The Real Story Behind the Harden-Simmons Trade With Zach Lowe | The Bill Simmons Podcast
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- čas přidán 24. 02. 2022
- The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by ESPN’s Zach Lowe to discuss the inside story of the James Harden-Ben Simmons trade, including Joel Embiid’s initial thoughts, Harden’s relationship with Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving, and more.
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Sending good vibes to the Lowe family after your loss
What happened?
@@pedroernesto6941 Whole family is in Ukraine. 🙏
@@theDanDeleon His family is in Croatia - he lost his mother a few weeks ago
@@theDanDeleon lol bro shut up
@@TBoneSports 😂 had to my dude. Haha
Simmons and Lowe. Yes, please.
Don’t be a pervert, Vincent! Geez
Harden was open to being traded to Philly or BK. I think at the time both options were appealing to him but the Rockets refused to deal with Morey. I do agree tho that if Kyrie was playing and the distractions were limited Harden wants a chip and would have stayed and played at a high level to try to get one.
All he said were all rumors not one credible evidence that embiid wanted beal over harden. It’s possible he wanted either which does not mean beal first. Also just bc harden pushed brooklyn to sign him does not mean philly is not his 1st choice
Love how he reported these as if they were facts
@@theach84 I know, I thought he had inside sources, but then he revealed that it was just theory-crafting. WTF? Don't waste Zach Lowe's time! :D
Harden had his own team in Houston. I think he's tired of going at it alone. That's why he went to Brooklyn. Problem was, KD injured and Kyrie choosing to not play, Harden is alone again. I think he has no problem being a duo with Joel as long as he wins games and doesn't have a super high usage rating.
To me, this is the best-case scenario from Philly's POV. The playoffs will bear everything out.
Harden was never alone in Houston he chose play a loner style.Harden played with 3 future hall of famers,some of the best role players in the league,2 really good coaches and had a GM willing to pay the cost for the win right now moment.Harden failed everytime mostly cuz the offense was too predictable,his turnovers came at the worse of times and his half ass effort on defense made his other teammates jobs much more harder
@@mxhughes you are somewhat right but a lot of that falls on coaching. D'antoni runs a very simple offense and they used to run pick and rolls but then he realised that harden was good enough that he didnt even need a pick he could just iso his man and get an efficient shot or pass. The problem is that this style of play is exhausting and very predictable in the playoffs i dont think thats all on harden.
@@brianking5875 I agree d'antoni is very overrated and I never liked the fit cuz I knew what was gone happen you got a coach who don't emphasize defense and you got a star player who don't wanna play defense and we seen the results of it.D'antoni not a player coach but he's not a hard nose coach either only time he gets upset is when the defense gives up easy points ironically enough
Kyrie was forced not to play
On the philly 1st choice thing. Remember Simmons was looking for houses in Houston etc. That was from Simmons too.
False...Morey tried to trade Ben before any of this and likely talked with Harden about it beforehand about getting out of Houston, but they refused to deal with Morey in 2019/2020
@@kudabeen False how. that exactly my point.tried to trade ben to houston a season ago o(or 2 ago) for harden. hardens choice was philly, nets jumped in after........part of ben angst against the sixers
Brooklyn really traded Jarrett Allen instead of DAJ cause he was Durant and Irving’s “guy” only to trade a year later to Detroit ? Yes the success is hidden in the details.
i laugh every time i think of how fast they scrubbed their KD kyrie DJ big 3 marketing
Because cleveland weren’t gonna accept a trade with DJ included
Also everyone seems to forget that 76ers were trying to get Harden for Simmons 15 months ago the 76ers told SImmons back then to pack his bags.
Philly ain't the same situation for Harden as the Nets lol Sixers have needed a bonafide star to put next to Embiid... and Sixer fans will 100% embrace Harden too
Yea. We already have
i think it was pretty hard for Harden to go from a team that was completely built to make him look like a superhero to a team where he is potentially the third option
Not really true. Harden seemed totally fine last season with being the third option just passing the ball racking up assists as long as it got him a championship. He started hating kyrie this season because kyrie refused to play this season cuz he wasn't vaccinated. That meant harden had to carry the load while also having a lingering hamstring issue. Then when KD got hurt, that just made things even harder for harden. It's ironic cuz harden left houston cuz he was tired of carrying them to the playoffs just to choke and lose. So he joins up with KD and kyrie thinking he doesn't have to carry anymore and its an easy ring. But in reality he became the number one option again when kyrie refused to play and KD got injured. Lol harden's luck just sucks. I bet things will turn out bad somehow in philly as well.
