Religion and Politics - Full Debate
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- čas přidán 11. 06. 2024
- Raaye Saazi conducted the fifth public debate at The Blackhole Islamabad on 8th June, 2024. The motion read, “Pakistan’s future is doomed as long as its politics remains wedded with religion”. The proposition team was comprised of Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy, renowned physicist, author, and social commentator; Ms. Amber Rahim Shamsi, journalist and political commentator; and Barrister Waqqas Mir, advocate Supreme Court and a seasoned debater. The team opposing the motion comprised of Mr. Aneeq Ahmed, ex-caretaker federal minister of religious affairs and TV show host; Mr. Fahad Ali Kazmi, religious researcher, academic, and TV personality; and Mr. Sarmad Wali Khan, lecturer of political science and a seasoned debater. The event saw a full-house attendance and drew diverse demographics including students, young journalists, and people from multiple walks of life.
Raaye Saazi: Debating for the Future is a peacebuilding initiative, aiming to discourage the prevalent intolerance in Pakistan by making the culture of debate common in the public sphere. The project hopes to serve as a public avenue for building an alternative and people-centric narrative over issues of national importance.
Why Hoodbhoy want to play expert on everything, when he has no Knowledge of Hinduism/Sanatan Dharma
Not everything is Sanatan Dharma... Why are you guys becoming more and more like Muslims? Intolerant and defensive?
Sahi baat, Aaj ke baad asa nahi hoga
@@karolbagh3793 I agree. In fact was disappointed with his response on Hinduism /BJP May it was to appease the Pakistani Maulvi’s and many were sitting there that he’s not favoring Hinduism over Islam. However, he should have done more research on India, and Sanatism
Qaiser Ahmed Raja must have been invited to this debate... Then, it would be a remarkable one.
Qaiser ne Jo teer marne hain woh bhi sab ko pata perlay darjay ka jahil hae woh, lanti hae woh.
@@rudivanklugi3529😂😂😂😂 tabi to tere tod boy sasu nikl jata oska naam sunke open challenge diya debate ka
Qaiser Ahmad raja, Sahil Adeem, amaan Bhai and opponents Syed munzamil, shehzad gias, dr Taimoor .
So think about what the debate offffff❤
Sab ki fati padi hai khi blasphemy na lg jae.
😂😂😂😂
I really happy and appreciate the Black hole management to do such peaceful and critical topics with a good good manners, and I became happy to lesson such criticism in peaceful way. I believe ,we will be progressed by the help of such programmes because Knowledge is the outcome of bilateral criticism
Dr Hoodbhoy talk reality of this culture,,,Hypocrisy in this culture,,he did not talk against religion.
The other party Aniq & Co is turning the debate towards religion,,nobody talked against religion,,they did not talk with arguments typical Pakistani Culture,,hypocrisy
Why is the 3rd speaker shouting?
Big screams, but little wool.
His arguments have nothing to do with what was asked.
As a Muslim, I posit, that the opposition could not rebut rational or religious arguments.
No doubt Islam is a great religion but the way it is used in politics is not tantamount to the core of Islamic teachings.
Such debates are meant to be conducted respectfully and objectively, not subjectively or by setting personal scores.
I might be amiss; I am open to other notions.
Thank you for reading.
Swat waqaye par sub Muslims ko mubarakbaad ho. Alhamdulliah, hum nay apna deen nafaz kar diya, Aniq bhai ko Allah Shahdaat ko achi mout ata farmaye, Ameen. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Hoodboy always try equal sanatan = Islamic jahide but that is wrong
All extremism is wrong. Don't whitewash hindutva.
Qaiser Ahmed Raja saab ko bhi hona chaiye tha
😂😂😂
Exactly.
The religious side defending Religion with Pakistan seemed very childish, displaying offence and ego hurting attitude instead of talking about defending their case.
Dr Pervaiz Hoodhbhoy and his team were much more civilised, organised and well spoken.
