Ribbon Microphone DIY RCA 44 - Episode ONE
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- čas přidán 10. 03. 2021
- How to make a DIY microphone. I used wood, aluminum foil, CA glue and magnets. It's based on the classic RCA 44 ribbon mic. ➤Please subscribe to my channel!! goo.gl/p1xmZJ
By request, some affiliate links to some items to make your own ribbon mic:
🧲Magnets: amzn.to/2Fn658s Be careful, they are fragile!
🔩Neutrik Male Connector: amzn.to/2DUpnBr
🪒Ribbon foil: amzn.to/2LCErHP Select the thickest, heaviest sheets from the pad for ribbon use
🔧Tools: amzn.to/3RTsCMw Xacto amzn.to/2PBobZi
🎄Wood Veneer, Single Ply: amzn.to/3RBWhse Took about 3 5x8 sheets of walnut
🖨Cricut Maker: amzn.to/4atwjQr
Ribbon mic and mixer:
🎙 amzn.to/41xQKre
🎛 amzn.to/31mii4H 👈This is the one I used to narrate the video.
(👆I make a small commission when you purchase)
In the video I do the following: build the ribbon motor body, glue up the magnets, add mounting brackets, install a ribbon element, check ribbon resonance, make mic baffles, install microphone transformer and test the microphone by narrating the video with it! Any questions or comments, please feel free! Thanks for watching!
To begin, I started by mocking up the design in photoshop. I devised measurements by how thick and long I wanted the ribbon to be. After designing the parts, I cut the parts out of paper(with the cricut), to be sure the sizes would fit the magnets properly. Satisfied that it would fit together, I began cutting the parts out of single ply walnut veneer. I used the cricut maker for this part as well. I didn't show much of the cricut cutting footage, because I suspect most people would skip right past it. If there's interest, I'll do a video about cutting wood with the cricut maker. In my opinion the Cricut instructions skip some important steps, and I feel their recommendations of using a high strength mat is an exercise in frustration. It took me about a year of experimenting with different materials and settings to get this quality of cuts from the cricut.
One important thing about this first cutting step: The parts are cut from 2 different sheets of veneer, each cut with the grain perpendicular to the other. That way, the parts become a stronger "plywood" after being glued up. The issue here is the parts cut from single ply with cross grain are quite delicate. Many won't come out in one piece, so you must be careful to keep the parts organized for proper glue up. I "tacked" the parts together until the motor was fully assembled, then I added CA from the sides to "wick" into the center of the structure and quickly clamped it down for 1 minute by hand. The motor chassis is rock solid and ready to be sanded into shape.
After sanding into shape, I made sure the magnet mounts were parallel to each other, and then glued in the magnets.
Then, I assembled the cross members, mounting plates and contacts. Here, parts can be glued up a bit more easily, lining the holes up is the most important thing.
After another good sanding with 150, 220, and 400 grit sandpapers, the parts are ready to be assembled.
I used a little drill bit to clean out and straighten the holes by hand(no electric drills, you'll probably make the hole to big unless you use a drill press).
After adding a copper tape strip to the mounting plates, a solid core wire is soldered in surrounding the ribbon path.
The aluminum Ribbon can now be cut with a fresh Xacto blade and fitted to the motor.
The ribbon can be sourced by finding the thickest sheets from a stack of aluminum signwriters leaf. Or you can spend the big bucks and buy the proper ribbon material from various online vendors.
Using a light box, I carefully make sure the ribbon is not touching the magnets. That's very important.
Also important is the ribbon tension. You can eyeball the tension, and as long as the ribbon isn't sagging or very tight it's probably fine. You don't want it too tight, or the bass frequency will suffer. After some experience, you'll get a good idea of how tight is too tight.
If you want, you can hook it up as I have, to a headphone output of a signal generator and check the "resonance" of the ribbon to be sure it will hit the frequencies you require. This step is really optional for a single mic, in my opinion. Just make sure it isn't too tight, nor too loose(looking saggy) and you'll be fine. Most importantly, listen to the mic. Does it have a funny sound? That might be because it's too tight or too loose. Adjust accordingly.
Don't forget to make a blast shield of some kind, Or you'll be re-ribboning your mic in short order!
Attach your transformer of choice and wire it up to an XLR. You're ready to mount it in your choice of enclosure and take the podcasting world by storm!
This is a medium to advanced level cricut maker project. - Věda a technologie
Very cool, sounds great. Now make it with hand tools, Uri Tuchman style.
