Is Consciousness an Illusion? | Episode 1002 | Closer To Truth
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- čas přidán 24. 05. 2024
- What is consciousness? Is consciousness something special in the universe, a carrier of meaning and purpose? Or is consciousness a mere artifact of the brain, a by-product of evolution? I hope consciousness is special, which is why I must be a skeptic. Featuring interviews with Nicholas Humphrey, Julian Baggini, Rebecca Goldstein, Galen Strawson, Anthony Grayling, and Raymond Tallis.
Season 10, Episode 2 - #CloserToTruth
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Closer To Truth host Robert Lawrence Kuhn takes viewers on an intriguing global journey into cutting-edge labs, magnificent libraries, hidden gardens, and revered sanctuaries in order to discover state-of-the-art ideas and make them real and relevant.
▶Free access to Closer to Truth's library of 5,000 videos: bit.ly/376lkKN
Closer to Truth presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
#Consciousness #Philosophy
Your program is one of the most important quests in the history of mankind. These series of videos are priceless.
You’re giving Robby Larry way too much credit!
Since you have no experience of what you call "the history of mankind", you plainly cannot discover whether or not the particular question posed is as significant as you suppose it to be.
Moreover given that "mankind" is a species of universal, mankind can only be imaginary or a vague generalisation for those similar to but not exactly, you yourself, which you can only imagine, and it may be, do you imagine because as far as you are concerned, for all practical purposes "mankind" - like all universals, can only possibly be imaginary or some vague image in your associative apparatus or mind, and it is not something that you can directly immediately personally experience.
This is equally true of all universals, is it not?
The fact that anything exists at all is paranormal.
@@jaxsazerac4904no, thats not how words work lol
"Why is consciousness so different from everything else?" What everything else? All I see is within my phenomenal conscious experience...
Exactly.. infact the 'I' with which everything is seen is consciousness...
cz We dont want to accept that we are also made up of matter like other objects
@@ksthakur1659 What is matter?
Problem is that what you see isn’t necessarily there when it’s not being observed. In other words, nothing really exists in a solid form outside of being observed BY a conscious agent. It exists as a mathematical probability in a wave function.
@@theconservativechristian7308 obejects are their before our birth. if are not seeing it other ppl doing it. so their is not any controdiction. even our Common behaviour is based on it . World is physical . this fact one cannt deny 🤔
The fact that you can even claim that consciousness is an illusion is itself a demonstration of consciousness.
To say that consciousness is an illusion is like screaming "I'm not at home!" when someone rings the bell at your door.
andsalomoni Nice.👍
But consciousness may not have all of the properties that you think it has.....
@@gdn5001 like what ???? stupid troll post.
@@cholobok How was is not? If you're going to deny your consciousness you better damn explain how it isn't a demonstration of it.
For a new explanation please see:
czcams.com/video/4Lne1bFc0rA/video.html
I wrote a 20 page paper in psych class on consciousness. The paper basically outlined all the different definitions used by different disciplines from physics to Neuroscience to the APA definition. I also took the time to break down as I see the argument. Basically after reading all the definitions and reading research papers and watching videos it seemed to be that the word consciousness gets used and thrown around. Like when someone talks about social consciousness. Consciousness is at the top of the pyramid or is the sphere that surrounds what’s inside or is like an invisible force field where really when someone says social consciousness they really mean social awareness. Awareness is always happening even when you are sleeping. Why I wake when I hear a sound. It is without a doubt linked to survival. There is absolutely no doubt. Can it be linked to other things. Yes, but that’s another conversation. I’ll have to look back at my paper but I broke it down even further but for this discussion and what dawned on me the next morning after I saw this video and what I wanted to say was two things:
1. I thought about time and memory. I thought about other animals who can remember things but link them differently than for just survival or at least immediate survival and we could argue either way if it fits into a survival category but I thought about how elephants have been observed going back to the same exact spot a former family died to visit. I also thought about time in general and how memory is kind of a way to travel back in time or planning for the future is traveling forward in time. Squirrels hiding nuts everywhere (but forgetting where they all are) just humans obviously have more complexity to the forward and backwards thinking. Also culture for humans can be linked to survival in many ways but that’s also another conversation but does fit into the argument about consciousness and time and the abstract nature of both of which physics and cosmology dabble in these arenas. It is still an awareness not necessarily consciousness.
2. Which brings me to number 2 and consciousness which sits above or around awareness and the idea behind why we are aware of being self aware of the self, ourselves and others selves and others self awareness and when others are not aware of their self awareness which can be important to answering that questions and maybe a place to look when day a person is blacked out drunk. Who are they then if they are not self aware and arguably conscious. So, I don’t think the answer is simple but everything is awareness not consciousness. That I think is a huge issue in the argument and needs to be separated so we can explore what consciousness actually is or is actually. As it relates to time which I argue does not exist except as an abstract property we assign to give meaning to our survival neither does consciousness. Does “time” exist? Sure, ok. Then what is it? The “time” it takes for the earth to rotate once fully? That’s time? Obviously not. So what is it? All the time that has passed since the Big Bang? Really? If gravity can’t be seen but it can observed but we really don’t know what it is than it’s the same with time and maybe the same with consciousness or they are related in some manner. I’m not saying they don’t exist or have properties undiscovered etc. but something is possibly missing. We say “spacetime” but really it’s just space and time is only relevant to the person exoernicing it or an observer which implies they be aware but not conscious since we don’t know what consciousness is just like we don’t know what time is as it relates to what came before the Big Bang or what’s beyond the observable universe. Time could be infinite which just means it doesn’t exist and honestly it can’t exist because something must always have existed before that and before that and before that and after this and after this. Just the awareness of this abstract idea makes it impossible to argue otherwise. So maybe there is only awareness and no consciousness and no time just the abstract idea of it for survival purposes. Gravity. Maybe we will find out what it is one day beyond just its detection and the feeling of jumping in the air.
Thank you. I agree.
Consciousness is awareness with a choice
@@williamvinton8105 Choice of what?
@@Oleksiy777 I think he means that consciousness is the choice to focus ones attention on ones self rather than anything else
Excellent argument that totally makes sense. I congratulate you for arriving at this state!
if consciousness is an illusion, what exactly is being illuded? an illusion is a meaningless concept without a conscious observer
Wow.. yeah
Woah
It could be that our lives seems to be real, it “feels” real but it isn’t. This world could be a lucid dream that is building our thoughts and unconsciousness getting us ready for the “real reality” after we leave this world and leave our physical bodies (I guess that could be what they mean)
The "conductor" is the illusion.
@@rickwyant that may be, but what about the watcher
Robert is best in the world by now in looking natural while sitting on park benches or taking walks in parks. By now the cameraman is like a tree next to him.
I hate when he pretends to think . This whole channel is a pretend journey .. nonsense
@@DawnHub666 then why are you here?
@@papinbala to see how long he can lie to himself , and how it devolves and avoids God
@@DawnHub666 only dumys that believe in 'cuz god' are devolved
why is he searching for it then ?
Consciousness orchestrates what is illusory. This does not negate reality but places it in time. For a symphony to become timeless it must comport to a greater consciousness.
Your tiny problem being that you have absolutely*No* ide either what consciousness is or what you eek to convey when you use, what is to you a completely meaningless word.
*Whose* consciousness, *Of.. What?
You have absolutely *No* idea, have you?-You don't even know what conscious *means*, as you are about to demonstrate.
I was thinking there is only me, and before I was born or after I'm dead I am you. I am the universe and my journey of awareness will go on forever and will experience all.
You are the Super Man.
👍
Solipcism?
@@mauriceduenas1586
Cool.
He's clearly nailed it.
You high?
Really precisely *when* were you" after you were dead"?
Dear Dr. Kuhn, I absolutely love your videos and the eloquent depth of inquiry you bring; I oftentimes listen thrice. I will confess, however, to being a bit frustrated at spots by what I perceive as a bias towards the physicalist position, so I enjoyed the intriguing crack you expertly identified and left open in that door just towards the end of this episode (and please note, you're hearing this from a reasonably well-published physical chemist and fellow "hard sciences" guy). I would like to respectfully suggest that If you were to do a truly deep, sustained dive into the remote viewing literature, including the history of the U.S. government's "Star Gate" program (Google, for example, Dr. Edwin May or Russel Targ), and also such a dive into the recently-exploding literature involving near-death experiences (see, for example, books by cardiologists like Dr. Pim von Lommel), I respectfully predict that you would be very hard pressed to come away with intact certainty regarding the pure physicalist position (taken here to be the one wherein all aspects of the consciousness which us ordinary human beings experience is 100% "located" at the space-time coordinates of one's body and brain). After doing such dives into these areas, I judge that the evidence is STRONG that we sometimes have access to information and perspectives which are "non-local" to our purely-corporeal, metabolically-thrumming selves. Once this tent flap is lifted, there is indeed a great big obtrusive camel 🐫 standing there demanding to be considered and factored in, so I totally understand the trepidation. In the bravest and most-expansive spirit of science, however, once you honestly suspect something, you pretty much gotta go until you know -- or at least until you can conclude that it's unknowable. I predict in this case that that won't happen because it *is* knowable -- and more straightforwardly than you might imagine. The data are exceedingly well-organized and cogently presented. If you would like to have some more detailed literature references, I would be very happy to send you some.
