How the Tesla Powerwall 3 Will Put Everyone Else Out Of Business. Enphase vs Tesla Battery Cost
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- čas přidán 27. 03. 2024
- Julian Todd-Borden - Superior Solar Consulting
(760) 473-5878
Juliansolarguide@gmail.com
Juliansolarguide.com
The Tesla Powerwall 3 is a big wake up call to all the other solar and battery manufacturers. Tesla has, in my opinion, done something that is very important for moving the industry forward and further into the range of affordability for even more people. Tesla has not reinvented the wheel, but come to market with a very solid hybrid inverter battery system at a price point in which nobody else can touch. Add the fact that they are first to market with the Meter Collar device which will alleviate the need for a complete critical loads panel rewiring, and it puts them another few thousand ahead of everyone else in terms of cost savings. We are certified to install the Tesla Powerwall 3 in 25+ states as of April 2024 so reach out if you'd like a proposal for a solar system utilizing the Powerwall 3 or any other equipment you're interested in.
Would you like to get started with a consultation? If so, then please fill out the form in the link below. Once received, my assistant Cody will call you back afterwards to explain next steps in receiving a thorough consultation and quote from us. Thank you for watching the channel.
form.jotform.com/230316991463155
Outstanding.
Another solid video, Julian. Wow... I'm just really happy I locked in NEM 2.0 last second, because all I see is these backup battery systems getting better and better and cheaper, in relative terms. In 20 years, when my NEM agreement is up, adding enough storage to essentially operate entirely independently of the grid will likely be quite affordable, well integrated, and reliable.
Julian, great video as always! A few things: 1) How does the math stack-up if you already have an enphase system? I'm thinking about adding the EPCube since I can tie-in my existing AC coupled system and also add more DC panels direct to the MPPTs in the EPcube. Tesla PW3 is only DC coupled, no?
2) The "Check out my solar comparison video" button/link at the end of the video isn't working for me on my desktop computer.
Tesla now offers PW3 AC-coupled version - they probably realized that they would lose a lot of market by going DC only.
Julian still kicking ass. Love it old friend!
Could I have a PW3 installed to replace my "dumb" inverter ? In 2026 I will be forced into NEM 3.0 ( only grandfathered for 20 years ). Need battery and ability to control time-of-use to avoid PG&E increases coming my way. Seems like the PW3 would be the simplest way to go, instead of getting a smart inverter & battery ?
Great job Julian, thanks for the helpful info 🚀🚀
Glad it was helpful!
I don't understand the critical loads panel and why the meter collar would change that. I'm in New Zealand and have solar plus 2 Powerwalls connected to my existing fuse box (breaker panel), and it powers everything...no critical loads panel. The installer simply took 4 wires from my board to the gateway, 1 for ground, 1 for neutral and the other 2 to take the grid connected phase to the gateway and to bring a supply back to the breakers. The gateway then controls the flow of power.
You have different electrical
Code. In the US, we require rapid shutdown as per national electric code and so going into backup mode has always required all the extra safety hardware to ensure the grid stays down while being worked on
22000 usd I have 8kw inverter, 48kw battery and 12kw of solar. With out rebates, Lead carbon batteries, sealed no maintenance, can charge at 11kw and -30c with no heater, and 2600 watts in full overcast.
20kw of batteries from Sig solar is $4000 , 18kw inverter $5000 . Powerwall 3 for 9k.
Hey Julian what’s the best deal you can sale the Tesla Power 3 to an existing solar panel owner? Also am I add this to my system without messing with my NEM 2?
PW3 can only be used on new solar installations since it has a built in inverter inside it
Hey Ariel. You’d want to add a Franklin battery to an existing iq7 system. AC coupled PW3 will be out end of year
@@Superiorsolarconsulting what about the nem 2? Would I lose it if I add a battery
@@arielcolon3051 nope. You’re free to add a battery and it won’t affect your nem status
Agreed Julian, this should up Enphase's game for pricing (and perhaps features). Please do a follow up video for Enphase's market response. We can definitely benefit from a pricing war between these two giants!
I may be visiting Enphase headquarters within the next few months to see some future tech. Will share what I can
It would be cool if you could use the powerwall 3 in retrofit settings.
It lack’s flexibility since it’s only DC.
Should have gotten a dc inverter not ac!
An AC coupled version is set to be released Q3/4
Agreed. DC coupled batteries are nit as desirable to my market.
great explainer Julian, I wonder if Tesla making their own batteries is giving them an edge on cost?
They are doing an aggressive market takeover with temporary low margins in hopes that they can raise them later after taking more market share
Luckily in the UK we have some much better non Tesla options which are cheaper and have much better integration into power companies APIs for dynamic pricing.
I am confused about how the meter collar replaces a critical loads panel. Without the panel your heavy loads will still draw down the battery. I can't find any data on the internet about this. What am I missing? Thanks!
You just have to consciously not have all the lights on, turn your AC off if unneeded, and be conservative if we really in a prolonged outage situation
Ok that makes sense. Never quite got the importance of a critical loads panel when you could just shut off the breaker to the unimportant stuff and basically have the same effect for a lot cheaper. If you are at home of course, you don't want the A/C to drain your battery while you are at work I guess.
I don’t see how Enphase can do a meter collar. The 5P batteries are 240V only and the system controller has a neutral forming transformer (NFT) to provide for 120V loads. So you’ll still need the system controller that is $2500+ once you get the required breakers in there. Plus Enphase requires a cell modem that is an extra $500 not required by Tesla. I’ve been installing Enphase for 15 years, I have Enphase PV and batteries on my house but Tesla is going to eat their lunch now that they don’t have a manufacturing backlog.
