Cognitive Functions - Ne vs Ni
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- čas přidán 6. 07. 2024
- #16personalities #extravertedintuition #introvertedintuition
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I feel like I should say something intelligent, but that stray piece of hair is driving me nuts and I don't even have OCD.
I really should have something intelligent to say, given I've been reading a lot about AI, recognition, and adaptation.
But no, still hair.
Try living with it attached to your head...
*stares into the abyss*
@@NathanJGlass ikr ~INTJ
I had not even noticed!
Lmfaooo
I have OCD and it doesn't bother Me
I have an ENTP and an INFJ teacher right now and when I write them essays they give me the opposite comments. ENTP’s always like “can you expand more on this and try to explain it more?” Whereas the INFJ is always like “can you try to make this more concise?”
so basically:
N = thinking in ideas
S = thinking in facts
Ne = branching off from one premise, leading to many possibilities and desiring this freedom and maximization
Ni = breaking down many points into a core concept, desiring direction and control
You were able to say in 6 sentences what I struggled to say in 6 paragraphs.
Despite all the “me, an INXJ” comments, I feel like you’re the first actual Ni savior I’ve come across. Just a guess, could be wrong (I’m Se savior, so my conclusions are often incorrect), but I think you absolutely fit the Ni display here.
TL;DR
You know, as someone with auxiliary Ne, branching off into many different points can happen but it’s really a lot more apparent to those that observe.
To me, I was focused on the same singular point from the very beginning but to others, Ive gone on a tangent lol.
Basically, we start at square one and I “root” that however many times branching off into similar ideas or situations still with that same square one premise in mind.
It’s make it incredibly difficult to just say something directly as I’ve typed a whole bunch just now lol.
that's interesting. i'm actually also an Ne aux, and i relate so hard to the tangent thing. to others, i keep rambling from one point to another and get lost, but usually i know what i'm talking about. i just keep branching off in conversation without even realizing it. typing this reply feels comment feels weird with that in mind tbh
and yeah, i feel like a lot of INxJs in the comments are mistyped,,, especially if their comments are messy and go off topqic. non-Ni users tend find Ni doms to be really High IQ Enlightened Big Brain, and then lots of INFJs turn out to be INFPs too. i'm actually an INFP but i guess i dont talk like one when discussing MBTI xd
I don't think the ISFP (USUALLY) feels in facts unless I am misunderstanding something
there's no facts in infinity, just systems that predictably apply to familiar scenarios, per the observer newton and his posse were right and so are the quantum physicists. you have to have a laaaaaarrrrggggee data set (infinite) to know which laws apply to determine facts (which implies zero error)
This is probably the best discussion I've seen on the intuitive functions.
Ne
@@blitz19113 Oxi
I agree. Nathan gave the best description I have ever heard of Ni and Ne.
As an INTJ, I can say that my frustration with humanity abated a bit when I learned about MBTI. I finally understood that not everybody thinks like me, or even has the capacity to. However, I'm not even sure that people who don't have Ni could even conceptualize what it's like. This video is the best I've seen in accomplishing that, in its comparison to Ne.
Seriously agree. How these insights can occur to him is truly brilliant
I’m Ni dominant (INTJ) and my spouse is Ne dominant (ENFP) and the core of so many of our disagreements is me wanting them to just make a choice, even if it’s a bad one. As a result they often get stuck in what we have shortened to “too many options/choices,” when I ask what she wants us to do. I’ve adapted either saying “here are two choices, pick one” or “I’ll check back in 15 minutes to see what you think.” It’s literally the only way we’ve managed to get around her indecision and my need for a path forward ASAP. It helps with chores, where to go for a weekend away, what to eat for dinner, etc. This video did a great job of explaining WHY that helps which I didn’t envision as a possibility.
May I add something? Ni basically sees things as a concept. It doesn’t matter what we are talking about. It could be knowledge, age, beauty,… It starts by gathering as much information as possible, building broader awareness, to later narrow it down depending on who one is talking to. Or, to put it differently: We live in a world obsessed with objectivity, yet people often don’t realize that they are bending it to suit their subjective view. Ni needs that narrowing down in order to distinguish between the root cause, and what was added as a meaning by the person they are talking with.
I'm an INFJ and my boss has me seeing a "job coach" at the mo. He said to me, "Ian the last thing you need is more information, you know enough to just get on with it." A weird piece of feedback I never thought I'd hear. But since hearing it I've become aware of these rabbit holes of learning I jump into with each new challenge and man it is hard to no go there. My brain craves that information cram before it I can decide on the best path.
@@ianlacey I think that for an INFJ is really hard to just settle with things as they are, or do as they have been told to do without questioning things. I still struggle with this.
@@solarisan_ maybe you can separate understanding on levels? like level 1 is shallow reasoning and micro-decisions whilst for example level 5 are those concepts like death, worldviews, or major, major life decisions. Anyway, you can just delay learning but never forget that learning and thinking through things is a strength when used with balance and used at the right time. Take all of this with a grain of salt and take away what you will :)
@@acedupspade Oh, absolutely. It does contain the levels you were referring to. That is exactly why Ni needs the narrowing down. Depending on who one is talking to, the said level will get to be ‘activated’.
@@solarisan_ Thanks for sharing! I'm going to ponder on your comment for quite some time I presume as it is so insightful.
As an INTP, I have Ni as my critic function, as do INFPs. Given how enjoyable your PoLR functions video was, your take on how the critic functions tend to manifest/exemplify themselves in the types would be much appreciated.
Please, critic functions (at least for what I have seen) have a lot of impact in people's personality but are usually just ignored. I would love to hear Nate's take on them.
Thank you for this comment. You just gave me some insight into some of conversation between myself and my INTP husband. I don’t know how I never thought about where his Ni fell in the stack.
Yes, as an INFP, unpracticed Ni is probably what drives me to settle major life decisions through the quickest process of elimination I can manage. The thought of not having a clue where I'm going actually terrifies me. I use my self-doubt to eliminate possibilities and feel more stable in a limiting way.
@Ron Alansalon this is exactly how it plays out, which I typically attributed it to my Ne as well as the Ti need to forever be a "detached observer".
