The IndyCar License Kerfuffle... and a raving lunatic's descent into madness.
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- čas přidán 22. 12. 2022
- No vid because I don't want or need to spend time on this.
Follow me like a stalker! (please dont actually stalk me... duh)
/ emptybox_007 - Hry
The most frustrating thing is that there can be coexistence. But it feels like Indycar made a decision to make this license exclusive just because they could. And the cost of that decision? Closing a door of opportunity for people to become fans of the sport, younger fans that Indycar should want and need. Well over half the TV audience is 55 or older. Indycar is literally acting irrationally against their own interests to grow the sport. Everyone knows MSGM doesn’t have the capacity to make just an average game, let alone one that creates more fans.
Or they had no choice . EA and major publishers wouldn't touch Indycar with a 10ft pole . Who else was even remotely interested.
@@AlistairMaxwell77 iRacing currently has TONS of IndyCar leagues. The AI racing on the open wheel side is fantastic and they literally just added the entire ladder series this season. You could race from the lowest rung on the Indy ladder all the way to the topin complete AI seasons. IRacing as it sits right now is probably the best IndyCar game that has existed. Let alone the yearly Indy 500 race is one of the most popular races on the series year after year.
@@AlistairMaxwell77 What you say only makes sense if IndyCar is paying to make a game, rather than being paid to make the game. I'm highly skeptical IndyCar was paying to make this because it would make no sense. They don't need a game one bit and clearly have thought that for over a decade now, and have had cars featured in more widespread games over the years anyways.
No major publisher is touching any licensed series outside F1, because racing games are incredibly hugely dominated by Microsoft and Sony who have captured the market as the genre has moved past it's peak, demand wise. Even NASCAR no longer gets a big name publisher.
I think you give IndyCar too much credit at doing this maliciously intentionally. That's why I really, really, really believe MSG brought them money and a contract and IndyCar thought it was better than having essentially zero license value as they have had for years and didn't care enough / have the leverage / have the smarts to negotiate a deal like NASCAR did. (which MSG also has a license to as we all know)
@@TacticalCardboard IC got paid , the point is who else is going to make a game for them and pay? options would be slim . they took what they could.
I can’t help but think that iRacing saved Indycar in 2020 when we couldn’t have real races by providing a digital platform to race on. Now, Indycar has stabbed iRacing in the back. I hope Indycar does the right thing and gives iRacing the license back when their game fails.
Exactly - I live about an hour from Newton, and worked there for 8 years. Absolutely zero chance I'll pay to go there. If I'm gonna spend that kind of money I'll go to Road America - more racing in the weekend, full free paddock access, and shade.
I really did miss your rants. Glad your back with same passion
Exactly why I love his videos
Indycar has committed a serious fly kick to their own face with this one.
If someone offered you $60m for your onlyfans channel would you take it? I would…
@@PosiXMosh Especially after waiting 13 odd years for IndyCar to become something decent on iRacing.
I think you are spot on. I'm part of the 40+ crowd, and I agree with you. I remember when Indy was a very popular sport. Guys from F1 came over for the 500 on the regular. Guys from the open wheel dirt ranks, who were just really that good would get called up to run. I was so bummed when the split happened in the 90's. Not only did it fundamentally change the sport, but the kind of drivers that were in the sport. More and more of them came out of development programs, and less from the talent pool of open wheel dirt (and their pavement counterparts). I was excited when they announced that IRL and CART would again combine to become INDYCAR. I was even more excited when I first got into iRacing and found out I could run an Indy car, a pavement sprint, and the wingless cousin of the Indy car, the silver crown. If Indy really wanted to get their fanbase and a new generation excited, they should do a full event weekend like you said, and maybe work with USAC to get the pavement sprints or midgets and silver crown cars, paired with Indy lights, and NTT Indy Cars. Like you I am within driving distance to both Iowa speedway and the Milwaukee Mile, albeit a slightly longer drive in both directions (Wisconsin, near La Crosse). At any rate, at least then you'd be getting some value for your ticket price. By the way, this -15 and windy crap can be done now. I'm ready for April and the local tracks. 😀🥶🥶
The Reiza thing came from them saying in their last AMS2 dev update that they were trying to get the Indycar license and had licensed IMS itself. So it's most likely people jumping the gun because they never said they had closed a deal on the full Indycar license, just that they were trying to.
Lemme quote directly just so peeps can see it here, it was brief enough and was made by a forum admin:
"Re. Indycar situation, I´d like to clarify we don´t have an agreement with Indycar in place and no prospect of it happening any time soon. A discussion took place around August/September for us to try find a way to accomodate AMS2 featuring the car, but they decided to keep focus on the official game being developed by Motosports Games. I believe the iRacing development is just a byproduct of that decision."
To explain the Reiza connection. A fictional IR-18 was pulled mere weeks before release because IndyCar contacted Reiza about officially licensing content.
According to Reiza, they had been in talks back in 2020 when IndyCar went silent, only opening talks again back in July-August of 22. The plan was to release it as DLC or some packages officially IndyCar branded, no word was given on when, just sometime in the future. Out of this, AMS2 was given a licensed version of Indianapolis Motor Speedway, which was not even an option before the whole debacle.
A few months ago, Renato (lead dev I think), stated that there were issues with the license and that it's not expected soon. He did leave the possibility of a future release, but it was officially pulled from the DLC.