Materialism can't explain consciousness
To be aware that consciousness is an illusion, is to be conscious.
"Consciousness is a glimpse of non-physical reality."
@Zed Williams
this is a material paradigm a theorie
(you make sense in the way that in deep sleep resembles blank consciousness the most cuz
there is only pure consciousness without turbulanse. things, objects, feelings experiance.
like still clean water, or a sky without clouds.
thoughts are real feelings are real, the content of thoughts are not real relative truths (1+1=2) at best.
consciousness is real. You can test it in your own awareness that everything you feel touch smell appears in
consciousness. Matter is the grand illusion, it's not matter at all look at quantum mechanica. just
energy-fields, strings (just information) looks more than spirit, mind or consciousness to me.
Matter is just a word it doesn't technically exist. Elektrical signals in the brain most space between is
empty. physical-reality is just a word a concept it's not something out there??? that;s just an idea. not proven
and it is impossible to separate matter from consciousness. (example) You are the movie but consciousness is the
screen. You the movie depends on the screen for it's existance. The screen can exist without the movie.
czcams.com/video/IMtDuv48XsQ/video.html
Quantum Mechanics - The radical metaphysical and epistemological implications of QM which even most hard-nosed scientists fail to understand.
czcams.com/video/1st_ulCPeR4/video.html
Quantum Mechanics - Extensive quotations from the founding fathers of quantum mechanics rejecting materialism and embracing mysticism.
This entire reality is a thought, my friend. Everything we experience is mere illusion which we experience by choice. Consciousness is in fact the only thing that isn't an illusion. Once this is grasped by mainstream science, we will advance to the next paradigm- and I think it is about time.
@@dennisvvugt that is just a huge nonsensical word salad. you are the prime example of what dr. dunning and dr. kruger talk about.
@@louiscyfer6944 it's beyond the senses so it no - sense. not nonsense
A universal consciousness exists, to which we are all connected.
Three points. First, I was hoping Robert would have had someone discuss the position that at least part of our brain is like a TV that receives, not generates, consciousness. In this line of thinking, the brain can be “tuned” to receive different “levels” of consciousness. Second, there is considerable evidence that consciousness is non-local and therefore can extend through physical space (see some of Rupert Sheldrake’s talks). Third, interviewing someone like Bernardo Kastrup would have provided a radically different view to the materialists. According to Bernardo, not everything is conscious, but everything is immersed in consciousness. Anyway, thanks to Robert for this continuing series.
Good points.
There's more to learn in the comments, than from watching the video.
Of what are we conscious when cut off from all our senses?
It is not a helpful theory. Like the theory of an almighty God doesn´t explain anything and is not a helpful theory to predict anything. This theory of a transmitted consciousness only puts consciousness out of reach of any conclusions, but doesn´t explain or predict anything.
Since no evidence of a antenna structure has been found it must also create a unknown kind of energy/radiation on which to transmit consciousness, so that the antenna structure could be missed.
The brain as receiver argument just kicks the can down the road though. It just means there is something else that is conscious, but all the same questions and paradoxes apply to that something else as well.
@@REDPUMPERNICKEL
Ask someone who's died & been revived who percieved concsious experience & thought during or after their flatline, they might be able to tell you.
Once I had the chance to realize that there were layers to my consciousness. I was able to be aware of my own thoughts being produced as they were being produced. It was as if the thoughts weren’t actually being produced by me. I felt like there was an observing layer and a processing (producing) layer and there was some kind of feedback loop between them. It felt like my consciousness was more like the observer, and there was something that tricked the observer into accepting what the processor did was what I did, while it was all the processor automating and my consciousness was always in the back seat, watching. Perhaps “consciousness” is just a designation for the computational error of the brain when it is aware of itself being aware of itself being aware of itself? Can animals do this as well? What is the requirement for the brain to be self aware?
Sounds psychedelic. Thanks for sharing.
Sounds like you had a mild disassociative experience, which is normal. Most people experience them briefly from time to time. This is when you feel separated from yourself in some way. I experience them occasionally, where it feels not like I am doing things, but more like I am watching myself do things -- not out of body, but from within. Like I am just witnessing myself do things. It usually happens during times of stress. More specifically, when I am experiencing relief during a time of stress. Again, this is normal if sporadic and brief. If the episodes become prolonged and/or intense (to the point of doing dangerous things or even blacking out), it may be a sign of a mental disorder, but that is very rare.
When you started, I thought by 'layers of consciousness' you would be referring to the 'awakening' of progressively more aware states of consciousness that happen throughout maturity in your life. For example, when you are 3, you don't question where babies come from - you just take it for granted that "now there is a new person here" and that's good enough for your 3-year-old self, but then one day you suddenly realize where your baby brother came from *is a question* . Then, after years of simply taking for granted that you are YOU and no one else, you suddenly wake up and realize that _why_ you are you and not anyone else *is actually a question* . I am saying all this because you asked "What is the requirement for the brain to be self-aware?", which is a great question and is still being studied by scientists. Research "the mirror test" to learn more about how scientists study animals self-awareness. It doesn't provide a definitive answer (as does nothing in this subject of consciousness), but it's a start. It turns out that consciousness is probably a spectrum and that some species have members who are on one side of the dividing line or the other. It is not known why. Intelligence? Maybe, but the brain is more complicated than that.
Citizenship. Reflexive. Communitive. Commutative. Distributive. There is no identity among the reals. Complex I suppose.
@@leomdk939 I want to question the premise here that the brain can be aware. I don't think the brain can be aware. Rather I can only assume that consciousness is aware of the brain. I try to open myself to the materialists' view, but How can the physical neuronal connections be the source of consciousness, when a brain is an object of the subjectivity it claims to create? This seems like an impossibility. I do not think the materialist's view can stand up against this reality, but I am open to hearing something that could change my mind. I just don't know what that would be.
Can you help me with this please,
if consciousness is an illusion, what is perceiving the illusion? What we perceive might be an illusion, but is the perceiving itself an illusion? No way!
'I' is the first thought which is an illusion and then the body, universe , space and time are illusions. Everything perceived by 'I' is an illusion. Indian philosophy says this whole existence is MAYA( illusion ). It also says how to destroy this 'I' which is the root of all the thoughts.
If you dream of the moon...was the moon really there?
@@rynovait I do not agree. I think that is a great misinterpretation of Indian philosophy.
@@MrDesoto33 The moon might not be there but the very fact of dreaming (conscious experience) is undeniable.
@@Arunava_Gupta Ashtavakra Gita ,the ultimate book on Advaita Vedanta says 'The body, heaven and hell, bondage and liberation, and fear too, all this is pure imagination.'
Where the mind takes information gathered in brain and uses math and science to interpret; consciousness takes awareness in mind and uses language to experience reality. There could be development from consciousness to reality to experience to language to awareness to mind to scientific interpretation to math to information gathered in brain to physical reality.
I've always thought this was a silly idea. An illusion to what? Consciousness? You have to be conscious to perceive an illusion.
you are confusing illusion with allusion but perhaps English is not your first language
If I take you literally that would be untrue. You can train a neural net to recognise and classify optical illusions. It would not be conscious.
@@Ludifant cos we all know its been empirically established that behavior is equivalent to recognition......oh wait
Exactly, even tho 2 + 2 is factually 4. I can still create a mental statement in my mind saying 2 + 2 = 7,100,365. I'd be wrong, but I still have consciousness of having this thought in my mind. And I can have as many times as I want, because it's my mind. Also dreams at night. I'm conscious in them even though they are illusory.
I’m reposting my previous comment here in case you were still interested in this topic:
Some commenters here seem to misinterpret the term “illusion” in this context. For example, when we look around, we see the surroundings as if it was a picture. In really, what our eyes see is much messier and our brain creates this image of a picture by interpreting the signals from our eyes. So, this is an illusion that we really see as if it was a picture. This is a clear adaptation, because it is easier to function this way.
I think a similar process happens at the higher level, where now the whole brain creates an illusion of organized thoughts (consciousness), while in reality, there is a lot going on in the brain in quite messy way. This is also why we also have subconsciousness, consisting of the other, not so organized, thoughts. This does not mean that consciousness is not real, at least in the sense that we really experience those organized thoughts.
Somebody wrote that “Experiencing an Illusion REQUIRES consciousness.” But this is not how it works. We are not aware of this illusion, so we do not really experience it. This “illusion” and “consciousness” are the same thing. One does not experience the other.
EVEN "ILLUSION "IS PART OF CONSCIOUSNESS !
all this explainining away of consciousness basically ends in saying ”damn, that is one tasty illussion” after having a cup of coffee lol. Tho fair enough some would say ”oh no, I’m just saying consciousness is not entirely what it seems”. Right, so like everything else then? Jesus christ.