To my knowledge the controller will still be required even with the meter collar
Are you in the process of gaining Louisiana as a state you can help with?
Unfortunately for some reason none of the companies I work with service LA. If you get proposals I can review them for you. Your electricity is very inexpensive so the payback is long
The new PW3 sounds nice. We have a couple PW2s and love them. Nothing like not having an annual electric bill and instantaneous (no lights flicker, TV stays up, etc.) backup in an outage. The only way we know the power dropped is a message on the app.
Solar and batteries really aren’t appreciated until owned. I know pretty much nobody that regrets it
Powerwall 3 is worthless. Our storms knock down telephone poles.
A Glass box ? cracked & fills with water in the 1 hour. Zap, dead box.
Sl much for Teslas "brilliant" idea of a glass box for backup power ! Lol...
@@SeaJay_Oceans I’ll study up on the toughness factor
Nice sales presentation. Please people - Do your due diligence. The reason the Powerwall is getting "cheaper" is that storage batteries in general are coming down in price. I can now source batteries for $2100 for 5.1kW
You can always find a cheaper product. But does it actually work reliably, have manufacturer support, helpful to the contractors actually installing it? These factors are more important than price. Batteries themselves without inverters and controllers are also cheaper. The Powerwall 3 is all three of these in one
The new EG4 Wallmount battery (just the battery) is 14kWh for $3400
1) People should note that the cheap battery comments here only refer to the battery. There's still the hybrid inverter, charge controller (can be 1 product), essential loads panel and gateway needed.
2) People should look at their IOU for the latest solar rates. The savings projected are too optimistic. A 7.2kW array will produce way more than 50kWh/day Spring-Fall. A single 13.5kWh battery will not result in full self-consumption. Under NEM3.0, excess energy gets ALMOST ZERO credits (esp in Spring and Fall) while the high export credits offered during peak demand only occurs in for just ONE month and even then for just TWO hours a day.
3) Finally any projected ROI over 20 years has a big caveat. It assumes the status quo. IOUs and their unions (and thus the Democrats) hate solar. Using their usual "not paying your fair share" argument, they're constantly proposing solar taxes just to kill rooftop solar.
Note: I'm a big solar advocate but I have no financial interest in solar. So I tell people the truth.
@@sitechca70I'm sorry, do you think Republicans support solar or renewable energy at all? Lololol
@@juantimer Just because the Democrats are hypocrites does not mean Republicans are the salvation. They too are hypocrites. "My body my choice no vaccine mandate" then they do "no abortion for you".
Smart-E is in 6 markets and growing with 7.49% and zero dealer fees
Plus, there are plenty of other options servicing multiple markets with zero dealer fees
Text or call me if you work with them. 760-473-5878.
I don’t trust Tesla for solar or house batteries. Enph has better warranty.
I would like to know do you actually need to have a 10kw system for the economic benefit of having a battery. Ie are most ppl actually drawing down the 10kw overnight ?
Also if you loose the grid does the pw recharge off your panels prior the grid coming back on.
10 kWh means ~8 kWh usable capacity. In 12 hrs that means 667 W of usage during the night. You're going to need a system like that if you run aircon during the evening and night. With gas for heating and hot water, and only rarely using the aircon, you could go for a smaller battery.
Really good video!
Glad you think so!
Our company, Harvey Woods LLC, has 6.5% with no dealer fee. We are located in New Hampshire, custom engineered the financing because solar is a commodity generating asset.
Do you finance nationally?
Do these systems have a 20 year warranty as inverters and batteries usually only last 10 years before they fail and need to be replaced.
Unfortunately you don't mention that
Tesla offers a 10 year parts and labor warranty on the Powerwall 3
@@Superiorsolarconsulting have you factored the replacement cost of batteries and inverter into your presentation?
I have not because we don’t know really how the degradation in the current batteries will play out. Real world figures from already installed systems are showing less degradation than the warranty covers and so I’m not so sure we should make an automatic assumption that we’ll need to replace batteries in 10 years. Also, we don’t know the tech or cost of batteries in 10-15 years. It may get really cheap if lithium processing and mining pricing keeps coming down. We are on track to have very cheap batteries in 5-10 years. Still, it doesn’t make sense to wait because the cost of the utility bills along with the probably cost of the batteries in the future will still add up to more. But, I don’t think we should scare people with thinking they’ll need to make a huge investment in more batteries in 10-15 years.
@Superiorsolarconsulting it's called being upfront and honest
@@Joanddave 😂 okay bro bro. This video is about the upfront financial aspect. I have other battery videos that go into this topic specifically. Can’t have 1 video that’s 3 hours long and covers everything. Nobody would watch it. Go explore some of my other videos and recognize how I point out all the hidden issues that most reps would never want to tell their clients. I shine the light on these issues. This was simply not the video to explain potential battery replacements before the panels need to be.
I had Tesla install 7.29 Kw of Solar panels and 2 powerwall 3s in Anaheim Ca, I ordered in Nov 2023 system installed March 2024, total cost from Tesla was $39,000 before and tax rebate af 30%
FYI Anaheim Electric has chosen to continue with NEM 2.0
I spoke with APS directly and the buyback is essentially nem3.0 unfortunately :/
Where did you hear they were sticking with nem2.0?
I always heard Anaheim was tougher to pencil solar as its a different grid system compared to the rest of Southern California. But not saying it’s not worth it, because it totally is.
@@anthonyhalkyer2036 it’s definitely still worth it
@@Superiorsolarconsulting I’m so glad to hear that.
