Introducing CK3 - Battles
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
- Pixelated Apollo joins us once again to tell us everything about terrain. From terrain to advantage you shan't lose another battle. Check out Pixelated Apollo's channel here: / pixelatedapollo1
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To chase or not to chase that is the question.
how is this comment 4 days old when the video came out 5 minutes ago?
Vulcanist You can make a video available at any time on CZcams. Some videos are available to certain people earlier than others. The creator channel can post comments at any time.
Vulcanist ya wut
Squirrell!
Good evening.
I didn't find how to contact you, so I'll write here.
I would like to try to voice your videos about the mechanics of CK3.
But, since these are your videos, before that I want to ask your permission to translate.
Please give your answer, whatever it may be.
Respectfully,
Merchron.
I now know more about combat in ck3 than anyone has ever known about combat in ck2
in ck2 the more heavy inf and cav you have the better your army was.
@@gabrielcollstefoni7765 Camels, camels are the thing
Few knew about actual "Combat Tactics" and how to fire them properly with its according unit composition
Because no one knew anything about combat in ck2, not even the devs
@@noahsyndergaard1560 not true
Gonna start paying more attention to my troop quality and type now. All I used to worry about in CK2 was numbers.
Only thing that matters in Ck2 is heavy infantry and heavy cav. Everything else might as well be numerical.
Yeah, on CK2 if you dont have heavy cav and the other side has it you can outnumber them 3 to 1 and they will detroy you. 1K heavy cav makes all the difference.
Same, also seen in a video that some building effect individual unit types. Ie hide tent gives archers +2 damage, per building, the youtuber used this with archer en-mass to destroy the ai.
and plus-minus terrain bonus
I used to create armies based around pikes and archers, I could beat armies 3x+ my size with minimal casualties, troop composition is big in ck2
The moment they talked about dice rolls I remember hearing someone on CZcams say: 'I remember when Alexander the Great rolled a six against the Persian general'
'Yep tough luck that the Persian general rolled a 1'
Easiest way to simulate unexpected battlefield situations. Apollo did say that some traits could change the range of dice roll, so I think great general would never roll 1. Personally, I like randomised battles and this is the way to do it.
@@AlbonitumG I believe the Cautious trait makes your dice roll something like a 3-8 rather than 1-10 for example. So a commander with that will never take the big rewarding risks represented by a 9 or 10 but likewise means they don't suffer the failures of those risks represented by a 1 or 2.
Yeah, thats from a Bokoen video.
@@darklordaranyx2467 yeah do you know which one?
@@airstrike9002 it was an eu4 video I believe but forgot which one
I want a Medieval Total War with the same gameplay, updated graphics, and same map as this game.
That's my dream _Total War: Medieval III_ right there. Because of that, it's unlikely to be made anytime soon... at least by CA and not by the modders.
@Based Chad The dream would be paradox over-world with total war style battles, imagine if they made a game together.
@Based Chad I don't know man. One you send vampires against laser shooting lizards so you can kill the Dragon riding elves that were weakened after their battle with steampunk rats all the while deciding if the human with the golden mask is worth trading with, you can't really go back to stuff like this. IF that's what you consider dumbed down then I'm all for it.
Though paradox knows how to write a good story arhc despite it all being mostly text and if I wanted to read an adventure I'd play a visual novel
@Based Chad Three Kingdoms is alot more indepth and battles is Paradox biggest weakness, i feel Stellaris struck the perfect compromise. Such a shame about CK3
@@Latinkon 1212 is getting close
That impatient trait be hitting hard now yo
Yeah, what bothers me the most is that publishers don't look at calendars when releasing their games. September 1st is in the middle of the freaking week... release it in a Friday so that we can play as soon as we get our hand on it :S
@@MrQwertyman111 Tuesday is the usual release date for games, always has been (same with music albums). Unsure why.
@@MrQwertyman111
Tuesday release is standard though
@@TheRadishBros It's so they're immediately ready for feedback, and can patch any major day1 issues without extreme overtime.
