Parasitic Draw or Bad Battery? (GM Truck)
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- Hey, this truck looks familiar...
This beastly Chevy 3500 Dually was featured in the "Reduced Power" case study a few years ago:
• GM Chevy Truck: "REDUC...
This time it came in with some wonky gauges, and a complaint of a DEAD BATTERY if the truck sits for more than a week.
Are the two symptoms related?
What is the FASTEST and most ACCURATE way to determine if you have a parasitic draw?
Visit the PHAD Amazon Store for all your Electrical Diagnostic tools and supplies:
www.amazon.com...
Enjoy!
Ivan - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I have a huge parasitic draw. No matter what I do, I just can’t get rid of her. I’ve changed the locks and everything.
it's called a divorce .lol hahaha
@@kennethstrait6391 That's going from a low steady draw to an instant 50% cut in storage!
A very small chunk of lead, approximately 9 mm usually cures _that_ type.
My experience is if you get fake snakes and insects at the dollar store....the draw will be vastly reduced.
i had one, finally a total loss
the best method i have seen to check for parasitic draw is to get a jump pack and clamp the pack negative to alternator case and the pack positive to your meters lead set on amps and your neg lead clamps to battery positive post on alternator. then you can remove the battery and do what you need to do without losing codes and customer settings. once the computer goes to sleep youll be able to see the draw going directly through the meter and then start testing the fuses
I like it!
That's a good tip on how to tell if your battery is weak. I remember your white board video talking about this very subject. I learned a lot that day.
Never turn off an Ivan video production there is always something new. Thanks Ivan ❤️
Be pretty cool to cut side of battery apart and get a visual of the plates..nice going.Ivan..👍's up...
Its no FLUKE that you get accurate results.👍
I'd just like to apologise for my part in the unnecessary vitriol in some of the comments, Ivan. Keep up the good videos.
A lesson in every video!
As a professional test equipment calibrator, I can easily say Fluke makes the best Multimeters and Clampmeters...buy quality once if you are a professional technician...hobbyists save your money and go to habor freight....
Yep the battery didn't have a low enough effective resistance, it thinks it's a 9 volt PP3 lol.
My mates 20+ year old bmw had the same throttle body problem, the black crud was like concreate, swear words were used lol.
Worked fine after the mining operation :-D
20 year old Beemer..back when they still had some metal in the construction...
I have a parasitic draw coming from my two relays that control my third row seats on a 03 Ford Expedition, Replaced my Vehicle Security Module which has a wire that suppose to control or ground it so power is sent to the up and down switches. No luck, So now going to rig it by adding an on and off switch to ground the relays to power up my seats, then turn it off when not adjusting the third row seats. This truck went through 4 batteries.
green crusties abound! go find them and fix it?
Got to watch those newer electronic throttle bodies. If they are really dirty and you clean them they will idle fine but as soon as you push on the gas they race and race and the rpm never comes back down untill you turn off the engine. You always have to do a relearn procedure with a capable scan tool to fix that issue.
I bought the same fluke. Thanks to you ivan. Very happy with it.
TP angle from 17 to 9 from a TB cleaning? WTF! I've never seen any results like that. lol Nice job Ivan!
Back when we had carburetors, a dirty one could stick part way open and not close.
Baxrok2, I know, F'N WOW.
@@psdaengr911 not to mention not let enough air pass at idle or part throttle, causing rich idle and cruise. smog test fail!!!!
yeah, in Ohio, summit county where they've had the useless smog testing for many years, only thing it did was caused mild issue vehiucles to be crushed, while the trash junk pumping raw gas out the exhaust is still cruising around ;)
I had a big bottle brush for my TB. Used to just hose it down with throttle body cleaner before I changed my oil like once every 6 months or so.
On my Diagun I use the lower phone back button. It works better. Also, I use gasoline in one of those metal cans u pressurize. Works way better than brake clean. Brake clean evaporates way to quick. It’s also great for floor spills and watching fuel trim to diag a vacuum leak. Starts the charcoal quick too.
Sir Ivan ALWAYS goes that extra mile. Showing us the difference just by cleaning the TB WAS VERY EYE OPENING FOR ME, WOW. Also APPARENTLY there was a FLUKE in the CRAFTSMAN METER, I'M SORRY BUT I HAD TO.