EG4 is less expensive for more capability electrically and storage capacity. Not sure why you think Tesla will lose money on the PW3 at their current price when they are still more expensive than EG4 in all aspects.
Thats what i am curious about... how is that price even possible?
@@solartimeusa Don't know but the new NHX 20kW Hybrid inverter is only $4400 vs the EG4 18Kpv (only 12kW inverter) at $5100 and it appears to have the same capabilities and features if not more. Maybe just not quite as refined. So even EG4/Signature Solar is being undercut in some aspects but they have a 200A transfer switch with 10 year warranty vs NHX's no transfer switch with 5 year. Competition Competition Competition.
You can buy 2x of NHX's 10kW hybrids for $2200 each which is odd since it equals the same price as their 20kW model but close to double the materials. For that price thought this is the route I would go. Redundancy! They have somewhat low power draw at idle and are very quiet evidently.
The equipment you’re speaking of is literally made for DIY set ups which most people are not even permitting. Real contractors are not using EG4 and ecoflow like all the DIY’ers say they want because of price point.
Even the very best products still have issues so no real contractors can risk using products they can’t get solid manufacturer support from. There’s always going to be a product that’s cheaper. Is that our goal here? To make things for as cheap as possible? Or make products that actually work?
@@Superiorsolarconsulting I have seen this installed in a few situations already by "REAL" contractors, permitting and all. If people choose to DIY and not permit, that is one them. However, what you are saying is becoming less the case as time goes by. A couple contractors in my area have already realized the party is over with regards to overpriced and under spec'd systems. Independent solar contractors are taking these jobs as fast as they can get them too.
What about the Mango Power M compared to these batteries? Including the installation expense. Seems like mango is more flexible and has generator tie in ability. Please compare this in a different video.
I think Solar Surge just recently made a video on the two batteries being compared
@@Superiorsolarconsulting you show cost of equipment installed which is best practice
I don’t see how Enphase can do a meter collar. The 5P batteries are 240V only and the system controller has a neutral forming transformer (NFT) to provide for 120V loads. So you’ll still need the system controller that is $2500+ once you get the required breakers in there. Plus Enphase requires a cell modem that is an extra $500 not required by Tesla. I’ve been installing Enphase for 15 years, I have Enphase PV and batteries on my house but Tesla is going to eat their lunch now that they don’t have a manufacturing backlog.
To my understanding the IQ Controller will still be required with the meter collar for backup@@damon808
Is that a Matador loan on the board, 20 yr 9.24%
No but they could have a similar one
@@Superiorsolarconsulting Yes, they have the 9.24% rate with no dealer fees. They also have a 12 year 7.24% with no dealer fees. It's FICO based though 720+, the next credit range and the rate increases by 1%. They have only 1 buydown option which is 10% dealer fee to get the 20 or 25 year 7.24% or 12 year 5.24% (with 720+ FICO) but the payments are actually higher so the buydown doesn't really make any sense anyway. It's a CA credit union. The contractor can create their own stage payments per job and the bank cuts checks to the customer who then needs to pay the contractor directly. It actually cash flows like a cash deal. They have it structured so you can basically say hey go find your own method of finance and it looks like a cash deal to us. Then instead of them finding their own source, you have the bank to go to and can facilitate the process. It's actually the best financing I've seen
@@Superiorsolarconsulting I thought you had mentioned Enphase was coming out with a new 10P. Are you referring to a single ESS unit of 10 kWh or a new cover kit that acts as an enclosure kind of how the 10T was really (3) 3Ts in a single cover kit?
Super helpful video! Thank you for doing all the work!
Thanks, Martyna!
Idk where these quotes are for but in Seattle with a Tesla charging my power bill is constantly below 170 even in winter it's a hard sell plus I know we get no sun in the winter it is nice to have solar backup tho in case wild fires or power outages
These prices are modeled with Southern California rates
I am DYI'ing a 6 kw inverter with a single 14.3 kw battery, as a power outtage only system right now and so far have $5,900 in it. I only have to put in a transfer switch to finish it out. Hopefully, with permit and electrician, I will still be under $8,000.
800w of solar with a 6kW inverter?
Yea, that was wrong...
The portable 800w is for the Anker Solix F3800 that I am hooking up with the smart home panel 😂.
The 6k inverter and 14kwh battery is in a shed that will only be charged/used as needed when the Anker runs out of juice. There are too many irons in the fire.
Are you going to draw up those engineering designs yourself as well?
As the homeowner, I installed everything myself and only had to show the manufacturer manuals and give a written description of how it would all be installed. Passed inspection on 1st call.
As a mechanical contractor for the last 40 years, I have a good idea about how to do things to pass code and make city inspectors happy.
Great video. Breaking data down on a whiteboard so it can be easily spoken to and digested by the listener is hard!! Really good
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for all the knowledge but how do you get paid or make money off solar consulting? Do you charge a fee or does the solar company pay you? Thank you Julian and keep up the great work.
Hey Jesse. I don’t charge for consultations or get paid from manufacturers. The most difficult aspect of solar sales is simply getting people to even want to speak with you. 99% of guys are out knocking on doors to create opportunities. I have CZcams doing that for me and I get 5-10 people a day usually calling to hopefully see if we can just handle their project in full for them. I consult and sell full projects
I’m in Texas and I have quotes from 3 companies Tesla being one of them and I’m seeing a rate of 7.99% for 15 yrs
for them and additional rates of 7.99% for 25yrs and 3.99% for 25 yrs but the total cost is more because you’re buying the rate down.
