12 years of MTB. My current Hardtail is $699
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- čas přidán 28. 01. 2024
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I hear this. I also worked in a bike shop and people would always come in looking for something expensive because it's what they "need". To each their own, but when they come in a few weeks/months later because a costly part broke, now they can't ride because they either have to wait or save up for the part. When the shop tech rides a $2000 full suspension bike, and is happy to ride the trails every weekend, take note.
Im from germany and got into cycling last year again. I visited a few local shops and ended up not buying a bike because they employees always tried to talk me out of the base line models and recommended bikes for 1500$+ so i ordered mine online where no one influences my purchase since i have always been interested in riding and fixing bicycles myself.
Same thing for my friends who actually ended up buying very expensive gravel bikes. So there is also the other side of the coin.
@@BRZ420 It's unfortunate that a bike shop would do that. They lost a customer, and you had to go elsewhere to buy a bike.
lol I was that shop guy many moons ago with my $1000 hard tail xc bike haha
I definitely could have gone a level up and been happier though I think.
Excellent episode. This mentality has been at the core of your channel since I started watching, and I absolutely love that.
Mountain bike marketing makes me not want to ride them because I don’t do backflips.
Also, the extra bling in the opening was well done.
ride within your means, and get out there! I've always maintained that if my means ever changed for the riches: I will 100% go wild and get the craziest most bling stuff ever, but im not going to put myself in the hole for it now.
oddly the riches still haven't arrived hahaha
@@Spindatt if I had some riches, I’d glad send you some. Have fun today.
haha i can relate to the "not doing bike flips". I do ride a Decathlon AM 50 S which is a full suspension but purely for the extra comfort it gives me tired bones, not because i need it for the trails i ride.
Spitting the facts! Get something affordably priced for your budget and upgrade IF and WHEN you are ready to do it. Riding is a lot more fun than browsing for the bike that ticks every box possible.
you frigging know it Luis!
What you need in a mountainbike:
Geo and size that fits you
Fork with a lockout
Working drive train
Good grips, proper seat, decent pedals
Good tires
I never use my lock outs haha
This is a fantastic point. It doesn’t matter the bike, as long as it works, go ride it.
My bike is a Cannondale trail 6. An entry level trail bike I’ve done some changes to.
Is it fancy tech? No it has 9mm qr axels and a straight steerer tube.
Is it super comfortable? No it’s a hardtail on low end wheels and a cheap saddle.
Is it suitable for all mountain biking? God no.
But you bet I’m gonna at least try to ride it everywhere, on literally any surface I can bike on.
I did a wallride at 18mph on that thing stock, no changes to the build.
I cased a bunch of jumps on a suntour fork.
I slammed the 2x8 into every rock I could find until it outright broke.
You don’t need the fancy equipment just to have fun. Go buy like a $200 used bike from a few years ago and just ride it into the woods.
yep! 's what I did, only mine was $125 and into the back alleys and wooded cemetery lanes and community bike park. and more the fun, almost as much as my first Firestone Pilot that was my 10th birthday present in 1951.
Yeah!! I wish more folks would give a hard tail a try when starting out. there's a tonne of content about how great they are to start with/ride, but then you see the guy on an expensive full suspension in every other upload, so its hard to believe them from a new rider standpoint.
The entire outdoor industry is really, really good at convincing people that they "need" more than they really do. Just consider the phrase, "entry level." People immediately think one of two things: (1) being new at something is bad; and (2) that the "entry level" equipment won't be sufficient once they are no longer totally new to the sport. That's when the industry hits them with "if you're really serious about this, you'll need to spend four figures, minimum on your new sport...." Then add in a bunch of people echoing the same marketing speak to justify their own purchases, and you have new people who are convinced that they need to spend at least $2k to get an adequate mountain bike.
I was in a mountain biking FB group - all these dudes were riding bikes worth $3k and up. Then something would happen and they'd have to sell all their bikes to make ends meet. Think about that - people buying recreational equipment, probably on credit, that they can't really afford. Meanwhile telling other new people that they "need" a dual suspension, carbon framed, wonderbike so that they can then complain about how the local XC trails are boring. It's nuts.
Buy the bike you can afford and have fun.
At one point I had a $4,500 Santa Cruz full suspension bike, and a $1,000 hardtail.... I ended up riding the $4,500 bike so little that I actually sold it. Blank-check bikes have no soul.
hard tails are always such a good time
Thanks for this video. You don’t always need the best to have fun.
you can have fun on anything!
Do it!! Whoever you are, do it.