I had a parasitic draw took it to several mechanics and none were able to find the actual problem they changed the cluster took out my swc control box behind my stereo took off the stereo and sound system at the end I found it by accident my truck is a 2005 silverado 4x4 it has the rear headset option on top of the console turns out the short was in there I realized it by touching that part with my hand it was really hot I pryed it out with a screwdriver its sort of like a small stereo and unplugged it and it fixed my problem
I think there's something about resetting the throttle butterfly angle percent to Zero on the Gen3 Chevrolet V8 engines by disconnecting the throttle position switch, turning the ignition switch on for 10 seconds then turning the ignition switch off then plugging the throttle position switch plug back in then checking the throttle butterfly opening %age with the scan tool because I reset mine to about 0% (0.4% it sits at) on my 5.7 litre Chevrolet LS1 V8 engines throttle body.
I think it's needed when replacing the throttle body & some people do allow a bit of a gap there when they "cam up" the engine ,for example to improve the idle & they also have to increase the size of the air hole on the throttle butterfly by drilling it out !
Wether the throttle body is dirty or not disconnecting the battery causes the idle relearn. A lot of techs are using a memory saving device to avoid it
To help out my amp clamp for low-draw issues, I built a coil of wire protected by a 5 amp fuse. I put the coil in-line with the circuit being tested and take measurements from the coil. The coil is ten loops of wire so the current displayed needs to be divided by 10 to arrive at the actual current draw.
Certainly helps bring the reading up to within the cheap meter's capability. Maybe someday I'll get around to building a 100 loop armature wire winding (varnish-covered wire).
Great tip!
yep, that works also, but when putting it in series with a vehicle and reconnecting there's often a peak amperage in excess of 20 amps when reconnecting.
i just rig up a disconnect or blade switch, to take the peak current, let it settle to reasonable level then open the switch and let it go through the meter then. just make sure you don;t fiddle the keyfobs or have any "automatic" proximity lock/unlock function enabled
@@throttlebottle5906 I'll have to keep an eye out for that big initial draw. Although, since all my vehicles are older than 15 years, it's not something I've stumbled on to yet. Thanks!
GM recommends driving the vehicle and operating all options, then you turn the engine off, install amp meter and wait 15 minutes for the computers to go to sleep. Sometimes you will see one stay active (intermittent condition hard to find). I had one truck that kicked me hard, it would call into Onstar at 2am and stay connected until the battery was dead at 8am.
Some of these cluster repairs require flashing the pcm/bcm/anti theft system. Some radios will malfunction, some steering wheel buttons become inoperative, and like yours here, sometimes you need to relearn idle. Crazy!
Nice vid Ivan. I always use my Novitec CBT12XS first when electronic problems occur at a car. Saves me a lot of diag time.
This is the earliest I've ever seen one of your videos "33 seconds ago" on the post, of course I've watched it now so it's like 12 minutes lol.
Привет Иван!
По моим сведениям, обнулять токовые клещи нужно НЕПОСРЕДСТВЕННО рядом с проводником тока и расположив их уже в рабочем положении. Иначе, не верно компенсируется локальное магнитное поле. На практике, я заметил, что это реально влияет на точность. Но я измеряю малые токи утечки, там это важно
Смотрю с интересом, Денис !
uhoh, it's Russian collusion =p
but yes, that is accurate, they sense the magnetic field current flowing through the wire causes.
@@throttlebottle5906 Ivan, it seems a little sad to me. Speaking in Russian, I try to cheer him up.
Holy crap!
Im going to be doing the same thing on a 2004 2500 Crew cab on Tuesday! Think it's so funny ... The timing and all...
Ehh... I'll just copy you... Maybe... Maybe not.this thing is pretty beat. ,(and it'll take about two weeks to release the vid... Got a few ahead of it.)