This will be blowing my mind for a while…
Props on the DIY sanding block, super cute!
Thanks! It's the little things, y'know?
Very inspiring. You are a true craftsman. I just recently started working on ribbon mics. I picked up a Nady RSM-2 for next to nothing. It sounded horrible. Very low output and tinny. I figured that I could at least pull it apart and inspect it. I didn’t have to look too far to find the problem. The ribbon motor magnets are coated with cheap plating. The plating was heavily peeling on one of the magnets and was making contact with the ribbon. With nothing to lose, I removed the ribbon and cleaned the magnets as best that I could. I reinstalled the old ribbon. Of course it tore where it gets clamped on one end but it was still long enough to install. I tensioned it using a cotton swab and got it as tight as I could. Low and behold, it works and doesn’t sound too bad. I am sure it could sound even better with a new, properly tensioned ribbon. I now have a working ribbon mic for about $20.00. Can you suggest a decent transformer? Thanks
Thanks! Yes, the very cheap mics have that problem of "magnet shedding." Edcor, Cinemag and Lundahl all have suitable ribbon mic transformers. Generally, you're looking for one with a ratio of about 1:28 or just a little higher, like 1:35. You could go as high as 1:50, but it becomes a tradeoff for frequency response. Before upgrading the transformer, I'd buy some ribbon material and learn how to re-ribbon the mic. You can find 2.5micron or 1.8micron foils which will likely be better than whats currently in the mic. Some places online sell the ribbon, ribbon crimper, and transformers all toghether. Re-ribbon with a fresh ribbon(not tight, just a little past sagging) and see how it sounds. If it's sounding really good, then swap the transformer.
Good luck!
@@FrankOlsonTwins Thanks for the information. The plan is to replace the ribbon before making any mods. Even in its current state, it doesn’t sound half bad. It’s bottom heavy so I did some eq-ing and it took it very well. I can imagine that a new ribbon will make it sound better. I used your bottom up light trick to check my ribbon alignment. Amazingly, it’s spot on but slightly loose. I didn’t have any extra material overhanging the clamps to adjust it. I am surprised that I got it as tight as I did. I can see ways to improve upon the design of this mic. If the edges on the clamps were smooth, there would be less of a change cutting the ribbon when tightening them. That’s how I cut on my first installation attempt. Overall, I am pleased with my investment of time only on this mic. Thanks again!
Yeah, before you re-ribbon, you could use some 600 grit sandpaper and smooth all the clamp edges so it'll be much easier to shift the ribbon around. Ribbons do take eq well, you can even crank the hi end a bit to hear what's naturally lacking. If this is a long ribbon like the one in my video, they excel at bass capture. You'll likely have to roll off the low end, or you can tighten the new ribbon a bit more to pull out some of the low end. Yes, adjusting a ribbon over a light box is pretty much necessary. That's why I put it in the video, to give people a good idea about how to install and adjust the ribbon.
@@FrankOlsonTwins Excellent! Thanks for taking the time to respond to my posts! It’s greatly appreciated.
brilliant build!
Thanks!
Well done. Great ideas there. The light test is a great way to make sure the ribbon is clear of the magnets. Thanks for this.
Thanks for checking it out. Glad it was helpful!
Small pieces of thick paper on each sides of the magnets sould also work. Then removed once done.
Impressive! I can't get over how neat and precise you were with everything.
Thanks! I've made many ribbon mics at this point. Each one gets a little tidier!
@@FrankOlsonTwins I might even give one a go, keen to see how well they perform. What kind of circuit do you use it with? / What is the transformer you use?
“In fact, this entire narration was created using only this microphone”
Mic drop
Lol, Thanks! New RCA 77 clone video up today....
Very Impressive !
bro ......hats off
Thanks! I still use this micro phone regularly!
Awesome!
Thanks!
Great job Buddy! Keep Up!
Thanks Dude!!
and it looks cute to boot
Thanks!
Good job , thank you sir.good bless you
Thanks and welcome!
Nice!
Thanks!
Just wow
Thanks!
thnx
You are the best
Thanks!!
Just subscribed! I can't tell you how satisfying and cool this is to see so much ingenuity put into this! Well done!
Thanks for checking out the vid! I upgraded the transformer to extend the top end and I use this mic often. I even made a stereo version! (No video for that one yet) All the best!
@@FrankOlsonTwins so cool! Did you decide what you wanted to do with selling the plans etc. for the cricut cut outs etc?
nice work
Thanks!!
it sound so good i would'nt have guessed you recorded the narration with it. amazing work
Thanks! I was quite surprised at the sound quality too!
