The Gracie Jiu-Jitsu System Shouldn't Be Mixed with MMA! The Problems With MMA and BJJ! - Kama Vlog
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- čas přidán 12. 12. 2019
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Why is this blank?! - Sport
No disrespect, but the reason I have trouble with this idea is that many MMA athletes are well rounded, and manage to integrate Jiu Jitsu and striking arts. Brian Ortega might be better at BJJ than boxing, but the fact that he can do both doesn't mean he gets confused by distance management. At the gym I'm at we train Ruas Vale Tudo along with Moreira style BJJ and a key role for our striking is often to create openings for clinching and throws. If I end up in a fight with a guy who is better at boxing than me, I'd rather know a little boxing than none - even if my main goal is to take the guy down and pin him.
Ortega was “confused” against Max. Max’s boxing was on another level. Ortega should’ve just tried to play the GJJ game Rener trained him to do once he realized Max’s boxing was superior and see how his GJJ compared to Max’s GJJ.
@@KamaJiuJitsu Holloway is a Pedro Sauer black belt wouldn't have been much better than Kron vs Cub if he did try to take it to the ground
@@KamaJiuJitsu You can pick on Ortega for the Holloway loss but the guy is 14 - 1 in MMA and 3 of his UFC wins came from skillfully employed striking techniques. He's better at GJJ than striking, but he has beaten some of his highest level opponents (including Edgar) by striking. In fact the UFC hasn't had many 1 dimensional specialists since the early days - almost everyone fighting at that level is an elite level grappler or striker who has at least basic proficiency in the other discipline. You could argue that the average person is better off spending their time focusing on one thing, but the formula for becoming the best fighter probably isn't pure GJJ if the results of MMA competitions are to be believed.
Y’all get butthurt... Ortega’s boxing is legit, it’s just not on Max’s level, is all. All I said, was that to continue trying to box with the superior boxer was not the optimal gameplay. Who knows, maybe Ortega’s GJJ is light years ahead of Max’s.
But we never found out whether it is or isn’t.
Back to my original premise in the video...
@@KamaJiuJitsu Ortega tried to take him down but Holloways over all game (Wrestling take down defense & striking IQ) prevented that.
oh yeah thats why Kron destroyed Cub Swanson with those failed guard pulls, too bad it was in mma that wouldve ended Cub on the street in a self defense situation, its all love i train both sides, so, yeah but no
Maybe if he smoked dmt it would've bin a different story
Or learnt some basic wrestling
@@robertlopez1172 learned*
Cub didn't ko or submit though...Kron was still standing
@@MoooseBlood thx
While I disagree with some of the opinions here, I think there is a key piece that Ryan is alluding to, which is that of a *foundational* art. Having a foundational system can inform the other arts that you add on top of it. Training various martial arts simultaneously without building a foundation in any single art can lead to the problems Ryan describes. However, not exploring the other arts and what they can add to your understanding is missing one of the biggest opportunities to grow as a martial artist!
Ben Balaran yeh people miss that Bruce lee started being sick a sticking hands THEN generalised.
@@cameronmiller6240 Correct. And his first JKD students came to him already experts in one art or another
yep. for instance, Inosanto was already an escrima expert.
Ah yes this makes sense. I was trying to connect what he said in the video to what I heard about Rolls adding key lock (americano) to GJJ.
That sounds like a traditional martial arts mindset.
These martial arts are made from a discipline or a system or a philosophy. U cant just add something to it cos its good or better bcos it would break the system apart. Hes not saying that u cant add better moves, for example a striking moves or a side muay thai kick. Hes saying ur those moves shouldnt break the whole system or philosophy of the entire arts.
That is one of the reason why GJJ is considered the best martial art in 70s to 90s. They evolve from Judo in case u forgot and they kept evolving, adding more and more materials to GJJ.
So now what happened is this system becomes so huge that if u change 1 thing, the whole discipline might fall apart. Unlike in the early days, when they have smaller materials and were still figuring it out.
To put it simply, try it for urself, take any kind of martial arts that u want, get the black belt, then try to perfect it, then ure gonna find it so hard to just add something to it without breaking the system apart.
If ure a fan of racing, take F1 for example, adding moves to the art its like how ure gonna make a better car for F1. Yes u can put bigger engine for example, but then u still gonna think does that bigger engine since its heavier, gonna make ur car faster or actually slower. So yea its not that easy.
True I did karate now Gracie bjj I hear the same thing in the bjj community that I heard in karate you have to mix it up period
"When you know the way broadly, you see it in all things" - Musashi.
It's all about your deliberation and mindset. Just as a boxer can understand distance too, they can understand just as well if not better even. Just because they don't say, green zone red zone green zone? They understand striking range very well. Just as a BJJ can have good takedowns and win a street fight. At least when I learn something, say 2+2=4, I don't just learn 2+2=4, I learn addition.
Yep
In boxing practice I like to fight in the outside and whenever a guy who is a stronger puncher than me gets closer than I'm comfortable with I clinch him.