Great video!! 🤘
will report back haha
Hey man, thank you for saying what I tell customers at my shop. I build used bikes for a non-profit org and we are constantly fighting this odd notion that you need the latest tech or materials to get outside and ride. Much love from Berkeley, California!
Watching Sam Pilgrim always makes me remember that it's not the bike but the rider. So any mid level bike will do for any beginner!
the things he puts bikes through and them coming out the other end fine is always entertaining haha
I own a Norton and its my favorite mtb I've ever ridden. Anyone looking for there 1st (or 12th for that matter) mtb should seriously consider this bike.
This is possibly the best mountain bike video made so far this year. You have such a solid view on what people actually need to ride. You might get cancelled for this video.
lol! I appreciate that. not too worried about being cancelled though, this video will get 3000 views and die off like the rest of them haha
Entertaining and informative.
Subscribed!
Sound the alarm.
Thanks for joining along for the ride!
Excellent episode!
🙏
I learned so much about riding using a single speed rigid fork hardtail with disk brakes, teaches you picking routes and conserving energy and momentum. Costs very little and easy to look after. Most of all for me, any bike must be fun....
I remember the first time I went from my FS trail bike to an xc hard tail. Big eye opener on how bad I actually was at riding a mtb haha
I feel like I know that person, and i'm not even in the same country/hemisphere. Excellent diatribe.
Haha! I think we all know someone like this
Just got my Norton yesterday!!!
🤘
Same thing with road bikes. $1200 actually gets you a very usable bike, but many think because they’ve ridden for a year they need to upgrade to a few thousand. Thing is that won’t make them one bit quicker.
I too ride average bikes with average parts. I’ve got half a dozen or so projects like you that came together from parts. I recently had the good fortune to buy myself a top end bike. I lamented over doing it for a long time. I was surprised by how much more I like riding it actually. I didn’t think i’d care and I shouldn’t I know, but damn there’s something about an absolute weapon of a bike that makes me smile. Hope everyone gets to do it at least once.
for real, a better bike is indeed better! haha
still would hate for someone to never ride cause they feel the need to have that top end bike from the get go
Where have you been man? Also, I feel you on all my bikes being cheap. My most expensive bike is a 30 year old ti hardtail I got for free and slapped an m8000 group on. I’m probably only in about $750 on it and my next most expensive is my commuter because of the lights and studs.
Took the weekend off! mentioned it at the end of the last vlog haha
@@Spindatt must have missed it lol
Love this! My 15 year old Giant XTC hardtail I got for £60 has served me well and while it may be the bike that kills me, then my kid can ride it!
hahahah
that's a super good price to start out at! nice
That was Soo funny. Hope it is enough to pressure your friend to click 'buy'. I feel I need to keep watching your channel to balance the marketing from the rest of the industry. If I started watching you sooner I would have saved thousands 😊
lol hey, if you have the means to get into the higher end stuff, do it! it is better
Excellent message. People are all talk. They attempt to control things… choice of bike is perceived control. Being good at riding is out of their control. That requires doing.
I suppose I never thought of it this way!
I truly miss my specialized pitch I bought for $300 used. I rode the thing hard and learned a lot on that thing
Could always build something similar again with a couple little trick parts here and there for the fun of it!
Crazy good deal! I bought a Giordano Intrepid in the summer of 2023, and upgraded the components. I think it is a great riding frame, and i love the way it rides, but the full Norton for $699 would have been better!
yeah $699 is a wild price!
Nicely done. A couple more entertaining data points for you. My son races enduro. Most of the kids have quite pricey bikes, and he was holding his own on a Polygon siskiu T8. He breaks things quite often, including the frame, twice. Pretty sure this was due to installing a coil that was too soft for the things he is capable of doing to a bike. When he breaks his bike, he rides my Framed Bobtrax carbon hardtail. I got the frame for 340 and the DIY carbon wheels for about 670. All the other parts are inexpensive. He holds his own at enduro practice on that as well, clocking faster times than kids on 5-7k bikes while doing things that really should not be done on a XC hardtail. The bike and wheels are solid, even despite the bike cartwheeling off our camper on the highway, me smashing into a tree at high speed, and bashing the frame with plate sized rocks in the Catskills that was fixed with 2 part epoxy. My son is now on a Specialized Enduro, made possible by the fact that he works at a bike shop, gets insane discounts and is happy to put all his money in his bike. Is is faster on the Enduro? Yes, but not all that much, at least yet, and we are talking speeds that most mortals will not approach. I ride a lowly Specialized Status that has held its own through 10 enduro races and many 10's of thousands of vertical feet of training last year, mostly in extremely wet conditions.
