Laying The Base And Building The Staging Yard Ladder (232)
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- čas přidán 15. 12. 2021
- Staging yards allow us to achieve two major objectives on our model railroads. First they provide a place to store complete trains ready to run on the model railroad, and second they represent off-line railroads and destinations that expand our layouts beyond the physical limits of our train rooms. In this video series I am going to build the first of two staging yards on myHO Piedmont Southern layout. This one represents all points south and west of Lynchburg Virginia Later I will be adding a second staging yard that will represent points north and west of Charlottesville Virginia. More importantly they will allow me to stage pre-built trains that will run on the layout during operating sessions, eliminating the need for a mole job and active fiddle yard operations. In this first in the series of videos I'll lay the foam insulation base for the yard and go over the soldering techniques for pre-building the eight turnout yard ladder that forms the heart of the staging yard.
- Jak na to + styl
In order to get more yard tracks in less space, you can cut off the last couple of inches past the frog on the straight rail and attach the next turnout closer to the previous one..
Building a trains yard in HO scale .
I usted nails for the tracks .
Code 80 Atlas.
Manual and remote switchs .
Flex tracks .
I'm a train and I approve this video :D
Dang! These videos just keep getting better and better.....
Thanks Larry, Merry Christmas!!
Great 👍 job... I think I here chewy barking towards the end as you solder lol 😆😆😆
Larry I guess this staging yard will connect to your helix and reverse loop at some in the future and I found your videos thanks a lot
Yes
Thanks Larry, now I need to build it
The water bottle tip is a great idea. Its a wonder I never thought of it. Thanks Larry
Wow nice upload today. Thanks for sharing.
Well done Larry. Can't wait to see haw everything comes together.
great job Larry, I enjoyed watching you assemble the ladder.
Great video Larry. The new joiners look great and I agree about those rough edges. I also like the tip on sanding the frog areas. Thank-you.
Thank you for sharing. Enjoyed.👍👍👍👍👍
Very fine! It is interesting that the Micro Engineering ties are a little more heat resistance. Thanks for sharing!
Good info 🚂🚂👍👍👍👍👍great video
Good video. I always pre-build sections with a lot if consecutive turnouts. That seemed the most logic at the time.
I’m about to start the yard on my new layout. This going to be very helpful,thanks Larry
Great tutorial, looking forward to the rest!
Great Video Larry, catching up on your Work following the Christmas break, hope you and yours had a lovely peaceful Christmas and all the best for a healthy, safe and successful New Year.
RE: 11:20 - something I discovered recently a handy tool for installing rail joiners without cutting my fingertips ..... take a piece of rail and bend it upward about the length of 1½ rail joiners, leaving a handle about 2½ - 3 inches past the bend. Slide a rail joiner onto the short end up against the bend, leaving about ½ length of rail joiner. Solder the first rail joiner on the bent rail; add a wooden dowel for a handle to the long end.
To use - slide a rail joiner into the short end and use the tool to slide the joiner onto the track; then slide the tool back, leaving the rail joiner on the tract itself.
Been working with joining rail since the 70s and have just recently discovered this home-made tool ..... so simple to make and really helps installing joiners onto rails. I have 2 - - one for Code 83 (useful) and one for Code 70 (VERY useful, especially with ME track).
I saw that recently on Charlie Bishop’s channel but promptly forgot to try it. Thanks for the reminder.
Ahoj super jak vždy děkuji Petr🍻
As always, I'm jealous of your long straight section of layout. :)
Turnouts have become hen's teeth. It's almost impossible to find Micro Engineering turnouts other than some of their b-e ladder pieces. Where they ARE sporadically listed in stock, the prices are often much higher than they were.
Those very nice Walthers turnouts don't seem to be available at any price anywhere. The Walthers site says February. But I rather doubt it.
It looks like a lot of us will be doing structures & scenery first, then building a railroad in it. Rather like railroads in real life!
I have a friend who is an ME dealer and he orders direct from them. I got an order of track before Thanksgiving in about a week.
I agree, a well done presentation.
RE: (approx.) time stamp 15:15 ..... something I learned *many* years ago - a broken piece of hacksaw blade will also work very well for dressing the flangeways of off-the-shelf frogs, guard rails and crossings. piece about 3 inches long of a medium tooth hacksaw blade not only will clean out the depth, it will also leave the flangeways the really close to the NMRA standards width as well. I have used this trick also when doing old-style hand laying of turnouts and crossings (as opposed to something like Fast Tracks jigs or BK Enterprises turnout kits). It cuts the excess solder down quickly and is easily controlled (moreso than using a Dremel cut off wheel).
IMO and experience, of course ..... ;)
I guess I’ll be breaking one of my old blades into sections now.