That's better GJJ standing self defense training than any Jiu-Jitsu gyms I can think of.
that was Carlson, Sr's philosophy, IIRC.
@@KamaJiuJitsu what does IIRC stand for?
@@cesaralvesdemoraes3187 It stands for "if I recall correctly".
So here is my question to counter your point. When did Gracie Bjj stop evolving? The Gracie Survival Tactics is an improved version of the handgun and knife defense that Helio taught. Does this mean that is not Gracie Jiu-Jitsu? Rolls Gracie did Greco and used it in his Jiu-Jitsu does that mean he is doing a lesser form of Jiu-Jitsu? The evolution of the Art is constantly adding to it and getting rid of what is useless. By this logic anyone who played an offensive half guard is not doing Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
nyc king so when did BJJ stop evolving? After the Helio Gracie? If so then Gjj is doomed to the same destiny as other traditional marital arts. We either adapt or die. Also I’m a BJJ purist but I believe BJJ has a greater range of takedowns, passes, leg locks, and weapon retention skills that other arts. However this is only if we evolve.
nyc king - msg me at KamaJiuJitsu@gmail.com
I have a question for you. ~ Ryan
Ryan on this I don't agree with you, but I love that you are interacting in the conversation, debating, and defending your position respectfully. You are really a class act and have a great online presence for spreading GJJ
This is important, I have a big problem of being a jack of all trades and a master of none, I don't necessarily wanna be a master tho, I like variety. It's who I am, but for now I stick with bjj (with a little gracie) and muay thai. I feel like that's pretty much all I need for now.
But to be "competent at everything" that's all I dream of. I don't care about being the best because there's always more learn then 😅
Love your videos. I train to get better. Luckily with all the styles of Jujitsu and martial arts. I can pick and choose whats best for me and videos like this help guide me in a direction and minimizes my "learning the hard way" moments.
Finally, I realized I entered the Kataaro contest and didn't even subscribe to your channel (fixed). Keep up with amazing insight and videos. Looking forward to the next one.
I like your videos and learn a lot from you. I’m a Self-defense instructor with 27 years of experience in multiple systems. My personal opinion is I’d rather be a jack of all trades so that when I come across a one dimensional fighter I can switch to one of the other tools that I have. I consider myself an expert in Self Defense.
interesting perspective..i think this applies to self defense and not MMA. In MMA everyone is training everything. On the street no one is training everything. So I totally agree with you. For a street self defense situation it is probably better to be a jack of all trades so that you can switch it up....but self defense situations happen so fast so its difficult to adjust properly.
Jack of all trades, master of one
Very good explanation. Thanks Ryan.
Sounds very similar a cult to me. Almost like the Kung Fu masters that say stay with our one style exclusively because it is the only way and after 70 years you will unlock the true full understanding of our chi......
Absolutely. It's crazy how some people can't see that.
I think what hes saying is that u cant just add something cos its good/better and break all the system going from the top down. Like if boxing is better standing up and u change the way JJ fight standing up, that means u gonna have to change other things as well and the whole system and the base would fall apart.
So what he meant is that if ure gonna fight with a system in this case JJ, u can still use a muay thai kick or boxing, but these different arts must only help u to get ur opponents to the fight that u want, which is JJ kind of fight and not break the entire system.
My impression is that the basic message is good - that BJJ fighters shouldn't try to be kickboxers but work to their strengths. Like Demian Maia did early in his career - the infamous "K1 Maia"...he was much better off doing his BJJ like he did early and then late in his career. I do think that cross training is important for MMA though - you can still play to your strengths even though you train and know how to counter others'
Good evening everybody from Spain
I thank you very much Kama Ju Jitsu for the points of view exposed about the matter, on focus the training on a well structured system. And Gracie Ju Jitsu it's one of them.
Well I'm a japanese Ju Jitsu teacher in my country and I research and try to learn as much as I can, listening to the others.
When I say I'm japanese Ju Jitsu teacher. I don't mean old school Samurai JûJutsu. In my country is quite difficult to find a Master of it and even though, the techniques are very difficult and on another historical context.
I learnt the Kawaishi's method.
I'm sure you all know the japanese Judo Ju Jitsu pioneer in France: Mikinosuke Kawaishi .
Ibegan with my dad and then at a Dojo, I practiced this Judo Ju Jitsu Self Defense method. Also years after in Belgium, where I lived six years. I continued practising this method with my late Sensei.
And after years and years I became teacher: my passion.
Well Gracie Ju Jitsu it's a compleet Martial Art and a legitimated Ju Jitsu Method.
As Sensei Kama explains, in Ju Jitsu in this case. In Gracie Ju Jitsu, the practicioners have everything they need and it isn't necessary adding other disciplines.
Why? At first for respect and objectivity to the Art of Gracie Ju Jitsu. Second for respect to the other Arts.
Since 2005, I'm member of the Japanese organization, Dai Nippon Butoku Kai from Kyoto.
Well when Master Jigoro Kano found his Kano Ryu JûJutsu, then Kodokan Judo.