@Ron Alansalon I saw an INXP once describing it like this:
Aux Ne: I have all of these ideas!
Ni: But they all suck!
This was a superb explanation. I am tired seeing within the community when Ni is described as prophetic and Ne as sporadic and clumsy. As an INFJ, my Ni does provide me with the ability to make random insights other people don’t necessarily see, yet I would hardly describe it as prophetic.
This video helped me become confident in knowing Ni is my dominant function because I have been described as too narrow in my approach to things (I consider many options, yet stick to one way to achieve a goal) and have been pointed out as reluctant to embrace unplanned events.
Soo true!! I always thought it was a bit of an exaggeration whenever people described Ni as most complicated and mysterious function and prophetic. Like, it's not, they just overcomplicate it.
Ni is just more about evaluating the best course of action and finding patterns which will conclude the possible outcome/consequences. That's why I love Nathan's videos alot, he gets to the point and provide accurate explanation. He's really brilliant. ~INFJ
@@shikhasuman871 I was a bit disappointed when I read Jung's psychological types, as the introverted intuitive description is very short and insufficient. Maybe it's one of the reasons people tend to mysterize(?) this function.
@@alexeysaranchev6118 Who knows! Maybe that could be the one of the reasons...
@@alexeysaranchev6118 Maybe that's because Jung used Ne/Si and just wasn't familiar enough with Ni.
World Wide Web makes Ni look so mystical and prophetic that it took me months to type my INFJ husband. (Him being a walking ENFP stereotype also doesn't help 🤦♀️ It's the jokes, the jokes are too much 😂)
I actually had to type him using his three other functions, and then I narrowed it down to ENFJ vs INFJ. And even now, compared to the descriptions online, he seems too normal to be a Ni dom. Maybe the jokes are what's mystical about him.
As an Ni first (intj) first time I saw entp go through a million Ne ideas it was confusing. I said to myself... "why does he have sooo many ideas on how to do things??" I at best come up with a plan 1 and 2 lol. I'd annoyingly called him ideaman but then I realized the entps value to problem solve! INTJ as the Ni dom points the way forward and the ENTP problem-solving skills solves issues as the come up till we get to our goal. It's an amazing pairing! Sometimes problems are serious and ENTP solves it fast by going through the options and Fe talking to people and massaging them through the difficult times. But the ENTP told me they cannot see very far where the ship is headed and need me, the INTJ Ni, to always point the way forward like a beacon and Te explain concepts to people. It's very fun pairing, I recommend! 😀
As an ENTP, I relate to this and I'm sorry 😂 I don't think I know any INTJ in real life, but the online experiences I have with them (youtube or personality database) are always amazing. You guys make me focus, which I have to say feels like magic 😂 And you explain things SO well. I learned more with INTJ CZcamsrs in days than I learned in weeks before finding them.
@@haeun7180 Glad you like us ;) We can be hard to wedge out of our houses lol. You can probably find us as work. We're always the guy or gal with the plans! And Yes, I do think we naturally help you focus.... its thst Ni trying to collapse possibilities into executions and getting things done!
very cool! I have dated both ENTP and INTJ (I'm ISTP). I'm too tired to think today but I'm interested in how my Ti, Se, Ni all blend together in terms of direction and narrowing down etc. Different phases in my life I have become very cautious and controlled and at other times very in the moment and taking risks and exploring many new things! Dang! I guess maybe I will figure out the middle ground and not go to either extreme? fingers crossed lol
@@haeun7180 해운
@@ADeeSHUPA idk if u were trying to spell my nickname in hangul, but it's 하은 😊
4:15
Ne: branches outwords, likes multiple options to be open
Ni: likes to narrow down options
Also Ne likes to break up information into little pieces and spread it everywhere and share it around the world, Ni likes to stash their information for themselves deep inside and personalise it for their own use.
Ni will often take in information and think “is what I WANT?” (infj and enfj) this what I NEED (entj and intj), and get hunches to give them insight because they are 100% certain of their judgements and know what they don’t want and what they di want, what they need and what they don’t need.
Ne will take in their and not keep it for themselves but share it because they find deep connections in the outer world about external subjects.
Ni are good at finding the root core or the common denominator between the connections but Ne are good at finding the connections between one root
@@YourMom-iy6cv that sounds the other way around. As Ne has Si and Ni has Se. Can you give an example to better clarify your observation?
@@tigress1girl That's the whole complexity of it since I believe Ni users base their personal intuition upon Se data points so objective ones to balance things out. That's why Ni users are normal functional human beings and not just weird people who give you insights from nowhere but from the observation of objective reality when I believe Ne users' little pieces of datas are taken from their Si so their personal past experiences to bring up new ideas in all directions from all their personal sensory experiences. It always balances things out.
@@YourMom-iy6cv This is a bit more complex because INxJs have either Fe or Te auxiliary, not Fi or Ti. So it's more like "is what WE WANT?" (for infj and enfj) and this what WE NEED (entj and intj). Then they get hunches and insights to be 100% certain of their judgement. These types are way less personal than you think in their reflexion. Ni alone is mostly about finding the best outcome according to all the parameters. I think it's more that Ne will find deep connections in the outer world about personal subjects actually.
Top down vs bottom up
"adding more work for themselves until it becomes overwhelming" i'm literally watching this video right now because i've exhausted myself after "leveling up" this creative project too many times before the deadline. i almost wish it was here so i'd just have to submit it as it is!!!!
I have a friend who is an ESTP and even though she has no idea of 16 personalities I talked to her a bit about her own personality and mine(i'm an ENFP) and she could actually understand without even knowing how other ESTP people from movies and she could even spot some ENFPs. But the ESTP guesses were so accurate, it was unreal.
One ESTP friend also could understand very well all about MBTI when I explained him. I think it's Ti-Fe. Also all the ESTPs I know well do analogies to explain what they want to say as I do. I'm ENTP.
@A.R.K well, that friend was my ex and he has 30 years old,and after some days he got very bored about it, but I have another friend ESTP that is 53 years old and he understood more or less it, but he had 0 interest in it 🤣 but I thought it was more because the age.