Given the state of MSG at the time, many who knew about this speculated that MSG would probably go bankrupt before the game would release. So with the possibility of Reiza still making content, people speculated maybe IndyCar was lining up a different title if MSG couldn't deliver.
What we didn't know, was MSG got a last minute investment of approx $2M with a potential $8M buyout. It appears that MSG and IndyCar are doubling down on the original announced game.
Renato stated after the iRacing debacle that IndyCar had decided against licensing AMS2 DLC, preferring to focus on the official game. Also stating that the iRacing situation were probably from similar circumstances that prevented them. When asked about whether the fictionalized car would be released, he stated they don't plan to.
"...punching yourself in the nuts for self-gratification over and over again."
LOL!
Had to immediately pull the phone away as I spit my coffee out of my mouth.
Another thing they've done...Indycar lost main subscription tv (Foxtel) coverage in Australia just as Scott McLaughlin was moving in to the series. It's now sitting on a streaming service down here in a sports package that I'm not sure many people have picked up.
There definitely would've been more than a few V8 Supercars fans (also shown primarily on Foxtel down here) that would have followed Scotty's move. Could have at least regained some of the support from the days of the race at Surfers Paradise.
But trust the plan I guess.
Indycar has basically abandoned Australia lol, the end of that tv deal was the final nail in the coffin.
They're basically just a US spec series now, they don't even go to Mexico anymore.
Reiza studios actually put out a release saying the exclusive license is why the Formula NA (or whatever it is) got cancelled. They said they were then trying to work out a license so they COULD release it. So this exclusivity deal has already affected 2 games
Between that, and Formula 1 insisting on creating cars long enough to reach corner to corner, I think I'll take up badminton.
F1 still clears.
Might as well pick up polo if you like seeing spoiled rich kids compete against each other
Well said, love the passion and it's something shared by a lot of us. All valid points and well made.
You are hands down my favorite person to hear talk about the state of Indycar. Can we get commentary videos for the races next year? If not please keep up the great content. Thank you
Much needed rant. I hope the series wakes up and changes things for the better and realize what they are doing is not going to get them anywhere fast
Empty Box gets his groove back!
Epic rant.Well done sir😄
You mentioned NASCAR's monopoly on oval racing and ironically even that is evaporating, look at how much of the Cup calendar has shifted to road course/roval configs in recent years. Granted, NASCAR has its own litany of issues but imho oval fans (and I count myself as one) need to get real about how narrow its appeal is-
This year I put the 500 on at a Memorial Day cookout/party to watch with friends (we're all in our 30's), one pal who's gotten into F1 from Drive To Survive was totally lost for how different it was. I tried to explain the appeal to him, why they don't have standing starts, why the pit stops aren't done in a couple seconds, etc. really it boiled down to me going "yeah but-" "no but-" "ehhhhhh but-".
I desperately wish people could give oval competition a chance but the respect. IS. NOT. THERE.
I want more oval tracks on the IC calendar but realistically I think it needs about as many road course dates added (an aside, wtf is it with two visits to IMS in road course config? do they not realize how weird and desperate that looks?). This year's calendar is once again... scant and I don't understand why that is.
Above all, I think all the sanctioning bodies in the US need to offer more in the way of streaming (see F1 offering a whole virtual television channel in essence). I could write a whole essay on that but this ain't the place.
Also in all honesty I really hope that IMSA/WEC take off this year because my interest went to endurance racing after I'd been a NASCAR/IC fan in passing as a kid. BUT, breaks my heart as a still-passing IC fan to see them stumble so craptacularly in recent years.
I'm so happy you're back uploading content. You are saying what every Indycar fan is saying in their head.
I overheard this earlier and though they would take away the stock cars. Thanks for getting me up to speed. I'm gonna drive the late model then.
I'm just going to add as a former employee at MSG that they'll produce something, but it's gonna be just as bad a mess as Ignition was. I feel sorry for the team still working there!
Well, there's actually a place where hybrids are relevant. It's Le Mans, because it has always been a "laboratory" for cars.
Which is great, and why these days, with a nice new set of regulations, there's a ton of new entrants (Peugeot, Glickengaus, Ferrari, Vanwall, Iso Fraschetti, BMW, Lamborghini, Cadillac,...), with vastly differing cars and engines. The rules should give a fair chance for everyone, and the freedom (at least in LMH hypercars) means a manufacturer can actually show their technological knowledge instead of being forced to make "spec engines". Marketing-wise, this is important.
But it also works because it is Le Mans, with a unique product.
I first read the patch-notes with the renaming of everything "IndyCar" to "Open Wheel" and remembered: There was this incoming deal with MSG. Then I read the news and thought: What would Empty Box have to say about it?
Ever thought about creating podcasts instead of videos? A bit like this or the split-documentary.
Your videos got me into Iracing, particularly Indy cars..... such a shame.
I like this format, you expressing your opinions on Indycar and other motor sports, are you gonna make more videos like this in the future?
Thanks for the video. Weeks ago, I've read that some Indycarfans on iRacing want to stage a 2023 US 500 at Michigan Speedway on the same day as the Indianapolis 500. I hope they do. And I hope that they can get the real, the official Mark Plourde to participate in it. And maybe, his wife, too.