@@okdokgg857 That's EXACTLY what I've saying since he got traded there last season bro.He thought he was gonna go to Brooklyn and piggyback off Durant n Irving cuz they honestly didn't need him so he assumed he would just get a good 20 n 9.Once shit fell apart with kyrie not playing,kd being hurt and the team wasn't as good as last year dude hit the reset button.If Philly was his first option like he claims kd woulda never cosigned him going there so the fact dude can lie how he does shows how fake he is
@@okdokgg857 And I agree with the Philly part too he'll fuck up that situation also.I've never seen a player fail as much and as bad as Harden does so many times in the playoffs and ppl still act like he's still better than what the end results are.
@@mxhughes yea and I have a feeling it's gonna be like harden and chris paul, where chris got injured in the playoffs and harden was forced to carry but he couldn't. I have a feeling embiid either gets injured during the playoffs, or he just doesn't play well for some reason and its up to harden to perform like a superstar and he comes up short. That's been the story of his whole career pretty much
The number of presumptions and presuppositions required for the entire situation to unfold just like BS describes it, is quite ridiculous. Sounds like a bag of rumors, gossip, and storytelling.
+
Its hilarious
Beal would've been a great fit, but the Sixers still would've needed a veteran point.
love listening to these legends
Great stuff gentlemen
Maybe he wanted to go to Philly but then that got shot down rather quickly due to Darryl Morey's exit...so he moved on to Brooklyn
Idrc what any reporting now says, I remember at the time thinking Brooklyn didn't really make sense and Philly was a perfect fit, and there was basically a 2 way race, Philly being the better fit and Brooklyn being prepared to potentially offer more. I don't recall anything about him preferring to go to Brooklyn. That's why none of this surprised me. Never seemed like Brooklyn was a good fit and I don't blame him for wanting out of there.
Bill tryna slow burn the sixers so the they turn on each other. Wild
Great thoughts
I don’t believe embiid was pushing for beal over harden bc of fit. Maybe he was pushing bc he didn’t think they could swing harden but beal is not a better fit
Yea. Glad Embiid's not the GM.
I think Harden wanted to leave because Kyrie's situation combined with all the Injuries, Brooklyn just never really got going...Has nothing to do with WANTING his own team.
Philly will embrace Embiid and Harden's team..a dynamic duo..We don't think like other cities..Sixers fans know basketball...They LOVE JAMES HARDEN...We love Embiid too.
A ball-handling guard and a dominant big is a great fit. Each is good at different things. Build the team well around them.
But harden is not KD, there situations were different. Not a reasonable comparison.
boy... less than a minute and these guys are putting Beal and Harden at the same level (and also saying that Beal would fit better with Embiid). Thanks for saving 8+ minutes of my life
Pretty sure kyrie said to the media at some point this season "I treat playing basketball like a 9-5 job". If I'm chasing a ring and I hear that from one of the best players on my team, I'd be pissed too lol.
I would get rid of that guy immediately, because that is locker room cancer. Bad if he pisses off his teammates, worse if his attitude spreads.
love you bill but you made up the beal take
Kyrie would have found another way to mess up the team if he had come back full time. Hes a wrench in team chemistry.
Daryl Morey confirmed that Harden’s first choice was Philly, and he didn’t sound like he was BSing.
I am sure BS’s source at the Nets heard different, but the timeline of that move was a long drawn out one so it is hard to rule out that Philly was his initial choice.
He’s tryna cause drama in Philly lol
I'm sure from Morey standpoint he wanted Harden from the beginning and Harden was somewhat interested but the way the nets played last year with kyrie n kd before he got there was great so I'm sure he favored that situation way more then philly so Morey full of shit cuz if Durant knew Harden was serious about being in philly he woulda told Brooklyn stay away from him
Simple explanation - he wanted to join the Sixers the first time. We've seen plenty of reporting even this last cycle where it where it was said Harden's down with the Nets and, based on how Morey has alluded to about what happened the first time, I don't think it was Harden's choice like what was reported then. As far as the trade demand, Harden knew he wasn't going to sign the extension there and he probably felt like joining the Sixers now was a better chance to win this year's title.
Harden is one of the greatest offensive players in the history of the league.. Any team he joins, should be his team. He was more bought into the Nets thing than Kyrie and KD, but he got the short end of the stick and that's why the nets won't win a championship. Ben Simmons is not gonna be able to do what Harden did
Francis.....You stole my bike!
Harden carried the Nets. Look at record when he played and didn’t play.
