Automobilista 2's Oval Experience : It Needs Work
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- čas přidán 28. 12. 2022
- Trust me when I say you can't spin these things out even if you enter the corner with a dab of oppo and stand on it.
Follow me like a stalker! (please dont actually stalk me... duh)
/ emptybox_007 - Hry
I'd say don't give up on it because the first iteration isn't up to scratch. Reiza seem to be pretty committed to constantly improving things. Give it a few updates and come back to it and see if it's improved.
Theyre definitely generous with the amount of slip allowed. It wont change the game entirely but check your camera settings in cockpit, there's a lot of movement there and it gives the false effect of yaw and starts to give the impression that cars slide more than they do. Worth a look.
I'm happy you are back bro!. Wish you a happy 2023
Just want to let you know EB, Always an instant like from myself for every video. I hope you're doing well. Happy Holidays!
I’ve always thought the same about the sideforce in iRacing tbh, but maybe not to the same degree as AMS2. In real life, we see people get just a little high or get a gust of wind at Indy and it’s just an instant spin. In iRacing, you correct slides from way further out than you would ever see in real life. I never feel a risk of the car insta killing you when moving up on WJ.
Awesome short review. Hope Reiza takes notice. I do love the feeling of dirty air as well. It will also overheat your engine if you are running a tight radiator which is pretty cool. GP4 is the last game I remember doing that.
It's been 20 years and IMO nobody's gotten close to matching NR2003 for oval racing AI. On one hand, NR2003 was great. On the other hand, TWO DECADES. HOW has nobody matched it, two decades later!?
Nr2003 had its own silly issues. While iRacing isn't perfect, I would say currently the drivability of the cars is probably on par if not overall better. The biggest problem is really with track grip and aero. Something about it just doesn't allow for multi-groove racing. Mind that NR2003 didn't really allow for it either. We had to mod that in with Brian ring tracks which frankly were just modifying the grip at different levels across the track surface. I actually did a few of those modifications myself for tracks that he didn't touch because he gave up when I was running with a NR2003 league. Admittedly at the time I didn't fully understand the math behind it and I overdid it a lot but it was fun.
Because no AI has been that great since then. GP4 is still unmatched on the road side.
I firmly believe there is simply brain power and knowledge that was down to being there from the start and learning in small little baby steps. They didnt have the luxury of raw PC power, they didn't have a hundred cars - they just had one thing that was sorted. Built a much better core early on and expanded, while the more modern studios didn't have that ability for a variety of reasons.
Plus "no one" cares about AI anymore, we need every game to try and be iRacing Lite now, if you didn't know. If the time spent adding competition systems for games with less than 1000 players was spent reworking the AI maybe then things would be different.
@@TacticalCardboard It would be nice if down the road once they kind of start ramping down actual development of various systems they did actually release an iRacing lite though
@@LithFox It's pretty simple. At that time AI had to be good because online racing wasn't as important as it is today. And next to that, games were kind of specialized on a certain racing series and not the masters of all traits with hundreds of different cars that we have now, so it was easier for the devs to tailor the AI for that kind of racing. Personaly for me this has all good and bad sides. I prefere sims with a wider scope. I couldn't just race ACC, GPL and NR2003 and be done with it. Anyway, stuff like racing series specific AI lines are still possible in newer products, but I think devs never really go that far for obvious reasons. If they wanted to just create an oval sim they could do it, but noone has done it since NR2003.
Totally unrelated to CART cars, the funnest thing I've done on AMS2 was a thunderstorm race at Montreal in a GT1/Group C mix class race. I love driving the 98 CART cars on road courses also, even though they do seem a bit too stuck.