@@Lizzzi86 I have tried to make my ESTP (and, back in the day, an ISTP) friend to learn the basics of it but she always stops at her test results and can't force herself to study what it all means, what CFs are and isn't curious about MY type at all (although I was the one pestering them to look into MBTI).
In short, the theory is just a theory and doesn' seem all too "uselful irl" to them.
This is one of the best explanations of Ne and Ni that I've seen so far. Please make more of these function comparison videos!
This is helpful. I am enfp and I've never really understood Ni (intellectually). I can intellectually understand other functions I don't have, even Fe and my demon Se, at least on paper. But Ni is usually described as some ineffable fridge/shower moment where answers appear whole. As Ne, while I do have intuition leaps, I at least am internally aware they result from the constant awareness/scanning of patterns and connections. Ni just always seemed to be unexplained.
I'm an ENFJ (Ni user) and I've seen it somewhere described as taking in information (data) which is factored in to either intentionally or just instinctually calculate the most likely course of action of the object of one's attention. It is skipping over the process and getting to the finish line if you will. In that line of reasoning, it can be described as machine learning wherein it takes in as much information as possible (or use stock information) and use that to create algorithms that will produce results that has an accuracy rate which depends on how much it is honed (if I use the wrong lingo, I apologize as I am not a data expert). It is also a prediction of an outcome based on one's previous observations, insights, experiences, ideas, etc. It makes connections, it connects patterns, it jumps to conclusions, it sometimes creates something out of nothing and often has to really take into account/make use of as much information and research as possible in order to come to that "optimal" and "a-ha!" premise or direction on which Ni is being used for (such as a solution, writing scripts and such, presentations, art, organization, etc.)
For example. When I learn something, I like to connect it to previous knowledge too so that I can "fully assimilate it"; making sense of it and creating that connection so that I could come to an insight/produce an idea that "feels" very right or to be more specific, novel. I like to observe and then see the underlying patterns, continuously calibrating, reflecting, and improving so the next time I can replicate results or implement new methods; a constantly ongoing process.
I love analogies, different ways of thinking and seeing, understanding concepts and teaching it or writing it down, practicing my pieced together ideas, daydreaming, making down lists and structures of thought or ideas, etc. Often when I'm in Ni mode, I'm looking at the sky and trying to piece together something that's very abstract and seemingly "floating" around which writing has helped me put into words with an effective conversion rate (often I just think it is good enough and leave it as it is because Ni is really flighty and become temporarily lost). It's different from thinking that it's focusing on the possibilities and abstraction rather than a step by step and cold, impersonal way of scanning and analyzing. Thinking though is also something I appreciate as it reins in the Ni and makes things practical, useful, and understandable.
I can see a lot of the results in communication, such as when I can make assumptions (not infallible though) about others intentions, deeper meaning, what they mean to say next, and what they will say next - it usually is easier if its something I'm more familiar or knowledgeable with or have already introspected and reflected on before. I also am able to sometimes predict stories or movies, such as twists, stereotypes, foreshadowing, unfolding events, character motivations and archetype (if they're a villain or someone who will be an ally etc.) These are just the examples on the top of my head as I am more aware of them, but I'll repeat they are not infallible. They are not also always fun when they take away the excitement of how the story unfolds so I really like original and unpredictable plots that leave me in the dust. Though I don't usually pause to think unless I am watching something philosophical or educational: like if it's a mystery novel, I usually will just keep reading until I reach the point where I feel like I'm onto something like I just picked something up and try to formulate ideas and possibilities from there.
Also, is the way I explained similar to Ne? I actually want him (I have not learned Love Who's name haha) to tackle this topic as I have been always academically inclined (and currently I am a scholar on the cusp of entering college, researching a lot for school and my personal interests) and have probably (somewhat) developed my Ne due to my (probable but still undiagnosed) ADHD and having to compensate for my Ti inferior which makes me very wordy and having to write/think/process a lot in order to get my logic straight, sort out thought loops and plaguing feelings, and be able to get my point across most effectively (and in the past made me perhaps not wanting to be stupid, and in the present maybe both contributes to me somewhat wanting to feel smart and understood as well as my perfectionistic tendencies). Just right now, I'm not even utilizing periods and just keep word bombing. I also like to use a lot of commas, vague meanings, double speak, double entrendes, implications, insinuations, subtlety, non-direct language, open-ended meanings mixed with definitive definitions, rhymes, symbolism, figures of speech, callbacks, originality and not repetition of previous ideas (which has its drawbacks when I have to recall or re-insert something in something like a piece of text or in speaking), among others. So I try to be direct but make space for uncertainty.
Lastly, I have to add that assigning my head as "thinking", my chest as "feeling", and my stomach as "intuition" (but these 3 may appear in any part), is pretty interesting as it actually helps me "sense" how I use these functions. Also, I've realized that intuition is much more "fluid" throughout the body; though I've noticed that in a test if I'm second-guessing if my answer is right, I often try to "sense or feel" it with my gut but if I try to go deeper into my memories and logic it goes up to my head, yet if I'm feeling pressured or some emotion such as excitement or impatience I can sense it with my chest. I wonder if I can dig deeper into this or if its just bullshite... Ni is more of a 'mode', a 'state', a 'process' than anything
p.s. 1. note that I also decide a lot with feelings, ethics, and with other people in mind. My philosophies, thought loops, ideas, and opinions have taken a lot from other people and even just comments on any platform I've been on. Because I want to take into account all relevant or important perspectives and information, especially ingenious ones, so that I will grow, not be blindsided, and be able to speak or advice or make decisions that are of worth and are of righteous value.
p.s. 2. haven't had proper sleep and I am in a dark place so there can be wrongly worded stuff and typos. I also forgot a lot of some things I wanted to say but also overwrote. Maybe I'm just talking out of my own arse here at this point but intuition really just comes and goes, it just appears when I'm onto something I want to make sense or express, and to help me when I'm just thinking. I usually teach and have these uncountable number of notebooks pages/notepad files to capture my ideas so later I won't lose these temporary thoughts I have latched onto or I won't have to make as much effort later into thinking and intuition, merely just revising and adding onto my already listed/written down ideas.
