Book Review: The Things They Carried
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- čas přidán 19. 05. 2020
- #booktube #bookreview #vietnam
My review of Tim O'Brien's engimatic "The Things They Carried."
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The idea of using fiction to tell facts is pretty interesting. In his own way I think O'Brien has a really good grasp on how human memory works. People remember impressions more than facts, and feelings more than details.
How neat to see you comment, as I just heard about your channel from Jason at Byways in Bookland! Subbing you today! And indeed, I agree how impressions seem to stay with people more than hard facts. His story about the death of Curt Lemon was haunting in its depiction of what he saw in that split second moment of the booby trap going off. Made the hair on my arm stand up.
@@TheHistoryShelf Same to you :) I found your channel through Byways in Bookland. I love history so im keen to watch some more videos and find some great new stuff!
I love Tim O'Brien's work. It's been at least 20 years since I've read The Things They Carried and listening to your discussion I feel like it's time for a re-read. I went into it having read an article that compared it to the movie Platoon (which is a similar mix of memoir and fiction), so I'd never considered how different it might feel for a reader going in expecting more of a pure memoir.
I love the novelized-memoir style of war novel in general. For me at least, they solve the memory question that always comes up with memoirs where a reader can't help but think "Could you possibly be remembering that correctly in that detail?". Harry Parker's Anatomy of a Soldier (the parallel stories of a British army captain and an Afghan insurgent told by items) is one of my recent favourites. Apparently Parker's original plan was to write a straight memoir, and it just evolved into the very non-standard novel as he realised that he wanted to tell a slightly broader story.
And of course the classic example is Siegfried Sassoon's three Sherston novels (about the pre-war, war, and post war life of a WWI-era British officer). They're so memoir-adjacent that in his actual memoir that are bits where he writes "Read X chapter of Memoirs of a Fox-Hunting Man/Memoirs of an Infantry Officer/Sherston's Progress for more details." Considering how many details from the memoirs from Sassoon's contemporaries are constantly being called into question, he got to avoid the nit-picking of generations readers by just outright calling it fiction. Not that nit-picking is bad - I've read some solidly entertaining books from people on opposite sides of trying to prove/disprove elements from TE Lawrence's Seven Pillars of Wisdom - but still.
Hi Jen! I appreciate your take on this, and I'm already adding the Harry Parker and Sassoon novels to my reading list. Thanks for the recommendations! I've really enjoyed hearing everyone's angle on the "memoir as fiction"...it's brought up a lot of wonderful discussions. Your description also made me think of how "Just Another Day in Vietnam" by Keith Nightingale wasn't written as a memoir, but in third person...to tell the broader story and give more information about the battle he actually fought in. From a storytelling standpoint, it makes a lot of sense, while also giving the author much more power to craft the bigger picture. Really appreciate your thoughts!
Sometimes i have such a hard time deciding what it is i’m going to read next. I finish a book and stare at my bookshelf for hours anxiously changing my mind every ten minutes about what im going to start. Thankyou for your review, ive had this in my TBR pile for a while and your fantastic review has helped me with my decision
I can relate to your shelf anxiety, haha! It's so stressful when you're about to commit weeks of your time to a book...the choices are endless and you want to pick something worth that investment. I'm so glad, though, that my review has helped you decide! I really think you'll enjoy this book. Beautiful, almost effortless writing with a powerful message. Enjoy, friend!
I have seen so many positive recommendations of this book and author. Books about the Vietnam War don't call to me so much as an Englishwoman but I think I should read this one. Your recommendation is powerful.
I think I agree with O'Brien that fiction can tell "the bigger truth" if it is done with integrity.
Hi Ros! I think if you read this book, you will remember it. It's stunningly visual. O'Brien is a master at what he does in this book.
Great review, Peggy!! I'm not a short story person but this is definitely my favourite collection. Another collection that might be worth your while is Good Scent from a Strange Mountain by Robert Olen Butler - examines Vietnamese culture in much more detail. As for memoirs, will echo what The Last Syllable said below and say that A Rumour of War by Phil Caputo and Chickenhawk by Bob Mason are about the best out there. Journalists' memoirs definitely Dispatches by Michael Herr and The Cat from Hue by John Laurence. But what you really need on your shelf is A Bright Shining Lie by Neil Sheehan!!! Just sayin'!!! Oh, and anything by the late, great Keith William Nolan who was writing Vietnam War histories when no one wanted to know....
Oh Laurence, there you go again....adding MORE books to my list! Martine will have words with you. Lol. Seriously, I'm looking up all of these, and I know I've been very remiss at not having read Neil Sheehan's book. I MUST remedy this!
One of my all time favourite books and so vital that it is fiction rather than memoir, in that he's trying to hold on to the fragmentary nature of memories and lost comrades, through the extended narrative and storytelling that fiction can provide. Our lives are not stories with arcs and narratives and certainly not lived that way, but a story can give our lives meaning. And I think O'Brien in particular is seeking to give meaning to his experience of the war and war as a whole. Even participants in war only get he view of a tiny portion of the battlefront where they're stationed. And as good as this is, I read "the Lake In The Woods" this year and it's even better, though perhaps more post-Vietnam rather than dedicatedly about it.