@user-ox2dt1oq7n سارا جذباتی پن ایک سائیڈ پی رکھ کر امام غزالی کی احیا العلوم جلد دوم صفحہ نمبر ایک سو چار پبلشر مکتبہ مدینہ کراچی کا پڑھ لو پھر سنن ابو داود کو آرام سے پڑھ لو شروع سے آخر تک . پھر آ کر کمنٹ کرو کہ اصل اسلام پہ تم خود بھی عمل کر سکتے ہو یا ایویں جوش و جذبے میں ڈوب کے نعرے مارنے سے کام چلانا ہے
Those pro religion- politics were totally disconnected with the actual topic.
Begharit siyasitdaano orr army autoimmune disease ka saara mlba Deen or molvi pr daalna bht aasaan hai 😂😂 Pakistan Naam ka islaami mulk hai qanoon saara ungrezo Yani Maghreb ka hai lekin phir bhi mulk traqi kio nhi kr rha vaja ??? isslia ka hm khud ghalt hai mehnat nhi krtai shortcut dhoondtai hai apnai mulk ka vasail ghlt logo ka haatho mei dekr Deen pr tnz kio ??iss baar education pr budget mei kitnai Arab rs mukhts 50 arb orr benazir income support vaalo ka Lia Yani bhikaario ka Lia 526 arb kia isska molvi zimadaar hai kia ussna kha ka taleem pr km paisai lgoi ya Quran mei likha hai aap khud corrupt ho aapki universities mei 50000 girls ki p** videos niklti kia isska bhi molvi zimadaar hai 😊 Iss mei Islam ka kia qasoor hai Islam to hmaarai mulk mei ha hi nhi 😢to phir aap Pakistani siast ko din e Islam ka saath kio relate kr rhai hai aapko sharm aani chahiai doctor lifebuoy Sahab 😂😂doctor Sahab mei aap sa poochta hoo ka aajtk koi molvi prime minister ya supreme court ka judge bna ?? obviously nhi then how you can say that Pakistan ko Islam sa khtra hai 🤣danger to Pakistan ko aapka corrupt siyasitdaano sa ha jo aapki universities ka products hai madrasso ka nhi then aap universities orr siyasitdaano ko criticize krna chahiai deen ko kio criticize krtai hai aapki debate ka topic hona chahiai tha syast orr syadaano ka gd jorr Pakistan ka tareek future hahaha 😂
Even the most educated Pakistanis cannot question this non sensical arabic ideology 😂
Begharit siyasitdaano orr army autoimmune disease ka saara mlba Deen or molvi pr daalna bht aasaan hai 😂😂 Pakistan Naam ka islaami mulk hai qanoon saara ungrezo Yani Maghreb ka hai lekin phir bhi mulk traqi kio nhi kr rha vaja ??? isslia ka hm khud ghalt hai mehnat nhi krtai shortcut dhoondtai hai apnai mulk ka vasail ghlt logo ka haatho mei dekr Deen pr tnz kio ??iss baar education pr budget mei kitnai Arab rs mukhts 50 arb orr benazir income support vaalo ka Lia Yani bhikaario ka Lia 526 arb kia isska molvi zimadaar hai kia ussna kha ka taleem pr km paisai lgoi ya Quran mei likha hai aap khud corrupt ho aapki universities mei 50000 girls ki p** videos niklti kia isska bhi molvi zimadaar hai 😊 Iss mei Islam ka kia qasoor hai Islam to hmaarai mulk mei ha hi nhi 😢to phir aap Pakistani siast ko din e Islam ka saath kio relate kr rhai hai aapko sharm aani chahiai doctor lifebuoy Sahab 😂😂doctor Sahab mei aap sa poochta hoo ka aajtk koi molvi prime minister ya supreme court ka judge bna ?? obviously nhi then how you can say that Pakistan ko Islam sa khtra hai 🤣danger to Pakistan ko aapka corrupt siyasitdaano sa ha jo aapki universities ka products hai madrasso ka nhi then aap universities orr siyasitdaano ko criticize krna chahiai deen ko kio criticize krtai hai aapki debate ka topic hona chahiai tha syast orr syadaano ka gd jorr Pakistan ka tareek future hahaha 😂
Mufti yaseer live
I like the fact that we have started debating in a civilised manner