@@MrQwertyman111 Rule #1 of software development is to never deploy nor release anything on a Friday, except if you want to do weekend overtimes ;)
Looks like he made a bit of an error. The arrow points to the commander's advantage bonus when he talks about knights.
Yup I was confused at first look. Another point to add, commander's advantage does not include terrain advantage/disadvantage. It would be good if that number was also added and a total advantage (except dice rolls) is given as a number in parenthesis.
im pretty sure he just read from the script, i would blame the editors, really.
All commanders are knights but not all knights are commanders.
I know, it's outrageous!! Shame! SHAME!!
NERDDDDDDDdaahhh
I’d play this game if I could at least see the battle
So much content lately. I feel like I've seen the whole game and it's not even out yet.
Still really want to actually PLAY the whole game.
"In the region of Tralee the terrain is wetlands" - Quite the understatement.
This is going to be a really long week.
This comment is speaking from my heart =/
Yesir
2:14 I kinda hoped that they would´ve updated that system.
pdx logic about anything that people complain about: "we need more of it"
the problem with paradox is the naming sense sometimes , if they hide the "dice rolls" with a different name and call it something like " decisions" and make it a scale of 6 decisions from 1- bad to 6 exelent while adding various level thx to traits ; they could hide the "dice rolls" with something that do the exatly same thing ...
when battle are not decided by numbers , they are decided by events \ on site decisions , this is easyer to make with a " random generator" that is a dice roll . there is no better way to do it , the only thing they can do is hide it behind something .
If you cant fight battles like in total war there is really no other way to decides these battles than through chance or constant repetitive events.
Welcome to HoI4, where every hour we roll 350 dice ranging from 2-200 for every side of every battle.
I don't why dice rolls get so much hate these days.
rip I absolutely loved the flank system in ck2 it was so unique and engaging
Wish they would've remade the siege warfare, sicne castles were extremely efficient with a low amount of people to man it. Most sieges were won by the backdoor being opened up, the gate being opened up, or starvation. The main reason was because castle were death-traps, which could be manned by only a few people against several hundred. Of course cannons changed this, but would've liked that it would be possible for a count to defend against an emperor if he had build up his castle :/ before cannons that is. Instead of just the generic "more men win"
Those three things are what happens when the siege progress is complete, the garrison become so demoralized they surrender and open the gates . Of course, you can assault the holding directly (there's a nice big button for it), but as you said, even some hundred garrisons could hold out against thousands in that case.
@@feryth My problem is that there isn't really a way for sieged castles to "win" it's just hold out, but the army that is sieging don't have all the logistical battles it would have had back in the day, food plays an important factor here, as well as disease etc. Instead you KNOW you will win the siege if you have more men.
Would've been cool if they made that system a bit more intricate, sure you might not want to go into it, but could give those who rather build tall than wide to really focus on something.
Edit: Hell, they could even put in ways you could sabotage the attackers, maybe make it a bit more intricate, giving something for people who're going to play this a lot, to really delve down into.
@@liva9994 I hope they add proper supply mechanics into the game, that pretty much fixes most of the proplems that CK has with battles/sieges/bordergore
There is a button to assault the fort. But it seems they went the way of EU4 and just made it irrelevant. Which is kind of annoying. They pushed toward making assault worse over time in CK2, to the point that by default it's impossible if they have 6 fort level.
But assaulting is I think what you mean. If they try to assault it the soldiers in the garrison could win against a superior force. But the default is instead to starve them out.
@@liva9994 I agree. Having some sort of mechanic to try to win a siege as a defender would be great, instead of it being only a waiting game to see how long the castle will take to fall unless you win a battle against that army. The way it is defending has no real advantage other than time, which is exactly the opposite of what it should be.
Well this is fantastic and congrats pix!
I can't wait for the video on naval combat and strait blocking. Sure they have improved over ck2.
Paradox: *Whistles Nervously*
Nice one. *Wink*
Wasn't naval combat mostly non-existent beyond burning ships at port during the time period Crusader Kings takes place in?
@@jerkchicken_expertlyseasoned No. Mankind still knew how to fight on boats.