"For we shall forfeit everything before we know it, once the sciences of physics, physiology , and psychology, not to forget scientific philosophy, display the panoply of their documents and proofs, to explain to us that what we see and accept is properly not a tree but in reality a void, thinly sprinkled with electric charges here and there that race hither and yon at enormous speeds. It will not do to admit, just for the scientifically unguarded moments, so to speak, that, naturally, we are standing face to face with a tree in bloom, only to affirm the very next moment as equally obvious that this view, naturally, typifies only the naive, because pre-scientific, comprehension of things. For with that affirmation we have conceded something whose consequences we have hardly considered, and that is: that those sciences do in face decide what of the tree in bloom may or may not be considered valid reality. Whence do the sciences - which necessarily are always in the dark about the origin of their own nature - derive the authority to pronounce such verdicts? Whence do the sciences derive the right to decide what man’s place is, and to offer themselves as the standard that justifies such decisions? " (What is called thinking? - Martin Heidegger) Scientists are quite good at doing experiments and calculations, but they are often quite poor philosophers (especially physicists who tends to reduce reality to interactions between atomic particles, denying what is in front of their eyes).
@Stefano Portoghesi Lord Jesus demonstrated that our consciousness is not just the body and he demonstrated the powers of the Light Body integrated with the physical and that we exist beyond form.
The Universe is a part of consciousness. The Earth has consciousness but we can't perceive it.
So consciousness is either the answer or it is a question.. as in any other question? Abstract and to a degree illusory but in the best case an imaginary notion. You seem like you have to refute the latter? Is consciousness singular or compound? Where is it? When is it? Lovingly attacking the creamy heart of the matter.. 💕 it’s a beautiful mess age and a wonderful show Mr. Kuhn ⭐️
When Nick Humphrey said "consciousness is an illusion" and that he's a materialist, I knew immediately his views were a waste of time. Experiencing an Illusion REQUIRES consciousness. Consciousness is fundamental; everything else is derivative. Max Planck, the father of quantum physics, agreed.
consciousness is just the brain, nothing special lol
This was the moment, when I thought: great because I don´t like this metaphysic blabla.
Yes, of course, illusion is conscious thought misreflecting 'actuality'.
Being conscious is obviously an absolute prerequisite.
But the meaning of a word often depends a bit on culture.
It seems to me quite possible that,
in Nick Humphrey's high brow English circles,
'illusion' might simply be a way to say 'immaterial'.
(Of this everyone has an inkling who's struggled reading Shakespeare).
I eschew the word 'consciousness' though, whenever possible,
because seems to me its use unconsciously induces people to believe
that 'consciousness' has an existential status on a par with matter,
you know, conceived of as an actual something instead of what it really is,
the essence of abstraction.
I am a body which is something but I am also conscious which is not.
@@pipzog389 This seems very reductionist. Seems to end all inquisitiveness about the topic. I struggle with that.
The fundamental problem with that wild unreasoned assertion is that you have no idea what you mean by consciousness or seek to convey when you use the word.
This you are about to demonstrate by signally failing to set out what you mean by consciousness or seek to convey when you use the word
Consciousness, self-awareness and the sense of self are merely ultimate emergent properties arising from our human brain and senses. That does not mean however, in my view, that there is no reality beyond the physical materialist world. There are worlds within worlds and beyond worlds.
"That's why I thought long and hard about consciousness"
That's what she said.
A couple of thoughts:
It seems that at least a few of the interview subjects here are interpreting “consciousness is an illusion” as meaning “consciousness doesn’t exist.” _Illusion_ simply refers to something that isn’t what it appears to be. For most of us, consciousness _appears to be_ 1) localized, and 2) separate from the objects of perception and conception. But maybe what the eliminativists are saying is that consciousness is not a discrete field (i.e., it can’t be found in the head or anywhere else) and doesn’t arise independently of perception and conception.
If that’s what they mean by “consciousness is an illusion,” it’s actually right in line with the Buddhist notions of anatta and emptiness. In-depth meditation can reveal the mirage-like nature of what appears to be a localized experiencer moving within solid (self-existent) reality.
@16:55 “That a serious philosopher decides to flout science, and be intellectually pilloried, testifies to the extreme depth of the mystery of consciousness.”
This isn’t flouting science, it’s flouting scientific materialism. Science is the empirical study of nature. Scientific materialism is the belief that matter-or the laws governing it-has ontological primacy. Science goes on working exactly the same way regardless of what any of its practitioners believe about the fundamental nature of reality.
Well said. Science is the blameless study of the habits of nature. One can devise and conduct impeccable scientific protocols and be a theist, polytheist, agnostic or atheist. Materialism offers a closed metaphysical world view in which the conclusion is already decided, and only the working out remains. It's also ideological, with preferment to those who commit to its presuppositions, and an aim of conflating science with materialism in the public mind. There's no reason to believe probing synapses in the fatty tissue of the brain will reveal the nature of consciousness.
@@TheWorldTeacher I even think in one video with Raymond that one person he interviewed said that modern science came about from hatred it had toward the Church.
@@hyperduality2838 Virtual reality is reality and vice versa. Particle-Wave Duality is a myth.
@@TheWorldTeacher All beliefs in the supernatural lead to pessimism, stagnation, and dehumanization.
@@patmoran5339 You know, what you said is what I think of materialism.
Consioussnes is everything and it makes Everything an illusion which makes me feel so warm and I can't explain it more it makes me feel high everytime I think bout it.
You're name is spot on.
Consciousness is simply the state of your soul being awake. The mind is the soul.
hose consciousness and consciousness of *what*?
There can be no illusion(deceit or trick) without one to be deceived or tricked. That is axiomatic
Whose consciousness of what? You might as well just say stuff instead of consciousness if you do not identify who is consciousness and whose consciousness of what - because it is plainly have no idea what you mean by consciousness and will be just as well off using stuff instead of consciousness
Consciousness is being used to analyze what event(s) or thing(s) caused it to be.
To quote Planck, "We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing postulates consciousness."
NOW THAT WE KNOW THAT GOD IS DEAD, PEOPLE CAN STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR GOD. BUT MANY NOW WANT TO SUBSTITURE
CONSCIOUSNESS FOR THE SOUL SO THAT THEY CAN SOMEHOW SURVIVE THIS BODY. CONSCIOUSNESS IS JUST A FUNDAMENTAL
CHARACTERISTIC OF LIFE. EVEN AN AMOEBA IS CONSCIOUS. TREES ARE CONSCIOUS. WITHOUT LIVING ORGANISMS THERE IS
NO CONSCIOUSNESS.
@@willieflores7140
Not sure what you're trying to say. We almost all and always each have different meanings for words. This is true of ideas expressed also.
Also consider, just as the eye has blind spots, so do all of our minds. No-one has a perfectly functioning mind. And it's good this way! It is a product of all sentient entities, since the supernal, Universal and Timeless, MYSTERY must be maintained (for many vital reasons!), among the most essential is to preserve wonder and thrill, and also provide us with worthy challenge,.... not to mention love and Brotherhood.
THANK YOU FOR RESPONDING. THE QUESTION IS CONSCIOUSNESS. YOU ARE NOT SURE WHAT I AM SAYING, BECAUSE YOU SAY
THERE ARE DIFFERENT MEANINGS FOR WORDS. I WILL TELL YOU AGAIN WHAT I MEAN BY CONSCIOUSNESS, THEN YOU TELL
ME. WHAT I MEAN BY IT IS THAT IT IS THE SAME AS BEING ALIVE. IT IS THE SAME AS BREATHING. A DEAD PERSON HAS NO
CONSCIOUSNESS, BECAUSE THERE IS NO CONSCIOUSNESS OUTSIDE LIVING ORGANISMS. BUT MANY BELIEVE THAT IT IS LIKE
SOME UNIVERSAL SOUL. THERE IS NO GOD IN THE UNIVERSE, BUT MANY NOW WANT TO MAKE CONSCIOUSNESS THEIR GOD,
SO THAT THEY CAN SOMEHOW SURVIVE THIS BODY. WE CAN STILL HAVE LOVE AND BROTHERHOOD WITHOUT HAVING TO IMAGINE
SOME DISEMBODIED CONSCIOUSNESS OUTSIDE THAT OF LIVING THINGS.
@@willieflores7140
Hypnotherapy and a CIA/US Army program called remote viewing overwhelmingly prove that an individual's consciousness survives the body, as well as reincarnates.
Also, no need to use all caps, it's considered "shouting" online...unless your keyboard is stuck.
Consciousness is the soul awake, too simple.
The question is malformed. Does not make any sense to me. Consciousness is a thing, for what it's worth, to begin with that drives us to ask questions that may or may not be meaningful.
Consciousness is watching mind. Mind is asking questions. Mind is the thinker and shoots imaginations and brings up emotions. We are conscious observer of mind and it’s components
*The World Teacher - Jagadguru Svāmī Vegānanda* ,
Are you ?
to be or not to be is the only real question.
It is concievable that it could possible be a series of separate phenomena referencing a shared memory bank.
From a Vedic point of view, consciousness is sat-chit-ananda ( eternity that knows and loves itself ) to love yourself is to " know " yourself because you can't love yourself if you are not conscious of your self so love and self are concomitant. Knowing is the self's ontological nature and loving is it's dynamic nature. And being an eternal " in the now " reality that knows only " sameness " is the self's eternal nature. Being personalized eternity consciousness is beyond material cause and effect.