This is like Papyrus and EA all over again, I mean not quite the same but still
Also Sega with Daytona and EA with exclusive Porsche license, was annoying for years.
Got me pondering what music the great Empty Box would tolerate at an Indycar event though? (my guess is either something Norwegian black metal or Ska)
Dont forget that the IndyCar drivers took massive shits on iRacing. And iRacing told them to leave because of it. That started some bad ties where nobody would stand up for iRacing
I hate to churn years old butter, but I think that the CCWS would have handled this much better.
I feel basically the same way as back when the Midway deal happened.
So many good points mate.
Indycar, you keep doing you. i miss the old you.
[iRacing makes a phone to Roger] 'yo Rog, we can still use that name yer for those tracks you own?, and can we have a scan of your dallara to use in the sim? ya know, the penski open wheel series? (jusatlike the merc w12/w13' (and everything is fine again.)
not too far from relaity?
The reiza rumour started because reiza was in active negotiations for an indycar licence until recently.
Yaaaaaaas you did it!
Indycar leadership is just awful. You hit every major point. I bought Iracing for the Indycars, literally because of your old videos. The CW is a joke. F1 put their product in front young people streaming, and now Indycar thinks putting it on OTA TV is the same. Not to mention F1 has no commercials, which is a breathe of fresh air. I don't mind the hybrids though, its atleast some intrigue. The fact that the car is 11 years old is pathetic as well. Funny as well how F1 can gain new fans, and IMSA can gain tons of new manufactures, Indycar cant do either of those lol
Watching indycar or nascar is so obnoxious with the commercials every 5 minutes, take you out of the moment watching a close battle then suddenly a commercial for chicken wings comes on.
I used to be an indycar fan but it's just not worth the time when f1 does everything they do but better, though admittedly I still watch some oval races.
Hot damn I've missed your rants
I love the focus on "our race cars are more eco" as you look at a huge paved track, maintained by tons of ICE machines, the race cars are there on the back of ICE trucks, and all the fans showed up in ICE vehicles.
Having 'exclusive' licenses got proven to be a bad idea in the late 00s with the bad Nascar games then competition makes everyone better and have more platforms to play on. Also yeah 2020 I racing saved motorsports a ton by providing a place that the real racers could still race.
Personally, interest in Indycar died at the Cart split while interest in F1 died in Abu Dhabi.
I hate podcasts
But this is awesome
Welcome to the world of btcc guys..
*and as I post this msg, Mr box mentions btcc too 🤣
To be fair, regarding the hybrid being a Honda-Chevy thing. Yes, if we cared about the environment we wouldn't be racing, just look at Sebastian Vettel. But if we didn't have car manufacturers showing off their brand to gain a positive association, we wouldn't be racing either. People don't care about hybrids in road cars either, the hybrid is just the means to get a higher range number on a full tank.
Though, in sports car racing, hybrids are absolutely spectacular. So for cars on tighter tracks it works really well, hybrid just makes no sense when going 2 hours at an almost constant high speed. I would say, hybrids could make the speeds on road courses and short ovals better without needing restrictors on the super-speedways. But apparently no one goes to superspeedway races, so giving the other races a spectacle boost is also kind of useless...
Im 1 of the 15 that love Indycars! Well said Empty Box and i agree with Team I5G
Normally this wouldn't be the final straw for my fandom, but this on top of everything else the series has done has killed my interst in it. I wasn't around for the split (that and I was an IRL fan anyways) so maybe this is an overreaction but this sport has just continued to shoot itself in the foot and continued to disappoint. IMSA, WEC, GT Racing, NASCAR, F1, V8 Supercars, midgets, and sprints have all provided a better product and less disappointment as well as more entertainment and more innovation than IndyCar has bothered to since 2012.
The world is a vampire
GOLD 🏆
I really think that this was a strategy by the Indycar folks. Everyone has known about Motorsports Games for over a year.
It's likely that iracing will get their license back mid year, Indycar will have made a lot of money off this, then they'll see about an actual video game.
When you think about the series of events this doesn't make sense Amy other way.
As the Broadcaster at How to Suck at IRacing, this is frustrating though. However, my community is already planning an Indy 500 that will raise money for the National MS Society
If you read the actual agreement, it is very obvious that the over-arching agreement is non-exclusive except for the portion that deals with "e-sports" broadcasts, prize money, etc. But despite that, various parties are making various decisions that are mostly bad for the sim racing community. MSG appears to be a wholly toxic force in the community at this point and some racing series can't seem to figure that out.
I think a mot of f1s popularity (aside from DTS which brought attention to f1) it is accecability to the content luring people in.
That is also why IndyCar might have been more popular in recent times due to IndyCar fast forward. Without that 30m i would not care one bit for IndyCar. But even if I did....i can't see it without a 80$ subscription, or a trip to the pirates coves. That f1 has been better at too, although 15 bucks for live coverage if a bit steep.
I payed 25$ bucks for a physical ticket on the national touring car chanpioncip, with Felix and marcus on the grid
Largely these videos introduced me to iRacing in 2014. I was interested in iRacing because of Indycar. I am disappointed that iRacing isn't looking out for younger consumers. I think we have had SO many great opportunities to grow the sport and the sim-racing series in a cohesive way. There was a mélange of poor timing on iRacing's part, with a terrible tire model, poor execution on Indycar's part, and downright failures that left a sour taste for real life drivers. This is the nail in the coffin in the short-term. It may come off nerdy, but winning the broadcasted 500 this year was one of the greatest feelings of euphoria I've ever felt. A lot of us care about this series.