Marc, your reflections are definitely what I came away with from O'Brien's book. It still feels so "real" (however one defines that word) that it doesn't seem to make sense to care whether it happened or not. It felt real to the author to describe war in that way, so who am I to say it "doesn't count" or whatever? He was there. It felt, smelled, and tasted that way.
And oh boy, I had added "The Lake in the Woods" to my cart but wasn't going to buy it because I've bought so many lately...however, your recommendation that it's even better just broke my will. Haha. Buying it. Have to read it. Thanks, Marc! ;)
@@TheHistoryShelf My pleasure. Wish I was on commission! :-)
On the death of Curt Lemon: O'Brien has a soldier whistle (I think whistle) the tune "The Lemon Tree" by Trini Lopez. All of a sudden a soft bit of pop music entered the scene. Very eerie, very visceral in an auditory way, and darkly, very darkly humorous. Excellent review! Have you ever heard of "Paco's Story" by Larry Heinemann?
Yes, the song he mentions is just over the top. Thanks for liking the the review, I can only hope I did it justice. I have not heard of "Paco's Story" but will look that up, post haste!
Five minutes in, I was sold! Leland Ryken also believed that fiction could capture things of greater depth than non-fiction. Admittedly, even I wrestle with this proposition. I’ll be reading this one though. Thanks for a solid review!
I appreciate that, Chris, thanks! It’s an interesting argument that has passionate opinions on both sides, most definitely. O’Brien is just a crazy good writer, though, and I forgive him for hoodwinking me. 😉
@@TheHistoryShelf Well put! It speaks volumes when the quality of an artist's work can overcome our dispositions!
I’ve read this and In The Lake of the Woods by O’Brien and loved both. O’Brien is under appreciated
I am going to get In the Lake of the Woods next, Brian. I really enjoyed his style. This particular book really had an impact on me...would like to read more of his work most certainly. Thanks for letting me know your thoughts!
I love the way you talk about books!
Oh wow, Karen...thank you! I really appreciate your vote of confidence. So...should I keep doing these book review thingies? ;)
@@TheHistoryShelf Absolutely ;) I hear that reviews are the least watched videos on booktube, but they are my favorites!
I just ordered this and I'm looking forward to reading it. My husband served in the Navy during the Viet Nam War, but we were thankful that he never got stationed there. However he still had some very frightening experiences. That was a scary time no matter where you were stationed. I graduated with several young men who were sent to Viet Nam. Some returned, some didn't. I know several who still carry things even fifty years later. When I look at pictures from that time, they are just boys in those pictures.
Laverne, thank you for sharing your thoughts. No one in my family fought in the Vietnam War, but it's been my honor to have known a handful of people who did. They were boys and very young men, I agree. The Civil War especially lays claim to killing off a generation of young men in the springtime of their lives. War is nasty. War is always with us, it seems. Let me know what you think of the book once you've read it, ok? I'm curious to know your reaction.
I loved this book and had to keep reminding myself that it wasn't nonfiction. To me, fiction that feels that "real" is the best of fiction.
I agree, Audrey. Gosh, it was so visceral! So real!
I read quite a few Vietnam related books many years ago but I was put off reading this because it was fiction. While I read a lot of literary fiction, I prefer memoir and non-fiction when it comes to war, but perhaps I should change my mind. You may have already read the following but highly readable Vietnam era memoirs I've enjoyed include Philip Caputo's A Rumour of War, Michael Herr's Dispatches, In Pharaoh's Army by Tobias Wolff, Chickenhawk by Robert Mason. On the subject more generally, I loved the war memoirs of poets like Siegfried Sassoon's Memoirs of an Infantry Officer, Goodbye to All That by Robert Graves, and Alamein to Zem Zem by Keith Douglas. I'm currently reading Our Man on Richard Holbrooke which starts off with a junior state department officer's experience in the early period of the US involvement and is fascinating. Holbrooke's contemporary accounts were prescient to say the least.
Technically, Memoirs of an Infantry Officer is fiction. Certainly very autobiographical fiction (in bits of his actual memoir he references bits of the Sherston books), but not necessarily different from something like The Things They Carried in that regard.
Hey there! I appreciate your feedback and all of these wonderful recommendations. I actually just learned about your new channel from Jason in Byways in Bookland's shout out. I'll be excited to see more of your content!
Jen, on point and on top of it, always! Love it. :)
Each of us had unique experiences within a common cause. Much was common to all and much was unique to each of us. In sum, it is the story of Grunts doing what was asked by people who nothing about what they should do. The Wall is their monument to both personal dedication and leadership failure.
Colonel, your words to God's ears. I appreciate both your service to our nation and, even more, your friendship and trust.
@@TheHistoryShelf U R easy to trust.
It's actually a work of art :]
Interesting book. Looks good. It will be one that I will be on the lookout for. Since you are interested in the soldiers stories, have you ever checked out the Library of Congress and their interviews with the veterans?? Good summary of the book. You gotta love those books that keep you thinking.
Here is the link - www.loc.gov/vets/stories/ex-war-vietnam50.html
You're awesome, Bill! Really appreciate the link. I bet those interviews would take me down a rabbit hole...I'd need a rope to climb my way back from those archives. :)
Fooled me too. I was disappointed.