This is absolutely cool! I'll scan your channel to hopefully learn more about how you connected this to your mixer. I wonder how this compares to a cheap $100 USB studio mic in terms of spectrum, noise floor and dynamic range! I hope to see more of this in the future!
Thanks Timo! The mic is simply hooked directly up to a Mackie VLZ4 mic preamp/mixer. That goes into the line input of my focusrite interface. The VLZ4 Onyx preamp happens to be a pretty good match for the ribbon mic transformer. The focusrite, not so much. There's another video coming up featuring this microphone element. I'll try to get it on a few more sources. Prices are so low on microphones these days, it could be hard to beat a $100 USB mic, but ribbon mics are famous for their low-parts-count to high-performance ratio. So who knows...? Best!
This would be cool to build into a an acoustic guitar to make it an acoustic electric with a far superior sound quality than a piezoelectric. Paired with a little preamp maybe 🤔
The magnetic structure should be all metal. It increases output. Also, I doubt that it has sufficient EMI protection if the whole mic is just a block of wood. The point of the metal structure is to provide both a sturdy build and a complete electrical shield around the transformer and ribbon element. Depends on the environment of course.
I'm not exactly disagreeing with you, as an all metal mic would be ideal for the reasons you mentioned. However, the proof is in the pudding: czcams.com/video/XGgYczOghzg/video.html Starting at 34 seconds and czcams.com/video/HOuL5glv8pA/video.html at 8 minutes, recorded in several different locations- including a professional studio with no level or interference issues. The copper humbucking loop seems to be sufficient. One note: the transformer has upgraded since this first video with a MuMetal encased cinemag transformer. The two videos I posted above feature this upgraded transformer.
Thanks for checking it out!
Cool, I wonder if it sounds okay... WAIT WHAT!?
You say it's made of wood, but it's about 50% super glue!
(Joke, I've been following. Looks and sounds amazing :) )
Haha, not far from the truth! In fact, I had considered using 2 ply veneer of the same thickness, but I didn't want the weaker "veneer glue" between the plies. This way it's still more wood than glue, even if it's just 51% 😉
Thanks for watching!
Great to see part one, can’t wait to see the rest! Why did you have to check the ribbon with a light?
Thanks! Good question, checking the ribbon, specifically the ribbon gap is easiest against some type of light box. It ensures the ribbon isn't touching the magnets, and that there's nothing impeding the ribbon movement. A light box isn't strictly necessary, but it definitely speeds things up a bit...
Awesome!
Couple of questions
* When you are 'testing for resonance' - are you just seeing if the foil moves when you put the sine wave through?
* What amplitude are you using for your sine wave there? Are you just using straight out of a signal generator?
* How do you know if the foil is the right tension? Is it the resonance test? What would make you loosen/tighten it?
Thank you for sharing this awesome project!
Thanks!
1. Basically yes, making sure it can easily resonate at a certain frequency.
2. (a) Amplitude is at headphone level. (b) It's generated in my DAW, and taken from the headphone ouput.
3. Generally, it's a complex task to get it perfectly tensioned. But the truth is, as long as it's not too loose(floppy, sagging). The opposite would be too tight, resulting in bass frequency cutoff and sometimes weird ribbon resonances. With practice, you can get a good idea of whether the ribbon is tensioned too loose or tight visually. The resonance test gives a good idea of whether your ribbon is hitting those low notes. You still have to double check the audio to make sure it's picking up everything.
Good luck!
@@FrankOlsonTwins I suspect this isn't a project I'm getting to any time soon, but has been on my backburner project "wish list" for quite a while. Thanks again!
Hi! Awesome video! Do you also have the plans / CAD files available? :)
Nice but you need a hot airgun.
Thanks, and I agree!
This is amazing! I recently built my own ribbon mics (2, for Blumlein, spaced etc.) but I have some problems with noise until today. Do you have any thoughts on that?..I used also wood for the base, an edcor transformer (around 50 bugs) and also did the wire loop around the Ribbonmotor.
So why in particular did you stick the copper tape to the little pieces, which hold the ribbon?..I should try this as well..
What very interesting for me was tuning. Never seen that before in DIY-projects.
When you checked the motor against the light, you checked the ribbon to not touch the magnet right?.or was this for something else?
Greetings and appreciation from germany!