@@acedupspade I was wondering whether or not I should point this out, but it's my impression that both how you describe your use of intuition and your writing style seem a lot more like Ne than Ni. In the way you describe your intuition, it seems a proces you are very actively involved in, while Ni is more of somewhat passive function that works in the background without a person always being very aware of it. This is different from Ne is often more like actively grabbing ideas out of the ether at any moment and actively trying to make sense of them. This is how it is for all introverted and extroverted functions. The extroverted ones are active and introverted more passive. Ne ideas seem to float around and if you do not grab them, you easily forget about them. You need to save them outside of yourself externally, because Ne is external function that does not hold on to things. On the other hand Ni ideas are typically fewer and if anything, it's users typically remember them well as they tend to leave a lot of impression on it's user. Months or years later they can still vividly remember moments they gained insights and perceive them as important points in their life that have high influence on the direction of their life.
The processing of Ni is more related to the subconcious, so often it's user will only get the outcome (the insight) without really even being conciously aware of how they arrived at that conclusion. They often only get the outcome and may not be able to explain why that makes sense to them to other people. Ni in that sense is quite a subjective function. This different from Ne, which is an objective function that looks at external patterns that others could also see and are can actively be involved in the processing of the perceptions (by brainstorming for example). This makes it a lot easier to explain Ne than Ni.
Also, Ni insights are often more slow and things like predicting wat people are going to say right in the moment moment of conversation is often more often seen in Ne/Si users, as Ne is quicker (but less deep). Ne is super quickly and even if you're watching a movie it can not help to quickly guess in which direction it is going based on quick pattern recognition. They even often like to share their perceptions while watching a movie. Ne is quick understanding and usually it presents itself in a lot of ideas about a lot of subjects.
However, most of all your writing style is very clasically Ne/Si, using lots of words and detailed descriptions and lists and using the in parentheses symbols a lot. You could say you writing style is expansive rather than convergent (you even added the Ps1 and Ps2 parts later- again expansive). Also, in the end you write that you do not know if any of this makes sense and such. This is more Ne than Ni, because while it does not automatically mean the ideas of the Ni user do make sense, they often at least themselves feel quite sure they make sense (or else they would typically not say them). So this sort of eternal doubt is more of a Ne/Si thing. Ne is very aware of all perspectives of things and know they will always just have 1 perspective out of the many.
Also, ADHD is also often associated with Ne types, as Ne often relates to high speed perception. It often has this almost nervous (active/rambling) energy too, while Ni often has this very calm (passive) energy.
_PS: I'm also an Ne user and do a lot of things you do almost the same_ ....as you can see..
@@PowerRedBullTypology *writes a whole text on a youtube content*
"I'm an Ne user"
yep hahaha
I haven't read what other people answered but here: Ni is not an eureka function
It's more like you have all these conclusions already built in your head. Half the time when people tell me things my answer is like "yep, i know"
it might be new information, but it's kind of all the same to me (i already expect it, might have thought about it before etc)
@@PowerRedBullTypology I would like to respectfully disagree. Ni is not just an unconcious process. Ti, Fi, and Si are not fully unconcious, so why would Ni be wholly unconscious? Ni is convergent pattern recognition. So you are seeking patters in one instance. It is goal oriented unlike Ne which is divergent pattern recognition, or potential oriented pattern recognition. Paired with Fe, Ni is a genius at predicting storylines and the next phrase a person will say because it is focusing on the patterns of that one person, one storyline, and using Ti to logically predict the outcome. This happens quickly, naturally, so people who may be unaware of MBTI don't know how this happens, but when you have the language of MBTI to explain it, of course you recognize what is happening. Ni is not some ethereal magical dream epiphany, it is convergent pattern recognition.
Regarding this person's writing habits, they are working out their thoughts and directly placing the on paper (probably an expression of Fe or maybe even Te). They also seem young, so they are more uncertain and unfocused in their writing style, this has nothing to do with personality type.
I wanted to comment, because so many people mischaracterize Ni due to lack of understanding, so as an Ni dom, INFJ (before someone tries to say I am not an INFJ, I have spent months learning about the cognitive function to confirm my type) I wanted to comment on this to bring more understanding on the subject. Thanks.
What a great video.
Yes. The idea of having more possibilities is giving me the feeling of freedom.
yes for me it's also a feeling of competence and safety net, like if something doesn't work I can just hop or climb across to another thread of the data tapestry. Like being "clipped in" to multiple ropes on a mountain.
@@rickwrites2612 so true, lost my ability to choose a while ago. :\
I had a really interesting time on a reddit for immersive/maladaptive daydreamers. I was noticing a divide between the people who would have long, in depth daydreams following a clear narrative (and often return where they left off even when taking breaks in the daydreaming), and those who would daydream in in short bursts, in 'snapshots' and scenes. Someone brought up MBTI, and it seemed that there was a very strong correlation between the style of daydreaming and their preference of Ni or Ne. One user put it well, saying that, in daydreaming, Ne is like "and this and this and this" whereas Ni is like "and then and then and then".
Not sure where i was going with this - just thought it was interesting.
Great video and great comparison. IMO it’s Our two data set points are different measurements of experience.
And this is spatial
And then is time
Our two measurements of reality
I've thought about this,as an Ne user my daydreams and dreams doesn't go on with a storyline like i have storyline but i frequently change the concepts and details of it . If I'm listening to a music and imagining that I'm main character I'll frequently change the storyline and details of it in every way possible. I dream a lot at night and i have good memory of them too ,i on average dream 4 different dreams which seem very absurd and unconnected even though they're actually like a loop( i take on one detail of a dream and make another dream out of it and the loop continues) having one long good dream( night dream or daydream) revolving around one concept is soo foreign to me
@@invisibleeye8752 i'm totally with you there! i can have the same general daydream 50+ times, but after imagining the same scene/story more than a couple of times i get bored and change it around or add new things so that i maintain the abstract gist, that same sense of wonder and catharsis, but experience it in completely new ways through an unending slew of new ideas and alterations.
Oh.
So that's why nothing makes sense. And why I can't do the "Oh, me dreams! Imma do this then this and this!" Or wake myself up.
