How GOOD were Stantler & Wyrdeer ACTUALLY? - History of Stantler & Wyrdeer in Competitive Pokemon
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Stantler & Wyrdeer are today’s Pokemon for our competitive history series! Join False Swipe Gaming in this overview of Stantler & Wyrdeer in competitive Pokemon! #pokemon #pokemonscarletandviolet #pokemonshowdown
PATREON!
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The Official False Swipe Gaming Twitter:
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
1:19 - GSC/Gen 2
4:27 - ADV/Gen 3
6:13 - DPP/Gen 4
8:08 - BW/Gen 5
9:39 - XY/Gen 6
10:25 - SM/Gen 7
11:20 - SV/Gen 9
15:02 - Outro
Directed by Kellen
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Written By
Kevin aka BKC
His Channel: / @bkcplayspokemon
This Bread Needs More Jam: / @thisbreadneedsmorejam583
Edited By
Connor Nguyen aka CDK
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VFX Intro By
Ryan Gonzales
ryangonzalesfilmmaker.weebly....
Sound Designed by
Ryan Gonzales
Game Capture Artist:
DarkMusician
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Songs Used (List of ALL Songs used for this series. Some may or may not make it into the video):
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My Twitter:
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Resources and Historical References
History of Rule Variants: bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wik...
Smogon University:
www.smogon.com/
Maikiri
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Aaron Cybertron Zheng:
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Pokeaim
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Pokemon Battle Historia:
pokemon.s20.xrea.com/
Nintendo Cup 2000 Team Construction:
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Nintendo Cup 2000 Tier List:
pokemon.s20.xrea.com/2nd/2000/
Pokemon Japanese Battle Wiki:
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Sprites From:
www.spriters-resource.com/
pldh.net/dex/sprites/index - Hry
Error at 13:57, Wyrdeer can't learn dazzling gleam. We apologize for this mistake, we mistook Tera Blast Fairy for dazzling gleam. Thank you to those for pointing it out!........Wyrdeer should definitely get dazzling gleam though please buff this mon 🤣
Justice for deer ;_;
Wait, then how come we can see it use the move in the gameplay footage?
@@AisSoraThey probably gen mons in so they can get them more easily to showcase the moves
@@Ryanthemudkip I think that's honestly perfectly fine.
@@CesarTorres61296 I don't have a problem with it either. Just stating a possibility
Surprised there was no mention of Stantler utterly ripping the daycare that is LC to shreds in Gen 9
It was never in LC I believe
Nvm it apparently was in LC
@@Light_2461yeah that and Dunsparce probably ended up banned
Look if we went over everyone who showed up to LC the past two gens and shitstomped the toddlers we'd be here all day.
@@Ludakolostupid reason it should have been mentioned it's a stantler video
Fun fact: Wyrdeer is the only Legends Arceus Pokémon to be Untiered.
Stantler is just cursed to be in competitive hell, what can I say?
It needs some moves like bulk up and swords dance, its almost a physical girafarig for the most part and with bulk up and swords dance that would help out the Stantler line a lot. Since you have to use agile style Psyshield Bash to evolve it, why not make Psyshield Bash increase your speed stat rather than defense? And now both Stantler and Wyrdeer will be good in low tiers
Oh, but have you witnessed the terror of Stantler in Gen 9 Little Cup?
I woulda thought it woulda been banned before it was capable of dropping LC im pretty sure both girafarig and dunsparce were...
They should’ve made it faster than Stantler because it goes fast outside of battle.
I think making it more physical would be better. Lower that sp.atk by 20-30 and put it into bulk then make it more physical
Stantler's location in Johto Route 36 and 37 near Violet and Ecruteak City is a reference to Nara, Japan, a locale famous for its friendly deer population.
Precisely Nara, Kansai
Stantler isn't very friendly tho
@@Agent-pd6wxit's more timid than anything, in legends it usually flees or throws an attack, in Scarlet and violet it only flees
@@andrewzorpas234 true back then they were brutal that they evolved by themselves but thanks to humans it lost its evolution
@@Agent-pd6wx For real. Its catch rate is trash, and if you're trying to train it's so fast and powerful for that point in the game that it will kill your weaker Pokemon with Stomp and not let you run. It also has Hypnosis for the extra spite. And yet, I've always really liked Stantler. So even though it's not friendly by any means, I still consider it my friend. Maybe I should call it up and see how it's doing after all these years...