Yup harden was in mvp conversation last season and nets are top 1 before durant got injured without the help of half man half season
Beal and Embied have the same trainer and have been working a Drew for years
Harden left Houston bc he didn’t want it to be “his team” he thought he’d have help at BK and it turned out to be him carrying the torch alone. Came to Philly bc all he’s gotta do is help. So it’s NOT his team essentially.
He didn't want to play with injury john wall and a rebuilding team
No other channel on CZcams litters their content with more commercials than Bill Simmons & The Ringer ainec
Disagreed, harden wanted philly all along. Houston didnt even take jarrett allen knowing an extension was looming. Hou were willing to take a hit on the trade if morey never got harden, they took no money back hence oladip and they kept their own pick in the next draft which was jalen green. After that, harden went to option 2.
Bill Simmons can't ever control his lowkey Philly hate, no matter how much he tries to hide it.
Right, lifetime Celtics homer poking holes in a franchise altering trade for the Sixers that he has had incorrect takes on all along. Whoops.
Yo Bill, topic: Kareem’s usage rate vs. Lebron’s usage rate. Are franchises/players manufacturing “greatness” with high usage rates. You know how in boxing when promoters feed their fighters a bunch of easy fights? It’s akin to feeding your basketball player an absurd usage rate. But the beautiful thing about it all is that beautiful team basketball fucks vacuum ball up in the playoffs, (for the most part.)
Bill loves the gossip more than actually watching the games
Did Simmons have better takes in the past? To get to where he is now? Or good takes not necessary to go from columnist to rich rich? 🙄
They can still get Beal if they trade maxey thybulle Harris & picks
What if Kyrie chose NOT to get vaccinated to avoid playing with Harden? Using the whole anti-vax stance as an excuse but low key hated Harden from day one? You can come up with conspiracies all day with Kyrie...lol
Joel will see who the real Harden is when things don’t go well. The difference between Harden and Ben is Harden will make it so bad and will fire back at Joel when things go south.
Harden joined Joel team just like he did at Nets which was KD and Kyrie’s team. If he thinks it will be his team because Morey is there, watch how Joel will react.
Exactly imo the sixers traded one headache for another.Ben n Harden have similar personalities both are publicly quiet around media but are flashy in their personal lives and have alot of drama queen in them behind the scenes.They both a egotistical and will implode a team when shit don't go their way.Unfortunately for Philly Morey is a Harden fanatic and is banking his gm career on one overrated nba star
If his first choice was Brooklyn, why was I hearing he wants to come to the Sixers. That is the first team I heard and heard that for a few days before I then heard he has a short list of teams. It was then Brooklyn and Philly but I heard Philly before I ever heard about Brooklyn. I also heard the Rockets didn't want to do business with Morey which would make sense that they didn't. I am not going to finish watching this podcast because less than 3 minutes in and you are already saying things that don't make sense because I know I heard Philly before I ever heard about Brooklyn.
KD actively tried shopping Harden when James was not 100%, Harden found out about it and decided to leave.
Idk if you can say the nets were a "KD and kyrie team" lol I mean damn neither of em even really played during the season they got signed and they accomplished nothing. Then the following year they get harden mid season...ultimately KD and kyrie did nothing for the nets before harden got there. It's nothing like steph and the warriors, who were already champs before KD. Now Zach is definitely onto something with kyrie being unvaxed. It was well reported that harden was on kyries ass to get vaxed especially in the middle of the season a week or so after KD got hurt. Harden even said "imma vaccinate him myself" and I'm betting kyrie was leading on harden about getting the vax at some point but ultimately said never. And when it was clear that kyrie wouldn't get vaxxed, harden peaced out. Can't blame him.
Really don't like how he said kyrie won't play if he's not vac, he wanted to play but ur God the commissioner wouldn't let him
Well Philly was probably his first choice. Fertitta didn’t want to trade harden to Philly cause of Daryl Morey so they traded him to brooklyn
I think believing the Nets would be on 65-win pace right now is ridiculous.
Piece 2 - Houston was not trading harden to Philly who just brought Morey on. Everyone knew that
They don't listen to Philly sports radio. Guys like Lowe and Simmons need to do their due diligence. Harden has the number selling jersey since the deadline. Philly is singing this man's praises obviously mostly to spite Simmons. His situation in Philly is leagues better than what was going on in Brooklyn.
1) jersey sales? Philly fans? We know those fans will turn on anyone in a heartbeat.
2) Once the covid mandates are lifted, they would be close to all three being healthy and on the court. The statistical odds of them winning in that situation were high.