@@unitarysoup339 These are philosophical texts that make an attempt at understanding what our nature really is.
Calling it a propoganda is just a toxic mix of ignorance and arrogance.
Consciousness is your soul, nothing to do with love.
@@jeffforsythe9514 You can't love yourself if you are not conscious of yourself.
@@jeffforsythe9514 consciousness has nothing to do with the soul, coz there is no such thing as a soul
@@VarunSharma-pp5rg It is you, your soul, who is denying the existence of your soul, quite silly.
If it’s an illusion , is the best magic trick/ program ever devised to fool inanimate quantum fields.
who designed the trick?
@@bajajones5093 we did...we are GOD 😉..our little secret❤
@@InnerLuminosity that is the reply I was looking for::::)))). I fully agree with you. We are God. I agree
Pls let me explain it now
Consioussnes is an illusion
Everytime we do things we move things with our brain
And it moves electrons by itself and that is what matters it's not a magic trick it's just experience of vibration which happen within our brain itself ok.
Jesus said “ you are all gods”
I feel fresher and more clear in my brain during spring season. The feeling is qualitatively different. I wonder why.
Thanks very much for this series. Your statements ( " Either our non-material sense of consciousness is an illusion or consciousness is a glimpse of non-physical reality." ) at the of video are profound!
What is on-physical reality" ? For that mater what is "physical" reality?
What is it abourteither that makes them *Real*?
What is it about*any* reality which makes it *real^?
Is it not true that what is "real" for A may not be " real" for B?
@@vhawk1951kl did you just spam report my comments or something? I got a message from youtube at the exact same time you replied
It's great to have someone like this who's attempting to piece together the esoteric without the mind numbing and misleading accent placed on materialism in order to undermine spiritualism; which is the MSM construct. So, kudos to Robert for his exhaustive efforts to look for the answers in order to help enlighten those of us with an open mind.
Keith Jones but what is the brain if not a grouping of particles which are epiphenomenon of waves? We are waves and waves fill the entire universe. How do we know the universe does not hold a different type of consciousness? Maybe a powerful one
Whom here is not a lying materialist?
Be careful your brain does not fall out.
What is the MSM construct?
@Keith Jones that's what you asume, it's not what you know. what is left is pure Consciousness, not even darkness no (thing)
like in deep sleep. just Consciousness without content pure. but if there's is nothing to see or hear. but that's doens't mean
that Consciousness is not aware of itself??? They never found a Consciousness in a brain? there is only a corrolation.
you cannot control your thought cuz there not your's simple. Try to stop thinking for 20 seconds good luck.
Very appreciated interviews/discussions, thank you
Consciousness seeks itself.. the endless journey. :) Enjoy it.
Consciousness is simply one's soul not sleeping.
First define " conscious", to which end it may help you to discover its etymology. It comes from two Latin words the latin for'with'(con) and the latin for I know(scio), con and sciere respectively, thus its etymology is with knowledge from there comes the question who knows what?
If people knew how to grasp for themselves what
passes in their thoughts when they hear or use the word
”conscious or consciousness” then most of them would have to admit-if of course they intended to be sincere-that the word carries
no exact notion whatever for them. Catching by ear simply the accustomed consonance, the meaning of which
they assume that they know, it is as if they say to themselves “Ah, consciousness, I know what this is,” and serenely go
on thinking.
Should one deliberately arrest their attention on this
word and know how to probe them to find just what they
understand by it, they will at first be plainly as is said
“embarrassed,” but quickly pulling themselves together,
that is to say, quickly deceiving themselves, and recalling
the first definition of the word that comes to mind, they
will then offer it as their own, although, in fact, they had
not thought of it before.
True, or not true?
@@vhawk1951kl Most are lost in thoughts, definitions, positions and perspectives. What we truly seek is simply to be, to experience. No words are ultimately adequate to express it. :)
@@vhawk1951kl When we are lost in thoughts, definitions, positions and perspectives we cannot see what it is to just be. What we truly seek is simply to be. Much love, friend :)
My life's ambition is to be wandering through a park in London ( or some other ancient seat of learning ) on a
glorious Autumn afternoon and suddenly to see Richard seated on a park bench pondering the Mysteries of Life.
Why?
For me consciousness is definitely about what i experience when I wake up in the morning; open the window to the grey sky and the sound of builders drilling, and trip down the stairs, twisting my ankle, finally laying prostrate in the hallway for a brief moment of anguished yet pyrrhic silence broken so gently by the faint clatter of overdue bill payment letters posted through the letterbox in the porch...
The physical world is not the only place you can be conscious. You can be conscious in dreams when your asleep, you can even be conscious while in deep sleep. I have family that can answer questions even though their dead-asleep. The answers I get back mostly don't make sense. But they are still conscious on some level.
Bravo, finally a realist; nothing vague or mysterious about pain eh?
Dear Mr. Kuhn,
There is no meaning in all these qustions I analyse, viz. "Free will, consciousness, Truth, ... ", so long as I haven't defined "I" as a particular sequence of particles and specify a definite criterion of proof related to satisfaction of my needs to verify the accuracy of the theory I assume as to the origin of those particles.
These are the kind of people that savor the smell of their own farts
Only after I’ve eaten eggs my friend. Come over...
I have a good feeling you say this exact thing about many people and try to fit it into any part of your day thinking it's amusing.
@@moonraker7381 Sounds like you're some kind of psychic.
@@CarnivalofLVX nope.
not when ive had a curry
I feel compelled to trot out my "random guy" thoughts once again.
Clearly consciousness is not an illusion. That which MAY be an illusion is how we define it. I'm with Galen Strawson on this to a great extent. Consciousness is easy to define, it is "first person experience", nothing more, nothing less. Consciousness, it seems to me, is purely and simply "the act of observation" and I mean this in the most literal, universal and comprehensive sense. To be clear, it is my belief that consciousness is a fundamental part of the universe (and may well just be the requisite condition and result of events occuring) and that it ONLY observes the brain doing ALL it's meat machine brain things and has no causitive power whatsoever. I maintain that the idea that our consciousness is the motive, and causitive agent of our actions is the deep illusion.
Like the lady said; "You're not here to make decisions Neo, you're here to witness them." (paraphrased by me)
Consciousness is watching mind. Mind is asking questions. Mind is the thinker and shoots imaginations and brings up emotions. We are conscious observer of mind and it’s components
*The World Teacher - Jagadguru Svāmī Vegānanda* I believe that as well
If it only observes the brain (and therefore can't influence it), how come that our brain can be aware of it and allow us to discuss it?
@@ronniedahlgren2733 I've tackled with this very issue and thanks for raising it.
There are a number of "priors" I need to address first, priors which you may or not accept. So other than those stated in my original post up there, I posit that human brains evolved to make use of "consciousness", whatever that turns out to be. So it may turn out for instance that the brain evolved in such a way that it could create utility out of the ability to show consciousness certain things (because it clearly doesnt show consciousness everything, and that which it does show, it does so selectively). It's already building models inside itself to allow itself to interpret the world via the sense information that it can receive so, maybe it turns out that using "consciousness" as a mirror, or a bouncing board which it can then assess further is an evolutionary advantage. Maybe it turns out that if the meat machine kids itself into fully identifying as the mirror ("consciousness") some evolutionary benefit is gained.
Anyway sorry for the long text, hope I got across my thoughts coherently.
Robert, I don't know if you read these comments, but what you said in the intro is exactly how I feel. I cling on to the hope that consciousness is something real, something very special, and something that will survive. But I understand that I might be biased. These are heavy questions, and I hope the truth isn't that we no longer will be after this life. That would be a tragedy, and the thought of such a potential outcome weighs heavy on the heart. You expressing yourself the way you did, and probably saying what a lot of us feel, makes me feel a little less lonely about this question I think. Because you rarely find that you talk about this stuff with people in everyday life... unfortunately not even with good friends.
Hey Abu... I like your observations. I feel much the same. I like your comment that we rarely find ourselves talking about these things in everyday life. I wish I had a good friend to share these questions with.
@@johnbrzykcy3076 agree
Other animals have consciousness. Do you think their consciousness continues to exist after this life. Will the pig who was murdered so you could have a sausage seek revenge?
@@publiusovidius7386 I don't eat pork.
hose consciousness and consciousness of *what*?
You have no idea whatsoever what you mean by consciousness, or what you seek to convey when you use the term or what it conveys to you when you hear or read it.
This you are about to demonstrate by signally failing to set out what you mean by consciousness or what you seek to convey when you use the word, without resort to cognates or synonyms or psychological algebra or x-y-x, where x and y have no value or meaning, you simply substitute one unknow for another unknow.
Owing to the loss of the capacity to ponder and reflect, consciousness'
only by its consonance, he does not pause to think, nor
does there even arise in him any question as to what exactly is meant by this word, he having already decided,
once and for all, both that he knows it and that others
know it too.