Begharit siyasitdaano orr army autoimmune disease ka saara mlba Deen or molvi pr daalna bht aasaan hai 😂😂 Pakistan Naam ka islaami mulk hai qanoon saara ungrezo Yani Maghreb ka hai lekin phir bhi mulk traqi kio nhi kr rha vaja ??? isslia ka hm khud ghalt hai mehnat nhi krtai shortcut dhoondtai hai apnai mulk ka vasail ghlt logo ka haatho mei dekr Deen pr tnz kio ??iss baar education pr budget mei kitnai Arab rs mukhts 50 arb orr benazir income support vaalo ka Lia Yani bhikaario ka Lia 526 arb kia isska molvi zimadaar hai kia ussna kha ka taleem pr km paisai lgoi ya Quran mei likha hai aap khud corrupt ho aapki universities mei 50000 girls ki p** videos niklti kia isska bhi molvi zimadaar hai 😊 Iss mei Islam ka kia qasoor hai Islam to hmaarai mulk mei ha hi nhi 😢to phir aap Pakistani siast ko din e Islam ka saath kio relate kr rhai hai aapko sharm aani chahiai doctor lifebuoy Sahab 😂😂doctor Sahab mei aap sa poochta hoo ka aajtk koi molvi prime minister ya supreme court ka judge bna ?? obviously nhi then how you can say that Pakistan ko Islam sa khtra hai 🤣danger to Pakistan ko aapka corrupt siyasitdaano sa ha jo aapki universities ka products hai madrasso ka nhi then aap universities orr siyasitdaano ko criticize krna chahiai deen ko kio criticize krtai hai aapki debate ka topic hona chahiai tha syast orr syadaano ka gd jorr Pakistan ka tareek future hahaha 😂
The love of Mr. Aneeq Ahmed for Pakistan is very appreciated, keep fucking it.
WTH are u saying????
Begharit siyasitdaano orr army autoimmune disease ka saara mlba Deen or molvi pr daalna bht aasaan hai 😂😂 Pakistan Naam ka islaami mulk hai qanoon saara ungrezo Yani Maghreb ka hai lekin phir bhi mulk traqi kio nhi kr rha vaja ??? isslia ka hm khud ghalt hai mehnat nhi krtai shortcut dhoondtai hai apnai mulk ka vasail ghlt logo ka haatho mei dekr Deen pr tnz kio ??iss baar education pr budget mei kitnai Arab rs mukhts 50 arb orr benazir income support vaalo ka Lia Yani bhikaario ka Lia 526 arb kia isska molvi zimadaar hai kia ussna kha ka taleem pr km paisai lgoi ya Quran mei likha hai aap khud corrupt ho aapki universities mei 50000 girls ki p** videos niklti kia isska bhi molvi zimadaar hai 😊 Iss mei Islam ka kia qasoor hai Islam to hmaarai mulk mei ha hi nhi 😢to phir aap Pakistani siast ko din e Islam ka saath kio relate kr rhai hai aapko sharm aani chahiai doctor lifebuoy Sahab 😂😂doctor Sahab mei aap sa poochta hoo ka aajtk koi molvi prime minister ya supreme court ka judge bna ?? obviously nhi then how you can say that Pakistan ko Islam sa khtra hai 🤣danger to Pakistan ko aapka corrupt siyasitdaano sa ha jo aapki universities ka products hai madrasso ka nhi then aap universities orr siyasitdaano ko criticize krna chahiai deen ko kio criticize krtai hai aapki debate ka topic hona chahiai tha syast orr syadaano ka gd jorr Pakistan ka tareek future hahaha 😂
ڈاکٹر پرویز صاحب سے ہاتھ جوڑ کر التماس یے کہ اپ سچے انسان ہیں اور بیترین مسلمان ہیں ،
پرویز بھائی بھینسوں کے اگے بین بجانے سے گریز کریں
اگر ترقی کرنا ہے تو پھر مزہب کو سیاست سے الگ کرنا ہوگا۔۔
You need to study bro. You're taking example of Church vs State. There's no such thing as Masjid vs State in Islam, and to understand it you have to study islamic ideology before blindly following the West.