Larry yes the new Walthers turnouts have a connection provided for the frog , they are well built, just hard to get a this time
Excellent, thanks. I checked Walthers to order one but as you say they are out of stock. The great thing about ME turnouts is if I need them my friend who is a dealer can get them in about a week.
Hi Larry, thank you for this great video. I was wondering if you would consider your wiring book to be up to date. I'm completely new at all this. Thanks!
Yes, I think it is.
Great tutorial Larry. Are the bases of code 83 and code 100 the same that those rail joiners fit both well? How about a tour of your layout or a track plan of what exists or what you want it to be?
I hope you noticed on the second joint you left a gap between tracks. Granted the shouldering will complete the the electric circuit, however the gap could cause derailments. Not good in a hidden statement yard.
On the other hand I do like the trenching of the roadbed for feeder wires (in Part 2).
Jim
Yes, but it only looks large because I was zoomed in while doing that joint. I checked it afterwards and can’t even get a #11 blade in there. The solder flowed into the gap and filled it so in reality it is not an issue.
Thank you for sharing. Today's video just came just on que as I was planning on ask you on the wairing (and controling) for a reverse loop/staging yard combination that John Armstrong shows in his book Trrack Planing for Realistic Operation (page 104 on my copy). I'm intrigued as the reversing loop has two turnouts: one for the layout and other to the yard. Thank you.
My copy only has 100 pages so you’ll need to tell me more about the track plan you refer too. Got a name or anything?
In the book it's called: "Rverted” loop. Used to add a staging yard to the end of a loop to loop layout. It's at the end of Schematics for satisfactory operations chapter. If you picture the reversing loop as a teardrop with a turnout in the pointy side, that turn out will lead to the staging yard. The teardrop has a second turnout, that second turnout turnout is located on the curved section of the teardrop and connected to the layout. 1) the train enters the teardrop and goes directly to one of the unoccupied legs of the yard. 2) that train goes back to the teardrop,where is reversed and returned to the yard. 3) to get back to the layout the train goes back to the teardrop and exist thru the turnout in the curved section.
Yes, I know it well. He originally used it decades ago on his O scale Canandaigua Southern layout in Silver Spring MD. I visited the layout once at an open house he had. An interesting concept to say the least. I have never figured out the best way though to incorporate it into a layout design and I can’t remember seeing it in any of his track plan books or in MR.
Well done thanks for sharing. I well do this in January when I build my hidden yard. Would it be convenient to add the flux paste in the rail joiner before you slide it on the rail to help the solder melt over to both sides?
I think you would find that messier and it would not prep the web of the rail as well.
Just wanna say a few things.
If you need to sand your points for them to work properly.....you need to buy diffrent track from a better manafacturer.
Those rail joiners you used looked REALLY loose on those points aswell. I would throw those away and find ones that fit tighter, might just be the two you showed us rather than all of them but still.
All Walthers have frog tabs and also Atlas has the tabs. Just received 2 Atlas LH #8 switches with the soldering tabs.
That’s a great development if all these manufacturers are doing it on all their products. Glad to hear it, thanks.
Wonderful detailed share. Could you please tell me the size, brand, and power of your soldering iron. It looks quite nice. THANK YOU!
Hakko FX888D I mainly use the a flat tip or a pencil tip. I got it off Amazon so take a look there for all the options.
What about using Homasote? It is not available much here in the Pacific NW. Years ago I learned how to use it while a member of a club in Colorado Springs, CO. It was easy to use and spike down track.
Plus I’ve worked on a club layout recently where they used some kind of white hard foam. I had to rebuild the road bed and base with other material like cork because the foam had started breaking down from being compressed. What does this foam do after years of use?
What brand of turnouts are you using? Does sanding the frogs help reduce dead spots over frogs? Or do you wire up power leads between the frogs and switch machines?
I used to use it in NVa but it is not available down here. Plus I like the flexibility if using foam insulation. I have used foam for over 15 years and it seems pretty stable. I power my frogs by wiring them to the SODT in the switch machine
Larry, the single ladder arrangement you have used takes a lot of length resulting in a significant discrepancy between the shortest and longest staging tracks, even using what appear to be #6 switches. I understand not using a compound ladder to shorten its overall length since reliability is paramount in a hidden minimum access staging yard like yours. But was there no way to have the lead track come in aligned between the two middle tracks and then use a number #3 wye as the first switch with #6 switches on each route out of the wye to minimize the overall ladder length. (#4 wye and #8 switches combination could also work if running a lot of passenger trains.) This would have resulted in more even track lengths and an overall greater capacity. Just wondering about the track planning constraints you faced.