Can I build you a proposal? I can do the Powerwall 3 with better panels. 760-473-5878
@@Superiorsolarconsulting sure thing, I filled out one of your forms after I watched your video and am waiting a call back. The only problem I have is that I just retired a year ago and this is first year I’ve filed a tax return with no job income so I’m not going to see any benefit from the 30% tax refund for buying solar.
We’ll figure out the best solution. My assistant will be calling you tomorrow to get started if he hasn’t already. Thanks!
I was just quoted by Tesla at 7.4
Great. Give me a call and let’s see if we can get you something better. 760-473-5878
Not sure you know what what you're talking about, the price of Lithium has dropped more than 80%... Maybe that's the reason can cut their prices and still make a ton of money... Do your research...
Maybe you can make a better video explaining it?
I live in Nor. Cal. Tesla is doing their install on my house now. 9.34KW System with one Tesla3 Power wall. My total cost, after taxes, AND BEFORE Federal Tax credit is 35.3K!!! Sun Run wanted 59K for same system with a Gen2 Power wall. Several other companies wanted in the high 40's with off brand power walls. So Far, Tesla has been very easy to deal with! Lets see if PG&E gets my system turned on in a reasonable time...
You’ll need more than one PW3 if you have a 9kw system… ugh even Tesla can’t size their system correctly
@@Superiorsolarconsulting They wanted to give me two. I did not want to pay the extra 12K
@@kwesty1 it’ll end up costing you more to not have the second battery because your utility bill will be larger than what the proposal likely says. Probably only 70% bill coverage with being a bit short on storage
@@Superiorsolarconsulting My intent was to only offset my bill between 70-80%. The system is expected to generate 13K hours annually. Last year, we used 14.5K. Here we have PGE and are paying 41-49 cents per KW hour. I paid cash, so I'm not concerned about all the finance BS which racks the cost up.
Right.. well just for anyone reading this, the ROI and payback period will actually be faster with the proper number of batteries. I would say you need a second. The net cost for the second battery would probably be 7-9k. The utility bills will add up to be more than that within the 10 years. I’ve been in the weeds for two years going over calculations
You can buy a Sol-Ark 15K inverter that will eliminate the need for a dedicated subpanel for dedicated circuits to power if the grid fails just like the Tesla, for $7000.00 before the 30% tax rebate. It will do everything the Tesla inverter will do and more. You can buy 15 KW of battery storage with EG4 LiF3PO4 batteries for $4500.00 before the tax rebate. You can buy 10 KW of panels for around $6000 - and these panels carry a full 25-year warranty. So your total material cost would be $7000 +$4500 +$6000 + $2500 for branch wiring and shut down panel = $20,000 before rebate. That becomes $14,000 total after rebate because there is no sales tax on solar in many states.
Your installation cost for a roof-mounted system would be approximately $7000.00 before the rebate, but you could save most of that if you installed the system yourself. Permit costs run around $500 - $1000 for plans and fees before the tax rebate. So your TOTAL labor and permit fees would be ($7000.00 + $1000.00) - 30% = $5600.00 after rebate.
Your TOTAL cost for this system, which has more capacity than the Tesla system and more automation functions, would be $14,000 + $5600 = $19,600.00. Because it connects to the internet, you can monitor and set parameters for this system from your laptop. This system will easily power an entire 2500 SF house off-grid if the grid power fails. It will switch automatically to off-grid mode if it detects a power outage.
The EG4 batteries will last approximately 20 years, the Sol-Ark 15K is warrantied for 10 years but should easily last 15 years, and the panels are warrantied for 25 years. The only difference with this system is that if something goes wrong, you will have to diagnose it and fix it yourself. But you can hire an electrician familiar with solar to diagnose and repair it for around $1000 - $2000 because there are no material costs involved.
The Enphase and Tesla systems are very good systems, but they cost approximately twice as much as the system I describe and they are no better.
The Tesla Powerwall is a little less than the sol-ark and eg4 batteries you listed when you combine both together so I’m not sure what you mean by the Tesla system is twice as expensive. It sounds like it’s coming in pretty much at the same price and you don’t need to a combo of different equipment.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting I provided the numbers for my estimate. Correct me if I am mistaken, but the final cost for the Tesla system you spec'd was approximately $32K AFTER tax rebates. The system I spec'd is roughly 20K after rebates. I am talking about the 10 KW system you priced.
There's nothing wrong with either of the systems you priced. Enphase and Tesla probably are the two best solar providers available. However you pay anywhere from 33% - 70% more for their systems. Again, I could be wrong, but that is what I have seen when I checked their pricing.
When you are buying a Tesla or Enphase solar panel system with battery backup, you are essentially buying a "name brand" solar system. It is convenient and they take care of everything. But they charge you a lot for that convenience.
The other problem with Enphase and Tesla is that you have to jump through hoops to go off-grid. This may have changed, but for a long time, you couldn't go off-grid with the Tesla PW II.
The Sol-Ark 15K will run your house directly off of the solar panels with no batteries if necessary. It is a hybrid system that is designed to work on or off-grid. It will also accept 19 KW of solar panels and the solar panels don't have to be the same wattage. It provides beautiful graphics to track your system like Tesla and Enphase do, but with the Sol-Ark system, you can set it up how YOU want your solar system to run. Not so much with Tesla and Enphase.
For example, you can configure an automatic connection to a generator if the grid goes down and your batteries are low.
You can use non-proprietary LiFePO4 batteries with the Sol-Ark and I think you can use two different banks of batteries if memory serves. There are several 5KW batteries that are around $1250.00 that are LiFePO4 batteries that will probably last 20 years and they cost a third of what a Tesla PW III costs. A LOT of people are using them and they have very good reviews.
