The Hidden Philosophies of Star Wars' Most Masterful Story Arc - What Made Umbara So Great?
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
- inb4 all the lazy fortunate son jokes
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:09 Recap: The Umbara Arc
4:40 Darkness on Umbara
9:08 Umbara and Vietnam
11:38 The General
16:03 Dehumanization
19:15 Plan of Dissent
23:39 Obedience and Betrayal
26:54 Carnage of Krell
29: 54 Good Soldiers Frag Bad Officers
34:34 Outro - Krátké a kreslené filmy
![A Guide to the Separatist’s Greatest Vehicular Creations of the Clone Wars [Volume 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dsmVpjsqBkI/mqdefault.jpg)
Umbara is easily top 3, arguably best arc of TCW and best 107 minutes in all of Star Wars.
I think that the only arc better is the final arc of the series
Besides maybe maul coming back in szn 5 n the final arc this def up there wish we got more pong krell
WRONG! Geonosis.
I'd say the top 3 The Clone Wars arcs, from 3 to 1 would be: Battle of Umbara, Ahsoka on the Run, and the Siege of Mandalore.
What upsets me most is the Umbarans themselves
For those who don't know they were part of the Republic until their minister was assassinated during Padme's investigations, enraged and realizing the Senate did nothing to prevent this or protect them they decided to join the Separatists in order to achieve independence and sovereignty
The Republic didn't allow that to happen because Umbara is a key location in the Kashyyk system and instead of opening up negotiations they decided to send in a full blown planetary invasion to submit the local population, the soldiers fighting here are defending their home
The Umbara Arc is the loss of innocence for the show. I loved it.
How were the Battle of Geonosis, Zombie Geonosians or any of the stuff Maul was up to "innocent"?
@@inthemiddleofsomecalibrationswhile I agree that those are dark episodes, they are still very clear on who are the good vs bad guys. I think the reason the og comment says Umbara is the loss of innocence is due to Krell. Since he’s a jedi, a title usually given to righteous and just heroes, his betrayal and evil is a huge tonal upset. Thus, a loss of innocence.
@@samk4911, and let's be honest with ourselves, the idea that the Republic and the Jedi were infallibly "good" has been challenged since Season 1.
@@samk4911 Krell was a jerk
501st Journal Umbara: "The 501st had garnerd the reputation of being the Republic's best clone legion of the war, which meant we were often present at the worst battles. Umbara did nothing to change that notion. The murder of an Umbarian senator was the final straw in a chain of events that led to the system's withdrawal from the Republic, so we had to take it back. That was easier said than done. The Umbarains throw everything they had at us with technology years, if not decades ahead of our own, and the darkness of the planet was on their side that very day. Our only light to guide us was Anakin Skywalker. He was a soldier's soldier who always shines a bright light of hope over those who served beneath him. That light of hope was extinguished when General Pong Krell took his place."
"By the time the battle ended, the 501st had caught on to the treachy of Pong Krell. We knew he was too dangerous to be kept alive, so we did more than arrest him. We eliminated him. When the battle was done, there were no signs of celebration or satisfaction in the Republic’s latest victory. Just serial sighs of relief that it was all over.
God I miss the original battlefront II.
Anakin was a real one
Heard the clone's voice in my head while reading this. Makes me wish we got to see umbara in BF 2.
where is this from?
@@crackerman5519 05 battlefront II game. Campaign mode. Though the story is different, it still carries the same weight.
This channel literally makes me feel like I’m taking lecture classes on Star Wars. And I absolutely love that. As both a film student and a Star Wars nerd, thank you for making such an intellectual and engaging video.
I love umbara Arc l watch it all the time and probably the best clone wars Arc in the whole series it's insane
I like the Droid squad Ark the most but this is a good second
Personally I liked the Chip explanation, it’s something that explains why every single clone went with the orders. Even those who had caring and compassionate Jedi commanders who were stalwart in defending the Republic, like the 212th and Commander Cody open firing on Kenobi instantly? It is a cop out, sure. But it makes sense considering the humanity the clones embraced during the war
I prefer it a lot more too, there's no way the clones would be that inhuman and hive minded, because its made very clear since the movies they debuted in that clones are meant to be more than the droids they fought against beyond creativity and intelligence, they had bonds of brotherhood and friendship to the Jedi that treated them well, and are worth cherishing as sentient beings.
The old reasoning that they always hated the jedi is too bare bones. It was better to add in logical experiences of Jedi being unsuited for war on top of the chips ensuring total obedience.
Especially if said clone soldiers were supposed to represent actual soldiers struggles.
Plus I find the lack of beleif in the clones and the Jedi to be pretty solid addition to muddy the waters of trust in the Fives arc too.
Its also like, completely in line with Palpatine. He wouldnt want an independent army who felt like hunans, he wants essentialy slaves
This, the Darth Maul episodes, and the Fugitive Ahsoka arcs are the top 3 best arcs in the show. Although the Obi Wan Undercover arc is definitely a close 4th.
No mention of Fives’ order 66 Conspiracy arc is a disservice
@@EvangelOfficialthe amount of arcs missed shows how good tht show was put my cousin on the umbara arc now he wanna see the whole show
@@EvangelOfficial and the Siege of Mandalore
Both the Siege of Mandalore and Fives' Conspiracy arcs are a gut punch, I still can't help tearing up watching them.