Hey Nils! Thanks for checking out the vid! Regarding the noise issue you're facing... Is your wire loop connected to the primary of the edcor transformer. It goes against logic, but it should be connected to primary, not ground. Also, is your transformer shielded with a Mu-Metal can? It's the best way to rule out interference. They are for sale on ebay or from Cinemag.
I went back and forth about the copper tape on the hold downs. I felt that the extra bit of conductivity was worth the effort. Also, the tape adds more pressure in the center of the tabs. Better safe than sorry!
Yes, I check the motor against the light to make sure the ribbon isn't touching the magnets. Many times I just keep the light on while installing the ribbon. It's very difficult to do without some type of light behind the motor.
One last note, regarding the tuning: I used a signal generator in my DAW and then ran that through the headphone output. I wired up a connector for the motor directly with no transformer. At about 50% volume it generates signal on the ribbon. Using that you can see if your ribbon is too tight(it won't vibrate freely if it is too tight).
All the best!
this is so cool!! do you end up making the other parts to cover it / mic body?
Is this essentially the same as a ribbon tweeter- the only difference being the source input/output being different? I’ve looked into DIY ribbon stuff recently and it surprised me how similar your mic and others tweeters have been built. This looks like a great project!
Thanks for checking out the vid! Yes, This is very similar to a ribbon tweeter, however I think a tweeter would have a wider gap and ribbon. Also, I have to imagine the tweeter foil would be a little thicker... If you build one, let me know!
where did you get the ribbon from?
Nice job! I have 44BX and 77DX mics and have been intimidated about doing ribbon work. Yours is the only video I found that even explains the wiring. Nice output frequency response.
Do you have any templates for the motor's frame?
Howard
Hey Howard, thanks for checking out the vid! Yeah, the ribbons are probably the most time consuming, critical component of ribbon mic building. It takes a few hours to learn how to handle them, and even breathe around them. Do your 44 and 77 show signs of needing new ribbons?
I haven't yet shared the templates, I was thinking of putting them up on eBay as a complete project file but have been unsure of what the general interest is.
How long have you had your RCA mics?
I knew the last line was coming! Cool build, what's the other side of the transformer connected to? A preamp?
Haha thanks! I couldn't very well make a ribbon mic and narrate with something else! Yeah, I wired up the secondary side of the transformer to a regular XLR plug, which plugs into the little mic preamp/mixer you see in the last desk shot.
Best!
Perchance are you willing to share the blueprints? Thinking it would be a fun project with which to make use of a friends laser cutter.
Very nice work! I've been working on a ribbon mic project using a PCB as the frame and having the transformer and Phantom powered active electronics on the same PCB. My main issue is that I haven't found a good source for the ribbon. Do you have a recommendation?
Hey Adrian! Thanks for checking it out! Do a search for Lebow Company, they have thin aluminum foil. It's very expensive but it's the only actual supplier. Currently $25/sheet for either 2.5 or 1.8 micron. I'm pretty sure at least one of the big microphone manufacturers use imitation silver leaf, but they weigh the sheets and check the thickness against a light. Heavier sheets being the better ones. Some even weigh the ribbon itself. I started weighing sheets but ran out of patience, so I bought some. Best of luck. Let me know how your project turns out, PCB frame sounds clever!
@@FrankOlsonTwinsThanks I'll look them up. I did try imitation silver leaf and got good sound, but if you cough near it you rip your ribbon! I think the leaf is 0.6 micron. Handling it is an exercise in breath holding! Once I get new ribbon I'll pull together my video and schematics and post...
The beauty of using silver leaf is that once you get really good at cutting and mounting those ribbons, the thicker stuff(2.5u, 1.8u) is a walk in the park. It's about 3x thicker, very noticeable when handling. Once I started sorting through my sheets over a light box, it became easier to find the thicker sheets, and see which sections were already too thin or pin-holed(more than half the sheets, btw!) I definitely have learned "how to breathe" when installing ribbons. I also highly recommend making a ribbon crimper if you haven't already. It changes the game!
This is really cool! How did you perform the sine wave test?
I used a Sine wave generator in my DAW and hooked it up directly to my headphone output. Starting with very low volume, you can carefully check the response to different frequencies.
Nice video. When you are running the 1 KHz test signal through the ribbon are you making adjustments to the ribbon? If so, what are you adjusting it for? Tension?
Yes, correct. But really, I'm testing between 10hz and 200hz.
Where can I buy the transformers for this mic and did you use the phantom power from the mixer to power the mic or straight into mic channel?