Audiences was clearly biased
That's unfair
The third speaker accepted the true fact that Islam was spread with the help of sword by questioning the use of mortars by whom?
جب مقرر کی آواز بلند ہونے لگے تو بس سمجھ لیجئے اب عقل اور دلیل نا پید ہے۔
46:50 the way this speaker got Hoodbhoy's side out of headlock, absolutely brilliant.
Amazing this guy Hoodbhoy in the very first minute brings India in his talk. Hoodbhoy Bhai: confine yourself to Pakistan.
When you debate on Islam your opponent should be an expert Ex-Muslim so that he can debunk you from the holy book 📚.
Non Experts on both sides is not fair to the Audience
You should invite persons like Qaisar Ahmad raja Sahib. Those are the people who know how to deal with such situations and how to do the debates.
Thanks to people like Qaiser Ahmad raja these secular level agruments really dont sound intellectual but very surface level. Issue of pakistan is the power structure thats causing a hinderence jn the properity in my opinion not Islam. Thankyou QAS❤
After watching whole video I am really missing Qasir Ahmad Raja.
I see some people complaining about the quality of speakers but I believe it is a very good start. Debates such as this are not that common in Pakistan and I am certain that with the passage of time the quality of these debates will certainly improve.
as a student of debating , the first fundamental that our debate coaches teaches us is to fight as a team. In this debate, I cannot see both the teams playing as a team. there case was shifting here and there, no one was on the same page, hoodboy talks about how science and islam contradicts each other, Ms shamsi talks about women rights and the third speaker presents the case of curropt politicians. the debate was not structrally correct. But the good thing is the rising of debating culture in pakistan which is amazing.
Prvaiz hood sahib Islam aap ki field Nahi apni Kam ilmi ki waja se logon KO gumrah na karien
Now I'm hopeful that we are going to the right direction...
It's very good that educated people are now in reasonable debate...
Pakistan Zinda Bad
This debate is 1000 times better than the debates we saw in talkshows. These types of debates should have.
The country that created on the basis of a religion is now discussing the cause & effect of religion in politics and democracy 😂😂😂
Jinna's dream is under threat..
India was to be a secular state, what is happening now?
laughing reacts
Religion is a personal matter...11 august 1947 Quaid's speech
I am utterly disappointed by the opposition speakers. They resorted to personal attacks, self-contradictory arguments, and hate speech. They could have presented their arguments in civilized and academic manner, which unfortunately they didn't.
No.
thanks to the debate participants, after a long time such an excellent and peacefull dialog/debate occured
thanks, this talk lead us to open new thinking ways in excellent work
I am missing Qasir Ahmad Raja . He is that shark who has the ability to eat all the seculars
There should be many debates like this.
Zindabad Amber Shamsi… well structured and focused 🎉
They are showing having Very authentic information to present, I think they know very little about the history, They are presenting all illiterate society or extremist Ideology. Christian Gave vote for the Pakistan, Because Qaide Azam did not say that he wants an Islamic Republic of Pakistan. A country where every citizen will have equal rights. It was the later decided by the politicians, to call it Islamic republic of Pakistan.
The Vedas are ancient texts that contain timeless wisdom and insights. While some aspects may be rooted in the context of their time, many teachings about ethics, spirituality, and human nature remain relevant. It's essential to interpret these texts thoughtfully, considering both their historical context and modern values, to draw meaningful guidance for today's world.
Great debate! Thanks for uploading
It would have been more interesting to have Qaisar Ahmed Raja on the panel.
Is there a single Muslim on this planet who follows every description given in Quran and Hadith.
No not a single
😂😂😂😂
Have you followed every single advice your parents gave you? Certainly not, we are human and we make mistakes, learn from it and move forward. If every Muslim were to follow 100% then what is the need of Jahannam? It makes perfect sense if you are open to listen to.
Sarmad Wali Khan made a point and very good one but was in between the people who don't know what history can manage to our understanding of present times.
His conclusions were precise and I enjoyed him of all the speakers. Well versed guy knowing what he's talking about.
Where is question answer session of this debate???
Happy to see the culture of healthy debates. Keep it up!