Check patch notes of today's update, it should help a little (at least in superspeedway config). But AI does need work.... but who's done decent oval AI outside of Papyrus(NR2003)/iRacing, and maybe the last few NASCAR Heat games (though actual handling physics leave more to desire there)
i believe age of sim racers is younger today and I think they value graphics over gameplay. Back in the day gameplay and realism was everything and if the sim had great graphics too that was a bonus. There are too many ultra fans of certain sims who can't see or acknowledge when aspects of their chosen sim are blatantly poor. It feels like honest critique of a simulation or game is dying. The AM2 engine and an updated version from the Project Cars games which was updated from the Need for Speed Shift games. The Madness physics engine never felt good. It always had traction issues and a weird central pivot steering feel. I think there is a lot fan denial with AM2, people driving around the issues convincing themselves that the sim is great. Maybe because they forked-out top dollar for the DLC. I remember there were problems with the oval racing in Project Cars 2 as well. Strangely I'm not surprised.
I feel that almost all cars have this perfect drift tendency.
Thank you for confirming all my biases. I tried Ovals, had a couple of races, and found it to be boring, nothing special, physics are floaty / feeling like you're drifting all the time.
I like to race in real format with various F1 cars from the 90s and early 2000s, as well as with Indycars but for the moment only on road circuits. The AI problem is there, to deny it would be ridiculous but because I do long races I feel it less because I can be a bit patient. But I suspect that I am not part of the majority to race around 1h30 in single-seater and minimum 2h in GT1... Have a good New Year's Eve :)
Not this game, not those cars, but my typical single player race sessions involve 300 - 400 km long road races or 400 - 500 km long oval races.
Good take. Thanks for sharing!
I completely agree. Its so weird to be fish tailing every corner on an oval. The cars, not just these are not planted at all. Don't know why they can't tune out the floaty feeling. Love the look of this game and the weather effects but the driving experience is what keeps me going back to other games. Thanks for the video, don't know what to expect from the new Indycar license and game that is going to be released who knows when but I guess we will see. Later.
I got rid of the floaty feeling by changing my ffb settings to lower interpolation (3-4) damper 0, natural damper 7-15/100, Linearity setting off(which means raw-pure forcefeed back no extra adjusts to make it more liner) and then with ams 2 settings i add FX and min force even though I have a direct drive wheel, i just add how ever much feels best with each car.
@@nicklibby3784 Thx for the settings. I have a DD wheel also I will try that.
It’s one of those things that I’m sure they could fix and very well may fix in the near future, but until they do then there’s no use bothering with it for the time-being.
For one thing, they still need to do a little more tinkering with the AI on road courses which, let’s face it, is the main focus of AMS2, and the way AI and even the cars themselves should drive on ovals is a whole different ballgame altogether. So, as much as I want oval to be as close to perfect as possible in AMS2, I would personally put fixing on ovals on the backburner as annoying as it may be.
The best thing about AMS2 at the moment is also the worst thing in that it wants to be a simulator for a billion different things at the same time.
I don't think so at all - every one of the AI's poor behaviors on the ovals is just an extension of the road courses. It's the same issues the AI has on road courses - if they were to get the clumping and come hell or high water passing style on either it'd be a core fix.
@@TacticalCardboard Well yeah, that’s a huge issue with the AI in general. For some reason, they like to stay glued together in packs of three or four cars at a time, and some AI cars are super aggressive about overtaking while others seem to be afraid to even get an inch ahead of another car which may be the underlying reason why they end up in packs like that in pretty much every race with every class on every track I’ve ever tried in the current version.
I believe in Reiza, but AMS2 still has a ways to go. Or maybe I’m spoiled by how good the offline racing is in AMS1, idk lol
@@TacticalCardboard Those sound like the main two problems I always encountered with rFactor. I know AMS2 uses a different engine compared to rF and AMS1, but I wonder if the solution might be similar. If there's a file analogous to the AIW files rF uses editing values in there might really help.
For rF the AIBrakingStiffness, slowwhenpushed and AIDraftStickiness values are key. If there's something similar, that's where I'd start to look.
That said, I don't have AMS2 and might understand things so poorly I'm not even wrong.