The trend of cross generation evolutions losing Speed is starting to get old. The lore states that Wyrdeer's strong legs let it run fast, yet it loses 20 Speed when it evolves from Stantler, to its detriment.
I guess it’s only fast when you ride on it.
@@snapclub8751I mean what does the speed stat in pokemon even correlate to?? Reaction speed? How fast they can attack? Or travel speed??
They did it deliberately to make it more viable in doubles as a trick room setter.
@@baseballs1742 Farigiraf already has the Normal/Psychic doubles Trick Room sweeper role covered. To be fair, Farigiraf came after Wyrdeer, but to this day, Wyrdeer’s stat line both confuses and disappoints me - I wish it leaned more towards Speed over bulk instead.
Onix is suppose to be a fast as its description states and as shown in the anime, yet it’s super slow.
i always enjoyed stantler since gen 6 because it's pretty much the perfect example of a lesser known or forgotten mon, it excelled at nothing, but it was actually usable enough to be fun to use in campaigns with intimidate and a wonky moveset. i love this fella so much for no real reason other than it's just weird.
This sounds.... Super extra ultra specific.. XD
Stantler is, indeed, a weird deer
Least it'll have Delibird to keep it company in the slums.
No that's it's evolution@@andruberriosbuzura7835
@@jakeblancaster8498 But Delibird is still remembered….. due to its association with the much superior Iron Bundle. So it’s something at least.
I would like to acknowledge and appreciate the sheer amount of alliteration in the episode.
BKC never disappoints
Missed a golden opportunity to call it the "absolutely amazing amount of alliteration" there.
@@krinias1699
I’m not a hack.
This guy belongs to the list of many 2010's CZcamsrs
"it should had been a Psychic type"
Ehh, at least Wyrdeer fixes this by becoming Normal/Psychic.
For a minute I read that as "How GOOD were Statler & Waldorf ACTUALLY?"
They were pretty funny - the best at heckling
Doh ho ho ho ho!
“PU? I don’t even want to CU! Dohohohoho!”
"How good were Stantler and Wyrdeer actually? Pretty good from what I heard... Pretty good at letting people down! WOH-HO-HO-HO"
Who?
Going to be honest, Stantler and Wyrdeer have so much potential, I believe that they are physical versions of the girafarig line (for the most part anyway), and with girafarig having nasty plot and calm mind, Stantler and Wyrdeer should have Bulk Up and Swords Dance, maybe Psyshield Bash should be a Psychic Type Aqua Step because you need to use Psyshield Bash in Agile Style many times to even evolve your Stantler, and probably recover since it's antlers can be grinded into herbs and medicine. I think that these new changes would be sufficient enough for Stantler and Wyrdeer to succeed in lower tiers
Wyrdeer is a mixed attacker thogh...
A similar vein but I feel like Farigiraf should've focused on bulk more while Wyrdeer focused on speed. Farigiraf getting -10 speed and +10 in both defenses whilr Wyrdeer has less HP but is fairly fast
@@johnnyjohnson4265 that's exactly what I'm thinking
@@TheDeathmail yes but it's attack stats are the same at 105, Stantler had 10 more attack than special attack, I'm matching Wyrdeer's offenses with Stantler (+10 for both attack stats upon evolving)
@@TheDeathmailif thats the case then wouldn’t that just be better for it then? Because you may be going for the swords dance set or you could suddenly reveal yourself to be a calm mind set. Recover would be a great option for either one depending on team comp just a bit
Wyrdeer could be a perfect candidate of the "Scovillain theorem": when a Pokémon with interesting stats and typing gets outclassed by a Pokémon with the same typing and similar niche in the same generation it was introduced.
(Ok, Wyrdeer is technically still part of generation 8 but it was introduced to competitive scene in S/V)
My worst Pokemon moment will always be attempting the name every Pokemon game and putting down Wyrdeer but then completely forgetting about Stantler and getting laughed at by all my friends
I did that with Sylvally and Type: Null
Broken GSC NU Pokemon. I have been winning with this Deer, whether its Curse + LS or RestTalk, for three years now. Love Stantler.
Broken Deer
@@beeorsomething2230 Thicc deer.