I dont see the control chip as a, 'cop out' at all. I actually expected it. after watching Revenge of the Sith, I remembered that in Attack of the clones when Obi Wan went to Kamino, the kaminoans had mentioned that the clones were programmed to obey any order without question. It was actually the most likely scenario that they would be programmed to execute order 66. From what i gathered, that was the plan all along.
I don't think the inhibitor chips specifically were planned back when Episode ll was made, but it was pretty clear from the beginning that some sort of mind-meddling was going on with the clones.
The one complaint I have about the Umbara Arc is that Captain Rex was in charge of a full battalion or more when it should’ve just been Torrent Company, or have a Commander serving in the battle as well. Aside from that it’s one of the greatest battles in the entire war.
I mean rex is practically the right hand man of anakin
Rex is a commander in all but name. The in universe explanation, as I've been told, is that Skywalker didn't want to do the paperwork to make it official. So his official rank, on all documents, is captain, but he's really a commander.
@@RayHardman7567there’s also the fact that Ahsoka is commander for the legion
@@RepublicTrooper125 this just isn’t true at all lol. Ahsoka is a JEDI Commander, but she isn’t the main one in charge of the entire legion. That’s like saying Caleb Dune is the main leader of Grey’s unit, when in reality it’s Commander Grey himself.
Basically a Jedi Commander might have a fair bit of authority but they never own a whole unit. It is unknown who the leader of the 501st was before umbara, but Appo was Senior Commander (2nd highest clone rank) by the time of order 66. Ahsoka only had a quarter of that authority.
@@RepublicTrooper125 true. But the 41st Elite Corp had two commanders. Barriss and Gree.
This is my favorite arc when I first watched Star Wars The Clone Wars. Also this arc when Pong Krell does betray them is that it's looks more like a controlled Order 66 as my friends described it without the order being issued.
I love how even when the umbarabs outmaneuver the clones and deal heavy casualties they still get absolutely stomped, and the clones are generally still better shots and better trained
One must never forget the Umbara arc and always learn from it as we traverse the galaxy far, far away in the Star Wars universe. It really shows the audience that the clones were more than just literal carbon copy soldiers but human beings, making you really feel for their plight both before and even after things like the eventual activation of Order 66 and what happens to them once the war itself ends.
The Umbara Arc is still a story I remember seeing as a kid sitting in my living room that had me questioning the truth behind everyone's motivation and being there.
Many Arcs had me think about all sorts of things but Umbara really hit me as a deep, complex event that had me recording the episodes and rewatching them often so I could see every Clone's reaction in many scenes, just so I could attempt to make sense of the whole thing. Really had younger me thinking real hard 😅 All cause it was unlike any scenario of war or conflict I'd seen.
Then, you read up on stuff regarding the Vietnam War and Cold War stuff in general while at School, and it only ever got more intriguing.
I’ve been doing a chronological rewatch of TCW, got through the first episode of the umbara arc and some of the second, but I couldn’t do it. It’s so massively depressing and includes the deaths of some of my favorite clones. No hate to the arc, It’s deserving of all the praise it gets, it truly is a masterpiece. I just have a hard time watching it.
The one thing about the mutiny of the clones on Krell during the arc, was that ironically it would've been the only way to get rid of the Asshole. We have to remember, in the Vietnam movies, the characters are still normal people including the commanding officer. Here, the commanding officer is a jacked up super powered guy who could take on an army like most anime characters in Shonen. That said the main thing I liked about this was, it was a great way to portray the real reason why Order 66 was made in the first place and to emphasize further why the clones are the most tragic characters in the series of Star Wars.
This arc makes you love each & every clone even more. Hating to see any of them dying
As the seasons were being made, i was trying to find the best arc. After season 7, I finally found the top 3. At least in my opinion.
1. Siege of Mandalore
2. Umbara arc
3. Second battle of Geonosis
Those are some banger choices I definitely agree I also loved the Citadel arc
@@MCLegend13 great arc, I agree. Only reason it's not on the list is because of Tarkin.
The Senate has even BETTER philosophies.
Personally I love both depiction of Order 66: where the clones willingly executed it and where the clones were forced by the chip. Both has weight and meaning, even if those meanings are different. In my headcanon, both version happened. The first 200.000 clones didn't have the chip, that's what Syfo Dias ordered. Then the next 1 million units were ordered by Dooku, ordering the chips to be added in the mix. This way Order 66 could still be a standard military order and the chips were added as a failsafe so if a clone wouldn't carry out the order willingly, he could be forced to.
On another note, I don't agree that other Jedi were just as bad as Krell. Sure, they weren't great tacticians and occasionally made bad decisions, but for one: all the Jedi we saw and were familiar with led the clones by fighting alongside them while Krell just sat back and watched the battle from afar. Also, the Jedi we know were actually respected by their clone battalions. So when those Jedi made bad decisions which costed clone lives, the troopers didn't see it as suicide, instead they saw it as sacrifice. There could be exceptions, of course, maybe a lot, but I don't remember any named clone in The Clone Wars who spoke about their Jedi generals despisingly. But that's just my opinion, though.
One of the best arcs in star wars. Love these episodes on rewatch every time. The scene of the clones realizing they are killing each other always hits hard. ALWAYS. Star wars has themes of belly of the beast, good vs evil, and redemption. But its also about love, blood relation or not.
These episodes scared me as a child because I couldn't understand it at that time
One of my favorite AI Cover songs is Leaves From the Vine covered by a B1 because I view them and the clones as two of a kind, children of factories built for war alone with souls and conscious thought but no freedom to speak of in the galaxy spanning game of Chess. The line "Little soldier boy taken from home, forced to fight a war that was not his own." especially hits hard for me in that regard.