@@skaldlouiscyphre2453 do you have a resource for those values you can change in rF? Very interested in tailoring my experience in rF2
@@w0rthy390 I've been editing them to match the values:
AIBrakingStiffness=(0.9650, 0.9650, 0.9150)
slowwhenpushed=0.10
SpeedOffset=0.000000
AIDraftStickiness=(0.9500)
What is the Max Camber you can put on each tire. That could help with Slip
I saw a video in which you compared the lap-times at Long Beach in those cars with the ones decades ago, which you can't if it has been repaved. For racing circuits-asphalt they use three different grip-options (low/medium/high) and even if they choose the same level, the lap-times will go down for a while. Moto-GP-tracks use to have more aggressive asphalt with more grip for example and at Long Beach it makes perfect sense as well to increase grip. At Brands Hatch they probably even lowered the grip because Group C was 10 sec. faster than GT3 today even the track was slower in one corner from the layout. The other reason are steering forces and stick-shifters. If the Simucube 2 Ultimate has one purpose, it's to simulate cars like that and it even can't reach the peak-forces of the real cars that are allegedly over 30 Nm. You certainly can't shift while holding it.
so interesting. I spun so so so much at Indianapolis - and I was on edge the whole the time 'cuz the wall was always right there. I adjusted the differential a bit and it made a ton of difference. No idea if its close to real life, but I had a ton of fun.
What did you adjust to the diff?
@@acemacneill the coast ramp, and the power ramp - adjusted both 2 clicks to add more stability (can't remember the direction -sorry)
Have you ever done a video on ICR2 and its Indianapolis track? It was an add-on I believe, or otherwise a port from NR3 (?). If not, it might be a nice contrast.
I've tried to drive ICR2 and have a clip in it from that AOWR series I did a long time ago, but it's really weird to drive for me.
Same issues with iRacing. rFactor 2's oval racing also has similar issues
7:10 Your car doesn't look like its handling right at all. It looks like your on ice or grease. Doesn't look realistic whatsoever
Ok I guess we can stop calling the hospitals. Welcome back old timer.
That should be the AMS slogan "AMS 2: It needs work". With that said, i bet the major problems in feeling is down to the engine, the engine itself make things look outstanding, out of the box AMS 2 is the best looking and probably better optimized sim out there BUT they are plagued with tire and aero problems, some cars they end up improving overtime other they never do but they at least put continuous the effort and work, the same cannot be said about rF2 and iRacing. You get something updated every few years.
The AI clumping issue was really the nail in the coffin for this game for me. It completely ruins both oval and non-oval racing. I haven't run into this issue to this degree in any other sim, not even Project Cars 2. At this point I have no hope that this will ever be corrected, considering that Reiza thinks they already fixed it, per a patch earlier this year.
AC AI is also pretty shit
Ac2 has some of the worst AI, possibly ever.
I've never seen an AI designed for road courses provide even a tolerable experience on ovals. They're just too fundamentally different.
@@R9naldo AC AI for me works very well. In AC I am having AI strenght set up to 98% and I can go to any car/track combo (even mods) and have great race. In ams2 you need to adjust ai skill level even for same class for different tracks. If we add group packing and heavy scripted behaviour we can conclude that it ams2 ai is heavy shit. I have 800 hours in ams2 and I would like to be differently, but currently MP is non existing and SP is shit..
@@Jurke92 I dont know what you got in your AI but for me especially with modded cars and tracks they take wrong lines, bump into walls and sometimes they act like I'm not there, just ram through and my car gets unsettled and I spin, but the AI somehow does not spin at all and keeps driving
Reminds me a little of the iRacing F3 cars when they first came out.
The road is : rFactor 1, AMS 1 (known as rF1.5), then rFactor 2.
AMS 2... not not not ! Because of the Madness engine, it's just a better Project Cars.
I noticed they were too fast. Like I broke gil de ferrans record without trying. Like I was glued in because of the speed. But these cars were very tricky. Probably the toughest of the time.