He encountered a lot of problems with the old traditions. He was an educationalist and confronted the japanese ultranationalism and a lot of problems, willing opening JûJutsu to everyone even women; he fought very hard for the right of all of them to freely practiced his Judo.
But being a wise man, he supported all the old JûJutsu Masters and between them he met: Mataemon Tanabe, last inheritor of Fusen Ryu JûJutsu. The best school on Ne Waza of all Japan.
Master Tanabe never was officialy engaged as s Kodokan Teacher but at the request of Master Kano. He taught ground fighting at his Kodokan to all judokas and he already was one of the JûJutsu Masters from the old Dai Nippon Butoku Kai.
Well when Master Mitsuyo Maeda entered the Kodokan, after studying Tenjin Shin'yo Ryu JûJutsu for a while. He already knew a lot about Ne Waza or ground fighting as Master Kano did during the years he practiced and became certified Teacher of this school.
But Fusen Ryu was much better on ground fighting than this school and others.
Unfortunately the Kodokan only mentions Kito Ryu and Tenjin Shin'yo Ryu Jûjutsu schools as the most representatives on the foundation of Judo, together with Yoshin Ryu, Seigo Ryu and Sekiguchi Ryu.
Mitsuyo Maeda was an expert on old Kodokan Judo wich was another JûJutsu school in the beginning an so he had the technical knowledge of Fusen Ryu and the other schools of JûJutsu too.
When he taught Master Carlos Gracie he transmitted him this tradition and when Master Helio Gracie researched during the time he might no practice for his health problems.
Gracie Ju Jitsu became inheritor of old Kodokan Judo and so of Fusen Ryu, Kito Ryu and Tenjin Shin'yo Ryu schools.
Gracie Ju Jitsu is an art in itself and the best of it. It's that as the other arts and methods. A compleet syllabus standing and on the ground has. And also a compleet method of Self Defense or Goshinjutsu.
Kosen Judo it's only present at Universities im Japan and quite difficult to see out of this field.
And all of it, comes from Fusen Ryu too.
Master Tanabe became Teacher at the Dai Nippon Butoku Kai and together with Nagaoka, Hajime and other Kodokan Judo Masters. Founded the Kosen Judo or Dai Nippon Butoku Kai Judo.
Nowadays it's difficult finding this Judo style even at DNBK.
I'm a retired police officer since 1994 after an accident on the line of duty.
But when I was bealthy and young.
When I had streets confrontationd arresting violent offenders. I always restraint them on the ground. And I'm thin and not a big one.
Sometimes we hear the point of...... and fighting against more than an assaillant: well... that happens in the movies and being lucky. If you control one ofender, maybe one can protect oneself against anothet but it's very difficult.
Old JûJutsu was focused against one enemy unarmed or armed, the media makes ilusion and fantasy but the back alleys, teach everyone what street fight is and I finished more than one time at the hospital being a policeman.
We all are brothers in Ju Jitsu and who knows, maybe one they I can meet the Gracie and Kama family and learn a lot of them but with my white belt on
Because the beauty of the Martisl Arts it's: "be humble, honest and keep on learning". As my father, my first Ju Jitsu and Judo teacher, always taught me.
Fond regards everybody, keep safe and healthy with all yours.
Daniel.
5th degree Nihon JûJutsu Goshinjutsu.
5th degree Taiho Jutsu
2nd degree Judo.
3th degree Tomiki Aikido.
I like this video. I see both sides of the argument of cross vs. non cross training. I think with a purer system it gives you more of a cleaner path forward that you can drill and drill and get better at. Twenty years ago when I first saw GJJ (Carlson lineage) in Vermont they were doing the classic square off with a boxer, dodge hands and rush in and get a seatbelt clinch around the waist, take them down and get side control. Very classic GJJ stuff but something you can always work on more and more to bring up your street defense skills.
Thank you again Professor for your insight and explanation. I 100% agree. Though I have one question regarding weapons defense. It's a general question as I have no experience in Gracie weapons defense; Throughout the years has weapons defense in GJJ advanced throughout the years since its early development (i.e. new applications, approach to different weapons)?
100% agree. It’s like shiny ball syndrome. You can have the knowledge of every art but you don’t have the skill to perfect them all unless you’ve been studying them all for YEARS. You can learn them all but you’ll lose to someone who focuses only on a certain aspect and holds you to that certain aspect. “I’m not afraid of the man who practices 10,000 different kicks but rather the man who practices a kick 10,000 times”. Or whatever that saying is haha
Hey Ryan,
Thanks for the videos. One question for you. Do you start new students with the first techniques according to your linear curriculum? If so, do the other students practices the same?
I agree
My coach always tells me to stick to the fundamentals of the gracies before I begin trying everything else there is to the art
I want to be good at jiujitsu not mediocre in multiple arts
For MMA being good in a number of (practical) arts is better than being an expert in any one style. The days of an expert in only one style successfully competing in MMA are long gone.
What about in a fight with no rules and no ref/judges?
So which system did Sakuraba use to destroy the Gracies with?
I love your channel, I’m just being a troll!