Its a small mess... The parasitic draw was an incorrectly installed IGN1 relay. (Backwards)
The last thing I might have done is recharge and check the battery with a carbon pile load. If it falls below its CCA advertised output or is not not close to it. Pitch that baby in the recycle bin and get the proper rated one for that vehicle. Nice job Ivan
Eh not necessary in this case :)
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics it defiantly looked spanked.
now there are clamp meters that can measure milliamps
I still don't trust them, the only true way is a series connected current bridge, selected for the appropriate current range. the rest are all fancy electronic "guess workers"
I may as well pull out my non-existent crystal ball and guess wildly at the issue (or use a battery load tester and charge it first, then assume something killing it if good)
I have a 2006 3500 with the 6 liter engine. Just like that one. With the same Napa legend top and side post battery. It can only set 2 weeks without starting or the battery runs down. I have a new battery in it just like your new one and still can only set 2 to 2 1/2 weeks. You have to keep a battery maintainer on it. All of these trucks are a little slugish with the starter. I have everything in perfect condition electrically, but it still a bit slow on the first start. Mine did not charge much and. I replaced the battery and The charge rate went right up. This is the third battery in mine. The original starters on these trucks always seemed a little weak. I also have the same Fluke amp clamp and my parasitic draw is very very low, Just a fraction of an amp from my battery condition monitor. No matter what I have to have a 1 to 3 amp float charger on it. It always starts so I am not going to spend big bucks on a higher performance starter. I had to clean all of the battery cables and where the wire crimps on with cleaner unit oxidant. The red and black covers can be pulled off to let you clean every surface and crimp and replace or polish the battery bolts.
hmm for a very small parasitic draw
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Thank you for the reply. I have a brake controller in this truck along with a digital voltage monitor. These could be accelerating my battery drain. I learned this just from reading comments here. Keep up the great videos. MY clamp meter is no more sensitive than yours. I may in the future put an in line digital amp meter into the circled to check the parasitic draw after truck goes into sleep mode. Again thanks!!!
that's pretty much ALL vehicles beyond OBD1, and the earliest OBD2, after they've added far too many modules, electronics, remotes, proximity sensors and other doo-dads. they all suck down power, one week is MAX any of that stuff should sit unused. many have a switch at fusebox for "trasporting" or sitting on a lot, while others dont and they simply pulled a few fuses ;)
I also have the same craftman amp meter, I was watching a youtube vid and someone said to hold the meter next to the battery but not connected to the battery when you zero it and it works fine. Haven't had the chance to try it but may be a thing. Also I was told never to manually move the throttle body butterfly, I turn the key and put a brick on the gas pedal, which is correct. your the man Ivan
Hall effect sensors are very sensitive. You must zero in the orientation and as close to the actual position of measurement as possible, especially when surrounded by metalwork like that. If at all possible, interrupt the circuit and zero while clamped on the cable.
Thanks for the info never to old to learn
The Craftsman likes to jump +/- 0.2A no matter how you hold it lol
Nice trick the battery one👌
The dash gauges can be the draw mine were
Nice quick again Ivan great work my friend keep up the good work. when you have the tools for the job it does make it alot easier and life as well...Thanks again i must say u r the best....
Thanks for the comment Russ!
Great video Ivan, just fyi. You can use the scan tool to hold open the throttle plate while your cleaning it. Also I use industrial cotton swabs to clean them. I will send you some. Once I am done cleaning them I do a idle relearn procedure.
I don't trust the electronics to hold anything open...don't want to lose a finger haha ;)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I understand. But I have done it myself. As long as the key is on not running and with the scan tool hooked up.it will stay open. But I use the long industrial swabs to clean it
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics haha or have your wife hold the pedal down with her foot. KoEo
haha now do I trust my wife's foot more than a scanner?
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I understand that
Use a cheap Chinese software battery analyser and seems to do the job as well as testing the alternator. Fluke have tight specs and are one of the leaders in their class. TB cleaning sure makes an awful difference to normal engine operation. Never too late in the year for a snow blizzard.
That's awesome!! Excellent video!! 👍🇨🇦
Parasitic draw seems to be everywhere. My 2014 Shelby GT 500 has it. I've even thermal imaged the fuses to look for temperature differential on the active fuse.
That's a good trick but if you're pulling Mv and it's a nice day out you may not see the heat from the fuse.
@@EGGINFOOLS You might be surprised how sensitive a thermal image is. Good point though. Thanks.
