that she never screamed through birth of 3 boys, one being 9 lbs 2 oz. She's as steely as Batman. :)
I have to admit, it always cracks me up when Sasha "does the voices" for the characters. I thought my favorite was when she read as the Thing but then I saw this video where she reads lines in her Batman voice.... CLASSIC!
this is the funniest use of your Batman voice yet
Your batman voice…. Awesome. Love it. Gonna need you to record over all of bruce/ Batmans lines in batman the animated series in your batman voice. It will be your greatest gift to the world.
Talia was always a favorite of mine but it was obvious that she was going to be an eventual villain. Like catwoman but in reverse. Bruce is a hard person to write a love interest for and this, while flawed, was a decent way to bring him a son after decades of publication. He had Helena but that is a harsh topic lol. The later damian years did better for his character but he's still a great character IMO.
If not for that one early panel in the hospital it was looking like Bruce was gonna keep his cape & cowl on with Talia and smash in his Batman voice to keep his secret identity. Glad that the fans stayed with Damian cause he’s solidly in the Bat lexicon now.
The idea Bruce would give up everything to marry the woman he loves and raise a child together properly ...like, I completely buy that that's his deepest wish. A normal, healthy, loving family.
I'm sobbing.