I have more than enough room in that location to spread out, so space was not the issue. Being a hidden yard where I will need to back in passenger trains I wanted #6 turnouts and the smoothest possible traffic flow plus I had laid in a large supply of ME #6 turnouts some time ago. My other staging yard will be in a more challenging but visible location where I will probably use a split design like you mention. Instead of the wye arrangement I plan to use the Walthers double crossover on the approach track with each track going into a short ladder. And for that one I likely will use the ME yard ladder turnouts.
What are you using for a soldering iron?
That is a Hakko FX-888D soldering station I purchased on Amazon. It heats up quickly and the tip is thermostatically controlled so you always get the same temp. More importantly the tip is well grounded so you get no electrical leakage through it to kill sensitive electronics such as decoders.
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you
Where can I get a Honing Stone like that? What I need to avoid damaging my Frogs.
Amazon
@@TheDCCGuy Thank You Sir! Merry Christmas!
Hi Larry. The Walters rail joiners look a little too loose for my liking - possibly leading to an unsatisfactory connection (OK, I spoke too soon as I didn't know you were going to solder the joins!). I would also question the quality of the Micro Engineering turnouts if they need "finishing" with a honing stone and/or Dremmel. One last thing: it's not good practice to blow on soldered joints to get the solder to set - this can lead to dry joints and a poor electrical connection. See you next time.
Although it looks loose it provides a tighter fit than many of the others in my collection. I also have some that are so tight they have be pried open just to get them onto the end of the rail and others are so loose they fall off.
@@TheDCCGuy Always look for a happy compromise.
I did notice that you are using Micro Engineering turnouts. I didn't catch the number for the turnout. I.E. a #5 or a #6? Also why did you not use their ladder system? Thanks
I used #6 because this is a hidden yard and I will be backing passenger trains into the tracks. I did not use the ladder system because I had purchased a large supply well in advance before they were available. I have enough turnouts to complete my entire layout. Expensive but it has insulated me against price increases and shortages.
@@TheDCCGuy Okay. I am designing my layout based on the Red Rock Northern track plan that appeared in Model Railroader Magazine. (June 2007) I was wondering if I should use the Ladder system as I will be using steam engines and long passenger cars as well. Hopping to avoid problems.
May I ask why you (and others) think it is necessary to glue down the foam? A few wood screws and fender washers will secure that stuff just fine. Five minutes and you are done. Plus you can remove the foam in the future if necessary. Plus you can carve out a river down to the wood without having to scrape off the glue.
One big advantage of using foam sheets over plywood is that you can use less expensive grades of plywood to provide a very smooth surface on which to lay track. I just don’t accept that screwing it down i a few places with provide a smooth stable surface. It is especially important to get a smooth connection at joints without an buckling or warping that screwing might induce. I have never had any problems with cutting ditches or other features in glued foam sheet and on e laid I don’t expect to remove it again until the layouts broken up. However even if I did I is easy enough to slide a long thin metal blade between the plywood and foam to remove a section.I have been doing it this way for 20 years or so and find it much better than my previous adventures with L girder and open frame benchworrk scenery methods.
@@TheDCCGuy Screwing it down doesn't induce any warping or buckling whatsoever in my experience. In fact it seems to me that gluing would more likely produce an uneven surface if the glue is not meticulously spread out, more so with thinner foam. I put 1.5 inch foam over 1/2 inch OSB quite successfully with wood screws and fender washers. The result is perfectly flat. And OSB is certainly a less expensive grade of flat stock. I even mounted the OSB with the good side on the bottom for better mounting of switch machines, etc. That left the rough side up for the foam to rest on. The foam smoothes that out nicely. And it is quite stable as the roughness of the OSB provides plenty of friction to resist lateral movement. It will not move once screwed together tightly. When I screw it down I tighten it until the foam collapses enough under the washer such that the screw head is flush with or a little shy of the surface. Then a piece of blue painter's tape covers it up. After scenery materials are applied and the screw is hidden I can still find the it in the future by either making note of where it is or using a magnet.
Clearly you have not tried this technique. Give it a try sometime and observe the result. I might convert you. 🙂
BTW I have observed significant foam shrinkage on several pieces that were just laid on plywood (not fastened down) and on some that were glued down. I don't know whether fastening by screws rather than glue would help with preventing the shrinkage, but I doubt it. I'm experimenting with cutting relief kerfs across the foam every two feet.
Carry on, my man. I always enjoy your videos even though I don't agree with some of the techniques.
Glad you find it works with 1.5” foam. The shrinkage factor has been reported in the past but most manufacturers claim to have fixed the problem a decade ago-I have not seen it myself. As the old saying goes there’s more than one way to skin a cat.
