Racing a Gravel Bike in a PRO Criterium?!?
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- čas přidán 6. 06. 2024
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Next up pro crit on a full suspension mountain bike?
yes soon but not because of why you think. The pavement condition requires it nowadays lol
@@nationsnumber1chump if it's Illinois pavement then definitely 😂
Already exists. The Whiskey off road crit
I'll do it for the people 😂
Wondering if he's riding a cannondale topstone, if so, then it is already a rear suspension bike.
That drone shot at the end though = *chefs kiss*
Look, I'm sure a basic aluminum gravel bike doesn't feel as stiff as his carbon race bike but dude was passing people the whole race, seemed there was plenty of "kick" in the bike when he kicked.
Plus, those wheels looked pretty shallow: I'd guess throwing on some 50mil carbon wheels on that bike would narrow the "kick" difference even more.
Yeah I don't buy it too.
I also don't see why a gravel bike would be any less stiff, mine is hard as a rock and no difference to my road bike (both carbon)
Weirdest thing was his comment about the lower bottom bracket, a typical gravel bike is supposed to have good ground clearance. So I'm taking his gravel bike might be more of a "randonneur" hybrid type which also tends to be sturdier (heavier) with a geometry built for confort much more than for immediate power transfer, would explain the noodling sensations.
Yeah, this channel tends to overthink everything. No, your move 5 minutes early in the race is not that important.
@@lauigGravel bikes are designed around larger tires, the larger tires alone provide more clearance. Some gravel frames have to lower the bottom bracket in order to avoid too high a center of gravity.
For those that dont know, Anniston is a hot sport for good biking. Really good established mtb and also road scene. Mainly due to the founder of Wigs wheels there. Cool to see this race here.
My favorite announcer at it again. Nice work Gabe Lloyd.
Likes for Will pulling the GoPro up! 🤣
That was a bit too much. A gravel frameset doesn't make that much of a difference. On a course like this and with a good wheelset with proper road tyres, as Will was using, the result would have been the same were he on his crit bike. Frameset differences are vastly overstated.
Dude in the yellow kit towards the end sprint finish had the cat 5 celebration for his teammates in the break. That seemed way too sketch with riders literally sprinting next to you for the finish.
16:18
Loved the evening light ambiance
In 2017, Kevin Goguen at age 16 took 10th place at Spartanburg - Pro race on a cyclocross bike.
Sweet, a friday vid!
Where can I watch races live online in the USA?
Assuming tires, wheels, and body position are the same, acceleration is going to be the same - it comes down to power vs drag, nothing really else, no matter how it "feels". There's no other meaningful energy loss in the system. We get different sensations from different geometry but that doesn't mean our feelings represent physical reality. Handling matters for rider confidence and cornering, but that's a different issue.
incorrect. f=ma your mass is incredibly consequential especially when accelerating out of each corner. also, can't assume body position is the same bc bike geometry isn't the same so that affects aerodynamics which is also incredibly consequential at 30mph.
@@NorCalCycling So - exactly like I said? f=ma --> a = f/m in a vacuum only, and body position matters. Drag is aero + rolling resistance. We can do the maths on what 1kg additional mass costs in a sprint, and it's incredibly tiny.
Here I just did the math for you. 1kg costs ~5W in a sprint from 45 to 55km/h that takes 8 seconds, plus 1W more in additional rolling resistance at the final speed. This is a ~1,000W sprint (modeled with a 80kg system weight). Crit corners are not that violent in the majority of the race, you're looking at 1-2W at most in every corner if you are braking then jumping every time. Wheels, tires, body position are what matter the most. Acceleration, in terms of the numbers, is nearly identical, that's just the physics of it. f=ma from highschool only represents some of the forces involved, namely the force to add kinetic energy to the system, and the true total force needs to account for all sources of friction and drag.
Any force that’s going into deforming your frame probably isn’t getting transferred into your drivetrain. So you can produce the same torque at your legs but not get the same force at the tire contact patch if your frame is flexing like crazy
@@Jackisaboss1208 That's not quite how the mechanics work. A little more or less flex doesn't tell you anything about power loss. For one thing, frames are springs with no dampening, and energy is returned. For another, if you're just looking at torque at the crank, you get the same tension on the chain even with a few mm more or less flex in the BB. Bars, wheels, and stem all flex too, which again doesn't tell you much about power loss.