I'm loving the videos you've been putting out lately your really doing some good stuff would love to see another project vehicle like the silhouette that was pure CZcams gold.
How about restoring my 1989 Mazda MPV to its former glory? It needs some major TLC!!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics perfect
Exactly what I'll be doing on today on the Nam vet's Saturn Astra. BTW Ivan finally got the new ECM programmed. on low speed cam. Used the oscilloscope found it being pulled to ground. Fixed the culprit doing that and bingo ecm now programmed. Now figure out why the battery is dying.
Sounds like progress!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Found the battery was spanked. Found the battery was at 12v but amp clamp showed it was only excepting 3.5 amps. Now the D**mn p0017 cam crank correlation is back along with a U0073 comm code. Scoped the exhaust cam. nice square wave. Without a known goog cam crank for the car what good is it. I am baout ready to schedule a trip to you at State college . To see if you can figure the darn thing out.
It's possible that battery could have been discharging through all of that crud on the top.
Even with Smart Charging Systems with current sensors and various charge modes in modern vehicles, batteries should be charged offline once or twice a year, and immediately after a discharge.
Great vid Ivan
Ivan, ive worked on those millions of times. I took whole throttle body off and give it a good wash with brake clean and clean the arms front and behind it. I use old toothbrush or a new one. It works great to get the TPM to reset to 2%. As 17 is high!! Works every time.
There is a procedure to gave it reset and relearn it.
the fluke was a little wonky today too.... normally a 5 to 20 ma reading should show I think back then low voltage would cause tac codes yes carbon would be low idle speed and stalling too
He zeroed it incorrectly. Easily done, I can't claim not to have made that mistake 20 times.
amp clamps are NOT the way to test low current DC, as it's only sensing a very weak magnetic field! which tend to be influenced by the sun/moon/stars/being moved. remeber the earth is a big magnetic field and anything metal alters it :) pretty much try using a magnetic compass and moving it around the vehicle.
@@throttlebottle5906 agreed.....I do that check always through my meter remember back in the olden days doing it with a test light?
I thought you were`nt suppose to push open the electronic control throttle plate, because you can possibly damage the plastic gears? Only the cable control can be pushed open. Because I saw a CZcams video where a person damaged his by pushing it open to clean the inside. Or is it possible he did something else and didn`t want to say?
I've cleaned dozens this way; never had a problem. Just use your head and don't force it too hard :)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Ok, thank you.
Bad battery. Go through this every 5 years2001 chevy Surburban God bless
Bg throttle body cleaner at the sensor. I do that a lot in my 5.3 too. God bless
Guage cluster on those silverados always go bad and discharges the battery
3:00 the countdown is real lol
Ok, I'm confused...which isn't hard to do... When the current dropped off at the battery when the truck was started up, how do we know that it wasn't the alternator that was not charging correctly? Could someone explain that to me please?
Because the voltage was a good 15 Volts....Ohms Law!
Ivan I hear bad belt noise too 10:40 Belt cherp
Have a 2008 2500 GM.
It was electric brake controller.
I finally got a notification.
Th owner has one complaint; he can't get more than 5 miles per gallon
LMAO.
Crazy why anyone would want an 8.4Ltr Diesel engine..my 1.4ltr Diesel does 68mpg and 70mph all day long on the Motorway freeway
Steve Jones it's not diesel; it's gasoline.
@canuckguy worried Yes, America is the only country in the world doing work. Nobody else actually has any industry or business to do. Europe especially doesn't have a similar or bigger economy than the US and one and a half times the population. Nothing to be seen here.
@canuckguy worried I noticed. In this context (vehicles and application), same difference.
Flukes advertising motto: If it works, it's a Fluke!
Like the trucking company...if its on time...its a fluke
Simple and sweet eh! 👍🇨🇦🆗
You nailed it a battery with high resistance Like that fluke nice jaws very good diagnosis by the way how’s the HP?
best way to test for low level DC current is a meter physically inline between battery and wire. add in a temporary jumper with disconnect or knife switch, connect it and let it go to sleep then open the switch and watch. it was much easier on top post! no magical adapter/extenders/custom cables needed.