For reasons I would not openly discuss, I am optimistic that we will come to a solution within a reasonable time frame.
dude youre right about the hyvee iowa weekend. What a joke that business really has become.....trying to up charge people and using Miami and Long Beach as an excuse....the entitlement people with $ have!!!
:c, I figured at some point I'd buy into the d-18, particularly from your content, and work up my oval license. (Currently stuck at D b/c no free car :/.) Always knowing IMS and the 500 would be an exciting opportunity. ... Welp. Guess that's one car I don't need to purchase anymore...
If your license seems stuck in iracing ovals while it doesn't seem like there's a way to progress without buying a car i'm pretty sure you can get your d license above 4.0 and participate in c class advanced street stock and advanced legends races
As a newer Indycar fan as much as I would like an Indycar at least they have a solid mod on NR2003 that I would much rather play then anything motorsports games puts out.
I think this whole thing has been a wake-up call to me about what Indycar really thinks of its fanbase. I should've been this mad when Indycar refused to do anything about their godawful aero package for Phoenix and put on three absolutely atrocious parades in front of empty stands. I should've been this mad when Indycar kept insisting they can't do a new car, instead of handwaving it away as "well the racing is still better than anywhere else". I should've been this mad at ten fucking years of Indycar not being able to find a third engine manufacturer and having to constantly bend over backwards to keep HPD and Ilmor from running away screaming, as they probably should have.
Now I'm this fucking mad because Indycar expects its fanbase (and the associated journalists) to go evangelize Indycar - because Indycar's marketing sure as hell doesn't - while kicking those fans repeatedly during an offseason that shouldn't be remotely this long.
I keep seeing the argument for the 3rd make, and I thought it made more sense to focus resources on keeping the two they already have- do I have the wrong idea? I'd personally fear a repeat of Lotus in 2012.
@@SAHOYT71013 it's not the specific lack of a manufacturer itself - it's the fact that we have two manufacturers who do want to be involved, but don't really have any interest in supporting 12+ full time cars each. So things like the 2.4L get tossed aside when they threaten to use that as an excuse to cut car counts.
It's also the fact that after ten years of supposedly negotiating with the entire damn industry, Indycar hasn't been able to make a case for anyone else to join. Which speaks poorly of Indycar's ability to sell itself, and their insistence on sticking to the engine formula. It becomes its own red flag to potential manufacturers - if nobody else has joined in the last decade, why should Toyota, or Ford, or Hyundai, or who the fuck ever?
@@IOwnCalculus I get what you mean, but I just don't think Indycar could've done anything because manufacturers are not interested in branded racing except GT, stock cars, and kind of F1. All Indycar really offers for prestige is a sticker on the car to impress a small, aging fanbase.
There's also the issue of design/packaging, which Emptybox even touched upon in this video for a moment or two: they have to build out these engines to cram into tiny single seaters (and I think the struggle to evolve the DW12 without burning money plays a huge role in that), with no adaptable purpose to other series or road cars.
Not trying to say this of you, but the fans clamoring hardest for a third make seem to be nostalgic for when inter-brand engine/chassis rivalry was truly competitive- and it was sick beyond belief *when it worked*. I think those fans gloss over how often one brand would steal the show and how costly it got to participate, sink or swim.
@@SAHOYT71013 Oh I remember those days, and yeah, there's no great single solution here; I absolutely agree that the more-or-less parity we have between HPD and Ilmor today is preferable to one engine running away from the others. I still wish they'd allowed Lotus to crank the boost for the 2012 500 so that Simona could've had a chance at not being black flagged... run it 'til it pops!
This is the result of Indycar making short-term decisions at every step of the way. An 11-year-old car that nobody wants to touch, an engine formula that no new manufacturer wants to support, and existing engine manufacturers who would rather leave than supply 12-14 cars with a new engine. Forcing a new chassis design that would allow the use of vastly less expensive engines is going to rile the team owners in a bad way, and Indycar certainly doesn't have any positive history with BOP rules.
@@IOwnCalculus right, I forgot to tie my last reply together by saying Indycar's problems are a culmination of shortsightedness. I don't know that it's worth your getting mad though, like sooner or later they'll come to see the light and at least Indy fans are finding one another/bonding over our Festivus Greivances
17:59 what does this mean
Indycar continues to take 1 step forward and 6 steps back. They just shoot themselves in the foot at every opportunity they get.
Until the whole Iowa debacle kicked off, I was actively planning to make the 14-hour drive from Pennsylvania for the race weekend. I've always wanted to see a race at Iowa. It's one of my favorite ovals, along with IRP, which I made the trek to last year.
For fairness, I'd rather see NASCAR there, but since IndyCar is the only thing racing there these days, it's my only option. And I wouldn't be travelling 14-hours alone. Two people who wouldn't normally attend an IndyCar race -- including one who wouldn't normally attend a race at all in general -- planned to attend. Score for IndyCar? You'd think.