This comment is perfect and deserves allot more attention
@@gandalfthepotato9844 thank you. The video in question is on @CL-4NKsKaraoke and definitely worth a listen.
The Umbara arc is hands down the best arc in the series
Love how you ended the video with that nod to Commander Bacara with his quote on Ki Adi Mundi as well as how it correlated to Sergeant/Commander Appo and operation knightfall. Great video!
I usually have clone wars playing when i for to sleep but it couldn’t this time
Ah yes, the arc that separates the boys from the men.
Take a drink everytime he says “Umbara Arc.”
Your channel has renewed my interest in Star Wars. I used to love it when I was a kid (I was 12 when Phantom Menace came out and I still love that movie). I even had the incredible cross sections books for the OT and TPM. I never watched Clone Wars but your appreciation of it has made me want to watch it.
The reason we don't know about Appo's thoughts is because it was a quiet trip. Did he have traitorous thoughts? Perhaps, but he didn't dare say a word. Not when the order came down, and not on the ride to the Temple.
Ironically this was the only arc I skipped when I first watched the Clone Wars!! Thankfully I have corrected my mistake and agree that this is one of the best arcs in the show, especially the last 2 episodes in it. Just wow.
It's amazing especially when while yes Jesse, fives and hardcase did defy orders but at the same time what they did by doing so it helped the republic and honestly in the most anakin way possible
The clones having inhibitor chips actually came from George himself, not a lot of fans know that, and personally I do perfer the chip over them willing fallowing order 66 in legends which is funny couse I do perfer legends with clone wars, bad batch and rebels.
Troops are way more loyal to great commanders than they are to governments, especially ones that fight on the front. Without the inhibitor chips probably around a quarter to half of the clones would’ve defected to the Jedi
@@Sentient_Blob The only problem is most Jedi were not great commanders.
@@pedrokantor3997, true. But Anakin, Ahsoka, Obi-Wan, Plo Koon, Aayla Secura, and a few other Jedi WERE great commanders, and were greatly respected by the men under their command. Without the inhibitor chips, how likely do you think it is that the 501st, 212th, 104th, or 327th would've EVER done anything else except mutiny against "The Senate" after receiving Order 66?
@@occam7382 Not likely enough to count on it. Especially to execute a decades long plan to eliminate not just one, but two ancient galactic institutions in one fell swoop.
But the Jedi were overall bad commanders nonetheless, which makes it easier for clones to accept their orders after the chip wears off. Heck even decent commanders like Anakin relied on his ability to execute high risk high reward maneuvers without much concern for which clones make it to the end. They relied on running head first into battle, because that's what has worked for Jedi for millenia. Just turning on a Lightsaber was usually enough to get most parties to sit down and negotiate. With the Clone Wars however, they were given a mantle that was way beyond their experience or capability, which all only served Palpatine's interests in eliminating and discrediting the Jedi as an institution.
@@pedrokantor3997, very true. Overall, the Jedi were not great battlefield commanders, and their integration into the GAR was purely part of Palpatine's scheme to discredit them and make it easier to dispose of them when the time was right. That said, he had to have known there was a strong possibility that the Jedi weren't a monolith and that inevitably, some clone units would become more loyal to their above-average Jedi commanders than to the Republic that kept them enslaved. So he intorduced the inhibitor chips as a failsafe measure, and unfortunately for the Galaxy, it worked to near perfection.
If Krell being a traitor was an afterthought, then it shouldn't have been included at all.
8:08 I'd like to add that the Umbaran Militia's Overuse of the Gas lead to dependence, and any decrease in pressure within their pressure suits would cause the Soldiers to suffer from withdrawl symptoms on the spot. That's also why that one Soldier was just laying on the ground fidgeting after Fives punched a leak into his helmet.
Why didn’t you say platoon? Actually never mind they were not murdering civilians and sexually assaulting children which actually happened in Vietnam. Just look up tiger force.
This was truly incredible. Fantastic job friend.
Nah Slick did do one thing that was wrong. His actions got some of his brothers killed. I get why he did what he did, and even agree that it's awful how the clones are basically all slaves. But I can't just ignore the fact that clones died because of him.
In a way, this arc forces the fans, as well as the 501st, and to a lesser extent the 212th, to see the truth. We were all in the dark and ironically enough it was the planet completely covered in darkness that showed us the light. The 501st, the 212th, and us the fans at this point had been use to follow Anakin, Ahsoka, and Obi-Wan as ae leaders and our Jedi. Sure we sometimes saw other Jedi like Yoda, Mace, Plo, Kit, Aayla, and so on, but they were also usually shown as caring individuals who saw the Clones as people, and even if we didn't see that part much they were at least competent military leaders like Mace. So for a while, we the fans, and the Clones of the 501st and the 212th are led to believe that all Jedi are mostly competent and very caring about their Clones, but then everything changes when Krell arrives. Fives himself voices this opinion, "He is not acting like the other Jedi. He's showing no respect for us."