That was no fluke....definetely bad battery.
xD
This just my opinion young man, but you should have taken the throttle-body apart completely and cleaned it along with the Map censer. Don't you think?
That is a beast!
Ivan, Why did you replace the battery? You could have rebuilt the battery and saved this customer a few dollars and had a viral video on your channel. Remember the Pakistani truck guys rebuilding batteries? A few simple tools and a charcoal fire is all you to rebuild a battery, think of the State College excitement.
OK I'll try the Pakistani rebuild method on the next one :D
The Pakistani division of Dorman
lold
You’re the Chevy truck whisperer LOL
Great video. Thumbs up
Nice job Ivan! 👍
Ivan,
Great video and fix - thank you!. Curious how old that battery was? Also do you ever use any of those tricks with ansmall external battery to keep the PCM memory alive (KAM) when you remove the main battery?
God bless
Paul (in MA)
I used a parallel backup battery connection. I used a battery from a computer uninterruptible power supply. It works well - car radio could be blocked by a secret code.
What's up with the right to repair bill? Are cars heading the way of John Deere?
If I didn't care about money, what is the best battery. From your experience?
I like the NAPA Legend brand :)
you do get wot you pay for . but wot about bad grounds and contacts to
Good
Was wondering if I could pick your brain a little have a 2003 Chevy Suburban starts up cold runs about 10 to 15 minutes or what seems to be warm up and then dies out will not start but will spin let it cool off till engine is cold and then will start up again until it gets warm or 10 to 15 minutes any ideas would be appreciated love the videos very informative
Could be anything! Start by checking the fuel pressure and missing spark...
is that amp clamp in your amazon store. thanks.
Just click the link!
You, you, you, Used Break cleaner without that sound Effect? 🤔That’s Heresy!🤦🏻♂️
SMA effect strikes again.😀
I love you videos. Good ol 8100. I'm looking at a 2500hd suburban with this motor. What's your opinion on this motor?
It's a beast. Should last forever if you change the oil. Massive torque.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics That's what I'm hoping for. Thanks for the reply. I love love love the ls motors and can easily make the power I want to pull my travel trailer but the 8100 makes all that torque down low on 87 octane. Outside of fuel mileage it's hard to beat. Just didn't know about longevity
@@EGGINFOOLS one of my customers has a 2500HD with over 200k miles. Had a lifter tick since 120k miles. But he still takes it cross country with a camper every year no issues lol
The Fluke coming through in the clutch. I have a Fluke multimeter (73 model I think), it works flawlessly. I've tried other meters with not much success. I still am thinking about getting the amp clamp of theirs like the one you have. I don't know what is going on with vehicle batteries lately but I think we are only going to get about 5 years out of them now. I try to stay away from Exide batteries as they are horrible. Just out of curiousity, did you send the cluster to United Radio in Syracuse?, I've heard they are pretty good with fast turn around.
I rebuild the cluster in my shop on the bench! All new steppers and illumination bulbs. Takes about an hour :)
Nice job as always, how old was that battery?
Maybe 8 years old?
Anyone know unibody frame rails on the ford's escape's are not solid steel, they're Ply-steel frame gutters/ rails pressed tin, like plywood... they rot from the inside out... Full Of Rust Dust
Ingeniously planned obsolescence.
Other than there being only one cable, is there another reason to meter the negative lead?
Nope just convenience :)
Dooley
Would increased blow from crack ventilation lead to dirty throttle?
It's exhaust gasses from the EGR system. A little bit of the sooty exhaust is sent back to the intake. They all get dirty over time. Very annoying unless you are buying a car and you talk the price down because it hardly idles. Got one cheap and cleaned the throttle body. It upped the value instantly :) Be aware that some cars need to have throttle reset with scan tool after cleaning or it will still have the symptoms (I'm looking at you, Nissan, grr!)
Ok I love your videos, but the other day I tried to find your little roach clip thingy for soldering and I couldnt find it, where did u find it??
I made it! Just solder a couple small alligator clips to a u-shape copper household electrical wire :)
Roxanne, If you want a fancy one, you can get one from, - HARBOR FREIGHT - , if I'm not mistaken I think they call them "HELPING HANDS "....
Thank you Ivan for telling me how to make it!!! Have an awesome day!!!