@@jerkchicken_expertlyseasoned Venice used galleys in the middle ages to fight pirates all the time.
So, no more flanks?
While I can respect simplifying the combat to make it more accessible, a part of me is going to miss CK2's battle system
Learning about tactics, traits, sub-commanders, and all that jazz was a lot of fun to me (Though I doubt I'm the majority on that), and watching the magic of a perfectly crafted retinue with hand-picked commanders absolutely curb stomp a significantly larger enemy army was some of the most fun I had.
So while I appreciate the simplifying, and to some extent think it was the better option given how accessible it is, I'll forever miss CK2's super complex but also *very* rewarding combat.
Here's to hoping some modder will find a way to include the CK2 system into CK3, while incorporating the CK3 additions!
You are not in the minority. I will not be making the switch while to combat is like this. I really dislike the EU4 mechanics where you just rely on Dice rolls. This is worse than that. The combat was not too complex people think it is because the GUI and Tutorials are soo bad.
It was very obscure to most players, and it was very unbalanced for some cultures. Yes, the mongols should be OP but some cultures had no chance against their neighbors and the AI couldn't take advantage of it.
I also fear things getting too dumbed down. CK2 was just right, and these videos make it seem that CK3 went too far with simplifying things. Knights completely defined by a single number? Yikes! :(
I was already worried about this because they did the same going from HOI3 to HOI4, and these videos aren't reassuring me.
I'll postpone getting CK3 and watch some let's plays, and if I see the game doesn't have more complexity than what we see in these videos, I'll just stick to CK2 and skip completely on CK3
Not like there aren't any other games coming out this period. Baldur's Gate 3 looks to be amazing and their promo videos do get the blood pumping!
Sub-commanders sound good.. until you remember you can only have 9 commanders per empire (6 per kingdom, &c.) so there's no point using them unless the fate of an entire kingdom hinges on a single battle.
@@MeidoInHebun laughs in welsh
Forget about battles, levies and what not. The real question is when is the CK3 video on the in-game soundtrack coming out??
At least, we have our Original Soundtrack Album on Spotify and other streaming platforms at 00:00 CEST, between the 27th and 28th of August!
🎵
Sounds great but that army quality still sounds so wishy washy to me... what do 10 knights and 1000 men at arms do against 5k levies?
i expect the 1st to obliterate the levies at equal advantage
I would hope that 5000 troops win against 1000 troops in 99% of cases
@@armoredchimp what you expect 5000 ordinary people to be able to defeat 1000 highly trained and disciplined soldiers
@@armoredchimp 5000 peasants vs 1000 fully armoured and armed professional soldiers?
@@armoredchimp levies are litteraly peasants with zero training armed with farming tools and bows at best against cavalry, knights and other troops that are a lot more efficient, they would deffinitively win by morale damage at least
Great love dice rolls... Like in EU4 when i had a 6/6/6 Gen and rolled zeroes 24/7...
No skirmish/firing phase? Or can archers, horse archers, and skirmishers attack during maneuver?
Also, why doesn't the UI tell us which units are actually attacking which? Since the after battle screen knows how many kills each unit got, it can't just be random dice with no nuance, right?
because it looks like CK3 is being dumbed down :(
Looking at the ui, there seems to be room for two different icons within the main phase and it shows a bow icon on the left side of it, which to me would suggest that there is a skirmish/melee split within the main phase. It's strange that they didn't mention it in the video though.
Also they had no men at arms in this video. Otherwise that give diffrent modifers aswell since some men at arms counters others.
@@superhans85 not dumbed down, they've just changed what's important
@@superhans85 Can't dumb down what was already really dumb. Sure, CK2 had a complex battle system working behind the scenes, but there was very little you could do to play around with said system, and the small amount of changes you could do, barely made any difference from not doing it at all.
Compare that to EU4, which has a much simpler battle system on first glance, but has tons of stuff that can be manipulated by you to effect the outcome. In the end, the CK2 system is the dumbed down one, while the EU4 system in reality is the one with hidden complexity.
CK3 is leaning more towards the EU4 design, which is a good thing.