However, Krell may have already fallen to the Dark Side, but as his previous record shows, even before that he was a terrible leader. And we the fans and the Clones are now forced to see the truth, that the Jedi we've been following and serving are the expectations to the rule, not the rule itself. Sure, this revelation doesn't change how we feel about these Jedi we've followed and served under, they are still great leaders and caring leaders who we would trust and rush into battle with, but what does change is our views of the Jedi Order as a whole. Up until now, we've only seen the good side of the Jedi Order, even Anakin and Mace despite some of their faults show us mostly the best parts of the Jedi Order, and some of their worst parts too but it all balances out for them I think. However, Krell forces us to see the other side of the coin that there are Jedi who are not kind to their Clones and Jedi that even worse are very bad tacticians. First, we had those two season 3 episodes where Padme tried to stop the bill to buy more Clones and now we have Umbara both of which show us that this war isn't black and white, it's grey and sometimes very red from all the blood.
However, there are two points I must disagree with you on, Geetsly. One, I still believe the invasion of Umbara is justified, because their secession puts the Wookies in danger, and I am a firm supporter of the Wookies so I will not let them be harmed. However, just because I think the invasion is justified, doesn't mean I'll agree with everything the Republic does to the planet. A better example of what I'm talking about is the Battle of Cato Neimodia during the Outer Rim Sieges, I think the Republic's invasion is justified given how big a supporter Cato Neimodia is to the Separatists and how big a threat it is, but what's not justified in my opinion is the burning of grub hatcheries, those are innocent kids in all this. You can concur a plant and kill combatants in battle, but you don't kill prisoners(which this arc didn't as we even saw the 501st take Umbara prisoners and not just kill everyone, and we can assume with how kind Obi-Wan and the 212th are that they took prisoners too and treated them fairly, Tinn and his troops are an unknown they could have been assholes and killed prisoners) and you especially don't kill innocent civilians like kids.
The other thing I slightly disagree with you is how this event would justify Order 66. Personally, I think for the likes of the 501st, the 212th, and the Wolf Pack(the 104th) the events of Umbara would make them more loyal to their specific Jedi because they would see how lucky they are to be serving under a Jedi who genuinely cares about them and is a decent leader. However, for other Clones units, like the Galactic Marines or Faie's unit this event would make them angry and resent their Jedi more and thus they would be all for Order 66 when it came. And then there are Clones that don't have a strong opinion of the Jedi either way and hearing about an event like this might tip them from their neutral opinion to one that favors Order 66. Seeing how different Clones reacted to the events of Umbara would be very interesting and the debates they would have with each other, Clones like Rex and Cody would defend the Jedi despite the acts of Krell and say they are still good people worth following, while others like Faie and Baccara would say these events prove that the Jedi are not worthy of their loyalty. Each Clone would have different opinions because despite what Krell thinks, us the fans, the Clones themselves, and several Jedi all the Clones are different from each other. As Yoda once said, "Clones you may be, but in the Force very different each of you is." Unfortunately, that difference also means some of them are assholes, like Faie. Just like there are bad Jedi like Krell, there are bad Clones too that aren't like Rex and the others.
Nice. Very nice. By the way, if you want to hear some juicy clone debates regarding Umbara, I recommend you check out a fanfic called "War Bonds." It has some weak points, especially early on, but you will not be disappointed.
@@occam7382 Thank you.
It sounds interesting, where is this one located Fanfiction Net?
"Execute Order 66" is Blind Loyalty (to Sidious)
I wouldn't say the brain-chip was a cop-out, more a necessity to ensure that no clone would disobey the order, and that the Jedi would get as little warning as possible. The only thing it does that I would consider slightly questionable is that it absolves the clones of any guilt over the issue, instead making them unwitting victims in their own right, though equally, that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Well…”charlie doesnt surf”
I never saw clones surfing either. 🤷♂️.
Great video
In most militaries soldiers are expected to offer alternative solutions to their commanders. When the final plan is put into operation they are expected to follow it, but their commander should have taken their input on board and given it due consideration.
As to sacrificing lives to achieve a mission, that’s the unfortunate devils arithmetic of combat, sometimes you have to knowingly send some soldiers to die to protect the lives of the many more. At it’s most brutal there’s “Reconnaissance by Fire”, if you don’t know where the enemy are you send out a small unit to the general area you think they are and watch to see where they get shot at from, hopefully your artillery can paste the enemy before too many of your troops get injured or killed. It sucks but when you sign on that’s what you’re signing on for.
"Often, you can tell how heroic a character in this show is meant to be purely based on how much stock they put into following orders, respecting command authority, and being unquestioningly loyal to the powers that be." I think that idea is demonstrated no better than in the character arcs of Rex and Ahsoka, who I would personally argue are the main characters of the show. At the beginning, Rex is just another loyal clone trooper, unfailingly obedient to his superior officers, and often unwilling to even question, much less disobey, orders. Ahsoka, meanwhile, begins her journey as a bright-eyed, naive Padawan, who puts her complete faith in the Jedi Order and the Republic, and - although more independent that Rex was at his start - still tended to be hesitant to challenge the authority figures in her life. By the end, Rex was so independent and so willing to challenge the powers that be, that he briefly resisted the influence of his inhibitor chip when Order 66 was executed to save someone he cared about, something that as far as we know, no other clone managed to do. By war's end, Ahsoka had matured to the point that she refused to re-enter the Jedi Order, and openly challenged the Jedi and the Republic by choosing to go to Mandalore to aid Bo-Katan and her people instead of going to Coruscant to play baby-sitter for Palpatine. Ahsoka and Rex exemplify how the best attributes in people can shine through when we don't blindly submit to authority and trust in ourselves and the people around us.