Chainsmoking system
What will happen when there will be no more Rickson to improve and update your jiu jitsu? Are you going to turn into aikido?
Aikido effective techniques are already on Gracie Jiu-jitsu. Wrist locks are used for self-defense when the attacker is distracted and you get him off guard and when you have position and decides to apply pain compliance.
nyc king are you trolling
Js either that or deluded.
What you said.
Let an Aikido black belt get control of your wrist and you will dance for him like a puppet.
I think being clear about the purpose of the system helps reinforce why you don't pick pieces haphazardly from various martial arts without first thinking about whether they're truly applicable techniques.
From what I can tell (and correct me if I'm wrong), the purpose of GJJ is largely self-defense which is very different to competition fighting arts, the purpose of which is to win one-vs.-one fights for entertainment. If the system is any good it would mean that every part of the system would be devised with _it's_ ultimate purpose in mind. For GJJ, this means every part has defense of self in mind and for competition fighting arts, every part has winning the fight (in compliance with competition rules) in mind.
If you haphazardly select pieces of one system and put them in another it would mean you're accidentally mixing/matching purpose and not just techniques. That might mean you've knocked out some drunk dude onto the curb instead of simply controlling his balance and then talking him down or you're maintaining too much distance in a competition when you should be getting in a few more shots.
What do you think about schools that do not do warm up drills and stretching before teaching new techniques?
But if u find a better way or technique from a technical aspect u can make it your own and adjust it to compliment your system and make it flow like your system
Great argument against haphazardly mixing. But, the classic GJJ was made at a time when martial knowledge was not so easily accessed as they are today. If they did have access to everything at the time GJJ was being created, it may have turned out much differently.
Are you saying that Brazil was so primitive they didn’t have other martial arts?
@@KamaJiuJitsu No. When it was started, you were mostly stuck with the best local practitioners vs access to
seeing the best in world in every discipline. Even in the last 25years, I've seen a HUGE increase
in the average local skill level and access to info. GJJ's live training vs grappling is SUPER, but they spend little time and near zero live training vs strikes at most places.
I think GJJ would have evolved differently and better if it had been developed with today's access to info.
Listening to you speak and it made me think of the Confucius quote:
"The hunter who chases two rabbits, catches neither."
He is 100% right. People are disagreeing because they most likely have not practiced Gracie Jiu-Jitsu as a complete system. If you learn the system in it's entirety you won't feel such a need to learn other styles.
I actually love the Gracie fan boy/Rickson nut hugging, because for the most part I agree with Ryan, but this is the one that lost my attention. To in effect say the evolution is complete is a bit foolish, so I hope I'm just not understanding his intentions with this video. If there is a better weapons self defense, or stand up the answer shouldn't be don't use it because it's not part of the Gracie system, it should be how do we improve the Gracie system to incorporate these new elements. Rolles was known for going outside of the Gracie system to make it better, and he was the mentor of Rickson who also then added Yoga and Gynastica to his training. No system should ever be complete.
I get where you're coming from but I think this viewpoint needs to be re-worked a bit. So many Gracies have stepped into the (MMA) ring saying they are doing Gracie Jiu Jitsu and they want to show that their system is the best. Now you're saying it isn't GJJ if you mix in boxing, wrestling etc. and that you can't combine GJJ with MMA? perhaps what you mean to say is be careful of combining them for self defence; and be careful what habits you develop? Peace and love
What about someone who spends years developing these arts and also combines them? Maybe a few years of BJJ then a few years of karate while maintaining BJJ etc. A George's St. Pierre type person who is both well rounded and skilled in many areas.
Knowing yourself and discerning your opponents skills is part of the tactics of the battle.
I think you have a point and not simultaneously.
Yes we want to take the fight to where we are strong and where the opponent is weak. I think its a mistake to limit yourself to learning from other arts.
I think that adding to your game will make one better.
I think the generalist specialist conversation is really interesting. A generalist might be able to take a specialist out of their game and drown them. We see it in mma all the time. The times when Damien Maia cannot get the takedown, Kron, etc.
I think maybe the ideal is to be an expert in many fields and transcend styles but how!?
If we all have the same amount of time in a day. What can get people to this level?
kinda depressing..i did karate for three years before starting gjj and developed a genuine love for judo and boxing..after 5 years of gjj and getting to practice judo/boxing intermittently, i hear its not a good thing...i dont plan on cage fighting anytime soon..i just love training
I think you're fine man. Box/karate when you are on your feet. Judo when you get into a clinch, and jiu-jitsu when you hit the ground. I don't think anything you've learned is incompatible.
I studied Aikido and Hapkido before training in BJJ. If I ever have to get into a fight I will start by using side/front kicks. When/if that doesn't work, it's the clinch/takedown and jiu-jitsu. And yes, I train BJJ, not GJJ, but I will be just fine. And no, I will not use Aikido for anything. :)~
I think I understand what you mean. I dont think you mean only doing just BJJ or GJJ, but as a BJJ practitioner you should try favour your style to the one you're best at. So develop your GJJ to well, as well as other aspects like boxing and muaythai and wrestling etc, but dont implement them in a way that puts a deficit to your strength. So have great boxing, but if your fundamentally a grapple, stay at the range and stance of a grappler but be ready for the use of boxing, etc. Right?