I think the term 'illusion' is being somewhat misunderstood. It's not that the thing we describe as an illusion doesn't exist, it's that the interpretation is what's the illusion. When an animal such as a cat looks into a mirror it may perceive what it sees to be another cat. The reflection is quite real, the illusion being that there is another cat looking back at it. So consciousness is real, just what it is or how we describe it (or feel it to be) is the illusion. And as an added note, since the universe existed for quite some time without life, I do not believe consciousness is a requirement for reality.
How can Consciousness arise out of dead matter? Makes no God damn sense
Materialists love to try to "reason" everything with their mind
I get it. The mind has its place and purpose (which is survival)
So anything OUTSIDE of that is frightening to the mind/ego
You'll find out when death comes, you were God the entire time just dreaming itself as a form
The mind cannot understand the Infinite
The biggest obstacle to realizing God is you(your ego/mind)
Justin C
Yaaa , that’s about the best we can figure. I’m always thincking about consciousness.
Affirmative...✊🏿
Man is the finite..
For man to fullly comprehend the INFINITE..
Will only reduce the infinite to his finite limited mind.
U nailed it big time✌🏿💯
Yes, I now start to understand these people, they are just at the beginning of their path , like everyone else
the real conscious truth is that everyone hasnt even had an cosmic experience so therefore you dont know u are just speaking on what you know of but you dont know that personally
@@jyddn8765 ha ha ur one of those , for u , if u didnt have a consciuos awakening how would u know if any someone has one ?
If consciousness is merely apparent (an illusion), then what is it that to which this illusion appears? If I am being deceived by my brain, then I (that which is being deceived) cannot be identical with my brain, for a subject (I) and its object (consciousness) are mutually exclusive concepts.
Hey Russell... I like your perspective. Very interesting and makes sense.
But the meaning of a word often depends a bit on culture.
It seems to me quite possible that,
in Nick Humphrey's high brow English circles,
'illusion' might simply be a way to say 'immaterial'.
(Of this everyone has an inkling who's struggled reading Shakespeare).
If in actuality my self, i.e. that-which-is-conscious,
is in essence a dynamic and very complex thought process
(for which the material living brain serves as substrate)
and
that-of-which-my-self-can-be-conscious
are thoughts external to my self i.e. unconscious
(for which the material living brain serves as substrate)
then
one could easily imagine that, when the self is in a mode,
the changes made to the self by unconscious thoughts
might be what we mean by the word conscious.
(If those unconscious thoughts originate in the senses
then we could say that is how the self becomes conscious
of the world around us.
If those unconscious thoughts originate in memory
then we could say that is how the self becomes conscious
of the past.
If those unconscious thoughts are the result of unconscious processing
of both sense and memory as input,
then we could say that is how the self recognizes things.
etc.).
Thus my self is not my brain but
my self is what my brain is doing
and, obviously, my self is completely dependent for its being
on my brain's existence for,
without my brain, there could be no doing.
After thinking about it for a moment one might realize
that the existence of the brain and the existence of its behavior
are radically different kinds of existences.
The kind of existence that 'doing' has is responsible for our
feeling that our minds and our thoughts are immaterial.
Yes?
Consciousness of what?-Unless you are specific about that, consciousness is meaningless- you don't even know what the word means , nor its etymology. Dreams are true while-they-last. Can you say more of life?
But what if the illusion of the illusion is an illusion?
Reality. Lol
5 pain and that will tell you whether it is real or not
Thank you dear Michael Love and All Benevolent and Inter Galactic Friends, for this very valuable and joyful transmission. I am Bkessrd yo have gone this far and to witness the Golden Age. I thank your Divine Supreme Crestor snd Father for all his blessings. Thank you All for your Unconditional Love to All Humanity and our dear beloved Gaia. With Love and Gratitude in my Heart ❤️❤️❤️🙏🙏🙏🌈🌈🌈🌹🌹🌹
Closer to the Truth never gets any closer to the truth, and I'm not the first to notice that.
LMAO TRUE
Some of the most interesting and clear thinking contributors yet assembled in a single episode ... I was
so relieved Deepak Chopra didn't turn up !
Yes! 👍
Might have been worse ? !
Eckhart Tolle could have popped
up spouting his drivel.!
Deepak relation to Consciousness is like Reality TV relation to art!
Yes
I am not the voice in my head, I am the one who hears it.
the thing is, when we finally have all the answers, know everything there is to know - we still are thrown back to same task: having a fun day with our loved ones. No understanding of reality or consciousness will make you better at this, you just have to put your time into this.
at 6:50 in the video the Godhead proceeds to play the ultimate game of hide and seek of the Self.
It's amazing to watch. It might fool the initiate, but for I, I recognise this mirror instantly
Can you be more clear please?
@@eirref he talking bout the elder scrolls universe i think
Can you be less clear please?
@@eirref If you search Alan Watts he goes into this description of God playing hide and seek with himself. Basically the idea is God is experiencing itself in all of these different subjective experiences, limiting itself to basically discover itself through like what Charles said of a game of hide and seek.
Everyone should read Alan Watts’s “The Book.”
great show Doc Kuhn, subs growing as they should. many thanks for your work. Grazie Brother....
What could precognition tell us about the nature of consciousness, time, and free will?
ask a silly question, get a non-answer.
How coud a dreaming machine or ordinary man like you and I have ant kind of will let alons freee will?
Men (humam beings) are the slaves of their functions, and in particular of their emotions which are no more than likes and dislikes, wants and not_wants. Slaves cannot have will, free or otherwise. When you can want what you do not want, or like what you do not like, then- and*only* then can you speak of will free or otherwise.
@@vhawk1951kl Makes sense
At 85 I remember when at nine months (time confirmed by my mother) I became conscientiously, conscient and started to talk. I am working in my mind, to determine what makes consciousness starting from my real experience. To follow.
Oh how I relish hearing these questions put to brilliant minds, and their well-considered answers. The only problem is that we come away with few real insights, and mostly rather useless opinions. All without a great deal of good science to research further. Admittedly, consciousness is a most complex topic. It may never be possible to say much more than has already been said about it. At least I admire the effort.
Exactly, I hear these guys talking & it's all pure opinion except the materialist of course
It is "purely opinion" precisely because It is something still unexplained by the orthodox, empirical, and known terms from science...
"You can't experience anything except through thought. You can't experience your own body except through the help of thought. The sensory perceptions are there. Your thoughts give form and definition to the body, otherwise you have no way of experiencing it. The body does not exist except as a thought. There is one thought. Everything exists in relationship to that one thought. That thought is "me". Anything you experience based on thought is an illusion." ( U. G. Krishnamurthy, 'Mind is a Myth' ).
Thoughts themselves are being experienced. You're totally lost...
Consciousness is the soul, what is so difficult to understand?
If that be right, I suggest you test it by hitting your thumb with a hammer.
That pretty much disposes of "You can't experience anything except through thought."
The truth of the matter is that you have no idea what you mean by "thought" as you are about to demonstrate by signally failing to set out what you mean by " thought".
What makes you think you are capable of thought? That all you do is randomly associate and chatter to yourself like some monkey and what comes out of that particular monkey is complete gibberish as you would expect of a monkey
This is the best YT channel i have ever watched.
I feel compelled to add my two cents and maybe even more by composing some sort of essay about my two cents at some point. But right here and now I’ll offer this. In physical reality we are compelled to use analogies. The best analogy for consciousness and spiritual essence, is the ocean of one love or one consciousness. But from there I have yet to hear of anyone talking about or taking the next step in this imperfect analogy. And that step would be to compare the cycles of life and death and the associated consciousness with the water cycle. In my personal belief, which arises from my personal experiences. I believe that the moment of conception is analogous to condensation. And as conception occurs, rainfall begins. This is your birth. As a single rain drop falls, this is your life. As that single rain drop hits the ground, this is your death.
And as that rain drop joins with other rain drops and flows through the streams and rivers back to the ocean, this is your spiritual journey. A journey which can include lakes or just ponds, aquifer's , glaciers and any number of other features. But which will eventually culminate with your return to the ocean of one, where you will relinquish your sense of self. And at some point during your cycling through the ocean of One, you will be condensated once again. And just where you might arrive at, on the wheel of time and consciousness, is unknowable. And whether or not science can ever explain this phenomenon is unclear and a part of the mystery.
The parts of this video in which people are walking make me feel that I am almost unconscious.
I love this series👏👏🙏🙏
if only some adult would take those asinine infantile symbols away from you children- when you use(abuse ) them you might as well say I am a baby monkey.
@RobertLawrenceKuhn such an extraordinarily wonderful series. Please investigate the [Consciousness] Virtual Reality Theory of Everything of Tom Campbell
I like the Television receiver analogy…The TV is not producing the screenplay, the actors the direction of the Movie or sitcom…or PBS show Closer to Truth..….it is simply designed to receive a signal that carries that ….If you damage the set the images and sound are diminished until it no longer can receive the program…but the program still exists in the ether…
I like how everyone thinks they have the answers.
Yes we have an electrical soul that lives forever . I’ve experienced. this maybe what people call consciousness . It’s. Us. It lives in this flesh suit for now . My opinion
But wat bout animals do they have souls as well
Yes and no. Is x greater than 0? Depends on what x is. The answer depends on how we define consciousness (C). There is also the definite possibility that C is undefinable -- somewhat like the halting problem and the incompleness of formal mathematical (and in extension mental) axiomatic systems.