Broken deer
Chopper's dad is certainly one of the Pokemon of all time
Welcome back to another episode of “how good was this horrible Pokémon who was given life in Pokémon Colosseum”
Coloseum and XD helped so many pokemon by giving them moves they otherwise couldn't get.
My best example is that shadow Spinarak recieved signal beam a 75 base power stab move with a chance to confuse.
@@jasonreed7522wouldn't consider that "helping" since Ariados is a physical attacker
@@Transgerine this was gen 3, before the physical special split, Signal Beam was physical in those games.
This is also how Belly Drum linoone sweeps the emerald elite 4 with a combination of return and physical shadow ball.
In gen 9 Ariados does get some decent moves, atleast compared to its older movepools. (Its gen 2 move pool doesn't seem viable for the gen 2 story, let alone competitive)
In gen 9 VGC eviolite stantler has somewhat of a niche as an intimidator with skill swap. He can lower the enemies attack, and then skill swap the intimidate to boost a defiant or competitive partner, of which there are quite a few viable options right now
Weirdly enough, I didn’t have to much fondness towards stantler. However Wyrdeer is now one of my favorite Pokémon.
Same here, the few small touch ups really made the Stantler base look a lot better.
Once Stantler returned as Stantler the White, I was all-in.
Eh, Stantler has always been sort of weird-niche-cool to me for lore reasons.
Pretty wyrd ;)
same, but actually became my favorite pokemon, dethroning swampert after years!!
Wyrdeer is probably my second favorite Pokemon. Lord Wyrdeer is a great mount, but I also got the sense he was genuinely loyal and friendly. The idea of a sacred deer Pokemon in a Hisui long-gone also really appealed to me. They helped humans, only to be repaid with extinction.
I think it's about time we talk about why Evolutions mean everything, or as accurately pointed out in this video, the Mightyena/Scizor Theorem depending how you look at it
I would like to note that Aaron did a VGC video featuring Eviolite Stantler as a trick room setter (if memory serves) and it did decently well. It may never have caught on, but it was a fun video to watch at least!
I fell in love with Wyrdeer almost instantly in Legends: Arceus, but then Farigiraf came along with the same typing and similar stats, outclassing it in most of its sets. I wish it was Normal/Ice or Psyshield Bash was overpowered. Anything a little more unique.
Thanks FSG! I never noticed the antlers look like eyes before but now I can't unsee it! Wow that's messed up!
I like the movies references you guys make. They all reference really damn good movies
I cannot believe that FSG hasnt got at least 1m subscribers. The channel has been doing this for years and no other channels make the same top tier content regarding pokemon viability.
What is with evolutions taking away speed from pokemon that werent that strong in the first place?
Man what a great gift on this great Saturday im so happy
Maybe an idea "How GOOD was Druddigon actually?"
It's one of my favourite dragon types, even if no one else thinks so, along with Mega Charizard X and Garchomp. Though for 120 ATK it has poor, poor speed. Its movepool does make it surprisingly good for a set-up Pokémon though. I'm not too competitively well-versed, so maybe it would be good as a set-up on a Trick Room team.
Love that chonky gargoyle iguana
I personally love this thing too. Played it a lot in my VGC Gen 6 Trickroom teams but either as Lifeorb or banded wallbreaker. Have tried it in singles too but it's hard to get it in, but if it's out under trickroom, nothing wants to switch in
Druddigon is my favourite pokemon, I just love the big guy
Heya! I was just scrolling through the comments, and boy have I got good news for you. If Druddigon DOES finally get a video made on it, you would likely have 10 minutes spent on BW RU, where it is definitively the best and most versatile Pokemon.The list of common moves would be off the charts. It's also very solid in ORAS RU, but from there it does fall off a bit...
Why do Game Freak still think giving many mixed attackers mediocre defenses and terrible speed is good balancing? Time and time again, it just makes said Pokemon bad. Make it frail and fast, or slow and bulky. NEVER frail and slow.
if only they didnt removed 20 speed when he evolved
Honestly, we are getting to the point where mixed attackers are becoming massive liabilities in general on teams.
It is a massive issue with the min max war. From a campaign perspective, it was a one-off mon likely designed to answer Morty in gen 2. Going any further than that wasn't a plan. Wyrdeer is unfortunate because while significantly better, the general number of optimized mons means that unless it has something unique going for it, nothing can keep it viable.