What an absolute shame. Whenever debates of this nature happen it's quite clear that one side is trying to make nuanced reasonable points and the other side is always trying to grandstand. Fahad Ali Kazmi in particular should be ashamed at his behaviour during the opening statement. If you have the emotional composure of a seven year old, don't get on stage with adults.
Nuance doesn’t equal accuracy
Brilliant platform…..atlast debate culture is reviving…….
Debate is not cross debate. There is no answer question session. The audience shown is shown baised. Speakers are not very well known. Debate should be between Experts of the field with strong qualification in the fields. Poor debate. Just wastage of time. Debate should be answered with evidences.
Qaisar Ahmed Raja, Sahil Adeem V Syed Muzamil, Shahzad Ghias
The last person from secular side presented strong arguments and from religious side syed kazmi was better in his arguments and rebuttal.
Lokking forward to see more such debates.
This debate was not about religion it was about how to run the system don't distract aniq sahib
It was about reilgion the point was that the system is not running because religion is invovled but everybody knows why the system is not running. It is not the fault of religion. Our Constitution is according to our religion just need to implement it.
@@rehansatti6024 in every Muslim life first come Quran Majeed then come Constitution if you don't practice your daily life according to Quran Majeed what you are going to get from constitution? The other thing is that if people of different faith and sects live in one place don't run the state with your school of thoughts or religion every one wants to make their own mosque. Who is going to stop the storm of fatwas against each others, religion is a personal thing it is peaceful and beautiful when you treat everyone with respect and dignity and don't bring out your dagger to cut off others throat.
Very fantastic and thought provoking debate
۷۶ سال مذہب استعمال کیا ، اگلے ۷۶ سال دین کو استعمال کرکے دیکھ لو تا کہ کوئی بہتری ہوسکے ۔
Both Dr Parveez and Anis Shb are my real heroes. I like his debate and arguments. The way they presented their case was heart touching and replete with wisdom.
Please do get this debate arranged. We come to learn a lot.
The audience is not fair because they clap when the Hoodboy Party makes arguments against another party, but they neither clap nor applaud when the opposite party makes a strong argument against them, thereby favoring one side.
They are all brainwashed
Are you the same as me who has wasted his time watching this video?
Enlightening discourse.
Feel sorry for the bespectacled girl in green dress.
All through she was clapping for Islamists , but didn’t vote neither for or against the religion mixing with politics.
It’s clear though that the youngsters in Pakistan are dissatisfied with Islam. Good sign.
We need such debates
salam. can i v contact of Sarmad Wali Khan
Baised .
Misinterpretation regarding History of islamic phase
What a beautiful and fruitful discussion
Argument: West has mental health issues and existential crises.
Hoodboy's response: If the West has these issues, why does every Pakistani want to go there.
Audience: Clapping.
What a joke. I was expecting something good from Hoodboy. I don't know why the audience clapped at his response.
He doesn't have a god damn answer , bcoz they are blinded by the west !
Audience clap for everything, even if you start speaking about killing stories, the Audience will start clapping.
Argument to what extent? Does such argumentation not stop at certain points?
It looks Like that the topic of this discussion was Not shared with the oposing Panel.
Physics professors talks about metaphysical realities than these silly statements will come about
Dr Pervez should have by now understood the quality of the so called intellectuals.
I am all for a Secular Pakistan, but in this debate most sane voice who added value to the debate is Sarmad Wali Khan. I disagree to his content at various points though, but his conduct remained excellent and required for debate. Well done! Pakistan needs more debates like these. ❤
Kindly muja be bulaye debate pa. Ma b ana chata ho
Why Ali is so emotional? This is directionless discussion. The sole purpose of the debate is to make his/her opponent speechless.
USA in its constitution separated religion and state. It is the standard bearer in the world political systems.
European specifically France took 200yrs to get rid of religion,catholic oppression from its politics.
...Prof.Dr.Nasir Fazal gold medalist Cambridge USA.
آخر میں ووٹنگ دیکھ کر یقین ہو گیا کہ زیادہ تعداد ناکام ہونے والوں کی ہی ہو گی اللہ تعالیٰ کے ہاں
Many new things found to learn.