That’s pretty much it!
It's an interesting perspective. I don't know if I completely agree, but you make some good points. There are obviously going to be a lot of naysayers. People are brainwashed and don't like to hear other opinions that go against the common consensus. MMA, even as much as it has evolved, still really comes down to forcing your opponent to fight your game. There has to be a system put together to make that happen. Using a boxing game-plan against a guy with a boxing background when your strength is wrestling is just asking to get knocked out. If you are a kickboxer facing a jiu-jitsu guy you don't start off the match shooting in and taking your down your opponent.
Really? Rolles was a combination of many things. Also, How is Kron doing in MMA? If you don't adapt in today's scene, you'll be left behind.
People don’t start GJJ to serve GJJ. They start GJJ to get good at fighting. You can’t expect them not to learn other things, especially when GJJ is weak at striking, weak at getting the fight to the ground against a trained person, weak at holding a trained person down once you get him there, etc. For people that want one self-contained self defense system and aren’t interested in MMA GJJ is a great option. Otherwise, a lot of people will learn GJJ and integrate it with other stuff.
Not weak at controlling on the ground lol one of the biggest part wrestling is weak at finishing a fight with no submissions that’s why gjj and Sambo and judo exist
This is apples and oranges. Even Royce Gracie says that in the 21st century MMA is who is the best athlete and well rounded fighter. GJJ as a self defense/martial art is great. Not BJJ but the original Jiu-Jitsu which does stand up and ground work and defense against strikes and basic real life potentiality (head lock, choke, etc.) As for MMA , Rickson is delusional and you can tell him I said that. He fought pro wrestlers and 1 Pankration legend way past his prime who had limited striking skills (Funaki) and even then the Gracies have all these rules implemented even tho they pride themselves on ''no rules''. That said, if a person thinks they don't need to learn multiple disciples to excel in high level MMA they again are naive. Brock Lesnar is an example. As is some of the BJJ or Wrestlers or mostly kick boxers. You can't defend strikes you will get ko's sooner or later. You can't strike you get exposed. Limited wrestling ability you will be controlled. You don't know submissions you will be tapped. You have no cardio you will be exposed. You're not ''tough'' the cage will expose you. Also, there is no gi in modern MMA. That makes Judo and Jiu-Jitsu guys struggle because they can't pull guard and hold guys gi's, or use it standing up for throws and sweeps,etc. Again I love GJJ but MMA fighters have to be well trained in all facets and have a high level of physical fitness or they won't excel at the highest level. Ralph Gracie? Ko'd in seconds to Tie Gomi. Same with his cousin in California to Frank Shamrock.
I know it's an old thread. Modern mma now is about who is the better athlete. Not so much about what style is best any longer. You can train anyway you want, be a jack of all trades, a king of one or none and it's all about implementing your GAME over your opponent. It's gotten to the point where even mma fighting is different than how a lay person would fight In a street fight. An actual mma fighter will be conditioned/trained enough to figure it out in a street fight but a regular person dabbling in mostly sport bjj, took a couple of shadowing boxing classes could be in for a rude awakening when he gets punched in the face when goes into inverted guard. GJJ is still the best art to learn if you can train only one martial art and just a regular person wanting to know high probability self defense with no aspiration with becoming a mma fighter.
I've been in a lot of fights since I was child until my teen years and most of them ended with 1-2 strikes to a vital area such as the solar plexus. I'm not as comfortable with ground fighting in a self defense situation seeing my attacker could have a weapon, the terrain may not be suitable for going to the ground and the attacker may have a friend or maybe just some stranger decides to step in and help the guy I'm choking out on the ground by kicking me in the head. With that said there are lots of scenarios where it could come in handy to know some ground fighting. That's why I learned various rangers to fight at, but most of the fights I won was with strikes as I said before and maybe a throw to help soften up the target for a good strike.
It’s become a misconception that Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is a “ground fighting” art. BJJ is. GJJ is much more comprehensive than simply ground fighting.
Airborne! So awesome!
GJJ is a system that is stuck in the 90s. Having said that, it was proven to work against larger, strong, more aggressive opponents. For self defense, against 99.9% of the population, it's the best. It's not as good as some 10th planet crazy legs stuff in bjj vs. bjj. Gjj will not win sport competitions for you. It will let a 170 lbs Royce beat big strong street fighters with limited knowledge.
You're right, but GJJ will never save your ass against people like Yoel Romero, Jones, Khabib or Woodley
people like those named above don't pick fights like street punks.
Do you count Renzo's guys as practicing Gracie Jiu-jitsu?
I haven't scene much about Renzo here
This is a very interesting discussion, I would love to hear more on this subject. From what I remember though, Gracie Jiu-Jitsu was very successful in defeating other individual styles, but once fighters started "mixing" their martial arts, they were even more effective and ended up beating the Gracies. Royce vs Hughes comes to mind as a prime example.