@@invisibleeye8752 ikr. Then I wanna make animatics but I keep changing details and sequences, couple scenes here... oh, now I'm in another fandom! :D
i feel like Ni can be seen in how I go about my interests. for months at a time ill be extremely passionate about one thing and one thing only to the point where it almost consumes me
Yes, but especially if coupled with Ti.
YES! I get so obsessed with some things and research everything about it to the point I feel like that obsession is my entire life
thats ti bae
i relate, do it all the time. once im interested in something thats all i will be talking about for the next month(s), including posting countless times about it on my instagram for all my friends to see
I don't think it has anything to do with Ni actually, probably closer to Ne?
See the problem with online tests is that when they ask options or directions, I(intj) personally would say more options so I myself can do the deductions and choose the best direction.
But that answer would be considered as an extroverted approach.
This is some good stuff
Ni and Ne can be very similar sometimes so this video is something a lot of us needed
Thanks a lot for this, Nathan
"For a high Ni- user, having lots of unresolved or unrealized possibilities start to kind of get stressful"
This resonates with me A LOT.
When I realize that there's a lot more possibilities in doing something when I've already planned a course of action makes me feel stressed out. I know this might be a problem for both Ne and Ni users, but it applies to EVERYTHING for me, even if I haven't already planned what to do apart from reaching the end goal.
At one point I was one of those INxJ flip-floppers and then I realized the possibility of being an xNTP. It stressed me out and made me feel depressed for over a week. I just wanted to know my type already.
Wow that sounds a lot like what I'm going through as well. To add fuel to the fire (don't worry we're in this together), in Socionics the LII/INTj has Ni as their demonstrative function (the lowercase j means that the dominant function is a judging function), which is the equivalent of saying INTPs having Ni as their critical function. This (at least by how Socionics explains it) means the LII can use Ni to almost same extent that an Ni-dom would (let's call it "a strong eye for the overarching themes"), but would constantly keep a distrust of it and would prefer to justify themselves using Ti-Ne instead. It's basically like finding an approximation to the answer that they're looking for. Such an approximation is helpful at first (they help the LII feels more secure with their chosen batch of options, since LIIs are chickens) but ultimately irrelevant to what Ti-Ne actually has to say about what the answer is. Ni-doms (ILI/INTp and IEI/INFp) on the other hand are driven by the visions itself and not by the Ti task of getting things right. They are fine with rough approximations as long as they work well enough for them to progress forward with their visions and may even view the Ti-doms' obsession with finding the absolute final answer as an unnecessary waste of energy.
So, uhh, hope that clarifies (even though it might just have done the opposite). I know many people will say that Socionics and MBTI are fundamentally irreconcilable from each other, but I'm currently of the opinion that if we do it right the 2 systems should actually be describing the same thing.
Also, cool pfp ;)
@Tran Huu Nghia
Ni dom sounds very much like myself. I'm not at all that perfectionistic if I can get to what I'm trying to reach-although there's some exceptions to this-such as getting the best [material or part] I can get for what I am working towards (i.e. a makeover for a room or a shelf with decorations) to keep it functioning well or aesthetically pleasing for many years into the future. Not getting the perfect solution will bum me out but not very much since I'll still be contented with my selection of paths to take.
And about the pfp: thanks, you too :)
Edit: Just recalled a situation that I could possibly relate to the Ni doms in Socionics. I was looking to buy pillows and my mind was a constant burst of "Finding the best pillow is pointless!" and "You'll regret it if you settle for a pillow that's just 'good enough!'" I ended up settling for a pillow that's both 'good enough' and is also 'perfect' somehow. It satisfied both insecurities to say the least. It's comfortable (Ti's problem, I assume) and it works well enough for my intended purpose (Ni's problem)
Edit 2: The problem in the first edit occurs almost always whenever I am to make a decision. I'll go through a few options, find which one works best for what I want to use it for, then be very close to making that decision and then Ti causes me to look for more options which it stresses me out the moment it happens.
FINALLY!!! someone acknowledges how mental health issues affect how these functions present in people
YESSS
Cool! The concept of branching outwards for Ne and inwards for Ni was illuminating! Ty
This was an extremely helpful video and the explanation of feeling more comfortable when things are settled helped me confirm that I an an INFJ because I also like to collect and analyze all the information before drawing conclusions so I thought perhaps I was using Ne and might be an INFP. Having things narrowed down to a single truth is definitely more comfortable for me, so after so many years I can finally say with confidence, I'm an INFJ. Thanks Nathan for the clear explanation and the diagrams are super helpful.
This ^
the differences between INFPs and INFJs are many, but really you should be looking at the IxxP vs IxxJ. IxxJs are controlling and deal with people problems with ease, while IxxPs are more of their own creatures and have problems with social conundrums.
as an INFJ i'm super bad at the physical stuff and for example i can't simply go to the kitchen and cook. I have to have hours of free time and no plans ahead to be able to 'justify it'. INFPs on the other hand will just go and do it. Need to cook a pie? done, just use this recipe. Some chores to do? you might not feel like it, but it's not that big a deal.
I'll be like "nah, tomorrow i'll do it" and that's about what i tell myself everyday. When i can't take it anymore i'll spend a couple hours doing EVERY chore i can. Super imbalanced.
Ni vs Ne is a harder topic, but IxxJ or IxxP should be pretty clear. Feel free to hit me up if u want help
@Ron Alansalon yeah, INFPs are not the best at taking action. That said, when they do, they go get it and enjoy it
i had an INFP roommate that used to bake a lot of stuff. Alternatively she also would spend hours to days in isolation if she needed to 'figure stuff out', whatever that means
Oh yes, please make more! Se vs Si, Te & Ti, etc...
It's was a Ni_ce video 😌
I’d give it a Ni_ne out of 10
Shoulda said NiSe
@@snowfia2212 Ni_ne out of Te_n ?
heh
I can’t with you guys😭😭😭😭
@@Britania-Valonaww cry baby
As an Ni Dom I enjoy games with a huge number of possibilities/skills/talents/customisability ...not because I like to explore everything that's possible ....