Crusader Kings 2 is my first love of the Paradox series. Do not disappoint your fans, you now have a huge responsibility.
What about army composition - troop types and their strengths and weaknesses?
there was one video where they went over man at arms, knights, even cavalry and other non levy units
They talked about that in the previous vid dude. The one about war.
Crusader Kings with Total War combat would be perfect.
Ralph Wiggam voice: "What's a battle?" 😉
I hope they implement this in a future third sequel that shall never be named.
I am halfway through the video, and I couldn't help but notice a VERY bad bug. If you go to 0:00 you'll notice that the animated text actually says Crusader Kings III, and not Victoria 3. Hoping you could fix that, thanks!
I love the new battle system and its a huge improvement over CK2, yet one thing I hated about CK2 remains: Battles (the main part, not counting the maneuvers before or after) rarely took more than a day, 2-3 at the most. The great Battle of Hastings lasted one full day. Crecy and Agincourt were also single day affairs. Bannockburn took 2. It always vexed me to no end to watch some of the larger battles in CK2 take weeks to finish, so long that troops from other counties had time to reinforce. I totally agree that the pre-battle skirmish and maneuver phase can entail a series of running engagements over many days, but the main battle itself should be over and done with in 2, 3 days tops.
No more center and flanks 😭
ikr, the just keep dumbing down the mechanics, expect there to be a paid "war" dlc in the future where they (hopefully) add a navy and actual battle mechanics.
yeah, no more tactics also.. i am dissappointed
Lmao as if coordinating centre or flanks actually mattered. You just click the auto-balance button and that's it. Don't pretend that mechanic was some super intuitive, meaningful and complex thing to have. I'm glad they removed that pointless bit of micromanagement.
@@castor9683 I enjoyed it actually. Just because you didn't don't assume others feel the same.
@@whodis3489 What are you talking about? Just from the streams alone you can tell that terrain matters a lot more and men at arms allow you to customize/specialize your armies more. It's a huge difference from ck2 where, aside from nomads, everyone's armies were the same and 99% of the time battles were won by whoever had the biggest one.
Please, release in the weekend, for the love of the god!
*Has gained Impatient trait*
Paradox ought to show us some mercy. Waiting until Tuesday is gonna be hell. :(
It's on the first of September. Unfortunately I think it's launching 6pm Swedish time.
Yeah... it would kinda make sense to release the game on a Firday so that people can play the damn thing. But who am I to know any better, right?
I don't understand how it always says I have a 1000+ troops under/next to my portrait, yet when I 'Raise All Armies' and click on guy that appears, there are maybe 20
How many people will one knight kill in a battle?
1:23 Is terrain effect the same across all units now? In CK2 some units do better attacking/defending on certain terrains. I really hope they didn't remove that just to simplify the combat
That's still a thing fortunately
all along i thought the prowess skill icon was a piece of paper or something like a tulip flower
Good to see river crossings being almost close to the medieval 2 level.
the inner crusader is ready!!!!!!
Love everything about the updated mechanics - EXCEPT THE DICE ROLLS.
Hopefully a modder will quickly be able to figure out how to get rid of them or make them ineffective. Definitely one of the top mods I would get.
Hearing PA hyped the hell outta me
So is it confirmed there is a Knighthood Mechanic for CK3? While i can understand your vassal lords being technically Knights themselves, i would love the option to promote good characters into Knighthood.
Could you wound your opponent like in the reaper due dlc?
How would defending in the wetlands give you an advantage? The Tooltip clearly says +25% Retreat Losses and +20% Friendly Fatal Casulties on BOTH sides...
Is this an error of the narration or an error in the tooltip?
Under Military Effects it has "Defender Advantage +5" listed. Not sure if that refers to the die roll or not, but the part you're referring to just means whoever loses is going to be hit harder than usual.
During a battle a little window telling me someone maimed my heir came up how do you pin that character for revenge later.
Nobody told alexander not to cross the river
And how do I make my allies attach to my army? Dlc?