I was excited to go, but then came the multiple slaps in the face. Prices hiked in the name of entertainment, and the tone deaf "bUt EnTErTaiNmEnt." Y'know what? If I had ANY interest in seeing any of the acts, I'd see them closer to home (except Zac Brown Band, they're not playing PA). I don't have to drive 14 hours to see any of them.
Ed Sheeran? Philadelphia. Two hours.
Carrie Underwood? State College or Philadelphia. Two Hours.
Kenny Chesney? Wilkes-Barre. One hour.
I was more than ready to make the hike FOR THE TRACK, FOR THE RACING. Not concerts I can see without leaving the state.
I think the concerts and entertainment were organised by the sponsor of the Iowa weekend rather than INDYCAR itself.
@@pokeboi5438 correct, literally everything that had to do with iowa weekend was entirely on HyVee's dime
Until today I watched both F1 and Indycar. Not any more. Stupid move, Indycrap. It took me years to come back after the stupid Tony George split.
I don’t understand how it’s possible but indycar has gotten worse under Penske
Crazy to think iracing lost it considering Tony Kanaan is a big iracer. And has a big community.
IndyCar if you are listening, I learned about IndyCar by progressing through license classes in iRacing in 2014 which was inspired by watching Empty Box videos. Because of Empty Box and iRacing I started watching the 2014 racing season (I remember this because Will Power won the championship that year). I have avidly watched every IndyCar race since 2014 and am now a serious fan of the sport.
This is just another way you are alienating your sport from your fans and screwing the future of this sport by limiting exposure to a new and younger generation of fans, which this sport desperately needs. Please wake up and listen to your fans and the small media groups who spend so much time and effort promoting this sport with very little to nothing in return.
We want whats best for IndyCar, do you?
Say what you want about nascar but they are open to everything. They would have double headers with indy or any other series and I bet they would have many games on the go but have one official
I agree. For all the criticisms I have about NASCAR, at least they’re trying even if all their decisions aren’t the best. Even the FIA is looking to expand into the North American market more based on rumors about a US-focused Formula series.
NASCAR is a (racing wise) highly political entity, that's a large portion of the problem of getting IndyCar and NASCAR on actually friendly terms to combine. They have the biggest series, they now own almost all the tracks in some capacity - they know what they have, they know where things stand, and they damn sure aren't the type to help anyone they see as a competitor. They are the prime market maker with how things are.
Plus with NASCAR having about a bajillion cars by the time they tack on Xfinity and trucks you end up with a garage that's already beyond capacity. It basically takes a guy like Penske being Penske to get it together, which isn't a realistic solution in most cases.
I don’t disagree. Living in canada and being a racing fan and seeing how big it actually is here is frustrating. Big but not big compared to other stuff. Everything I love seems to get eaten up by the things that mainstream says you would like. I totally get when you like a smaller series because smaller doesn’t always mean inferior. I just mean I can’t imagine nascar doing this deal.
Holy shit.
That is all.
Indycars stagnation in the face of F1's blossom can be traced completely to 2017 when Liberty Media controlled broadcast and made them easily accessable so long as you had a cable/live TV with NO COMMERCIALS. I know commercials ultimately pay the bill but Indycar broadcasts are Firestone ad after Firestone ad supplemented by a useless "Side-by-side" and not to mention they push Peacock broadcasting on you as if it's not the exact same thing (Peacock also has ads). Indycar needs to find a balance where they have one race title sponser that pays top dollar to be on the concrete walls and bridges (Like F1 Heineken/Aramco). Also needs much better social media team especially on Instagram and Twitter. You try to get mid race updates and highlights and they don't post anything.
They act like this high society that no one can understand and that does not help them when it's time to check viewer/attendence ratings.
IndyCar on iRacing had more than 0 players about 4 times a week. Randomly it was also more popular in Europe than it was in the States. People have been complaining about the car and dynamic track for ages with no change. The real life series is hardly thriving. If someone wants to come along and try make something of it - in a big way - I don't see why it's a kerfuffle. The 15 people who race IndyCar online should just move over to rF2 I reckon.
One of the best changes Indycar could make would be to get rid of commercials and NBCSN
Let’s bring the action, brought to you by gainbridge, Nextel, RC cola, IZOD, Honda, Chevrolet, discount tire, the us military industrial complex, and of course
Firestone and the FIREHAWK
Indycar, punching their fans in the dick since 1996!
1st half of the rant was pretty good, but the last half was pretty tone deaf.
What part was tone deaf?
@Russ Ivey "I don't like the music, so concert bad." As if the SnakePit at Indy isn't a huge success, and with lack of on track oval content concerts haven't helped attendance in NASCAR. Let me edit: also getting people in the door with something else is great. The easiest way to make a race fan is putting a new butt in a seat.
"Drive to Survive didn't help F1." Despite it being the sole reason for the influx of American viewers that helped the sport return to cable with ESPN to double down on the new American audience while the racing, aside from 2021 was relatively the same as the aforementioned seasons of the hybrid era.
"No one wants Hybrids and they aren't bringing manufacturers into Sportcars." While that part of the sport is having a massive amount of money being poured into it from manufacturers that we haven't seen since before the 2010s. Couple that with the massive attendance at the majority of the IMSA races this year, and that makes his other point that no one watches sports car racing a bit minute. (Don't forget it's the least accessible motorsports to watch in the US right now.