Raymond Tallis seems like an incredibly educated, very intellectual gentleman. I shall try and find more about and from him.
Many thanks to Dr Kuhn for providing forums like this, where foundational questions are discussed. So rare. Personally I find the “consciousness is an illusion” very faulty, almost absurd. It is very difficult to build a bridge between materialism and consciousness as materialism is commonly understood. But materialism itself has undergone repeated stages of profound revision. Newtonian mechanics, electromagnetic fields, relativity, quantum mechanics, non locality, are all major revisions of materialism. So to limit materialism to what cannot explain consciousness, is to close off future expansions of concepts of materialism, which may include consciousness.
I think the title is a joke , consciousness is the only true reality , materialism/physicalism is the ilusion .
é isso aí Marcos!
Exactly
Yup
Agree!
Physicalism is not the same as materialism. Physicalists claim that consciousness *is* real and that it is intrinsic to the nature of the universe: it is, therefore, also physical in a non-materialist way. Subjective experiences are a part of the universe. See: www.physicalism.com/
I don’t understand the argument that consciousness appears to us as existing outside of time and space. What does this mean? I don’t experience my consciousness existing outside of spacetime at all. I don’t know what that would look like. In other words, it might be an illusion but I don’t feel illuded. What am I missing?
Robert, I appreciate you effort to announce and compensate for you bias toward an immortal soul. I am someone who does not want to survive past death, and am just counting the days to finish this incarnation. So even with the opposite bias from you, I still can't rule out the possibility of waking up somewhere else in space or time after I close my eyes for the last time. What bugs me is that I don't know how I got here in the first place. Like most humans, I slowly became aware of existing during early childhood, with no memory of the process that stuck me here. The most likely scenario is that this life is a one-off and I will wink out like any other beast at the appointed time. One consolation for me is the knowledge that all of the memories of this sad existence are contained in this brain, so if I do have the misfortune of having to live another life, I won't carry the pain from this one to the next. I'm sure you've realized that there are no answers for your questions, but the asking has it's own value. Keep up the good work Robert.
Consciousness is a feeling devolped, a condition to what our brain trains us by virtue of multiple experinces through which we pass in our daily life. None of us remembers the pain we passed through at time of birth. Realization of myself only developes within early years of childhood, as our brain developes aided by sensations, again produced by brain, which in turn depend on chemical actions and electrical signals, between brain and sensations of multiple organs. It all that experience with time through which we pass and most importantly the memory celld, which record those feelings. Try to get feeling of a elderly passing through final stage of alzheimer disease. Onr who has forgotten himself. Where is his consciousness. In the absence of coordinated memory cells, there is no "I".
@@azharmasood57
I differ with you. There is one thing that we have in common, which is awareness, awareness of the universe, awareness of the source of the universe, awareness is the beginning of the universe. Perhaps we are considered an embodiment of the Creator of the universe.
.
Who trains maybe heaven and hell on earth
If you’ve ever had your ego absolutely melted by psychedelics you understand how tenuous the sense of self actually is.
This is in response to @23:10 especially.
Moreover you may well struggle to express yourself coherently thereafter, but the uncharitable might content themselves with res ipsa loquitur.
The fundamental and relatively simple question at the bottom of all this empty blather about wholly undefined terms is as follows:
Can a mirror reflect itself or a man escape from, or catch, his own shadow? Self evidently you cannot you the device you use to apprehend examine or study anything to apprehend study or examine itself- and no more can you stand on your own shoulders or beat the ace of trumps with any other card, or remove from a table something that is not on the table. All this nonsense about so-called " near death" experiences" is -and can only possibly be, gibberish, for how would anyone be able to tell by experience that he was " near"(whatever that is supposed to mean) death? It is axiomatic that one that has no experience of whatever death my or might be, cannot possibly tell whether or not he is "near" it. suppose you say to him where you ever near elsoomidflitch? Would he not be bond to tell that having no idea of what elsoomidflitch is or might be, he is in no position to tell you..
Simply elsoomidflitch for death, and there is your answer:All so-called " near death" experiences are- and can only possibly be fantasy, or tantamount to saying that you just saw a unicorn. or a blue square root of minus two or a green Wednesday afternoon. A man can no more experience being "nearly dead" than a woman can be nearly pregnant or an object nearly unique. You are either dead or not dead- nearly cannot come into it. There is simply no basis for comparison.
It's a crazy feeling. You go from being one or separate from the world to being everything and everywhere.
@@vhawk1951klnot hard to put a mirror in front of another mirror...
@@enterpassword3313 Shrug, go away.
I had a dream that i was talking with a group of people. then at one point i realized i was dreaming .
I told the people that they were not real. and if i awoke they would all be dead.
The look of fear and despair on their faces was as real as it gets.
That's deep. What a crazy dream.
@@TheWorldTeacher thank you/ much love.DAN.
If you realized that you were dreaming, then why did you tell to IMAGINARY people that they wold be "dead"? The look of fear and despair on their faces was your projecton, like they were your projecton, and the whole dream too. You realized you were dreaming, but went on cheating yourself!
PS - you can't realize that you are dreaming and truly believe that you are talking to "someone" in the dream, unless you are sharing your dream with someone you know in the awake life. And in the morning you meet that person and say "do you remember what we did last night in the dream?", and your friend answers "yes, it was so fun, let's do it again this night!".
It s possible to share dreams, especially if you become aware that you are dreaming.
@@TheWorldTeacher The waking state is indistinguishable to the dream state because our waking state is covered by mental projections - we are dreaming even when we are "awake"! An aware person has no necessity to dream neither when he sleeps (unless he decides to) nor when he is awake, and clearly distinguishes the dream state from the waking state. The waking state is "real" to him, because his sensory perception is not covered by mental projections. If your mind is still, what you perceive when you are awake is "fact" and not illusion (mental projection over the fact) - it is as "real" as a perceived world can be.
No matter how sophisticated it may be, an idea is never the thing in itself. A highly complex idea about a bird neither sings nor flies. Therefore, knowledge is and will always be incomplete. It is impossible to measure what consciousness is. It is immeasurable and therefore infinite and timeless. There are no two infinities. Consciousness is one, and the instruments of consciousness reflect it to varying degrees. When all ideas become still, through the understanding that they are limited, there is pure awareness, which is our true nature. Only consciousness is true happiness, because it is complete.
The idea that consciousness is an illusion is just silly. In order for someone to HAVE and illusion, by definition, it necessarily requires consciousness. I agree with Kamalmanzukie's comment below.
Moreover, it's similar to saying you can doubt the existence of the self, but who is doing the doubting?
Devote an entire session with Rupert Sheldrake.
I sure hope it’s real or what’s the point?
I heard a quote from Tyson Fury (Heavyweight Boxing Champ) saying, "I hope to God a part of me lives forever" and I agree with him.
The point is for survival. The opposite of survival is not surviving in our local environment. 99.9% of living things have gone extinct due to environmental factors and non benefical evolutionary traits/functions. Therefore, things change over time to adapt to environments for optimal survival. Consciousness is a byproduct of evolutionary changes over a long period of time. One must possess the hardware to produce consciousness to have it. I hope that helps.
@@dustinellerbe4125 Well yeah, I sorta agree. I think all life goes deeper than what we believe on a concrete surface. The Earth has a consciousness.
It’s real
@@cholobok good thoughts. The splitting of an atom can be explained. The nature of these processes can be used in everyday life. This is where physics, chemistry, and biology come into play. The answers are there if you are willing to study them in depth. All is chemical. Chemicals have changes and reactions. Therefore, different reactions and different chemicals yield different products.
Excellent Sam Harris podcast on the topic of consciousness, #96, an interview with Thomas Metzinger. Well worth the time if you want to consider it deeply.
Great interviews, thanks!
Thank you, for sharing a great Body of data, on Power of the Mind., Consciousness is more Real than this reality., 🧠💡🌟.
Consciousness is the soul awake. Period.
This proves that with only thinking you can't get closer to the TRUTH🙏❤🙏
We are someones roboets. They switch us off & on as they choose. Just as we do our iron & washing machine. The switch off time for us is for essential repairs. Then the puppet master gives us tthe illusion of higer roborts ie we can switch ourselves off = we decide when to go to sleep & when to stay up all night. Part of the illusion of control.. When the essential repairs is in a crucial stage. We switch off & say. I cant keep my eyes open. Summary,: we are someone's roberts.
Nooe
Whose truth? If you suffer pain that is true as can be for you, but not for anyone else, so whose truth?
Why is the material world not enough? Where lies the disappointment? I ask because I find great comfort in reality. Spirituality is the illusion from my perspective. I'm wondering if it has anything to do with our processing of perceptual information requiring an emotional response in order to be recognized in our consciousness, as in Capgras syndrome? The fact that we hold such divergent perspectives suggests to me that some part of our mental processing is making us feel as we do.
Regardless, I enjoy hearing what you and your guests have to say. Thanks.