No phantom necessary! The transformer is a 1:35(or 1:28) step up ribbon transformer, you can find them online by cinemag or lundahl, or others
How strong do the magnets need to be? I was also wondering if a larger ribbon was used, could it pick up faint sounds? I would like to build a custom mic for making ASMR videos.
The magnets should be as strong as you can get. N42 is a good starting point. N52 is great if you can get them. You could try a longer ribbon, but 2" seems to be the most practical. For really sensitive mics you can try to use signwriter's leaf for the ribbon, but it's very difficult to cut and install. It's about .6 microns thick and will pickup very small sounds nearby. 1.8 microns it the standard and it works pretty well on nearby sources.
@@FrankOlsonTwins,
Thank you for replying so quickly.
I was thinking about using some real old technology to help amplify sounds. A big sound catcher (5 gallon pail possibly)
I am a novice at electronics, but your video was very clear and concise. I also read lots of the other comments and found you to be a human Encyclopedia of knowledge.
Thanks! I've experimented with sound catchers.. they do work, but a 5 gallon bucket will introduce "reflections" into the signal. You could try a wide, shallow salad bowl and mount the mic element somewhere in front of it(think satellite dish). Good luck!
Could you please explain how you are running the sine wave through the ribbon? Could I use an old aux cable or headphone cable to hook it directly to my laptop? Or can I just play it aloud without it hooked up via a cable and it should also resonate the same way? This is my first audio project, so I appreciate the help.
Hmm this just showed up in my notifications, sorry for the late reply!
Make a headphone cable and run it directly from your laptop to both sides of the ribbon. Start with the lowest volume and increase as necessary.
Another way would be to complete up the microphone as normal, and record some heavy finger taps on the motor. Check against a frequency analyzer(most eq plugins show this) and be sure it's going down to 20 hz. If not, reduce the tension on the ribbon. Good luck!
Hi. Thank you for all. Which transformer did you use
The transformer is a b-stock one, removed from a cascade microphone. Basically, any 1:37 (a little higher or lower is fine, some are 1:28 for example) ratio step up transformer will work. Edcor, Lundahl and Cinemag all make new ones. Maybe Sowter too? If you shop online, just look up "Ribbon Microphone Transfomer" and you'll get lots of options.
Good luck!
Great work! I am also building one. To check the tape, is the signal sent from the linear output, or through a transformer with which the microphone will work?
No transformer, directly from a low powered headphone jack works
Incredible video! Thank you! I have read that the RCA 44 is either 13 corrugations per inch or 19 corrugations per inch. What do you say? And can you give us the pitch and diameter of your corrugation machine's gears? That is a really fine looking machine! Thank you!
Thanks! I bet the RCA crimper corrugates approx 10-14 corrugations per inch. You can actually count it if you look up a clear picture of the actual RCA (or AEA) corrugator. I think that machine uses 2" gears at 32 pitch. My crimper uses 1" gears at about 48 pitch. I'm crimping around 15 corrugations per inch, but after installation/stretching, it's closer to 12 or 13. Thanks for watching!
Which transformer is used in this
This is a cascade 1:36 step up trafo. I have a few extras. If you want, I'll put up a reverb listing
can larger magnets be used? 100x10x10mm Will the performance be good?
Good question! I wondered the same thing when I started making microphones. After some reading, it seems that a single ribbon which far exceeds 60mm is subject to poor resonant performance- that is to say, the ribbon will resonate at certain frequencies and in some cases the actual sound of the aluminum material might become apparent. This also happens when a ribbon is too wide, too loose or too tight. I think it's worth trying though, to see exactly how a ribbon would respond at that length. Who knows, it might sound really great at low volumes...
8:10 - at what Vpp?
What's the ribon and magnet types?
The ribbon is 2.5 micron aluminum foil. The magnets are .125 x .25 x 2".
good day friend!
excellent video inspire me
I wanted to ask if it is possible to leave the microphone like this without a transformer and connect it to an audio interface
and get professional audio
greetings thanks for the video!
Hello!
That's a good question! You could try, but I don't think the volume would be loud enough to hear it above the preamp noise. Perhaps it might work if you were recording really loud drums....
One thing the transformer does is "step up" the output of the ribbon by about 30x. That's because the ratio of the transformer is about 1:30.
The other thing the transformer does is to match the impedance between the ribbon and the preamp(your interface, for example). The ribbon alone has a very small impedance- less than 10 ohms. With the transformer, it's somewhere between 50-250 ohms. That's enough to make a decent impedance "match" between the mic and preamp.
