94 Firebird VAT System (vehicle anti-theft) Operation/Troubleshooting/Bypassing
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- čas přidán 28. 07. 2024
- If you have one of these systems and have already bypassed the key pellet resistor, this video will help you understand how to bypass the module itself.
00:00 - Let's Go Brandon
00:30 - what are we working on?
03:00 - connecting my Verus to an OBD1 port
04:00 - link for VATs bypass video • How to troubleshoot/by...
05:31 - wiring diagram
08:25 - visual inspection of the bypass resistor
10:20 - theft deterrent module location
12:00 - diagnostic fees
18:00 - module removal
18:25 - fuel enable signal on lab scope
19:00 - heat gun on the module
20:00 - module wiring tests
21:45 - starter relay control
26:00 - review of the tests we did
28:00 - signal specs (substitute the signal)
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Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
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There's a neater little bypass trick you can do if you can remove the module.
The modules are (at least the older 30Hz ones were) built with the matching "key" resistor on the PCB for factory test purposes.
At the final stage of the test, they "blow open" the connection to the built in resistor by applying a high current between two pins on the connector to burn out the circuit track.
You just reinstate that connection on the PCB and cut or de-pin the wires to the "key resistor" contacts of the ignition switch
That's fascinating!
Your classes are a goldmind for disarming people with parts cannons.
The programming is a relearn involving learning the resistor value in the key to module. Odds are it the resistor is the wrong one like one size to big but it is close enough where it accepts it. When it gets colder or hotter it changes just enough to put it out of the threshold. I would've remeasured the key to resistor value and made sure it was right.
Haven't watched yet , but the answer is 30hz or 52hz fuel enable signal from the VAT module to ECM. I make them using a simple 555 timer setup. No more key pellets to worry about and no obsolete parts
555 timer chips are handy little fellas for all kinds of things. I used one on my bosses sons Ford Ranger to bypass the flex fuel sensor.
I made so many lost keys for Vats cars back in the day. We had boxes with all 15 values and a 4 minute timer. You tried each value if it didn't start you set the timer and tried the next value until it started. That was the value of the key you then cut. When Briggs and Stratton trained us on these they made it sound like they were bulletproof back in the day. So funny to see now how easily they are bypassed. Now with transponders and push to start vats was like a Model T.
Get a can of air duster, like for PC keyboards, turn it upside down and instant freeze. I use it all the time trouble shooting electronics.
I like your brother's shirt Paul. I was trying to read it and make some kind of sense out of it. Then I saw the name at the bottom.
Can't believe he's gonna run again. He's a puppet, that's why. And the people pulling the strings don't want to let go of the power.
I like a brake testing specially if my son is right behind it , that's a real Dad ❤
I love your videos ScannerDanner family
Hi Danners, Speaking of Half Assed Engineered , I had a Cutlass Supreme with a Half vinyl roof and I needed to take the moldings off around the rear glass, started asking around because I could not figure it out,and I've done a few different moldings. Went to the Dealer to see what tool I needed , they said there's no tool you have to break the molding clips off and put new ones on because no one would make a tool to remove them, it was cheaper to replace the clips. UNTIL YOU COULD NOT FIND NEW ONES!!!!
Before I subscribed to the American autodiagnostic channels, Americans probably don’t drive cars of the 90s, probably the oldest cars of 2016, 2017. I, who is now watching the Scanner Danner channel, today we are repairing cars of 94 years old😳...
For me all started with you, but would like see Danner making again videos, also excellent teacher in depth like you. Probably to busy for making it, you are both 👍👍👍
Classic😍
Love the case study, I remember the last video on this old school anti-theft system, but this one is in depth👍
Superb Thanks for sharing SD😍
& Caleb😎
Stay Safe Guy's❤
Awesome video as always. And the Tshirt is great too.
😊maaannn, I remember working on these systems. Had one on a Corvette that was all Haywacky. Good vid buddy
Nice video, It's alwais fun this kind of systems, thanks for share team Danner
It seemed like if fixed itself as soon as you dropped the panel. So it makes me think that resistor got pinched, and because it was crossed in a funky way, it just shorted the wires right there. When I tape stuff like that, I'll take a short piece of tape and wrap one leg independently a few times, and then wrap the entire thing; just to make sure that it can never cross, even when smashed. (I've always wired speaker wires that way too.)
I suppose that is possible.
Great shirt.
I love it, I never heard that, is it a joke or did he really say that?
I can't keep track of all of his screw ups. My prior favorite was
"America is a country that can be defined in a single word abgertzwurnin....
As Kamala sits there with a fake smile as if that didn't just happen.