A way to easily buff Wyrdeer is to lower it's SpA down to 95 (still 10 points above Stantler), revert it's 72 and 75 Defenses to 62 and 65 (same as Stantler) and then the speed jumps from originally 65 to 95, the HP buff should be enough for Wyrdeer to have decent enough bulk and the gained speed helps it out a lot probably
The entire rant from Gen 4 - 7 felt so passionate yet deserved.
I was not expecting an Eyes Wide Shut reference in my fun, Pokemon battle video.
Since it can supposedly distort space, it would have been way more interesting if Wyrdeer got an ability that sets gravity - gravity isn't that strong, but it'd fit really well thematically and it being able to manipulate gravity would make some of the weird climbing you can do with it in legends arceus make more sense lmao
I wonder how viable an Intimidate/screens set would be in gens 3 and 4, even with its low defenses. Seems like it could be an interesting niche 🤔
Great Video
If we wanted to more into the reindeer/winter connection, I think it would be cool to give Stantler/Wyrdeer slush rush. The gravity discussion in the video also made me think it could be neat to give them an ability that sets gravity on switch in, and maybe some moves to take advantage of that, like blizzard and high jump kick over jump kick. Also give them horn leech. It's weird they don't get it
I think it is fitting such a bad Pokémon by Gen 4-9 standards gets Slush Rush. By competitive performance, it feels like an Ice type already.
Stantler is one of my favorite Pokemon. It was nice to see it get a solid evolution in Legends Arceus, but it's a damn shame gen 9 was broken enough to leave it floundering.
I'm suprised the video didn't have any mention LC Stantler in gen 9 because given its stats I would expect it to do well in the tier like Girafarig. To me this seems like a crucial missing part of the video.
it was probably pre-emptively banned.
There should definitely be a video on the Mightyena Theorum: Why some pokemon desperately need a evolution
Mightyena is cool, just wish it had better stats
Surprised it wasn’t mentioned that Stantler had a top 8 finish in the Japan National Championships this year by Ren Kotorii. A bulky Eviolite Trick room support mon
Big stantler fan here. Thanks for the vid!
I know any interesting way to buff Wyrdeer: buff its signature move Psybash Shield to power 80 with 100% accuracy AND make its power based on defense like body press. Also give Wyrdeer body press if it doesn’t already have that.
You could change the stats around, but I think that would be enough to make it decent. I’m thinking an assault vest set with: trailblaze, psybash shield, body press, and sucker punch.
I think it’s underexplored in VGC as it has access to Imprison, TR, Gravity and Skill Swap alongside Intmidate. I think having base 71 defenses is rly underwhelming so taking 20 pts from attack and redistributing it to its defenses will go a long way.
I'm running an eviolite skill swap stantler team with gambit, milotic, and teal ogrepon for comp/defiant boosts. It's actually fairly solid, stantlers bulk is actually pretty good and with abilities like hospitality to steal it can compete
Stantler has such a cool factor and great offensive versatility back in the day. Wyredeer is a massive upgrade but also feels like one that came a bit too late. It’s outclassed by Farigiraf in VGC and singles. Intimidate stored power boosting is nice but really wishes it had something even more distinct. Banded Psyshield bash would be cool but there is such a plethora of dark types that laugh at Wyredeer. Here’s hoping it gets something unique in the upcoming dlc to distinguish it from Farigiraf.
I think Wyrdeer being bad distinguishes it from Farigiraf, because Farigiraf is a Pokémon you want on your team on trick room and you never want to use Wyrdeer unless it was the only trick room setter and there is a limited dex. This is akin to seeing Avalugg and Arcanine in the higher tiers: it may mean something, but often it just means the dex is not expanded for that generation.
I wish they changed Stantler's evolution method slightly, cuz there's NO way to evolve it without Home. I wish they change it to be like Primeapes where it learns Psyshield Bash at 32, then has to use the move 20 times to evolve. (Instead of using Agile Style and the move 20 times)
To this day I have no freaking idea why Stantler learns so many psychic moves? Does it think it's a psychic type or something?
There are plenty of mons that feel psychic, but aren't, golduck anyone? Noctowl?