Anyways the argument here was that the bike didn't accelerate as well as a road bike just based on feel, primarily because of weight, and my point is that feel isn't something you can trust and the maths shows how little that matters. We are highly rotational inertia and mass sensitive beings and not at all acceleration or velocity sensitive. And it's annoying to hear racers perpetuate empirically incorrect positions.
the one riding a dogma F got balls of steel. imagine crashing that thing.
I do all my races and rides road or gravel on a Salsa Warbird. Just swap wheels out. Im no pro tho.
What's the gearing of that gravel bike? Is it gravel specific or road specific?
Contano le gambe 🦵!! Ogni bici e’ buona sé le gambe girano forte 😉😉😉
How do you not have another (or four) road bikes? Even if you're sponsored, I'd take any of those over a gravel bike
I used to use a gravel bike for cat 4 crits when I didn’t own a road bike, the two main differences were:
1. my hardest gear was a 40x11 so it span out at about 40-50kph
2. the BB shell is wider so I scraped a pedal leaning out of corners almost every race
So the BB height is the same but its wider?
Here he said the BB height is lower which sounds not great for a gravel bike.
Ultimately proving that the rider is WAY more of an influence over the results than the bike. Of course when surrounded by your peers, you want to be on the best gear possible bjt he was up nesr the front till the end.
A Giant TCX is a perfevtly capable crit bike too. Why not.
We need Glen back on the channel!
What kind of gravel bike was he riding?
Curious: if the only issue with a gravel bike in this scenario is the snap/accel can that problem be fixed by just replacing the wheels?
Yeah pretty much, modern gravel bikes are practically road bikes with more tire clearance
It does weigh almost 20lb...I think the clearance comes with a little more flex too, wheels were very shallow and light reynolds 29mm, can't really get more snappy on those
He mentions the lower bottom bracket being an issue.
It’s not that simple for a bike with 50c tire clearance. The wheelbase, chainstay length, and wheel flop will still affect the feel and handling quite a bit
@@bebopman5 you’re right, while the frame material and geometry may be similar, there are way too many nuances with those differences
Please tell us Max HR in each vid. Raw # doesn’t mean much without knowing the zone
I believe that this hr bar is pretty accurate. If you watch Jeff's races you will see that the bar is full at 170+, with other athletes however, e.g. Ryan from Mike's Bikes, you will see the bar not being full at 200bpm. I think that Jeff probably sets the hrmax of a person for the bar to be accurate. It seems that Will was doing a tempo ride :D
Anyone racing on aluminium in the US Crit scene? Disclaimer: I'm about to return to the Netherlands crit scene on a CAAD13.
Was it legion who raced on spesh allez if I'm not mistaken?
Allez Sprint is quite common in the US Crit scene, and as stated below, L3gion had a team issue Allez Sprint! Go smash some races with your CAAD13!
@@abrahamvrudny6794 It's just as light as my 2006 Madone, which I last raced on in the elite category way back in 2008. (i am 10k heavier though - not fat, I played rugby the last few years and lifted weights)
Allez Sprint is a popular amateur crit bike
I like my noodle. My Giant Revolt Noodle.
28's are tiny tires?? Back in the day, I would often do crits on Conti Comp 19's. (on smooth roads)
And woman did not shave pussies in those days. If U wanna go back it's your choice but stop pretending it was a good solution.
The rims might be really wide
Compared to wider gravel tires!
ya forgot to show the bike.
Not buying the "bike doesn't kick" marketing jargon.
If the bike isn’t stiff you can tell, and a gravel bike usually is constructed to have more give in the chain stays and seat stays to allow a more supple ride in gravel. Consequently the bottom bracket will move as you try to snap and can certainly reduce acceleration some. Even a half second can be difference / noticeable.
Don't buy that the bottom bracket of a Gravelbike is lower than a roadbike's. Maybe it's because of the 28 mm tires.
I believe that aero gravelbikes like the Factor ostro gravel are not slower than their roadbike counterparts.
@@martingesser3846 Have you compared geometry charts??
a short wheelbase bike (race bike) is always gonna' kill a longer wheelbase bike (gravel bike) on acceleration and hard out of the saddle efforts. buy that.
@@seanmccuen6970 I would have to see that tested to believe it, and tested from a race pace, not a standing stop. The one thing I think could really matter would be pedal strike
So now we are recycling Wills channel content?