The Sol-Ark 15K will output a true 200 amp power service and it has a 200 amp panel built into it.
If a person does not understand solar and will require their solar installers to set up and maintain their system, then Enphase and Tesla are the best choices. But if you have some DIY experience, you can save quite a bit by installing your part or all of your own system and it will actually give your more customization choices and control of your system than Tesla or Enphase systems.
@@franklong6269 all of my pricing includes professional installation including permits, plans, and everything else required. I’m not just talking the price to buy the equipment
@@Superiorsolarconsulting You need to read more carefuly. I included $7000..00 to install the system and $2,500 for permit plans, permitting and ancillary items like branch wiring.
You can always find a cheaper product. I’m pricing out REC alpha series and Maxeon in my example. You can get 10kW of solar panels for half the price you stated if you don’t care about quality. You need to ask yourself, “why is the EG4 battery priced the way it is?” “Why do no contractors want to install it?”
If you’re buying a system straight at cost and paying bare bones for installation I see how it could be possible to achieve those numbers. The problem is that no contractors want to show up and install your equipment for a few grand. It’s not sustainable for them and puts massive strain on crews as they have to install a bunch of different products. If I knew if a company that would just show up and install your equipment I’d have tons of business, but it’s not how this industry works. You will not find a truly stable company doing work like that. This is a system geared towards DIY installs which is .1% of the population. Most professionals can’t afford to put the time aside to mess with installing their own system anyways due to opportunity cost of missing out on making money at their own job. Professionals hire other professionals.
I am shocked to see the cost of systems in the USA, compared to Europe. I have lived in the USA so I know most things are less expensive than in Europe. Here in the UK I paid the equivalent of about $13.5k for a 4.75kw 12 panel system with 10kwh battery, bybrid inverter and complete installation cost. This is about half the price in the USA. There are no tax benefits either in the UK. Why are your systems so expensive ?
I guess it’s just a different market with a different economy. Not sure to be honest but these prices are very good if a quality company is doing the install
We need Theselius to Scandinavian asap.
Just got approved for a 24.3kW system from Tesla with 4 PW3, financing for 7.99% (still too high, but less than the 9% you mentioned). Plan to refinance it hopefully if/when rates drop. This is in NJ so they allow trading the SREC rights for up front $16038 to be used as down payment incentive.
Watch out for the dealer’s fees .
They'd have to be in the purchase agreement right? @@Orangedocfamilymedic
you can spend 50k to 'save on power' 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@jebes909090 called an investment. And financed, even with the high rate, is less per month than the electricity bill it will replace. It will pay for itself in 15 years and then start netting positive return for me around +$50k over the usable life of the hardware. So more like spend $50k now to make that back + additional $50k later.
How does it compare to the Franklin wh ?
Less expensive, better power rating. Franklin is AC coupled and compatible with everything while PW3 is DC coupled and is only compatible with their MCI’s on the roof. Franklin is a great product for retrofits
@@Superiorsolarconsulting thank you! I am getting a new system of 29 panels, solar edge inverter and 3 Franklin batteries. Looking forward to it.
@@user-hq8gq9qy4r if you aren’t too far in I’d cancel for either Enphase or the new Tesla Powerwall 3 system
@@Superiorsolarconsulting Doesn't PW3 have an AC version? We are retrofitting an (E) SolarEdge system with PW3 for storage purposes and the PO has the PW3 listed as AC version.
@@michaelferketic3540 there has been a software update and can AC couple it now. You do need the gateway and cannot use the meter collar though
Freedom Solar in Texas is quoting fixed 4.99% 25yr loan. Should I be concerned there is something fishy going on? On $60K loan, first 17 payments reduced at $260/month then rest at $370/month. Optionally, your payment will remain at $260 if you make voluntary payment equal to your federal tax credit at 17th month.
The cash price is most like 20-30% lower than that if you’re being quoted a 4.99%. That’s about a 4-6% buydown
I clicked the video, because he had a whiteboard
Raw LfP cells have reduced in price dramatically this year
Folks forget that power will continue to get more expensive from the utilities every year so try to consider the system as a 10 or 20year hedge against inflation.
Exactly
Ah but you forget that if you invested that money instead in even relatively poorly performing funds, they will far out pace your savings on electricity and compound on themselves every year so gets better each year. Unless your power is really expensive you are better off just investing it.
It would be a better battery if you could customize AC vs DC.
The AC version is coming
@@Superiorsolarconsultingis the AC version an actual hardware update?
The cost in the US is just so high for solar and/or batteries compared to the rest of the world. In Australia, I have a 13.2kw solar system installed about 5 years ago which cost $8,000 ($5,206 US). I've just ordered a franklin battery system fully installed for $7,000 ($4,555 US). Those costs are after rebates which are currently about $7,000 ($4,555 US) collectively. To be clear, thats a total cost installed of $13,000 ($8,459 US). If i buy the same solar system today, I'd save about a $1,000 of what i paid back then, despite the rebates slowly going down.
In anycase, that was a very informative video, but I still don't understand the high costs with the actual products in such a large market as the US.
The industry has become commoditized in Australia
@@Superiorsolarconsulting indeed. Though I don't think Australia is alone here, as prices are also much cheaper in Europe. For Australia, the Australian federal government aggressively provided rebate incentives starting back in 2011, slowly stepping back rebates each year thereafter. The result was substantially reduced costs, and the market widened, bringing down costs overall. Today, I can see advertisements for a 6.6kw system for under $3,000 (after rebates which are much less than before). We also have very little red tape, and i can install a new system within a week or 2 of making an enquiry. The US also has rebates, but they don't seem to have had the same dramatic effects - red tape, electricity still cheap in various areas, etc... I don't know, because i don't understand the huge disparity in prices.