Matt was right when he said it would go off the rails. I just can't get behind the majority of points he made in the second half because they all seem to be untrue.
True, no one cares for hybrids in a racing application, only economical. Somehow FIA made it interesting. FIA recent 2026 engine regs is boring, same engine displacement, bigger electric motor and the expensive, MGU-H being removed, which is baffling at first, but made sense in the long run. Pretty cool piece of tech, which none of us are going to see in a road car lol.
Anyway, the last official IndyCar game was how long ago? 2005? And now they're bringing back with the help of MSG? Lmao!
I just left Iowa because I hated it lol
Indy is the least interesting racing I do on iracing. I figure with all the moves Penske was making iracing was going to be the force multiplier to keep Indy alive as the American racing sport. I would applaud that and participate. Guess I was wrong. Penske is just getting his retirement cash out of the investment. Not to worry, I don't need Indy, just like I don't need Nascar.
It's okay, the license will die off when MSG can't create a game. Indycar should have had a stipulation when selling the license of 'release game by X date'
Here for the comments
Exclusve licensing is a very poor licensing model choice.
I also do not understand why the series keeps selling the 500. We all know the 500 is great. Also, every race outside of the 500 would be very underwhelming to a first-timer because there is very little in the way of production value. Every Nascar race feels like a main event. Most races outside of Indy feel like local short track.
Because it is the only thing of value besides LBGP, it subsidizes the whole series at this stage.
IndyCar fans have been suffering for almost 3 decades now, why should it change now? >.
sadly I agree the upcoming Indy Series game will not see the light of day. MSG is/has been a gas fuel bonfire for several months now. Much like your 60 million dollar comment My guess is 6 months to 1yr from now we won't have a industries standard workable game. the CEO will probably some how glen cash out of this whole mess that's been created. The something out of nothing bit is more & more common practice in our world today.
I love sportscar racing but they keep shooting themselves in the foot also. The grid was full before the merge with ALMS and then they totally screwed that up and basically lost all the teams not even a year into it. Then the 2017 rollout was terrible as the Cadillacs were too superior and took to long to equate the cars.
I care about Indycar. Lol.
Not happy with this move. I can feel my interest in Indycar slipping away. Ug.
maybe this will inspire better independent lobbies for RF2 INDYCAR which is quite good. I will miss the Dallara Dash for sho.
I allways enjoy watching your videos and value your opinion but I think with this one it's too obvious that you talk about this topic as an iRacer, wich is fine btw. Just to give your opinion a little twist: would the video have started the way it did if iRacing had the exclusive deal? For me as an rF2-fan the last year as been very positive and that's partially down to the fact that MSG pumped money into interesting lisences and development. For you it's just "rF2-mods" but it's alot more than that. You have no problem with Reiza creating rF1 mods or Madness Engine mods so I don't really buy that argument. The sim racing market isn't a party where gifts are distributued - it's a market of fierce competition as anywhere else. Why no complaints about Kunos making exclusive deals with SRO? Sector3 with DTM/WTCC or Codis/EA with F1? Why isn't S397 worth of exclusive deals? If they flesh out the Indycar content as they did with the BTCC content I see no reason tbh. It happens all the time and noone gives a f*ck. Maybe it's time for other publishers or developers to step up their game and become more interesting, or overthink their business model. I couldn't care less about the Indycar/Nascar/WEC/BTCC games. I am just glad that this content found it's way into rF2 because it's of very high quality and that's what counts at the end. If the iRacing series with the Indycar drivers wouldn't have been such a desaster, things would have evolved different maybe ... it's easy to say that the other guy is allways at fault when it might be worth it to check your own backyard. And that's not just an Indycar problem right now. iRacing lost the Le Mans deal because they simply lacked the content. :)
speak money, not english. they understand when their dollars dry up they made a mistake. #boycottMotorsportGames #speakwithyourwallet
I’m going to keep saying it: IndyCar needs to become a crate engine series. You can pick any manufacturer as long as your engine is representative of an off-the-shelf crate engine (and whatever homologation rules you want to add)
The things that IMS/USAC got right : stock blocks and the IRL engines as concepts. Not saying they are the answer, but lower tech engines can be raced just as well.
I really strongly believe the real ideal engine formula is based on a minimum weight and maximum HP figures on one specific dyno mandated by the series. Whatever you want, here are the figures, we don't care how you get there.
You can't even blame iRacing for this because they got their hands tied because Indycar and Penske Entertainment decided to continue course with a company that I'm actually starting to think is a scam
Back to Trans Am for me lol
I've never understood indycar and imsa/wec marketing. You complain no one goes to watch your races and wonder why nascar can fill the stands. Well during any given week I can watch a race on TV. They make it interesting to watch. (Fox will forever be my preferred network to watch. Not a fan of the NBC guys but that's here nor there.) But at least 75% of the races are on national broadcasts. With indycar and imsa/wec save for a few big races. I have to buy into a subscription that I'll only ever use for that series. Or better yet I have to have a cable service to log into the app. It's fast approaching 2023. How many people under 40 have a cable subscription? You want younger fans? Reach out to their networks. Make watching your programs more accessible and interesting. The number of times I've almost turned of an indy car race because Tracy or Bell yell "send it" is unfathomable. Maybe this deal if they make a game will help. But first you gotta make it easier to watch the actual races. I can't invest and follow a season if I'm getting half of the episodes
Listening to you state the 3 cars on iRacing that spans almost 20 yrs of the actual series. 3 new cars in a 20 yr span ....... 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yea, the game is probably the least of their concerns. But still it is quite the black eye for Indycar. Stupid decision after stupid decision after stupid decision etc going all the way back to 1996. This isn't really what I expected a Roger Penske owned series to perform like. At all!