I had to read this twice. Coffee hasn’t kicked in yet. 😂
I have an ALDL cable to tune my 95 impala. I used tunercat to disable the vats system on my car. There’s a couple of decent free Lt1 editing programs to use on the lt1 obdi platform.
Congratulations to you Paul.
For what? Thanks!
Awesome Outstanding job thanks
Great info, Thanks!
I had a 1996 Pontiac Bonneville SSEI with the VATS theft deterrent. The system was very sensitive to changes in the resistance of the pellet in the key. I remember a time when the car refused to start, it turns out that just handing the key after using armor all was enough to make the resistance change enough to keep it from starting. I cleaned the key with some rubbing alcohol on a rag and all was well again.
I just delt with this last week on a 1990 corvette. Customer lost the key. We purchased a resistor kit from a company online. I took 3hrs to find the correct residence. As the vats for this year locks you out after 3 failed attemps. I had to wait 40 mins between attempts after the first 3 resistances were tried. I wanted to by pass it also but the Customer wanted it to be oem since its a very oem 15k mileage one
Nice T shirt 😅😅😅 thank for sharing teacher Danner!
seeing the poor cold solder joints on resistor, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't corrosion in the terminals and the circuit has just enough current flow, to alter it especially with vibration.
but I heard mention of remote start, maybe it's doing something stupid also. I'd look at the ground G120, since it says rear of engine above starter, those always get wasted on every GM I've seen, as well as the body to frame and engine straps.
Aren't you afraid of offending the vast majority of people out there who voted that man into office and are bent on keeping him there? Nice video and that was the cherry on the top.
🤣 not at all my friend
good info.
Nice work again Mr. Danner. Oilers will win the Stanley Cup 2023, bank it.
7:50 Takeover Rule invoked - "Whence upon a sibling 'borrows' item, ownership of said item shall be transferred to the borrowee after three full moon cycles. The borrower may, at any time, sneak into the borrowing siblings room to reclaim said items, at risk of a basement wrestling match and subsequent "Dont make me come down there" from moms. Taunting and singsonging about historic Takeovers are the responsibility of the borrowing sibling"
Stay gold.
Connor McDavid is an absolute beast. I was surprised last year that they couldn't compete with the Avs
The programming of new module was to set the key resistance to the module. Tech 2 function
How i wish you would have been teaching back in early 70's. ive leaned so much on your channel alone.
Thank you Jim!
Check if the black/yellow wire from the start relay is grounded to the chassis, when you opened the kick panel on the driver side, it could have grounded again, the distributor code that was set seems related. Check the resistance value of the resistor connected to the ppl/white and white/blk wires. Check if it could be related to the battery voltage since resistance is a function of voltage.
Too late. By the time you guys see these videos, the cars been gone for weeks.
Cool, you break things
The guy at home just watching Scanner Danner rip their Solder job lmao
A very cheap and widely available 555 timer IC and some cheap components and you could easily knock up that 50% duty cycle at the correct frequency. You wouldn't even need a 'computer', microcontroller, 'arduino' etc. :)
30hz for oldest and 52hz for the 1992 to 1994 Era
It's perfect. 👌
I can see somebody at GM thinking that putting that module there was a good idea, because it would be difficult to get to while stealing a car. The starter relay side of that circuit, it just seems like its a fancy way of having an automatic starter kill switch. Not really sure why they even included it because you could crank it all day and it would never run without that fuel enable signal. On the later PATS systems, there is no starter kill, it only kills injection pulse and control of the fuel pump.
I've done one of these and it was the connector pins on the module side(probably cracked solder), everytime I wiggled the connector it would start.
I had a 91 Camaro when I was 16 and I think there was 15 different codes you could get and I replaced the lock cylinder and the car wouldn’t crank so I by passed it with a switch so it was like a poor man’s race car start up I would use the key and then hit the switch to crank. I remember there was a purple wire under the radio in the shifter area and I can see the starter on the diagram has a purple wire so that’s what I was using for my switch but the internet wasn’t big back then so idk how I figured it out
Awesome
T-shirt-fire😎😁
The one thing I did notice is that battery looks like it has a bad cell. Having a bad cell in a battery can make a car do some weird things, ie: theft light flash, no crank etc..
Hey Paul can you please add more security system diagnostic on your channel or site? There is so few places to learn about how the trouble shoot and diagnose these systems. I have had a Hyundai santa fe in the shop for 4 days now kicking my butt and can't make heads or tails of the system
interesting so you could use a wimpy stm32 mcu using one of the timers inside
Bad ground to module g120 above starter
Also the purge valve is at 100 percent all the time
Everything I am finding ,from Corvette shop manual says the VATS module pin to give a ground to the starter enable relay only closes to ground at the same time the key is turned to power ON and the resistor pellet is correct.