As much as I agree the Chip explanation could have been done better, I wouldn't call it a cheap cop out. It opened the door to so many good ways to tell character stories. Did star wars as a franchise tackle those stories? A couple times. Were they good? Mixed. But the core of the story is sound and strong: children born in a factory taught from birth to be soldiers, then trained by their generals and experiences to be independent thinkers then they hear a word and their bodies act against their wills to kill the people they called friends everything that made them THEM was either erased or morphed via code. So much drama in that premise and so much room for character based storytelling and deep insights into how they would respond before, during, and after the fact.
From a narrative standpoint it's debatable where the inhibitor chip was the best way to handle Order 66. But in-universe, it makes perfect sense that Palpatine wouldn't risk allowing free will to interfere with his plan to eliminate the Jedi.
Without the chips, for example, how likely is it that clones who called themselves "Plo's Bros" would've been willing to shoot down Plo Koon?
@@RedXlV more of why, while it wasn't done perfectly, it is not a cop out in my mind.
22:15 Dogma's personality as a character makes a lot of sense if you consider the definition of the word.
Dogma: a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true. Dogma literally follows the dogma of the GAR even though most other clones are more open minded. Love details like that.
Question for people who watched this when it first aired: I remember a commercial for TCW (I didn’t watch the show until the last season was airing) that said something like “You know when you get a substitute teacher that’s not as fun as your regular teacher? That’s what the clones are going through in this upcoming episode!” Or something to that effect. Was that referring to Krell??? Does anyone remember the commercial I’m talking about? Because it’s been driving me crazy since I first watched the umbara arc. When I first watched the umbara arc and saw Krell show up I immediately thought this must be the episode the commercial was for. He looked vaguely familiar, and I don’t remember another episode where another Jedi took command of a different unit of clones. And in the first episode I was like “yeah, I’ve had teachers like that-cold, demeaning, arrogant- that makes sense” but by the end of the arc I was so weirded out at the comparison. Mean substitute = genocidal sith wannabe.
I know this is long but I really hope someone remembers and can confirm or clear this up for me.
Scriptwriter here: yes! I remember this commercial, and it was for either the first or the second episode of this arc. I left a comment about it on the script, but I didn't think anyone else would remember it. Such an odd commercial haha, the narrator said it in such an unfittingly hardcore tone too
@@geetslys Thank you!!! This has been driving me crazy, trying to figure out if that commercial was real or if I misremembered.
I can just imagine some little kid watching that commercial before the umbara arc and then wondering if a substitute was going to try to kill them. 😂 What I’d give to be a fly on the wall of the pitch meeting for that commercial!
One thing I noticed is that Anakin’s men have to fight obi wan’s men due to a dark side user like in the movies
This was a fantastic breakdown of one of the best arcs from the show. Well done!
What I liked most was the difference in how dark it became. In the Ryloth arc, you got cartoony CIS villains bomb civilians to show off how evil they are. Here, you see Rex and the bois casually executing a injured Umbaran.
You should do a clip about the Battle of Bothawui and Mission to Skytop Station. this is under rated and needs to be informed
I wonder how Kal and the Nulls would've handled Krell... Would love to read that blood bath.
Together we shall speak for the Law and the Land, and shall drive the mongrel dogs of the Empire from Umbara.
Thumbnail nailed it. Umbara was just space Vietnam for the Republic.
I always wondered how other clone legions would've handled krells command on umbara 🤔
Aha! Actual subtitles, and they're funny. That's a sub from me. This video made me go back and rewatch the entire arc before finishing it.
honestly, your theory at 31:27 is EXACTLY what i'd been saying since the arc aired and i TRULY believe it was a missed opportunity
I’m not sure about the moral disagreement with the battle. Like it or not, trade routes are vital to the galaxy. Kashyyk is literally a world connected to Umbara, so thus it joining the CIS cuts off a Republic world. However, this is an argument that could be used by the CIS since some member worlds are also deep in Republic space.
What I think should have been addressed is why Umbara joined the Confederacy anyways. I mean, Umbara was a loyalist world under Senator Mee Deechi. He was very pro-war and given Umbara’s tech, I’m thinking his world was making a killing arming the Republic, like Kamino and Kuat. So why switch sides? I doubt it can be because of Deechi’s death. I mean, he was killed just because Lolo Purs was worried he knew she killed Onocanda Farr and Lolo was arrested. I honestly don’t understand if Umbara switched sides to supply the Separatists. If they wanted another customer, why not be neutral and sell to both sides?
Given Umbaran culture, I say some scheming politician won the election to become the next senator and used a propaganda campaign to convince the people to switch sides. I wouldn’t be surprised if he had Separatist backing given what happened on Onderon. Maybe the people didn’t even need much convincing. Maybe they don’t care who they sell arms to.
That’s another thing, Umbara would no doubt sell arms to the Separatist military. It would be their right and responsibility as a member of the CIS. However as a source of arms, wouldn’t the Republic have to target Umbara anyway like it went after Geonosis and the Separatists after Mon Cala?
Look, I’ll admit that I’m speculating and could be dead wrong. No official reason has ever been given. But Geetsly seems to be taking Umbara’s secession for granted. I mean, Deechi died shortly after the failed peace agreement when Coruscant was bombed. Wouldn’t Republic citizens like the Umbarans think the Separatists are monsters who only want to spread war? Heck, this is also when the Separatists are getting pushed back and the Republic starts invading Separatist territory. If the tide of the war is starting to shift, why join the side that’s starting to lose? (1/2)
A couple other objections. Slick’s sympathetic, but I feel he’s putting too much trust in the Separatists liberating his brothers when the war is over. He may have betrayed the Republic a few months into the war, but he was still witnessed to battles where the Separatists Military acted cruel to innocent beings. Given Slick’s training, wouldn’t he assume the Separatist politicians and civilians are no different?