I hope this helps!
@@FrankOlsonTwins
to very well! Thank you I have doubt if the Transformer has to be specific? type as impedance or audio transformer? or can you with an energy transformer!? thank you very much for everything friend you are big! If my English is not good, it is because I am using Google Translate Greetings from Zacatecas México 🇲🇽!
Sure you could try any transformer, some will work better than others. Generally, ribbon transformers have a ratio of between 1:20 and 1:60.
No hay problema. ¡El español a veces es difícil para mí!
Very good sounding! I have a question. I want to tension my ribbon, can i also just plug it into my interface with the xlr while tensioning? And then tap the motor or something and analyze the response in my daw? I kind of don’t want to solder it to another connector for that. Also what makes your ribbon have such a nice high fq response? Thankss
Yes, that's one good method of doing it. Essentially, you'll build your entire mic(motor, transformer, XLR) as normal and tension the ribbon last. That saves you the step of hooking/unhooking which is tedious for sure.
Regarding the ribbon frequency response, a couple things come to mind. The transformer I used was actually a bit dark sounding, so I always account for that by boosting 3db-6db of treble on whatever mic preamp I'm using. When I upgrade the transfomer, i won't have to boost the highs.
Also, this is a long ribbon with a skinny waist(middle part of the ribbon). That skinny waist is where the high frequency pickup occurs. There's a bit of science regarding how sound travels past the motor, but to sum up the concept- a long ribbon with a skinny waist will have better high frequency pickup than one with a fat middle. I believe the concept goes all the way back to Harry Olson's research with the RCA 44 microphone. I think that's another reason you see mic manufacturers making mics with "X" pattern magnets- to keep the middle as thin as possible to capture as much HF content as possible.
Thanks for watching!!
@@FrankOlsonTwins Thanks so much. I read some things about the thin waist indeed. Very interesting. Im making a 1.60 inch (40mm) long ribbon, do you think a small waist will benefit it too? I read something about smaller ribbons already picking up higher frequencies better. I don’t know if it will be overkill.
I don't think it would be overkill. I'd shoot for 1/3rd to 1/2 of the middle to be thinner. If you look at many different longer ribbon motors, that seems to be the sweet spot. I also think proximity to source can have some treble effect, but that's just an educated guess. I haven't done the same research RCA or the BBC has!
But, I would make whatever shape you want to start with and see how it sounds. It could be just fine. Depending on your magnets, transformer and your ribbon material, it might not be an issue. Most royer ribbons, for example, are about an inch and and half long, and have a wide waist. They do make a few very expensive X- patterns though. Worth trying out though!
Whatever happens, let me know!
does this require phantom power? and how did you align the polarity of the magnets? are they attracting each other or repelling?
No phantom required, the magnets are attracting each other.
@@FrankOlsonTwins super, Thank you!
Great projects! Is it possible to use those fake silver sheets used in crafts and art? i think its called aluminum leaf? or is it too thin? thanks!
Sure, you can use that aluminum leaf. Most of it is too thin to get a long lasting ribbon(approx .6 microns). If you weigh the sheets you might be able to find the thickest ones and make your ribbons from that. I've used it for many mics. If you get good at making ribbons with the aluminum leaf, you'll have no problem cutting and crimping the thicker 2 micron stuff.
@@FrankOlsonTwins thanks Frank!
I started tripping at 8 min!!!
Right??
hola! me encanta este microfono!! quiero hacer uno para mi pequeño estudio de grabacion!! solo tengo una duda!!!
de cuantos volts es el transformador q usas?
soludos desde Argentina!
No voltage- This mic is passive. The ratio is approximately 1:28
Transformer: cinemag.biz/mic_output/mic_output.php CM-9888
Also made by FAB, Lundahl, Sowter, Samar and others.
Good luck!
@@FrankOlsonTwins exelente! gracias por su ayuda !!!😄😄
What material did you used to make a ribbon?
Aluminium foil, 2.5micron thick
How thin does the ribbon have to be?
Somewhere between 1 and 4 microns. Right around 2 microns seems to be the sweet spot. You can get VERY thin ribbon material through my amazon link- approx (.8 micron) if you buy the imitation silver leaf. If you can figure out a way to sort the sheets into thickness(like over a lightbox to see which ones are thicker) you can get somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 to 2 microns. Some manufacturers do it that way. Or you can buy 1.2, 1.8, or 2.5 micron sheets on ebay. It's pricey, however. My advice is usually to buy the imitation silver leaf and practice that a dozen or more times. By the time you get your process worked out, you'll know how to properly handle the foil and re-ribbon your mic. Good luck!