Roger isn't a short term guy.
Really, the sport is the most financially stable it's been in nearly 30 plus years at this stage, though that ground work was laid previously...
The most annoying thing on that front though is there doesn't seem to be a plan going forward at all. As in, when will we get new cars, will this continue to be spec or not...
@@TacticalCardboard The thing that really ended my love affair with indycar was literally the state of the car. They were like working on some old junker from the used car lot.... The shady used car lot 😄😄. Indycar has just been kinda lost on what it is for far longer than any other sports business would have ever weathered. It is the Indy 500 that keeps it at all relevant as a thing, but that just isn't sustainable. Stupid decions like the one discussed here (video) give me absolutely no hope that they will ever get this thing right. How could anyone have any faith in anything they do. It just never ends with this sport, ever. I come from the days of Papyrus, having to patch Indianapolis from Nascar 2 into ICR2 😄😄😄 I mean when you think of the irony in having to that back in the mid 90's and to see where we are at current day..... How can anyone have any faith in Indycar and it's future??
It's really two cars to boot - I applaud iRacing for deciding to make the IR18 a separate car and keeping the DW12 as-is for the sake of more content, but there's really no reason a 2012-spec DW12 couldn't be updated to 2023-spec in real life. And the IR05 itself was an update that could be applied to 2003-spec IR03s.
So two cars covers 21 seasons of Indycar competition, and an unknown (but definitely not zero) amount more to come.
Remember when Pork Chop had its own Twitter account? Pretty sure some of the chassis that are going to be used in next year's series are older now than it was then.
@@IOwnCalculus You are absolutely correct on the 2 cars 😂😂
How come no mention of Roger Penske? Why not put the question what in the hell has Roger done since getting Indy? To me Roger is exact copy of Bernie Ecclestone when he almost ran F1 into the ground. Roger seems to living in the past. Time and time again Indy just seems to shoot itself in the foot.
I'm really not convinced Roger has anything to do with anything here other than owning the series, especially as he's well known to delegate things. And he's probably not a video gamer. LOL
The engines were always stupid. Remember, originally the plan was to plop the new engine in the current car, then maybe a new car in a year or two with the same engine - this whole arrangement was always dumb from way back when it first was laid out long before 2020. The plan was to get a 3rd OEM and they failed, the plan was only ever going to work with that 3rd OEM, and as we all know you can't force an OEM to compete... The real failure with that front is not announcing it earlier. Hybrids seem to be a thing Honda demanded, which you can't really do much about.
It's frustrating and annoying, I'm pissed off too but I'm not jumping off the cliff when car counts are up and the series is financially stable in the first time in forever. The sky isn't falling, it's just frustratingly low to start with.
I think Indycar is a bit out of touch with how modern society consumes motorsport.
I have a feeling the hybrid motorsports thing has never been originated from a series but solely from manufacturers building and selling hybrids. 3/4 of this video is nonsense
Everybody shitting on Indy car but iRacing is dropping the ball for a long time. They already lost Blancpain to AC Competizione, the Official virtual Le Mans has chosen rFactor 2, now Indycar lol. It seems just a matter of time until they lose Nascar and others.
So much for claiming they are the true sim racing and eSports game.
Let's be real, iRacing is too damn slow in releasing features and up to date content. They are trying to do too much at the same time and end up doing a half ass job on everything as result. The gt3 series races cars from 2008 and 2011 ffs..
Le Mans is on rF2 because of MSG, nothing more, nothing less.
MSG more or less took over rF2 funding wise to make it a platform for their licensing scheme. They are overpaying for licenses and taking a loss on them because it's basically (in the nicest terms) "venture capital" or (more realistic terms) a "scam". There is a reason they lost 60 million - no company in this space is THAT fiscally irresponsible. There are videos on here that explain who MSG is and what they are doing in greater detail than I care to here.
czcams.com/video/uM9tf2nkOnc/video.html
Please explain to me how hiding a car behind a rent-to-drive pay model can reach out to younger audiences. You can say it's not 1997 anymore, but believe it or not, the best way to engage young kids into your sport is to make a dedicated 60 dollar game instead of a yearly 100 buck subscription on top of a 13 dollar car and 15 dollar track per week.
Nonsense, the car wasn't hidden behind anything. There was nothing preventing someone to do a dedicated indycar game before. And many games had indycar content outside iracing, like Project cars series, rFactor2, AMS2 could have gotten them if there wasn't this shitty exclusive licence, forza series had them too IIRC and probably others. And I can tell it would have been hell of a lot better to have all those options instead of burning already existing fans and having indycar only on rf2 which not a lot plays anyways and the indycar game from MSG which will almost certainly be total shit if it ever comes at all.
@@pekkasalminen9601 You haven't read my comment. You only think you had.