Are there examples of where a more pure Gracie Jiu-Jitsu style was beneficial compared to a more "mixed" approach (Muay Thai for striking, Wrestling for takedowns, BJJ for ground techniques etc.)? Also, I wonder how the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu system's approach to striking, takedowns etc. looks like and how it differentiates from what's done in MMA. Do you teach those things in your online training? (I couldn't check because the site just was in maintenance)
Luta Livre was the first “mixed” martial art.
Also, the rules set is what determines what type of fighter ultimately wins.
Love your videos.. I'm 62 & in Great Shape Great....Yoga Boxing Karate Gymnastics Stretching Jogging Long distance Cali.... Ect.. Been training since I was 10 thats 52 years trining... AM I TOO OLD FOR BJJ ?
Nah, you’re good. Try it out!
The Gracie system is all about minimising the risk of harm you may encounter in a self defence situation, not winning a fight or entertaining an audience.
The Gracie strategy of staying out of punching range and securing a dominant position makes perfect sense when you put it in a self defence context.
You are most vulnerable to getting KO when you are throwing a punch, because your guard is down, you are in punching range and the hand is quicker than the eye. Unless you are highly skilled as a boxer or kickboxer it’s best to avoid punching range as much as possible.
There is no evidence to support the view that any other system can be so effective for a smaller person to minimise harm to themselves against a larger person!
specialized styles are allways good in their Domain. period. BJJ is a grappling style...as soon as I put on my grips on my oponent I am in my element. it does not Need to be the Ground as Long as I get my Position on the guy I got what I Need.
Mixing mma Training in is ok in my opinion
Not all Gracie's thought this way. Carlson Sr believed in cross training. Eg Carlson Jr has Greco Roman wrestling background and his MMA proteges like Vitor learned boxing
His Carlson, Sr teammates who weren’t as good at boxing were more successful.
I think if what he's saying is true then wouldn't a lot of mma fighters be bad fighters? Don't they all practice a mix of styles on certain days and it works for them? Did he interview some mma fighters before making this video to see how they train?
No one said anyone was a “bad” fighter.
Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is a “system.”
Take a part here and a part there, mix it with this and that, and you no longer have Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, is all.
What is the name of your friend/ name of his school that teaches Escrima?
Ill take Bruce Lee's advice. Train it all.
Phantom-Gaming yup. He also said that a person training wrestling and boxing for an year would beat a life long martial artist
@@imawarrior313 Yeah there is no perfect system including jujitsu
Phantom-Gaming because every single solution system has flaws so i guess a jack of all trades is a good thing to be in Martial arts!
Nobody likes a one trick pony
Learning it all really helped Bruce Lee with Gene Lebell...
Chuck Liddell was an ALL American Wrestler at Cal Poly, he employed wrestling to get off the mat, defend takedowns,dictate distance at an expert level. Your analysis of how he operated is kind of skewed , just because he isnt shooting constantly doesn't mean isn't wrestling. 90% wrestling happens on the feet.
All American at Cal Poly... 🤔
He was FAR better at the strike game than he ever was at the wrestling game.
His MMA “game” was as a striker. The only wrestling he did was to prevent the takedown.
Just like how Randy’s Jiu-Jitsu was to prevent getting subbed in guard and half guard.
Shout out to the fact that 95 percent of the viewers won’t know what “dirty lickens” means
😂 I realized that when I watched the preview. Figured, “ah, hell wit it.”
What is that
The truth is that Gracie jiu jitsu is an evolution of other grappling arts, and BJJ is an evolution of the latter as is MMA. If The Gracie’s wanted to keep their art traditional, they never should have come to America, and the world would never know about Gracie jiu jitsu, but America is where the opportunities were to grow and evolve the art and ultimately make money.
MMA is to BJJ,
while Vale Tudo is to GJJ.
Vale Tudo has always been part of GJJ back to when Carlson, Sr first fought Santana.
@@KamaJiuJitsu that makes tons of sense that way
Unless you have franchised gracie juijitsu just like Rorion gracie he franchised gracie juijitsu making gracie university?
Wrong that GM Rorion has anything to do with GU (it is owned exclusively by his sons Ryron and Rener).
We aren’t a “franchised” Gracie school.
Being a bjj specialist is all well and good, until you run into a wrestler that can keep the fight standing and beat you on the feet.
Beat you on the feet with what?
@@KamaJiuJitsu if you never train a striking art, even a wrestler with a very modest experience in striking can beat you on the feet.
🤔
Kama Jiu-Jitsu I saw a 5 point throw or superior clinch positioning both have a significant chance to beat a bjj guy off that alone
Ah, you’re specifying “BJJ.”
I’m not talking about BJJ. “GJJ” is different.