What's the purpose of the transformer? Impedance matching, or?
Yes, the transformer does 2 things: Impedance matching is one thing. It bumps up the impedance to around 200 ohms. The second purpose of the transformer is to amplify the voltage/signal by about 30x. Some amplify more or less depending on the winding "ratio."
What if I had no horizontal magnets
If you can find the North and South poles of the magnets, you can still position them across from each other on either side of the ribbon to make sound. So it would be something like: SouthPole|Ribbon|Northpole OR North|Ribbon|South. To some degree, It doesn't really matter how the magnets are oriented as long as the poles are aligned with each other on either side of the ribbon. Just find the poles of the magnets and figure out a way to suspend the ribbon between north and south poles. Good luck!
hi, what is the name of the glue?
I use and prefer the super glue called Zap-a-Gap. It's made by the company Pacer Technology. I think they make a lot of super glues for different manufacturers, but I've always had good luck with Zap-a-Gap glues so I stick with those.
Damnnnnnnnnn
Can I make the folds in the ribbon by hand or by some formula manually
Very unlikely anyone could fold it by hand, however, some people gently press the foil against a comb or other ridged surface. Even running it between 2 unmounted gears by hand would be preferable.
Thankyou sir , very informative and inspiring video ,I have been trying to record my drums but the gears are way too expensive in my country , I am thinking of playing with the ribbon length, tension and width to see if I can record all the different component of my drums .Hope it works . You are very kind enough to reply so fast , thankyou sir
Thinking more about this, perhaps you could try folding carefully between 2 thick sheets of paper(accordion style) . The folds should be pretty small, less than 4 mm each. Just don't crease it too tight. It might work!
@@FrankOlsonTwins thank you sir ,I will try it out
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
If I can't get the transformer in my country, what kind of transformer can I use?
anything between the ratio of 1:25 to 1:55
how much total cost?
About $100 including shipping for each item
@@FrankOlsonTwins what is The transformation ratio? 1:28 to 1:40. is this? pls, can you teardown it and explain its step-up transformer winding?
hi , can you tell me plaese , can i use another transformer ? For example Neutrik NTE10/3 ?
Hello,
I've tried similar transformers (1:10 mic step up transformers). Techinically, it will work...but it won't be loud enough. The ribbon really needs about 3x more voltage step up than that. Most ribbon mic transformers are in the 1:30 to 1:55 step up range. Without it, you rely completely on your mic preamp to finish amplifying the voltage. Without the extra step up voltage, you end up with a preamp that is working too hard and a very noisy signal.
@@FrankOlsonTwins thanks for your reply . maybe L frank audio hts 30 would be better? ( no others )
No, that's an output transformer. You need a very small mic transformer, such as this:
amzn.to/3JjVXu3
@@FrankOlsonTwins thanks for explaining. Unfortunately, it is impossible to order any of the ones presented in the video or the link in your previous message. If I reduce the size of the tape, maybe neutrik will fit?
What magnets are those? Can I get the dimensions?
Sure! These magnets are 2 inches long, 1/4" wide and 1/8" deep.
2" x .25" x .125" Magnetized through the thickness(depth).
@@FrankOlsonTwins Thanks !!!!
Hi Frank, just wondering if you could explain the motor wiring? I recently upgraded (so I thought) the transformer on an old Nady RSM 2. The transformer output wiring was a no-brainer. The replacement transformer came with a schematic so I was able to pin out the output. I know the ribbon motor produces an AC signal that’s boosted by the transformer. Is the motor polarity an issue? If so, would the mic end up being 180 degrees out of phase? I was successful as the mic works but there was not a huge change with the new transformer that I installed. Maybe I am expecting too much.The wires on the new transformer input matched the colors on the motor so that’s how I wired it. What would be the effect if I have the transformer input wiring reversed? Does the transformer care? Thanks and all the best. Jesse
Hey Jesse!
Generally speaking, for ribbon motors made of metal(Royer, Nady, most others) I connect the *hot* wire from the primary side of the transformer to the "floating" or, non-grounded end of the ribbon.
The *cold* wire of the transformer primary gets connected to the grounded side of the ribbon(the part that is connected directly to the metal motor chassis).