The injectors are also cut off by the ECM without a proper signal from the VATs module
@@ScannerDanner Yes, my point was that in your video you thought the Starter enable relay control was always grounded , Normally closed . But I am finding from the shop manual the ground control side that goes thru the VATS module is normally open, and closes when the resistor is correct and there is key on power to the VATS module. The 86 Corvette was first to use VATS, and many in the Face Book C4 Corvette groups struggle with the VATS system. I am happy to have the same 85 Vette with no VATS for the past 36 years. Thanks !
Great vid, now that we know that wire is a 5 volt square wave could we find that wire at the computer and check it there instead of digging out the module? of course all the other wires would have to be checked eventually but quick and dirty check that wire first. I think the computer is easy to get to on them.
You'd want to verify power and ground at that anti-theft module too
T-shirt, hilarious!!!!!
Couldn’t you even bypass the fuel enable by just wiring up the fuel pump circuit on the pcm side so it’s switched on with ignition on? I’ve always been curious about doing it to these old vats systems. Great vid Danner!!
No it’s injector enable not fuel pump enable.
I have a 1999 Chevy Lumina. I replaced the ignition cylinder several years ago and it worked just fine . Now the car will crank and run just fine but the Security light is illuminated constantly. It will also start and run with a "non VATS" key. The non VATS keys are the blank keys that came with the ignition switch that I just happened to find. Do you think this could be caused by the theft module? I bought the car new and none of the wiring has been tampered with.
My daughter has a 2001 grand am with the vats system. It has the resistor mod but the security light stays on all the time like the firebird. Then every once in a while the security light will flash and require the 10 min relearn. My daughter just deals with it
Yeah those ignition lock cylinders (no chip in the key, but a hall effect switch in the lock) would fail all the time. I'd replace that and the ignition switch together and be done with it.
👍👍
Canned air can make things very cold.
I've chatted with u about 6 months ago on a 94 camaro z28 has no spark put new icm coil and opti cranks over but still now spark and on my snap on scanner says no codes any guess on where else to start
👍👍👍
What about a cold colder joint
don't ground the VATS starter relay, just jumper it out and get rid of it fully. then it will always crank, but of course still be no fuel/no start if something is bad.
.42 kohm aka 420 ohms, when doing test with it grounding relay, that again seems very high and makes me think there's a ground issue at G120/other body/frame/engine straps.
Hi Mr Danner, I'm in the process of learning from your book and your premium site. This might sound silly but I notice that there is a similarity between ground/power side switched and pull up/down design. Is Ground side switched a pull up design, while power side switched is a pull down design? Thank you.
Thank you! There are similarities but they are absolutely not the same. Pull-up and pull-down circuitry are terms applied to INPUT circuits. Power/Ground side switching are OUTPUT circuits. You definitely do not want to get them mixed up when troubleshooting.
@@ScannerDanner Thank you so much for the answer. I will keep that in mind and continue learning from your materials. God bless you.
Hahahaha, 4:18 - -Smooth as Brother
could a low battery affect the value what the module is seeing from the resistor and by putting battery support/charger on brought the value back to spec
Not with a 5v ref as a source to that resistor
So Danner not working on cars anymore?
Have a question I have a 2001 dodge ram 1500 5.2 with a code p1494 I been trying to figure out what is going on but haven't had any luck figure out what it is
Define the code please
That says 0.42kOhms (420 Ohms) not 42,000 Ohms
😅 dude, me and math don't get along on camera
You saying that INTERMITTENT IS WORST!? true, and for that's reason you work on it .. otherwise somebody will do that if are easy task, Doctor Paul.
A GM engineer told me that signal was a 30 Hz signal to the ECM!
Was it 30 in mine lol, I forget!
When a sensor sends a binary signal to an ecu in reference to it's system condition I understand before that reference comes an address in binary to tell the ecu which sensor is sending that data. So if say a sensor's address is 1101 and it is sending a signal of 0011 volts does it look like this 1101 0011 1101 0011 1101 0011 1101 0011? Or does he sensor just send the voltage signal of 0011? If it only sends the voltage signal how does the ecu know which sensor is sending it that data if it does not also send it's address data?
There is a module that is talking to another module here. It's a go, no go, signal.
Flat line high or low voltage I believe, when there is no key detected.
With today's custom printed circuits available through the internet, 3d printers, we could easily build new and better designed modules to substitute a signal like this.