Sadly, Micro Engineering is for sale. The ME code 83 Ladder tracks are out of stock everywhere, as well as their regular #5 and #6 right and left turnouts!!! Who knows if they will ever be in stock again. I sure hope someone buys the company, or ME will continue production until someone purchases them. Who knows though???? Very, very frustrating for people who love the ME products!!!😬😩
Odd, my friend who is a ME dealer talked to the owner just before Thanksgiving and there were no plans to shut things down and he got my order for all the tracks and turnouts I used plus a lot more in under a week. I’ll see if he has heard anything new.
@@TheDCCGuy Yes, Please do Larry. I spent 4 hours online yesterday checking for code 83 ladder pieces. None to be found anywhere, except the last 5e portion to end the ladder. So frustrating. Maybe I need to try ME direct? I found some code 70, but code 83 is not to be had at the moment. All the online stores said backordered.
Why use the yardstick on the rails and not the ties, it would still be tight and straight right,
Not all ties are the same length whereas the rails are.
@@TheDCCGuy okay. It always seems to work for. However I will try it your way and see if I get better results. Thank you.
I commented and received an error when I clicked the Comment button. The post I made disappeared. So I will try again.
You mentioned DCC Concepts and from what you said my guess is that you are talking about their wireless control panels using the ESP system. I have emails going back and forth with the guys at DCC Concepts. The have sent me two diagrams for wiring up the ESP system with the Digitrax Command Station and PM42s. They have commented and recommend using the Alpha Power and Booster boxes so the ESP transmitter doesn't "trip." So, one PM42 channel feeds the Booster which is powered by the power supply. The Booster feeds the ESP transmitter. Since I have their DCP boards to control the non-DCC Tortoise machines they show those in the next diagram. However, the Alpha Power box and Booster adds an additional $225-230 to the total cost. Do you know a way to avoid that cost? I do have a new PC power supply with voltage breakout board under the layout. Maybe you can discuss this in your coming video?
The reasons I am looking at the wireless control panels is two. One, I am one who prefers to control my turnouts from a panel. Two, I like the idea of eliminating the multitude of wires that run out of a control panel and under the layout. I could break up my railroad into four sections controlled by four control panels. The switching areas work out that way.
Yes, you figured it out, it will be the ESP wireless control panel system. I have not looked over their Alpha system yet so cannot really comment on it. So let’s look at the ESP system. The transmitter boards are what are installed in the control panel to send switch changes to the receiver. The receiver in turn combines the transmitter data into DCC commands on accessory bus and sneds them on to the accessory decoders controlling the switch machines. To do this the ESP receiver on the layout creates a stand alone 1.5 amp accessory bus. If that is not enough for you or if you want the DCC system commands included on the accessory bus then you can use the main DCC power bus to power the receiver board but again will be limited to 1.5 amps. A third option is to feed the output from the receiver into another DCC booster and the pass through current will be the same as the booster rating. I will go over all of this in the 4th or 5th video depending on how much I cram into the upcoming ones.
@@TheDCCGuy I know you need one receiver in the accessory buss wire. The transmitters are in the control panel(s). Communication is wireless. So, perhaps they are stating that the standalone accessory buss needs the Alpha boxes to power and provide enough amps to the transmitter which in turns powers that accessory buss. l suppose if one had routing programmed to control multiple Tortoise machines and enough of them were thrown at the same moment one could consume all the available amps creating a power issue. I am sure you have a lot more turnouts than I plan to use. I am looking at less than 24 on the whole layout. I will be interested in what you come up with in your videos. I do plan to go this route. Below is the DCC Concepts video explaining the ESP system. Note, Richard does mention that it is part of the Alpha system and that is a family of products that go together.
@@TheDCCGuy czcams.com/video/xMAI7FN0S5o/video.html
I looked at their website a d it appears the Alpha central box is a self contained control panel in itself. The Alpha booster is just that a dumb booster to provide extra power if needed. With 24 Tortoises you would not need more than 1/2 amp of if all were running at the same time which is highly unlikely. So in most case the ESP receiver’s 1.5 amp output should be overkill. However I may use a booster like the Tamm Valley Depot one just to lower the drain on the main DCC power bus, but only if I end up lowering every accessory decoder on the layout with that power. Keep in mind that you only need one ESP receiver on your layout since any number of transmitters can be paired with it, even if they are in different control panels.
@@TheDCCGuy If we had email I would share with you the diagrams I received from DCC Concepts. By the way, on the control panel with that silver hinged frame in the DCC Concepts video, those on Amazon are called "Snap Frames". You can get those in the aluminum color, but a company called BNV has those frames in 8.5"x11" in different colors. You could have a different colored frame for each control panel or settle on one color for all the control panels. Anxiously waiting for your videos on the ESP system.