A fantastic anecdote to show what I’m saying!
Yes: a nicer bike feels better and is faster for sure.
But
Yes: you can absolutely get out there and get onto most of everything with a lower cost option
Hey Man, cool statement✌. Bike marketing on any media will always tell you: There is something better, buy it. Question yourself: Do I really need this?? The answer will be no in most cases. Are you gonna ride next rampage? No, I don't. Half of the fun is gettin better in ridin and whyle improvin' update your bike. Little updates very often cause big improvement to the bike. A hardtail will often satisfy most riders. And I think, it's better to have more than one high prize bike. So you better have two in midprize or low budget. It's fun enough to ride them and become a better rider.
lol exactly, and our trails here "mostly" don't call for anything particularly wild when it comes to the bike required.
Just bought a 90's MTB off dutch craiglist (marketplaats) for $30, it's in great condition and I can't wait to do some fun gravel and chill MTB trails on it for the price of a fancy dinner!
enjoy that!!
Don't worry spinney I'll ride with you.. come to NY and we will RIDE!
I want to visit NY at some point for sure!
If the bike makes you want to ride, no matter what it cost, it's perfect.
I have been riding mtn bikes for over 32 yrs now, have gone from two hardtails, then three different full suspension bikes, and now I am back to a 27.5 plus hardtail. It's nothing fancy, and I have made a few upgrades over the last 3 years, but it still makes me want to get out and ride. I am amazed at the current crop of riders on their $5k+ full suspension bikes only to go ride smooth, machine built flow trails. Me, I still prefer hand-cut technical singletrack.
definitely!! ill always say make sure the bike is something you love looking at, and get hyped on. such a powerful way to get the motivation to go out and ride.
Mannnnn, I'm still rocking a 2009 kona stuff special edition size medium (the one with the adjustable bolt on drop outs). It's been heavily upgraded over the years and has gone from an entry level dj bike all the way to what it is now, an aggressive all mountain trail bike. I love my old bike and as long as I can find 26" forks, wheels and tires.. I'll keep riding it and loving it. As much as I'd love some new 27.5" aggressive hardtail such as a rocky mountain soul or growler.. id rather keep riding my current bike until it literally won't go anymore. It's not about the bike (most of the time) it's about getting out there to rip it up.
gotta ride to progress and improve!
Last year I rode a gravel bike on a ton of MTB trails, the only thing that kept me from keeping up was my own skill and fitness, Once mid summer hit I was in good enough shape that I was able to keep up with the MTBs on our local weekly trail runs.
Your friend just needs any bike to see if they like it, then they can drop $$$$ after the get hooked.
Put drop bars on Fast Norton, all the cool kids are doing it.
Funnily enough it was the 'opposite' of that for me over the past year, riding my cheap MTB with a gravel group and (on good days) being able to keep up with everyone. My bike was probably one of the cheapest ones in the group and it was such a satisfaction to be able to hang with people on their bikes that are much better suited to the terrain, I have to work extra hard on uphills to avoid getting dropped but I can catch up on the downhills because I can roll over rougher bumps, etc.
Eventually I do want a gravel bike so I can fully enjoy the experience with the friends I've made there, but it's definitely taught me that you can just get out there and ride on whatever, and that I don't need to break the bank when I do go for that gravel option in the future if I was already keeping up on a heavier frame with fatter tires and flat bars.
so specialized makes pathfinders in a mtb 2.1, see if you can find a set of those, then throw some drops on it and you have a great gravell bike! @@Saftkeur
@@maritimezombie7684 I've actually already gone for some 2.3" XC tires, and while the difference wasn't hugely noticeable most of the time (stock tires were 2.4"), it's definitely faster on flatter ground! Just waiting for rides to start back up again so I can get back out there, I've also got inner bar ends so while I don't have drops, I do have pseudo-hoods for a riding position :D
This bike is currently my more 'adventure' bike, and I'm budgeting for potentially a Diverge in the future (I'm in my local bike shop pretty frequently so I've probably got a discount waiting if I decide to go for one). That way I can set both up for different types of riding more easily, since I do like the meatier tires for some of the trails (and potholes) around me.
I love all bikes really 😊 and have owned a few full susp.mtb' s But as I get older simpler is just how I like it
I love a full suspension, but a new rider can have fun on anything!
@@Spindatt definitely
I have from high priced bikes to budget. But my bike I ride was 863 5 years ago last year I paid 1200 salsa hard tail. And dropper post.