Now about Krell. I’ll agree he’s not a lone exception. A number of Jedi did fall to the Dark Side besides Anakin. The most obvious example are the Inquisitors, but there were others in Canon. Some of these fallen Jedi might have been just as cold as Krell. Perhaps some Jedi who didn’t fall were the same. However I’ve yet to see any evidence they make up a significant portion of the Jedi Order. The majority of Jedi we’ve seen have treated their clones with respect. If anything, Krell comes off more as an Imperial officer, appropriate since he wants to be on the true winning side of the Clone Wars. However, Krell being in command despite his disrespect for clones does highlight how the Republic likes him because he’s won more battles than any other Jedi. He might even have had a 100% win record like the Bad Batch. Even if the Jedi Order didn’t like him, it’s likely the Republic pressured them to keep Krell around like how the Jedi Council was pressured to put Ahsoka on trial and expel her from the Order. It might help that Krell was likely similar to Tarkin. Maybe even Palpatine thought Krell could have made a good Inquisitor.
Are the Clone Troopers slaves? Yes, even a Canon fan supportive of the Galactic Republic has to concede that point. We see in the Bad Batch how the clones never had representation. In novels, Padme drew up bills to make the clones citizens, but died before they could be presented. The Republic never seemed to consider paying the clones or getting them housing, things left up to the Empire which just dumped the clones out to starve. Slick’s anger thus to me comes off more misaimed. I mean, imagine if the clones didn’t have the Jedi as leaders? They probably would all still look the same and not have names. They would be led like battle droids or stormtroopers given the character of officers like Tarkin. Hell, I even imagine that if Palpatine was found out and his plot was crushed, the clones would quickly get thrown under the bus. I mean with chips in their heads, they would look like walking time bombs to the Jedi and Republic citizens.
As much as I love the clones, I’m not sure about saying their arrest of Krell was them really going way off the rails the Kaminoans set for them. Yes, Rex does say what they’re doing is very serious and even gives them an out. Still, technically aren’t their actions legal? The Kaminoans do implant the inhibitor chips thinking they would be used to turn clones against Jedi that are traitors. Krell is probably just the situation the Kaminoans imagined Order 66 being used.
Finally, Jedi tactics. Yes, the Jedi like frontal assaults. Rex and his men even compare Anakin to Krell. However, Fives brings up how Anakin leads from the front, just like most Jedi. Whatever the misgivings clones have to Jedi leadership, it seems tempered by Jedi treating them humanely and also being with them in the thick of the fighting.
Now, to be fair to Geetsly I feel this argument is something to be reserved for Canon Star Wars. Geetsly is coming from Legends where his stance in the video would be very accurate. Jedi in Legends don’t really prioritize their treatment of the clones. It’s thanks to their Mandalorian trainers that Legends clones name themselves and paint their armor. Relations between Jedi and Clones are more tense and there is also the lack of the inhibitor chips. As for the war effort, there are more stories in Legends which show worlds willingly joining the Separatists, even outright cheering them. Legends is darker and more mature. Canon is lighter and softer by comparison. Canon has the Jedi in general stick closer to their principles in spite of the horrors of war. They only resort to assassinating Dooku just before the Outer Rim Sieges. Legends Jedi seem to fall more quickly to the Dark Side. The difference is really in how long it takes though. Essentially, Canon and Legends have their similarities and differences. I just wish Geetsly would acknowledge that difference like Eckharts and Generation Tech. (2/2)
Deechi was a hardcore loyalist and militarist, yes. And then he got killed by a Republic agent anyway. Given the conspiracy-filled, cutthroat nature of politics on Umbara, the Umbarans weren't inclined to believe that Lolo Purs was acting alone. So they were ripe for Separatist-leaning (or simply willing to take Separatist bribes) politicians to exploit the assassination and take power.
@@RedXlV I don’t know. If the Separatists did back Deechi’s successor, would they go with a false story like that? I mean, it certainly would be a clever conspiracy, but what would the Republic get out of it? A better lie might be how Umbara is falling out of relevance to the Republic Military. Hell, that might be true. No doubt plenty of senators would elevate themselves as top militarists to get their planet or corporation to replace Umbara as a supplier of Republic arms.
@@RedXlV You know, it sort of irritates me with people who say Umbara seceded because the death of their Senator showed the Republic couldn’t protect its most powerful people. I’m sorry, but that sounds more like an excuse than a reason. The Star Wars website says that Umbarans felt the Separatists were a more worthy cause, but says no more. Umbaran culture in the Wiki is said to have Umbarans use subterfuge, spying, assassination, and manipulation to climb the ranks of their society. This certainly would paint the picture instead that the Umbarans switched sides because the Separatists gave them an offer of power, something along the lines of why corporations sided with the Separatists. However this could be contrasted by the fact the Umbarans also rebel against the Galactic Empire despite it being the dominant government. Maybe it’s a sign the Umbarans have limits with their way of life. Or maybe it’s because the Empire took some of their own authority, which they later took completely after the rebellion thanks to Umbara being in debt.
My point is while I get people thinking the Umbarans are no different than other worlds in the CIS, especially since the Umbara Arc is based on Vietnam War media, Star Wars just doesn’t paint as sympathetic of a picture for the Umbarans. Granted, Star Wars could provide an actual reason for Umbara switching sides, but until then there’s just going to be speculation based on the facts we have.