>every 3 days the dice will roll
Are you kidding? The battle lasting 3 and more days is the most annoying detail in ck2
It's a game in which the minimum amount of time that can pass is one day. In order to give the opportunity for other armies to reinforce the battle and other things, of course the battle is going to have to last several days. There'd be no time for depth if battles were over the same day they started. The time scale is obviously less realistic, but the battles feel more involved and strategic as a result.
Wasted Viking
13 hours ago (edited)
Hey you guys should have made the combat modifiers visible when you hover over the region with the mouse. So we don't have to memorize
wow game looks like powerpoint presentation instead of a game
You simple dont understand it then
@@15RabauKe838 nothing to understand, the game look like Travian, and asking price is like for triple-a game classic paradox
Nice deus vult
I think what kinda frusturates me about splitting knights out from men at arms is it gives the impression that a knight would be more effective than professional heavy cavalry. Like the Romans should have that advantage of being able to recruit increasingly larger amounts of top tier heavy cav and just professional armies in general should.
I think Knights in this game are supposed to represent highly military minded people with powerful retuines, basically the Knights prowess is just a simplification of them commanding troops and leader Extra elite soldiers
Well, if you think about it "professional heavy cavalry" was usually composed of knights. You didn't have that many people with resources and training to be a professional soldier of a standing army since professional armies were not that common. I think by splitting them up you have a bigger connection with the knights, which were such a relevant part of medieval society, other than just a retinue you raise in times of war. It is not a perfect representation of reality, but then again, games never are.
Knights are top tier soldiers in the best equipment. (this would ofc include an armored horse, so he is like better heavy cavalry)
Men-at-arms are professional soldiers
Levies are Peasants
Knights (in the sense they're being used here) were far more effective than your average professional soldier was in combat for numerous reasons.
First, a professional cavalryman would train for combat a fraction of the time your average knight would. Knights would train daily from the age of 7 upwards on average. Once becoming a knight, they would spend much time in peace participating in tournaments, sparring, hunting, etc. Further, in the process of becoming a knight, they would be required to accompany knights during the process of becoming a knight into battle. This mix of constant training and first-hand experience was an incredibly effective system. The most elite forces of the modern era train for a few years after reaching adulthood at about the same pace as a knight would train their entire lives after early childhood.
Second, knights were far better equipped than a professional soldier in similar conditions. They were nobles who would direct vast fortunes towards not only having the best equipment, but having lots of it. Whereas a professional soldier would have an effective kit, a knight would be a walking armory, with many people (sometimes over a dozen) supporting a single knight by carrying arms, horses, etc, whatever the knight might need into battle.
It's estimated that knights were worth around 10 soldiers.
Great, but what about armies that didn't use heavy cav, like the Saxons?
drinks? check. instant noodles? check. oat? check. Redbulls? check.......okay. time to lock myself in the room for few weeks.
The knights will be BROKEN!
They were op in real life too
They were broken in real life too, they were literally almost unkillable
@@lucatolloi1125 yeah for 30 min until they fell asleep from exhaustion...but to be fair even then enemy soldiers had massive difficulties killing them while lying on the ground
We are the knights of Apollo?
I knew i know the voice
Is it like fighting a battle in civilisation 5 ?
hey I would get this game but if you make it where you can lead Battles it would be nice
Hay Paradox, what about Polish subtitles in game?
if only Paradox and Creative Assembly combines ^_^
So there's only one commander per army? The flanking system in CK2 battles actually made me pay attention to army composition, too bad they took it away.
Can we pre-load the game? I have a shit connection, that would be cool
There will be no pre-loading of the game. CK3 launches on Tuesday Sept. 1st at 6pm CEST.
@@ParadoxGrandStrategy :(
have there been battles that lasted as long as they do in Crusader Kings? Week-long battles seem a bit extreme
Well, if you just see the "battle" in CK3 as the very moment the armies clash into each other (which usually lasted only one day in most cases in medieval times) then yes. But I always thought the whole process of two armies finding out where the enemy is, kind of "dancing" until both sides commit to combat on a battleground, then this might have taken several days or even weeks. I think it would just not be fun in a game like CK3 if your army would vaporize in a literal second, because a day in CK3 is not that much time, and the whole military aspect of the game would feel random and frustrating. Like it was in real life =D
VICTORIA 3
any updates?