I rode a Giant Rincon when I lived in California and Colorado. Best MTB destinations I lived in and if I could do it all over again I'd definitely have gotten a better bike. But at least I got out and tried. Better than "saving up" and never going out at all. That Costco surfboard was another story...
extremely well put, and exactly my mentality: I personally WANT better bikes. Like.. long for better bikes actually. but I am not willing to NOT ride just cause I want something better. without what I have now, I wouldn't have been riding for the last 12 years
Well made point. I started mountain biking in 1987 am a bike mechanic and frame builder and have been that bike snob. just to come full circle. I went from high end full squish back to hard tail, a Ragley mmmbop I built up as my main trail bike and just built a Salsa Jorneyer for my transpo/gravel ride. $1700 and $800 respectively. Both those bikes combined come in WAAAAAY below the cost of the full squish I used to own like by 50% and the Ragley has better components.
its funny how often I hear of people going through this exact cycle!
I love the white! I hope they sell the Norton in white someday.
Treats for Norton from Lou and Angie! 🐾
Thank you so much!! Features in tomorrow’s upload.
Been a few days since Norton’s got a treat haha
Has potential for e-conversion too. Nice mid drive 1500-ish watt..
I suppose any bike has that potential! hah
Preach 🙌
🙌
I still ride my 1997 Gary Fischer, it's still good for most stuff.
honestly something like that would be fine on the flow trail and a couple other trails at Wentworth.
I will admit, I've got a very very nice full suspension Enduro bike, but i also have a hardtail that I built up from a $300 frame and a bunch of parts that were laying around. And while yes, I love my Transition spire, and I wouldn't get rid of it for anything, on the right trails the hardtail is often more fun to ride! Don't disregard the budget options!
Nothing wrong with having the “good stuff”! I just want new riders to know it’s not the reason veteran riders are actually able to go out and ride haha
You can't know what you want until you know what a mountain bike is. Buy a bike, ride it, if you don't like it, sell it, buy a different one with the things you learnt from the first one. And on and on... can't go swimming without getting wet.
the amount of times I have made this exact argument to my buddy is no longer countable on two hands haha
I'm influenced! I'm a roadie, and ride a DJ at Ray's MTB. I'm curious about riding some of the public MTB trails in my region (mostly beginner single track). Norton is in my budget....so tempted...
I'd bet you could even do some of that riding on your dirt jumper!
@@Spindatt I should try!
The other thing is full suspension is so much more maintenance. While the stock Norton fork is a bit heavier than I personally like, a new person is never going to want to pay for rebuilding my helm mkII every 6 months, or learning to change fork seals
yeah its definitely a stout machine, but with a fork swap it lightens up drastically. I bought the yari that I had on it for the last little while for $250CAD. that was an unbelievable upgrade
@@Spindatt yes best upgrade was the fork, the brakes I switched just so the bike patrol wouldn't look at me funny and I am going to ride the square taper bb till it wears out!
I ride a tracklocross on mtb trails, mostly cross country riding, its been fine, no jumps or anything
that's super fun too
I love it, I thought about getting a cross country bike, but I feel I don’t need it
I got back into riding after a 10 year hiatus at the start of the pandemic. Couldn't find a bike and I ended up splurging on a bike that is way more capable than I am. At 54 now, this is probably my last real dual suspension bike and it's a big upgrade from my 26" Stumpy which is now relegated to a commuter. The moral of the story is..... BUY the darn bike and get out there riding and costly bikes are just that costly. Riding time and years gone by are not something you'll get back so get out and enjoy riding as much as possible. 😁
at least you know its something you can progress into for years to come! hah
Marketing is like fools gold, It’s a you thing, You’re the engine, Whatever you push out will be the output and subsequently you can build up on it over time, Yes, Just start riding that’s how you know you’re getting better and what ever you need to work on.
there definitely is a difference between a low end machine and high end, but not so much that one can't be ridden over the other for the trails we have. I feel like some folks think a low cost bike won't be able to ride in a straight line or something hahah
@@Spindattyou said that right, I’m lucky that I started riding with people who beat up their new bikes until it’s time to upgrade and made me see, That you ride a bike to test yourself not the machine you ride. Cause we’d all be running almost the same setup and it doesn’t make too much difference. It was all up to the rider and their skills. So none of our group developed an elitist attitude which what made it cool. 😁
Sometimes a more simple or less expensive setup can make you work harder and then you improve more in your fitness or skill level. I ride a single speed urban type of bike but I ride all the time and I suck people into racing me on they're multi speed bikes and let them outsprint me then have fun catching them over the next few miles because I am in better condition from pushing myself to peddle a higher gear every year on my SS.
if I had more disposable funds id put together a single speed hard tail for the same reason
@@Spindatt You might consider a bmx of some sort
My Enduro bike is an Canyon Torque ES 9.0 26inch Wheels in Size L is from 2009 and i ride and ride and ride it hard :D they got this year a makeover and new Stuff and feeling everytime like a good 27.5 MTB and it has 170 front and rear mm suspention, my second Bike is an DH from Votec, the Votec VD Elite 2016 ^^ its Shred and ride like a god and its Mullet 27.5 and 26 :) i dont need some new Bikes :D my Old ones are really great ^^.