@@tristankawatsuma8962or maybe TCW didn't care about its own internal continuity, just like it didn't care about tying into EU.
I really like this deeper look into an arc's story and meaning its quite interesting to have this look, i never could get myself to watch this arc more than two to three times or something, i watched it as a kid and absolutely hated how incompetent it was and how bad it was for having hem be evil and what not but that was just my younger mind not comprehending the message behind it and i geuss the feeling stayed it hurts to see the close treated like that but now i do see it as a dang good arc
Watching this is when you realize the greatness you're witnessing in clone wars
I don't think the chips are really a cop out. It explains how the clones who were very close to great Jedi generals who they loved could carry out the order, but the depiction of Rex and ahsoka shows that if they really wanted to, they coulda have stopped at least some of the generals from being killed, but they didn't.
Good Soldiers think for themselves
I love this arc BECAUSE
It is shot like a war movie as opposed to a sci-fi fantasy
Most arcs end with the star destroyers triumphantly appearing above the planet
This end with rex wonder how he'll integrate into society
Of course for rex and the clones he was literally bred for war but the actual veterans did have to deal with somthing similar
Reintegration into normal society
I think of the end of full metal jacket or platoon or second half of deer hunter
All convey a similar idea
I also love how the cinematography is ground level
Really puts you there and draws parallels to war films
@@seansmith6255 Yup, I think even on the commentary they pretty much confirm the shot of Pong Krell they ripped from Apocalypse Now I think it was. Star Wars has always pretty clearly worn its influences on its sleeves, and this arc is no exception. I think it somewhat falls into the "Americans making movies about how sad killing foreigners made its soldiers" meme, but I don't think that undercuts the underlying message that even if they live through it, soldiers get mega fucked mentally and emotionally by war.
Your comment made me realize, we compare a kids show (6+ years of age!!!) to some of the most brutal, excruciatingly depressing war movies in the history of cinema... I wish TBB was rated R (or at least PG13).
@@nastyfyme Nah I think that's part of what makes it so great, it's digestible for kids, but it doesn't shy away from touching on the horrors of war, and disability, or the banal terror of the military industrial complex, or the abject cruelty of chattel slavery. They're important things to talk about.
There's an important lesson for kids in the clone war, and in this épisode in particular. Not to obey blindly to anyone without questions is wrong for anyone.
The airstrikes are like the same tactics in the Vietnam War
Exécutions are about revenge, but some crimes deserves to be avanged.
When I think about Star Wars the Umbara Arc is one of the stories within the franchise that comes to mind as Star Wars at its peak.
Absolute banger 🔥
Good, yes. Most masterful, Valars no! We got Jabiim, Haruun Kal, the hunt for a crazed Asajj Ventress all the way to Boz Pity, the Vader-led Jedi Purges, the diaried records of the Skywalker-unaffiliated 501st Legion, the brave if almost unintentional rescue of one Gial Ackbar from Tarkin's Lambda shuttle, the sacrifice of Red Hand Squadron on Toprawa, the adventures of Imperial ace Maarek Stele for that, and so on.
If I had my way on referencing Star Wars in either other media or, better yet, leading a purer Legends continuity by example, THOSE shall be referenced quite commonly and proudly, even if it means the disparaging expense of "those Talzin-obsessed hags", "the son of Fett iteration leading an army of cringe Spy Kids" and "that incorrigible Sloane daughter of a murglak".
I'm tired of legends purists. The 2008 Clone Wars despite it's flaws at least provides substance which the 2003 Clone Wars lacked.
@@merafirewing6591 Substance that's actually in the rest of the CWMMP project, which TCW 2008 ungratefully disses.
@@merafirewing6591 And besides, the non-Clone Wars stuff I also mentioned is something not even Battlefront 2 2017, Squadrons, and Rebels have given justice quite equally.
@@michaelandreipalon359 this is what I mean about legends purists, and the 2008 Clone Wars was mostly a George Lucas creation. Half the Star Wars fans wouldn't even stomach what Legends has in store, and do you really want Star Wars to plunge into something more akin to Warhammer 40k?
@@merafirewing6591 I don't know, at least the Warhammer 40K stuff (the Pius Dea, to be exact) is nicely condensed and put in a historical Dark Ages-style series of fluff. That way, the imagination can truly run wild without ruining perspectives.
And besides, trash and excess like The Old Republic MMO, the Denning-verse, The Force Unleashed II, the Star Wars 2013 comics, and so on can be easily decanonized from the Legends prime continuity proper and thus be deemed Infinities Multiversal tales.
This Arc is what Separates The Kids from the Grown Ups
Plus rick and morty fans saying that is it Incredible that the creator Mr Justin Beat My Wife voices Rick and Morty But Mr Dee Bradley voices all the clones in the show and is legions superior to that Man ❤
Best CZcams star wars channel straight facts 🔥👌💯😎
Operation Knightfall would be even more signifcant for Appo since it's Anakin leading the troops into the Jedi Temple. Even if the biochip is affecting their behavior (my headcanon being that the chip is imprinted with all Jango Fett's hatred for the Jedi because of his New Mandalorian brothers' deaths and his enslavement in Galidraan), they must retain some awareness to rationalize their behavior. Appo wouldn't even question Order 66 because it's Anakin goddamn Skywalker leading the operation and killing Jedi alongside his men.