Consciousness is to know, it’s the collection of everything that has happened. Consciousness changes with time. As time unwinds consciousness grows. Consciousness is. Time is. The two are the same. Time is governed by gravity and consciousness is governed by time. The two go hand in hand. Keeping it simple consciousness is a collection of data that is stored within time!! We were blessed by our creator with the ability to understand/read that data which is why we know consciousness and therefore we are conscious!!
Consciousness is flow of energy
this channel is Amazing
Love and appreciate your show. Thanks for making it public during the pandemic, it really helps. ✌️
It's very entertaining.
It was public before the pandemic. No thanks needed.
To me, consciousness is just the flavor of information.
That last statement was really powerful
In the question of "Is Consciousness an Illusion?", it doesn't make sense to use the word "Illusion" in that question.
The definition of an Illusion is something which doesn't appear to be what it is. When you use the word "Illusion", you're defining something in relation to that thing which is considered to be real.
For example, on a hot summer's day, the road at a distance looks like there's water on it since it appears wet. Getting closer to the road, you then realize that the wetness you saw before was a mirage or an illusion. Since you're calling the wetness you saw before an illusion, then it's an illusion of what? Well, it's an illusion of water where water is considered to be a real thing and what you saw before was not real, thus an illusion.
To call consciousness an illusion, then what in relation to consciousness is it an illusion of?
Good question! Does anyone have an answer to that question?
I agree that "Is Consciousness an Illusion?" is a silly question because as the gentleman stated at 21:55, "Consciousness cannot be an illusion of course, because to have the illusion of being conscious, is being conscious.".
@@kevincooper8232 But the meaning of a word often depends a bit on culture.
It seems to me quite possible that,
in Nick Humphrey's high brow English circles,
'illusion' might simply be a way to say 'immaterial'.
(Of this everyone has an inkling who's struggled reading Shakespeare).
Consciousness is not an illusion, but it enables illusions. Nick is on target as is Julian.
Qualia, subjective experience, feelings, and emotions are created by the brain. Anthony is on target.
This question of consciousness may be the most unanswerable riddles. We all say these are my hands, my feet, my eyes, my soul, my brain. What part of us do all these things belong to? Our consciousness is as ethereal as a ghost but with us every second of every day. I think our minds are the most complicated things and we have a much better chance to completely understand a black hole before our minds are unlocked
How exactly would you formulate "the 'question' of consciousness? Exactly who is the "we" in we *all* say these are my hands, my feet, my eyes, my soul you and which specific identifiable immediate interlocutor?
Is there a "we"?
If you say "my" hat you supose what?-That there is a possessor(whoever says my) and a possessed(the hat)but do not suppose possessor and possessed to be one and the same thing, or do you? Whichever it has nothing to do with knowledge; consciousness meaningwith_knowledge, or having to do with knwledge which knower and what specific known.There is no magic in the word consciousness or whatever the word indicates-there is nothing ooo spooky or mysterious about the experience that is called knowledge or knowing, but you may sensibly enquire which is knower and which known, and if there is a sensible question about the nature and qualities of the knower, there is no profit in turning that question into the corpse of a question or answer- that is the end of that, although you may well enquire into whether or not the experiencer can experience itself and simultaneous wonder how that differs from "can a mirror reflect itself, but that has little to do with the tateofwith_knowledge_ness or consciousness, which is merely a word for a species of direct immediate personal experience, or *Knowledge*.
There is reason to suppose that there is any complicated or particularly mysterious about the experience that is called knowing which is simply direct immediate personal experience-as direct immediate and personal as pain; it is simply silly to throw your skirts over your head and run round in circles simply be cause the word consciousness is used; conscious meaning with_knowledge and the state of experiencing with_knowledge consciousness; drunk-having had to much to drink, drunken_*ness* the state of having had too much to drink, and no-one says drunkenness ooo spooky and mysterious at the mere mention of the word drunkenness or just drunk, as they do consciousness, which is merely and simply a species of knowledge.
By all means enquire into the nature of knowledge or exactly what you are doing when you*Know* during which enquiry you may encounter different species of knowing; plainly there is a world of difference between knowing that the battle of Hastings took place in the year 1066, and the kind of knowing you experience when you hit your thumb with a hammer but both are frequently referred to as knowing if not being the same type of knowing that the thing on the end of your left leg is your left foot, which knowing or knowledge few would describe as justified true belief, as Mr. Gettier rather oddly puts it.
Many would say that there is bot the slightest element of belief in knowing that the thing on the end of your left leg is your left foot, and might say "I am "conscious" of the thing on the end of my left leg being my left foot and few would suppose there to me anything mysterious - or ooo spooky about that and the it's-all-very-mysterious brigade tend to witter on about nonsense like "cosmic(cosmos is no more and no les than a Greek cognate of universe{which being an universal can only be imaginary}consciousness which is the sort of bulllshit epithet which the it's-all-very-mysterious tend to invent, because such loons suppose consciousness to be something *other* than knowledge or direct immediate personal experience, and it simply*Isn't*.Conscious being the Latin for with(con) combined with the Latin infinitive(sciere-to know and or the first person singular of that infinitive (scio-I know), giving with_I know con_I know or simply with knowledge.
*All* English words with s c i in them, science(just means knowledge)conscious and conscience-also with_knowledge(nothing to do with all that right/wrong morality/ethics religious mumbo jumbo)
When you awaken you leave a state of unconsciousness or sleep. Consciousness, and Buddha simply means one that is awake or conscious .It is not either or conscious or not, but rather more or less.
Men(human beings)observably spend their lives n a state of dreaming, hypnotises(means sentosleep)by identification or attachment and thus they are off away with the fairies most of thetime, and thos that dream are asleep, and one cam see that they are asleep or semi-conscious at best and there is something absurd about screamers speaking of consciousness, which is rather like fish discussing the merits of bicycles
The terrifying thing is that they drive cars, fly aeroplanes and govern counties is their almost permanent state of dreaming which is semi-consciousness, and if you attract their attention in someway they will admit that they were miles away, asleep or simply not present-although *appearing* to be awake, and they have all sorts of words for what are no more and no less than dreams- they call them the past or the future or thinking or planning, but on reality they are dreaming Conscious or with_knowledge that I *am*..... *Here*.. *Now* which can sometimes be experienced by moments, but *Not* merely for the wishing alone.
When my attention is taken (or being eaten)I....... am ....... asleep. There is simply no other word for it. "Man has two possibilities-*Not more*;Eat or be eaten."
I like the idea you presented at the end of the video. Consciousness is a glimpse into a nonphysical world .
7:38 - He should have asked, "So who is the composer?" instead of "Who is the conductor?" :)
Nobody
He should have asked, "Who is the audience?"
He should have asked: can I ask Askworth? Or answered: can I answer Answerson? Either answer would have been askworthy; and either ask would have been answertainty.
If consciousness is an illusion, wouldn't every scientific conclusion that consciousnesses has ever made also be on the chopping block? Otherwise I guess you'd have an illusion making conclusive statements about things that aren't (presumably) an illusion. Why should the illusions that are us, trust any of the conclusions that the illusion that are us, have made?
madmax2976 Exactly what I’ve been thinking, illussionism is completely incoherent.
The best conclusion here. Anyone who claims things like "my life is an illusion" would be considered a serious candidate for the sanatorium. Because scientists seem smart, for they do great calculations and experiments, they can say crazy things and continue to teach at universities as normal people. Being a scientist is sometimes the best way to be very crazy and still be admired by people (because they think you're so smart and that's why they can't understand the crazy things you say, they think it's something that only people with high IQ understand).
@Stefano Portoghesi @Stefano Portoghesi if the human brain (and also that of animals) is an accident ... what a great accident it is! It's easier for a plane to explode in the air and, during its fall, these pieces fit together randomly to form a plane again. "These are facts resulting from observations, mathematical models, measurements and laboratory tests that are proven or refuted by scientific methods and not by human 'consciousness'." It would be nice if you have some concrete example of observations not made by a conscious being with the use of its consciousness.
@Stefano Portoghesi Normally I'd suspect there was a consciousness that arrived at the conclusion that scientific conclusions aren't made by conscious beings. Likewise with traits like ego, things being "tough", being objective, desiring pleasure and reassurance - all typically understood to be traits of a consciousness. Fortunately you've enlightened us with the possibility that your conclusion required no consciousness and that your assertions may just be mindless events rather than conscious considerations. For some odd reason in your case, I'm inclined to agree.
Great message!
I feel compelled to add my two cents and maybe even more by composing some sort of essay about my two cents at some point. But right here and now I’ll offer this. In physical reality we are compelled to use analogies. The best analogy for consciousness and spiritual essence, is the ocean of one love or one consciousness. But from there I have yet to hear of anyone taking the next step in this imperfect analogy. And that step would be to compare the cycles of life and death and the associated consciousness with the water cycle. In my personal belief which arises from my personal experiences. I believe that the moment of conception is analogous to condensation. And as conception occurs, rainfall begins. This is your birth. As a single rain drop falls, this is your life. As that single rain drop hits the ground, this is your death.