That was my hope lol, otherwise this was a throw away video for most. But there were still some good testing methods shown that the true seeker can learn from. I appreciate this comment
@@ScannerDanner #1 I really appreciate all you have done, you have enhanced so many techs skillset and helped to start a wave of change in the industry.
#2 your brothers shirt is A+ I want one.
Honestly you could probably feed it 100% duty cycle at 5v and it would run
Am I wrong in thinking that it could be an intermittent failure of the relay?
You would be. When the issue occurs the security light is flashing meaning the module will take away the ground to the relay. Judging by what was tested the issue will more than likely be faulty module or incorrect resistor as others have stated.
So how would you bypass the fuel part of it? Cuz I have a 1995 Pontiac firebird that starts and shuts right back off it's not getting any fuel
Fuel pressure? The vats system has nothing to do with fuel pump control.
So the 5v signal goes to DK BLU 229 and YEL/BLK 625 gets permanently grounded?
Are you trying to add a resistor?
@@ScannerDannerNo I’m using a VATS bypass module that sends the fuel signal
There are VATS timers for sales about 25 bucks or less. Available in 30 hz or 50 hz. DJT 2024 !
Nice! That'd be the way to go for a module failure for sure
love the lets go brandon stuff! MAGA!!!!
P1494 leak detection pump pressure switch malfunction
Would a 2001 be about the same?
No. Totally different as the resistor is built into the lock assembly and is switched by a hall effect circuit
10 min key on relearn vast key resistance,
Want a permanent and easy fix?
Send the PCM to Drag Radial Performance, and we will delete VATS permanently from the PCM. The PCM will no longer care what the VATS module thinks. No more wiring in resistors. No more pulling the dash apart. No more programming keys or VATS modules. And never again will you have these intermittent no start issues.
We can do this on most Ford, GM, and Dodge vehicles, and the cost is very reasonable. Less than you can buy a module for. Less than the labor cost of installing a resistor in most cases.
Resistor bypass mods only work if the Vehicle Theft Deterrent module is good, and the key resistance is bad. If the VTD module or wiring is bad, a resistor won't fix the car. These modules are going bad often at this age, and are usually obsolete.
Having us delete VATS in the PCM is basically a guaranteed win. The car will start every time. But you will also have to permanently ground the starter relay, so the car will also crank every time too.
This would have been the perfect solution for the car in this case study, and requires very little labor. Pull the PCM and send it to us, and cut and ground the starter relay control/ground wire.
chances are the vats is ok. the remote starter wiring is probably the culprit
The security light flashes as well as the starter is disabled when it acts up.
At least you can talk to this ECU! Break out the MT2500 AKA the brick that’s what I use dam OBD1 I love it ….🥶☝️
A 3 wire MAP sensor when its unpluged the reffrence is 5v but if you pluged in voltag drops to 1v
. shorted map or voltage drop on the reff wire?
Help😢
Inside the PCM, there is a resistor between the 5v regulator and the 5v vref wire coming out of the PCM.
So when you have a short to ground in the VREF wire, or a shorted 5v sensor on that circuit, it causes a voltage drop in the VREF voltage.
If unplugging the 5v map sensor restores the VREF circuit back to 5 volts, the MAP sensor you just unplugged is bad and is internally shorting VREF to ground, causing the voltage drop across that resistor in the PCM. Thus the 1v VREF voltage.
Is it possible that a corroted wire can do this? If we unpluged the connector and ther is no corrent flow and it reads 5 v and when we plug in circut become loded and the voltage drops. Is that a possiblety?
It's possible that there is a voltage drop on the 5v wire itself, sure. But it's much more likely that the map sensor is shorted to ground internally, as previously discussed. The 5v regulator would constantly try to bring voltage back up to 5. Check VREF on a different 5v 3 wire sensor on the car and see if that other sensors VREF voltage is fine.
Thanx a lot man❤️
lmao @ velcro head 🥳🤣
Брат переміщується по майстерні за допомогою googl map? 😂
why does your brother walk around smoking a joint?
It's a cigar lol
LMAO 🤣 too funny.
To be fair, they made this hard to access to help prevent easily hot wiring a car. This is one thing where I can kinda understand making it not so easy to get to.
Put a New Rockies box in it and call it a day ....
You're welcome.....
I have an e-book from you can not get into it.
email me at support@scannerdanner.com
So, I need an oscillator...wtf
What's an oscillator? 😆
FJB
I tend to vote more for democrats, and I've got to admit, that was a pretty funny shirt.
Fuel and able are they from the bible?🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
🤣
hi scannerdanner i need hlp in ac isue or i will unsubscribe the chanal 😂
you're in the wrong playlist lol Go to my HVAC playlist
on my way