Trained at a royce GJJ school which taught the complete system. They also had muy thai and judo. The instructor was a 3rd degree BB under royce was a boxer and a 4th degree black belt in judo. He ALWAYS encouraged people to cross train. Royce himself encouraged it. People like me took his advice. Let me tell you when it came time to fight simulate the people who cross trained even a LITTLE muy thai. Could throw a jab, cross and a hook that didn't look like complete garbage.(GJJ striking is laughable) those competitors were able to throw the guys who only trained jiu jitsu off their game. The saying goes "everyone's got a plan until they get hit". This is coming from a guy who loves GJJ and wants to preserve it as his roots but understands it isn't perfect.
Royce wasn’t the family’s best fighter. 🤷♂️
@@KamaJiuJitsu while I agree with you. Rickson doesn't know how to punch either
James Toney knows how to punch better than 99.999% of the billions on Earth and yet, couldn’t land a single punch on a wrestler?
@@KamaJiuJitsu by saying that you're only proving my point that cross training is necessary. He should have learned at least the basics of wrestling. Fact is strikers know how to manage the distance and angles on the feet better than any grappler. Seen it many times with my own two eyes. Even if the goal is to clinch and go to the ground having even a basic understanding of striking ranges/angles as well as having a basic offense and defense yourself put you head and shoulders above GJJ only. You will be at an advantage. The days of jiu jitsu only practitioners coming out to fight with their hands low are gone. Thanks to the Gracie's the world has learned what real world fighting is what works and what doesn't work. Even john danaher right now is developing takedown systems because he knows this is a weakness of jiu jitsu. (And yes I mean Gracie jiu jitsu too. GJJ takedowns do not work against anyone whose cross trained in either judo or wrestling). Jiu jitsu used to have a leglock weakness it has now become one of its strengths. Do I like how the sport of BJJ has removed itself from the self defense roots of the art? No but things like the revolution of legs locks can be integrated into the GJJ system to make it even more effective. You have to be willing to evolve and learn from methods that are proven to work. Or be left in the passed. I love rickson and his values towards the martial arts but even he doesn't know everything. It's people that think GJJ is the be all end all of fighting are the ones that make themselves look like egotistical pricks.
Your first sentence says James Toney might have needed to cross train.
But Randy Couture didn’t, did he?
Knowing some stuff is certainly useful, but at the end of the day, those who excel in the throwing/grappling arts are likely to take out the striker.
Even the striker who dabbles in grappling.
This is interesting. Isn't Rickson's Jiu-jitsu different now to what it was in the 80's? I get the intention so I am sure it's not as one-dimensional as most people are thinking.
it is in many ways, but in many ways, it's not any different. a lot of the changes he's made are significant "refinements," but they are refinements, nonetheless, and not wholesale "changes."
don't get me wrong, the refinements are truly significant, but i wouldn't call it "different" from what he used to do when i was with him in the 90s. the stuff Master Dave brings to his students after meeting with GM Rickson (several times this year alone) are almost always "adjustments."
@@KamaJiuJitsu Thank you for replying. That makes perfect sense.
What is his name ? The knife master ?
If you are interested in knife defense, I think you would be good to find any reputable gym that teaches escrima because that is basically what escrima is.
All knife defenses suk, some more than others.
I came to GJJ after training in a mixed comprehensive self defense curriculum called Fit To Fight. The mindset there was totally different, but one of the concepts taught that stuck with me was a good grappler uses stand-up/striking to set up grappling, a strong stand-up/striker uses grappling to setup stand-up/striking.
Training to fight MMA in a cage is it's own thing. Training *only* in one MA, ground or standing, will not win championships there.
I do think that if someone is training GJJ that it should be their main focus and trying to mix something else in at the same time is counter productive. At least until they have achieved whatever their goal is for GJJ.
GJJ has always had strikes to set up the clinch.
Mediocre is better than the majority of the untrained population and "typically" guys that train tend to avoid fights to begin with, now add size and strength into someone that trains everything, now that opens a whole new can of worms. Alot of the points you were making in this video seemed more towards a competition stand point I believe.. I Love your stuff but this one kinda came off as GJJ propaganda-ish a bit.. I like Bruce Lee's way of thinking when it comes to stuff like this.. Oss
I can understand the point with strikes to a point. But when it comes to weapons, you don't get a second chance. If your methods are not pressure tested properly, you are going to be killed. Even those who train properly have a hard time. I agree with him in principle though. You should master something rather than just be a jack of all trades and master of none.
Even Bruce Lee was master level in Wing chun i believe. He built his system around that originally i believe. My teacher told me to strive to know everything, even if you don't train fully in everything.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's a blatant contradiction:
1. the mma fighter who trains (example schedule given), becomes mediocre at everything, and when faced an expert at something, gets smashed. Therefore that's the problem with MMA
2. The GJJ practitioner won't have the best knife defense, or stand up, or takedowns etc...yet, there's no problem with GJJ?
Lol you should go into an MMA gym with your higher belts and see how you do in a vale tudo with them.
Maybe one day. 🤷♂️
First thing first, though.
My biggest issue with your position is that you say you shouldn’t take parts away from GJJ because it’s an all encompassing system but also say if you train a whole bunch of different arts you’ll never be good at any one thing.
GJJ has more in common with MMA than it does with traditional martial arts like TKD. MMA very clearly works. GJJ works too. But it’s because they’re similar not different.