And as that rain drop joins with other rain drops and flows through the streams and rivers back to the ocean, this is your spiritual journey. A journey which can include lakes or just ponds, aquifer's , glaciers and any number of other features. But which will eventually culminate with your return to the ocean of one, where you will relinquish your sense of self. And at some point during your cycling through the ocean of one you will be condensated once again. And just where you might arrive at, on the wheel of time and consciousness, is unknowable. And whether or not science can ever explain this phenomenon is unclear and a part of the mystery.
All thoughts are metaphorical and
since metaphors are abstract entities,
'the self',
which is a rather complex thought,
must be an abstract entity.
Being abstract is what gives the self its immaterial flavour.
Illusion? You can never catch me! I am always bigger than everything you can demonstrate to me! I am like invisible! 😉
Where have you gone now?
If that is how you express yourself - with particular reference to the asinine and infantile symbols, you are a child.
It may be temporary, but who knows?
I think, Therefore I am.
Rene Descartes, Circa 1637
historically regarded as a false/flawed statement
The entire idea of "I think therefore I am" summed up is basically: the fact that my thoughts exist prove that I exist. I could not have thoughts if I don't exist.
This is wrong for two main reasons.
1.) Why can't an illusion have thoughts? Descartes doesn't actually prove the existence of any being. You could still be an illusion, even if you are perceiving thoughts. For example: "I" might "be" someone else when I am dreaming, and "I" might have thoughts in this dream. However, this does not mean that this "being" that I "am" in the dream is real. It is still an illusion. There is no reason why we can't be illusions in "real" life, and still have thoughts. There's your first fundamental flaw.
2.) This does not prove that the thoughts are not an illusion. In order for Descartes' arguments to hold any weight, he must be able to prove that the thoughts that one perceives are not illusory. If the thoughts of a "being" are illusory, then it follows that the "being" itself is illusory.
Since "I think therefore I am" is an absolute statement, yet these two reasons keep it from being absolutely true, the statement is fundamentally flawed.
no, i didnt author this, i just assumed you'd ask
@@TheSebiestor Consciousness is the result of our big brains.
When i stub my toe, it doesnt feel like an illusion.
It feels all too real.
Our day to day experiences prove we are conscience.
What happens to that consciousness after we die seems to be the real question.
I suspect it is lost.
My toe hurts, Therefore I am.
@@twist7799
that's what your toe is for, primarily for finding things in the dark.
also, i am not a fan of Decartes, he was a religious zealot and a butcher of dogs.
about the only thing i like what he said ..paraphrasing, "men are born free and then shackled into servitude"
I enjoy watching these videos. I think that death is not final. That what makes us, who we are be it our conscious a soul transforms and moves on to something else after death. I like how this man digs into this and ask questions. He says he doesn't buy a lot of the theories, but I think deep down he does otherwise he wouldn't be digging as deep as he does.
Based on what evidence? Just a feel-good hope?
@@ramaraksha01 When Christ was tempted by the Devil, Christ taught us to resist temptation. When people ask others for "evidence", this is how Satan works through people. So sorry, it's not going to work. You'll have to find someone else.
@@roberth8647 Mind-boggling view of temptation - All I see is a Death Cult making cheap promises of an eternal life of ease & comfort with zero evidence - any fool can make those promises
Talk to Muslims, they do it too
Hinduism does not, Buddhism does not
We promise REAL LIFE, Life that you have now, LIFE THAT GOD CREATED FOR US!
THERE IS ONLY ONE WORLD! THIS ONE!
How is temptation asking for solid evidence? A Madoff guy comes and says he can double your money in no time and if you are asking for evidence, you are giving into temptation? What?
IT'S THE OTHER WAY ROUND!
Can you be this stupid? Yes you can!
You think you will get to live like scum supporters of Putin, Kim Jong Un, singing the Dictators praises and living the good life sponging off them?
Or like Prostitutes/gigolos/leeches/freeloaders live down here, shamelessly sponging off their rich Sugar Daddies & living a life of ease & comfort?
You think God is a Sugar Daddy? A Putin?
You may be a shameless scum, gigolo/leech but God certainly is no Sugar Daddy
Sorry, you are not running away from REAL LIFE and hiding in a fantasy land sit around shamelessly sponging off someone and living the good life
If death s not final, it is not death, but all this talk of death is only dreaming unless you have died; the future-like the past, is a dream.
When dreamer is(for himself) destroyed forever, all that is left is decomposing meat, and the second that the heart stops beating, bacteria in the body start to eat it or it decomposes, and the first organs to go are the soft tissues, first of all the brain- no brain no you.
It is different for different people; some through certain experiences have something formed in them that does not cease to exist when the body dies, and whatever you call that, it too will die sooner or later.
That which is real cannot cease to be real that which is not real(what you call me-it's only personality which is mask)was never real in the first place.
A man(human being) must ask himself what he *Is*- if he is no more than a few memories and temporary stuff or just dreams, that cannot survive unchanged for more than a few moments, let alone death. That which is real cannot cease to be real and that which is/was not real never was.
It is necessary to understand that man'sinequality
with whom everything happens, who is now one, the next moment another, and the
next moment a third, has no future of any kind; he is buried and that is all. Dust
returns to dust. This applies to him. In order to be able to speak of any kind of future
life there must be a certain crystallization, a certain fusion of man's inner qualities, a
certain independence of external influences. If there is anything in a man able to resist
external influences, then this very thing itself may also be able to resist the death of
the physical body. But think for yourselves what there is to withstand physical death
in a man who faints
or forgets everything when he cuts his finger? If there is anything in a man, it maysurvive; if there is nothing, then there is nothing to survive. But even if something
survives, its future can be very varied. In certain cases of fuller crystallization what
people call 'reincarnation' may be possible after death, and, in other cases, what
people call 'existence on the other side.' In both cases it is the continuation of life in
the 'astral body,' or with the help of the 'astral body.' You know what the expression
'astral body' means. But the systems with which you are acquainted and which use this
expression state that all men have an 'astral body.' This is quite wrong. What may be
called the 'astral body' is obtained by means of fusion, that is, by means of terribly
hard inner work and struggle. Man is not born with it. And only very few men acquire
an 'astral body.' If it is formed it may continue to live after the death of the physical
body, and it may be born again in another physical body. This is 'reincarnation.' If it is
not re-born, then, in the course of time, it also dies; it is not immortal but it can livelong after the death of the physical body.
@@vhawk1951kl correct, it's not death. It's merely a transition
The conductor is the world around us in which our experiences are constrained, in that analogy, I think.
Literally everything humankind has built is full of consciousness. It wouldn't be possible without Consciousness.
That sounds right. What we have built is what it is to be conscious.
@@kimrunic5874 tip of the cap....at least, a VERY high level of Consciousness (Capital C mind you)
I wish thisdrivel would find its way out of my suggestions. Thought it would be interesting, but it's just more, "I find my consciousness really amazing, therefore it has to be more amazing than can be explained...blah, blah, blah"
Well, consciousness is indeed extremely amazing. Subjective experience is so different from mere properties of the material objects of the senses. And it is indeed difficult, nay impossible, to explain it in purely material terms.
Consciousness is interpreted in diverse way's. By imagining certain possibilities the Mind can be seen to be a pattern recognition entity inhabiting the nervous system. Consciousness is the quality or state of being aware of an external object or something within One'self, which is also defined as sentence awareness, subjectivity the ability to experience or to feel, wakefulness having a sense of selfhood, and the executive control system of the Mind, an Albert cognitive state in which you are aware of Yourself, and your, situation having knowledge of familiarity information consciousness, ideas, attitudes, Feeling's of which an individual or Group is aware at any given time or within a given time span altered state's of consciousness, such as sleep, dreaming and hypnosis,consciousness is a property that emerges from particular type's of physical arrangements of Matter, which can also differs in that, There are so many different meaning's for consciousness, defined as part of the Mind that contains all your, Thought's sensations emotions, and experiences, one, is aware of the present Moment, No it's Not an illusion, far from illusion, Shared All Life's Matter's 2020/ ♥😊♥
Jolly interesting but what *is* consciousness? Define you terms before you pontificate.
"What would be the analogue of the conductor of the orchestra?" That's why we love him :)
Consciousness only seems mysterious compared to the rest of the world because we postulate a world separate from the consciousness which perceived it. In reality, the only real reality is that which is perceived by consciousness. Without consciousness, there is no talk of a world, of atoms or subatomic particles, these are the words we use to explain the changes we see in our experience.
Excellent!
You should be the show.
You've nailed it, completely.
If you talk of consciousness without specifying consciousness *of what* you convey nothing, for conscious in vaccuo is meaningless, you might as well substitute stuff for consciousness and it would convey as much, or be equally without meaning.
First set out what you mean or intend/seek to convey by conscious, for if you do not you had better stick to semaphore. Look up the etymology. It is a derivative of the Latin infinitive sciere to know, as are all words with sci in them, conscious, conscience and science being clear examples- they all stem from the Latin verb to know(sciere), but it is plain that the groundlings have no Latin and fewer wits.
@@vhawk1951kl consciousness of reality, of the world. If you read what I said that was the referent. I can be more specific if you want, but you seemed to have missed the point entirely.