Never ever
@@Cruxador Don't be so cruel! I don't believe you!
NEVER
can i still create boats?
Good stuff!
If it was like rome total war battles I'd 100% play this game.
as much as i love this combat i wish it was a little more interactive, only aspect that still lacks in paradox titles. id even settle for somekind of dynamic visual of the battle playing out.
3:36 cumania
so no actual battles in this ?
Will the defender in a siege be able to sally forth and attack their besiegers preemptively?
So what about mangonels? Do they count as battlefield units or are they only used as objects to decrease siege time?
Cant wait...
Dev clash pleeeeaaaaaaaassssssse!!!!!
I wish this game was on win7
I want Total war Comes 2 Xbox damn
And this is why i wouldn't focus on levies except to use as meatshields. Even if expensive I will focus on building the best professional army that I can. Increasing levy size will help my meatshields.
Why no one has used the byzantine chads in their guides?
if you play the byzantines you’re an alpha
I'm so damned hyped for this game. CK2 has been amazing, hoping this will take the next step forward.
And I thought I was watching in Pixelated Apollo's channel
So its exactly the same as in CK2 only showed here as something new.
Bought the game on steam! Cant wait for Sept 2nd!!!
You mean the first
@@thetalesofdugganfights7209 might be a timezone thing
Mean Twitch in my country it’s the 2nd of sept haha
@@azeemabadi1918 that must suck
*cries in Australian*
so.... no 3d battles on the game so we can see??
6 days
My question is, will there be mutilations? Can my character end up in a battle: blind, lame, one-armed, like in CK2?
Yup
Yes they can, and it's reflected in your characters models too!
@@Krescentwolf ok, ok, now I want the game EVEN MORE
This is cool, ck2 had way too many hidden stats that i never really understood the combat outside of having more troops
Well, having more troops would always win the battles, no matter what. The system in ck2 was complex but never really made any difference in the battles, hell, even terrain could be ignored most times if you had a larger army than your enemy
Can a character be made immortal?
As in CK2?
An Angel they said that they have a special built In immortality tag, but aren’t using it, so a mod can easily hook up some events to it
@@ckkitty means only mods can add immortality?
@@an_angel or DLC....
they probably cut it so they can sell it later
I am still happy being a "Knight of Apollo" since his Total War WWI mods
Give me this game now!!
I wish it could be like total war or at least let me see the battlefield. :'(
Why can’t I play this in Australia? Does Australia deserve to be wiped off the map for not allowing us to play? Yes, the answer is yes.
Religion, oh boy, finally
So it s just ck 2?
Eh, they removed the flanks and added the knights. We still have dice rolls but now terrain bonuses seem to be more important, as in ck 2 you would almost always ignore them if you had a larger army
now even crusader kings dice roll!!!!!!
Wish they didnt add dice rolls, but at least its less impactfull now
There's always dice rolls in paradox fights. It's kind of accurate I think, as a skilled commander isn't always going to beat a lower skilled one, luck plays a part. There's always unpredictably.
I think dice rolls are better. Since it might tip the balance abit if the opponent has a slight numbers advantage. Which is more interesting than always winning if you have 100+ more troops.
Even real life has its equivalent of dice rolls. Otherwise the US would never lose a fight or fail a mission.
What is the purpose of the Maneuver phase?
could be just a timer so the battle doesn't immediately start like in CK2. This would let sides more time to bring in reinforcements and prevent those annoying "2k men immediately make a 100 dudes disappear in a single tick" moments
so there is no actual battle sad
Can't wait to start modding CK3
It’s the same fucking game, their selling us the same game.
Mentions river crossing, but not mountains smh
This video doesn't really do the new combat system justice, I'm not surprised people thought it looked dumbed down. Should've gone into further detail about the different men-at-arms and their counters/terrain advantages.
Do you know if there are still duels in battle or in the game period? No one is talking about duels which was my favorite in the game especially during battles or the crazy effects the berserker trait had on battle. No CZcams are highlighting these features