I like a lot of the philosophical videos. Just happen to disagree with this one. Still a fan of GJJ though.
Thank you for this! I love when we all can discuss this art we love. I GUESS, my issue is with MMA, great as it is. I’m much more a fan of the old vale tudo, which preceded MMA (and boxing commissions, which messed up vale tudo). Old UFC was MUCH better than today’s UFC, IMHO
Can you point us to the Escrima instructor? I'd love to learn knife defense to any level
I have one here in Flower Mound, TX. You around?
@@KamaJiuJitsu not quite, I'm near Osage Beach, Missouri.
It seems to me you're offering a strawman. Yes, if you try to learn too many things in too short an amount of time you won't succeed. But that doesn't mean follow the Gracie to the letter forever, like a god-given commandment. In fact, I'm sorry to say pure GJJ has clearly been shown again and again to not be enough in today's MMA, it's standup is way too rudimentary and outdated. That's why the newer generation of Gracie could never excel like the older one, eventually having to accept the need for cross-training, and even then generally being too late to adapt.
Now, if we're talking the case of someone training 2-3 days a week (not an MMA fighter by a long shot, in fact not even an amateur BJJ competitor), then I might agree with you - better to learn a simple ready-made system.
If the goal is to be an MMA fighter, you’re right. But when did I EVER say MMA is the goal? That’s like telling a basketball player he needs to run on grass so he can play soccer better.
you and I are talking apples and oranges.
So are you suggesting stay pure to one style? Doesn't it make sense to have a basic understanding of the opponent's "red zone."
Long enough to master something.
You always, reply. You're the best, much respect!
The difference between Gracie Jiu Jitsu (at least as described on this channel) and BJJ (as well as mma) is like the difference between fundamentalist religion and modern science. If you prefer fundamentalist religion you'll probably prefer this kind of approach. If you prefer science and empiricism you'll almost certainly prefer BJJ and/or mma. Neither is "wrong" per se, they both have value in their own ways. It's important to know the difference though.
Anyway, another detailed video here. Thanks!
I think the title needs to be corrected sport jiu jitsu does not mix well with mma
Definitely does tho Bryce Mitchell hit a twister last week and theres plenty of elite fighter who train what would be considered sport Jiu jitsu
So called "competition bjj" athletes have performed a lot better than traditional "self defense" guys in mma. It just doesn't seem substantiated at all to say that completion bjj doesn't translate to the street or mma. Show me the evidence!
Coming from a heavy striking background I want to get decent bjj so I can get back up and also escape submissions and start striking again.
GSP is supposed to be the greatest fighter ever !! thats what they say... really !! what happens if you put george only bjj against roger gracie .. boxing only against a 35 year old pro..... and karate against a kyokushin master.... george would loose at all 3 . hes the best at his sport mma...george st. pierre grappling only against kabib... !!! no martial art takes care of all situations... And by the way the best technique on the planet when a knife comes out is RUNNING as fast as possible !!! i played in bars all over the americas mexico and south are brutal when it comes to knife fighting i seen them go down at least 30 times ..SOMEONE ALWAYS GETS CUT UP REAL BAD .. DEATH...in brasil once a fight starts in this huge club over a lady , a knife comes out , one guy runs away real fast, comes back with a machete ... opppa . !!
Maybe
Just maybe the Gracies knew what they were doing creating this system (note the sarcasm)
IMO, it is the most comprehensive system of self defense for the every day man.
Nothing is perfect
But nothing is better than this system
Commenting just to reinforce my like
Thank you
You can get the same form of "base" with a good headcoach at an MMA gym, where the headcoach or another MMA coach has special classes to mix everything together and dont forget you sparr a lot in MMA gyms so you file your abilities against a lot of other people often with various backrounds in other martial arts. We have some Judo dudes at my gym, some free style wrestlers, some Greco Roman, some Boxers, some Karate Nerds like me, some TWD and other styles mixed and so you have a lot of different experience
And to come to the speciallist arguement, if you train MMA and get into a fight with a Boxer, your wrestling ist probably good enough to take him down and BJJ him, while your standup is so good, that he doesnt kill you. Same with a good wrestler, yeah he is going to take you down probably, but on the ground, what is he gonna do? Pin my shoulders untill I am sad? The MMA guy is probably gonna recover guard or take the back from the wrestling side controll and chocke/joint lock the shut out of the wrestler.
It's like the saying: "Jack of all trades but master of none, is better then the master of one"
Mayyybe.
Name one semi-modern example of someone in MMA succeeding with only Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Case and point 🙄
Being an MMA fighter is being a Jack of all trades but master of none.
Some are legit masters of an art.
Ryan love ur videos but man I know ur rickson gracie lineage and helio but the self defense shit is kinda bullshit Man U can barley train them with resisting partners and you should never try and take a gun or knife away from anyone good way to die I train jiu jitsu for self defense which is white to blue after that is Minimal gains with self defense I own a gun and I will use that over gjj for self defense and it works much better with less effort