I consider myself a religious person in fact I am always in mode of prosletyzing my religion.
I’m however taken aback by shallow and emotional commentary in defending Islam. Was it be design. If not, please next time try to bring a more competent therefore less emotional defender of Islam. It does not mean the contractions had any better demonstration 😊.
Dr. Hoodboy and Mam amber seemed weak and deviated in presenting their narratives, while Waqas Meer saahb truly and simply showcased his narrative and that's where the actual debate started, but unfortunately no one answered his question and rather misinterpreted his simple narrative that "Whom to trust of and where to find those people to establish Islam in its true essence" ?. Infact the debate concluded without addressing the core narratives of secularism panel, because the actual debate started when it was about to culminate.
Asal m ye jo Godless log hotay hain in se religion ki restrictions practice ni hoti to apni in capacity ko defend krne k liay they start blaming the religion n the clerics etc
The topic was the only thing that left untouched.
Very depth.... consciousness.
Ye larka itna cheekh q raha hai
Vo bhul gaya ki siddat argument me honi chahiye na ki aawaz mai. 😅😅😅
dr qaiser Ahmed Raja should be here
My vote for Islam!!!!
Fahad sb is fearless in the face of so called liberal secularism
We as Muslims don’t get to pick and choose. It’s God’s will and iwe are bound by it’s tenents and obligations no matter how inconvenient they may be to us
Bravo Fahd Sb
All the three are criticizing the West and the fun is that all three are dressed up in western style
مذہب کا معاملہ اللہ تعالٰی اور انسان کے درمیان ہے اور دنیا کی کسی حکومت کو یہ حق حاصل نہیں کہ اس میں مداخلت کرے۔ جن جن ممالک میں اس اصول کو اپنایا گیا وہاں کے حالات دیکھ لیں اور جن ممالک نے مذہب کو سیاست اور امور مملکت کو اکٹھا کیا وہاں کے حالات دیکھ لیں۔آپ کو سمجھ آجائے گی۔
I am listening to Aneeq sir for the first time. And his evidences sounds more convincing.
Islam is not just religion it is political ideology
Politics should be separated from religion 🙏🙏🙏
Courageous and bold debate .
The second speaker from the pro-religion side really nailed it. 💯
Throughout the debate, we can clearly see that Team 1, or the secular team, has refrained from criticizing Islam due to the presence of stringent blasphemy laws in Pakistan. I can understand their fear.
Sadly true
When you lack compelling arguments, attempt to captivate your audience with eloquent English language; in our post-colonial society, this often proves effective(The lady she spoke in Englush Language). Many participants strayed from the central debate and demonstrated a superficial grasp of the subject. The initial speaker opposing the topic astutely challenged the use of the term 'Maddhab' instead of 'Deen.' The final speaker opposing the motion offered profound insights into the issue.
A fruitful debate .
Debate is fine but I have noticed one thing that the team is speaking for the religion, their opening argument is all similar and identical that 'we thought that we are going to have a very educated and intellectual and deep thought debate but unfortunately the opponent team is presenting very very simple point silly points and presenting a very Shallow debate'. So I think they are all speaking according to the strategy like just downplay the opponents argument with this statement and try to show that what you are saying is very silly. They said that the Hood Boy Team should have presented better, constructive examples where as they themselves are only talking about the past and what they are saying is not matching to the present reality and I am very happy the way the lady journalist and the lawyer presented their arguments. They were so real their arguments are talking about the real issues of today's world so very nice very happy to hear about it. It is always a delight to listen to an active and alive debate session, very nice well done!
pervaiz hoodbhoy sab ka iss audience mein wohi haal hai jo ek muhawaray mein bola jaata tha "Andho mein kaana Raja"
You should have invited ghamidi sahab via video link in this debate.
Qaiser Ahmed Raja ko es pannel me Hona chaiye ta.........
Haven't watched all of it...but the gentleman at 57 minutes seems to be worth his salt..anyone knows his full name so I could look him up?
Nxt time Session should be more than 2 hours..please
Very good debate ....
Is traha ke debat hone chaye