We have no federal rebates for batteries, but states have just started introducing them. Hopefully this will help with the battery market - until now, economically, they didn't make any sense, but we had a major increase in power prices (around 50% across the nation over a year ago). This is why I finally decided to jump in. We have so much solar on our roof tops, some power companies offer free electricity on some plans from 11am to 2pm - which i definitely take advantage of.
The end result is with an 2 EV's, a pool pump running 8 hours a day, and an electric water heater, once the battery is installed I will have no power bill, no petrol bill, and this should hold year round.
I like your videos by the way. Please keep them coming.
In the US at least, everything is so complicated and everyone is out to make a profit off you that it actually helps to have an honest person take you through the process. While everyone is a salesperson, some of us are selling BS and others are guiding through the process more like a real estate agent. That’s how I like to think about it at least
It's the federal rebate that causes it. It was meant to bring the cost down, but the reality is the installers just raised the prices by a third and are skimming all that money off. They are making ridiculous margins. I have had quotes and more than 2/3 is "labor". I am sorry you want me to pay 20K for two days of labor for a crew of three? Robbery.
@@court2379 The federal rebate in Australia had the opposite effect, prices came right down because of the high amount of competition. prices have come down so much, i get text advertisement for 6.6kw systems for under $3,000 (Au). We now have so much solar on roof tops, between 11:00am and 2:00pm electricity on my current plan now free... out side of this time, it's still quite expensive.
So Tesla is undercutting the market on installation costs. Largely by reducing the amount of components to be installed. But what about the (expected) lifetime cost of the whole system?
With the inverters built into the battery. And these likely failing first. Are we expecting Tesla to provide the replacement parts at similarly competitive prices, compared to replacing a stand alone inverter? Or better yet: can the built-in inverter be bypassed to be replaced by a separate unit when the need arises?
I, myself, would probably be willing to invest a bit more upfront in order to escape the 30 year total vendor lock-in that comes with this proposal.
According to Tesla, just the inverter is going to be replaceable without having to replace the whole battery. I think it’ll be around $2500 out of pocket if it’s not in the warranty period
Julian, like always… major props to you.
One small correction- meter collars have been around and approved for several years.
My favorite thus far is ConnectDER.
I personally know that Tesla has quietly been pushing hard on utilities in major solar areas to have utilities approve meter collars.
Tesla has been a huge player in really advanced the meter collar cause.
Good on you Brother!!
Never heard of them since early last year
Very few utilities nationwide allow use of meter collars at this time.
@@gregcollins3404 they’re coming in battery heavy markets
I really don’t understand the hype behind the PW3. The only big deal is it makes it easier to install. Otherwise, the PW3 does not have full home backup capabilities and capacity is still
The same as PW2. Franklin battery which came out several years ago is a far better battery. I love mine!
It is a huge cost savings over the Franklin system if in a utility that has the meter collar approved. It can do full home backup as well. The Franklin is a great battery I still actively sell today
i get my own system same but $4600 not $46000 hahaha
$4600 for what?
tesla has also micro inverters on the back of each solar panel.
They do not. They use a centralized hybrid inverter in the powerwall3. You can have a micro-inverting system with a Powerwall but it’s not Tesla’s product. It’s Enphase’s most likely
@@Superiorsolarconsulting I have a tesla installed solar panel and inverter. each solar panel has a power conditioner that keeps the inverter input voltage at nominal ranges and that way achieves the same efficiency as another sunpower system I have on a south side facing 4KW set of panels. That's the equivalent or better than micro-inverters on each panel as that is more prone to fail.
One thing you are forgetting.. Tesla 3 isnt compatible with Power Optimizers.. any shading will have a huge impact on production when used with string.
We’ll see how these 6 mppts handle shading…
buy directly from Tesla the system and installation and the interest rates are lower than stated here by 2% last time I checked.
If you are seeing any interest rates under 8% they are being artificially bought down, which means that your price point is actually much higher than what the real cash prices because the bank is taking the difference off the top. And interest rate cannot be less than the federal funds rate which is currently 5 1/2%.
0.40 cents? We pay .50 😡.
Looking on going solar + battery.
Need to redo the roof first.
Call or text me. We can do roofing as well as the solar. 760-473-5878
Where do you do solar at?
I have a huge network of installers and contractors all around the country so the company I work with differs depending on your location. I am very strict about who I choose to work with to ensure good quality. @@83justinbrandt
EcoFlow Ultra vs PW3.........the Ultrais more expandable and cheaper and is DIY without the red tape.......do a comparison on the ULTRA and PW3 it will surprise u.
.1% of people are interested in a DIY job and no serious contractors I know will install ecoflow. It’s not thought of as very high quality amongst the multiple electricians I work with on a daily basis.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting perfect feedback thks.
EcoFlow is a very good product for what it’s made for. Emergency power or camping or construction. Way too expensive for regular home power.
Be very skeptical about going solar these days since over 100 companies have gone bankrupt this year. I’ve had (8) different solar companies here in Texas price systems to power a 2300 sqft house with battery backup and the cost was anywhere from $70,000 to $100,000, not to mention the government having their sleazy controlling hands in the middle of it all potentially telling you what you can and can’t do with your own property. Solar still has a long way to go (at least here in Texas) IMO to be financially viable for the average Joe…
Let’s see what we can do. That seems like a lot of money unless it’s a giant system. Text me and worst case scenario is you can confirm that it really should cost around the pricing that you’ve been given. Text me or call. 760-473-5878.