3) I like him in Philly and think it’s better for him, but more so for the reasons mentioned in the video.
@@ObiAmajoyiSrMD Look up the sales for yourself. Harden is coming into a situation as the number two option Philly has wanted for the last 4 years. Anything on offense in the halfcourt that he brings Philly fans are going to be behind. Don't agree to disagree.
@@Heartbrayk. 1) no one is agreeing or disagreeing with you about jersey sales. The point is that it’s irrelevant and utterly ridiculous to think that jersey sales are a motivating factor to go to a team or stay with a team - or matter to guys if that caliber at all.
2) Philly fans will be happy with you and supportive - until they’re not. They’re fickle fans. Same fans that boo Embiid and the team whenever they’re on a bad stretch or a losing streak.
3) You have no point to make when you’re talking about JERSEY SALES. Especially After all-star break and after the trade deadline, when he’s the biggest named player traded. Jersey sales. 🤦🏾♂️
How does Bill Simmons know who Meatball is? Lol
Bill continues his hate fest of all things philly
Does Zach Lowe cover the NBA or something? He seems like a big NBA fan.
Maybe Lebron realized Miami would always be Wade county
KD and kyrie already had championships. It's gotta be insulting for Harden bc from everything I read he's all about that ring yes like been there done that with MVPs ect, and kyrie straight don't give af. Not even vaccine stuff he clearly doesn't have an intense passion for the game the hunger isn't there
Harden Simmons should have happened when Harden originally requested the trade.
Not sure if I trust Bill Simmons the reporter.
When did Zach turn into Gru?
KD has the two least respected rings/FMVPs in the history of the league
If harden comes here thinking it’s his team the writing for failure is alrdy on the wall
Eh, kind of a dumb point by Lowe. When Lebron went to Miami it was Lebron’s team. It wasn’t DWades team anymore.
I think the first year it was a struggle, but then Lebron was Lebron, and took over.
If he ( KD ) truly felt that way about the superteam part then why in the hell did he go to the Warriors in the first place? What in the hell did he think was going to happen? 🤔🤦🏾♂️
To get an easy ring 👌
embiid wants beal becoz they share the same trainer
I miss 10th grade
This is a bad take by Bill simmons. Why does he think james harden is dumb enough to want to go to philly and in order to have his own team? He knew it wasnt he just wants to win a chip and he knew it wasnt going to happen in bk. Kyrie half time player, durant always hurt, nash cant coach plus the fan base is knockoff knick fans, no wonder Harden wants to be a sixer. I believe him when he said he wanted to go to philly from the jump.
Im a sixers fan and i remember all the reports saying a trade was all but in the works with Philadelphia but houston wanted a ridiculous package because they didnt want to deal with morey. In short they wasnt going to the deal unless morey was ok with getting totally fleeced ie maxey, thybulle, picks, plus ben and someone else for harden. Houston then takes much less, which was real dumb because (sixers) ended up with harden anyway for peanuts. Houston in the end really lost the most because they couldve had an all star picks plus thybulle but only got a pick from the nets because of the stubborn owner.
Simmons really hates Harden
Morey babies Harden. Harden was always going to Philly. Brooklyn was only because the Houston owner turned down any dealings with Morey...
KD should have just come to Knicks without Kyrie. It would have all worked out better.
Or KD should have just gone to Nets without Kyrie. Harden would have stayed and they would have been the favorites.
Harden hates Kyrie, he even practically said it in his introductory press conference with the Sixers.
What self respecting man doesn’t hate Kyrie?
@@imax014 hate is a strong word, but I do find him distasteful and immature.
@@dearmas9068 How is he immature?
@@tonyschimmoeller he has weird egotistical hissy fits when he isnt the center of attention, and then again when he is.
Most NBA players have big egos, but Kyrie is one of a few that are both whiney, arrogant, and rude to people publically because they had the audacity to do anything other than praise him.
@@dearmas9068 any specific examples?
Harden was the only guy play, and not getting recognition for it
I like bill, I defend bill Simmons alot, but he is dead wrong here and the evidence doesnt back up anything he is saying.
Harden was going to Philly when Morey came here. That was the plan. To out harden and Embiid together. After Morey came here, it became clear no matter what Morey did, Houston would never trade harden to Philly. So then the plan became go to Brooklyn for a year and then go to Philly. And we know this was the plan when harden didn't sign the extension. Harden was planning to get moved to Philly before all the kyrie stuff happened, if not he would have signed the insane supermax.