However, depending on how the transformer is wired, it might not make much of a difference. If the primary side of the transformer is not grounded(it likely isn't) then, as you noted, it may not make any more difference than just phase polarity. If the secondary is grounded to the shield(it might be), then you want to keep them connected in respect to each other.
The secondary side of the transformer should then be connected normally: *hot* to pin 2, *cold* to pin 3.
If that's out of phase, it's no problem to swap the secondary side of the transformer, pins 2 and 3.
I think worst case scenario(if the primaries are mixed up) would be any of the following: Buzzing/Ground loop noise from the ribbon, low or bad output, or reversed phase polarity. However, in most cases I think you wouldn't notice a difference. The technology is basically ancient, and very forgiving.
One thing to keep in mind- the biggest difference between a high quality transformer(cinemag, jensen, lundahl) is the high end response of the ribbon. In fact, the cheaper transformers may even be louder overall, but they will tend to be muddier sounding. The Shinhom(?) that I used in the video was replaced by a better cinemag, which was slightly quieter, but more balanced over the entire spectrum.
I hope this helps!
@@FrankOlsonTwins Hi Frank, Thanks for the reply and explanation. I kind of understand how it works. I realize that you wouldn’t want to ground the motor outputs as it would kill the motor output voltage. The input for this particular transformer (Geistnote 1:36) has two wires while the output has three. I understand that. The part I am trying wrap my head around is the motor polarity and why it’s important. The schematic that I received with the transformer shows the input wires hi and lo instead of positive and negative. Being they are basically inducing voltage using a coil, you would not think that it would matter. Unless it’s how the coil is wound? Maybe I am overthinking it. Transformers are pretty stupid. I am going to retest my mic and see if the output is higher on the backside and also use a mic preamp that has phase invert switch. Frank, many thanks for sharing your knowledge! Jesse
You have it covered pretty much. The hi and lo likely won't dramatically change the output, aside from polarity. If you hooked it up via the schematic they sent, I'm sure it's working at maximum efficiency. However, if you haven't swapped the original heavy ribbon(factory installs 4micron to 6micron thickness), there's a chance that it could be soaking up some of the high end frequency response of the mic. I swapped my fathead and nady ribbons for 2.5u and 1.8u foils, and the high end response is much better. You could also send a little question and picture of the finished installation to Geistnote, he probably has swapped many transformers in the Nadys. He'd know for certain if the colors match up. All the best!
@@FrankOlsonTwins Thank you. I did replace the stock ribbon with a 2.5 micron. I also made one from the Amazon foil you suggested. Man, that stuff is thin! Not sure how thin but it seems thinner that 2.5u that I purchased from Geistnote. I actually had a chance to do some further testing today. There is a slight difference in sound between the front and rear of the mic. Flipping the phase invert button on my mic preamp definitely took something away so I am certain that it’s wired correctly. I am going to spend some time to learn more about those motors. Your videos really inspired me and gave me confidence to work on these mics. Thanks again.
Does this transformer mean that is a 48V mic ? Can it works without transformer ?
Hello. No, this is a passive microphone. The transformer steps the voltage up about 30x, but it doesn't require phantom power to work. Technically, 48v shouldn't hurt the mic, but hot patching the mic with phantom power might.
@@FrankOlsonTwins Hi ! Thank you for this explanation. I heard that 48v burns ribbon mics, I understand now
@@FrankOlsonTwins Can you say why aluminium is better than copper in this case ? (ribbon)
I don't think copper foil is strong enough to withstand repeated use. For some reason, aluminium foil lasts for years(sometimes decades) if properly installed and handled. The foil used for these ribbons is about 1 or 2 microns thick.
I'm trying to make a stereo mic from 2 mono mics wired into one single stereo signal, plugged to a Zoom H8 recorder. The best I had is a mix of both mics signals, converted into a single stereo signal, where Right and Left are the same. Do you have any idea of what's the problem ? I use 2 passive mics (not powered), wired to a 3-pins XLR connector. I heard that XLR can't bring a true stereo signal. Do I have to use TRS 6.35mm jack connector ? This thing makes me crazy ^^
Glue type?
Mostly Zap-a-Gap medium CA and Loc-tite medium CA. My preference being the Zap-a-Gap(been using it for years), but the Loc-tite worked just fine. Most important is that the bottle hasn't been opened for a long period of time(several months or longer). If so, it'll get slimy and won't cure...just some CA facts for you, in case you didn't already know!
@@FrankOlsonTwins Thanks Frank!!!
you bet!
Деревянный магнитопровод, куда катится мир.
Назад к корням!