@@danielebrambilla2290 I have two times now and don't get what I missed? Maybe you just wrote poorly. Either way, a crap 60$ game is not the way to get young audience. And I guess nobody said that iRacing spesifically is the one to get the young audience in so not sure what your point is..
@@pekkasalminen9601 'Hiding behind' simply means that there's no demo out there, no way for anyone to test the car than getting a subscription, even if it's for as little as a month. I'm so glad the license has been taken away from the service, so maybe people will start to look around for more valid alternatives than iRacing.
@@danielebrambilla2290 There still was other games with indycar, it was possible to test it in iRacing too in test drive when the servers are down.. But somehow it is ok that now it can be only represented in MSG titles and people actually can't look around for more valid alternatives than rF2 and the official game, if that ever comes. Bit hypocrite, ain't it.. And you seem pretty shitty person too for being happy for others inconvenience.
F1's presentation is certainly above other series, but jeez is it still boring. DRS overtakes are just crap. The ludicrous speeds will always be impressive, though. What can IndyCar do, though? As a Euro fan, I've seen the series on/off between TV licensing deals, but the racing always seems compelling from the 30 minute highlights. Maybe more open spec like the LMH/LMDh situation, with BoP.
Nobody cares about hybrids you say? EXACTLY!! I couldn't care less.
It doesn't help the all the Indycar driver shat all over iRacing during the pandemic and acted like 5 year olds.
im guessing this guy was actually planning on discussing the ircacing/indycar licensing mess and just got going and turned into a major airing of grievances of years of watching indycar!
But in all seriousness. Does it really matter? There are 100s of cars on iracing. The guys who like to race in the Indycar leagues will find another league to enjoy. Iracing will put together a 200 hr race at IMS in a fast car and lots of people will participate and it wont matter.
american racing scene got cocky and now they are paying the price for it, I think 2 years ago indycar was braggin themselves saying that they have the best drivers in the world, imsa refused to join forces with the wec, even when wec said that they were going to comply the dps (the newer ones) into the regulations , they've tried to catch the atten tion of the whole world, but then, the f1 "rejects" started beating the indycar regulars, wec done a better job with the championship and managed to get a roster of manufactures coming in to race in the top class like never before, even ferrari are coming back with a works team for wec, the racing in f1 get better (specially in the mid of the grid) while indycar got dumber (tracks like nashville doesn't help neither in this case) and this is getting them real hard, imsa for example if they try to make their own thing like japan did with the jgtc in the 90's, imsa will die, because not a single manufacture will jump in now that they've got so commited to the hypercars in wec, and now the talent wich used t racing in imsa now are joining wec, indycar got snobbed by the fia and f1 teams, even f2 has more value than indycar to f1 and the fia, and this cockynes can be seen in the game department, I can't see an indycar game selling well, because, well, since the ps2 era we don't have an indycar game, let's hope motorsport games falls fast so we can get the chance to dream again about a good nascar game...
PS: glad to see you back empty box, merry xmas and happy new year for you.
Well that is a take...
Only thing IndyCar said was they have a competitive series. I certainly don't recall them saying they have the "best drivers" ever. Now NASCAR on the other hand, hell yes they say that. lol
When did F1 rejects start beating IndyCar regulars again? Oh wait, that hasn't happened outside Ericsson being a solid mid packer. Grosjean still hasn't won a race despite being in a prime car last year. Good drivers are going to do well, and we've seen that the crap F1 rejects do crap and the good ones do good.
There hasn't really been an issue between WEC, IMSA and the ACO, actually for the first time in a long time. Yes there was some back and forth back when this started coming down, but that's typical racing politics, especially as the ACO calls the shots by way of Le Mans.
The hypercar splatted and basically fell flat, IMSA decided that going with super P2 cars was a way better play and one of those has indeed turned out to be the better play - and those aren't Hypercars. They are close enough in performance and the ACO has long had a thing with NASCAR/IMSA that merging them makes a ton of sense for everyone.
The super license thing is just pure FIA bullshittery and everyone knows it. They want to control the flow so they have as much control as possible - nothing more, nothing less. Has nothing to do with valuing anything and everything to do with politics and posturing.
iracing fans going ape . there are 160,000 total members , a tiny percentage of that race indycars , about 8000. forza 7 did 160,000 copies in its first week . its a very small niche hobby
And IndyCars were in Forza 7, a game that sold far more copies than an official game will ever sell anyways.
Good on you for speaking facts. IndyCar has been consistently shooting themselves in the foot for decades yet they keep pushing this nonsensical narrative that they’re “strong” and “growing”
Ever since the end of 2020, when they announced that dogshit stale ass schedule, I just decided to pay attention to F1 more and wow that was the best decision that I’ve ever made.
The only race I really pay attention to these days is the 500. The rest of the season is just worthless. IMSA GTP is gonna be so much better than IndyCar next year.
Edit: oh and sidenote, I love how the fanboys consistently get mad at people like Palou and Pato for wanting to go to F1 so bad. They see the writing on the wall with IndyCar and if I were them, I wouldn’t wanna be stuck wasting my time in an irrelevant series with incompetent leadership lmfao
Let's not forget that Indycar has done fuck-all to capitalize on talent like Palou and Pato - *especially* Pato. Pato's sheer existence alone will pack the stands at any Indycar race south of the border, like they did for Adrian Fernandez back in the day. Yet somehow we can't figure out another Mexican race.