@@et34t34fdfpolitoad...
Gen 2 and 3 Stantler seem really cool! I might use it for my next playthrough of Silver 👀
I’ve had some success in VGC with eviolite trick room Stantler. Wasn’t excellent or anything (a bit passive) but a solid trick room setter.
I had it in a Gen 9 Draft league once and it actually put in some work, by being used as a Trick Room Setter for my Alolan Marowak. With Eviolite its bulk was pretty nice and helped me in some matches
Sap sipper would be amazing on different pokemon. I remember in ORAS hoping Mega Swampert would have Sap sipper. That probably thought it was overpowered
FINALLY, I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS SINCE WYRDEER WAS RELEASED
“Stantler’s got a great design.”
I think that’s the only time I’ve ever heard that sentence….
"Antler so powerful it's capable of distorting space" Proceed to ram into the tree and disappear
I would give stantler/wyrdeer a special version of huge power, kind of like feline prowess in radical red.
BKC is the goat
I started to appriciate Stantler upon replaying Pokemon Colosseum. I honestly think it's one of the best Pokemon in the game. It's stats aren't bad (especially compared to everything else in the game), has a decent movepool, has Intimidate, can learn Calm Mind at a decent level (as the TM is not in the game), can get dual screens, Normal is a pretty good type defensively, and STAB Return isn't bad.
It's pretty much a factor into ever Colosseum team I make going forward.
Still waiting on my favorite Pokémon’s remake Samurott!
Stantler's attack animation goes HARD
I love how the holidays are a month away and Kellen could've kept this as the Christmas special but chose to do Stantler now. Are there any Ice types left? I forget if he did Glaceon or not.
Maybe a delibird remake with iron bundle
One of the most necessary evolutions of all pokemon...and it STILL wasnt good enough.
I think it must be super unfortunate for a gen 2 normal type to get a normal/psychic evolution only to be outclassded by another gen 2 normal type's normal/psychic evolution. Farigiraf while not crazy in singles is a solid mon for doubles thanks it its movepool
Maybe a series about how good a certain move was? Like which pokemon really benefitted from using the move and how the move changed (if it changed). Like how knock off got buffed in gen 6
Couple of suggestions, tera types should be covered in the visuals, and maybe y'all could talk about zu in gen 9 sections.
I loved a gimmick Thunder Wave, Confuse Ray and Stomp set. Super luck based, but so fun when it works
They also removed Punishment from the game, so it was impossible to stop boosters.
Buff ideas:
Increase wyrdeers speed back to 85 (why did it get slower?)
Raise Psyshield Bash power into 90
New signature ability replacing frisk: Audacious - If the pokemon's stat is boosted, it's speed is raised by one stage.
Give it more set up moves to further synergize with the ability like Swords dance, Nasty Plot, Bulk up, Work up and such.
And attacking moves with stat boosting secondary effects, maybe the lake trio's Mystical Power, or Ancient power if you're feeling lucky.
Wyrdee BST being 545 is too high, you can lower it's defense stats back to 62 and 65 like Stantler to compensate, swapping Frisk withFur Coat works, Psyshield Bash should be either a psychic double edge or a psychic Aqua step, give Wyrdeer bulk up, recover and swords dance and bam it's amazing now
@@andrewzorpas234 No its not too high lol, its the same as Togekiss. Arcanane, Volcarona, Florges, Kingambit, Gholdengo, and the Ursalunas surpasses it. Might be a few more non-legendaries i missed but it aint 600 so like who cares? Idk why are people so anal about this.
I would love to see stantler get an ability that boosts its horn attacks, like megahorn and horn leech.
If Stantler received its new evolution in an earlier generation then there is a possibility the deer Pokémon might’ve done better in the competitive scene. But by the time Stantler received its new evolution, it was much too late for Stantler to be considered for competition teams to use as there were better choices to use. Perhaps if Stantler received a new regional form with a brand new evolution, then Stantler could actually become better in the competitive scene in the same way the Farfetch’d family did with the new regional form and evolution.
Hey kellen, you think for future video with gen 9 you could pit popular tera types is the corner? love your videos btw :)
Every couple weeks I check this channel in hopes my favorite pokemon Bronzong got covered. Sadly I shall wait longer
Maybe one of the big vids for next year? Cause it’s definitely going to be longer than 40 minutes.