Go solar with Sunnova at 4-4.5% APR!!!
Well, with a huge fee added on
The secret is LFP from BYD or CALT, that is how Tesla is making money aside for integration.
like you say solar sales they not talking about how you can make money from it
no they like to sell put it on the bank and from the interes you can pay your energy bill.
My friend got 6.99% for 25 years from dividend finance
Yes that’s very feasible. It would come with a buy down fee
I didn't realize people still drank Pernod Ricard.
😂 I think that bottle has been on display for 5+ years
@@Superiorsolarconsulting 😂😂😂
I just got a solar loan of 20 panels and 1 PW3. $38,500 after taxes and installation. My rate came in at 8.25% with no fees at 10 years.
Sounds about right
I don't think Enphase vs Tesla is the best comparison. Microinverters have their advantages, which makes their high cost worthwhile in certain situations. Since Tesla doesn't have microinverters, their system should generate less power in a situation where microinverters make sense. Better compare the Tesla with a more similar (cheaper) system.
There are the two most popular options for residential use case so I thought they would be a good comparison. Most people really don’t know even the elementary differences between the two.
Tesla 15 year solar loan is 7.99%
Yup exactly in line with a true interest rate
Why won’t you do business in Missouri?
Just haven’t built out my network there yet
@@Superiorsolarconsulting do you know anyone in the Springfield MO area you would recommend to install Tesla Power wall? Im getting ready to build a new house and want everything incorporated from the start
Green light solar finances at 2.9%
The fee to get down to a 2.9% is probably upwards of 35-40% of the actual cash price. This means that if the cash price is $30k, the amount you’d have to finance would be closer to 40-45k and the bank would take the difference as a fee. You can’t get a loan for less than the federal funds rate which is 5-5.5 percent currently. Anything lower has hidden buydown fees
Pocketing $15K lol, how exactly are you pulling that off? Folks think about it, if it’s a tax credit and you don’t get a check from the government ; then where is that 15K coming from? Try out of your own pocket! They want to charge you on the front end and then rip you off the 15K on the back end.
I have another video on how the tax credit works. It’s dollar for dollar against your federal tax liability. Unless you’re retired you should be getting the tax credit. It may take a few years for some people to get but it’s not a use it or lose it. It rolls over
@@Superiorsolarconsulting my question to you is the solar companies want you to turn over the tax rebate to them within 18 months. If as you say (and I agree) it’s against your tax liability (again no check from the government) , then where does the money come from to give the solar company? We are talking about the 30% tax credit, how do people pay you when they get a credit, not a rebate. The money has to come from somewhere.
@@dwsnwll you’re thinking of the financing companies giving you 18 months to pay down the tax credit in order to keep the lower pre-reamortized payment they do to help people with the cash flow while they wait for the tax credit to come
@@Superiorsolarconsulting I am, but the difference is normally around a $100 a month. Using your 15K Example they would fork over $833 a month for 18 months just to save 100 a month for the next 18 years. Aside from that I do enjoy your videos.
@@dwsnwll everybody’s tax situation is different. I know tons of people who make larger than a 30% payment because they want to pay the system off early and avoid interest. For some it could make sense to pocket the cash and take a higher payment. Everyone is different and you have the choice. That’s why I have both payment options.
meh, I bought two 5p batteries for $2700 each and will add it to my diy 8kw solar. Doing everything for under $1 a watt.
You can’t commission the system if you’re not a certified Enphase installer. You will not be able to turn them on. You cannot DIY Enphase batteries
@@Superiorsolarconsulting That's the beauty of enphase. Free enphase university training to install/expand/help other people with their system. If there's something wrong with mine, I can diagnose it myself.
@@damonf9475right… those are benefits you listed. Enphase batteries cannot be turned on/commissioned/activated unless you’re a certified installer. The installer app won’t let you finish the process unless you’re in the database.
The costs of the systems you mentioned are extremly high compare to Holland. For example the T3 costs 24K net. My calculation:
Investing $24.000
Capacity battery 13,5Kwh
RTE efficiency -15% (0,85%)
Cycle 6000
13,5x0,85 = 11,48 Kwh
Total 6000 x 11,48 Kwh = 68880 total Kwh produced before breakdown
Costs per KWh 24.410 / 68880 = $0,355 per KWh
That's the price if you can refill your battery with solar every day of the year. If that's not the case your have a whole new calculation.
I will buy some of alibaba
We cannot compare the costs of projects in other countries. These figures are for the US.
Spend half the money of these by buying LiPO rack-mount batteries. Lots of manufacturers now.
It only works if you’re needing to buy a lot of kilowatt hour capacity. When you compare the cost of building a battery yourself, it doesn’t really get to incentivizing until after 20 kWh and half the DIY guys that I’ve spoken to have totally mis-size their batteries and they may have a lot of kilowatt hour capacity on paper, but they don’t have the solar to ever fill it and so it’s just going to sit there empty.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting I get your point, but isn't the per kilowatt hour cost much lower with the rack mount batteries any way you slice it? The 5.1 kilowatt hour rack mount I paid $1500 for is now down to 1300
@@AndreAngelantoni the cheapest I’ve seen is around $3500 for 14kwh of storage. It’s not less because you need the inverter and BMS still even if you just want the one battery which the powerwall 3 has built in. You only start to save as you start to stack multiple batteries with the same single inverter and BMS. Even on the Signature solar website the EG4 battery and inverter combo is $8200. That’s only about $800 cheaper than the Powerwall 3 and you can’t have full home backup with the meter collar like the pw3 can do (in some utilities) and so you’re actually more expensive with a DIY battery u less you use scale to your advantage. If you stack 4 of those batteries with one inverter it’ll be way cheaper than 4 powerwalls but with the 4 powerwalls you’re getting 4 inverters and the software. Also, when you use the Powerwall you save on the solar aspect because you aren’t needing optimizers or micros like you would potentially be using with some of these other batteries.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting got it. Thank you for walking through it
why would you not pay the electric bill and take that 40to 60 K and invest in treasury notes? your return on investment would be more than net savings on the system your trying to sell. Getting your investment back does note equate to making a profit. Telling someone they are saving on an energy bill while spending three times their bill is not a good investment. If it were true the customers would be lined up around the block. This of coarse does not take into account non warranty expenses I noticed you did not mention. I would also point out loosing 30% of your ability to produce is not acceptable if you are looking to save money. I am saying if you want to spend more money on your energy by this system.