That's about as wrong tool for the job as showing up to an XC race on an enduro bike haha, I've done that one haha. Didn't do too bad aside from a few sandbaggers in our category who "missed" their start time for the higher category (they didn't like who showed up for their original category), and they seal clubbed as expected.
Ah no, it's not. A gravel bike with swapped wheels is 98% a road bike. A strong rider could easily win the race even in the pros. An XC is a huge disadvantage over a proper enduro bike though. You'd finish dead last in every heat if a pro tried to race an XC bike at an enduro event.
14:08 and 15:38 Why TF is there a random car on the race course on the penultimate lap and final lap???
Sunny King Crit race organizers need to be fined for that stunt. That's legitimately dangerous. So stupid.
That's the pace car. They had to temporarily pull over because the front of the break was getting too close to the back of the peleton and the car would've been stuck in the middle. Car did the right thing pulling over in a safe area and waiting for the field to come around. Except, when it was time for the car to pull out and be in front on the last lap, it just didn't and that was sketchy.
@@tedhorwitz430 Ahh ok thanks for clarifying that
Coming from the guy who raced a CX bike a couple of videos ago… 😂
Nothing better than racing a gravel/ cx bike in a criterium. The bottom bracket is usually elevated and you can pedal earlier or through the full turn. Great choice!
That only goes for (oldschool) CX bikes.
@@sirspankalottt actually? 2019/20 models usually still got this feature and modern gravel bikes are also shifting back to slightly more elevated bottom brackets.
@@stefanbrencher779 hmm some maybe, but the newer generation that's in some cases also a gravelbike (like the crux) have a slightly lower BB than previous CX-bikes. Gravelbikes usually have a too long wheelbase for crits anyway.
Last time a guy showed up to our Wednesday Night Worlds in a gravel bike he got dropped less than a mile in.
Gravel bikes are built to be more compliant thus more flex and wont have the "snap" you need for a crit. Heck, a gravel bike would even feel different in a road race compared to a crit. Being a pro/high level amateur this should be known. It is also known that the gearing gravel bikes come with is easier than that of a road bike unless you changed out to your preferred gearing. Wheels can have a huge impact on the way these gravel bike feel as well. If you found a super stiff road wheel it would make a big difference as well. There are also some gravel bikes that are on the stiffness level of a crit bike. Scott Addict gravel being one of them. Jeff, Maybe a video with full run down, power data metrics, gearing options, road race wheels would be in order to see what a gravel bike can actually do in a road race/crit.
Overall good video and thank you for the content on this friday!
I agree. With a change of gearing and wheels on my SuperSix SE, I don't think I would be at much of a disadvatage.
Yeah, the same logic that everyone "knew" when the fastest tyres were 23mm pumped up to 120psi, "cause they feel faster".
Nonsense…. If you “felt” anything it might be a slacker head angle (0.5 degrees) and more stability with a slightly longer wheel base…. Sure, it may feel different, but it isn’t going to feel slower, just different…
Look into Better Help. Is the criticism valid? Do they steal info from their customers?
Man rides a bike that literally flexes as a feature to smooth out rough roads (isospeed)
Complains about "kick" due to said flex.
Attributes it to all gravel bikes
Okay.jpg
Hello
Of course gravel bike is not an aero bike but dont make it out like its that sloppy please modern gravel bikes are literally road bikes, hell my bmc gravel bike has more aggressive geo than my road bike.
Are there any europeans in this race?
Simon Daniels, who dropped out of the break is from Belgium, among others
@@williamrhardin ahh nice to know, i had a feeling that the american racing enviroment was very inclosed and consisted of americans only.
Gravel bike is just a road bike with knobby tires. Quit drinking the marketing koolaid.
First! Pro level rider with only a gravel bike. Maybe he was traveling and just decided to race…
So you were first… but didn’t actually watch the first ten seconds of the video before commenting…?
@@ryanspivey2453yeah you got me!
What gravel bikes he's racing?
it's a trek i think can't remember the model
If it’s a trek, it’s gotta be the checkpoint. Legit probably the same geometry as the domane, only 45mm of tire clearance. It’s a gravel bike for roadies
@@NorCalCycling then it's prolly a trek checkpoint. It should be mentioned because term gravel bike is just tooooooo wide. Ie. Specialized crux or factor ostro gravel would do a better job in a road race.
It’s a Trek Checkpoint SL7, Will says it one of his videos for a gravel race.
@@NickM86 That explains why he felt these flexes, Checkpoint had a small rear suspension called isospeed, which decoupled the rear triangle.