I would want nothing to do with a full sus for my first bike. A reliable and simple hardtail ftw!
my single pivot is a frigging treat! two bearings only
Seeing that the bike market is crashing rn, What do you think would be a good upgrade seeing some brands are doing more than 50% of markdowns, Of course it’s gonna be BIYO.
Same with josh from daily mtb rider.
I don't know what BIYO means hahaha
my upgrades would go:
fork
wheels
cranks
brakes
done
Still wondering where the "threats" at the very end gone - could be a good opportunity to bring one back
I know! Agreed!
oh: I lost interest and stopped having fun with coming up with them. they aren't coming back
What's the wheel MM ID and gun brand?
25 or 30mm ID?
Novatech or?
The wheels I have on this bike currently are WTB i23 rims, with stock formula hubs. Mounted on them are 2.6” wide tires.
I hope your friend comes into the fold as this was a valiant effort. What did you have for dinner?
chicken and veggies!
I feel like people get into the same mentality when buying their first motorcycle (I did too). The countless youtube searches of "is XZY a good beginner bike?"
oh my gosh that's a whole other can of worms! I found myself doing it too with the Vitpilen. then I just went for it and pulled the trigger. happy boy
I spent over a grand on my fatbike that I use with studded tires for winter safety otherwise I just buy used bikes under a grand. I think the most I spent was about $800.
Nice!
I just put a deposit on a Marino frame. Did you have to pay any extra duty charges getting it shipped to Canada?
I don't think so, they just dropped them to me once I signed the dotted line!
Sadly. People vastly overestimate the impact of 'the good stuff'. Vastly. None of my bike cost more than $1000. Most hover $500 or less. I'd ride them to the end of the world and back.
I would argue it's more the other way around. I think people completely underestimate how much riding can be done on a good entry level bike, and feel they need to be on something much higher end so they aren't held back.
"the good stuff" is undeniably better in every way, but that fact shouldn't stop someone from the normal starting point
Good life lesson. I Still ride my 2008 trek 6000 every day. Couple upgrades here and there but why fix something that ain't broken. Not having one expensive hobby let's me have a bunch of other inexpensive hobbies.
You can adapt to any bike/geometry! I think people riding new bikes forget what it was like to ride their old bikes. I include myself in that as well!
@@Spindatt think of all the crazy shit we did on our bikes as kids! Those things never even got a tune up!
My mountain bikes are OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive. I feel attacked 😂
lol that's not the intention at all! if I had the means (and for some reason in my head, I feel like I'll be a rich man for no good reason one day) I will 100% have stupid expensive bikes. always riding within my means!
I actually WISH I had friends to star mountain biking with…
Look up some group rides in your area!
@@Spindatt unfortunately I haven’t found any newbie friendly groups yet. I’ll try a course or something like that
run what you brung
Just playing devils advocate here, I ride a hardtail or a FAT BIKE most of the time. I would argue that my full suspension bike is just easier to ride. The suspension just hides so many lazy habits or errors in riding. That said, your friend should buy the T-6. Or a Salsa Beargrease.
the statement is completely true in every way, and that's the part that sucks.
when he hears that a full suspension is better, which it is, he doesn't want to get in at the ground floor with a hard tail. And then he hears that a nicer bike is better over the T6, and goes well: I didn't want to have a worse bike than I could have got. so then you are looking at 3.5 to 5K bikes going: well shit these are way too expensive. Endless cycle haha
@@Spindatt hopefully the commentary will help your friend get over the indecision paralysis
Can anyone say me ehat coil shock he has on his trail bike 🙏 (1:12)
its a marzocchi bomber coil with a cane creek progressive spring
@@Spindatt Thanks, u got very nice bikes i like them
Why in the world is this bike equipped with Juin Techs when the true hydraulic MT200s are better and cheaper?
Covid spec
The sobbification of MTB has been a complete success... Unfortunately.
that's okay, we've got our own little corner of scrappy riding right over here