If the Hero With No Fear, the first Jedi to acknowledge Clones as individuals and encourage them to take on names and identities of their own, is leading a search and destroy operation against a supposed Jedi coup (i.e. turning against his own superiors just like Rex and Appo did against Krell), then Appo wouldn't just have no reason to doubt him. *He'd be in full Doom Slayer Meets Rambo mode, as would every other clone that had previously fought alongside Anakin.*
Tragically, Anakin's virtue of personal and emotional loyalty that allowed Palpatine to manipulate and corrupt him was passed down to his Clone Troopers and was similarly used to manipulate them. The biochip may have set them on a path, but their traumas and experiences that led them to trust Anakin's judgement just made them run down said path blindly.
I'd even say that the Umbara arc has more parallels to Heart of Darkness, really.
i mean there was that little trench zapper droid
Could you do a character breakdown of Rex, similar to your ones on Anakin, Palpatine, and Padmé?
Stay tuned ;)
Probably my favorite thing to come out of clone wars
This was my favorite part of the series, nothing else quite like it.
I’d argue that the Republic is justified with invading Umbara due to the fact that the trade routes are also supply routes and that Umbara succeeded from the Republic during a civil war to join the traitor’s side.
GEETSLY don’t forget the slaughter of villager in the Vietnam war it’s somewhat reminiscent of the clone friendly fire incident (US soldiers slaughtered Vietnam innocents because of bad info given to them and a miss sighting of a rifle as they thought the village was a stronghold of vietcong soldiers)
After a while, you do gotta admit, it is a kids show
Welcome to the Arc that did numbers on me as a kid. That and Massacre are why I just stopped watching the show after the Onderon arc in Season 5.
Umbara is Space Vietnam, like the 50s-70s Vietnam War
Ah, yes, the episode where Mr. Krabs joins the Dark Side.
Not addressing the big picture of why the clones are on umbara adds to their characters, not seeing the big picture until it's too late and not knowing what to do with themselves besides figjt
One of these days, can we get a comparison between the Jedi, who listened and learned versus the ones who didn’t
I would love to see a comparison between etain tur-mukan and ki-adi- Mundi
This is, without a doubt, the single best arc in the entire show and my personal favorite. Even more than Mauls arcs and the Seige of Mandalore. Dee Bradly Baker is one of the most underrated VAs.
Was there ever a good explainstion, how there can b an umbaran who serves as one of palps top advisors, when umbara was one of the republics fiercest oppnents?
With the zero tollerance approach,the republic often took against seperatist worlds it seems quite weird that she not only got this job, but also kept it well into the empire,that caused this even to become more prevelent than b4.
My favourite arc
Before the Siege of Mandalore arc this was my favourite arc
Do we know the reason palpitine called anakin off world?
Ot can also be viewed for the GWOT
I think it's a neat detail that Ahsoka isn't in the arc at all, as if to emphasise that what's going down is a serious topic
Real life: when the trees start speaking Vietnamese
Star Wars: when the fog starts speaking umbaran
I’m only doing this because I don’t like him
That’s reason enough
I'm not sure if you ever played Fallout 4 but there is a comparative narrative to the Clones of the Star Wars universe & the Sims of the fallout universe..
Ah shit I guess I'll be rewatching umbara episodes again
Nah bro, the Umbara ark is one of the best in CW.
As such, it has to be watched every other month☝🏼
On a tactical standpoint too, Skywalker and Krell use diametrically opposing styles of command.
Skywalker mostly relies on Auftragstaktik, whereas Krell uses Befehlstaktik.
Both words are German and describe the way battles are conducted.
Auftragstaktik was developed in Napoleonic times to combat planning issues on the ground.
Therefore the objective itself was given but the choices on how to reach that objective were heavily outsourced to command on the ground.
Which means fewer casualties, high adaptability and also self responsibility.
That is why these men could adapt and find solutions around the given problem.
Befehlstaktik on the other hand treats soldiers and units as chess pieces. All orders are made by higher command and are to be executed to the letter.
No thoughts given to unforeseen difficulties on the ground.
In that way, Skywalker is similar to Erwin Rommel, who actively defied high command and even Hitler personally to exploit the Allies tactical errors.
Krell compares to Luigi Cadorna. This Italian general launched 12 offensives along the Isonzo river against Austria Hungary. His death toll is generally regarded as a war crime against his own soldiers and resulted in Austro-German forces almost breaking through to Venice.
By brains one saved blood and sweat, by force of fanaticism the other slaughtered his own men and caused a potentially fatal collapse.
flipped compared to real life, where most separatists are libertarian capitalists wanting economic freedom from the liberal/Republican capitalists that desire control over regulation, as opposed to the socialist/communists wanting economic freedom from the Republican/liberal capitalists. You have the masses of lower quality troops(socialists and communists) against the imperialist republican/liberal troops who had no choice but to fight or be eliminated/imprisoned (à la the American draft). In some ways, it's rather brilliant of Lucas to do this as a way to avoid criticism from the U.S. audience propagandized by the red scare. Basically all the crimes the seperatist committed are a projection of what the Western capitalist nations committed against the various socialist governments.
Have they done an episode about what happened to the 501st in the empire?
I ask this question a lot, but I really want to know.
Between Star Wars, and Harry Potter, who's a worse character? Pong Krell, or Dolores Umbridge?
I love the schizophrenic view of war from Hollywood
Umbara should of been a frozen wasteland if so much light was blocked out