Depending on what market you’re in, payback periods could be as low as 5 years. That’s the equivalent to a 20% ROI. A 10 year payback is 10% ROI. Where are you going to get that in treasury notes? What would you say to the person that is looking for monthly savings right now and doesn’t have the money to pay their bill and then also come up with extra to invest on top of that? What if someone can just eliminate a certain amount of money off their monthly expenditure immediately? That doesn’t make sense to you?
The system I’m working on getting installed will give me an annual return on my cash of about 12% in saved energy bills in year 1. As inflation continues that return will only improve. Its hard to find an investment with a guaranteed 12%+ rate of return for the next 25 years!
Tesla has dropped their prices on cars by quite a bit, so saying they increase in cost isn’t accurate.
Hi Julian. I didn't know that in the USA you are in tweNNy-tweNNy-four.... if you really waNNed to or not. Good luck.
lol what?
@@Superiorsolarconsulting
...uot e nouv
Tesla still more capacity for less money and the amount of space is ridiculously less than Enphase. Enphase are just greedy at this point.
Enphase is the best but money is a huge factor!!!
It is not financially viable when electricity is on average 16c per kWh.
It depends. If you are in a place with good net metering and just need solar, you can get your levelized cost of energy under $.10 per kilowatt hour so it could still make sense depending upon your situation situation.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting my point is more about the initial cost and payback time. It is not financially viable.
Batteries are only viable where there is no grid.
I'm happy to go into more detail like interest, possibility of moving house, replacing or maintenance costs, just to name a few.
@@Joanddave well of course. It depends where you are. In California we are paying about $.45 on average with peak rates as high as $.82/kwh this summer
@Superiorsolarconsulting first, that is shocking. Having said that, are you able to give a financial statement showing actual set up costs, maintenance costs, replacement cost and interest versus actual savings to support your claim.
It's one thing to make a claim and quite another to back it up with details.
Donald Trump does it constantly.
It's crazy to me some people consume enough electricity to actually drop $50k+ on a solar system (at 9% interest at that!), and it might actually make sense to do so!
So many people pay $1,000+ per month in bills. It texas we will pay more even just to pay for something that is ours and not someonelses :D
Southern California is paying north of 40 cents on average right now per kWh
Crazy expensive batteries and noisy micro-inverters. I hope you don’t have WiFi or god forbid a HAM within a half mile.
Noisy micros? They’re silent
@@Superiorsolarconsulting My spectrum analyzer disagrees.
@@awksedgreep I’ve never heard a micro inverter make noise nor had a single person ever say they heard their system in 8 years
@@Superiorsolarconsulting It’s a huge problem for hams, but maybe yours are well shielded.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting perhaps I just inadvertently made your point for you. Buy quality gear and experience less noise. I don’t know what brand my neighbor was running, but they were incredibly noisy.
Tesla should finance all their products 0 % interest
Tell Elon! 😂
What happens to this model when california institutes their “income based flat rate”? Or some other form of scheme to bend us all over to appease the utility overlords
It’s all unknown. Nothing has passed yet
I love the concept of Solar but I chose a different path. I live in Pennsylvania and have an all electric home that uses $1500.00 a year. While I would be open to adding solar I would need to limit my out of pocket expense to $10,000 and reduce my electric cost to $500.00 which isn’t feasible. For this reason I have never believed that home solar should be subsidized in any way, rather the money would be better spent on large scale renewable projects and modernization of the grid, adding energy storage. The one thing that makes sense at each home is letting the grid control some non critical loads to keep peak demand lower. If individual households have the means to install solar and batteries it should be viewed the same as when someone chooses a backup generator.
These Tesla fanboys never seize to amaze me. Stop wasting your money on expensive Tesla tech. Tesla doesn't save you money.
If you’ve ever watched a video of mine, you’d know I’ve never really liked what Tesla had to offer. I still don’t think it’s better than Enphase. But for 25% less, which it is currently, it’s hard to deny. Are you in the solar space and know the pricing well?
My Tesla has saved me probably 8k at this point so idk what you are on about do you even math? As to this power system idk I've done smaller solar setups 48v 600ah with 8 380w panels was like 6k so in equipment I could probably do it myself cheaper 🤷🏻♂️
Bla bla bla Tesla Crap
lol expand on that
@@Superiorsolarconsulting bla. La. La bla.bla. bla bla crap bla bla
@@CKPill so you’re not a Tesla fan?
@Superiorsolarconsulting way too much hype. i am firmly for better emissions, i just do no think straight battery was best use of limited mineral supplies. Any hybrid is better than a coal plant used to generate electricity. The the stock price will come to reality and Musk is a douchebag.
Enphase inverters are horrible. String inverters that fail.
Enphase uses microinverters, not string inverters.
Huh?
Enphase doesn't make string inverters.