Bill saying harden is lying based on national reporting is rediculous and makes bill look bad. All the local reporting from all the teams at the time was harden wanted to be in Philly but knew Houston wouldn't do the deal because of Morey and his back up plan was Brooklyn.
Harden is NOT boys with Durant. They had barely spoken in years before the trade. All of hardens real life boys are in Philly. Literally his real friends are all here. This where he wanted to be.
This idea about whos team it is and all that stuff is nonsense. Harden wants to win titles and as everyone knows if you win in Philly you're a god here. If they win harden will never pay for lap dance again. My buddy works at Delilah's so I can attest to that.
The hate harden is getting for not wanting to be part of full on rebuild in Houston or the sh*tshow in Brooklyn is rediculous. No one wants to play with kyrie outside of Durant. Everyone else he has ever played with was happy he was gone.
And more important than all of that, can we please stop covering the 8th seed in the east like they are 1 seed? The Cavs, bulls, suns, bucks, warriors, sixers, and heat are the story this year. Stop talking about the Lakers and nets. They are fringe playoff teams that will both be golfing by the second round. Let's keep our eye on the ball here.
I think Steve Nash needs to go! I don’t like his style of coaching!
Don't matter harden is gonna want out of Philadelphia in 18 months tops
Why Bill always just making stuff up🤣🤣
Harden is not winning anything in Philly
He looks bad. If you count no hustle on defense to get back oh he’s great . This sizers team will go as far as maxey will take them. Embid will get his .. Harden will dribble a trillion times a came ti fire his bricks up when it counts. Morey will get fired for this trade in a year or 2
lol how would Simmons know what Harden thought? Like how can you really say you know another man better than he does lol. Come on man. BS you have to know where to pick your battles.
Yo I ain’t gunna if I was Durant I would’ve just stayed gsw fuck wha ppl think
Lowe looks like he has been dressing in drag and just ripped his wig off
Don't expect much from Little game James.
The talk of Steph's team makes me think of Steph and the All Star game. Watching the All Star game last weekend and trying not to scream and puke and turn it off because of just how badly it's played now. It was going downhill before but I think the blame for where it's at right now is hugely on Steph. When the face of the league lays on the floor to get dunked on while smiling and giggling and then just chucks 30-45 footers all game getting big oooohs and ahhhhs for the 2 out of 10 he makes, it plants a seed with the other players. Most of the time only 4 players crossed half court this year and the effort showed in the 4th quarter still only matched the effort of an off-season pickup game. Dudes were offended when guys would put on a slight burst and take the free lay up. Game was especially awful and I think most of the blame is on Steph.
💯 agree
So Embiid has been working on the trade for Beal, but he claims he was "chasing" Ben to come back? Then it is covered and idiot fans act like Embiid was being altruistic and a good teammate towards Ben in "putting his pride aside" to get Ben back comfortable...such a BS storyline on so many sides
He said poo poo lol
the harden nets- kd warriors is a horrible analogy to fabricate an excuse for harden 🤮
Zach you need some sleep bro. You look like my grandmother
What the hell did I just watch? What real story was this? Simmons is turning into a joke of a journalist
Stop instigating yo....
I give Embiid credit he knew Beal was the best option as a co-star teammate unfortunately Morey is a Harden fanatic and couldn't wait to reunite with his best friend again.
Second,Harden so damn fake saying Philly was his first option cuz if that were true Durant woulda never cosigned bring him there and losing the young talent they had with Allen n LeVert that they still coulda used now
What is Zack wearing, ma man looking weird as hell
It’s just a Nike jacket, who’s weird here?
Much weirder paying attention to their clothing and then finding it appropriate to comment on it. Keep it to sports.
His mom died a few weeks ago. I'm sure he's still having trouble keeping it together
Bill Simmons has become more and more the type of individual that depicts black athletes in a look at them...I have a scoop no one else has and it paints them in a negative fashion over and over. Who is pulling your strings...kyrie, harden, constant negative diatribe
Kyrie is a brave resolute man. He stood up to medical tyranny. Now he's gonna win a ring.
Kyrie-
2021-2022- non vax caused issues in locker room
2020-2021- disappearing from team (mysterious time off)
2019-2020- publicly criticized teammates saying need 3rd guy when KD gets back
2018-2019- rifts with young Celtics all season
2017-2018- gets hurt team plays better without him
2016-2017- breaks up Cleveland team
When people gonna realize this guy has been a loser since leaving Lebron
How is he a loser for standing up for his beliefs
@@janrobertching8391 lol that’s only one u gonna look at not previous 5 years of bs just this one