Atleast they have showed they want to fix their game
Yeah they are, but at this point we can question their aproach and results after 2.5 years. I have 800 hours in ams2 and really enjoyed it despite all the problems. But when after 2.5 years and spended 90 euros I am not able to set-up propper AI race (and MP is non existing) then I think its time for some criticism..
As much as I like AMS2 DLC content, I don’t understand releasing the oval stuff when oval racing really doesn’t work. Same goes for rf2 releasing Gateway. Why release stuff when you damn well know it doesn’t work very well? Cool to drive, impossible to get a race to work.
Unfortunately AMS2 is an unfinished product, with lots of issues on AI, Multiplayer, Physics, terrible sounds and force feedback.
I tried lots of times, every update I see the youtubers calling a "game changer has arrived", then I try it and still with lots of issues, with minimal improvements, with major issues not resolved.
It is so frustrating, will never try it again until I really saw someone relevant talking about the game fixed or playable.
American Stock Cars? HELLO?!?!? Nithing.
YouCantStopTheRock - Even AMS2 needs Rockingham (UK) oval. 😁
I agree with this so much I watched both the ads without skipping.
I’d like to see you review the rfactor2 Indycar on an oval 😂
I agree and the oval setup menu needs helppp
Impossible to spin? Default setup pushes all the way? You're sure you are driving the same game as me? On superspeedways I can't run a single lap without spinning twice, because the car way and way to loose, completely the opposite as you describe it. Amazing...
Lol 250 mph top speed on an oval is ridiculous.
My relationship with ams2 is the exact same. I play for maybe an hour or two after an update and I’m like meh, then don’t play again until the next update. I downloaded the update last night and couldn’t be bothered to play it. The AI are terrible, they cut corners and bring on so much dirt on the track and the multiplayer is a buggy unstable mess too. For me this game is only good if you like to simulate accurate weather whilst hot lapping. Out side of that there’s nothing to do or keep me hooked. I want it to do well, but man it’s just so meh and boring.
It just seems like a Dev trying to recreate oval racing that fundamentally doesn't understand oval racing.
Still don’t understand what Reiza are actually trying to achieve with this game, still unsure why I bought the season pass ages ago.
It’s a random assortment of cars classes, most of which are unfinished and have a terrible bop forcing people to use one car if they want to run a multiplayer race.
Weather and shiny graphics don’t make a great game.
I wish they would stop releasing half baked crap and just work on the multiplayer side of it so it actually had a chance of retaining a player base once they stop releasing content.
I’m a huge iracing fan boy yet I would like to get into this or acc. Everyone hates on iracing but it seems way further ahead than everyone. This or other titles look fun and I would love to play but honestly they always look like a arcade game / sim. Am I wrong ?
I think as with anything AMS 2 related, in about 6-12 months, most of these problems will be minimized if not solved. If you look at Gateway or Autoclub, and how the AI have been tuned from launch, it's clear Reiza is making a effort to get the indycar racing right...
IMS is kinda a outlier, becuase the devs have said in varous forms, it was a rush job to get it into the game before the MSG and Indycar went all scorched earth on us. The AI is clearly at it's worst at IMS, and hopefully after the next couple of patchs, they can cancel out the stupid pass attempts an minumize clumping...
Finally, and the thing I'm most worried about is the car phyisics. JUST TO BE CLEAR, YOU HAVE TO RELOAD OR RESET YOUR CAR SETUP EVERY TIME YOU LOAD INTO A OVAL TRACK FROM A ROAD COURSE. Otherwise the physics get confused, and it tries to put road racing parameters on the car, which isn't possible on the oval version of the car. It makes it extreamly slidey, and nearly impossible to drive above 180MPH as the tires just won't hold.
The flip side of that is, when the phyisics are working as intended, the cars clearly have so much sideforce they can't easilly spin. I wonder if that has to do with the way the car's undertrays are modeled more than the wings?