@@danielc.3725 Thank you Daniel for your suggestion too!
What’s with the speedo creeping up at 4:20
It's a Chevy thing :D
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics haha, yeah, they've done that since the early days of OBD1!!! I assume it's just noise hitting the wires from speed sensor or clutser
my 1992 does that, if you free-rev and every other that I can think of after that :))
Why does a cleaner throttle body change open percentage?
Because cleaning it gives a better flow and the plate closes better. Ecm knows it doesn't need to open it so wide.
Spelter so your saying it was not closing fully so to much air was causing to much fuel. And you mean flow = to much air/ fuel.. so it really comes down to the areas that needed to be cleaned are the areas that are holding it open, not surfaces that do not.. just trying to wrap my mind around this.
@@robertmccully2792 you got it. Only the surface that has contact needs to be cleaned. The inside is not relevant
Spelter got thanks
Thanks for the video!
What amps was the new battary taking and what do you expect from a normal (good) used battery?
Would it not depend on the state of charge plus the internal resistance?
@@psdaengr911 yeah of course. But battery only turn you car electric on and then starts it. So while driving the generator only has to replenish the amps used up by this. If your dive is long enough and the whole system is working correct then the charge it takes should be in the same spectrum.
I laso just want to hear his opinion. What a battery has to accept when it is not full.
I've seen some good discharged batteries accept over 100A!! Basically maxing out the alternator output lol
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics So when the battery will use what it can get, it is good?
Have to check on in a MB B-200 (2006). Ether the 2x15min drive everyday is not enough, the altenator does not put ot enough current or the replaced battery is still bad, never goes higher then 12,5V (engine off).
nice
How do you correlate low amp input to a bad battery? I’ve never seen specs on that before.
I'd like to see a video on battery testing this way. I wonder how you would know whether it's a low output alternator instead for example.
Alternator was putting out a healthy 15V, but battery wasn't accepting any appreciable current at that voltage. So bad battery is the logical conclusion :)
Ivan how did you know the alternator wasn't bad? because the input voltage to the battery was high but the charge current was low? no chance of a bad alt showing these same numbers?
@Jason Bowman thanks. I've seen a few bad batteries recently and they get hot when charging. i even had a battery that stayed slightly warm sitting on the shelf, it would discharge itself overnight.
battery build quality must be going down.
Battery voltage was at 15 volts so the alternator was putting out enough voltage. The battery just wasn't accepting enough current.
If the alternator could not sustain the output current it wouldn't be able to hold the voltage that high. If you had a bad alternator and a bad battery you might see such a condition, but the battery would still need replacing first.
12.2 is a little low?? my bmw 328xi battery reads 11.5 and i have a no crank no start at the moment and am leaning towards the starter. but 11.5 should be enough to crank it right? i push the start button and all i get is a loud click.. followed by a errrrrrr. :
Try it with a jump pack or a fully charged battery. BMWs are too smart for their own good ;)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics just now tried this, same thing, a loud click followed by a errrrr. But i noticed my driving lights go out completely when i try and start it, but come back on after the errr sound is over.. all my fuses and the relay behind the glove box are good i believe. I disconnected the ibs sensor and tried without that, no change. Im getting stumped lol
What's the current draw when it goes "errr"? Loud click means starter is engaging, but can't turn over. So either burned up starter or your engine is locked up lol
What is the hand held scanner you are using?
Launch Diagun IV. Check it out in the Amazon store :)
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics
In Pine Hollow Amazon store?
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Your store doesn't pull up under Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics. Can you provide a link?
@@Mr2004MCSS It's linked in the video description
@@joemilton7552 Thank you.
Problem was it had a Napa battery
I think it was 8 years old, so that's a pretty good service life!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics we've never had luck with them in our trucks and tractors
If it works it's a Fluke!
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🌷
Sulfation
Do you use an electric desoldering gun for the cluster repair?
I have one, but just used a regular Hakko iron for these, since the steppers pop out easily enough :)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Hakko soldering stations are great, I use one to build michropohone/ audio xlr cables.
It looks like it's been driven into a lake. Poor truck.
Yep that battery is bad it needs to be spanked...oh wait it is already spanked...lol...