But to figure out the Perfect Golden Combinations after Hours of brainstorming all the Possibilities/combinations ... One that is unique , original , superior functionality ... something un heard of ... It's very satisfying when I find something like that ...But ...that excitement doesn't last long ... Things become old very quickly and I will immediately try to find something new even though I am benefiting a lot from what I already have .
That doesn’t really seem like Ni dom.
Agreed, you’re probably Ni front stack. But an actual Ni dom would stick with the underpinnings from said plan INSPITE of the addition of new information.
Also, the Se-Ni process runs like a circuit. Se gathers information, Ni uses said information in order to develop a conclusion.
Se saviors will take a long time to formulate a very bare bones conclusion. They will seek to verify their conclusions or rather move along straight away, and if any new contradictory information (can be utility activation, Se-Ti, or value/interest activation, Se-Fi) comes along, the old conclusion will be quickly forgotten.
Ni saviors will take much less time and require much less information and use that to create more vivid conclusions. Now that they have their conclusions, they will feel incredibly disinclined to gather new information as it pertains to their conclusions, in fear their old conclusion will be proven false. They will not move on to something else very easily, and they take comfort in sticking with the same planning metrics.
You seem to be an Se savior given your commentary. Said commentary corresponds with moving on very quickly from the conclusion because it is boring. Ni doms generally don’t care HOW boring a conclusion is.
My experience with Guild Wars 2 😕
Notification Gang!
I do love better manipula- interacting with people.
Lol 😂🤣
I'm an ENFP and I once wrote a fanfic that was nothing except a conversation between Dr. Doofenshmirtz and Wheatley from Portal 2. Literally sat there and let my Ne take me wherever it wanted and phrased it how they'd say it. One of the most fun projects I've done in a long time. They're my go-to for explaining Ne because you only need to look up compilations for either of them to watch them go off on tangents and get curious about things and explore possibilities. I should throw in Lilo from Lilo and Stitch because her Ne is also pretty dang obvious and those three would make for a fun scene.
And there's my analogy of Ne in action, which thus solidifies me as an intuitive type, because I could have said I use Ne and I'm constantly rambling.
ENTP here, I’ve always struggled to wrap my brain around how Ni works, and this video helped a lot (though I am still rather confused 😅)
Great video, and I definitely resonate with Ni more than Ne.
I've seen people say that they're not sure if they're INFJ or INFP, and some of those people say they feel like _Both_ which to me is very Ne.
I'm an INFJ myself, and while I've questioned what type I am, I've NEVER thought I was _Both_ INFJ and INFP.
I wanted to narrow it down to just One.
If you're going to do more of these videos I'm really looking forward to the Fe vs Fi video, because I feel like that's another thing that people who question whether they're INFJ or INFP would benefit from knowing more about.
Yes please! I second this request because I have found that I can relate to both Fi and Fe descriptions.
@@Christina-CA
Actually there's a channel called Joyce Meng that has discussions between similar and different types.
I think she calls them Type Talks and she's done one where it's INFJ vs INFP. They go into what the difference is between Fe and Fi in that video, so you could start there while you're waiting for Nathan's video. X)
@JokerCrowe21 thanks, I'll take a look! .... So I have watched the first hour of the Type Talks video and it is so inspiring and informative. Just want to say thanks so much for recommending it! I know with absolute certainty now that I'm Ni-Fe. So wonderful to watch the interactions between the INFJs and INFPs.
yep, i feel like the "i'm both" has to be low on both Ti/Ni
the internal dialog both these functions allow is too "logical" for 'im both'. You have to reach a decision and both just doesn't make sense.
@@Christina-CA
Glad I could help! I only recently found that channel myself, but I also found it really informative.
Welcome to the Ni-Fe team!
We have cookies :)
( every kind, just to cover all the bases and make sure people feel welcomed x)
I'm definitely an Ne dom and I would have never described myself as perfectionistic before now, but I guess constantly wanting options, opportunities, and especially my thought process to be open to new branches of possibility is a kind of perfectionism. Thank you for the new insight Nathan.
Your understanding about the functions are very good , thank you for sharing these videos with us🙏🏼💗
this is such a great explanation for the Ne and Ni cognitive functions, and i really love the use of analogy in this video. thanks for the video, Nathan!
Yooooo... u clarified YEARS of arguing with my hubby. Im an ENTJ n hes an ISTJ. Omg we saw things differently everytime n no matter how I explained he didn't see my perspective n vice versa.
I was listening to this n he was next to me n was low key listening. U EXPLAINED OUR BRAINS!! he's a high Si user so his Ni was non-existent and I use my Se(gardening n obsession with nature n plants) but primarily Ni. Thanks so much from both of us to further understand eachother🌻🌻🌻
If you guys haven’t already then feel free to check out the love who discord server, You might both enjoy being on there! Really glad to hear you enjoyed the video ~Nathan
That Ne perfectionism thing is a very big mood. Actually deciding how I want to do a timeline and such or characterization in my writing. Going through the process to finalize when I'm constantly generating new material is a pain.
Thank you for explaining the difference between ne and ni. I feel like the different cognitive functions are really difficult to learn about when first investigating MBTI so I appreciate that you're covering them. I look forward to more :)
As a high Ne user, needlessly oversimplifying things or cutting off possibilities can make me deeply uncomfortable, and this very much extends to the rambly ways I'm inclined to express myself, including in these comment sections. I only started commenting this year after years of exclusively lurking, and it seems like in every new writing-based context, I have to learn anew to curb my long-winded tendencies. My general feeling is that it's better to be comprehensive and true to the complexity of reality than to risk oversimplifying things and providing an inadequately nuanced understanding of whatever I'm trying to convey. I like to paint a complete picture.
But I know that people don't usually want to read long essays, so I've learned to compromise somewhat - and it kind of pains me when I do, and I'm never really sure if I made the best choice regarding which parts to leave out. But it's helped to employ a bit of long-term thinking and realize that I don't have to say everything I have to say on a topic all at once - I can distribute it in smaller nuggets over time, which will probably be more digestible for people anyway.
(Reply to comment below, as CZcams's not letting me reply to comments: There's obviously a degree of subjectivity to what is 'optimal' depending on your preference! Of course someone who prefers Ni would tend to see the Ni approach as optimal, while someone who prefers Ne would tend to see Ne as optimal in most situations. That's an intrinsic difference between us. That being said, I do see the value of Ni sometimes and do engage it selectively, it just isn't my default mode of operating.)