Regardless, Reiza says they're going to keep working on it, and for whatever it's worth as a random commenter on the interenet, I actually trust them to eventually get it right. But there's like 70-80% of a good oval experance in AMS 2 that just needs some tweaks to get right. Regardless, its a fuck ton better than Pcars 2 was...
AMS2 is perpetually *almost* a great sim, but never quite achieving it. The default setups are awful almost across the board, but even more than that, a lot of the car behavior makes no sense. The GT3s are a prime example of this, and an easy point of comparison because they're so ubiquitous across various sims.
They're simultaneously overly forgiving and overly punishing. Even the Porsche can be slid around corners, thrown over any bump or elevation change with the throttle flat and it will give no shits. But trying to brake? My god you'd better get on the brakes way early be a god of trailing because they are so incredibly unstable, even with the bias pushed far forward, until a certain point at which it suddenly becomes impossible to lose the car, but also impossible to trail brake because even the slightest amount of combined steering and brake input will turn you into an arrow.
There's no middle ground, either. 60/40 bias? Spin. 61/39? Spear. And then I turn off ABS and somehow the car becomes more forgiving and easier to trail brake? (if still a bit easier to spin than other sims IMO) It makes no sense, and I can't replicate it in any other sim. And then going through the Group A cars, the GT4s, Porsche Cups, etc. all have similar issues where something about the physics just feels off in a way that doesn't quite feel believable. Every sim has its weaknesses, but AMS2 feels like its are in places that feel more like something's broken than just the normal sim-to-sim variance in physics and behavior.
I say this as someone who drives AMS2 more than any other sim, too, so it's not like I hate it. A lot of the cars are super fun to drive like the Lancer Cups, GTEs, Brazilian stock cars, classic touring cars, etc. but it feels like it doesn't handle a lot of cars with specific needs like more sophisticated electronics and aerodynamics modeling very well, which is a shame. I really hope Reiza puts more work into some of those finer details, because that's what will make the sim enjoyable in the long run, IMO.
Bored already
SIMCADE PCARS 2
No, AMS2 is leagues better than PC2 at this point, but it still has a long way to go.
Hell, AMS1 is still one of the top sims to this day imo especially for offline racing, and AMS2 is nowhere close to it right now.
I'm not at all surprised the brazilian Project Cars 2 bootleg falls apart when the 'devs' try to implement something new.
Really not sure what the point of this comment is besides being weirdly hateful of Brasilians
Wait, why would a Brazilian dev team struggle more than a Yankee one?
@@skaldlouiscyphre2453 well you tell me why Reiza struggles so hard to make something original. AM1 was just rFactor2 witha a Brazilian reskin and a ton of bugs. AM2 is PC2 with a Brazilian reskin and everything that's not originally PC2 fallls apart at the seams. but oh muh brazilian pride!
It's not that I'm trying to say brazilian studios are bad, I guess I'm trying to say Reiza makes them look bad.
@@Callsign_Jaeger I'm not Brazilian, therefore I don't have any Brazilian pride.
You're just whining about something irrelevant when complaining that Reiza used an outside engine just like everyone else. Why is it a problem when Reiza does it but not when SimBin does it?
How many games were based on the rFactor engine after all? At least 7 others come to mind (not including AMS).
@@Callsign_Jaeger AMS 1 was based on rFactor 1, but yes, it has so many improvements that it looks like rFactor 2 sometimes. And hey, we are all free to opinions, but our opinions tend to be taken more seriously when the facts are correct and when we are not using ad hominem in our statements.
Emptee bahks!!
Say the line Bart!
@@AidanMillward Woozle-wuzzle?
AMS2 has so much potential and Reiza is working very hard at polishing this sim but… it has soooo many issues. The fanboys for this sim are as delusional as any fanboy can get regarding the state of this sim. Reiza sold a very unfinished game and in the past this would have been completely unacceptable but is completely okay now with 2 plus years to get the game to how it should have been from day 1.
Yeah, the whole “this sim is the best!” elitism is one of the worst things about simracing.