Used to use a Stantler on a Gen6 doubles team actually, it’s the only Pokémon with access to Intimidate and Skill Swap. Milotic running Competitive and facing a Landy T gave +4 after the first turn
Have you considered a "how great was >random move< anyway?" how slash and wrap used to be top tier moves, while hyper beam isn't ever used anymore could be cool to see
Never thought I’d see references to Eyes Wide Shut of all things in this video.
Funny, I had a mandella effect where I always saw Stantler as a psychic. I think one of the early movies showing off it doing a call then making a sound from it's horns caused that,
Still waiting for “How Good was Amoonguss Actually…”
That would be a 2hr movie.
Bummed there wasn’t mention of that week gen 9 eviolite stantler in vgc had a neat set
With the recent adjustments to early gen lower tiers (notably GSC NU/PU and Advanced UU) I really hope it is allowed in Gen 3 NU.
It will probably be fine too, balanced by the other drops.
Stantler is one if my favorites since it showed up in Gen 2.
I love deer in real life and Stantler has always held a special place in my heart
I'm a huge Johtoddler so I adore evolutions for Gen II Pokemon!
Honestly, im kinda surprised it isnt a bit better in doubles in gen 9, its the only trick room pokemon with intimidate
I'm glad it finally got an evolution
Totally forgot it was a gen 2 pokemon damn!
I love this Pokémon
Kind of surprised you didn't talk about eviolite stantler in LC
The only time I used Stantler was on some doubles format alongside Milotic as at the time (gen 6) Stantler was the only Pokémon with Intimidate and Skill Swap. The idea is you can quickly get multiple Competitive boosts like that or guarantee one if your opponent doesn't lead with Intimidate. It was a fun gimmick but I doubt it would be anywhere near decent in any half serious setting.
If Wyrdeer kept Stantler's base speed, it might have been able to do something in the lower tiers.
Stantler doesn’t get Double Edge because Double Edge isn’t a TM in Gen 2. This is why Porygon2 gets it. You could teach Double Edge to Porygon in RBY, transfer it, and evolve it in GSC.
I’m honestly surprised nobody tried using Wyrdeer in VGC. Think about it, a Trick Room setter with Intimidate.
And 70 in both defenses in a meta with urshifu, chien pao, kingambit, chi-yu, and ogerpon, and competition in Cresselia, farigiraf, indeedee, and hatterene
Posted right at the end of deer season
"Uhh.... Sap Sipper." That was priceless 😂😂😂😂😂
Ouch! I am a bit surprised Stantler never received the illusion ability.
The case of Wyrdeer is a fantastic example of just how bad power creep in pokemon has gotten. Honestly, at this rate I don't see changes to the pokemon making a difference. It will be obsolete again after a while and I think the bigger issue is that power creep
How do you balance over 1000 Pokémon? I can perhaps suggest more tier types under PU to lower the number of Untiered.
@@Labyrinth6000I'm not saying it's easy and that's shown by all the other long running franchises with this issue, but I do think game freak themselves could be doing more to increase the viability of a lot more pokemon. More tiers doesn't actually solve the issue at hand in my mind because it hasn't up until this point, and eventually we'll end up with so many tiers that actually playing the game will become a repetitive nightmare
Thanksgiving ends and we immediately talk about the reindeer pokemon
Maybe it will get something good with the new set of moves that have been teased for the next DLC.
Wish Gravity had more use, it’s such a neat move
Wrydeers statline is so sad to me, it looks like it was designed to be an ADV mon before the physical/special split rip.
Get well soon mate
We now return to Stantler and Wyrdeer’s Magical Journey Through Untiered Heck!
As of 26th November:
Gen 2 - NU
Gen 3 - UU
Gen 4 - ZU/SU
Gen 5 - IU (Imaginary Used, 8U, below SU and ZU, which are both 6th and 7th tier of competitive Pokemon)
Gen 6 - SU (7th tier)
Gen 7 - IU (untiered in Imaginary Used)
Gen 8 - Illegal (thankfully for it)
Gen 9 - ZU (Wyrdeer) SU (Stantler)
I like when you can tell bkc wrote the video
Seismitoad next maybe?
Underrated pokemon
Underrated Swift Swimmer.