But there are plenty of instances in which an "oversimplification" (the pure core idea, the essence of a thing, the symbol that represents it) is the most optimal answer to a problem /question / dilemma etc.
Yes! As an INFP, whenever I try to explain something (like a decision I made or a philosophy I have about something, etc.), it is REALLY hard for me to give a simple explanation. This is because I see all of the different factors, events, people, ideas and reflections that went into forming that decision or philosophy, and I hate to leave any of them out because they were all important and couldn’t have worked without each other. So, when explaining something, I struggle to encompass all of the things that went into the decision etc in my answer (because leaving any of it out would not reflect the truth), without going on a two-hour rant (not to mention the many different thoughts and reflections I can add onto it in the moment). It is hard to balance all the things that you want to say without being incoherent and indigestible to others.
Regarding my dominant preference for Ni
Subjective Intuition
I like fitting as much context to a word in order for others to "unravel"
By what I mean either directly or indirectly
I often choose words by what they are supposed to mean in a certain time .
I am obliged however to properly interpret these words In order others to understand it by relational analysis
I imagine a Si/Ne Ne/Si
Connecting The dots from what is implied 2 minutes - 1year ago
Regarding a person preference for something
For example a friend of yours asks you for something that u don't know of what will be your first assumption won't you think of what have u discussed lately or what his interests are
-
Ni/Se
**I am not able to judge my inner workings perfectly since Ni is a Perceiving function**
A holistic view of everything may result in pit falls of these details I mentioned before
-
It feels like being an Empty shell
Nothing but emptyness
That has to Converge all the supermarket stuff into 1 household fridge
Ne- slowly but surely we got this
Ni-This
Thoroughly enjoyed that. You sir, have a knack for education. Simple and concise, yet clear and informative. Thank you x
As a kid i was very imaginative but alway failed to score 100 in test cuz i did not read the questions through.Sometimes I speak in analogies that dont even make sense to others but make total sense to me. I also bang my head a lot on accident.
Edit: shit i forgot my pen at home. Happens from the moment i went to school till now. Oh and my charger.
found it
This! I have a similar problem.I never really read the questions properly, or even try to.Cuz,the details bore me.I feel like,you know what,i already know what the question is trying to imply.I dont need the details.And at the end of the day....
I get the numbers wrong or something like that. Ni dom thing maybe.
ENTP😹
@@muslinaakhter6511 I'm a high Ni user and I teach math. I love the ideas of mathematics, but the details drive me crazy. When I grade students' papers, I struggle when I see the answer wrong, but I can tell they understand the idea. I want to give them full credit, because who cares that they missed a detail? I can't imagine an Si math teacher thinking that way! 😄
@@cathyhart3946 i mean of its a minor detail(a minus a plus or idk) give them 95%😂😂😂
Seriously dude, you are AWESOME! I've been learning and researching about personality types for months now, and yours is the first video on CZcams that actually explained Ne vs Ni in a concrete way. Great job! Excited to see your other videos too.
This was an amazing video. I’ve watched a ton of these on CZcams and yours was one of the most helpful. Thank you for making this!
Glad to hear it! You might also enjoy checking out the discord server too. Feel free to say hi on there if you do end up joining! ~ Nathan
Woooah! Dude! I've been trying to figure this one out for a while, reading a bunch of different articles, watching several YT videos, but the way you compared NE and Ni with Chess really clarified everything to me. Tysm!
Good one.
Initally I wanted to comment, that even high Ne users can get overwhelmed and unhappy by too many possibilities, if they just keep growing and growing. Like my uncountable browser tabs when I am researching on something, or just looking for potentially good stories.
However, it does indeed fall into the curse of "perfectionism".
I do think topics of "analysis paralysis" and "time management" plays a big role for Ne/Ni as well.
Nathan, this was an excellent overview. The preface you delivered in this vid was brilliant as well. So helpful thank you
thank you. the branch analogy make it really easy to understand. As an Infj, I like to observe, read and learn a lot. Im curious about how everything works. I see pattern easily, and usually I can see the same pattern, the core pattern in mant different but related things. Im working on seeing ,anh options as well, as I get older, I stop myself from drawing conclusion too soon when I havent know enough about people and subject yet. Ni is a very amazing function too have, but also exhausting. My mind always automatically connect things, gather information and try to make sense of the underlying rule and system. Im overwhelm most of the time.
This is a really great comment, I’m glad that you found that branch analogy to be accurate. By the way, if you haven’t already, feel free to check out the love who discord server - you might enjoy it on there a lot! ~ Nathan
@@lovewho thanks, I will take a look
1:03 daaaaaaaamn, Calling out Dave Superpowers 😆
This may have been the most useful introduction I've ever heard on a CZcams video. One should watch it first before ever trying to type yourself or anyone else. Bravo!
This was very useful for my understanding, thank you Nathan!
Immediately felt the truth in the feeling more comfortable with having things settled. Definitely realizing that Ni and Fe are my top two functions.
I agree. Although I've just been through a cordial rejection and I have to let both functions settle down because they are running a bit out of whack hahaha
So are you an ENFJ
@@aleeza3001 I'm still on the "journey" to figuring it out. I get INFJ on every test but I think it's possible I'm an ENFJ with more introverted tendencies.
Loved this! Keep up the good work (and the subtle comedy) ^^
Please make more videos like this... this channel really help us a lot to understand MBTI✨🙌
Love this, Nathan! Probably the best Ne/Ni explanation I've seen. Glad I found your channel in 2021 (I also had to 2x check), and hope you have a glorious 2022.
Spot on as usual!! Love u
Ne's keep conclusion options open
Very well articulated explanation of these functions. Thank you
Simplistic yet well explained, thank you sir for giving us a clear explanation. Looking forward to more cognitive function explanations in the future sir!
I think your videos on the cognitive functions have been the best ones I've found so far! Good job, Bro! ^___^
It's almost 5 in morning where I am
This is so well explained that it made me rethink a few things about my own type 😅 Good job
Your way of explaining things is great, thank you for sharing. :)
Great video Nathan!! Would love if you could delve into how to develop each of the functions in isolation in a future series.
As an INFP with naturally more comprehension of Ne, I _really_ appreciate this video cuz I want to understand Ni as well & be able to explain it to friends!
thank you for this video!!
"After all, the ultimate aim of acquiring this knowledge is to use it to better [...] interact with people in a ... wholesome and very good way."
Couldn't agree more. *Lowkey ... Loki wink*
An excellent and insightful analysis; I approve it.
A problem I see with the online tests is that they assume you've already met these sides of yourself. I didn't realize how given to planning and how averse to keeping things open-ended I generally am until I started learning about personality functions.
I now know I'm an INTJ but for a long time I actually thought I was too impulsive (I believe I could always be more calculating). lol I even thought I was a positional chess player for a minute there.
great video as always!!
Need this type of videos.
I can only, and will typically want to only, watch your videos. I appreciate how you distill the concepts with precision. I definitely like to wiggle down my relationships to conclude it’s purpose, meaning, and place in pattern… a very dangerous game to play. Although I’m really ever wrong. My partner asks, “How do you go from a conversation about patio plans to existential relationship crisis?” And I say, “I can’t unsee it!”
Please make more videos like that! It really helped me. Thank you! 😁
Ni (the working of it) is like playing the game "test your luck" to me.
There's this game that I play, and in this game, there are mini games, 2 of the mini games involve testing the player's luck, the player must guess which card or chest has treasure in it.
The feeling of playing these luck testing mini games to me is stressful, tbh.
How the player must make a decision on one most probable chest/card that contains treasure out of many cards/chests. It basically relies on what your gut feeling tells you.
Same with Ni. Ni sees many options, but it chooses one option out of many as a data point. Ni, just like that game, requires no analysis since it's not a judging function. With the game though, I still try to analyze the pattern, because doing it based on gut feeling is stressful as I said. That game is heavy on Ni and Se use, btw. If one gem appears in a chest on the first row of the left side, then next on the second row of the right side (of the screen), etc, then after gathering enough data from the pattern, i will analyze and then make my best guess. Still random, however. But i have won tons from analyzing the patterns of the chests and cards.
It's challenging, but my point is, that game reminded me of Ni.
Oo
I like how he doesn't even know which year so he'a not even gonna celebrate it 😂
Looking forward for part 2!
I loved the disclaimer you said at the beginner! People usually treat mbti like it's some kind of magic wich accurately describes people and it's not true.
the whole chess thing made me think of the queen’s gambit show when beth (intj) meets benny (entp) and he always says how they speak the same language or think the same way just using different methods and it was super interesting to see them pushing each other’s limits when playing to sharp their abilities
its this year.
FINALLY a good , brief, video about Ni and Ne, it is really described RIGHT on the spot. Love your videos Nathan
P.S im still banned from your discord server :D
Brilliant!
Very interesting video. And thanks for explaining the hair at the beginning. 🙃
This is very well explained!
The explanation about how low Ne and Ni works, wonderful
best ni and ne description on the internet!
Finally after like 3 years of lurking around I hit that subscribe button 🤣
part about perfectionsm explained it the best. thank you! now i can see better the difference on how Ni and Ne look at things
Intp here.
Pfffft when you reached the Ne brand perfectionism, you just described my writing process, just like that. 😂😂😂
That's why I can't finish anything.
great video, very informative =D
Hopefully, there will be Ti and Te in the next videos
I'm an ENFP, Ne is great for idea generation.. but I have not got it under control yet and find myself a bit directionless
Having clear Fi priorities in life will help guide the Ne.
I just love this guy...he's So Great!!
2:34 ,,to manipulate.... I mean better interact with people"
bro read my mind without any trouble 💀💀💀
As an ENTP I have this annoying tendency to somehow make super simple task to become so complicated to the point where I become too lazy to complete it lol.
that inferior Si and happy new year😳
I LIKE the way he thinks. INTJ
Thank you!
Hope you found it useful! ~ Nathan
I really liked the part of the video when you showed uhm... "the tree of options" and seeking them vs narrowing them down. Everytime I was taking some personality test and the question about having your options appeared - I was sure that yeah, I want to have them open, I love my freedom! but I've finally realised how wrong I was everytime I chose that answer xD Narrowing down my options NEVER took the freedom away from me. But it always gave me comfort, same as sticking to my plan/idea even if it wasn't the best I could make. Having watched this video, I've never been more sure about being INTJ ;)
Same here (both about options and being INTJ). Too many options -- like a menu at a restaurant -- can be overwhelming to the point of "I can't even". I wouldn't want to be limited to a single option of any particular thing, but a limited amount of options from which I can choose one (or one and a backup) and stick with is best. Come to think of it, that's probably why I get so infuriated when a grocery store suddenly stops carrying an item I've chosen. Not only is THE thing I chose no longer available, but now I have to go through the pain of finding a replacement!
I get it now, you're a damn good teacher!
This is really awesome to hear. Thank you for taking the time to write this comment! ~ Nathan
SO helpful! Thank you ~INFJ with ENFJ friends
Yayyy a function video!
INTP here. It is extremely difficult for me to make decisions. It takes a lot of thinking through every possibility, and then even then, I hate picking one thing or one way. I know it's not the end of the world if I end up driving an extra 10 miles, or if one meal is "ruined" because I didn't think through every single scenario before deciding on something, but it feels like an end of the world decision. I have to learn to just let go and not worry about the outcome. Things don't have to go perfectly. My problem is that I'm constantly trying to figure out the best decision to make on all kinds of things, I'm not aware that my brain is even doing it most of the time.
Indeed, this is a relatable problem for lots of more intellectual types I'd say. One thing or lesson that's been hit home to me is the power of simply taking action in life. Direct, concrete data and feedback from taking action is going to be far quicker and more accurate than speculating. Also there'll always be at least some detail that you couldn't account for in your head! ~ Nathan
@@lovewho Yes, at some point, not matter how much I'm gritting my teeth, I just pick something and go with it. It's just not a good feeling, lol!
Great job of explaining
Good job Nathan.